Hockey League.
**
Reached agreement in principle with left wing Alexander Cherbayev.
Tampa Bay Lightning
1-800-881-2639
At least two investor groups are poised to build a sports arena in
downtown Tampa if the delay-plagued company that holds a lease from the
Tampa Bay Lightning bows out. Tampa Coliseum Inc. has a lease with the
National Hockey League team to develop an entertainment and sports arena
next to Tampa Stadium, but has been unable to raise enough money for the
project.
Sent left winger Mike Hartman to the New York Rangers for center Randy
Gilhen.
Sent defenseman Peter Taglianetti to Pittsburgh for a third-round 1993
draft choice.
Sent defenseman Rob Ramage to the Montreal Canadiens for minor league
defensemen Eric Charron and Alain Cote and future considerations.
**
Manon Rheaume's first starting appearance in goal for the Atlanta
Knights was impressive enough for her coach to say she has a chance to be
a backup goalie for another minor league team next season. Rheaume, the
first female to play professional hockey, stopped 25 shots and gave up six
goals against the Cincinnati Cyclones on Saturday night, April 10. After
the game, her coach, Gene Ubriaco, said Rheaume performed well enough to
compete for the No. 2 goalie spot with the Louisville IceHawks of the East
Coast Hockey League next season. The Knights and the IceHawks are minor
league clubs of the Tampa Bay Lightning.
**
As their first season comes to a close, there are rumors swirling that
the Tampa Bay Lightning just might become the Atlanta Lightning.  Or the
Minnesota Lightning.  But they are just rumors, according to Lightning
general manager Phil Esposito.  ESPN reported on Sunday, April 11, that
the Lightning, who have been playing in 10,400-seat Expo Hall, are
exploring opportunities to move to either Atlanta or Minneapolis.  But
Esposito said there was no truth to the report.  "We were disappointed
with ESPN's irresponsible comment," Esposito said.  "There is just no
substance to the rumor." Rumors have been swirling for the past two years
regarding a move by Tampa Bay, which is presently discussing plans to
build a new arena.
Toronto Maple Leafs
**
Defenseman Matt Martin, who helped Maine win the 1993 NCAA hockey
championship, gave up his final year of eligibility and signed a contract
with the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Vancouver Canucks
The Vancouver Canucks have cleared the last hurdle in their effort
to build a new stadium. Vancouver council has given the green light for
the 100 million dollar complex. It will seat 20 thousand people and will
have an adjoining office tower. It will be built between the viaducts near
B.C. Place in Vancouver. Site preparation will begin this summer, with a
completion date of Fall 1995.
Traded left winger Robert Kron and a third-round draft pick to Hartford
for left winger Murray Craven and a fifth-round draft pick.
Obtained defenseman Dan Ratushny from Winnipeg for a ninth-round draft
pick.
**
Signed right wing Brian Loney to a multi-year contract and assigned him
to Hamilton of American Hockey League (AHL).
Washington Capitals
(301) 808-CAPS
Traded goaltender Jim Hrivnak and future considerations to Winnipeg for
goaltender Rick Tabaracci.
Winnipeg Jets
Winnipeg Jets have been allowed economic assistance in order to
keep them in the Smythe division as a result of expansion.
Sent defenseman Mark Osiecki to Minnesota for ninth- and 10th-round
draft picks in 1993.
Sent goaltender Rick Tabaracci to Washington for Jim Hrivnak and future
considerations.
Sent defenseman Dan Ratushny to Vancouver for a ninth-round draft pick.
Winnipeg's Teemu Selanne broke the NHL's rookie points record. The Jets
rookie tied the record of 109 points, set by Peter Stastny with Quebec
(1980-81), with a goal, his 66th of the season, and moved ahead on an
assist in a 5-4 loss to Toronto.
**
The Fort Wayne Komets said they have been told by Winnipeg that the Jets
will keep a minor league affiliation with Moncton of the American Hockey
League. There have been reports the Jets would move players from Moncton
to Fort Wayne next season.
-----
- Expansion news:
The National Hockey League announced that the expansion Anaheim and
South Florida franchises will join the league for the 1993- 1994 season.
Disney and National Hockey League officials announced Monday,
March 1, that the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, Disney's expansion team, will
take to the ice next fall. Michael Eisner, chairman and chief executive
officer of the Walt Disney Co., said the Mighty Ducks will play at the
Pond, the new Anaheim sports arena, near Disney's flagship theme park. The
arena is under construction and will be completed in June. The Pond seats
17,350. The team still must meet the league's requirement that it sell at
least 10,000 season tickets for the final grant of NHL membership.
Anaheim named Jack Ferreira general manager and Pierre Gauthier
assistant general manager.
**
Veteran NHL scout Al Godfrey has been hired as the Midwest regional
scout for the Anaheim Mighty Ducks.
Philadelphia Flyers' senior vice president Bobby Clarke was named
Monday, March 1, to the post of general manager for Miami's NHL expansion
team. Franchise owner H. Wayne Huizenga made the announcement at the Miami
Arena, three months after being awarded a franchise. Huizenga said he
plans to have a team on the ice in time for the beginning of the NHL
season in October.
-----
- Realignment:
Eastern Conference
Atlantic Division
Washington Capitals, New Jersey Devils, New York Islanders, New York
Rangers, Philadelphia Flyers, South Florida, Tampa Bay Lightning
Northeast Division
Boston Bruins, Buffalo Sabres, Hartford Whalers, Montreal Canadiens,
Ottawa Senators, Pittsburgh Penguins, Quebec Nordiques
Western Conference
Central Division
Chicago Blackhawks, Dallas Stars, Detroit Red Wings, St. Louis Blues,
Toronto Maple Leafs, Winnipeg Jets
Pacific Division
Anaheim Mighty Ducks, Calgary Flames, Edmonton Oilers, Los Angeles Kings,
San Jose Sharks, Vancouver Canucks
Schedule: Eastern Conference teams will play five games against each of
six divisional opponents (30); four games against each of the seven teams
in the conference's other division (28) and two games against each of the
12 Western Conference members (24).
Western Conference teams will play six games against each of five
divisional opponents (30); four games against each of the six teams in the
conference's other division (24) and two games against each of the 14
Eastern Conference clubs (28).
Playoffs: The system will be conference-based, with the No. 1 team
meeting the No. 8 team in the first round, No. 2 vs. No. 7, No. 3 vs. No.
6 and No. 4 vs. No. 5. Matchups will be based on overall points with the
four division champions being placed in the first- or second-place seeds
in each conference and being assured of home-ice in the first two playoff
rounds. All series will be best of seven (2-2-1-1-1 rotation) except
matchups between Central and Pacific teams.  Those series will rotate 2-3-
2 to reduce travel.  In those cases, the team with the most regular-season
points will choose whether to start the series at home or away.
-----
- Draft news:
Under terms of the new expansion draft, which will be held in
June, each of the 24 existing clubs will be allowed to protect one
goaltender, five defensemen and nine forwards. The most recent expansion
drafts allowed teams to protect two goalies and did not make a distinction
between forwards and defensemen.
First-year pros only will be exempt from the draft, which is down
from the two-year exemption teams had last season. San Jose, Tampa Bay and
Ottawa still will be allowed to exempt second-year pros.
Each of the 24 teams will lose two players, with a maximum loss of
one goaltender and a maximum loss of one defenseman. The one exception is
that a team which loses a goaltender can then no longer lose a defenseman.
At the end of the first phase of the draft, the two new franchises
will have three goaltenders, eight defensemen and 13 forwards for a total
of 24 players. A second phase then will be conducted where San Jose, Tampa
Bay and Ottawa will select two players each from the rosters of the two
new teams.
Ottawa, Tampa Bay and San Jose will be guaranteed priority
drafting selection in the 1993 draft as long as they have the three worst
records. Anaheim and Miami will choose no lower than fourth and fifth. The
expansion franchises will move up in the draft should either San Jose,
Tampa Bay or Ottawa not finish in the bottom three positions.
The two new teams will pick first and second in the 1994 Entry
Draft, regardless of their finish in 1993-94. Should either of the two new
teams not play next season they would have priority drafting position in
1994.
The owners announced the 1994 draft will be in Hartford and the
1995 draft in Winnipeg. The 1994 draft was scheduled for Boston, but a
delay in the construction of a new arena required the draft be moved.
-----
- League news:
Disputes:
The NHL owners and players have resolved differences over salary
arbitration procedures, clearing the way for about 40 hearings.  NHLPA
executive director Bob Goodenow didn't disclose how the issues were
resolved, but the prior sticking point had been the manner in which
statistics were used in arbitration hearings.
Olympics:
The NHL announced February 26, 1993, it will not make professional
players available to compete in the 1994 Winter Olympics.
League Leadership:
Los Angeles Kings owner Bruce McNall succeeded Blackhawks owner
Bill Wirtz as chairman of the NHL's powerful Board of Governors. Appointed
to join McNall on the Executive Committee were Ron Corey of the Montreal
Canadiens, Mike Ilitch of the Detroit Red Wings, Peter Pocklington of the
Edmonton Oilers and Ed Snider of the Philadelphia Flyers.
Gary Bettman, vice president and general counsel of the National
Basketball Association, was named commissioner of the National Hockey
League, Friday, December 11, 1992.
Miscellaneous:
Henri Richard, Bernie Parent and Billy Smith have been named
special ambassadors for the Stanley Cup Centennial, a season-long
celebration of the NHL championship trophy. The trio will appear at
league-wide function such as the All-Star Game and Stanley Cup playoffs.
The National Hockey League named John N. Turner, former Prime
Minister of Canada, to serve on Board of Directors of Hockey Hall of Fame
and Museum and nominated Scotty Morrison, David M. Taylor, Larry Bertuzzi,
Robert G. Bundy, Walter Bush, Murray Costello, Jim Gregory, Leslie Kaplan,
Lawrence G. Meyer and Alan Tonks to serve on Board, which takes office
March 30.
NHL President Gil Stein was one of four individuals elected to the
Hockey Hall of Fame Builder's category. The others were Buffalo Sabres'
Chairman of the Board and President Seymour Knox III, Vancouver Canucks'
Chairman Frank Griffiths and veteran Canadian hockey executive Fred Page.
Former NHL linesman John D'Amico was selected in the Hall of Fame's
Referee-Linesman category.
-----
- NHL TV
Games are carried on TSN and CBC in Canada, on ESPN in the U.S.  Check
your local listings.
The National Hockey League has struck a conditional five-year deal
with ESPN to televise professional hockey through the 1996-97 season.
The series of agreements grants ESPN exclusive national coverage
of the NHL starting with the 1992-93 season, and the cable network has an
option to extend the term of that domestic agreement for four more years.
The deal also grants ESPN exclusive international television distribution,
excluding Canada, for the next five years.
The league's new TV contract calls for ESPN to televise up to 25
regular-season games to its domestic audience this coming season and 37
playoff games, including the entire Stanley Cup Final. The majority of
ESPN's regular-season games will be televised on Friday nights.
NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman announced Wednesday, March 3, that
ABC Sports will televise five Stanley Cup playoff games starting next
month. ABC will carry the playoff games on its network through an
arrangement with ESPN, the U.S. rightsholder for NHL games. ESPN will
provide the production of the games. ABC owns ESPN.
April 18 - Wales Conference Game #1 Quarterfinals
April 25 - Campbell Conference Game #4 Quarterfinals
May 2 - Wales Conference Game #1 Semifinals
May 9 - Campbell Conference Game #4 Semifinals
May 16 - Wales Conference Game #1 Finals
-----
- Award winners, all-star teams, hall of fame inductees, and draft picks
91-92 Award Winners:
Hart Trophy (MVP): Mark Messier (NYR)
Vezina Trophy (best goalie): Patrick Roy (Mon)
Norris Trophy (best defenseman): Brian Leetch (NYR)
Calder Trophy (best rookie): Pavel Bure (Van)
Selke Trophy (best defensive forward): Guy Carbonneau (Mon)
Lady Byng Trophy (sportsmanship): Wayne Gretzky (LA)
Jack Adams Award (best coach): Pat Quinn (Van)
Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy (perseverance): Mark Fitzpatrick (NYI)
King Clancy Trophy (contribution to community): Ray Bourque (Bos)
Jennings Trophy (lowest team GAA): Patrick Roy (Mon)
Art Ross Trophy (most scoring points): Mario Lemieux (Pit)
Hall of Famer players Frank Boucher and Red Dutton and executives
Bruce McNall and Gil Stein Thursday were named the 1993 winners of the
Lester Patrick Award for ``outstanding service to hockey in the United
States''. The award is selected each year by a committee representing a
wide cross-section of the hockey community.
91-92 1st All-Star Team: Patrick Roy (G, Mon), Ray Bourque (D, Bos),
Brian Leetch (D, NYR), Mark Messier (C, NYR), Brett Hull (RW, StL), Kevin
Stevens (LW, Pit)
92-93 All-Star Game Starters (as voted by fans):
Wales Conference: Mario Lemieux (C, Pittsburgh), Jaromir Jagr (W,
Pittsburgh), Kevin Stevens (W, Pittsburgh), Ray Bourque (D, Boston), Brian
Leetch (D, Rangers), Patrick Roy, (G, Montreal).
Campbell Conference: Steve Yzerman (C, Detroit), Brett Hull (W, St.
Louis), Pavel Bure (W, Vancouver), Chris Chelios (D, Chicago), Paul Coffey
(D, Los Angeles), Ed Belfour (G, Chicago)
91-92 All-rookie team: Gilbert Dionne (LW, Mon), Tony Amonte (RW, NYR),
Kevin Todd (C, NJ), Vladimir Konstantinov (D, Det), Nicklas Lidstrom (D,
Det), Dominik Hasek (G, Chi).
1992 Hall of Fame Inductees: Marcel Dionne, Bob Gainey, Lanny McDonald,
and Woody Dumart.
First round of the 1992 entry draft:
# Player (pos, team)
1 Roman Hamrlik (D, TB)
2 Alexei Yashin (C, Ott)
3 Mike Rathje (D, SJ)
4 Todd Warriner (LW, Que)
5 Darius Kasparaitis (D, NYI)
6 Cory Stillman (C, Cal)
7 Ryan Sittler (LW, Phi)
8 Brandon Convery (C, Tor)
9 Robert Petrovicky (C, Har)
10 Andrei Nazarov (LW, SJ)
11 David Cooper (D, Buf)
12 Sergei Krivokrasov (LW, Chi)
13 Joe Hulbig (LW, Edm)
14 Sergei Gonchar (D, Was)
15 Jason Bowen (LW, Phi)
16 Dmitri Kvartalnov (LW, Bos)
17 Sergei Bautin (D, Win)
18 Jason Smith (D, NJ)
19 Martin Straka (C, Pit)
20 David Wilkie (D, Mon)
21 Libor Polasek (C, Van)
22 Curtis Bowen (LW, Det)
23 Grant Marshall (RW, Tor)
24 Peter Ferraro (C, NYR)
-----
- New NHL Rules
Game ejection for instigating a fight.
Helmets are optional.
Grabbing an opponent's stick as a defensive move is a penalty.
Diving to draw a penalty is a penalty.
Coincidental minors when both teams are full-strength result in 4 vs. 4
play.
High sticking is from the waist up.
- New CBA - ratified by NHLPA on 4/11/92
Term: September 16, 1991 to September 15, 1993.
Licensing and endorsements: Players own exclusive rights to their
individual personality, including their likenesses.
Salary arbitration: New rules negotiated; 8 salary arbitrators to be
jointly agreed upon.
Free agency: Compensation scale reduced for players age 30 and under.
Group III free agent age reduced to 30 from 31. A player who has completed
10 or more professional seasons (minor or NHL) and who in last year of
contract didn't earn more than the average NHL salary, can elect once in
his career to become an unrestricted free agent at the end of his
contract.
Salary and awards: Players' playoff fund increased to $7.5M in 1991-92 &
$9M in 92-93. New minimum salary of $100,000.
Insurance: $200,000 disability coverage. Dental & broad-based medical
improvements. 100% increase in life insurance for players; coverage for
wives.
Pension: Improved pension contributions of $8000 to $12500 per player per
year, depending on the player's number of NHL games. Agreement on language
to guarantee continuation of Security Plan negotiated in 1986.
Regular season: Increased from 80 to 84 games in 92-93. For 2 games
played at neutral sites, all arrangements and revenues to be shared.
Rosters: Kept at 18 skaters and 2 goaltenders for 92-93.
Entry draft: Reduced to 11 rounds from 12.
Supplemental draft: One selection for each non-playoff team.
Joint study group: Examine financial state of NHL & issue report to
assist in preparing for 1993 negotiations
-----
NHL free agency categories (effective until 9/15/93)
Group I:
- players aged 24 and under
- player's choice of player equalization or draft pick compensation
- for compensation, old club has right to match offer from new club
- for equalization, old club has no right to match offer
- equalization, which can consist of players, draft picks, and/or cash,
must be agreed upon between two clubs or submitted to arbitration
Group II:
- players aged 25 to 29
- player's choice of player equalization or draft pick compensation
- for equalization, old club has right to match offer only if it is
at least $351,000
- for compensation, schedule is:
one first round pick if player signs for $350,000-$500,000/year
two first round picks if player signs for $500,000-$1 million/year
extra first round pick for each additional $1M over $1M/year
Group III:
- players aged 30 and over
- old club gets no compensation, but has right to match offer
- to receive right to match, old club must make qualifying offer of 15%
over player's salary in prior season
Group IV:
- players considered defected free agents
Group V:
- player with 10 years of experience whose salary is below NHL average
can choose to be a free agent without compensation once in his career.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. NHL Minor Leagues
The NHL minor leagues are the International Hockey League, the American
Hockey League and the East Coast Hockey League.  Information on the
Central Hockey League and the American Hockey Association can be found in
section 4.
-----
IHL
contacts:
IHL: Rob Springall <rgs7077@ultb.isc.rit.edu>
Atlanta Knights: Scott Clarkson <gt3394c@prism.gatech.edu>
Cincinnati Cyclones: Joseph Combs <jgcombs@uceng.UC.EDU>
Cleveland Lumberjacks: Rob Gasser <CSRAG@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
Ft. Wayne Komets: Rob Gasser <CSRAG@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
**
Milwaukee Admirals: Jason Hanson <jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu>
Salt Lake Golden Eagles: Roland Behunin <behunin@logdis1.oo.aflc.af.mil>
The International Hockey League has granted a franchise to a Las Vegas
group headed by Henry Stickney for the 1993-1994 season.
**
The International Hockey League named Bob Chase. voice of the Fort
Wayne Komets, as the league's broadcaster of the year. The IHL also said
the annual award, effective next year, will be named in Chase's honor.
Also honored by the IHL were Jim Loria of the Kansas City Blades
as marketing director of the year, Shelly Gartner of the Phoenix
Roadrunners as merchandise manager of the year and Steve Doherty of the
Kalamazoo Wings as public relations director of the year.
**
The Atlanta Knights of the International Hockey League announced
Thursday, April 8, that Manon Rheaume will be the starting goaltender in a
home game Saturday night, April 10, against the Cincinnati Cyclones.
Rheaume will become the first female to start in a regular season
professional hockey game.
**
Fort Wayne -- Announced winger Scott Gruhl will retire at the end of the
International Hockey League season. Gruhl will join the Muskegon Fury of
the Colonial League.
**
The Fort Wayne Komets said they have been told by Winnipeg that the Jets
will keep a minor league affiliation with Moncton of the American Hockey
League. There have been reports the Jets would move players from Moncton
to Fort Wayne next season.
**
The San Diego Gulls of the International Hockey League set a record with
their 61st victory, 5-1, over the Salt Lake Golden Eagles. The Gulls (61-
11-8) became the first team in professional hockey to win that many games
in a season. The 1976-77 Montreal Canadiens won 60 games.
IHL's 1992 Turner Cup: The Kansas City Blades defeated Muskegon
Lumberjacks 4 games to 0.
-----
AHL
contacts:
AHL: Rob Springall <rgs7077@ultb.isc.rit.edu>
Bri Farenell <farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu>
Mark Anania <ananim@rpi.edu>
See Section 5 for newsletter information.
Atlantic Division: Cape Breton, Fredericton, Halifax, Moncton, St. John's
Northern Division: Adirondack, Capital District, Providence, New Haven,
Springfield
Southern Division: Baltimore, Binghamton, Hershey, Rochester, Utica,
Hamilton
The New Haven Senators have been sold by Peter Shipman to the
Ottawa Senators NHL organization. They are the only Canadian NHL team with
an American AHL affiliate, and have made it clear they intend to move the
team to somewhere in the Canadian Atlantic Provinces. This sale and move
has yet to be approved by the AHL head office, but is expected to pass
easily at the general meeting in May.
The Baltimore Skipjacks, the Washington Capitals' American Hockey League
affliate, will skate next season as the Portland Pirates.
The Calgary Flames will base their farm team in the AHL in St. John, New
Brunswick next season.  The team will be called the St. John Blue Flames.
**
The Fort Wayne Komets of the IHL said they have been told by Winnipeg of
the NHL that the Jets will keep a minor league affiliation with Moncton of
the American Hockey League. There have been reports the Jets would move
players from Moncton to Fort Wayne next season.
AHL's 1992 Calder Cup: The Adirondack Red Wings beat the St. John's
Maple Leafs 4 games to 3. The home-ice curse held true as all games in the
final were won by the visiting team.
John Anderson (New Haven) is 1992 winner of Les Cunningham Plaque as AHL
MVP.
-----
ECHL
contacts:
ECHL, Toledo Storm: Rob Gasser <CSRAG@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
The Toledo Storm hockey team is asking SeaGate Convention Center
to consider becoming its host site beginning with the 1994-95 season. The
Storm, which has played its last two seasons in the Toledo Sports Arena,
said it asked for 55 dates in the downtown facility. The Storm also has
been talking with backers of a proposed ice complex in suburban Sylvania
to become a primary tenant.
ECHL's 1992 Riley Cup: Hampton Roads beat Louisville 4 games to 0.
See Section 5 for newsletter information.
-----
Minor League Affiliates for NHL teams:
Bos: Providence Bruins (AHL), Johnstown Chiefs (ECHL)
Buf: Rochester Americans (AHL), Erie Panthers (ECHL)
Cal: Salt Lake Golden Eagles (IHL), Roanoke Valley Rebels (ECHL)
Chi: Indianapolis Ice (IHL), Columbus Chill (ECHL), St. Thomas (Col. HL)
Det: Adirondack Red Wings (AHL), Toledo Storm (ECHL)
Edm: Cape Breton Oilers (AHL), Winston-Salem Thunderbirds (ECHL)
Har: Springfield Indians (AHL), Louisville Icehawks (ECHL)
LA : Phoenix Roadrunners (IHL), Raleigh Icecaps (ECHL)
Min: Kalamazoo Wings (IHL), Dayton Bombers (ECHL)
Mon: Fredericton Canadiens (AHL), Winston-Salem Thunderbirds (ECHL),
Flint (Col. HL)
NJ : Utica Devils (AHL), Birmingham Bulls (ECHL)
NYI: Capital District Islanders (AHL), Richmond Renegades (ECHL)
NYR: Binghamton Rangers (AHL)
Ott: New Haven Senators (AHL), Thunder Bay (Col. HL)
Phi: Hershey Bears (AHL)
Pit: Cleveland Lumberjacks (IHL), Knoxville Cherokees (ECHL)
Que: Halifax Citadels (AHL), Greensboro Monarchs (ECHL)
SJ : Kansas City Blades (IHL), Nashville Knights (ECHL)
StL: Peoria Rivermen (IHL), Dayton Bombers (ECHL), Flint (Col. HL)
TB : Atlanta Knights (IHL)
Tor: St. John's Maple Leafs (AHL), Raleigh Icecaps (ECHL), Brantford
(Col. HL)
Van: Columbus Chill (ECHL), Hamilton Canucks (AHL)
Was: Baltimore Skipjacks (AHL), Hampton Roads Admirals (ECHL)
Win: Moncton Hawks (AHL), Thunder Bay (Col. HL)
Ind: Cincinnati Cyclones (IHL)
Fort Wayne Komets (IHL)
Michigan Falcons (Colonial HL)
Milwaukee Admirals (IHL)
San Diego Gulls (IHL)
St. Thomas (Colonial HL)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. College Hockey
contacts:
NCAA: Mike Machnik <nin15b34@merrimack.edu>
Wisconsin Badgers: Jeff Horvath <horvath@cs.wisc.edu>
CCHA, Bowling Green State: Keith Instone <instone@euclid.bgsu.edu>
ECAC, Clarkson: Bri Farenell <farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu>
- e-mail lists:
Wayne Smith <wts@maine.maine.edu> maintains 2 lists, one for discussions
(HOCKEY-L) and one for news (HOCKEY-D):
send e-mail to <listserv@maine.maine.edu> with body:
SUBSCRIBE HOCKEY-L <name & favorite team>
or
SUBSCRIBE HOCKEY-D <name>
(a read-only list containing news from HOCKEY-L)
Up-to-date Division I standings and scores can be obtained through the
archives of the College Hockey Mailing List.  Send a message to the server
at listserv@maine.maine.edu with the body containing ONLY the commands
(either or both)
- ftp site: andy.bgsu.edu
The directory "pub/Hockey" contains CCHA press releases, scores,
standings, and rosters. The sub-directory "Archives" has archives of the
Division I college hockey mailing list since 1989. Also, archives from the
Division III list since May 1992 are available.
NCAA hockey championship:
Semi-finals:  Maine 4, Michigan 3 (OT)
Lake Superior State 6, Boston University 1
Finals:  Maine 5, Lake Superior State 4
Freshman Paul Kariya who was named winner of the 1992-93 Hobey Baker
Award as college hockey's top player.
**
The NCAA Division I Hockey Championships will be held at the St. Paul
Civic Center in St. Paul, Minnesota, on March 31 and April 2, 1994.
For priority seating call the University of Minnesota Ticket Office at
(612) 624-8080, between 8:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m., Monday through Friday or
send a postcard to:
University of Minnesota Ticket Office
1994 NCAA Hockey Championships
516 15th Avenue SE
Minneapolis  MN  55455
- NCAA Division I Teams
CCHA (Central Collegiate Hockey Association):
Bowling Green, Ferris State, Illinois-Chicago, Lake Superior, Miami,
Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Western Michigan, Notre Dame, Kent
State, Alaska-Fairbanks (affiliate member )
CCHA Playoff structure:  The top 6 will host the bottom 6 (1 vs
12, 2 vs 11, etc) in a two-of-three weekend series The six winners will
advance to Joe Louis Arena for single elimination the rest of the way. The
top 2 remaining seeds get a bye while 3 plays 6 and 4 plays 5 on the first
night. On the second night, the 4 remaining teams battle it out, leaving
only two to play for the championship, on the third night. Alaska-
Fairbanks, as an affiliate member, will be seeded from #7 to #12 by the
league office.
ECAC (Eastern College Athletic Conference) (men's):
Brown, Clarkson, Colgate, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Princeton, RPI, St.
Lawrence, Union, Vermont, Yale
ECAC (Eastern College Athletic Conference) (women's):
Brown, Colby, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, New Hampshire, Northeastern,
Princeton, Providence, Rochester Institute of Technology, St. Lawrence,
Yale
The Eastern Collegiate Athletic Conference unveiled the nation's
first intercollegiate women's ice hockey league and announced the 12 teams
will begin play in the 1993-94 season. The top eight finishers in the ECAC
Women's Ice Hockey League will qualify for a post-season tournament. The
league replaces an informal 15-team conference of nine Division I and six
Division III schools, which held their own respective division tournaments
at the end of the regular season. The ECAC said it would discontinue its
Division III women's tournament after the 1992-93 season.
Hockey East:
Boston College, Boston University, UMass-Lowell, Maine, Merrimack, New
Hampshire, Northeastern, Providence
WCHA (Western Collegiate Hockey Association):
Colorado College, Denver, Michigan Tech, Minnesota, Minnesota-Duluth,
North Dakota, Northern Michigan, St Cloud, Wisconsin
Alaska-Anchorage has joined the WCHA as a full-fledged member for 93-94
Independents:
Air Force, Alabama-Huntsville, Alaska-Anchorage, Alaska-Fairbanks, Army
-----
- Canadian Intercollegiate Athletic Union
CIAU Championships:
Finalists:
Team:                                         Division:
University of Alberta Golden Bears            West
University of Guelph Gryphons                 Ontario West
University of Toronto Varsity Blues           Ontario East
University of Acadia Axemen                   East
Semi-finals:  Acadia 9, Alberta 4
Toronto 3, Guelph  2
Finals:  Acadia 12, Toronto 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Other Hockey Leagues
- 1992 World Championships in Czechoslovakia
Sweden defeated Finland 5-2 (gold medal match)
Czechoslovakia defeated Switzerland 5-2 (bronze medal match)
Final Standings (round robin):
GROUP A   W T L  GF GA Pts   GROUP B  W T L  GF GA PTS
Finland   5 0 0  32  8  10   Russia   4 1 0  23 10   9
Germany   4 0 1  30 14   8   Czech    4 0 1  18  7   8
USA       2 1 2  14 15   5   Switz    2 2 1  12 11   6
Sweden    1 2 2  14 12   4   Canada   2 1 2  15 18   5
Italy     1 1 3  10 18   3   Norway   1 0 4   8 16   2
Poland    0 0 5   8 41   0   France   0 0 5   8 22   0
Austria will replace Poland in Pool A of 1993 WC in Germany
The 1993 World Championships (Pool A) is scheduled to run from Apr 18 to
May 2 in Munich, Germany.
-----
**
- 1993 World Championships (Pool B) in Eindhoven, the Netherlands
#g    w l t    pts      gf    ga
1. Great Britain     7    7 0 0    14       50    13
2. Poland            7    6 1 0    12       71    12
3. Netherlands       7    5 2 0    10       47    20
4. Denmark           7    4 3 0     8       38    24
5. Japan             7    3 4 0     6       34    31
6. Romania           7    2 5 0     4       20    44
7. China             7    1 6 0     2       12    79
8. Bulgaria          7    0 7 0     0        9    58
Great Britain advances to Pool A.  Bulgaria is relegated to Pool C.
-----
- 1992 Olympic Games
**
- e-mail lists:
Charlie Slavin <slavin@maine.maine.edu> maintains OlymPuck - The Olympic
Hockey Discussion List:
send e-mail to <listserv@maine.maine.edu> with body:
SUBSCRIBE   OlymPuck   your_name   favorite country(ies)
CIS won the gold, Canada the silver, and Czechoslovakia the bronze
(defeated USA).
Yale hockey coach Tim Taylor was named coach for the '94 US Olympic Team.
Dany Dube from the UQTR Patriotes (CIAU) and Tom Renney from the Kamloops
Blazers (WHL) are co-coaches of Canada's national program.
The 1998 Nagano Winter Olympic Organizing Committee said it has
approved the addition of women's ice hockey and curling to the list of
official medal events at the Games.  The decision, which came at the
organizing committee meeting here, followed an accord reached in Nagano
between the committee and the IOC Coordination Committee.  The decision
will be formally ratified by an Executive Board meeting of the
International Olympic Committee (IOC) and its Session.  As a result, the
number of total events at Nagano will increase to 64 in seven sports.
-----
- 1991 Canada Cup
Team Canada defeated Team USA 2 games to 0.
-----
- 1992 Izvestia hockey tournament
Final:  Russia II - Czechoslovakia  2-1
Game for 3rd and 4th place:  Russia I - Sweden  4-1
Game for 5th and 6th place:  Finland - Switzerland  3-1
Game for 7th and 8th place:  Canada - Germany  6-1
Final Standings for the 25th Izvestia Cup:
1. Russia II (the Russian Olympic team)
2. Czechoslovakia
3. Russia I
4. Sweden
5. Finland
6. Switzerland
7. Canada
8. Germany
-----
- 1992 Germany Cup
Russia defeated Team Canada 6-3 to win the $170,000 four-team
Germany Cup for the third time. The Russian team, coached for the first
time by the legendary Boris Michailov, assured itself of the $67,000
winner's check after a 3-1 win over Czechoslovakia. The former Soviet
Union and Commonwealth of Independent States captured the tournament in
1988 and 1991 under Viktor Tikhonov.
-----
- 1992 Spengler Cup
Canada, with Fabian Joseph scoring his second goal of the game at
3:47 of overtime, beat Farjestad (Sweden) 6-5 in the final of the Spengler
Cup at Davos, Switzerland. The Canadians overcame a two-goal deficit in
the final two minutes of regulation and went on to earn their second
overtime victory within 15 hours.
Final:
Team Canada - Farjestad (Sweden)  6-5 (1-1,2-2,2-2,1-0)  OT
-----
- 1992 European cup finals
Duesseldorf, December 30, 1992
Bronze:  Jokerit Helsinki - Lions Milano 4-2.
Gold:  Malmoe IF - Dynamo Moscow 4-3 (Shootout)
This was the third successive European championship for a Swedish team:
in 1990 and 1991 the champion was Djurgaarden (Stockholm).
-----
- 1993 Sweden Hockey Games
**
Final Standings:
GP  W T L  GF-GA      P
1. Sweden            3  2 0 1  13- 8  +5  4
2. Czech Republic    3  2 0 1  16-11  +5  4
3. Russia            3  1 1 1   9-11  -2  3
4. Canada            3  0 1 2  13-21  -8  1
Sweden wins due to head-to-head result vs the Czech republic.
-----
- Junior Leagues
contact:
WHL: Randy Coulman <coulman@skdad.usask.ca>
Mitch McGowan <hamlet@u.washington.edu>
The site for the 75th Memorial Cup Tournament has yet to be
chosen.  It will be staged in Ontario but the exact location won't be
determined until next spring.
In March of '93, the two regular-season division champions from
the Ontario Hockey League will meet in a best-of-seven series at the start
of the playoff season.  The winner of the series earns the right to host
the Memorial Cup, traditionally held in May.
The eventual OHL champion will also participate in the tourney.
But if the league champs also happen to be the club hosting the Memorial
Cup, then the league finalists will advance as well."
Charles Poulin (Mon draft) of St-Hyacinthe (QMJHL) is '92 Canadian Hockey
League Player of the Year.
1992 Memorial Cup at Seattle
Round-robin standings              W  L  GF  GA
Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds (OHL)  3  0  14   8
Kamloops Blazers (WHL)             2  1  10   7
Seattle Thunderbirds (WHL host)    1  2   9  10
Verdun College Francais (QMJHL)    0  3   5  13
Semifinal   Kamloops 8  Seattle 3
Final       Kamloops 5  Sault Ste. Marie 4
-----
- Central Hockey League
contact:
Marc Foster <mfoster@metgem.gcn.uoknor.edu>
<mfoster@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu>
Ted Wollnik <twollnik@rdxsun11.aud.alcatel.com>
See Section 5 for newsletter information.
CHL:
Fort Worth Fire, Wichita Thunder, Dallas Freeze, Tulsa Oilers, Memphis
River Kings, Oklahoma City Blazers
Six non-affiliated teams play a 60 game schedule extending from early
November to mid March. Each team is owned by the league, with local
interests controlling day to day operations. Each team has a $100,000
salary cap for 17 total players (16 dress up). Unlike the ECHL, players
are not limited to three years in the league.
A Western Division may be added to the Central Hockey League for the 93-
94 season if the plans of CHL president Ray Miron materialize.  Miron
confirmed that El Paso, Amarillo, Tuscon, and Albuquerque are cities under
consideration for the Western Division, which would play some interlocking
games with the Eastern Division.  Meanwhile, San Antonio and Houston are
close to being confirmed as the league's newest members.
-----
- Major League Hockey
A new hockey league with franchises throughout the United States
and Canada will begin play in the fallof 1993, officials announced
Wednesday, February 10.
Major League Hockey was founded by Roy Boe, former president of
the New York Islanders of the National Hockey League and the New York/New
Jersey Nets of the American and National Basketball associations.
According to Boe, the league will debut with six to eight teams
playing a schedule of approximately 80 games. Franchise applications have
been received from groups in Chicago, Cleveland, Dallas, Denver, Detroit,
Houston, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Phoenix, San Francisco, Saskatoon, Toronto
and Worcester, Mass., Boe said.
Although the league will not raid existing leagues to stock its
rosters, Boe said it will seek the ``world's finest hockey players.''
Boe said league play will have an international flair and
discussed implementing some rules which are reminiscent of those of the
IIHF.
``We're removing the red line, moving the goal nets forward and
eliminating all tie games,'' said Boe.
The MLH office will operate out of Stamford, Conn.
-----
- British Premier Division:
contacts:
Neil A. McGlynn: <nmcglynn@axion.bt.co.uk> (from NA)
<nmcglynn@uk.co.bt.axion> (from Europe)
Steve Salvini: <steve@cs.hw.ac.uk>
Contact Steve for the GB USENET draft.
e-mail list: send e-mail to <uk-hockey-request@cee.hw.ac.uk> to
subscribe.
Durham Wasps defeated Nottingham Panthers 7-6 in '92 British championship
game.
-----
- Finnish Elite League (SM-LIIGA):
contacts:
Juha Koivisto & Kimmo Kauranen  <hockey@tac.fi>
Vesa J Pyyluoma <veikko@vipunen.hut.fi>
Final standings 91-92:
1) Jokerit, Helsinki 2) JyP HT, Jyvaskyla  3) HIFK, Helsinki
4) Assat, Pori       5) TPS, Turku         6) Lukko, Rauma
7) KalPa, Kuopio     8) HPK, Hameenlinna   9) Ilves, Tampere
10) Reipas, Lahti   11) Tappara, Tampere  12) JoKP, Joensuu
JoKP dropped and Kiekko-Espoo from Espoo qualified to the SM-LIIGA
Individual stats leaders 91-92:
Points:  Makela Mikko, TPS      25+45=70   (+ playoffs:  2+3=5 )
Scoring: Selanne Teemu, Jokerit 39+23=62   (+ playoffs: 10+7=17)
All Stars 91-92:
Briza Petr (Lukko),  Virta Hannu (TPS),  Laurila Harri (JyP HT),
Makela Mikko (TPS),  Janecky Otakar (Jokerit),  Selanne Teemu (Jokerit)
-----
- German Hockey League:
contact:
Andreas Stockmeier <stocki@cs.tu-berlin.de> or <stocki@tub.UUCP>
Duesseldorfer Eishockey-Gemeinschaft defeated SB Rosenheim in '92 German
final
-----
- Swedish Elite League (Elitserien):
contact:
Staffan Axelsson <etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se>
**
1992-93 regular season final standings:
1. Vasteras      2. Brynas        3. Malmo         4. Farjestad
5. MoDo          6. Lulea         7. Leksand       8. Djurgarden
9. HV 71        10. Rogle        11. Frolunda     12. AIK
Brynas defeated Lulea 3 games to 2 for the 1993 Swedish hockey
championship.
-----
- Swiss First Division:
Kloten became the 1992-93 champions of the Swiss League Nationale A
by beating Fribourg-Gotteron 4-2 to sweep the final series 3-0.
-----
- 1992 Women's World Championships at Finland
1 Canada, 2 USA, 3 Finland, 4 Sweden, 5 China, 6 Norway, 7 Denmark,
8 Switzerland
-----
1993 World Junior Hockey Championships at Sweden
Final Standings:
GP  W T L  GF-GA  +/-   P
1. Canada          7  6 0 1  37-17  +20  12
2. Sweden          7  6 0 1  53-15  +38  12
3. Czechoslovakia  7  4 1 2  38-27  +11   9
4. USA             7  4 0 3  32-23  + 9   8
5. Finland         7  3 1 3  31-20  +11   7
6. Russia          7  2 2 3  26-20  + 6   6
7. Germany         7  1 0 6  16-37  -21   2
8. Japan           7  0 0 7   9-83  -74   0
Canada wins gold due to head-to-head result vs Sweden.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Info available via e-mail
When requesting items via e-mail please include your preferred address
in the body of the message.  Sometimes the reply-to address is not a good
thing to go by.
- ftp site: wuarchive.wustl.edu (128.252.135.4)
In directory /doc/misc/sports/nhl there are some new hockey files.
Get the README file for information and contents.
---
- E-mail lists:
List Topic (Freq.)                      To Subscribe
Boston Bruins                           bruins-request@cs.Usask.CA
List Address                        bruins@cs.Usask.CA
Buffalo Sabres                          sabres-request@potter.csh.rit.edu
List Address                        sabres@potter.csh.rit.edu
Los Angeles Kings                       kings-request@cs.stanford.edu
List Address                        kings@cs.stanford.edu
**
Montreal Canadiens                      habs-request@janus.sdsu.edu
List Address                        habs@janus.sdsu.edu
Philadelphia Flyers                     seth@hos1cad.att.com
Pittsburgh Penguins                     gp2f+@andrew.cmu.edu
List Address                        gp2f@andrew.cmu.edu
St. Louis Blues                         jca2@cec1.wustl.edu
San Jose Sharks                         sharks-request@medraut.apple.com
List Address                        sharks@medraut.apple.com
Tampa Bay Lightning                     wilson@cs.ucf.edu
Vancouver Canucks                       boey@sfu.ca
List Address                        vancouver-canucks@sfu.ca
Washington Capitals                     david@eng.umd.edu
List Address                        caps@monster.umd.edu
NHL Boxscores (M-F)                     bks@cbnewsh.cb.att.com
NHL Boxscores (S-S)                     jpc@philabs.philips.com
NHL Goalie Stats (d)                    coulman@cs.Usask.CA
NHL Scores (n)                          wilson@cs.ucf.edu
NHL Team Stats (w)                      wilson@cs.ucf.edu
AHL Newsletter                          ahl-news-request@hamlet.cmu.edu
List Address                        ahl-news@hamlet.cmu.edu
ECHL Newsletter                         echl-news-request@andrew.cmu.edu
List Address                        echl-news@andrew.cmu.edu
US College Hockey                       (see section 3)
NCAA Division III Hockey                hockey3-request@hooville.mitre.org
List Address                        hockey3@request.mitre.org
CHL Newsletter                          mfoster@geohub.gcn.uoknor.edu
British League                          uk-hockey-request@uk.ac.hw.cs
**
Olympic Hockey                           (see section 4)
Freq: M-F=Monday-Friday, S-S=Saturday-Sunday, d=daily, n=nightly,
w=weekly
If you have something interesting, make it available. When requesting,
use the keyword in the body or subject. Also, specify team, date, etc.,
where applicable.
Available from Eric Rickin <ab870@cleveland.freenet.edu>:
Keyword    Description
AHLADDR    AHL team addresses
CANJUNIORS Canada junior teams
NHLTV      TV stations for each team
NHLRADIO   Radio stations for each team
USJUNIORS  US junior teams
XXXXDRAFT  XXXX (for XXXX=1989-1992) NHL Entry Draft
1991EXP    1991 NHL Expansion & Dispersal Draft
Available from Rob Springall <rgs7077@ultb.isc.rit.edu>:
Keyword    Description
AHL        Up-to-date info on the AHL
IHL        Up-to-date info on the IHL
NHL.C      A C program that prints the 91-92 NHL schedule for a specified
day
Available from Stan Willis <willis@empire.dnet.hac.com>:
Keyword    Description
ATTEND     91-92 NHL team home attendance report by quarters
PSLOGOS    NHL team logos in PostScript
Available from David Anthony Wyatt <wyatt@ccu.umanitoba.ca>:
Keyword    Description
ALLLIST    All-time List of Professional Hockey Franchises
Available from Roland Behunin <behunin@logdis1.oo.aflc.af.mil>:
Keyword    Description
SATINFO    Satellite info for NHL teams
Available from Mike Machnik <nin15b34@merrimack.edu>:
Keyword    Description
DIV1SCHED  92-93 NCAA Division I scores
Mike can also provide a schedule for any of the 46 Division I teams to
people who ask.  E-mail him for details.
Available from Bill Clare <Clare@Kodak.COM>:
Keyword    Description
RETIRED    List of retired numbers for NHL players
Available from Staffan Axelsson <etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se>:
Keyword    Description
WCMEDALS   World Championships Medalists 1920-1992
WCSTAND    World Championships All-Time Standings, Pool A 1920-1992
WCALSTAR   World Championships All-Star Teams 1961-1992
WCROSTXX   World Championships Gold Winning Teams' Rosters 1958-1992
(Specify XX=58-92)
WJHC       History of medals given at the World Junior Hockey
Championships
WJHCSTAT   Team and player stats from the World Junior Hockey
Championships.
Available from Paul Brownlow <paul@data-io.com>:
Keyword    Description
CHLPOY     Past Canadian Hockey League players of the year
MEMCUP     Past Memorial Cup winners
Available from <wilson@cs.ucf.edu>:
To use the statsmailer, send e-mail to "wilson@cs.ucf.edu" with subject
"statsmailer" and a body containing the word HELP to receive a list of
allowable commands. Things available: NHL team/league schedules/calendars,
a plethora of team statistics, scores of games, and some assorted hockey
files. Seasons 1988-1992 available. New material was added on 1/19/93.
Available from Mitch McGowan <hamlet@u.washington.edu>
Keyword    Description
ROSTERS    1993 NHL All-Star Game rosters
NHLLEAD    1991-92 NHL Leaders (Scoring, Goals, Assists, Power-play
goals, Short-handed goals, Game-winning goals, Shots, Goals-
against average, Victories, Save percentage, Shutouts)
ZAMBONI    Alan Thicke's "Book of Zamboni" opening from the 1991 NHL
Awards broadcast
Available from Matt Militzok <mmilitzo@skidmore.edu>
Keyword    Description
STATS      Up-to-date NHL statistics
Available from Harry Peltz <hbpeltz@mailbox.syr.edu>
Keyword    Description
SCORES     Compilation of NHL scores for the current month (in compressed
and uuencoded format)
Dates can also be specified for specific box scores, but try not to
request too many at one time (Max 5 box scores or three days).
Available from Richard Stueven <gak@wrs.com>
Keyword    Description
DIRECT     Current NHL directory file
Available from Michael Burger <mmb@lamar.colostate.edu>
Keyword    Description
TVINFO     TV/Radio stations for all teams along with network
information.
Up-to-date Division I standings and scores can be obtained through the
archives of the College Hockey Mailing List.  Send a message to the server
at listserv@maine.maine.edu with the body containing ONLY the commands
(either or both)
GET 9293CONF STAND (for all Division I conference standings)
GET 9293COMP SCHEDULE (for a full-season listing of Division I scores)
The schedule is about 1000 lines long and the standings file is about 50
lines.  These files are updated more-or-less weekly around Monday.
Contact Mike Machnik (nin15b34@merrimack.edu) with any questions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. USENET Hockey Pool
send e-mail to <andrew@idacom.hp.com>.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
7. Up-coming Dates
Apr 18 - May 2: The 1993 World Championships (Pool A), Munich, Germany.
Jun 26: NHL entry draft, Quebec City, Quebec.
Feb 12 - Feb 27, 1994: XVII Olympic Winter Games, Lillehammer, Norway.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
8. Answers to some frequently asked questions:
Q: Why are the Montreal Canadiens called the Habs?
A: Most of the team during the 40-50's was made up of people who lived in
and around Montreal. Hence they were called "Les Habitants" (natives of
Montreal). This was then shortened to the Habs.
Q: Why is the Montreal Canadiens logo a large C with an H within it?
A: In 1914-15, the Canadiens logo consisted of C with an A within it to
signify Club Athletique Canadien (CAC). The next year, CAC no longer
existed and it was changed to what it is now to signify Club de Hockey.
Q: What is the most informative hockey publication?
A: The Hockey News is preferred by most North American hockey fans. It is
a weekly journal with up-to-date info.
Phone: 800-268-7793 (Canada and US)
Phone/fax: 0483 776141 (UK and rest of Europe)
Q: How does a 5-minute power-play count in the penalty killing stats in
the NHL?
A: If X goals are scored, then the team gets credit for X goals in X+1
chances.
Q: How is +/- computed in the NHL?
A: First, +/- only applies to skaters. Except for a power-play goal, when
a goal is scored, each skater on the ice for the scoring team is given a
+, and each skater on the ice for the other team is given a -. Short-
handed goals do count for +/-.
Q: What is the five-hole?
A: The space between a goalie's pads. There are five major scoring zones:
(1) upper left corner of goal, (2) upper right, (3) lower left, (4) lower
right, and (5) five-hole.
Q: What is the meaning of throwing an octopus on the ice?
A: This tradition began in Detroit in the 1950's when two best-of-seven
series were required to win the Stanley Cup. Every time Detroit won a
game, an octopus with one less arm was thrown on the ice.
Q: Who was the first woman to play in an NHL game?
A: Manon Rheaume, a 20-year-old goaltender, became the first woman ever
to play in an NHL game on September 23, 1992 when she started in net for
the expansion Tampa Bay Lightning in an exhibition against the St. Louis
Blues. Rheaume played the first period before 8,223 at the 10,400-seat
Expo Hall on the Florida State Fairgrounds and allowed two goals on nine
shots. She left with the score tied 2-2, although the Lightning ultimately
lost the game, 6-4.
Q: What is the richest contract in NHL history?
A: Mario Lemieux, the superstar center of the Pittsburgh Penguins, signed
the richest contract in NHL history, a seven-year deal believed to be
worth about $42 million. Lemieux will earn between $6 million and $7
million a year, nearly twice as much as any other player in the league.
Q: Who is the new commissioner of the NHL?
A: Gary Bettman, vice president and general counsel of the National
Basketball Association, was named commissioner of the National Hockey
League, Friday, December 11, 1992. Bettman joined the NBA in 1981 as
assistant general counsel. He became the league's chief legal officer in
September of 1984. A New York resident, Bettman graduated from Cornell
University in 1974 and from New York University School of Law in 1977.
Q: How many professional hockey leagues are there in North America?
A: Six:  National, American, International, East Coast, Central and
Colonial Hockey Leagues.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
9. Miscellaneous:
For field hockey discussions, go to the newsgroup rec.sport.hockey.field.
For skating discussions, go to the newsgroup rec.skate.
Some sites get another hockey group, called clari.sports.hockey. c.s.h
consists of the UPI feed for all UPI news articles that are related to
hockey, including game results, summaries, scores, standings, etc.  Much
of the information in the NHL team news section comes from this newsgroup.
The rec.sport.hockey Frequently Asked Questions posting is posted semi-
monthly, usually on the 1st and 15th of each month, during the hockey
season.  This file was originally created by Tom Wilson, who posted it
during the 1991-92 season.  It was taken over by Mitch McGowan for the
1992-93 season.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please make corrections via e-mail, indicating "r.s.h FAQ" as the
subject line. Feel free to start a discussion on any previously mentioned
topic (but use an appropriate subject line).
Mitch McGowan <hamlet@u.washington.edu>
1
From: Robert Angelo Pleshar <rp16+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Barasso - the cheap shot master?
Organization: University Libraries - E&S Library, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 19
NNTP-Posting-Host: po4.andrew.cmu.edu
After watching the Pengiuns all year (and as many other teams as
possible), I've really noticed an increase in Tom Barasso's cheap shots
this year (and not noticed a corrsponding increase with other
goaltenders). I've also noticed that he usually gets away with it. Just
as examples last night, I noticed him elbowing Scott Stevens in the
head, which basically started the whole shoving match that got Stevens
(Scott) and Tocchet 2 minute minors. He also KICKED John McLean. Of
course he wasn't called for that. Isn't kicking an automatic match
penalty and 10 game suspension? I think Glenn Anderson got one a few
years ago for kicking Gaetan Duchesne in the chest. There's no doubt in
my mind that Barasso is the dirtiest golatender since Hextall. He's also
very good.
How about that Tocchet head-butt? Is there an automatic susppension that
goes along with a (non-kicking) match penalty? I can't remember anymore.
Oh, the playoffs should be fun,
Ralph
From: Robert Angelo Pleshar <rp16+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: How to beat Pittsburgh!
Organization: University Libraries - E&S Library, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 19
<kfnJYea00Uh_I1VmUs@andrew.cmu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: po5.andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <kfnJYea00Uh_I1VmUs@andrew.cmu.edu>
from Anna Matyas:
>>Now if we could just clone Chelios's personality and transplant it
>>into all of the defensemen on the Islanders, Capitals, and Devils...
>>
>>Gerald
>
>In other words, you want to turn them all into assholes so they
>will spend lots of time in the penalty box and get lots of
>misconducts?
>
>And this comes from a Chelios fan...
Yeah, and also be second in the team in scoring and play about 35
minutes a game and play on the power play and kill penalties and be the
best defenseman in the league. I'd take a whole team of Chelioses if I
could. (That way, when one got a penalty the others could kill it!)
Ralph
From: etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson)
Subject: Re: Bruins-Pens: the Ulf-Neeley fight
Nntp-Posting-Host: uipc104.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Telecom, Stockholm, Sweden
Lines: 38
mattb@hawk.samsung.com (Matt Brown) writes:
[more about the Messier-Samuelsson incident]
>While this is true, strictly speaking, it was the Rocksteady replicant who
>initially used his stick illegally to measure Messier's ribcage. There is no
>question in my mind, from seeing the replay in slo-mo, that Ulf-2000 was
>coming at Messier with intent-to-"hasta la vista" in mind, and should have
>been gone for that.
>
I agree with Rick that Ulf's cross check wasn't illegal. It was the kind
of check you see a dozen times during a game without being called. Slo-mos
sometimes have a tendency to make things look worse than they really are.
Besides, if Messier can't take the heat, he should stay out of the kitchen.
>So Staffan, how is Mattias Timmander doing this year? And any impression
>on Markus Czeriew??? (lost my roster list) on Hammerby? Does it look like
>they will make it to the Eliteserien for next year? And then get stomped
>if Markus goes to Boston?
>
Well Matt, Mattias Timmander hasn't been playing with the MoDo elite league
team yet (just the MoDo junior team), so I predict he needs a few more years
here before he can join the B's. I saw him play in the Swedish championship
game for junior players this year, and he played very well, a physical game,
but not the kind of rough stuff that Ulfie does (I suspect you would like to
have a Ulf type-of-player on the B's team too? :)
As for Mariusz Czerkawski, he has had a *great* season for Hammarby in
division 1. He scored -if I remember correctly- 93 points this season,
and then we have to keep in mind that a 50+ point season in Sweden is
considered *very good* due to the limited number of games. Mariusz is
Djurgarden property (he was just on loan to Hammarby), so he will play
in Elitserien next season, unless the B's can get him of course.
I would say that Mariusz has to be one of the most exciting player to
watch in Swedish hockey this season.
Staffan
--
((\\  //| Staffan Axelsson
\\  //|| etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se
\\_))//-|| r.s.h. contact for Swedish hockey
From: accgsg@vaxa.hofstra.edu (Gary Graffagnino)
Subject: Isles / Hockey Ramblings
Lines: 43
Well, the Patrick Division got a little more interesting last night.
The Islanders lost in OT and the Devils tied the Pens.  That means if the Isles
beat the Devils on Friday, the will meet the Caps in the playoffs.
However, I have some more comments on the Islanders and hockey in
general that I need to get off my chest :).  First of all, with the Islanders
back-to-back lackluster performances against the Whalers, one may think that
the Islanders are out of shape.  These guys always suck wind in the 2nd period,
come on a little in the 3rd and run out of gas too soon.  It is unbelieveable
how many one goal games these guys have lost.  Anyway, the games was pretty
wide open.  The Isles still have tons of trouble scoring.  The Whalers played
a golie in is 1st NHL start, I think his name was Lenarduzzi (sp?).  (His NHL
debut was the Tuesday tie against the Isles).  Like I mentioned before, this
guy looked like the best golie on the planet for a while (until he misplayed a
Mahlakov slap shot to go to OT).  I say it's because the Isles don't shoot
correctly.  Has anyone else noticed this?
Also, I think it is really a shame for hockey when I guy like Mick
Vukota gets as much ice time as he does.  This guy has about as much hockey
talent as Jiggs MacDonald (who did play hockey, I think).  Anytime he gets the
puck it gets stolen, and he always starts fights and gets needless penalties.
Richard Pilon is another guy who is on the ice to stir up crap.  And he's a
defenseman.  He's got to be approaching negative infinity for his plus/minus.
This guy gets beaten all the time.  Why the need for such "enforcers"?  Not
only do fights slow the game down ALOT, but it takes away from the guys who are
really trying to play the game.  I'll be one of the few to admit, I do enjoy a
good fight once in a while, but only when it's "called for".  You know, when a
guy checks the goalie too hard.  In other words, a violation of "hockey ethics"
might cause you to get puched.  But there is no need to start crap when you are
losing or becuase you can get away with it!! Does anyone agree that referees
need to be a little less lenient in the 3rd and OT?  I mean COME ON already.
I'm sick of seeing teams pulling guys down, holding guys etc. just becuase the
referee doesn't call it.  OT and late in the 3rd should be a time for strategy,
not physical prowess.  Trying to set up a goal should be first and foremost.
If you are so afraid that the other team is going to score that you have to
pull a guy down to prevent it, you don't deserve to win in the first place.
Just My Honest Opinion,
Gary at Hofstra
ACCGSG@VAXB.HOFSTRA.EDU
ACCGSG@HOFSTRA.BITNET
From: etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson)
Subject: Re: Pens Info needed
Nntp-Posting-Host: uipc104.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Telecom, Stockholm, Sweden
Lines: 44
Kevin L. Stamber writes:
>If there's anyone who can help me on these items, please
>let me know.
>
>*  Markus Naslund -- I saw that MoDo lost early in the National
>                     tournament and that he was playing for the national
>                     team at the World Championships.  Any stats
>                     available?  Any word on how he's playing?  When
>                     is he expected to join the club?
>
Markus had a good season in MoDo in the Swedish elite league, scoring
22 goals, 17 assists, 39 points and 67 PIM in 39 games.
As Daryl points out, Markus won't be joining the Pens for this year's
playoffs, since the World Championships starts April 18th.
But there is a good chance that Markus will join the Pens before next
season. MoDo, though, naturally wants to keep their superstars Forsberg
and Naslund, so the latest news on this is that MoDo is looking for
personal sponsors for Forsberg and Naslund in order to match the kind
of money they would receive in NHL.
Daryl Turner writes:
>By 'the club', I would assume you mean the Pens.  Don't hold your breath,
>you aren't going to see Naslund this year.  The World Championship
>Tournament doesn't start until 18 April.  So NHL teams won't see any
>influx of Europeans, and no team playing in the WC will see a sudden
>influx of 'eliminated' NHLers.  The earliest a player on a playoff bound
>team could join a WC-team is the last game of the round robin, and I
>doubt any coach is going to want to play short one player for that long.
Actually, Swedish coach Curt Lundmark is thinking about leaving two
spots open for additions from eliminated NHLers. It is Mats Sundin and
Calle Johansson that Curt hopes can join the team, although in a late
stage of the tournament. Technically, I seem to recall that you can leave
spots open until 24 hrs before the WC final.
Staffan
--
((\\  //| Staffan Axelsson
\\  //|| etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se
\\_))//-|| r.s.h. contact for Swedish hockey
From: pkortela@snakemail.hut.fi (Petteri Kortelainen)
Subject: expanding to Europe:Dusseldorf
Nntp-Posting-Host: lk-hp-17.hut.fi
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Lines: 31
In article <1993Apr13.091859.29570@abo.fi> MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF) writes:
>I didn't say every team MUST have a number of local players. Rather, the
>European teams should get the CHANCE to sign their top players before the rest
>of the league comes in. I agree that birthplace isn't that important,
>Dusseldorfer EG of the German league average close to 10,000 fans and they
>don't have a single German-born forward! Lion Milan made the European Final
>Four with fifteen Canadian-born players... But nationality is going to be an
>issue in Sweden and Finland, I think. We really need an issue preventing
>Lindros and Mario from ending up being drafted by a European team and vice
>versa. Player trades are a different matter - any player can end up anywhere
>after being drafted.
DEG has many german-born forwards in the team. In fact the majority of players
are german-born. 1992-93 DEG had 11150 average in 11800 spectator arena.
My Possible-NHL(European league)-site list:
Switzerland  : Berne, Zurich (Lugano and 1-2 others)
Germany      : Dusseldorf, Cologne, Berlin, Munich (Mannheim, Rosenheim)
Sweden       : Stockholm, Gothenburg (Malmo, Gavle)
Finland      : Helsinki (Turku, Tampere)
Italy        : Milan
France       : Paris (Chamonix, Ruoen?)
Norway       : (Oslo)
Austria      : (Vienna, Villach)
Chech        : (Prag)
Slovakia     : (Bratislava)
Russia       : (Moscow, St. Petersburg)
Great Britain: ?
Netherlands  : ?
Petteri Kortelainen
From: MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF)
Subject: Re: Sweden-Finland, April 14
In-Reply-To: etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se's message of Thu, 15 Apr 1993 06:32:53 GMT
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24
Lines: 36
In <1993Apr15.063253.17375@ericsson.se> etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se writes:
>
>  Played in Stockholm Globe arena, April 14 1993:
>  ===============================================
>
>  SWEDEN - FINLAND  4-3 (2-0,0-2,2-1)
>
>  1st: SWE 1-0 Jan Larsson        (Stefan Nilsson,Patrik Juhlin)       3:15
>       SWE 2-0 Peter Popovic      (Mikael Renberg,Thomas Rundqvist)   16:20
>  2nd: FIN 2-1 Mika Nieminen      (Ville Siren,Mikko Haapakoski)       0:40
>       FIN 2-2 Timo Saarikoski    (Vesa Viitakoski,Harri Laurila)     17:48 (sh)
>  3rd: SWE 3-2 Fredrik Stillman   (Stefan Nilsson,Patrik Juhlin)       7:35 (pp)
>       SWE 4-2 Mikael Renberg                                          8:40
>       FIN 4-3 Saku Koivu         (Mika Alatalo)                      13:17
>
>              Shots on goal:      Penalties:     Attendance:    Referee:
>  Sweden      14 12 15 - 41       4*2min         12,470         Borje Johansson
>  Finland     12  9  9 - 30       9*2min                        (Sweden)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, if things were different and I had my way, the headline would be: "NHL,
European Division regular season game: Stockholm Storm vs. Helsinki Tornado
4-3..." Two games against every North American-based team (46 in all), and this
might have been the ninth and final regular season encounter between Helsinki
and Stockholm. The remaining 27 games would involve Paris, Dortmund, Milan...
A nice dream.
MARCU$
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>  ((\\  //| Staffan Axelsson
>   \\  //|| etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se
> \\_))//-|| r.s.h. contact for Swedish hockey
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra)
Subject: Re: Leaf slump over
Nntp-Posting-Host: stpl.ists.ca
Organization: Solar Terresterial Physics Laboratory, ISTS
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On March 21, 1993 Roger Maynard wrote (in reply to an article by Graham
Hudson):
>> will still have the Jennings Trophy at the end of the year.  Potvin is very
>> good, and I do believe that he will be a star, but I want to see him
>> perform in the playoffs under pressure.
>You don't think he is performing "under pressure" now?  The major
>differences  between playoff hockey and normal hockey is 1. play-
>ing every other night which is physically exhausting and 2.   You
>play  the  same  team  in a consecutive string of games.  Is this
>what you mean by pressure?  Have you even thought about what  you
>mean  by pressure, or are your thoughts, like most of the rest of
>this drivel, simply half-baked?
This was <1993Mar21.223936.6192@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>, for anybody who
would like to check.
He went on (in another article) to say [paraphrased]
>"Playoff hockey" is just an expression used by announcers to convince
>simple-minded folks like yourself that what you are seeing is a better
>product than a regular-season game.
*NOW*, however, in article <1993Apr12.013939.23016@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>
(Roger Maynard) writes:
>With a 4-2 win over a tough Whaler squad the Leafs showed all doubters
>what playoff hockey is all about.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So, Roger, what exactly *is* playoff hockey all about?  Or is it a convenient
phrase to use in certain circumstances only?
You see, when you spout off with flame bait too many times, sooner or later
it catches up with you....
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra)
Subject: Re: Mogilny must be benched.
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In article <C5C68r.5sq@acsu.buffalo.edu> v057p7nk@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
(Andrew W Korbut) writes:
>Anyway, this game continued a trend that has sadly been taking shape for
>a couple of weeks now.  I had hoped it was fatigue, or an aberration, but
>I can't snow myself any longer.  Alex Mogilny must be benched as a
>disciplinary action, and soon.
>His explanation for Ysebaert jumping between him and LaFontaine to score the
>winning goal yesterday?  "Wasn't my guy, ask Patty about it."
Actually this stuff from Mogilny doesn't surprise me all that much.  About 4
or 5 weeks ago I read in the Toronto Sun a quote from Alex; it went something
like [sarcastically]:
"Yep, Patty's the man.  He's responsible for the team's success...I'm a
nobody around here."
I was going to post it at the time...I must have forgot since nobody else
was talking about him being a problem.
>If I heard that in the locker room, I'd beat the shit out of him on the spot.
>Patty took responsibility in the press, taking the heat off of Alex.  That's
>because LaFontaine is the epitome of class, and a consummate team player.
Yep, I'd beat the shit out of him too.  LaFontaine really must be a team
player...makes you wonder what the Islander management was thinking.
My question is what the hell is Muckler doing?  Whether he wishes to admit it
or not, the team is his to coach, and if he can't do the job then maybe the
job should be given to somebody who can.
Gee, kinda like Alex's spot on the team, isn't it?
> Dr.D [The Devils Advocate]
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra)
Subject: Re: Canadians - another Stanley Cup
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In article <93097.094815MECE7187@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca> <MECE7187@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca>
writes:
>Im sorry to tell you this, but unless they pull off another 1986 miracle, there
> is no way the HABS will win this year.   Ever since they traded for
>Ramage, and since Savard came off injury, they have been playing shinny.  And
>you cant blame Roy for the 4-0 loss to Washington, when 20 players could not
>score one goal.  I know, you think
>I am a Boston fan, but all of my years have been dedicated to Les HABS.
>David Degan
Well, it seems that the Habs have been much talked-about of late, so here's my
$0.02.  These guys have absolutely no concept of how to play in front of the
damn net!!!  Watch them in the offensive zone, especially on the powerplay.
Damphousse or Lebeau will skate all over the bloody zone, maybe pass to the
point, get it back, skate some more, pass it around....BUT WHERE'S THE SHOT??!
Answer: the shot is totally useless because they lack a forward who stands
in front of the net a la` Neely, Shanahan, Tocchet, etc etc.  Too bad
Demers won't put Dipietro or LeClair on the powerplay more often.  Dammit,
even Ewen would at least cause some disruptions.  Montreal desperately needs
a power forward with some talent, IMO.
Then watch them in their own zone. Patrick Roy is screened on everything. Say
what you want about his performance; IMNSHO he cannot stop what he cannot see.
And Montreal's defence does a miserable job of clearing the front of the net.
Last night against Washington Roy played a *great* game.  The first goal came
on the most ridiculous goalmouth scramble I've seen in a long time, and he
didn't have a hope in hell of stopping the shot.  The second goal came on a
deflection of a shot he only partially saw anyway.  Pathetic defence.  The
third goal was EN.
No wonder he gets pissed off at his defencemen.
dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra)
Subject: Re: Vlad's Playoff Picks
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Organization: Solar Terresterial Physics Laboratory, ISTS
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In article <vzhivov.734637613@cunews> vzhivov@alfred.carleton.ca (Vladimir Zhivov) writes:
Wales Conference, Adams Division, Semifinal
>Boston vs. Buffalo:
>The Bruins are playing some excellent hockey, and with Cam Neely back
>and Moog his old self again this should be a cake-walk.  BRUINS IN 5.
I'm hoping for a Fuhr miracle, but I agree that Boston will likely win the
series.  Goaltending is about equal, top offensive players are about equal
(Mogilny-LaFontaine vs. Oates-Juneau), but Buffalo has no answer to Neely
(not to imply that Neely is not a top offensive player btw, in fact he's one
of my favourites even though he's a damn Bruin :) ).  And the rest of the
matchup wrt lineup favours Boston anyway.  But I think it will go six.
>Quebec vs. Montreal:
>This one is very tough to call. Montreal certainly has the experience
>factor, but Quebec is more talented IMHO. It'll come down to the
>goalies.  I'll go with experience and Roy. CANADIENS IN 7.
Agreed here...but Montreal will be pushed to the limit.  Is it just me, or
does everything Montreal does in the playoffs come down to Roy?  Go Habs!!
Final
>Boston vs. Montreal:
>Will Bruin domination continue in this rivalry? Yes. Moog has
>consistently outperformed Roy in the playoffs (after 1986)..[other stuff]
> Bruins in five.
I can't predict a Montreal victory because I've been watching them play for
6 weeks and IMO they severly need some tougher players, especially to play
in the Garden.  Last time they beat the B's 5-2 but Boston had a clear
territorial advantage; the victory was Roy's.  At the same time, I can't
bring myself to predict the possibility of a loss, so I'll just say I will
not be putting money on this series. :-)
>Patrick Division, semifinal
>Pittsburgh vs. NY Islanders:
>What can I say? The Pens are flying high and have the most talent in
>the league.
Agreed.  NY doesn't have the goaltending to stop the onslaught, independent
of the trouble they have given Pittsburgh this year.  Pens in five, which is
credit to NY.
>Washington vs. New Jersey:
>CAPITALS IN 5.
Agreed here too, but I think it will go at least six.  Jersey has a decent
team, and Washington has done poorly against the division this year.
>Pittsburgh vs. Washington:
>If the Caps had Bill Ranford I might see an upset, but Don Beaupre
>just doesn't inspire my hopes.  PENGUINS IN 6.
I think they will use Tabaracci more after Beaupre gets shelled.  I don't
think it will go six either...*maybe* five.
>CONFERENCE FINAL:
>Pittsburgh vs. Boston:
>A replay of last year. The Penguins are just as good as 12 months ago,
>and the Bruins are much improved. But... PENGUINS IN 6.
If Pittsburgh plays Boston, IMO they win in likely five, possibly six.  They
own the Bruins.  If they play Montreal, I think it will go to seven, and once
again I won't be putting money on the seventh game.  I say seven because the
Habs have played Pittsburgh very tough this season.
>Campbell Conference, Norris Division, semifinal
>Chicago vs. St. Louis (or Minnesota):
> BLACKHAWKS IN 5.
Chicago will win, but I think in at least six.  Chicago is not that good,
IMO.  And remember that they take ridiculous numbers of penalties.
>Detroit vs. Toronto:
>The Leafs have had an excellent season, but they've been playing
>playoff hockey all year - the Habs under Burns were the same way and
>always wilted in the playoffs.  RED WINGS IN 5.
Very true.  The Leafs have much to be proud of, but they will soon find out
why Montreal did so lousy in the playoffs.  Toronto might win two or three
at MLG though.  Wings in six, maybe even seven.
>FINAL:
>Chicago vs. Detroit:
> This will be a war. Fedorov will win it in OT. RED WINGS IN 7.
It _will_ be a war...possibly the most intense playoff series of them all.
And yes, I think Detroit will win.  Probert will have to come up big though.
>Smythe Division SEMI-FINALS:
>Vancouver vs. Winnipeg:
> CANUCKS IN 7.
Our first disagreement.  Canucks are playing like shit.  They don't use their
size *at* *all*, which may explain why they get hammered 8-1 by a team
chasing them (Calgary)....Winnipeg in six.
>Calgary vs. Los Angeles:
>This would have been tough to call, except for three things. 1/ The
>Kings don't have a goalie; 2/ Gary Roberts will be back; 3/ the Kings
>shot themselves in the foot by trading a proven winner (Paul Coffey)
>for a proven loser (Jimmy Carson). Gretzky is just too weary to carry
>this group. FLAMES IN 5.
This is also tough for me to call, because I haven't seen the Smythe enough.
I don't think Roberts will be well enough to figure in, Coffey is a
non-issue, who cares what Carson has done before, and *never* underestimate
Gretzky.  LA in six.
>FINAL:
>Vancouver vs. Calgary:
> FLAMES IN 6.
If it is these two, Calgary will not need six games.  But I think it will be
LA-Winnipeg anyway, and LA in seven, because of home ice.
>COFERENCE FINAL:
>Detroit vs. Calgary:
> RED WINGS IN 7.
Wow, must've been tough to go against your team.  But let's see, I picked
LA-Detroit.  Detroit will win, probably in six.
>STANLEY CUP FINAL:
>Pittsburgh vs. Detroit:
>Three in a row and official 'dynasty' status for the Pens? Or can the
>Wings complete a dream season? Well, the Wings are better in goal (not
>sufficiently so though IMHO) and have better D-men. However, Mario and
>the boys can sure score. Look for Jagr to shine in the playoffs,
>though I sure would love to see Probert beat some sense into him. The
>Pens are just too much, especially since Detroit will have a tougher
>battle to get here. PENGUINS IN 5.
If Pittsburgh plays Detroit, it will go longer than five, and I wouldn't bet
against the Wings.  They are very strong, IMO, and nobody knows *how* strong
because they've been underachieving most of the year.  If forced to choose,
though, I'd have to take the Penguins.
A side note.  Vlad, last week you said that Selanne was a better player than
Gilmour.  NO WAY.  He is a more talented pure goal scorer...but aside from
the age difference, there is no way I would take him over Gilmour on my team.
I'm not asking for flames, either, btw....I've spent more than enough time
arguing on behalf of Selanne and I still say he's a great player.  But while
he and Gilmour are both dangerous offensively (give Teemu an edge),
Gilmour *does* *it* *all*.  I know a lot of Gilmour-bashing goes on, esp.
from Flame fans.  But IMO you guys are letting your dislike of Gilmour cloud
your judgement when it comes to his skill.  He is easily one of the best
all-round players in the NHL.
dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca
From: c5ff@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (COOK  Charlie)
Subject: NHL Summary parse results for games played Wed, April 14, 1993
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Lines: 147
Boston                           2 2 0--4
Ottawa                           0 1 1--2
First period
1, Boston, Roberts 5 (Juneau) 7:19.
2, Boston, Wiemer 1(Juneau, Oates) 17:47.
Second period
3, Boston, Neely 11 (Juneau, Murphy) 6:10.
4, Boston, Hughes 5 (Richer, Kimble) 7:55.
5, Ottawa, Archibald 9 (Rumble, Lamb) 11:37.
Third period
6, Ottawa, Boschman 9 (Kudelski) 5:10.
Boston: 4    Power play: 2-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Hughes             1    0    1
Juneau             0    3    3
Kimble             0    1    1
Murphy             0    1    1
Neely              1    0    1
Oates              0    1    1
Richer             0    1    1
Roberts            1    0    1
Wiemer             1    0    1
Ottawa: 2    Power play: 4-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Archibald          1    0    1
Boschman           1    0    1
Kudelski           0    1    1
Lamb               0    1    1
Rumble             0    1    1
-----------------------------------------
Washington                       0 0 2--2
NY Rangers                       0 0 0--0
First period
No scoring.
Second period
No scoring.
Third period
1, Washington, Bondra 36 (Pivonka, Cavallini) 6:54.
2, Washington, Bondra 37 (Cote, Pivonka) 10:10.
Washington: 2    Power play: 2-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Bondra             2    0    2
Cavallini          0    1    1
Cote               0    1    1
Pivonka            0    2    2
NY Rangers: 0    Power play: 1-0
No scoring
-----------------------------------------
NY Islanders                     2 1 1 0--4
Hartford                         2 1 1 1--5
First period
1, NY Islanders, Ferraro 13 (Malakhov, King) 1:29.
2, NY Islanders, Hogue 32 (Thomas, Turgeon) 1:57.
3, Hartford, Yake 21(Poulin) 4:15.
4, Hartford, Yake 22 (Nylander, Poulin) 16:44.
Second period
5, Hartford, Verbeek 39 (Cassels, Weinrich) pp, 2:43.
6, NY Islanders, Thomas 35 (King, Ferraro) 7:58.
Third period
7, Hartford, Burt 5 (Sanderson, Cassels) 13:41.
8, NY Islanders, Malakhov 14 (Hogue) 17:45.
Overtime
9, Hartford, Janssens 12 (Poulin) 1:08.
Hartford: 5    Power play: 3-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Burt               1    0    1
Cassels            0    2    2
Janssens           1    0    1
Nylander           0    1    1
Poulin             0    3    3
Sanderson          0    1    1
Verbeek            1    0    1
Weinrich           0    1    1
Yake               2    0    2
NY Islanders: 4    Power play: 3-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Ferraro            1    1    2
Hogue              1    1    2
King               0    2    2
Malakhov           1    1    2
Thomas             1    1    2
Turgeon            0    1    1
-----------------------------------------
Pittsburgh                       2 3 1 0--6
New Jersey                       2 4 0 0--6
First period
1, Pittsburgh, Daniels 5 (Needham, Tippett) 4:14.
2, New Jersey, Lemieux 29 (Semak, Driver) 10:19.
3, Pittsburgh, Stevens 55(Tocchet, Murphy) pp, 12:40.
4, New Jersey, Zelepukin 22 (Driver, Niedermayer) 17:26.
Second period
5, Pittsburgh, Lemieux 68 (Stevens, Tocchet) 1:42.
6, New Jersey, Semak 36 (Lemieux, Zelepukin) 2:27.
7, Pittsburgh, McEachern 28 (Jagr, Barrasso) 4:24.
8, New Jersey, Stevens 12 (Guerin, Pellerin) 5:45.
9, Pittsburgh, Lemieux 69 (unassisted) sh, 12:40.
10, New Jersey, Richer 37 (Nicholls) 15:53.
11, New Jersey, Lemieux 30 (Semak, Zelepukin) 17:40.
Third period
12, Pittsburgh, Mullen 33 (Jagr, Lemieux) 18:54.
Overtime
No scoring.
Pittsburgh: 6    Power play: 5-1   Special goals:  pp: 1  sh: 1  Total: 2
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Barrasso           0    1    1
Daniels            1    0    1
Jagr               0    2    2
Lemieux            2    1    3
McEachern          1    0    1
Mullen             1    0    1
Murphy             0    1    1
Needham            0    1    1
Stevens            1    1    2
Tippett            0    1    1
Tocchet            0    2    2
New Jersey: 6    Power play: 3-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Driver             0    2    2
Guerin             0    1    1
Lemieux            2    1    3
Nicholls           0    1    1
Niedermayer        0    1    1
Pellerin           0    1    1
Richer             1    0    1
Semak              1    2    3
Stevens            1    0    1
Zelepukin          1    2    3
-----------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Rheaume start
From: S960121@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU
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Just a quick note about Manon's immediate future: Rumor has it(USA Today's spor
ts page) that she will be playing with Tampa Bay's affiliate in the ECHL(I Thin
k. It's been a couple of days. :)) She will supposedly be competing for the num
ber 2 goaltender spot.  I think, after her performance, which was damn good for
someone who hasn't played squat all year, that we'll be seeing a lot more of h
er in Atlanta in the years to come.
Ward
-Go Blades!! Bring home the Turner Cup, again!!
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: What's so bad about the new playoff format?
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Distribution: na
Lines: 23
In article <115330@bu.edu> icop@csa.bu.edu (Antonio Pera) writes:
>
>   What's so bad about the new playoff format? Do you really believe teams
>that finish fourth in their div. deserve to be in the playoffs?
>With the new format, you have more of a chance to see more teams. Do you
>really want to see the Bruins against the Sabres umpteen times or would
>you rather see the Bruins and the Capitals in the secound round of playoffs?
There is really nothing inherently wrong with it but they tried it just
a little over a decade ago, and noone showed up for the early rounds in
the playoffs...whereas soon after they went to the divisional set-up
arenas were mostly filled in the early rounds.
The empirical evidence of the last two decades is that more people will
show up to see the Bruins play the Sabre umpteen times than see the
Bruins play the Captials in the first round.
Maybe hockey has increased in popularity sufficiently that this will
no longer be the case.  The experiment is worthwhile with the uneven
distribution of the expansion teams, but I prefer the divisional
playoff.
Gerald
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: For sale; Edmonton Oilers.
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 31
In article <mcm12B2w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> mbevan@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Mark Bevan) writes:
>
>He was already offered $65 million for them from Northlands Coliseum
>but refused the offer.... I don't think he is going to sale. I think he
>may decide to move the team to the States though where he can draw
>more revenue from the team.
>
Pocklington just wanted to wake up the powers that be holding political
office, in Northlands, and in the business community that the Oilers
with their current lease arrangement are in a state where on a yearly
basis they will likely have an operating loss based on "normal" hockey
revenues and expenses.  That he did this was a good thing...it is better
he complain early, and make the city aware of a potential looming crisis
before he begins to lose millions and millions of dollars...which would
truly jeopardize the franchise.
Pocklington's first option is not to sell or to move, but to sell
a minority share of the team (to realize some of the appreciated value
of the team) and to get a better arena deal, either in Northlands, or
via a new building.  Pocklington probably isn't going to get exactly
what he wants...but ultimately he will probably get enough, or will
sell to someone who will probably get enough.
There are a lot of risks in moving a team also...
...one has to remember "Peter Puck's principle"...it is better to
spend other people's money than one's own if at all possible.
Gerald
From: saross01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (Stacey A. Ross)
Subject: Re: Hockey and the Hispanic community
Nntp-Posting-Host: starbase.spd.louisville.edu
Organization: University of Louisville
Lines: 26
In <C5I2s2.3Bt@odin.corp.sgi.com> rickc@wrigley.corp.sgi.com (Richard Casares) writes:
>You'll have a hard time selling any sport to a community that
>can't play it on account of availability or financial reasons.
>Hockey is pretty much a sport for the white and well off.
What?! White, yes. Well off, definitely not. Hockey season ticket owners have
the lowest average income of any of the four major North American sports.
And think of where the majority of hockey players come from. From a farm out
in Boondock, Saskatchewan or Weedville, Alberta.
>When was the last time you saw a hockey league in the inner city.
>The insurance alone is a big enough barrier.
The inner city isn't the only place that is poor.
I think the biggest barrier to hockey in the inner city is... no ICE to play on.
Stace
>--
>+===================================================================+
>| Rick Casares			            Silicon Graphics        |
>| cubfan@wrigley.corp.sgi.com		    2011 N. Shoreline Blvd  |
>| "Just wait till next year."               Mountain View, CA 94039 |
>+===================================================================+
Organization: Penn State University
From: <AJS147@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Winning Streaks
<C5IJox.ErM@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca> <93105.053748RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu>
Lines: 14
You might want to clarify the 11 game winning streak.  That Pens streak
is a PLAYOFF streak (tied by the Chicago Blackhawks, who had won 11 in a row
until they met the Pens in the finals last year)  The 18 game unbeaten, so far,
is a regular season unbeaten streak.  But hey, don't take it personally.  I'm a
Flyers fan and two in a row is a stretch.  But with a healthy Lindros, Recchi,
Brind'amour and Tommy Soderstrom, they'll be there next year!
By the way, since the Flyers need defenseman, what kind of trade would
anybody suggest from the existing Flyers roster since the scuttlebutt is that
Terry Carkner won't be there next year and apart from him a piece of notebook
paper would be better defense.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matt Weaver (properly found at AJS147@psuvm.psu.edu).  Hey, at least we're not
the Whalers!
From: galvint@cs.nps.navy.mil (thomas galvin)
Subject: Re: Washington To Beat Pitt
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA
Lines: 23
In article <93105.052120RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu> Robbie Po <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>In article <1993Apr14.015415.10176@mprgate.mpr.ca>, tasallot@galaxy.mpr.ca
>(Mathew Tasalloti) says:
>>chances this year), but it seems to me like Washington is the ONLY
>>team that can stop the Penguins from winning their next Stanley Cup.
>
>  Really? I think both the Islanders and Devils would have a better chance
>at the Penguins than the Capitals, IMO.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>** Robbie Po **          PGH PENGUINS!!!    "It won't be easy, but it
>Contact for the '93-'94  '91 STANLEY CUP    will have greater rewards.
>Penn State Lady Lions    '92 CHAMPIONS      Mountains and Valleys are
>rap115@psuvm.psu.edu     11 STRAIGHT WINS!  better than nothing at all!"
Really?  What makes you think the Islanders have a better shot?  They
couldn't even beat the Whalers in two games!
(Well, since you're a Pens fans the whole question is moot.  I think
the teams most likely to beat the Pens are the Bruins, Nordiques, and
Blackhawks but I don't think they can really do it.  :-))
-Tom Galvin       galvint@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Bruins vs Canadiens: Talentwise
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 17
In article <1993Apr14.235849.15397@amc.com> richard@amc.com (Richard Wernick) writes:
>The bottom line is the Bruins are the better team this year.
>Montreal fans have been screaming for years that their beloved Canadiens deserve
>another cup. Since the removal of the French Canadien rule, they have been screaming
>foul. Welcome to league parity, something the rest of the league has had for years.
>Even if the Habs do beat Boston in the playoffs, they won't get by the Pens.
>I do agree with you, Boston is the more taleneted team.
>
The French Canadian rule was an extremely short term feature when the
universal draft was instituted in the sixties and only lasted for a
few years...and really didn't have any substantial effect during that
period.  The Canadiens Stanley Cup achievements were earned on a
level playing field.
Gerald
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Subject: Re: Playoff predictions
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center
Lines: 41
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com
OK, I'll join in the fun and give my playoff predictions:
1st round:
----------
PITT vs NYI:  PITT in 4.
WASH vs NJD:  WASH in 6.
BOS  vs BUF:  BOS  in 5.
QUE  vs MON:  MON  in 7.
CHI  vs STL:  CHI in 4.
DET  vs TOR:  DET in 6.
VAN  vs WIN:  WIN in 6.
CAL  vs  LA:  CAL in 5.
2nd round:
----------
PITT vs WASH: PITT in 4.
BOS  vs MON:  BOS  in 6.
CHI  vs DET:  CHI  in 7.
WIN  vs CAL:  CAL  in 5.
3rd round:
----------
PITT vs BOS:  PITT in 5.
CHI  vs CAL:  CHI  in 5.
Finals:
------
PITT vs CHI: PITT in 5.
=============================================
Walter
From: lli+@cs.cmu.edu (Lori Iannamico)
Subject: Re: Giveaways
Nntp-Posting-Host: lli.mach.cs.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Lines: 13
In article <1993Apr14.173826.29856@philabs.philips.com> jpc@philabs.philips.com (John P. Curcio) writes:
>
>That's probably because they couldn't find anyone to sponser it... Maybe USS
>could sponser the Pittsburgh Penguins/US Steel Steel Rod Night-- close enough?
Maybe in the 60's, but not now.  Steel is a dead industry in Pgh.
No, a giveaway night in the 90's for Pgh would be "Baboon Liver Night"
sponored by The Pittsburgh Zoo...
Lori
From: gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak)
Subject: Goalie masks
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 13
I'm starting an informal poll on goalie masks. I'd like to know
who's mask you think looks the best. I've always like Curtis Joseph's
of the Blues the best. Anyway, send your nominations to me, or post your
vote here on r.s.h. My e-mail adress is: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu
Thanks for your time.
--
GO SKINS!    ||"Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite
GO BRAVES!   ||   an effect on you?" - Mike Patton, Faith No More
GO HORNETS!  ||
GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu
From: ayari@judikael.loria.fr (Ayari Iskander)
Subject: NHLPA poll (Stats/2nd uptade)
Organization: Crin - Inria-Lorraine
Lines: 40
2nd uptade:
Here are the standings for the poll after 29 votes: 5 points for 1st, 4 for 2nd,... 1 point for 5th:
EA/ NHLPA game
1. DET 78
2. CHI 67
3. VAN 60
4. NY  59
5. MTL 54
6. PIT 23
7. WAS 20
8. BOS 17
9..QUE  9
10.CAL  8
11.ASW  7
12.LA   5
TOR  5
14.ASE  4
WIN  4
16.BUF  3
PHI  3
18.SJ   2
19.MIN  1
OTW  1
Atlanta to win Turner Cup 1 (not in the game, but 1 person vote)
Continue to send your votes in this format (until April 20th, approximately)
------------------------------------------------
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
------------------------------------------------
__
From: bdown@vis.toronto.edu (Brian Down)
Subject: Re: Barasso - the cheap shot master?
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Lines: 27
Robert Angelo Pleshar <rp16+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>After watching the Pengiuns all year (and as many other teams as
>possible), I've really noticed an increase in Tom Barasso's cheap shots
>this year (and not noticed a corrsponding increase with other
>goaltenders).
Have a look at Ed Belfour.
>He also KICKED John McLean. Of
>course he wasn't called for that.
Belfour kicked Gerrard Gallant when the Wings played the 'Hawks
a couple of weeks ago. No penalty. No review. No suspension.
This was after he attacked Bob Probert in the previous period.
He was penalized for that.
>There's no doubt in
>my mind that Barasso is the dirtiest golatender since Hextall.
>He's also very good.
Likewise Belfour. Too bad he goes down so much! :-)
>Ralph
Brian Down (bdown@vis.toronto.edu)
From: franti@polaris.utu.fi (Pasi Fr{nti)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Lines: 20
lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor) writes:
>>	Player:		Points:		+/-	Subtraction:
>>	-------		-------		----	------------
>>	Lemieux		  157		 53	  -104
>>	LaFontaine 	  145		 13	  -132
>>	Oates 		  141		 12	  -129
>>	Yzerman		  138		 33	  -105
>>	Selanne		  137		  8	  -129
>This is wrong. Among Lemieux's 157 points, we do NOT know how many
>are power play points. We may be able to find out how many PP goal he
>scored, but not how many PP assist he accumulated. We also don't know
>the # times he was on the ice but not credited on the goals the Pens
>scored.
That is what my point really was. There is not straight dependency between
the +/- and scored points. Apparently most of the netters have realized
it by themselves.
From: cubrj@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Brian Johnson)
Subject: the hawks WILL return to the finals!!!!!
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Lines: 11
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
Well now that the hawks have won the division the road is a little
easier for the playoffs. Let toronto and detroit beat the hell out of
each other while Chicago sweeps st.louis. That just makes it easier in
the second round with all the rest they will get and tor/det getting
none. For the conf. champ they will have a hard time versus the division
but that div. will be pretty battered also so the advantage goes to the
Hawks again. Then bring pitt. and sure the Hawks will probably lose but
its better to get that far and lose than to not go.
brian
From: gjp@sei.cmu.edu (George Pandelios)
Subject: Re: Washington To Beat Pitt
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Lines: 35
In article <1993Apr14.185059.27513@ncsu.edu>, fmsalvat@eos.ncsu.edu (FRANK MICHAE SALVATORE) writes:
|>
|>
|>
|> >
|> > What makes you think so?  I'd like to understand your reasoning.
|> > From my seat, the Caps don't really appear to believe that they can
|> > defeat Pittsburgh.  Therefore, they don't.  I think their spirit was
|> > broken in last year's playoffs and hasn't really recovered.  I don't know
|> > what the season series numbers were, but I believe that the Pens won it.
|> > I think that either the Devils or the Islanders will cause more problems for
|>
|>
|> What is this spirit crap?  I'm a Caps fan and hope they win
|> if they end up facing Pittsburgh,
|> but I don't think the Caps lose to Pitt because of lack
|> of spirit.  Yes, the Penguins won the season series against the
|> Caps.  They've won eighteen games in a row for God's sake.
|> Did you ever think the Penguins might be good, and that's
|> why they win?
I re-read what I wrote and it didn't say exactly what I thought.
Sure the Pens are a better team.  They've got size and the best skill players
in the league.  They've also got the best clutch goaltending.  They're the
best team in the league.
But, my point was the Caps have not played to their ability level vs the
Pens since last year's choke.  And that's the mental problem (the one they've
had for a number of years) I tried to point out.  Spirit, mental preparedness,
will to win, whatever you want to call it, it's missing when the Caps play the
Pens.  Actually, you're right - it won't make any difference.
George
From: wong@fraser.sfu.ca (Sam S. Wong)
Subject: Re: Mogilny must be benched.
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 21
dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra) writes:
>Actually this stuff from Mogilny doesn't surprise me all that much.  About 4
>or 5 weeks ago I read in the Toronto Sun a quote from Alex; it went something
>like [sarcastically]:
>"Yep, Patty's the man.  He's responsible for the team's success...I'm a
>nobody around here."
>I was going to post it at the time...I must have forgot since nobody else
>Gee, kinda like Alex's spot on the team, isn't it?
How can you assume it was a sarcastic remark?
For someone whose first language is not English, I would interpret
that comment to mean that he believes Pat is the MVP on the team and that
he is just one of the other normal players.  Quite modest I might say.
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Leaf slump over
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Lines: 79
In <1993Apr13.190225.29001@newshub.ists.ca> dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra) writes:
>On March 21, 1993 Roger Maynard wrote (in reply to an article by Graham
>Hudson):
>>You don't think he is performing "under pressure" now?  The major
>>differences  between playoff hockey and normal hockey is 1. play-
>>ing every other night which is physically exhausting and 2.   You
>>play  the  same  team  in a consecutive string of games.  Is this
>>what you mean by pressure?  Have you even thought about what  you
>>mean  by pressure, or are your thoughts, like most of the rest of
>>this drivel, simply half-baked?
>This was <1993Mar21.223936.6192@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>, for anybody who
>would like to check.
>He went on (in another article) to say [paraphrased]
>>"Playoff hockey" is just an expression used by announcers to convince
>>simple-minded folks like yourself that what you are seeing is a better
>>product than a regular-season game.
>*NOW*, however, in article <1993Apr12.013939.23016@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>
>(Roger Maynard) writes:
>>With a 4-2 win over a tough Whaler squad the Leafs showed all doubters
>>what playoff hockey is all about.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>So, Roger, what exactly *is* playoff hockey all about?  Or is it a convenient
>phrase to use in certain circumstances only?
>You see, when you spout off with flame bait too many times, sooner or later
>it catches up with you....
Nice try Deepak, but "tough Whaler squad" should have clued you in to the
fact that my Leaf woofing was tongue-in-cheek.
If playoff hockey is any more intense than the regular season variety then
it is because the teams are facing each other at least 4 consecutive times
in 7 days and hockey being the contact sport that it is, some things will
be carried over that might dissipate during the regular season.  But that is
only for some of the players.  Many of the rest, who have been playing with
injuries, who miss their families, or who, like Grant Fuhr, would really
rather be playing golf, don't really give a damn.  Of course I can't say this
for sure, but I believe that this is fairly typical of human nature and I
don't think that hockey players are above having what I consider typically
human attitudes.
With the recent salary escalations the key players are actually losing
money by participating in the playoffs.  The ones who regard the playoff
"take" as some kind of a bonanza are fringe players who are unlikely
to consistently be a force in the playoffs.  Now I know some of you are
going to come back with "winning spirit" and all of that crap but these
players are professionals after all.  While they may love to play the
game that love is entirely incidental to their purpose, which is, to make
a decent living.
Of course, the coach is a professional as well, and part of what he is
being paid to do is motivate the players.  So, if the coach does his
job well enough the players may respond with a winning effort.
The second season, is after all, merely an exhibition.  The true Champions
of the league are the division winners, the teams that come out on top
after the long struggle of the season.  The Stanley cup playoffs merely
accord victory to the team that has remained healthy and "hot".  The
emphasis on the playoffs, with their "sudden death" appeal has been promoted
by the media and the owners with profit purely in mind.  Even if Pittsburgh
loses the playoffs, we all know that they were really the best team in the
league over the year.  They proved it.
cordially, as always,
rm
--
Roger Maynard
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: s4lawren@sms.business.uwo.ca (Stephen Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Playoff predictions
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Nntp-Posting-Host: sms.business.uwo.ca
Lines: 50
smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
> OK, I'll join in the fun and give my playoff predictions:
>
> 1st round:
> ----------
>
> PITT vs NYI:  PITT in 4.
> WASH vs NJD:  WASH in 6.
>
> BOS  vs BUF:  BOS  in 5.
> QUE  vs MON:  MON  in 7.
>
> CHI  vs STL:  CHI in 4.
> DET  vs TOR:  DET in 6.
>
> VAN  vs WIN:  WIN in 6.
> CAL  vs  LA:  CAL in 5.
>
> 2nd round:
> ----------
>
> PITT vs WASH: PITT in 4.
> BOS  vs MON:  BOS  in 6.
>
> CHI  vs DET:  CHI  in 7.
> WIN  vs CAL:  CAL  in 5.
>
> 3rd round:
> ----------
>
> PITT vs BOS:  PITT in 5.
> CHI  vs CAL:  CHI  in 5.
>
> Finals:
> ------
>
> PITT vs CHI: PITT in 5.
>
>
> =============================================
> Walter
>
Not bad, you only got 2 wrong,...
Cal over Chi in 5
and Cal over Pit in 6 (or 7) to take the SC
s4lawren@sms.business.uwo.ca (Stephen Lawrence)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
From: gjp@sei.cmu.edu (George Pandelios)
Subject: Re: Patrick Playoffs Look Like This
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Lines: 73
In article <BSON.93Apr14154548@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu>, bson@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jan Brittenson) writes:
|> In article <1993Apr13.132133.16224@sei.cmu.edu> gjp@sei.cmu.edu (George Pandelios) writes:
|>
|>  > The Pens won't be playing Montreal, because Boston will win Adams
|>  > divisional play.  Buffalo and Quebec will make decent showings.
|>  > Boston, out of sheer determination, will win a game against the Pens,
|>  > but no more.  They have heart, but the Pens have too many big guns and
|>  > too many ways to win.
|>
|>    If Boston does indeed win the Adams (nothing is certain), and
|> indeed gets to play the Pens, then I think you'll find a very
|> different Boston team this year. Boston will use every trick in the
|> book to shut down the Pens offense -- something they didn't even try
|> last year. The Pens' weak spot is defense and goaltending -- if Boston
First, I enjoyed reading your post.  Second, I disagree with the Pen's weak
spot being defense and goaltending - for a couple of reasons.  Barrasso has
had a spectacular year - no slow start, consistently sharp, GAA < 3.0, and
leads the league in wins.  Tommy deserves the Vezina.  Given the lack of
respect he commands, though, I doubt he will win it.  The other reason
concerns the Pens' team defense.  They are hovering around 3rd or 4th in the
fewest goals allowed.  That is a big improvement for them, and it indicates
that they are playing better team defense.
|> can shut down the Pens' offense and get an early goal, then you have a
|> real game. If the Pens score first, then it's practically over. I
|> don't think the Pens have the discipline to stick to the team game if
|> they're held scoreless 5 minutes into the second.
|>
|>    Boston doesn't have the guns of the Pens, but the Pens doesn't have
|> the defense, goaltending, and discipline of Boston. Still, Boston can
|> put the puck in the net. Remember that Boston is not a "run-and-gun"
|> Patrick-style team, although they played run-and-gun hockey for the
|> better part of the regular season (who doesn't). Even Neely backchecks
|> all the way in behind his own net if necessary.
|>
|>    Penalty-killing will be a big factor. Boston are, I believe +2 over
|> the last 40-something short-handed situations, meaning they have
|> scored 4 SHG while giving up 2 PPG (one in a lackluster game against
|> Ottawa).
|>
|>    I'd say the series will go to 5 or 6. But I'm much less certain
|> whether it will be in favor of the Pens or the B's. Their styles going
|> into the playoffs are too different to make it predictable. Still, I'd
|> place my bets on the Pens I think. My prediction is that if the B's
|> can get the first goal in four of the games, they'll take the series.
|> Otherwise the Pens will.
|>
|>    But I'd rather wait and see whether the B's will actually get out
|> of the Adams to begin with... Buffalo, Quebec, and Montreal aren't
|> exactly planning to call it a game and go home!
|>
|> --
|> 						-- Jan Brittenson
|> 						   bson@gnu.ai.mit.edu
We'll see.  It'll be fun.
George
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
George J. Pandelios				Internet:  gjp@sei.cmu.edu
Software Engineering Institute		usenet:	   sei!gjp
4500 Fifth Avenue				Voice:	   (412) 268-7186
Pittsburgh, PA 15213				FAX:	   (412) 268-5758
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Disclaimer:  These opinions are my own and do not reflect those of the
Software Engineering Institute, its sponsors, customers,
clients, affiliates, or Carnegie Mellon University.  In fact,
any resemblence of these opinions to any individual, living
or dead, fictional or real, is purely coincidental.  So there.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Valerie S. Hammerl)
Subject: Re: Playoff telecasts in Atlanta
Organization: UB
Lines: 29
Nntp-Posting-Host: lictor.acsu.buffalo.edu
In article <1q9noa$d90@hsdndev.harvard.edu> nhmas@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Mark Shneyder 432-4219) writes:
>In article <IflYr6y00WB4A6F60A@andrew.cmu.edu> Mamatha Devineni Ratnam <mr47+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>
>>Does anyone know if all the Patrick division games are going to be televised
>>on ESPN and ABC? If some games are going to be left out(Or blanked out by
>>dumb southern ABC affiliates), I was wondering if anyone out there knows
>>of any sports bars in Atlanta which are frequented by hockey fans. I don't
>>want to miss out on any of the Pens games. I am sure that there are some
>>Islander fans(now that the rangers are dead) who would want to watch every
>>Pens-Islanders game in Atlanta.
>
>
>Circle Tuesday,April 20th on your TV calendar. ESPN will carry Game#2
>from Pittsburgh's Civic Arena or as they are advetising it : Pittsburgh vs.
>4th place Partick Div. finisher. Personally, Bruins-Buffalo or Montreal-
>Quebec City is a much better matchup but ESPN is hoping for a spoiler
>in the Pens series which it's not likely to get the way Mario has been
>playing for the past month or so.
I'd personally prefer Buffalo-Boston, as a birthday gift from ESPN,
but I don't think the folks at ESPN will accomodate that for me ;-)
ESPN has this inexplicable affinity for the Patrick division, it
seems.
--
Valerie Hammerl			"Some days I have to remind him he's not
hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu	Mario Lemieux."  Herb Brooks on Claude
acscvjh@ubms.cc.buffalo.edu	Lemieux, top scorer for the Devils, but
v085pwwpz@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu  known for taking dumb penalties.
From: hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Valerie S. Hammerl)
Subject: Re: David Polie's future
Organization: UB
Lines: 18
Nntp-Posting-Host: lictor.acsu.buffalo.edu
In article <92821@hydra.gatech.EDU> gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak) writes:
>In article <gfmoD2e00iV1892owC@andrew.cmu.edu> gp2f+@andrew.cmu.edu (Gary James Patalsky) writes:
>>Bad news for the Patrick division next year.  Caps GM David Polie is
>>reportedly trying to get a front office job with the NHL.  I can't
>>believe Polie has not been fired despite 10 years of mediocrity.
>
>	YES! YES! THE IDIOT'S GONE! THE IDIOT'S GONE!!!!!!! I wish
>this happened before he traded Hrivnak. Anyway, THE IDIOT'S GONE!!!
>
He's not gone yet.  The position opening is down to Polie and the
Sabres' GM Gerry Meehan.  I think I'd like to see Meehan gone...
--
Valerie Hammerl			"Some days I have to remind him he's not
hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu	Mario Lemieux."  Herb Brooks on Claude
acscvjh@ubms.cc.buffalo.edu	Lemieux, top scorer for the Devils, but
v085pwwpz@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu  known for taking dumb penalties.
From: jake@rambler.Eng.Sun.COM (Jason Cockroft)
Subject: Re: Playoff predictions
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 95
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jake@rambler.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: rambler.eng.sun.com
1st round:
----------
PITT vs NYI:  PITT in 4.
It looks like a safe bet.  NYI has been bagging it of late.
NYI and NJD have a showdown Friday night for the honour
of Pittsburg anyway.  Pigsburg in 4.
WASH vs NJD:  WASH in 6.
I think that NJD have a solid team and will compete with
WASH.  I agree though with WASH in 6.
BOS  vs BUF:  BOS  in 5.
The B's have been playing awesome hockey in the last
two weeks.  The only question is how long will it last?
Fuhr is a dud.  BOS in 4.
QUE  vs MON:  MON  in 7.
It seems to me that MON is much like the VAN - no chemistry.
The Habs seem to be not in stride. QUE in 5.
CHI  vs STL:  CHI in 4.
STL should not be in the playoffs. CHI in 4.
DET  vs TOR:  DET in 6.
I am a diehard Leaf fan but ... It seems that the Leafs
offense is shutting down in the last week.  Can they
turn it around against Detroit.  As I recall, the last
couple of time these two teams met, the Leafs were pummelled.
I don't know if Bobbie is allowed in Canada yet.  If he is,
DET in 5.  If not, DET in 6.
VAN  vs WIN:  WIN in 6.
Upset in the making here.  Another team with bad chemistry.
There is something gone foul among Linden, Momesso and Bure.
WIN in 6.
CAL  vs  LA:  CAL in 5.
Anybody that says that LA could possibly beet CAL does
not watch the Smythe a whole lot.  LA is a bunch of Geritols.
CAL in 4.
2nd round:
----------
PITT vs WASH: PITT in 4.
It seems to me that Pigsburg has some egos on their team.  Their
saving grace though is Bowman.  He can put anybody in their place.
However, if PIGS have a quick first round, they may be a little
too high.  WASH could be there for a surprise.  Having said that,
I will say PITT in 6.
BOS  vs MON:  BOS  in 6.
MON will not be there.  BOS is surprising me of late. Cam is great.
The couple of wins against QUE last week have sold me with the
B's.  B's in 6.
CHI  vs DET:  CHI  in 7.
Yikes.  This will not be pretty.  But DET is running like a machine
of late.  They've had a non-busy end of the season in which they played
like killers.  DET in 6.
WIN  vs CAL:  CAL  in 5.
CAL has a solid team, a little weak in the nets.  CAL will out
muscle WIN.  CAL in 5.
3rd round:
----------
PITT vs BOS:  PITT in 5.
I hate PITT.  My logic eludes me.  The dark side will take over
and give BOS the extra push it needs to dump PITT.  There may
be something to this - if you think of the rivalry.  BOS in 7.
CHI  vs CAL:  CHI  in 5.
Finals:
------
PITT vs CHI: PITT in 5.
NO, no, no.  We have BOS vs DET.  I don't know what to say
here.  Both teams will be flying and overdue.  I will go
with goaltending and muscle and say DET in 7.
-jake.
From: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Nntp-Posting-Host: hudson.uvic.ca
Reply-To: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Lines: 56
In article 6143@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca, maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>In <1993Apr14.201910.13370@sol.UVic.CA> gballent@vancouver.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine) writes:
>>1. You have completely missed the point with the Selke trophy.  It goes
>>to the best defensive forward.  This is the forward who forgoes points
>>to help his team out defensively.  It is an unsung hero of sorts.  Yes,
>>Lemieux and Gilmour are good defensive players, but they play a more
>>offensively oriented style than a true defensive forward.  This year,
>
>You mean guys that check but can't score?  The guys who can both check
>and score shouldn't be candidates?  Is that right?
The Selke candidate forwards main purpose on a shift is to prevent goals
from being scored- not to score them.  When Lemieux or Gilmour play their
number one purpose is to score- defence is secondary- especially considering
the line that plays against them is probably a defensive one.  That is
why they are not Selke candidates.
>>2. When Tarasov called Bob Gainey the best player in the world, it was
>>assumed that he meaned the best _technical_ player- the one who knew
>>every intricacy about playing hockey and never made a technical error.
>
>And who was it that made this assumption?  All of your friends maybe?
>Sorry Greg, but 2 people aren't enough...you can "assume" all that you
>want to, but if you think Tarasov was serious then you are an idiot.
Someone posted something about this assumption being lost in translation
(it was a few months ago).  Whoever this was please repost it.
>>I agree with this assessment.  Bob Gainey may have been the best technical
>>player ever.
>
>Right Greg.  Did you see this in the Sun or something?  What did you think
>of Claude Provost?  Gainey was nothing more than a journeyman player who's
>outstanding abilities were entirely political.  He might have had a col-
>lection of defensive skills but he had absolutely no offensive skills at
>all.  None.  But perhaps you think that the abilities to pass the puck, shoot
>the puck and deke a goalie or defenseman are not technical skills?
Gainey is the best defensive forward ever.  I stand by that assessment.
He was a very good player who belongs in the hall of fame.  Did you
ever watch him play? He never made a technical error.
<Babbling deleted>
>Gee Greg, the pundits were calling Gilmour the best two-way player in the
>league way back when he was with St. Louis.  I would have expected you to
>have picked up on that.
Who are these pundits??  Gilmour was good with St Louis- but he was not the
best two-way player in the game when he was with them.  You have overhyped
Gilmour on this net for months.  He is a very good forward- but hardly the
best in the NHL.
Gregmeister
From: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Nntp-Posting-Host: hudson.uvic.ca
Reply-To: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Lines: 24
In article 1@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi, hahietanen@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi () writes:
>In article <1993Apr14.174139.6604@sol.UVic.CA>, gballent@vancouver.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine) writes:
>>
>>
>> +/- is a good stat because it is the only stat that I am aware of that
>> takes into account defensive play.  It isn't a measure of defensive
>> play- it takes into account offense and defence- all aspects of play.
>
>  If we are interested of real all-round players, the power play stats
>  should be considered, too. Because the power play is also one aspect
>  of play! There is still something to be done with these player evaluation
>  tools!!
IMO any good player should score on power plays because of the man
advantage.  Very good power play scorers tend to become overrated
because their point totals are inflated by power play points.
+/- tends to expose these overrated players such as Brett Hull,
John Cullen and Dave Andreychuck.
Given the opportunity to play power play consistently, any player can
inflate his totals.
Gregmeister
From: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Nntp-Posting-Host: hudson.uvic.ca
Reply-To: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Lines: 50
In article 1676@mala.bc.ca, apland@mala.bc.ca (Ron Apland) writes:
>In article <1993Apr14.174139.6604@sol.UVic.CA>, gballent@vancouver.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine) writes:
>>
>> To adjust +/-:
>>
>> 1. First calculate a teams +/-.  (Goals Scored - PP Goals Scored) -
>> (Goals allowed - PP Goals Allowed (when they were penalty killing)).
>>
>> 2.  Divide this number by 5 to take into account of the fact that there
>> are 5 players on the ice and each is 1/5 responsible for the team +/-.
>>
>> 3.  A players adjusted +/- is (His raw +/-) - (Team Adjustment).
>>
>> BTW  If anyone could calculate and post adjusted +/- ratings it would be
>> greatly appreciated.  I might find the time to do so- but don't count on
>> it.
>
>I have a database filter set up for the player stats.  When it is posted for
>the end of season I'll repost the team averages.  You don't need to go through
>the complicated team adjustment you are using - all you need is the team
>average by summing all the individual players' +\- and divide by the total
>number of players on the team.  This will be a little distorted because the
>players who have been traded recently will have come with +\- scores based
>on their original teams.  This shouldn't distort it too bad though.  If you
>want to look at individual players from this perspective then go ahead -
>you'll require the original player stats though.
Question:
If a team uses 40 players in a season do you merely divide the total +/-
by 40?  If so, a player who plays in only 1 game is considered equally
valuable as a player who plays in all of them.
>Another way of looking at the same thing is to compare the deviation from
>the mean for the team of the player to the standard deviation for the team.
>I'll post both.
Since the standard deviation for each team is different, I am unsure how
"transferable" between teams that these stats are.  Shouldn't the average
standard deviation in the league be used?
I am interested in seeing each method.
But I still think that mine is the best. If for no other reason than familiarity.
Gregmeister
From: hamlet@stein.u.washington.edu (Mitch McGowan)
Subject: Minnesota recalls McGowan (HELP!!!)
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 24
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu
Derian Hatcher's game-misconduct penalty was rescinded by the NHL,
allowing the Minnesota defenseman to play in the North Stars' last two
regular-season games.  Hatcher was given the penalty during a fight at
the end of a loss at St. Louis on Sunday, April 11.  But the league
didn't rescind the game-misconduct penalty Shane Churla received.  The
Stars recalled center Cal McGowan from their top minor league club in
Kalamazoo, Mich., to replace Churla.
The above is courtesy of The Washington Times on-line service.
Now, here's where I need help.  If anyone out there has a tape of Tuesday's
Chicago-Minnesota game, please contact me.  Terms will be favorable.
Also, if anyone can tape tonight's Minnesota-Detroit game, please contact
me.  This could be quite important.  Once again, I will make it worth
your trouble.
Thanks to all.
--
rec.sport.hockey contact for Minnesota North Stars
and maintainer of the r.s.h FAQ file
Mitch McGowan a.k.a.    | KALAMAZOO WINGS  | MINNESOTA NORTH STARS |
hamlet@u.washington.edu | ST. KILDA SAINTS | TORONTO BLUE JAYS     |
From: franti@polaris.utu.fi (Pasi Fr{nti)
Subject: Re: Helsinki/Stockholm & NHL expansion?
Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Lines: 25
MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF) writes:
>Not too low perhaps, but surely not as high as that of an European NHL
>division. The Finnish team, for example, would contain all players currently on
>the national team plus a top-class foreigner or two. They would be in an
>entirely different league than TPS or Jokerit, both of whom have perhaps a
>dozen players of international class - if even that. Why settle for a minor
>league when you could have the best?
It is no matter what you call the teams, Jokerit and TPS, or Helsinki Tornado
and Turku Typhoon, the best palyers in Finland would eventually end up in
those teams anyway, if they were in the "big" league.
>I'd rather spend 150 Marks to watch the Helsinki Tornado play Montreal, the NY
>Rangers or Los Angeles than 50 Marks(?) for the privilege to see Jokerit vs.
>JypHT or even Djurgardens IF. There's nothing like the NHL, period.
Unrealistic for now. Maybe we should first just expand Finnish league to
allow teams from Baltic countries to entry!  Then others will get interested
in the idea, that maybe one should settle something bigger. The ultimate
goal, as you want it, would be European Division in NHL. Btw. does that
make a final with an Europan team against Norht American?
From: rrmadiso@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (*** CHUCK ***)
Subject: Re: Playoff predictions
Organization: University of Waterloo
Lines: 38
Everybody.  Please send me your predictions for the Stanley Cup Playoffs!
I want to see who people think will win.!!!!!!!
Please Send them in this format, or something comparable:
1. Winner of Buffalo-Boston
2. Winner of Montreal-Quebec
3. Winner of Pittsburgh-New York
4. Winner of New Jersey-Washington
5. Winner of Chicago-(Minnesota/St.Louis)
6. Winner of Toronto-Detroit
7. Winner of Vancouver-Winnipeg
8. Winner of Calgary-Los Angeles
9. Winner of Adams Division (1-2 above)
10. Winner of Patrick Division (3-4 above)
11. Winner of Norris Division (5-6 above)
12. Winner of Smythe Division (7-8 above)
13. Winner of Wales Conference (9-10 above)
14. Winner of Campbell Conference (11-12 above)
15. Winner of Stanley Cup (13-14 above)
I will summarize the predictions, and see who is the biggest
INTERNET GURU PREDICTING GUY/GAL.
Send entries to Richard Madison
rrmadiso@napier.uwaterloo.ca
PS:  I will send my entries to one of you folks so you know when I say
I won, that I won!!!!!
:)
From: cr292@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jim Schenk)
Subject: Re: the hawks WILL return to the finals!!!!!
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 9
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu
The Hawks won the Norris div, and sealed their fate.  It's bad luck
to win the Norris.  The Hawks will sweep the Blues in their dreams but will
lose in 6 in reality.  I predict that in the 6 game with the Blues Belfour
will go down on his knees 7000 time s and will spend the rest of the time
looking behind him self.  Butcher will pound Roenick and The warthawks have
no one tough enough to prevent it
Bye Bye Wart HAwks
From: umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Daryl Turner)
Subject: My predictions
Nntp-Posting-Host: gibson.cc.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Lines: 79
Smythe Division
---------------
Vancouver vs. Winnipeg - Jets in 7
The Jets have played the Canucks tough the last three games.  Everyone is
healthy for the Jets.  I'm biased.  :)
Calgary vs. Los Angeles - Flames in 6
From what I have seen, the Kings have looked flat lately.  I just can't see
them getting by the Flames.
Final- Jets in 6.
The Jets haven't lost to the Flames in '93.  They will, but it will be a
close series that will come down to how well Roberts has recovered.  I
don't think he'll be 100%, and while it will help, it won't be enough.
Norris Division
---------------
Chicago vs. St. Louis/Minnesota
Chicago in 6 against the Blues, 7 against the Stars.
Detroit vs. Toronto - Wings in 6.
The Wings should be able to shutdown Gilmour and Andreychuk.  Chelvadae is
more experienced than Potvin.
Final - Hawks in 7.  Brutal series.  Probert and Chelios will go at it.
Belfour is better than Chelvadae, IMHO.
Conference Final - Hawks in 6.  It hurts, but the Hawks are more experienced,
and that will carry them through to the final.
Prince of Wales Conference
--------------------------
Adams Division
--------------
Boston vs. Buffalo - Bruins in 6.
B's can check, Juneau is darn good, and Neely.  The Sabres rely too much
on Lafontaine and Mogilny.
Quebec vs. Montreal - Montreal in 7.
Classic battle, the inexperience will hurt the Nords, this year.
Final - Bruins in 5.  Habs will be hurting from their series with the Nords,
and Boston has been able to control the scorers on the Habs.
Patrick Division
----------------
Pittsburgh vs Islanders/Devils - Pens in 5.
One word.  Mario.
Washington vs. Devils/Islanders - Caps in 6 / Devils in 7.
I think the Caps can beat the Isles, but not the Devils.  Tabaracci has been
strong in goal, and if he plays like last year, he could carry the team.
It doesn't matter, though.
Final - Pens in 5.  Two more words.  Stevens.  Jagr.
Cup Final - Pens in 6.  Three last words.  Tocchet.  Murphy.  Barrasso.
The only thing I don't like about this is that the Pens woofers are going to
be out in full force again.  (I don't mean the regular Penguin fans...it's
just like the bunch around here that if these predictions are true will post
like nuts while the Jets are winning, but we won't hear from again when they
lose.)
(Oh yeah...next year's Cup prediction...Jets in 7 over the Nords.)
Daryl Turner : r.s.h contact for the Winnipeg Jets
Internet: umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca
FidoNET: 1:348/701 -or- 1:348/4  (please route through 348/700)
Tkachuk over to Zhamnov, up to Sel{nne, he shoots, he scores!
The Jets win the Cup!  The Jets win the Cup!
Essensa for Vezina!  Housley for Norris!  Sel{nne for Calder!
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Lines: 29
In <1993Apr15.160450.27799@sol.UVic.CA> gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine) writes:
>The Selke candidate forwards main purpose on a shift is to prevent goals
>from being scored- not to score them.  When Lemieux or Gilmour play their
>number one purpose is to score- defence is secondary- especially considering
>the line that plays against them is probably a defensive one.  That is
>why they are not Selke candidates.
>Gainey is the best defensive forward ever.  I stand by that assessment.
>He was a very good player who belongs in the hall of fame.  Did you
>ever watch him play? He never made a technical error.
I watched him over his entire career.  I have NEVER seen a player, and that
includes Russell Courtnall and Davie Keon, screw up as many breakaways as
Bob Gainey.  And I will never forget the time Denis Potvin caught Gainey
with his head down.  You have been sold a bill of goods on Bob Gainey.
Gainey was a plugger.  And when the press runs out of things to say about
the stars on dynasties they start to hype the pluggers.  Grant Fuhr, Essa
Tikkannen, Butch Goring, Bob Nystrom, Bob Gainey, Doug Jarvis, Derek
Sanderson, Wayne Cashman, Bob Baun, Bob Pulford, Ralph Backstrom, Henri
Richard, Dick Duff...and so on...
cordially, as always,
rm
--
Roger Maynard
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: JBE5 <JBE5@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: WFAN (STEVE & CHIEF ON 48 HOURS)
Lines: 30
Nntp-Posting-Host: vm1.mcgill.ca
Organization: McGill University
Greetings!
Steve Summers and the Chief were on 48 Hours last night shmoozing
sports.  I unfortunately missed it.  Those of you who saw it, can
you please provide a synopsis.
Thanx.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Czar of Mainframe Computing <JBE5@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA>
McGill University
---> I'M TOO SEXY FOR COBOL.
---> Habs...it doesn't look good!
---> Let's Go Expos!
======================================
| Peter Peter Pumkin Eater,          |
| Knew a chick but couldn't meet her.|
| Saw her brother one fine day,      |
| Sucked his cock now he's gay!      |
|           --Andrew Dice Clay       |
======================================
DISCLAIMER:
************************************************************************
*   Needless to say that the opinions expressed by THE CZAR represent  *
*   those of the faculty, staff, and students of McGill University.    *
************************************************************************
From: lli+@cs.cmu.edu (Lori Iannamico)
Subject: Pens box score 4/14
Nntp-Posting-Host: lli.mach.cs.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Lines: 44
Pens-6 NJ Devils-6
FIRST PERIOD: SCORING: 1, Pittsburgh, Daniels(Needham, Tippett)4:14.
2, NJ Devils, C. Lemieux(Semak, Driver)10:19.  3, Pittsburgh, Stevens
(Tocchet, Murphy)12:40ppg.  4, NJ Devils, Zelepukin(Driver, Niedermayer)
17:26.  PENALTIES: PGH, Stevens(roughing)1:30.  NJD, Pellerin-double
minor(cross-checking)1:30.  NJD, Zelepukin(tripping)7:21.  NJD,
Stasny(holding)11:15.  PGH, Taglianetti(roughing)13:51.  NJD, Lemieux
(roughing)13:51.  PGH, Jagr(tripping)15:23.
SECOND PERIOD: SCORING: 5, Pittsburgh, Lemieux(Murphy, Tocchet)1:42.
6, NJ Devils, Semak(Lemieux, Zelepukin)2:27.  7, Pittsburgh, McEachern
(Jagr, Barrasso)4:24.  8, NJD, Stevens(Guerin, Pellerin)5:45.  9,
Pittsburgh, Lemieux(unassisted)12:40shg.  10, NJ Devils, Richer
(Nicholls)15:53.  11, NJ Devils, Lemieux(Zelepukin)17:40.  PENALTIES:
PGH, Stevens(roughing)3:06.  NJD, McKay(roughing)3:06.  PGH, Mullen
(hooking)10:42.  PGH, Tocchet(roughing)12:06.  NJD, Stevens(slashing)
12:06.  NJD, Lemieux(unsportsmanlike conduct)12:40.  PGH, U.
Samuelsson(cross checking)20:00.  PGH, Barrasso-double minor(spearing)
served by McEachern, 20:00.  NJD, Holik(cross checking)20:00.  NJD,
Lemieux(roughing)20:00.
THIRD PERIOD: SCORING: 12, Pittsburgh, Mullen(Jagr, Lemieux)18:54.
PENALTIES: NJD, Daneyko(interference)3:37.  PGH, Stevens(roughing)
9:18.  NJD, Holik(roughing)9:18.  PGH, match penalty-game misconduct,9:50.
NJD, Zelepukin(tripping)12:01.  PGH, Stevens(roughing)18:41.  NJD,
Daneyko(roughing)18:41.
OVERTIME: SCORING: No scoring.  PENALTIES: No penalties.
SHOTS ON GOAL:
Pittsburgh: 9-11-8-2=30
NJ Devils: 12-15-9-3=39
GOALIES:
Barrasso(39 shots, 33 saves. 43-14-5)
Billington(30 shots, 24 saves)
REF: Devorski  Linesmen: Gauthier, Vines
Lori
Contact for the Penguins
lli+@cs.cmu.edu
From: jae2001@andy.bgsu.edu (Jason Ehas)
Subject: Re: Giveaways
Organization: Home of 1984 NCAA hockey champs
Lines: 43
In article <1qi44l$kqr@access.digex.net>, steveg@cadkey.com (Steve
Gallichio) wrote:
>
>
> John P. Curcio (jpc@philabs.philips.com) responded to my drivel:
>
> >steveg@cadkey.com (Steve Gallichio) writes:
> >
> >>I still am surprised that no one has tried giving away the goodies at the end
> >>of the game. The two problems with that, of course, are that you would want
> >>to make sure the first people in the building would be assured of getting
> >>them (probably redeemable vouchers), and that the building managers want to
> >>avoid at all costs delaying people as they leave the building, if, for
> >>instance, the goodies are given to people as they exit.
> >
> >I went to the New Jersey Devils/Carvel Ice Cream Puck Night (tm) last year to
> >see the beloved Bruins play.  The pucks were given out at the end of the game.
> >I could just imagine what would have happened late in the third if the Bruins
> >were winning....
>
> It figures, after I posted the first article, I found out that the Whalers are
> going to be using coupons for the the giveaway on Friday Night. I believe that
> is is the "Some Big Corporation (Probably a Bank) Flying Disk Night." I think
> that we could all see the potential for danger here...
>
> >|> All in all, I have seen a whole bunch of giveaways land on the ice, and it
> >|> never ceases to amuse me. I'm just thankful for the players that no one has
> >|> yet to sponsor 'Lead Pipe Night' at any arenas...
> >
> >That's probably because they couldn't find anyone to sponser it... Maybe USS
> >could sponser the Pittsburgh Penguins/US Steel Steel Rod Night-- close enough?
>
> Naah, it'd probably bounce off of Jay Caufield.
>
> -SG
I was at a Cincinnati Cyclones game a year ago when the local country
station sponsored a kazoo giveaway.  After a particularly bad call by the
underexperienced ECHL ref, it was Kazoostorm time down on the ice.  I
thought this was a pathetic display by the fans, but they were rightfully
unhappy.
Jason
From: ad215@Freenet.carleton.ca (Rachel Holme)
Subject: Re: Canucks clinch, Bure to score 20 playoff goals
Reply-To: ad215@Freenet.carleton.ca (Rachel Holme)
Organization: The National Capital Freenet
Lines: 21
In a previous article, steveg@cadkey.com (Steve Gallichio) says:
>
>Ron Apland (apland@mala.bc.ca) writes:
>> Quinn will resign as head coach (this is no secret) and HOPEFULLY they will
>> BRING IN someone who looks at the game spatially and institutes some team
>> disciplined play.  How about Keenan?  Give him what he wants, GM and Coach,
>> and have Quinn upstairs as president.
>
>I was under the impression that Rick Ley was in line for the Canucks job
>should Quinn step off the bench. Ley coached in the Canucks' organization
BRING BACK HARRY!  (NEALE)  At least he was witty...
--
ad215@freenet.carleton.ca (Rachel Holme)]
From: loh@fraser.sfu.ca (Keith Meng-Wei Loh)
Subject: Re: Hockey and the Hispanic community
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 27
rickc@wrigley.corp.sgi.com (Richard Casares) writes:
>In article <115331@bu.edu>, icop@csa.bu.edu (Antonio Pera) writes:
>|>
>|> 	The presence of the new team in Miami(I can't say South Florida;
>|> it's too long) makes me think of an interesting question. Can you sell
>|> the Hispanic community on Hockey? Miami is 60-70% Hispanic. This
>|> community
>|> has no experience and no previous exposure to Hockey that I know of.
>|> The
>|> teams in NY and LA which also have big Hispanic groups do not seem to
>|> try
>|> to woo this group. What will Miami do? Could they get Spanish-language
>|> tv and radio coverage?
>|>
>You'll have a hard time selling any sport to a community that
>can't play it on account of availability or financial reasons.
>Hockey is pretty much a sport for the white and well off.
Well, suffice to say that it is a sport for those able to make the
substantial investment in equipment, etc. But here's something, do
you think that the availability of in-line skates and road hockey
could contribute to a rise in awareness of ice hockey? I would
argue this is having an effect here. Kids play ice hockey in the
winter and road hockey in the summer with in-line skates.
From: tvartiai@vipunen.hut.fi (Tommi Vartiainen)
Subject: Re: Suhonen will NOT go to Jokerit
Keywords: Suhonen
Nntp-Posting-Host: vipunen.hut.fi
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Lines: 12
In <tvartiai.734823058@vipunen.hut.fi> tvartiai@vipunen.hut.fi (Tommi Vartiainen) writes:
>According to the inside information, Alpo Suhonen won't be the next headcoach
>of Jokerit. It's pretty sure that Boris Majorov will continue, although owner
>of the team previously said that he will chance the coach.
>Tommi
Wrong information. They just announced that Suhonen has made a deal with
Jokerit.
Tommi
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra)
Subject: Re: Mogilny must be benched.
Nntp-Posting-Host: stpl.ists.ca
Organization: Solar Terresterial Physics Laboratory, ISTS
Lines: 19
In article <wong.734890713@sfu.ca> wong@fraser.sfu.ca (Sam S. Wong) writes:
>> About 4 or 5 weeks ago I read in the Toronto Sun a quote from Alex; it
>> went something like [sarcastically]:
>> "Yep, Patty's the man.  He's responsible for the team's success...I'm a
>> nobody around here."
>How can you assume it was a sarcastic remark?
>For someone whose first language is not English, I would interpret
>that comment to mean that he believes Pat is the MVP on the team and that
>he is just one of the other normal players.  Quite modest I might say.
Well, I don't recall assuming anything, except perhaps that the columnist
who reported the incident was telling the truth i.e. the sarcastic impression
came from _him_ (Steve Simmons?).  Besides, to my knowledge Alex has a pretty
fair grasp of the English language...and his recent comment after the Detroit
game would indicate that this remark _is_ what I think it to be.  Very low.
dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca
From: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Nntp-Posting-Host: hudson.uvic.ca
Reply-To: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Lines: 38
In article 20009@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca, maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>In <1993Apr15.160450.27799@sol.UVic.CA> gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine) writes:
>>Gainey is the best defensive forward ever.  I stand by that assessment.
>>He was a very good player who belongs in the hall of fame.  Did you
>>ever watch him play? He never made a technical error.
>
>I watched him over his entire career.  I have NEVER seen a player, and that
>includes Russell Courtnall and Davie Keon, screw up as many breakaways as
>Bob Gainey.  And I will never forget the time Denis Potvin caught Gainey
>with his head down.  You have been sold a bill of goods on Bob Gainey.
>
>Gainey was a plugger.  And when the press runs out of things to say about
>the stars on dynasties they start to hype the pluggers.  Grant Fuhr, Essa
>Tikkannen, Butch Goring, Bob Nystrom, Bob Gainey, Doug Jarvis, Derek
>Sanderson, Wayne Cashman, Bob Baun, Bob Pulford, Ralph Backstrom, Henri
>Richard, Dick Duff...and so on...
These players all are pretty good players.  They are the depth that the
dynasties had to win Stanley Cups.  They tend to be the very good second
line guys- who would be first liners on most weaker clubs in the NHL.
They were all important to their clubs.  Probably, several of these
Stanley Cup winning teams would not have won the cups they did if it
were not for the depth provided by these players.
They compare to Rick Tocchet and Ron Francis of the Penguins.  Very good
players who can lead lesser teams (Francis-Hartford, Tocchet-Philly) who
provide the depth to the team that is currently best in the NHL.
As a defensive forward, there have been none better than Bob Gainey.  That
doesn't mean he was the best player (or even the best forward) the Canadians
had at that time, but he was excellent at what he did.  Gainey could
dominate games with his defence.  He didn't need to get goals to dominate.
He shut down the opposition and was thus valuable.  There has never been
anyone any better at doing this.  Not ever.
Gregmeister
From: horse@dead.duc.auburn.edu (John Horstman)
Subject: Re: Washington To Beat Pitt
Article-I.D.: news.1993Apr15.181531.26088
Reply-To: horse@dead.duc.auburn.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 38
Nntp-Posting-Host: dead.duc.auburn.edu
In article KKq@acsu.buffalo.edu, v128r82w@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Ralph L d'Ambrosio) writes:
>In article <1993Apr14.015415.10176@mprgate.mpr.ca>, tasallot@galaxy.mpr.ca (Mathew Tasalloti) writes...
>>
>>If the Penguins get out of the Patrick, they will win the
>>cup.  However, their hardest task is to get out of that division.
>>I'm sure that Washington will most definitly throw a rench into the
>>Penguin plans.  I'm a Canucks fan (not that I think much of their
>>chances this year), but it seems to me like Washington is the ONLY
>>team that can stop the Penguins from winning their next Stanley Cup.
>
>I was under the impression that the Penguins has had the Caps number for
>most of the season.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>=============================================******>>
>>
>>  Mathew Tasalloti
>>  MPR Teltech Ltd.
>>  Vancouver, BC, Canada
>>
>>              <<******==================================================
>********************************************************************************
>Of course no one asked me, I always interject my opinions on matters I have no
>concern over.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Go Islanders, Playoffs here we come
>Go Jets for '93
>********************************************************************************
And last year the Capitals had the Pens number up until about game 3 of the playoffs.
John Horstmann
From: grogers@slacvx.slac.stanford.edu (Greg Rogers)
Subject: Hockey on TV in the Bay area, NOT!
Reply-To: grogers@slacvx.slac.stanford.edu (Greg Rogers)
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Lines: 9
Hi all,
I don't get the sport's channel and I'm desparate for some playoff action
(especially the Cannucks).  Does anyone know of a sports bar on the Bay
Peninsula that will be showing hockey games.  I'm looking for something
between redwood City and Mountain View.
Thanks a lot,
Greg
From: gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak)
Subject: Goalie mask poll
Article-I.D.: hydra.93158
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 31
Here is an update on the Goalie mask poll...
First, since so many people gave me their 3 best, I decided to
give 3 pts for their favorite, 2 pts for 2nd, 1 for 3rd. If you e-mailed
a response with only one, I gave it 3 pts. Please feel free to send me
your 2 other favorites, if you only sent one before.
Also, votes are still welcome! Any mask you like will do, as I
have received votes for players not in the NHL. Please mention what team
they play for, though.
So here are the up-to-date results so far:
Player                 Team              Pts     Votes
-------------------------------------------------------
1. Ed Belfour          Chicago            8        4
Andy Moog           Boston             8        3
3. Curtis Joseph       St. Louis          5        2
4. Brian Hayward       San Jose           4        2
5. Grant Fuhr          Buffalo            3        1
Ron Hextall         Quebec             3        1
7. Clint Malarchuk     Buffalo            2        1
Manon Rheaume       Atlanta (IHL)      2        1
9. John Casey          Minnesota          1        1
Rick Wamsley        Toronto (retired)  1        1
Thanks to all that voted, and keep 'em coming!
--
GO SKINS!    ||"Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite
GO BRAVES!   ||   an effect on you?" - Mike Patton, Faith No More
GO HORNETS!  ||
GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Re: Washington To Beat Pitt
Article-I.D.: netnews.120664
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 32
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
In article <C5J59C.GED@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil> galvint@cs.nps.navy.mil (thomas galvin) writes:
>In article <93105.052120RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu> Robbie Po <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>>In article <1993Apr14.015415.10176@mprgate.mpr.ca>, tasallot@galaxy.mpr.ca
>>(Mathew Tasalloti) says:
>>>chances this year), but it seems to me like Washington is the ONLY
>>>team that can stop the Penguins from winning their next Stanley Cup.
>>
>>  Really? I think both the Islanders and Devils would have a better chance
>>at the Penguins than the Capitals, IMO.
>
>Really?  What makes you think the Islanders have a better shot?  They
>couldn't even beat the Whalers in two games!
Yes, but as has been mentioned many times before, the Islanders play at
the talent level of their opponent.  Since Hartford is pitiful, the
Islanders played pitiful.  Since Pittsburgh is great, the Isles will most
likely play great.  This is most likely due to inexperience and very poor
shooting.  To Greg: yes, I have noticed that the Islanders couldn't hit
the broad side of a barn with the puck if they were two feet in front of
it.  Does anyone have shooting percentages?  I don't know if that would
help, since they often miss the net completely, but it might shed some
light on the subject.
And, my playoff pool is running!!!  Exact rules to be posted tomorrow, but
don't hesitate to send in picks!!!
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Re: Goalie masks
Article-I.D.: netnews.120666
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 10
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
My vote goes to John Vanbiesbrouck.  His mask has a skyline of New York
City, and on the sides there are a bunch of bees (Beezer).  It looks
really sharp.
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
From: cbn7g@Virginia.EDU (Christopher Bass Nystrom)
Subject: Re: ESPN Tonight
Article-I.D.: Virginia.1993Apr15.215144.10182
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 11
swartzjh@RoseVC.Rose-Hulman.Edu writes:
> Has anyone heard what game ESPN is showing tonight.  They said they will
> show whatever game means the most playoff-wise. I would assume this would
> be the Blues-Tampa game or the Minnesota-Red Wings game...  Anyone heard for
> sure???
>
>
> 		Jeff Swartz
It's going to be the Stars - Wings game
From: sclark@epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Clark)
Subject: Who picks first?
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS
Nntp-Posting-Host: epas.utoronto.ca
Lines: 7
According to THE FAN here in T.O., Ottawa has won the Daigle e
sweepstakes.  They didn't mention why, but San Jose had more goals
than the Sen-sens, so I have a hunch this is why Ottawa would pick
first.....
Susan
From: 35002_2765@uwovax.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: Stop predicting
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Nntp-Posting-Host: hydra.uwo.ca
Lines: 17
In article <1993Apr16.060010.10012@ncsu.edu>, cdkaupan@eos.ncsu.edu (CARL DAVID KAUPANG) writes:
>
> It is really annoying to see all of these
> predictions on the Net.  Who really cares
> who you think will win?  Please stop with
> the predictions, we all know the Caps are
> going to win the Cup, so let it go at that.
>
>
In the words of Doktor Kultur, in the Ottawa Citizen,
"Remember to unhook the Nitrous Oxide before you leave
the Dentist Chair!"  8^)
GO JETS (for once, in the playoffs, please, I beg of you...)
Paul Badertscher
35002_2765@uwovax.uwo.ca
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Stan Fischler, 4/16 (Keenan stuff!)
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 16
In article <1993Apr17.015225.29031@news.columbia.edu> gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>
>* The Oilers will charge to eat in the Press Room next year.
>
There was an article in one of the Toronto papers about this a few
months ago...probably the Globe and Mail...
...any ethical "journalist", even a sports journalist should not
accept free meals from a team in any case, which was the one of
the points the article was making.
Admittdly, most sports reporting is mostly with any ethical
standards...
Gerald
From: apland@mala.bc.ca (Ron Apland)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Organization: Malaspina College
Lines: 24
In article <1993Apr16.222846.17764@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
> It is meaningless to compare one player's plus/minus statistic with
> another players' out of the context of the role and the playing time
> of the players involved.
It's just as meaningless to compare goals, assists, PIM and any other stat I
can think of.  Each player is asked to take a unique role for his team.  The
contexts will never be the same from one player to another playing on the
same team or different teams.  And yet ... awards are given and promotions
received based in part on these meaningless stats.  The operative words are
"in part" - stats must be interpreted, tempered with other information one
has about the player.
> To compare Jagr's and Francis's plus/minus is ridiculous and absurd...
And comparing Jagr's and Francis's points is just as ridiculous and absurd...
but not more ridiculous and absurd as comparing goals, assists, points, +\-
for Selanne, Lindros, Juneau, Potvin, and the other rookies in the league...
and yet...
How about looking at them for what they are and enjoy the game.
Ron
From: "James J. Murawski" <jjm+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: This Year's vs. Next Year's Playoffs
Organization: Administrative Computing & Info Services, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 37
NNTP-Posting-Host: po2.andrew.cmu.edu
Well, since someone probably wanted to know, here's this year's playoff
matchups on the left, and what the matchups would be next year under the
new alignment and playoff-matchup rules.  The same 16 teams make the playoffs
under next year's rules, and three of the first round matchups are the same
(QUE-MTL, CHI-STL, VAN-WIN).
PIT --+                      +-- CHI | PIT --+                      +-- CHI
+---+              +---+       |       +---+              +---+
NJ  --+   |              |   +-- STL | BUF --+   |              |   +-- STL
+---+      +---+           |           +---+      +---+
WAS --+   |   |      |   |   +-- DET | QUE --+   |   |      |   |   +-- TOR
+---+   |      |   +---+       |       +---+   |      |   +---+
NYI --+       |      |       +-- TOR | MTL --+       |      |       +-- CAL
+------+               |               +------+
BOS --+       |      |       +-- VAN | WAS --+       |      |       +-- VAN
+---+   |      |   +---+       |       +---+   |      |   +---+
BUF --+   |   |      |   |   +-- WIN | NJ  --+   |   |      |   |   +-- WIN
+---+      +---+           |           +---+      +---+
QUE --+   |              |   +-- CAL | BOS --+   |              |   +-- DET
+---+              +---+       |       +---+              +---+
MTL --+                      +-- LA  | NYI --+                      +-- LA
====================================================================
Jim Murawski
Sr. Software Engineer               (412) 268-2650  [office]
Administrative Computing and        (412) 268-6868  [fax]
Information Services           jjm+@andrew.cmu.edu
Carnegie Mellon University          Office: UCC 155
4910 Forbes Avenue
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890
"Le Mieux!  Le Magnifique!  Soixante Six!  Claude...NON!"
There are 1374 days until Clinton (Clinocchio) leaves office (1373 too many).
From: seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr)
Subject: FLYERS notes 4/17
Organization: AT&T
Keywords: FLYERS/Whalers summary
Lines: 200
The FLYERS closed out the season last night with their 8th straight victory,
a 5-4 OT winner over the Hartford Whalers. The OT game winner came from Dimitri
Yushkevich, just his 5th of the season and his first game winner. The FLYERS
never led up until that point in the game. For the Whalers, the loss marked an
NHL record 9th OT loss this season.
Roster move:
Gord Hynes was called to to play in place of Ryan McGill
Injuries:
Ryan McGill injured his hand in a fight 4/15 and was scratched.
Lines:
Eklund-Lindros-Recchi
Beranek-Brind'Amour-Dineen
Lomakin-Butsayev-Conroy
Faust-Acton-Brown
Galley-Bowen
Yushkevich-Hawgood
Carkner-Hynes
Dominic Roussel
Game Summary:
I didn't get TV coverage of the game, and since it was stormy in these parts
I didn't have the best radio coverage either. Here's the box score followed by
a few things I did pick up:
First Period:
Hartford, Nylander 10, 8:51
Philadelphia, Recchi 53 (Lindros, Brind'Amour), 19:59.8 (pp)
Penalties - Verbeek, Har (holding), :55; Carkner, Phi (roughing), 13:53; Houda,
Har (interference) 18:43
Second Period:
Hartford, Burt 6 (Cunneyworth, Kron), 2:00
Philadelphia, Bowen 1 (Eklund, Recchi), 7:09
Hartford, Nylander 11 (Zalapski, Sanderson), 9:38
Penalties - Galley, Phi, major-game misconduct (spearing) :58; Verbeek, Har
major-game misconduct (spearing), :58; Brown, Phi (tripping), 3:22; Zalapski,
Har (tripping), 15:51; Brind'Amour, Phi (slashing), 19:50
Third Period:
Hartford, Kron 14 (Sanderson, Cassels), 1:24 (pp)
Philadelphia, Beranek 15 (Lomakin, Yushkevich), 3:11
Philadelphia, Faust 2 (Brind'Amour, Roussel), 3:38
Penalties - Houda, Har (tripping), 4:20; Hawgood, Phi (holding), 5:30
Overtime:
Philadelphia, Yushkevich 5 (Faust), 1:15.
Penalties - None
Power Play:
Philadelphia 1 of 4, Hartford 1 of 4
Goalies:
Philadelphia, Roussel 14-11-5 (30 shots - 26 saves)
Hartford, Lenarduzzi, 1-1-1 (38 - 33)
On the first Hartford goal, Gord Hynes misplayed the puck at the FLYERS blue
line and Nylander stripped him and took off.
The Recchi goal was a 2 on 1 with Lindros.
The Bowen goal was just a puck he threw at the net, got a good carom and it
ended up behind the goalie.
On the second Nylander goal he got three whacks at the puck before it went in.
This is the most frustrating part of the FLYERS defense. Take the body, and if
they get one shot and beat you fine. Don't give them another chance. Carkner,
Galley and McGill are all terrible about this, I'll bet money at least one of
them was the closest FLYER to the play.
That's all I have, my radio got bad after that and I was lucky to know who it
was that scored, much less how.
From what I heard, Roussel had a very strong game. After the game, Gene Hart
asked Bobby Taylor to pick the three stars of the season rather than of the
game. It was Garry Galley #3 for his career high point total (I'm surprised
that a former goalie wouldn't look closer at his defensive play), Tommy
Soderstrom #2 for his team record tying 5 shutouts in only about 1/2 a season
and, Mark Recchi #1 for his all time high team single season scoring mark.
But here's the odd part. He couldn't decide between Lindros and Recchi for
number 1. If he picks Recchi as #1 after he had a hard time choosing between
him and Lindros, doesn't that make Lindros #2????
What? You wanna know my three stars of the season? Well, since you asked...
#1 Eric Lindros. Eric dominates a game simply by stepping out onto the ice.
The difference between the team's record with him and without him is no
accident. I believe that the team could have been almost as successful without
Recchi. There is no question that this team is significantly better with Eric
Lindros on it, and I think that he will deservedly wear the 'C' on his jersey
next season.
#2 Tommy Soderstrom. 5 shutouts was second in the league to only Ed Belfour,
and Tommy didn't have a Chris Chelios (booo) in front of him. He also didn't
play a complete season due to heart problems (sentimental edge here, my family
has a history of heart problems). There's no question in my mind that Tommy
Soderstrom is this teams goalie of the future, and if Roussel complains again
about being number 2 look for him to be traded within 2 years.
#3 Mark Recchi. Again, you can't argue with an all-time team high single season
scoring mark. There are an awful lot of teams that didn't have a single player
get as many points. Plus, Mark is the only FLYER to play the entire season.
Not a tough choice.
Honorable mentions: Rod Brind'Amour topped his single season high point total
which he set last year. The difference was that he wasn't on the top line
this year and didn't get as much playing time. Then again, he didn't get the
defensive attention that he got last year from the other team either.
Dimtri Yushkevich was the teams most consistent defenseman. Yes, he made rookie
mistakes, but he was usually fast enough to make up for them. I have a feeling
that with his shot he'll score a few more points next year without giving up
anything in his own zone, and I suspect that he'll be the teams top defenseman
in years to come.
Garry Galley was the team's point leader from defensemen. Again, there are some
things you just can't argue with. And he battled with chronic fatigue syndrome,
he certainly deserves kudos for only missing one game, and that was against his
wishes under doctors orders. But his defensive play often negates his offensive
contribution. A little more caution, and a little bit smarter in his own end
will make him a much more important part of the team next year.
Brent Fedyk was the leagues biggest improvement over last years point total.
But consistency became a problem for him.
A couple misc notes mostly for mailing list members:
Tom Misnik, a member of the mailing list, would like to exchange E-mail
addresses with any list members who want to keep in touch over the summer.
If you're interested, you can send him mail at:
att!ACR.ORG!TMISNIK
The FLYERS end the season 1 game below .500 in 5th place, their best winning
percentage since going .500 in 1988-89. 14-20-3 within the division (4th in
Patrick), 23-14-5 at home. They finished 17th overall, will draft 10th in
next years entry draft (Quebec had the 1st rounder, though). They scored as
many goals as they allowed, 319.
The 8 straight wins is the most since they won 13 in a row in 1985.
I will be sending out final stats as soon as I get the issue of the Hockey
News that contains them, since there are no more games for me to go to I have
no other way of getting them.
I hope you've all enjoyed this years hockey season as much as I have. Knowing
the future that we have coming to us made missing the playoffs one more time
almost bearable.
FLYERS team record watch:
Eric Lindros:
41 goals, 34 assists, 75 points
(rookie records)
club record goals:			club record points:
Eric Lindros	40 1992-93		Dave Poulin	76 1983-84
Brian Propp	34 1979-80		Brian Propp	75 1979-80
Ron Flockhart	33 1981-82		Eric Lindros	75 1992-93
Dave Poulin	31 1983-84		Ron Flockhart	72 1981-82
Bill Barber	30 1972-73		Pelle Eklund	66 1985-86
Mark Recchi:
53 goals, 70 assists, 123 points.
club record goals:			club record points:
Reggie Leach	61 1975-76		Mark Recchi	123 1992-93*
Tim Kerr	58 1985-86,86-87	Bobby Clarke	119 1975-76
Tim Kerr	54 1983-84,84-85	Bobby Clarke	116 1974-75
Mark Recchi	53 1992-93*		Bill Barber	112 1975-76
Rick Macliesh	50 1972-73		Bobby Clarke	104 1972-73
Bill Barber	50 1975-76		Rick Macliesh	100 1972-73
Reggie Leach	50 1979-80
*More than 80 games.
FLYERS career years:
Player		Points	Best Prior Season
Mark Recchi	123	113 (90-91 Penguins)
Rod Brind'Amour	86	77 (91-92 FLYERS)
Garry Galley	62	38 (84-85 Kings)
Brent Fedyk	59	35 (90-91 Red Wings)
That's all for now...
pete clark jr - rsh FLYERS contact and mailing list owner
From: 06paul@ac.dal.ca
Subject: My Predictions of a classic playoff year!
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Lines: 73
Here is yet another prediction for them great playoffs!
(you may laugh at your convenience!) :)
Adams Division (I hate the NE (name) divisoin!!!)
BOS vs BUF   BOS in 5  (the B's are hot lately!)
MON vs QUE   MON in 7  (This will be the series to watch in the first round!)
BOS vs MON   MON in 7  (this may be a bit biased but I feel the Canadiens will
(smarten up and start playing they played two months ago
( i.e. bench Savard !!!)
Patrick Division
PIT vs NJD   PIT in 6  (It wont be a complete cake walk... there be a few lumps
(in the cake batter!)
WAS vs NYI   WAS in 6  	(This will not be an exciting series..IMO)
PITT vs WAS  PIT in 4   (Washington will be tired after the NYI)
Norris Division
CHI vs StL    CHI in 5   (StL will get a lucky game in)
TOR vs DET    TOR in 7   (THis , like MON vs QUE, will be another intense
(series to watch!)
CHI vs TOR    TOR in 7   (Potvin will be settling in nicely by this point.)
Smythe Division
VAN vs WIN     VAN in 5  (Teemu is great, but Vancouver better as a team!)
CAL vs LAK     CAL in 6  (Gretzky is great, but Calgary has been on fire lately)
...sorry for the pun... um, no I am not! :)
VAN vs CAL     VAN in 6  (This will be a great series! but VAN has proven they
(Will not lie down and get beat!)
Wales Conference finals
Pittsburgh vs Montreal    	Montreal in 6 (Montreal IMHO is the only team
(that has a chance against
Pittsburgh.)
Campbell Conference finals
Vancouver vs Toronto		Toronto in 6  (Potvin will be series MVP)
STANLEY CUP FINALS
Toronto Maple Leafs    vs    Montreal Canadiens
(The Classic Stanley Cup Final matchup!!) <---also a dream come true!
Montreal wins the Stanley cup in the 7th game 1 - 0 in double overtime.
Roy and Potvin are spectacular throughout the series and share series MVP (if
that is possible) Vincent Damphouse nets game winner from a brilliant pass by
Brian Bellows! Canadiens star(?) Denis Savard watched his buddies play from the
owners box nursing that splinter on his thumb which has left him on the
disabled list since the first game of the playoffs (awww shucks).
***************************************YEE HAA!!*******************************
*poof* And I wake up :)
Well that is my predictions...I hope and dream they come true. and you can stop
laughing anytime :)
Paul
Die hard Habs Fan living with
3 Die hard Leafs fans!
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy)
Subject: AHL playoff results, 4/16
Nntp-Posting-Host: craft.clarkson.edu
Organization: Clarkson University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Lines: 96
AHL CALDER CUP PLAYOFF GAME(S) PLAYED ON 4/16
Providence 3	SPRINGFIELD 2	(OT)
Baltimore 4	BINGHAMTON 3
Utica 3		ROCHESTER 2	(OT)
Cape Breton 5	FREDERICTON 2
GAME(S) SCHEDULED FOR 4/17
Capital District at Adirondack
Providence at Springfield
Baltimore at Binghamton
Utica at Rochester
Moncton vs St John's at Halifax
SERIES STATI (plural of status? :)
Adirondack leads CDI, 1-0
Springfield leads Providence, 2-1
Baltimore leads Binghamton 1-0
Utica leads Rochester, 1-0
St John's leads Moncton, 1-0
Cape Breton tied w/Fredericton, 1-1
=================================================
=================================================
FULL 1993 CALDER CUP PLAYOFF SCHEDULE AND RESULTS
home team in CAPS		*=if necesary
FIRST ROUND
Springfield Indians vs Providence Bruins
Gm 1:	Springfield 3	PROVIDENCE 2
Gm 2:	Springfield 5	PROVIDENCE 4
Gm 3:	Providence 3	SPRINGFIELD 2
Gm 4:	4/17	Providence at Springfield
Gm 5:	4/22	Springfield at Providence
Gm 6:	4/24	Providence at Springfield	*
Gm 7:	4/27	Springfield at Providence	*
CD Islanders vs Adirondack Red Wings
Gm 1:	ADIRONDACK 6	CDI 2
Gm 2:	4/17	CDI at Adirondack
Gm 3:	4/18	Adirondack at CDI
Gm 4:	4/21	Adirondack at CDI
Gm 5:	4/23	CDI at Adirondack	*
Gm 6:	4/24	Adirondack at CDI	*
Gm 7:	4/26	CDI at Adirondack	*
Baltimore Skipjacks at Binghamton Rangers
Gm 1:	Baltimore 4	BINGHAMTON 3
Gm 2:	4/17	Baltimore at Binghamton
Gm 3:	4/23	Binghamton at Baltimore
Gm 4:	4/24	Binghamton at Baltimore
Gm 5:	4/26	Baltimore at Binghamton	*
Gm 6:	4/28	Binghmaton at Baltimore	*
Gm 7:	4/30	Baltimore at Binghamton	*
Utica Devils vs Rochester Americans
Gm 1:	Utica 3		Rochester 2	(OT)
Gm 2:	4/17	Utica at Rochester
Gm 3:	4/20	Rochester at Utica
Gm 4:	4/22	Rochester at Utica
Gm 5:	4/24	Utica at Rochester	*
Gm 6:	4/26	Rochester at Utica	*
Gm 7:	4/28	Utica at Rochester	*
Moncton Hawks vs St John's Maple Leafs
Gm 1:	St John's 4	Moncton 2
Gm 2:	4/17	Moncton vs St John's at Halifax
Gm 3:	4/21	St John's at Moncton
Gm 4:	4/23	St John's at Moncton
Gm 5:	4/26	Moncton vs St John's at Halifax	*
Gm 6:	4/28	St John's at Moncton		*
Gm 7:	4/30	Moncton vs St John's at Halifax	*
Cape Breton Oilers vs Fredericton Canadiens
Gm 1:	FREDERICTON 4	Cape Breton 3	(2OT)
Gm 2:	Cape Breton 5	FREDERICTON 2
Gm 3:	4/20	Fredericton at Cape Breton
Gm 4:	4/22	Fredericton at Cape Breton
Gm 5:	4/24	Cape Breton at Fredericton
Gm 6:	4/26	Fredericton at Cape Breton	*
Gm 7:	4/28	Cape Breton at Fredericton	*
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Bri Farenell			farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu   +
+ AHL and ECAC contact for rec.sport.hockey		Go USA Hockey!	   +
+ Adirondack Red Wings, Calder Cup Champs: '81  '86  '89  '92	   +
+ Clarkson Hockey, ECAC Tournament Champs: '66  '91  '93		   +
+ Glens Falls High Hockey, NY Division II State Champs: '90  '91       +
+ AHL fans: join the AHL mailing list: ahl-news-request@andrew.cmu.edu +
+ CONGRATS TO THE BOSTON BRUINS, 1992-93 ADAMS DIVISION CHAMPIONS      +
+ PHOENIX SUNS, 1992-93 PACIFIC DIVISION CHAMPIONS			   +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: downec@crockett1a.its.rpi.edu (Christopher Stevan Downey)
Subject: Re: This Year's vs. Next Year's Playoffs
Nntp-Posting-Host: crockett1a.its.rpi.edu
Reply-To: downec@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Lines: 29
Let's fill in some winners here:
|>
|> Well, since someone probably wanted to know, here's this year's playoff
|> matchups on the left, and what the matchups would be next year under the
|> new alignment and playoff-matchup rules.  The same 16 teams make the playoffs
|> under next year's rules, and three of the first round matchups are the same
|> (QUE-MTL, CHI-STL, VAN-WIN).
|>
|> PIT --+                      +-- CHI | PIT --+                      +-- CHI
|>       +PIT+              +CHI+       |       +---+              +---+
|> NJ  --+   |              |   +-- STL | BUF --+   |              |   +-- STL
|>           +NYI+      +DET+           |           +---+      +---+
|> WAS --+   |   |      |   |   +-- DET | QUE --+   |   |      |   |   +-- TOR
|>       +NYI+   |      |   +DET+       |       +---+   |      |   +---+
|> NYI --+       | *BOS*|       +-- TOR | MTL --+       |      |       +-- CAL
|>               +------+               |               +------+
|> BOS --+       |  DET |       +-- VAN | WAS --+       |      |       +-- VAN
|>       +BOS+   |      |   +VAN+       |       +---+   |      |   +---+
|> BUF --+   |   |      |   |   +-- WIN | NJ  --+   |   |      |   |   +-- WIN
|>           +BOS+      +VAN+           |           +---+      +---+
|> QUE --+   |              |   +-- CAL | BOS --+   |              |   +-- DET
|>       +QUE+              +CAL+       |       +---+              +---+
|> MTL --+                      +-- LA  | NYI --+                      +-- LA
|>
Just my thoughts,
Chris
downec@rpi.edu
From: downec@crockett1a.its.rpi.edu (Christopher Stevan Downey)
Subject: Re: My Predictions of a classic playoff year!
Nntp-Posting-Host: crockett1a.its.rpi.edu
Reply-To: downec@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Lines: 82
In article <1993Apr17.152611.12934@ac.dal.ca>, 06paul@ac.dal.ca writes:
|> Here is yet another prediction for them great playoffs!
|> (you may laugh at your convenience!) :)
|>
|> 	Adams Division (I hate the NE (name) divisoin!!!)
|>
|> BOS vs BUF   BOS in 5  (the B's are hot lately!)
|>
|> MON vs QUE   MON in 7  (This will be the series to watch in the first round!)
|>
|>
|> BOS vs MON   MON in 7  (this may be a bit biased but I feel the Canadiens will
|> 		       (smarten up and start playing they played two months ago
|> 			( i.e. bench Savard !!!)
|> 	Patrick Division
|>
|> PIT vs NJD   PIT in 6  (It wont be a complete cake walk... there be a few lumps
|> 			(in the cake batter!)
|>
|> WAS vs NYI   WAS in 6  	(This will not be an exciting series..IMO)
|>
|>
|> PITT vs WAS  PIT in 4   (Washington will be tired after the NYI)
|>
|> 	Norris Division
|>
|> CHI vs StL    CHI in 5   (StL will get a lucky game in)
|>
|> TOR vs DET    TOR in 7   (THis , like MON vs QUE, will be another intense
|> 			 (series to watch!)
|>
|> CHI vs TOR    TOR in 7   (Potvin will be settling in nicely by this point.)
|>
|> 	Smythe Division
|>
|> VAN vs WIN     VAN in 5  (Teemu is great, but Vancouver better as a team!)
|>
|> CAL vs LAK     CAL in 6  (Gretzky is great, but Calgary has been on fire lately)
|> 				...sorry for the pun... um, no I am not! :)
|>
|> VAN vs CAL     VAN in 6  (This will be a great series! but VAN has proven they
|> 			 (Will not lie down and get beat!)
|>
|> 	Wales Conference finals
|>
|> Pittsburgh vs Montreal    	Montreal in 6 (Montreal IMHO is the only team
|> 					      (that has a chance against
|> 						Pittsburgh.)
|>
|> 	Campbell Conference finals
|>
|> Vancouver vs Toronto		Toronto in 6  (Potvin will be series MVP)
|>
|>
|> 	STANLEY CUP FINALS
|>
|> Toronto Maple Leafs    vs    Montreal Canadiens
|> 	(The Classic Stanley Cup Final matchup!!) <---also a dream come true!
|>
|> 	Montreal wins the Stanley cup in the 7th game 1 - 0 in double overtime.
|> Roy and Potvin are spectacular throughout the series and share series MVP (if
|> that is possible) Vincent Damphouse nets game winner from a brilliant pass by
|> Brian Bellows! Canadiens star(?) Denis Savard watched his buddies play from the
|> owners box nursing that splinter on his thumb which has left him on the
|> disabled list since the first game of the playoffs (awww shucks).
|>
|> ***************************************YEE HAA!!*******************************
|> *poof* And I wake up :)
|> Well that is my predictions...I hope and dream they come true. and you can stop
|> laughing anytime :)
|>
|> 							Paul
|> 						Die hard Habs Fan living with
|> 						3 Die hard Leafs fans!
I only have one comment on this:  You call this a *classic* playoff year
and yet you don't include a Chicago-Detroit series.  C'mon, I'm a Boston
fan and I even realize that Chicago-Detroit games are THE most exciting
games to watch.
Chris
downec@rpi.edu
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Re: Who picks first?
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 9
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
Ottawa picks first, because they had fewer wins during the season, the
first tiebreaker.
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
From: jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (Jason Hanson)
Subject: Re: NHL team in Milwaukee
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Lines: 42
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: NHL team in Milwaukee
Summary:
Expires:
Sender:
Distribution:
Organization: Marquette University - Department MSCS
Keywords:
In article <1993Apr16.131843.24012@walter.cray.com> cbetz@radioman.cray.com (Charles Betz  {x66442 CF/ENG}) writes:
>
>Bradley Center in Milwaukee is home to the Milwaukee Admirals minor leauge
>hockey team.  The owner of the Admirals (sorry, I can't remember his name)
>either owns or at least shelled out the majority of the funds to build the
>Bradley Center.
Lloyd Pettit married into Allen-Bradley Corp. (ab.com) family and owns the
Admirals.  He donated the Bradley Center and the new Pettit National Ice
Center.
>Supposedly he was approached by the NHL about an expansion franchise, but
>turned it down because he thought the franchise fee of $50 million was too
>high.
This is not the way I have heard it.  See, Lloyd (as he is affectionately
referred to by Milwaukeeans and Bob Uecker) bought the Bradley Center *TO* get
the NHL to come here.
>Like I said, I don't know whether this story is true or just a rumor, but if
>it's true, don't look for an NHL team in Milwaukee anytime soon.  The Admirals
>aren't going to be forced out of the building and you won't see an NHL club
>and a minor league club in the same building, especially since the NBA's
>Milwaukee Bucks play there as well.
Yeah, the Bucks, the Milwaukee Wave (soccer), the Admirals, the Marquette
Warriors, concerts and a bunch of other things...
--
Jason Hanson         |  915 W. Wisconsin Ave #1010  |  (414) 288-2179
Marquette University |   Milwaukee, WI 53233-2373   |  Ham Radio: N9LEA/AE
--  jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu    ==+==    n9lea@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na  --
From: mep@phoenix.oulu.fi (Marko Poutiainen)
Subject: Re: Finland/Sweden vs.NHL teams (WAS:Helsinki/Stockholm & NH
Organization: University of Oulu, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Lines: 24
: you mention could cut it as stars in the NHL! Even "Rexi" in his prime was more
: of a good regular in New York/Edmonton than a superstar in his own right,
: although some blamed that on lack of effort on his behalf.
:
I think that the NY management made a mistake, and remember how Edmonton
called Reksa in the middle of the season to win the cup ? Why did they call
him?
: Yeah, we've had a tendency to beat ourselves in the past. I almost knifed my
: brother in anger when Sweden scored two in the final minute of the WC
: semifinals back in 1986:-) Or what about the three goals Antero Kivela let in
: with five minutes to go against the Russkies in Lake Placid'80? Ugh . . .
O.K., that was BAD luck. If Penguins have the same kind of luck this year in
the playoffs, they'll never win the cup. They are still the best team.
--
***********************************************************************
* 'Howl howl gargle howl gargle howl howl howl gargle howl gargle howl*
*  howl gargle gargle howl gargle gargle gargle howl slurrp uuuurgh'  *
*                                       -Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz       *
***********************************************************************
-Marko Poutiainen
mep@phoenix.oulu.fi
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Playoff pool
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 30
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
Well, I looked at the scoring plan I had, and have decided to modify it.
Here is the new, finalized scoring:
Pick 1st round winner, way off on games:	2
"     "    "     "     pick within one game:	3
"     "    "     "     pick exact games:	4
Pick 2nd round winner, way off on games:	4
"     "    "     "     pick within one game:	5
"     "    "     "     pick exact games:	7
Pick conference champ, way off on games:	7
"	"	"      pick within one game:	10
"	"	"      pick exact games:	13
Pick Stanley Cup winner, way off on games:	13
"	"    "	   "	pick within one game:	17
"	"    "	   "	pick exact games:	20
Pick loser in 7, series goes 7:			2
Pick loser in 7, game 7 decided in OT:		4
These are now final.  Anyone needing a copy of the entry sheet, email me
at the address below.
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
From: cobra@ravel.udel.edu (KING COBRA)
Subject: Re: NHLPA poll (partial stats/results)
Nntp-Posting-Host: ravel.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Lines: 26
In article <ofnmaO_00iV1A6kYd2@andrew.cmu.edu> Young-Soo Che <yc25+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>All these people who send in their polls should take a closer look at
>NJD, they are a very deep team, with two very capable goalies, and
>excellent forwards and defensemen.  Shooter in Richer, an all around do
>it all in Todd, chef Stasny-master of a thousand dishes, power play
>captain-Stevens.  Take a look at the numbers, or play with them and see
>for yourselves.
Yup. I agree with ya. I think Devils can beat Red Wings easily. SO I think
all those who send in their votes should try all these diffrent teams
before voting. I think Islanders and Quebec are much better then I had
expected.
COBRA
*******************************************************************************
**   ___  ____  ____  ____  ____  **                                         **
**  /    /   / /___/ /___/ /___/  **   Sex is not the answer, sex is the     **
** /___ /___/ /___/ / \_  /   /   **   question. Yes is the answer.          **
**                                **                                         **
** E-mail: cobra@chopin.udel.edu  **                                         **
**                                **                                         **
*******************************************************************************
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Finland/Sweden vs.NHL teams (WAS:Helsinki/Stockholm & NH
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 23
In article <1993Apr17.170255.23800@abo.fi> MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF) writes:
>
>Jutila was a failure, I think, while Makela (and Ari Haanpaa) had an
>on-again/off-again career with the Islanders. Both players had to play in the
>minors. Of course I "like" our players, I just don't think the names
>you mention could cut it as stars in the NHL! Even "Rexi" in his prime was more
>of a good regular in New York/Edmonton than a superstar in his own right,
>although some blamed that on lack of effort on his behalf.
>
Ruotsaleinen was a more than competent NHL'er...his choice of where
to play when did not bear on his hockey playing ability.
He was crucial to the Oilers Stanley Cup victory in 1990, the one
without Gretzky, because he made an Oiler power play which was
lethargic that year until he arrived slide into overdrive.  The
Oilers missed him more the following year than Kurri, and I think
the Oilers would have make the finals if Ruotsaleinen has stayed
around the following season, and would have beaten Pittsburgh
with Ruotsaleinen and a healthy Messier...and delayed Pittsburgh's
dynasty by a season.
Gerald
From: kerney@ecn.purdue.edu (John Kerney)
Subject: Re: FLYERS notes 4/17
Keywords: FLYERS/Whalers summary
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Lines: 17
Could someone post the Flyers record with and without Eric Lindros in
the lineup
I have a guy that is trying to compare the Quebec/Flyers trade to the
Dallas/Minnesota trade in the NFL(Hershel Walker)
I just need the stat to back up my point that Eric will be one of the next
great players
thanks
john
From: Derek_Juntunen@abcd.houghton.mi.us (Derek Juntunen)
Subject: Who will be #1 pick in NHL draft?
Distribution: world
Organization: Amiga BitSwap Central Dispatch
Lines: 8
I recently bought a pack of prospect hockey cards which had various
players that were coming into the NHL. I got this particular card of
a Russian named Viktor Kozlov. It says "many scouts believe he will
be the #1 pick in 1993". Another guy is quoted as saying "He's as
good as Mario Lemieux". Anyone know who this guy is?????
-- Via DLG Pro v0.995
From: j3david@sms.business.uwo.ca (James David)
Subject: Plus minus stat
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Nntp-Posting-Host: sms.business.uwo.ca
Lines: 26
>Post: 51246 of 51422
>Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
>From: j3david@sms.business.uwo.ca (James David)
>Subject: Plus minus stat
>Organization: University of Western Ontario
>Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 04:42:11 GMT
>Nntp-Posting-Host: sms.business.uwo.ca
>Lines: 165
>I'm not defending Bob Gainey...frankly, I don't care for him all
>that much.  But your dismissal of him as something less than an
>effective hockey player is tiresome...it has no basis in
>anything.  How many Calders did he win? I think it was four (go
^^^^^^^
Ooops...that should read Selke...forgive me for my insolence.
congenially, as always,
jd
--
James David
j3david@student.business.uwo.ca
j3david@sms.business.uwo.ca (James David)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
From: mdell+@pitt.edu (Michael G Dellinger)
Subject: Re: Stop predicting
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Lines: 36
In article <1993Apr16.233148.9711@rose.com> jack.petrilli@rose.com (jack petrilli) writes:
>On April 16,  cdkaupan@eos.ncsu.edu (CARL DAVID KAUPANG) wrote:
>
>C(--> It is really annoying to see all of these
>C(--> predictions on the Net.  Who really cares
>C(--> who you think will win?  Please stop with
>C(--> the predictions, we all know the Caps are
>C(--> going to win the Cup, so let it go at that.
>C(-->
>
>Haa!!! That's one of the things I find **most** interesting in this
>newsgroup. It's a good way of cluing into the "collective wisdom" of
>the average hockey fans. That doesn't mean they're always right,
>however. For example, the Habs are going to come out of the Adams and
>hardly anyone believes that right now.
>
>- Jack
>
> * It's hard to be humble when you're perfect.
Well, as long as we're being unduly cocky here, It's obvious that the Pens
will cone out of the Patrick Division *not* the Caps, and also that
they will win thier third Stanley Cup. "Collective Wisdom" is a very polite
way of putting it, I don't know if I'd be so gracious.
And, for what it's worth (Probably not much) I think the Habs will come out of
the Adams too.
Not new, Long absent,
Mikey D.
__
*****************************************************************************
Mike Dellinger
Computer Lab Consultant
Sutherland Hall Computer Lab and Grill
University of Pittsburgh
****************************************************************************
From: icop@csa.bu.edu (Antonio Pera)
Subject: Hockey & Hispanic market
Distribution: na
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Lines: 10
Originator: icop@csa
In article <saross01.734885336@starbase.spd.louisville.edu>, saross01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (Stacey A. Ross) writes:
|> In <C5I2s2.3Bt@odin.corp.sgi.com> rickc@wrigley.corp.sgi.com (Richard Casares) writes:
|> >You'll have a hard time selling any sport to a community that
|> >can't play it on account of availability or financial reasons.
|> >Hockey is pretty much a sport for the white and well off.
What is this crap? I'm only interested in intelligent discussion. If you
can't answer my question, just say so. Can anyone else answer the ques.?
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: hawks vs leafs lastnight
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Distribution: na
Lines: 15
In article <93106.082502ACPS6992@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca> Raj Ramnarace <ACPS6992@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca> writes:
>did anyone else see this game last night ? just like a playoff game!!
>lots of hitting...but I was disappointed by the video goal judge...
>on all replays, joe murphy's goal shouldn't have counted ! it didn't go in net
>!! and according to the tsn broadcasters, the video goal judge said that he
>saw the water bottle on top of the cage move so he assumed the puck went in!
>this is terrible...hope crap like this doesn't occur in the playoffs!
>the game would have ended in 2-2 tie !
I thought the red light went on...thus, in the review, the presumption
would be to find conclusive evidence that the puck did not go in the
net...from the replays I say, even from the rear, the evidence wasn't
conclusive that the puck was in or out...in my opinion...
Gerald
From: ndallen@r-node.hub.org (Nigel Allen)
Subject: Brown University Ordered To Restore Two Women's Varsity Teams
Organization: R-node Public Access Unix - 1 416 249 5366
Lines: 49
I found this press release from Trial Lawyers for Public Justice on
another system, and thought it would be of interest on campuses
where the administration or the athletics department wants to
eliminate the women's ice hockey team.
Women Athletes, TLP Win Sex Discrimination Ruling: Brown University
Ordered to Restore Two Women's Varsity Teams
To: National Desk, Sports Writer
Contact: Lynette Labinger, 401-421-9794, home 401-274-7507, or
Ray Marcaccio, 401-831-8900, both of Trial Lawyers For
Public Justice
WASHINGTON, April 16 -- The U.S. Court of Appeals
for the First Circuit in Boston has upheld a U.S. District Court
order requiring Brown University to immediately reinstate its women's
gymnastics and volleyball teams to full varsity status. The ruling in
Cohen et al. v. Brown University is the first appeals court decision
in the nation applying Title IX to intercollegiate athletics.  Trial
Lawyers for Public Justice (TLPJ), is the national public interest
law firm representing the women athletes.
"This ruling makes clear what we have said all along -- if a
school wants to eliminate teams before women have their fair share of
opportunities to participate, they can only eliminiate men's teams,"
said TLPJ Executive Director Arthur Bryant, co-counsel in the case.
The class action, filed April, 1992, charged Brown with violating
Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, the federal law that
prohibits sex discrimination by all educational institutions
receiving federal funds.  Brown terminated the two women's teams as
university-funded sports in May 1991, allowing them to continue to
compete against varsity teams if they could raise their own funds for
uniforms, travel, coaches, and all other expenses.  They had also
been denied admission preferences for use in recruiting new members.
"This is a major victory for women and the cause of equal rights,"
said TLPJ lead counsel Lynette Labinger of Providence's Roney &
Labinger.  "Universities across America need to reevaluate their
programs quickly. Title IX is the law and it's going to be enforced."
Three similar Title IX appeals await decision.  Colorado State
University, Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP), and Colgate
University are asking federal appeals courts to overturn court orders
requiring them to reinstate or establish specific women's varsity
teams.  Continuing its cutting-edge Title IX activities, TLPJ is
representing women athletes at IUP.
In addition to Labinger and Bryant, TLPJ's legal team included:
Ray Marcaccio of Blish & Cavanagh and Amato DeLuca of Mandell, DeLuca
& Schwartz in Providence; and Sandra Duggan of Philadelphia.  The
National Women's Law Center, Women's Sports Foundation, and National
Association for Girls and Women in Sports filed an amicus brief in
support of TLPJ's appeal.
-30-
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: hawks vs leafs lastnight
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Distribution: na
Lines: 33
In <1993Apr18.153820.10118@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>In article <93106.082502ACPS6992@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca> Raj Ramnarace <ACPS6992@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca> writes:
>>did anyone else see this game last night ? just like a playoff game!!
>>lots of hitting...but I was disappointed by the video goal judge...
>>on all replays, joe murphy's goal shouldn't have counted ! it didn't go in net
>>!! and according to the tsn broadcasters, the video goal judge said that he
>>saw the water bottle on top of the cage move so he assumed the puck went in!
>>this is terrible...hope crap like this doesn't occur in the playoffs!
>>the game would have ended in 2-2 tie !
>I thought the red light went on...thus, in the review, the presumption
>would be to find conclusive evidence that the puck did not go in the
>net...from the replays I say, even from the rear, the evidence wasn't
>conclusive that the puck was in or out...in my opinion...
It seemed pretty conclusive to me.  The puck clearly hit the crossbar
and then came down on the line.  And the announcers, admittedly homers,
kept harping about how they "must have had a different view upstairs"
because it was obvious to them, and, I would have thought, to anyone who
saw the replay, that the puck didn't go in.  The referee originally
signalled no goal but the video replay "judges" initiated contact with
the referee to claim that a goal was in fact scored.  This, to me, is
unheard of.  Seeing stuff like this happen gives me a bad feeling about
the Leaf chances this year.
cordially, as always,
rm
--
Roger Maynard
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: e8l6@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Rocket)
Subject: NHL Final point standings
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Distribution: rec.sport.hockey
Lines: 694
Individual leaders by total points (Final standings)
NOTE: Games played and points per games not accurate !!
Player       Team   GP  G   A  Pts ppg  Prj PIM +/-
M.Lemieux    PIT    59  69  91 160 2.71 160  38  53
LaFontaine   BUF    82  53  95 148 1.80 148  63  13
Oates        BOS    83  45  97 142 1.71 142  32  12
Yzerman      DET    83  58  79 137 1.65 137  44  33
Turgeon      NYI    80  58  74 132 1.65 132  26  -2
Selanne      WIN    82  76  56 132 1.61 132  45   6
Mogilny      BUF    75  76  51 127 1.69 127  40   9
Gilmour      TOR    81  32  95 127 1.57 127  96  32
Robitaille   LA     82  63  62 125 1.52 127 100  16
Recchi       PHI    81  53  70 123 1.52 123  95  -2
Sundin       QUE    79  47  67 114 1.44 114  96  19
Stevens      PIT    71  55  57 112 1.58 112 169  16
Bure         VAN    82  60  50 110 1.34 110  67  37
Tocchet      PIT    79  48  61 109 1.38 109 240  28
Roenick      CHI    82  50  57 107 1.30 107  82  15
Janney       STL    82  24  82 106 1.29 106  12   1
Sakic        QUE    77  48  57 105 1.36 105  40  -4
Juneau       BOS    83  32  70 102 1.23 102  33  21
Hull         STL    78  54  47 101 1.29 101  41 -21
Andreychuk   TOR    81  55  45 100 1.23 100  56   4
Fleury       CAL    82  34  66 100 1.22 100  88  15
Francis      PIT    83  24  76 100 1.20 100  68   6
Housley      WIN    78  18  79  97 1.24  97  52 -13
Ciccarelli   DET    81  41  56  97 1.20  97  81  12
Damphousse   MON    82  39  58  97 1.18  97  96   5
Hawerchuk    BUF    79  16  80  96 1.22  96  48 -14
Shanahan     STL    69  51  43  94 1.36  94 168   9
Muller       MON    79  37  57  94 1.19  94  75   9
Jagr         PIT    80  34  60  94 1.18  94  69  31
Modano       MIN    80  33  60  93 1.16  93  81  -6
Messier      NYR    72  25  66  91 1.26  91  70  -3
Sanderson    HAR    79  46  43  89 1.13  89  28 -24
Reichel      CAL    78  40  48  88 1.13  88  54  23
Bellows      MON    80  40  48  88 1.10  88  42   4
Fedorov      DET    72  34  53  87 1.21  87  72  33
Thomas       NYI    76  37  50  87 1.14  87 109   0
Coffey       DET    79  12  75  87 1.10  87  77  16
Kurri        LA     81  27  60  87 1.07  88  38  20
Bradley      TB     78  42  44  86 1.10  86  90 -22
Brind'Amour  PHI    78  37  49  86 1.10  86  87  -9
Ronning      VAN    77  29  56  85 1.10  85  30  16
Bondra       WAS    80  37  48  85 1.06  85  70   3
Cassels      HAR    81  21  64  85 1.05  85  57 -15
Murphy       PIT    82  22  62  84 1.02  84  73  42
Bourque      BOS    78  19  63  82 1.05  82  40  38
Granato      LA     79  37  45  82 1.04  83 165   3
Verbeek      HAR    81  39  43  82 1.01  82 180 -11
Ridley       WAS    81  26  56  82 1.01  82  38   4
Duchesne     QUE    81  20  62  82 1.01  82  57  15
C.Lemieux    NJ     75  30  51  81 1.08  81 149   0
Suter        CAL    80  23  58  81 1.01  81 112  -1
Lebeau       MON    69  31  49  80 1.16  80  20  23
Roberts      CAL    57  38  41  79 1.39  79 172  31
Semak        NJ     80  37  42  79 0.99  79  70  22
Hatcher      WAS    80  34  45  79 0.99  79 110 -12
D.Hunter     WAS    81  20  59  79 0.98  79 194   2
Courtnall    MIN    82  36  43  79 0.96  79  49  -2
Brown        STL    69  25  53  78 1.13  78  56  -4
Ricci        QUE    76  27  51  78 1.03  78 121   9
Kisio        SJ     77  26  52  78 1.01  78  90 -15
Craven       VAN    76  25  52  77 1.01  77  30   0
G.Courtnall  VAN    82  31  46  77 0.94  77 167  23
Nolan        QUE    72  36  40  76 1.06  76 185  -6
King         NYI    74  38  38  76 1.03  76  45  -1
Amonte       NYR    80  33  43  76 0.95  76  47   0
Gagner       MIN    82  33  43  76 0.93  76 141 -15
Lindros      PHI    58  41  34  75 1.29  75 143  25
Hogue        NYI    67  33  42  75 1.12  75 106   6
Nieuwendyk   CAL    77  38  37  75 0.97  75  52   8
Pivonka      WAS    66  21  53  74 1.12  74  51  12
Borschevsky  TOR    76  34  40  74 0.97  74  26  32
Dahlen       MIN    81  35  39  74 0.91  74   6 -18
Richer       NJ     76  38  35  73 0.96  73  44   0
Emerson      STL    80  22  51  73 0.91  73  60  -1
Nedved       VAN    82  38  35  73 0.89  73  94  18
Chelios      CHI    82  15  58  73 0.89  73 282  13
Carson       LA     84  37  36  73 0.87  74  30   2
Zhamnov      WIN    66  25  47  72 1.09  72  58   5
Kvartalnov   BOS    72  30  42  72 1.00  72  14   9
Steen        WIN    78  22  50  72 0.92  72  75  -8
Linden       VAN    82  33  39  72 0.88  72  60  15
Mullen       PIT    71  33  37  70 0.99  70  12  21
Larmer       CHI    82  35  35  70 0.85  70  48  22
Donnelly     LA     82  29  40  69 0.84  70  45  18
Kovalenko    QUE    80  27  41  68 0.85  68  57  10
Gartner      NYR    81  45  23  68 0.84  68  55  -2
Khristich    WAS    61  31  36  67 1.10  67  26  26
Sheppard     DET    70  32  34  66 0.94  66  29   7
Garpenlov    SJ     78  22  44  66 0.85  66  56 -25
Iafrate      WAS    81  25  41  66 0.81  66 169  15
Gretzky      LA     43  16  49  65 1.51  67   6   6
Zalapski     HAR    80  14  51  65 0.81  65  86 -32
Graves       NYR    81  36  29  65 0.80  65 148  -4
Anderson     TOR    74  21  43  64 0.86  64 117  19
Zelepukin    NJ     76  23  41  64 0.84  64  66  16
MacIver      OTT    78  17  46  63 0.81  63  80 -42
Dineen       PHI    80  35  28  63 0.79  63 199  11
Chiasson     DET    78  12  50  62 0.79  62 151  15
Ysebaert     DET    79  34  28  62 0.78  62  42  19
Galley       PHI    80  13  49  62 0.78  62  98  14
McEachern    PIT    83  28  33  61 0.73  61  46  21
Nicholls     NJ     67  13  47  60 0.90  60  80 -13
Keane        MON    75  15  45  60 0.80  60  93  28
Flatley      NYI    77  13  47  60 0.78  60  61   3
S.Young      QUE    81  30  30  60 0.74  60  20   4
Shannon      WIN    82  20  40  60 0.73  60  91  -4
Fedyk        PHI    74  21  38  59 0.80  59  48  14
Blake        LA     76  16  43  59 0.78  60 152  18
Olausson     WIN    66  16  41  57 0.86  57  22  -5
Makarov      CAL    70  18  39  57 0.81  57  40   0
Smith        CHI    76  10  47  57 0.75  57 212  13
Elynuik      WAS    77  22  35  57 0.74  57  66   2
Stevens      NJ     79  12  45  57 0.72  57 116  16
Adams        VAN    51  25  31  56 1.10  56  14  33
Tucker       TB     76  17  39  56 0.74  56  69 -10
MacInnis     CAL    48  11  43  54 1.13  54  59  15
Sutter       CHI    63  20  34  54 0.86  54  65   9
Bodger       BUF    80   9  45  54 0.68  54  87  14
Nemchinov    NYR    81  23  31  54 0.67  54  34  15
Driver       NJ     81  14  40  54 0.67  54  64  -9
Ruuttu       CHI    82  17  37  54 0.66  54 134  14
Yake         HAR    63  22  31  53 0.84  53  44   5
Turcotte     NYR    68  25  28  53 0.78  53  40  -2
Sandstrom    LA     37  25  27  52 1.41  53  51  11
Malakhov     NYI    61  14  38  52 0.85  52  59  14
Ward         VAN    68  22  30  52 0.76  52  82  32
Otto         CAL    74  19  33  52 0.70  52 150   2
Kontos       TB     66  27  24  51 0.77  51  12  -7
Leach        BOS    78  26  25  51 0.65  51 126  -6
Poulin       HAR    78  20  31  51 0.65  51  37 -19
Tkachuk      WIN    81  28  23  51 0.63  51 199 -14
Savard       MON    62  16  34  50 0.81  50  90   2
Norton       NYI    63  12  38  50 0.79  50  45  -6
Cullen       TOR    64  18  32  50 0.78  50 109 -23
Cote         WAS    74  21  29  50 0.68  50  34  28
Eklund       PHI    52  11  38  49 0.94  49  16   8
Olczyk       NYR    68  21  28  49 0.72  49  52  -1
Semenov      VAN    74  12  37  49 0.66  49  32  16
Davydov      WIN    77  28  21  49 0.64  49  64  -2
Miller       STL    80  24  25  49 0.61  49  96   0
Poulin       BOS    83  16  33  49 0.59  49  62  30
Klima        EDM    66  32  16  48 0.73  48  98 -15
Dionne       MON    73  20  28  48 0.66  48  55   6
Baker        OTT    74  19  29  48 0.65  48  52 -21
Rucinsky     QUE    76  18  30  48 0.63  48  51  14
Weight       EDM    76  17  31  48 0.63  48  65   5
Zhitnik      LA     76  12  36  48 0.63  49  78  -2
MacLean      NJ     78  24  24  48 0.62  48 100  -7
Corson       EDM    78  16  31  47 0.60  47 207 -16
Sweeney      BUF    79  21  26  47 0.59  47 118   4
Simpson      EDM    60  24  22  46 0.77  46  36 -14
Hawgood      PHI    66  11  35  46 0.70  46  68  -9
Johansson    WAS    74   7  38  45 0.61  45  54   0
Miller       WAS    81  18  27  45 0.56  45  32  -1
Manson       EDM    81  15  30  45 0.56  45 210 -26
Desjardins   MON    81  13  32  45 0.56  45  98  19
Schneider    MON    58  13  31  44 0.76  44  89   9
Goulet       CHI    63  23  21  44 0.70  44  41  10
Leclair      MON    70  19  25  44 0.63  44  33  11
Drake        DET    71  18  26  44 0.62  44  91  14
Lumme        VAN    73   8  36  44 0.60  44  55  29
Gaudreau     SJ     58  23  20  43 0.74  43  18 -17
Gill         TOR    68  11  32  43 0.63  43  64   4
Turgeon      OTT    70  25  18  43 0.61  43 104 -26
Probert      DET    79  14  29  43 0.54  43 292  -9
Wood         BUF    80  18  25  43 0.54  43  77   7
Ranheim      CAL    82  21  22  43 0.52  43  26  -4
Zamuner      TB     82  15  28  43 0.52  43  72 -25
Tinordi      MIN    69  15  27  42 0.61  42 157  -1
Paslawski    CAL    71  18  24  42 0.59  42  12   0
Ruzicka      BOS    60  19  22  41 0.68  41  38  -6
Elik         EDM    60  14  27  41 0.68  41  56  -4
Kudelski     OTT    61  24  17  41 0.67  41  28 -25
McSorley     LA     79  15  26  41 0.52  42 393   0
Shaw         OTT    79   7  34  41 0.52  41  34 -47
Lidstrom     DET    83   7  34  41 0.49  41  28   7
Stastny      NJ     60  17  23  40 0.67  40  20  -3
Ellett       TOR    68   6  34  40 0.59  40  46  17
Tikkanen     NYR    78  16  24  40 0.51  40  94 -22
Niedermayer  NJ     78  11  29  40 0.51  40  47   8
Racine       DET    79   9  31  40 0.51  40  80   8
McPhee       MIN    82  18  22  40 0.49  40  44  -4
Millen       LA     40  23  16  39 0.98  40  42  15
Chambers     TB     53  10  29  39 0.74  39  34 -23
Holik        NJ     59  20  19  39 0.66  39  72  -2
Clark        TOR    65  17  22  39 0.60  39 187   3
Khmylev      BUF    66  20  19  39 0.59  39  26   6
Creighton    TB     81  19  20  39 0.48  39 110 -21
Krushelnyski TOR    82  19  20  39 0.48  39  60   3
Kurvers      NYI    49   8  30  38 0.78  38  38   8
Crossman     STL    57  10  28  38 0.67  38  28  -6
Kovalev      NYR    63  20  18  38 0.60  38  79  -8
Craig        MIN    68  15  23  38 0.56  38 106 -10
Krupp        NYI    79   9  29  38 0.48  38  67   8
Momesso      VAN    82  18  20  38 0.46  38 193  11
Kamensky     QUE    31  15  22  37 1.19  37  14  13
Numminen     WIN    65   7  30  37 0.57  37  33   4
Pearson      TOR    76  23  14  37 0.49  37 196  -2
Graham       CHI    82  20  17  37 0.45  37 141   1
Leetch       NYR    36   6  30  36 1.00  36  26   2
Ciger        EDM    62  13  23  36 0.58  36   8 -14
Beers        TB     62  12  24  36 0.58  36  70 -24
Reid         BOS    65  20  16  36 0.55  36  10  12
Lapointe     QUE    73  10  26  36 0.49  36  98   4
Sjodin       MIN    75   7  29  36 0.48  36  30 -25
Weinrich     HAR    76   7  29  36 0.47  36  76 -10
Borsato      WIN    65  15  20  35 0.54  35  38  -1
Zezel        TOR    68  12  23  35 0.51  35  24  -1
Burr         DET    79  10  25  35 0.44  35  74  18
Donato       BOS    81  15  20  35 0.43  35  61   2
Benning      EDM    55  10  24  34 0.62  34 152  -1
Howe         DET    59   3  31  34 0.58  34  22  20
Guerin       NJ     63  14  20  34 0.54  34  63  16
Hull         OTT    67  13  21  34 0.51  34  14 -21
D.Sweeney    BOS    83   7  27  34 0.41  34  66  34
Nylander     HAR    56  11  22  33 0.59  33  36  -5
Beranek      PHI    63  15  18  33 0.52  33  78  -6
Wesley       BOS    64   8  25  33 0.52  33  47  -2
Matteau      CHI    77  15  18  33 0.43  33  96   6
Broten       MIN    80  12  21  33 0.41  33  22   7
Leeman       MON    50  15  17  32 0.64  32  24  14
Dalgarno     NYI    55  15  17  32 0.58  32  60  16
Mellanby     EDM    67  15  17  32 0.48  32 147  -4
Primeau      DET    73  15  17  32 0.44  32 152  -6
Gilbert      CHI    75  13  19  32 0.43  32  57   5
Mullen       NYI    78  18  14  32 0.41  32  28   7
Presley      BUF    78  15  17  32 0.41  32  92   5
Leschyshyn   QUE    81   9  23  32 0.40  32  55  22
Zubov        NYR    46   8  23  31 0.67  31   4   1
Mironov      TOR    57   7  24  31 0.54  31  38  -2
Bureau       TB     63  10  21  31 0.49  31 111 -12
Brisebois    MON    68  10  21  31 0.46  31  77   8
Heinze       BOS    72  18  13  31 0.43  31  24  21
Smehlik      BUF    78   4  27  31 0.40  31  59  10
Lemieux      CHI    79  10  21  31 0.39  31 109   4
Yushkevich   PHI    79   5  26  31 0.39  31  71  10
Evason       SJ     83  12  19  31 0.37  31 132 -33
McInnis      NYI    56  10  20  30 0.54  30  24   7
Noonan       CHI    61  16  14  30 0.49  30  82   1
Gallant      DET    66  10  20  30 0.45  30 186  20
Kennedy      DET    67  19  11  30 0.45  30  46  -1
Hough        QUE    77   8  22  30 0.39  30  69 -11
Gusarov      QUE    78   8  22  30 0.38  30  57  16
MacTavish    EDM    80  10  20  30 0.38  30 110 -15
Buchberger   EDM    81  12  18  30 0.37  30 133 -24
Janssens     HAR    73  12  17  29 0.40  29 233 -12
U.Samuelson  PIT    76   3  26  29 0.38  29 247  37
Sydor        LA     78   6  23  29 0.37  29  59   0
Duchesne     MIN    82  16  13  29 0.35  29  30   6
Falloon      SJ     41  14  14  28 0.68  28  12 -25
Sandlak      VAN    59  10  18  28 0.47  28 122   2
Carpenter    WAS    65  11  17  28 0.43  28  63 -16
Kron         HAR    42  14  13  27 0.64  27  18   7
Ferraro      NYI    43  14  13  27 0.63  27  38  -5
Kravchuk     EDM    55  10  17  27 0.49  27  32   3
Plavsic      VAN    56   6  21  27 0.48  27  51  27
Ron Sutter   STL    59  12  15  27 0.46  27  99 -11
Cole         TB     65  12  15  27 0.42  27  21  -4
Odgers       SJ     65  12  15  27 0.42  27 251 -25
Fitzgerald   NYI    74   9  18  27 0.36  27  32  -1
Fetisov      NJ     74   4  23  27 0.36  27 158   7
Korolev      STL    74   4  23  27 0.36  27  20  -1
Kypreos      HAR    75  17  10  27 0.36  27 325  -5
Andersson    TB     75  16  11  27 0.36  27  14 -14
Huddy        LA     80   2  25  27 0.34  27  62  20
Rich Sutter  STL    82  13  14  27 0.33  27 100  -6
Slegr        VAN    40   4  22  26 0.65  26 109  16
Svoboda      BUF    40   2  24  26 0.65  26  59   3
Patrick      NYR    60   5  21  26 0.43  26  61   1
Jones        WAS    68  12  14  26 0.38  26 124  16
Lamb         OTT    69   7  19  26 0.38  26  62 -40
Osborne      TOR    75  12  14  26 0.35  26  87  -7
May          BUF    80  13  13  26 0.33  26 238   3
Eagles       WIN    82   8  18  26 0.32  26 131  -1
Brunet       MON    45  10  15  25 0.56  25  19  13
T.Green      NYI    58   7  18  25 0.43  25  43   6
Stern        CAL    69  10  15  25 0.36  25 207   2
Lidster      VAN    71   6  19  25 0.35  25  36   9
Haller       MON    72  11  14  25 0.35  25 117   8
Tippett      PIT    73   6  19  25 0.34  25  56   7
Peluso       OTT    79  15  10  25 0.32  25 318 -32
DiMaio       TB     54   9  15  24 0.44  24  62   0
Brady        OTT    55   7  17  24 0.44  24  57 -25
Freer        OTT    61  10  14  24 0.39  24  39 -32
Cavallini    QUE    66   9  15  24 0.36  24  34  10
Lachance     NYI    74   7  17  24 0.32  24  67  -2
Shaw         BOS    76  10  14  24 0.32  24 108   9
Berg         TOR    78  13  11  24 0.31  24 103   2
Ozolinsh     SJ     37   7  16  23 0.62  23  40  -9
Klatt        MIN    45   4  19  23 0.51  23  38   6
Loach        LA     53  10  13  23 0.43  23  27   3
Todd         EDM    55   9  14  23 0.42  23  26  -9
Ashton       CAL    56  10  13  23 0.41  23  52   8
McBain       OTT    57   7  16  23 0.40  23  43 -35
Gelinas      EDM    63  11  12  23 0.37  23  30   2
Bautin       WIN    69   5  18  23 0.33  23  92  -2
Krygier      WAS    74  11  12  23 0.31  23  60 -14
Johnson      MIN    79   3  20  23 0.29  23 105   9
Acton        PHI    80   8  15  23 0.29  23  51 -11
Barnes       WIN    37  12  10  22 0.59  22  10  -3
Huffman      QUE    52   4  18  22 0.42  22  54   0
Sutton       BUF    61   8  14  22 0.36  22  30   0
McKay        NJ     71  11  11  22 0.31  22 199   1
Konstantinov DET    81   5  17  22 0.27  22 135  23
Pellerin     NJ     44  10  11  21 0.48  21  37  -1
Sillinger    DET    51   4  17  21 0.41  21  16   0
Volek        NYI    56   8  13  21 0.38  21  34  -1
Lindberg     CAL    61   9  12  21 0.34  21  18  -4
Evans        PHI    65   8  13  21 0.32  21  70  -9
Hamrlik      TB     65   6  15  21 0.32  21  65 -20
Gilchrist    MIN    68  10  11  21 0.31  21  49 -12
Churla       MIN    73   5  16  21 0.29  21 286  -8
Kasparaitis  NYI    77   4  17  21 0.27  21 166  14
Loney        PIT    81   5  16  21 0.26  21  99   3
Courtenay    SJ     38   7  13  20 0.53  20  10 -15
Wilson       SJ     42   3  17  20 0.48  20  40 -28
T.Pederson   SJ     43   7  13  20 0.47  20  31 -14
Lomakin      PHI    48   8  12  20 0.42  20  34  14
Druce        WIN    48   6  14  20 0.42  20  37  -5
Hannan       BUF    53   5  15  20 0.38  20  41  10
Corriveau    HAR    54   8  12  20 0.37  20  12 -20
Bourque      NYR    54   6  14  20 0.37  20  39  -9
Hiller       DET    60   8  12  20 0.33  20 109   6
Maltais      TB     61   7  13  20 0.33  20  35 -19
Burt         HAR    62   6  14  20 0.32  20 116 -14
Johansson    CAL    75   4  16  20 0.27  20  60  11
Marchment    CHI    76   5  15  20 0.26  20 309  13
Diduck       VAN    78   6  14  20 0.26  20 163  29
Podein       EDM    38  13   6  19 0.50  19  25  -1
Berehowsky   TOR    40   4  15  19 0.48  19  61   1
Babych       VAN    41   3  16  19 0.46  19  42   4
Audette      BUF    42  12   7  19 0.45  19  51  -5
Chorske      NJ     50   7  12  19 0.38  19  25  -1
Bassen       STL    51   9  10  19 0.37  19  59  -4
Hatcher      MIN    65   4  15  19 0.29  19 176 -26
Kucera       CHI    70   5  14  19 0.27  19  59   7
Wilson       STL    76   8  11  19 0.25  19  44  -7
Macoun       TOR    76   4  15  19 0.25  19  55   3
King         WIN    77   8  11  19 0.25  19 203   4
Beukeboom    NYR    79   2  17  19 0.24  19 153  10
Carkner      PHI    80   3  16  19 0.24  19 146  16
Neely        BOS    12  11   7  18 1.50  18  25   4
Foligno      TOR    54  13   5  18 0.33  18  84   1
Christian    CHI    60   4  14  18 0.30  18  12   6
Errey        BUF    61   9   9  18 0.30  18  80   1
Gavin        MIN    63  10   8  18 0.29  18  59  -4
McLlwain     TOR    65  14   4  18 0.28  18  30 -17
Daigneault   MON    65   8  10  18 0.28  18  57  24
Ramage       MON    74   5  13  18 0.24  18 146 -24
Smith        EDM    76   4  14  18 0.24  18  30 -11
Paek         PIT    76   3  15  18 0.24  18  64  15
Murphy       CHI    17   7  10  17 1.00  17  18  -4
DiPietro     MON    27   4  13  17 0.63  17  14  10
M.Pederson   SJ     40  10   7  17 0.43  17  24 -20
Nattress     PHI    44   7  10  17 0.39  17  29   1
Carbonneau   MON    59   4  13  17 0.29  17  20  -8
Yawney       CAL    61   1  16  17 0.28  17  65   5
Kasatonov    NJ     63   3  14  17 0.27  17  55   7
Roberts      BOS    64   5  12  17 0.27  17 103  22
MacDermid    WAS    72   9   8  17 0.24  17  80 -13
Odjick       VAN    74   4  13  17 0.23  17 360   4
Conacher     LA     79   9   8  17 0.22  17  20 -15
Cavallini    WAS    79   6  11  17 0.22  17  56   4
Erickson     WIN    39   4  12  16 0.41  16  12   2
Straka       PIT    41   3  13  16 0.39  16  29   3
Erixon       NYR    42   5  11  16 0.38  16  10  13
Murphy       BOS    48   5  11  16 0.33  16  60 -14
Ledyard      BUF    48   2  14  16 0.33  16  43   0
Butsayev     PHI    49   2  14  16 0.33  16  57   2
Ulanov       WIN    54   2  14  16 0.30  16 122   6
Carter       SJ     55   7   9  16 0.29  16  81 -25
Glynn        EDM    62   4  12  16 0.26  16  58 -12
Boschman     OTT    68   9   7  16 0.24  16  95 -27
Rumble       OTT    68   3  13  16 0.24  16  61 -26
Stanton      PIT    76   4  12  16 0.21  16  97   8
Murzyn       VAN    77   5  11  16 0.21  16 179  36
Musil        CAL    78   6  10  16 0.21  16 129  26
May          WAS    80   6  10  16 0.20  16 266   0
Foote        QUE    80   4  12  16 0.20  16 168   3
Odelein      MON    81   2  14  16 0.20  16 201  35
Andersson    NYR    29   4  11  15 0.52  15  16   7
Archibald    OTT    42   9   6  15 0.36  15  32 -15
Taylor       LA     46   6   9  15 0.33  15  49   2
Lowe         NYR    47   3  12  15 0.32  15  58  -1
Domi         WIN    59   5  10  15 0.25  15 340   1
McCrimmon    DET    60   1  14  15 0.25  15  71  21
Konroyd      DET    65   3  12  15 0.23  15  67 -15
Zombo        STL    69   0  15  15 0.22  15  78  -4
Butcher      STL    82   5  10  15 0.18  15 209   0
Zmolek       SJ     83   5  10  15 0.18  15 229 -51
Fergus       VAN    36   5   9  14 0.39  14  20   1
Skrudland    CAL    38   7   7  14 0.37  14  65   4
Pantaleyev   BOS    39   8   6  14 0.36  14  12  -6
Pearson      QUE    41  13   1  14 0.34  14  95   3
C.J.Young    BOS    43   7   7  14 0.33  14  32  -6
Smail        OTT    51   4  10  14 0.27  14  51 -34
Hardy        LA     53   1  13  14 0.26  14  89  -1
Broten       NYR    58   5   9  14 0.24  14  48  -6
Barr         NJ     60   6   8  14 0.23  14  44   3
Taglianetti  PIT    71   2  12  14 0.20  14 182  15
Ewen         MON    74   5   9  14 0.19  14 191   7
Bergevin     TB     76   2  12  14 0.18  14  66 -16
Finn         QUE    79   5   9  14 0.18  14 160  -4
Lefebvre     TOR    79   2  12  14 0.18  14  90   6
M.Sullivan   SJ     81   6   8  14 0.17  14  30 -42
Ojanen       NJ     31   4   9  13 0.42  13  14  -2
Reekie       TB     42   2  11  13 0.31  13  69   2
Lindsay      QUE    44   4   9  13 0.30  13  16   0
Ramsey       PIT    44   3  10  13 0.30  13  28  16
Valk         VAN    46   6   7  13 0.28  13  73   5
Jelinek      OTT    49   7   6  13 0.27  13  52 -21
Needham      PIT    55   8   5  13 0.24  13  24  -2
Lowry        STL    56   5   8  13 0.23  13 101 -18
Rychel       LA     68   6   7  13 0.19  13 293 -14
McGill       PHI    70   3  10  13 0.19  13 221   7
Stapleton    PIT    78   4   9  13 0.17  13  10  -8
Richardson   EDM    80   3  10  13 0.16  13 140 -18
Rouse        TOR    80   3  10  13 0.16  13 128   8
Daneyko      NJ     82   2  11  13 0.16  13 222   4
Ogrodnick    DET    18   6   6  12 0.67  12   2  -3
S. King      NYR    24   7   5  12 0.50  12  16   4
Joseph       EDM    31   2  10  12 0.39  12  46  -6
Petit        CAL    34   3   9  12 0.35  12  50  -6
Williams     SJ     39   1  11  12 0.31  12  49 -25
B.Smith      MIN    43   5   7  12 0.28  12   8  -6
Bozon        STL    52   6   6  12 0.23  12  55  -1
Ronan        MON    53   5   7  12 0.23  12  20   6
Dirk         VAN    67   4   8  12 0.18  12 146  22
Hunter       VAN    72   5   7  12 0.17  12 182  -5
Luongo       OTT    74   3   9  12 0.16  12  68 -42
Berube       CAL    75   4   8  12 0.16  12 209  -6
Wilson       CAL    22   4   7  11 0.50  11   8  10
Vujtek       EDM    28   1  10  11 0.39  11   8  -1
Konowalchuk  WAS    36   4   7  11 0.31  11  16   4
Snuggerud    PHI    39   4   7  11 0.28  11  14  -3
Murray       CHI    49   4   7  11 0.22  11  57 -14
Donnelly     BUF    58   3   8  11 0.19  11 219   6
Dahl         CAL    59   2   9  11 0.19  11  52   9
Kasper       TB     66   4   7  11 0.17  11  20 -16
More         SJ     73   5   6  11 0.15  11 179 -35
Quintal      STL    73   1  10  11 0.15  11 100  -6
Ludwig       MIN    76   1  10  11 0.14  11 149   0
Muni         CHI    79   0  11  11 0.14  11  73 -15
Lazaro       OTT    26   6   4  10 0.38  10  16  -8
Norwood      STL    32   3   7  10 0.31  10  63  -5
Featherstone BOS    34   5   5  10 0.29  10 102   6
Murphy       OTT    42   3   7  10 0.24  10  28 -18
DeBrusk      EDM    49   8   2  10 0.20  10 199 -14
Wells        NYR    50   1   9  10 0.20  10 105  -2
Kimble       BOS    54   7   3  10 0.19  10 177   4
Corkum       BUF    67   6   4  10 0.15  10  38  -2
Dahlquist    CAL    73   3   7  10 0.14  10  66  -2
Gordijuk     BUF    16   3   6   9 0.56   9   0   4
Hurlbut      NYR    23   1   8   9 0.39   9  16   4
Boivin       PHI    30   5   4   9 0.30   9  76  -5
Moller       BUF    35   2   7   9 0.26   9  83   6
Cunneyworth  HAR    36   5   4   9 0.25   9  61  -1
Petrovicky   HAR    42   3   6   9 0.21   9  45 -10
McRae        STL    45   3   6   9 0.20   9 167 -13
Cirella      NYR    52   3   6   9 0.17   9  83   4
Maley        SJ     55   2   7   9 0.16   9 143 -27
Daniels      PIT    57   5   4   9 0.16   9  14  -6
Hughes       BOS    61   5   4   9 0.15   9 191  -5
Lalor        WIN    62   1   8   9 0.15   9  74 -13
K.Samuelson  PIT    63   3   6   9 0.14   9 106  25
McKenzie     HAR    63   3   6   9 0.14   9 202  -9
Kocur        NYR    64   3   6   9 0.14   9 129  -9
Loewen       OTT    77   4   5   9 0.12   9 145 -25
Houlder      BUF    13   3   5   8 0.62   8   6   7
T.Sweeney    BOS    14   1   7   8 0.57   8   6   1
Douris       BOS    18   4   4   8 0.44   8   4   5
Keczmer      HAR    21   4   4   8 0.38   8  28  -2
Greig        HAR    22   1   7   8 0.36   8  27 -11
Day          HAR    24   1   7   8 0.33   8  47  -8
Werenka      EDM    27   5   3   8 0.30   8  24   1
Tatarinov    QUE    28   2   6   8 0.29   8  28   6
McDonough    SJ     30   6   2   8 0.27   8   6 -21
Hill         MON    30   2   6   8 0.27   8  47  -5
K.Brown      CHI    31   2   6   8 0.26   8  37   4
Loiselle     NYI    38   5   3   8 0.21   8  84  -4
Hudson       EDM    39   1   7   8 0.21   8  44  -8
Hedican      STL    40   0   8   8 0.20   8  30  -4
Roberge      MON    48   4   4   8 0.17   8 140   3
Ahola        SJ     49   3   5   8 0.16   8  36 -11
McIntyre     NYR    57   3   5   8 0.14   8  82 -14
Anderson     WAS    57   2   6   8 0.14   8  18  -1
Houda        HAR    57   2   6   8 0.14   8 163 -21
Hartman      TB     58   4   4   8 0.14   8 154  -7
Wilkinson    SJ     58   1   7   8 0.14   8  96 -48
Hammond      OTT    61   4   4   8 0.13   8 104 -40
Barrasso     PIT    62   0   8   8 0.13   8  20   0
Kennedy      WIN    77   1   7   8 0.10   8 105  -4
Eastwood     TOR    12   1   6   7 0.58   7  21  -2
Quintin      SJ     14   2   5   7 0.50   7   4  -4
R.Brown      CHI    15   1   6   7 0.47  33  33   6
Godynyuk     CAL    26   3   4   7 0.27   7  17   7
Rice         EDM    26   2   5   7 0.27   7  13  -5
Murray       BOS    27   3   4   7 0.26   7   8  -6
Wiemer       BOS    27   1   6   7 0.26   7  48  -1
Berezan      SJ     28   3   4   7 0.25   7  28 -18
Marois       NYI    28   2   5   7 0.25   7  35  -3
Mallette     NJ     34   4   3   7 0.21   7  56   3
Hynes        PHI    36   3   4   7 0.19   7  16  -3
Gilhen       TB     42   3   4   7 0.17   7  12 -13
Chase        STL    49   2   5   7 0.14   7 204  -9
Vukota       NYI    71   2   5   7 0.10   7 199   4
Zettler      SJ     79   0   7   7 0.09   7 150 -48
Lafreniere   TB      9   3   3   6 0.67   6   4  -5
Propp        MIN    15   3   3   6 0.40   6   0  -8
Belanger     MON    18   4   2   6 0.33   6   4   1
Kerr         HAR    22   0   6   6 0.27   6   7 -11
Shuchuk      LA     23   2   4   6 0.26   6  14   4
Bergland     TB     25   3   3   6 0.24   6  11  -9
Vaske        NYI    25   1   5   6 0.24   6  30   6
Carney       BUF    29   2   4   6 0.21   6  51   2
Dinnen       OTT    31   2   4   6 0.19   6  30 -19
Albelin      NJ     34   1   5   6 0.18   6  14  -1
Patterson    BUF    35   4   2   6 0.17   6  18  -2
Ladouceur    HAR    59   2   4   6 0.10   6 107 -17
Russell      CHI    66   2   4   6 0.09   6 151   5
Lang         LA     11   0   5   5 0.45   5   2  -3
Lipuma       TB     13   0   5   5 0.38   5  32   1
Brown        NJ     15   0   5   5 0.33   5   2   3
Kozlov       DET    16   4   1   5 0.31   5  14  -1
Savage       WAS    16   2   3   5 0.31   5  12  -4
Bruce        SJ     17   2   3   5 0.29   5  33 -14
Byers        SJ     18   4   1   5 0.28   5 122  -2
Conroy       PHI    18   3   2   5 0.28   5  17   0
Van Allen    EDM    21   1   4   5 0.24   5   6  -2
Richer       BOS    23   1   4   5 0.22   5  18  -9
Wolanin      QUE    23   1   4   5 0.22   5  49   8
Leach        HAR    24   3   2   5 0.21   5   4  -7
Prokhorov    STL    26   4   1   5 0.19   5  15  -4
Kruse        CAL    26   2   3   5 0.19   5  41   3
Richter      NYR    35   0   5   5 0.14   5   2   0
Bawa         SJ     41   5   0   5 0.12   5  47 -24
Osiecki      MIN    42   1   4   5 0.12   5  19 -20
Matvichuk    MIN    51   2   3   5 0.10   5  26  -7
Pedersen     HAR    58   1   4   5 0.09   5  60   2
Jennings     PIT    58   0   5   5 0.09   5  65   7
Essensa      WIN    66   0   5   5 0.08   5   2   0
Ray          BUF    68   3   2   5 0.07   5 211  -3
McKim        BOS     7   1   3   4 0.57   4   0   2
Faust        PHI     8   2   2   4 0.50   4   4   3
Smolinski    BOS     8   1   3   4 0.50   4   0   3
Fogarty      PIT    12   0   4   4 0.33   4   4  -3
Hervey       TB     15   0   4   4 0.27   4  36  -4
Picard       SJ     25   4   0   4 0.16   4  24 -17
Reese        CAL    25   0   4   4 0.16   4   4   0
Romaniuk     WIN    28   3   1   4 0.14   4  22   0
Thompson     LA     28   0   4   4 0.14   4  79  -3
Pilon        NYI    41   1   3   4 0.10   4 146  -3
Giles        STL    48   0   4   4 0.08   4  40  -2
Baron        STL    53   2   2   4 0.08   4  59  -5
Cheveldae    DET    66   0   4   4 0.06   4   4   0
Hankinson    NJ      4   2   1   3 0.75   3   9   2
McDougall    EDM     4   2   1   3 0.75   3   4   2
Felsner      STL     4   0   3   3 0.75   3   0   0
Ruff         TB      8   2   1   3 0.38   3   8  -1
Petrov       MON     9   2   1   3 0.33   3  10   2
Black        MIN    10   2   1   3 0.30   3   4   0
Morris       SJ     14   0   3   3 0.21   3   6 -11
Walter       VAN    23   3   0   3 0.13   3   8  -2
Hrivnak      WIN    29   0   3   3 0.10   3   0   0
Wakaluk      MIN    29   0   3   3 0.10   3  20   0
Dufresne     MON    30   1   2   3 0.10   3  30   0
Cronin       PHI    34   2   1   3 0.09   3  37   0
Smyth        CAL    34   1   2   3 0.09   3  95   3
Hrudey       LA     48   0   3   3 0.06   3   8   0
Marsh        OTT    57   0   3   3 0.05   3  30 -25
Casey        MIN    58   0   3   3 0.05   3  28   0
Berry        MIN    61   0   3   3 0.05   3 107   4
Ranford      EDM    66   0   3   3 0.05   3  10   0
Belfour      CHI    69   0   3   3 0.04   3  28   0
Rivers       TB      4   0   2   2 0.50   2   2  -2
Forslund     CAL     5   0   2   2 0.40   2   0   0
Capuano      TB      6   1   1   2 0.33   2   2  -4
Djoos        NYR     6   1   1   2 0.33   2   2   0
Cummins      DET     7   1   1   2 0.29   2  58   0
Otevrel      SJ      7   0   2   2 0.29   2   0  -6
Kolstad      SJ     10   0   2   2 0.20   2  12  -9
Osborne      TB     11   1   1   2 0.18   2   8  -1
Wood         SJ     12   1   1   2 0.17   2  71  -5
Brickley     WIN    12   0   2   2 0.17   2   2   0
Eakins       WIN    14   0   2   2 0.14   2  38   2
Simon        QUE    15   1   1   2 0.13   2  67  -2
Bennett      CHI    16   0   2   2 0.13   2   8  -2
Gillis       HAR    18   1   1   2 0.11   2  38   0
Carlyle      WIN    22   1   1   2 0.09   2  14  -6
Nylund       NYI    22   1   1   2 0.09   2  43  -2
Blue         BOS    22   0   2   2 0.09   2   6   0
Watters      LA     22   0   2   2 0.09   2  18  -3
Woolley      WAS    23   0   2   2 0.09   2  10   0
Whitmore     VAN    29   0   2   2 0.07   2   2   0
Stauber      LA     30   0   2   2 0.07   2   2   0
W.Young      TB     31   0   2   2 0.06   2   2   0
Roussel      PHI    32   0   2   2 0.06   2  11   0
Twist        QUE    34   0   2   2 0.06   2  64   0
Fiset        QUE    37   0   2   2 0.05   2   2   0
Jablonski    TB     42   0   2   2 0.05   2   7   0
Soderstrom   PHI    43   0   2   2 0.05   2   4   0
Healy        NYI    46   0   2   2 0.04   2   2   0
Burke        HAR    50   0   2   2 0.04   2  25   0
Hextall      QUE    53   0   2   2 0.04   2  56   0
Roy          MON    61   0   2   2 0.03   2  16   0
Vernon       CAL    63   0   2   2 0.03   2  42   0
Joseph       STL    66   0   2   2 0.03   2   8   0
Brown        PHI    67   0   2   2 0.03   2  76  -5
Grimson      CHI    76   1   1   2 0.03   2 186   2
Barnaby      BUF     1   1   0   1 1.00   1   0   0
Ratushny     VAN     1   0   1   1 1.00   1   0   0
Zholtok      BOS     1   0   1   1 1.00   1   0   1
Sullivan     NJ      2   0   1   1 0.50   1   0  -1
Duncanson    NYR     3   0   1   1 0.33   1   0   0
Beaufait     SJ      4   1   0   1 0.25   1   0  -1
Bowen        PHI     4   1   0   1 0.25   1   2   0
MacDonald    BUF     4   1   0   1 0.25   1   2   0
Esau         QUE     4   0   1   1 0.25   1   2   1
D.Smith      MIN     9   0   1   1 0.11   1   2  -2
Vial         DET     9   0   1   1 0.11   1  20   1
Brown        BUF    10   0   1   1 0.10   1   6  -5
Draper       BUF    11   0   1   1 0.09   1   2   0
Karpa        QUE    11   0   1   1 0.09   1  13  -6
Tichy        CHI    13   0   1   1 0.08   1  30   7
Gosselin     HAR    15   0   1   1 0.07   1   2   0
Fortier      LA     16   0   1   1 0.06   1  11  -9
Hayward      SJ     18   0   1   1 0.06   1   2   0
McGill       TOR    19   1   0   1 0.05   1  34   5
Bergeron     TB     19   0   1   1 0.05   1   0   0
Potvin       LA     19   0   1   1 0.05   1  52  -9
Berthiaume   OTT    23   0   1   1 0.04   1   2   0
Racicot      MON    25   0   1   1 0.04   1   6   0
Wregget      PIT    25   0   1   1 0.04   1   6   0
Ciccone      MIN    29   0   1   1 0.03   1 106   3
Puppa        TOR    32   0   1   1 0.03   1   0   0
Hackett      SJ     36   0   1   1 0.03   1   4   0
Fitzpatrick  NYI    37   0   1   1 0.03   1   2   0
Billington   NJ     40   0   1   1 0.03   1   8   0
Potvin       TOR    46   0   1   1 0.02   1   4   0
Vanbiesbrouk NYR    48   0   1   1 0.02   1  18   0
McLean       VAN    54   0   1   1 0.02   1  16   0
Moog         BOS    54   0   1   1 0.02   1  14   0
Beaupre      WAS    57   0   1   1 0.02   1  20   0
Baumgartner  TOR    61   1   0   1 0.02   1 155 -11
Bales        BOS     1   0   0   0 0.00   0   0   0
Burridge     WAS     1   0   0   0 0.00   0   0   0
Chabot       MON     1   0   0   0 0.00   0   0   0
D'Alessio    HAR     1   0   0   0 0.00   0   0   0
Littman      TB      1   0   0   0 0.00   0   0   0
Parks        NYI     1   0   0   0 0.00   0   0   0
Semchuk      LA      1   0   0   0 0.00   0   2   0
St. Amour    OTT     1   0   0   0 0.00   0   2   0
Cimellaro    OTT     2   0   0   0 0.00   0   0  -2
Cote         TB      2   0   0   0 0.00   0   0  -1
Marcinyshyn  NYR     2   0   0   0 0.00   0   2  -1
O'Neill      WIN     2   0   0   0 0.00   0   0   0
Raglan       TB      2   0   0   0 0.00   0   2   0
Williams     LA      2   0   0   0 0.00   0  10   0
Charron      MON     3   0   0   0 0.00   0   2   0
Ciavaglia    BUF     3   0   0   0 0.00   0   0   0
Cloutier     QUE     3   0   0   0 0.00   0   0   0
Hamr         OTT     3   0   0   0 0.00   0   0  -3
Wamsley      TOR     3   0   0   0 0.00   0   0   0
Hirsch       NYR     4   0   0   0 0.00   0   0   0
O'Connor     NJ      7   0   0   0 0.00   0   9  -4
J.Messier    NYR     9   0   0   0 0.00   0   6   0
Knickle      LA     10   0   0   0 0.00   0   2   0
Chapdelaine  LA     13   0   0   0 0.00   0  12  -6
Shannon      TOR    15   0   0   0 0.00   0  11  -2
Agnew        HAR    16   0   0   0 0.00   0  68   3
Waite        CHI    20   0   0   0 0.00   0   0   0
Langway      WAS    21   0   0   0 0.00   0  20 -13
Riendeau     DET    22   0   0   0 0.00   0   2   0
Hebert       STL    23   0   0   0 0.00   0   2   0
Tabaracci    WAS    23   0   0   0 0.00   0  12   0
Tugnutt      EDM    25   0   0   0 0.00   0   2   0
Caufield     PIT    26   0   0   0 0.00   0  60  -1
Hasek        BUF    27   0   0   0 0.00   0   0   0
Pietrangelo  HAR    30   0   0   0 0.00   0   4   0
Irbe         SJ     35   0   0   0 0.00   0  10   0
Terreri      NJ     47   0   0   0 0.00   0   6   0
Fuhr         BUF    56   0   0   0 0.00   0  10   0
Sidorkiewicz OTT    63   0   0   0 0.00   0   8   0
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-                                                                           -
-    Maurice Richard                                                        -
Organization: University of Maine System
From: The Always Fanatical: Patrick Ellis <IO11330@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bruins vs Canadiens:
<1993Apr16.235100.18268@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Lines: 18
un, you better add at least another plus to the Pederson
for Neely trade, the Bruins also received a number 1 round
draft pick, didn't play great this year but Wesley's still a
decent defenseman....  And the Bruins got Pederson back eventually
anyway.....
Pat Ellis
P.S.  GO BRUINS    GO UMAINE BLACK BEARS    42-1-2       NUMBER 1......
HOCKEY EAST REGULARS SEASON CHAMPIONS.....
HOCKEY EAST TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS>......
PAUL KARIYA, HOBEY BAKER AWARD WINNER.......
NCAA DIV. 1 HOCKEY TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
M-A-I-N-E      GGGGOOOOOOO    BBBLLLUUEEEE!
Organization: University of Maine System
From: The Always Fanatical: Patrick Ellis <IO11330@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Subject: Keenan signs, Plus WALSH????????
<1993Apr16.235100.18268@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
<93108.121926IO11330@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Lines: 25
Well I just read in the Boston Globe that while not confirming
(or denying) anything, Walsh may end up with the Rangers organizations
as an (assistant Coach?).  Keenan has talked with Walsh in the past
(he came up to see Kariya as he will be coaching him in the worlds,
funny I guess he got to watch the Ferraro brothers as well.....) I'm
not sure if walsh will go, but if Keenan is getting 700,000 and walsh
even gets 100,000 that's a 30% pay raise for walsh (not to mention
a nice career move....) Anyone from New York Hear anything about
this????????
Pat Ellis
P.S.  GO BRUINS    GO UMAINE BLACK BEARS    42-1-2       NUMBER 1......
HOCKEY EAST REGULARS SEASON CHAMPIONS.....
HOCKEY EAST TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS>......
PAUL KARIYA, HOBEY BAKER AWARD WINNER.......
NCAA DIV. 1 HOCKEY TOURNAMENT CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
M-A-I-N-E      GGGGOOOOOOO    BBBLLLUUEEEE!
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: div. and conf. names
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Distribution: na
Lines: 89
In <1993Apr18.073540.6871@hubcap.clemson.edu> jwodzia@dlite.uucp (john wodziak) writes:
>Sorry Roger but Mr Basketbal should what he really means here. IE he should
>have said that he hopes "fans in the _American_ Southeast can follow the
>names of the divisions." The odds that these people other than those who
>are displaced "Notherners" (who are probably already fans) is on the order
>of the proverbial snowball's in hell.
I am not at all clear about what you are trying to say here.   If  you
asked  somone,  who  had never heard of hockey before, if LA played in
the Smythe division what do you think  that  the  response  would  be?
What  if you asked this person if LA played in the West division?  The
naming of  divisions  after  long-dead  entrepreneurs  is  unnecessary
obfuscation.
>>I am glad that the names are being changed for another reason.  The names
>>Patrick, Smythe, Norris, Adams and Campbell are all the names of so-called
>>"builders" of the game.  This is the same type of thinking that put Stein
>>in the Hall of Fame.  This is absolute nonsense.  The real builders of the
>>game are Richard, Morenz, Howe, Conacher, Orr, etc.  If you are going to
>>name the divisions after people at least name the divisions after people
>>who deserve it.
>Yes these people deserve recognigtion as hockey greats but the old division
>names took into account Messers Patrick, Norris, Smythe and the Prince who
>had alot more to do with the ORIGINS of the league than people who came into
>an already established situation. It is much easier to be an element of change
Hardly.  The "established" situation existed prior to Smythe,  et  al.
The  Stanley  Cup was a challenge trophy up for grabs to whatever team
could successfully mount the challenge.  What our  dear  founders  did
was formalize the challenge.  They created a closed league, an oligop-
olistic professional system, in the interests of making money.  Wheth-
er  or  not  that system has contributed to better hockey is certainly
debatable.  We are, however, stuck with their invention and  that  de-
bate  is  academic.   The  point  to  be made, however, is that people
played hockey and people enjoyed watching hockey  long  before  Smythe
and his pals showed up.
>or a standout in an existing situation than it is to be someone who creates
>a new situation.  If you want to honor players like Bobby Orr than I'm sure
>you can find a reason to name a torphy after him such as best offensive
>defenseman.
What's wrong with best defenceman, period?  Was there  ever  a  better
defenceman?   Was  there  ever a better player?  And if you think that
Bruce Norris' contribution was somehow  more  significant  than  Bobby
Orr's  then,  in the interests of education, why don't you take a poll
and find out how many people know who Norris was?  But you don't  have
to, do you?
>No I can't for the reasons I gave above. I'm in the same boat as Jason and I
>grew up with the current divisonal names and learned them when I was about
>10 years old and who played in what division. If a 10 year old _American_
>can learn this why would it be hard for an "Occasional Fan" to pick up
>on who plays in what division?
So you don't feel that you should have to make the effort to  remember
that  Vancouver  plays in the West division?  (Or Pacific, or whatever
other intuitively understandable moniker is chosen.)
>>Oh.  Now I see your point.  Your intention has been to alert us to the erosion
>>of purity.  I'll bet you like hockey because it's, for the most part, played
>>by whites of European extraction.
>Probably not. In my case I'm sure of this. What you said would be like me
>saying that All Maple Leafs fans are as biased, closed minded, ignorant,
And of course you neatly deleted Jason's  jingoistic  rant  about  the
game  losing  its  "Canadianization".   Quoting me out of context does
more to erode your credibility than it  does  mine.   My  position  is
clearly  progressive  and  is anything but "biased, closed minded, ig-
norant".  Arrogant, I will grant you.
>arrogant, and moronic as you.  Just because someone A) doesn't like what
>Mr Basketball is doing, B) voices their opinion. and C) Likes the senerio of
>you going to Antartica does not mean that you have the right to insult them.
Nice try John.  But for a flame to be truly effective you have to
display  at  least  enough  intelligence  to  earn  your target's
respect.
cordially, as always,
rm
--
Roger Maynard
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: mmb@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Michael Burger)
Subject: TEAM POOL - Tabulations
Nntp-Posting-Host: lamar.acns.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523
Lines: 40
Thanks for the 41 people who have entered this year's TEAM POOL.
Here is a summary of what was picked:
1st Round:
Pittsburgh 41, New Jersey 0
Chicago 40, St. Louis 1
Boston 40, Buffalo 1
Vancouver 30, Winnipeg 11
Calgary 27, Los Angeles 14
Detroit 26, Toronto 15
Washington 24, New York Islanders 15 (2 people picked New Jersey)
Quebec 23, Montreal 18
2nd Round:
Pittsburgh 38, Washington 2, New York Islanders 1
Boston 31, Quebec 6, Montreal 4
Detroit 21, Chicago 15, Toronto 5
Calgary 18, Vancouver 14, Los Angeles 8, Winnipeg 1
3rd Round:
Pittsburgh 31, Boston 7, Quebec 2, Washington 1
Detroit 18, Chicago 11, Toronto 5, Vancouver 3, Calgary 2, Los Angeles 2
Finals:
Pittsburgh 26, Boston 5, Detroit 4, Toronto 2, Quebec 2, Los Angeles 1, Chicago
1
Good luck to all!
*******************************************************************************
*  Mike Burger                    *  My Canada includes, Quebec, Ontario,     *
*  mmb@lamar.colostate.edu        *  the Maritimes, the Prairies, and Florida *
*  A Beginning Computing TA Stud  *  four months a year.                      *
*  over 500 students served       *    --Royal Canadian Air Farce             *
*******************************************************************************
*      University of Michigan - 1990  --  Colorado State University - 199?    *
*******************************************************************************
From: nittmo@camelot.bradley.edu (Christopher Taylor)
Subject: Anyone Have Official Shorthanded Goal Totals?
Nntp-Posting-Host: camelot.bradley.edu
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: na
Lines: 4
Does anyone out there have the shorthanded goal totals of the NHL players
for this season?  We're trying to finish our rotisserie stats and need SHG
to make it complete.
From: holland@geop.ubc.ca (Stephen Holland)
Subject: Re: My Predictions of a classic playoff year!
Organization: Geophysics & Astronomy, U.B.C. Vancouver, Canada
Lines: 20
Distribution: world
Reply-To: holland@geop.ubc.ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: crisium.astro.ubc.ca
In article 12934@ac.dal.ca, 06paul@ac.dal.ca () writes:
>
>	STANLEY CUP FINALS
>Toronto Maple Leafs    vs    Montreal Canadiens
>	(The Classic Stanley Cup Final matchup!!) <---also a dream come true!
>	Montreal wins the Stanley cup in the 7th game 1 - 0 in double overtime.
You know... after I finished laughing I thought:  This would be a great
final.  Two Canadian teams with lots of tradition and all that Don Cherry
nonsense behind them and a nail-biter finish.
Of course, I would prefer a Vancouver--Montreal final with Vancouver
scoring the final goal....
Pity neither will happen.
steve holland
From: Karim Edvard Ahmed <ka0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Truly a sad day for hockey
Organization: Senior, Economics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 17
NNTP-Posting-Host: po5.andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <1993Apr16.031823.11861@news.stolaf.edu>
>A fine 26 year history came to a close tonight, as the Minnesota North Stars,
>or Norm's Stars (whichever you prefer) lost to the Red Wings by a score of
>5-3.  The Stars goals were scored by Mike McPhee and Ulf Dahlen, who netted
>two including the final one in franchise history, with less than a minute to
>play.
Yes, it's a shame that the NHL lost a fine team in one of the best
hockey markets in the country.  Being a North Stars fan, it is sad to
see all of the tradition of the last 26 years get thrown into oblivion
at the hands of a truly crappy owner.
Hopefully the NHL will install an expansion franchise in the Twin Cities
within the next five years.  Even if this is the case, a lot has been
lost in the North Stars move...
KEA
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Possible Canadian WC Team?
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Lines: 17
nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>
>CENTERS
>Mark Messier, N. Y. Rangers
Messier was not invited due to his nagging injuries.  While the press
made an issue of it, and attempted to link it to the Rangers' internal
political woes, Mike Keenan repeated that to Messier personally during
the MSG press conference.  It makes sense ... Messier would probably
have not declined the invitation if it were made for publicity ...
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: dmoney@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dean R Money)
Subject: How difficult is it to get Penguin tickets?
Nntp-Posting-Host: bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
Lines: 6
The subject line says it all.  Is it terribly difficult to get tickets
to Penguins games, especially now that they are in the playoffs?  Would
it be easy to find scalpers outside of the Igloo selling tickets?
Dean Money
dmoney@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
From: andrew@idacom.hp.com (Andrew Scott)
Subject: USENET Hockey Draft week 27 standings
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, IDACOM Telecommunications Division
Lines: 276
Well, I'm back from Tokyo, so here are the standings after the April 13 update.
- Andrew
USENET Hockey Draft Standings
Week 27
Posn	Team				Pts	Proj	Cash	Last Posn
1.	Dave Wessels                    1536	1572.8	1.9	(1)
2.	Bob Hill                        1481	1538.1	24.0	(3)
3.	Gilles Carmel                   1492	1529.9	1.0	(2)
4.	Seppo Kemppainen                1430	1514.0	47.2	(5)
5.	The Awesome Oilers              1412	1504.4	68.6	(4)
6.	Hillside Raiders                1456	1495.2	7.0	(7)
7.	Mak "The Knife" Paranjape       1424	1491.7	31.0	(6)
8.	Jan Stein                       1412	1483.2	35.3	(8)
9.	this years model                1428	1479.3	17.6	(10)
10.	Rangers Of Destiny              1401	1475.9	42.0	(9)
Tapio Repo                      1422	1475.9	19.6	(11)
12.	FRANK'S BIG FISH                1398	1453.9	22.0	(12)
13.	The Underachievers              1409	1452.9	10.1	(13)
14.	On Thin Ice                     1380	1440.9	32.3	(14)
15.	Go Flames                       1367	1438.1	40.3	(17)
16.	littlest giants                 1370	1437.7	35.6	(16)
17.	Mopar Muscle Men                1400	1431.4	3.7	(18)
18.	Lindros Losers                  1396	1431.2	1.7	(15)
19.	DIE Penguin Bandwaggoners       1357	1411.0	20.2	(19)
20.	Samuel Lau (Calgary, Alberta)   1360	1396.3	4.9	(20)
21.	Boomer's Boys                   1341	1371.6	0.2	(23)
22.	General Accounting Office       1316	1369.4	20.9	(21)
23.	Delaware Wombats                1341	1367.5	1.3	(24)
24.	Migods Menschen                 1307	1366.8	31.6	(22)
25.	Wellsy's Buttheads DEC NH       1280	1362.3	52.6	(25)
26.	Rocky Mountain High             1325	1357.2	1.8	(26)
27.	Fife Flyers                     1283	1348.4	31.4	(27)
28.	Gerald Olchowy                  1275	1340.2	33.7	(28)
29.	Dave Snell                      1281	1335.7	25.0	(59)
30.	Fluide Glacial                  1291	1333.7	18.0	(29)
31.	Gaoler                          1279	1321.5	11.2	(30)
32.	SmegHeads                       1289	1315.8	0.3	(31)
33.	The Young And The Skateless     1235	1305.6	42.9	(32)
34.	Sam & His Dogs                  1262	1297.3	11.6	(34)
35.	Neural Netters                  1251	1294.2	11.3	(35)
36.	Youngbucs                       1206	1288.1	101.7	(36)
37.	Artic Storm                     1220	1287.7	39.3	(33)
38.	Soft Swedes                     1205	1281.5	46.9	(37)
39.	Jeff Horvath                    1239	1268.6	5.6	(38)
40.	Milton Keynes Kings             1229	1262.5	2.8	(40)
41.	Hamster from Hoboken            1223	1257.0	8.7	(41)
Kuehn Crushers                  1185	1257.0	45.1	(45)
43.	Le Fleur de Lys                 1202	1256.9	25.3	(42)
44.	Yan The Man Loke                1225	1255.5	0.7	(39)
45.	Legion of Hoth                  1208	1251.1	15.8	(48)
46.	Simmonac                        1169	1249.4	87.6	(44)
47.	The Finnish Force               1192	1245.1	22.5	(46)
48.	ice legion                      1193	1244.8	28.8	(43)
49.	Streaks                         1161	1242.8	54.8	(47)
50.	Brian Bergman                   1190	1241.0	23.3	(55)
51.	Goaldingers                     1190	1239.3	22.0	(49)
52.	T C OverAchievers               1209	1237.0	2.9	(52)
53.	Grant Marven                    1196	1231.2	2.9	(50)
54.	Bozrah Bruins                   1155	1223.9	45.2	(54)
55.	Real Bad Toe Jam                1150	1223.4	48.9	(62)
56.	Houdini's Magicians             1181	1222.4	18.3	(61)
57.	Skriko Wolves                   1186	1221.5	5.4	(53)
58.	rec.sport.hockey choices        1196	1221.1	1.3	(63)
59.	buffalo soldiers                1142	1220.3	62.1	(65)
60.	bemybaby                        1140	1219.9	54.2	(51)
61.	LIPPE                           1179	1215.2	13.9	(56)
62.	Randy Coulman                   1185	1214.8	5.2	(57)
63.	LAMP LIGHTERS                   1180	1211.6	5.9	(58)
64.	Steven And Mark Dream Team      1174	1206.2	3.1	(60)
65.	Indianapolis Bennies            1160	1205.4	20.8	(66)
66.	Tom                             1160	1202.8	13.1	(68)
67.	Bloom County All Stars          1164	1198.8	4.3	(67)
68.	Bruins                          1174	1198.5	0.1	(72)
69.	Phil and Kev's Karma Dudes      1172	1198.0	0.8	(69)
70.	smithw                          1146	1194.5	21.0	(73)
71.	Iowa Hockeyes                   1149	1193.8	16.3	(64)
72.	Doug Bowles                     1146	1190.6	20.0	(71)
73.	The Great Pumpkin               1108	1187.3	54.4	(74)
74.	NON!                            1145	1186.4	16.4	(77)
75.	shooting seamen                 1161	1183.3	0.1	(75)
76.	Frank Worthless                 1149	1182.7	6.3	(76)
77.	AIK Exiles                      1116	1179.8	34.5	(70)
78.	Invisible Inc                   1156	1177.4	1.1	(78)
79.	Brad Gibson                     1126	1176.9	27.2	(79)
80.	Cougarmania                     1114	1165.7	24.8	(88)
81.	Kortelaisen Kovat               1086	1165.2	164.1	(85)
82.	PLP Fools                       1135	1163.1	0.1	(81)
83.	David Wong                      1082	1161.6	66.1	(84)
84.	John Zupancic                   1102	1160.7	27.1	(82)
85.	garryola                        1121	1159.4	9.7	(89)
86.	Gary Bergman Fan Club           1128	1157.6	5.1	(93)
87.	Staffan Axelsson                1120	1157.1	15.1	(83)
88.	Chubby Checkers                 1110	1156.2	16.3	(80)
89.	Derrill's Dastardly Dozen       1109	1155.0	22.1	(90)
90.	Chocolate Rockets               1121	1150.7	2.5	(86)
91.	Ken DeCruyenaere                1113	1147.9	5.0	(87)
92.	Fisher Dirtbags                 1119	1147.4	0.7	(94)
93.	KODIAKS                         1122	1146.0	1.3	(95)
94.	No Namers                       1067	1145.8	58.2	(91)
95.	The Campi Machine               1061	1145.2	65.3	(92)
96.	BSC Oranienburg                 1115	1142.4	7.1	(98)
97.	The Kamucks                     1064	1141.5	76.1	(97)
98.	Arsenal Maple Leafs             1108	1138.4	3.8	(96)
99.	Ellis Islanders                 1096	1128.0	7.6	(100)
100.	Mombasa Mosquitos               1090	1122.4	6.1	(101)
101.	Zachmans Wingers                1051	1122.1	49.8	(103)
102.	Edelweiss                       1091	1121.0	2.9	(102)
103.	Bjoern Leaguen                  1039	1118.5	61.4	(112)
104.	Dirty White Socks               1050	1116.5	43.4	(105)
105.	Wormtown Woosbags               1039	1116.1	72.6	(104)
106.	Neil Younger                    1036	1115.0	77.7	(114)
107.	Hurricane Andrew                1082	1114.8	7.6	(106)
108.	King Suke                       1089	1114.5	0.1	(110)
109.	Larry                           1078	1114.3	11.8	(107)
110.	Het Schot Is Hard               1076	1113.6	18.1	(115)
111.	VoteNoOct26                     1056	1112.6	31.8	(108)
112.	Bloodgamers                     1046	1111.6	42.1	(99)
Bruce's Rented Mules            1077	1111.6	11.9	(108)
114.	Teem Kanada                     1075	1110.6	16.0	(111)
115.	Frank's Follies                 1063	1106.5	24.2	(113)
116.	Oklahoma Stormchasers           1053	1103.6	28.3	(121)
117.	SPUDS                           1068	1103.4	12.6	(119)
118.	Pond Slime                      1081	1102.3	0.7	(117)
119.	PSV Dartmouth                   1071	1101.4	7.1	(116)
120.	Mark Sanders                    1065	1099.2	11.1	(120)
121.	Blue Talon                      1062	1096.5	13.3	(126)
122.	Stanford Ice Hawks              1043	1094.7	28.2	(118)
123.	Aye Carumba!!!                  1063	1089.6	3.9	(124)
124.	Kokudo Keikaku Bunnies          1021	1088.0	40.3	(125)
125.	Timo Ojala                      1059	1085.7	0.3	(122)
126.	Haral                           1057	1085.3	7.3	(128)
127.	Cluster Buster                  1048	1083.4	7.6	(136)
128.	Dirty Rotten Puckers            1054	1082.7	1.2	(135)
129.	Apricot Fuzzfaces               1037	1081.1	23.3	(127)
130.	The Lost Poots                  1048	1080.5	6.7	(132)
131.	Nesbitt                         1058	1078.6	1.1	(123)
132.	Gary Bill Pens Dynasty          1035	1077.8	19.6	(144)
133.	garys team                      1035	1076.2	17.1	(129)
134.	Arctic Circles                  1012	1074.1	37.6	(131)
135.	Seattle PFTB                    1028	1074.0	22.9	(132)
136.	Late Night with David Letterman 1049	1073.7	0.0	(130)
137.	Le Groupe MI                    1020	1073.2	30.2	(141)
138.	GO BRUINS                       1046	1072.7	6.2	(140)
139.	Scott Glenn                     1038	1069.7	10.2	(138)
140.	Flying Kiwis                    1035	1068.7	9.1	(136)
141.	team gold                       1029	1067.4	16.7	(142)
142.	Closet Boy's Boys               995	1064.6	48.0	(143)
143.	Wild Hearted Sons               1036	1064.4	4.9	(153)
144.	boutch 92-93                    1023	1063.2	20.0	(134)
145.	Andy Y F WONG                   1019	1062.6	21.5	(147)
Wembley LostWeekenders          1040	1062.6	0.3	(152)
147.	McKees Rocks Rockers            1036	1062.4	5.1	(144)
148.	Book 'em Danno's Bushbabies     1032	1062.1	10.5	(163)
149.	Dree Hobbs                      1020	1060.2	13.4	(139)
150.	GO HABS GO                      1027	1058.1	8.0	(151)
151.	Goddess Of Fermentation         1005	1057.8	30.2	(156)
152.	Tim Rogers                      1024	1056.8	8.1	(146)
153.	convex stars                    1026	1055.9	5.6	(160)
154.	Einstein's Rock Band            1033	1055.7	0.0	(154)
155.	Princeton Canucks               979	1055.5	124.2	(150)
156.	Tap                             1028	1055.2	0.5	(155)
157.	Hubert's Hockey Homeboys        1030	1053.9	0.6	(163)
Buttered Waffles                981	1053.9	46.0	(148)
159.	MY TEAM                         977	1052.0	174.8	(162)
160.	Bob's Blues                     980	1050.9	46.8	(149)
161.	furleys furies                  1021	1046.6	3.6	(159)
162.	HUNTERS & COLLECTORS            982	1045.9	42.4	(157)
Les Nordiques                   974	1045.9	60.4	(161)
164.	Satan's Choice                  1012	1045.3	14.5	(173)
165.	Dr Joel Fleishman               1020	1043.9	3.7	(158)
166.	Sundogs                         1017	1040.9	0.4	(166)
167.	Pierre Mailhot                  1017	1039.9	2.6	(175)
168.	Slap Shot Marco                 966	1037.8	51.8	(168)
169.	San Jose Mahi Mahi              989	1037.6	31.8	(178)
170.	The Leafs Rule!!!!              990	1037.3	25.8	(174)
171.	Jeff Nimeroff                   963	1036.5	48.8	(167)
172.	Stimpy ADG Zeta                 996	1035.2	21.0	(178)
173.	The Dreamers                    958	1034.6	63.7	(170)
174.	East City Jokers                956	1033.7	69.1	(171)
175.	Daryl Turner                    1008	1033.1	2.4	(169)
176.	riding the pine                 988	1031.8	20.7	(165)
177.	Flowers                         957	1030.4	113.6	(172)
178.	Darse Billings                  975	1029.3	34.7	(185)
179.	Chappel's Chumps                984	1027.9	24.0	(186)
180.	LANA Inc                        982	1027.2	27.3	(182)
181.	Spinal Tap                      963	1026.6	41.4	(177)
182.	JimParker                       949	1025.9	179.0	(187)
183.	Enforcers                       980	1023.9	28.1	(189)
184.	Jeff Bachovchin                 949	1020.7	46.7	(180)
Big Bad Bruins                  981	1020.7	18.5	(183)
186.	Mike Mac Cormack Sydney NS CAN  944	1020.6	107.2	(184)
187.	Bulldogs                        973	1019.7	23.4	(181)
188.	voyageurs                       996	1017.2	2.7	(176)
189.	Absolut Lehigh                  984	1015.4	8.9	(190)
190.	Republican Dirty Tricksters     930	1010.4	66.0	(188)
191.	Henry's Bar B Q                 990	1007.7	0.7	(197)
192.	Dr.D And The S.O.D.             968	1007.3	17.1	(192)
193.	Bunch of Misfits                957	1006.9	23.8	(193)
194.	Robyns Team                     955	1005.5	30.0	(198)
195.	Yellow Plague                   969	1003.4	14.2	(191)
196.	Ninja Turtles                   982	1003.0	1.3	(194)
197.	Team Melville                   930	999.1	46.9	(199)
198.	Acadien                         962	998.6	18.3	(201)
199.	DARMAN'S Dragons                950	998.4	28.3	(209)
200.	Kuta Papercuts                  961	998.2	18.5	(207)
201.	Great Expectations              972	998.0	2.3	(195)
202.	Cobra's Killers                 942	996.4	31.7	(205)
203.	Cherry Bombers                  971	995.6	1.2	(196)
204.	Jayson's Kinky Pucks            943	989.9	26.9	(204)
205.	Killer Apes                     947	989.7	24.3	(208)
206.	Kaufbeuren Icebreakers          929	989.1	37.6	(202)
207.	Umpire 4 life                   950	987.8	11.1	(200)
208.	Roger Smith                     927	987.0	39.6	(210)
209.	Firebirds                       960	983.8	3.9	(203)
210.	Those 1st few weeks hurt!       905	982.9	55.9	(211)
211.	IKEA Wholesale                  958	982.0	1.7	(213)
212.	Outlaws                         903	975.6	164.9	(206)
213.	The 200 Club                    944	969.4	6.8	(219)
214.	Thundering Herd                 887	966.7	163.6	(212)
215.	Believe it or dont              926	966.6	21.1	(214)
216.	Creeping Death                  924	965.7	21.3	(217)
217.	Knee Injuries                   932	965.6	10.4	(218)
218.	Crazy Euros                     927	965.3	17.9	(220)
219.	Frack Attack                    918	965.0	27.3	(221)
Todd's Turkeys                  942	965.0	1.9	(222)
221.	Ryan's Renegades                893	961.7	50.9	(223)
222.	fred mckim                      889	961.5	93.0	(215)
223.	400 Hurricane                   909	960.4	32.1	(216)
224.	pig vomit                       936	958.3	1.3	(225)
225.	Ice Strykers                    882	955.4	105.4	(226)
226.	Fighting Geordies               882	953.7	141.6	(227)
227.	CDN Stuck in Alabama            925	951.6	10.3	(228)
228.	dayton bomber                   932	951.5	0.0	(236)
229.	Cafall and Crew                 892	948.2	38.3	(224)
230.	Chris of Death                  872	945.0	83.6	(232)
231.	Swillbellies                    902	941.9	18.7	(230)
232.	Banko's Beer Rangers            913	940.4	4.2	(233)
Zipper Heads                    892	940.4	33.9	(237)
234.	NY Flames                       907	938.8	7.8	(234)
235.	Ship's Way                      913	938.7	8.7	(229)
236.	Laubsters II                    861	937.6	201.6	(235)
237.	Oz                              878	934.1	35.0	(231)
238.	Joliet Inmates                  872	933.5	45.8	(239)
239.	Ninja Bunnies                   858	925.9	44.9	(238)
240.	Great Scott                     853	924.6	73.3	(242)
241.	Widefield White Wolves          861	919.7	36.9	(240)
242.	The Ice Holes                   890	912.7	2.7	(246)
243.	SANDY'S SABRES                  886	910.8	4.7	(244)
244.	Daves Team                      858	910.7	32.0	(241)
245.	South Carolina Tiger Paws       835	909.0	78.4	(243)
246.	Florida Tech Burgh Team         844	908.9	49.3	(245)
247.	Leos Blue Chips                 874	902.5	10.4	(247)
248.	For xtc                         874	900.0	8.2	(248)
249.	roadrunners                     861	899.7	18.5	(249)
250.	Mudville Kings                  851	897.8	27.6	(250)
251.	New Jersey Rob                  876	894.2	0.7	(253)
252.	Redliners                       856	893.3	15.9	(251)
253.	Pat Phillips                    859	887.6	10.1	(252)
254.	Stewart Clamen                  851	869.6	1.6	(254)
255.	Demon Spawn                     820	866.1	25.0	(255)
256.	Sunnyvale Storm                 804	818.4	0.2	(256)
257.	Allez les Blues                 738	809.1	476.9	(257)
258.	Up For Sale Hockey Club         749	789.4	23.0	(258)
259.	Petes Picks                     721	788.0	168.5	(259)
260.	RINACO                          709	781.8	114.0	(260)
261.	Brenz Revenge                   691	713.3	4.0	(261)
262.	Dinamo Riga                     595	663.9	571.6	(262)
--
Andrew Scott                    | andrew@idacom.hp.com
HP IDACOM Telecom Operation     | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253
During the Roman Era, 28 was considered old...
From: andrew@idacom.hp.com (Andrew Scott)
Subject: USENET Hockey Draft week 27 price list
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, IDACOM Telecommunications Division
Lines: 264
Here is the price list for the week April 13 to April 19.
- Andrew
Buy	Sell	Pts	Team	Player
158.9	143.0	157	PIT	Mario_Lemieux
148.5	133.7	145	BUF	Pat_LaFontaine
142.7	128.4	141	BOS	Adam_Oates
137.6	123.8	136	DET	Steve_Yzerman
132.1	118.9	129	WPG	Teemu_Selanne
131.7	118.5	127	NYI	Pierre_Turgeon
130.1	117.1	127	TOR	Doug_Gilmour
126.0	113.4	123	BUF	Alexander_Mogilny
123.4	111.1	119	PHI	Mark_Recchi
121.9	109.7	119	LA	Luc_Robitaille
113.3	102.0	112	QUE	Mats_Sundin
111.3	100.2	110	PIT	Kevin_Stevens
110.6	99.5	108	VAN	Pavel_Bure
108.6	97.7	106	STL	Craig_Janney
108.3	97.5	107	PIT	Rick_Tocchet
107.6	96.8	105	CHI	Jeremy_Roenick
105.3	94.8	104	QUE	Joe_Sakic
103.5	93.2	101	STL	Brett_Hull
102.4	92.2	100	CGY	Theoren_Fleury
101.2	91.1	100	PIT	Ron_Francis
100.4	90.4	98	TOR	Dave_Andreychuk
100.2	90.2	99	BOS	Joe_Juneau
98.3	88.5	96	WPG	Phil_Housley
98.3	88.5	96	MTL	Vincent_Damphousse
96.3	86.7	94	MTL	Kirk_Muller
96.1	86.5	95	DET	Dino_Ciccarelli
95.3	85.8	93	BUF	Dale_Hawerchuk
95.3	85.8	93	MIN	Mike_Modano
94.4	85.0	91	NYR	Mark_Messier
93.2	83.9	91	STL	Brendan_Shanahan
93.1	83.8	92	PIT	Jaromir_Jagr
88.1	79.3	86	MTL	Brian_Bellows
88.1	79.3	86	LA	Jari_Kurri
88.0	79.2	87	DET	Sergei_Fedorov
87.1	78.4	85	CGY	Robert_Reichel
87.0	78.3	86	DET	Paul_Coffey
86.1	77.5	83	WSH	Peter_Bondra
86.1	77.5	83	HFD	Geoff_Sanderson
86.0	77.4	84	TB	Brian_Bradley
85.0	76.5	82	NYI	Steve_Thomas
84.0	75.6	83	PIT	Larry_Murphy
84.0	75.6	81	PHI	Rod_Brind'Amour
83.0	74.7	82	BOS	Ray_Bourque
83.0	74.7	82	QUE	Steve_Duchesne
83.0	74.7	80	HFD	Andrew_Cassels
82.0	73.8	80	LA	Tony_Granato
81.9	73.7	79	WSH	Dale_Hunter
81.9	73.7	79	WSH	Mike_Ridley
80.9	72.8	78	HFD	Pat_Verbeek
80.9	72.8	79	MTL	Stephan_Lebeau
80.9	72.8	79	CGY	Gary_Suter
78.9	71.0	77	VAN	Cliff_Ronning
78.9	71.0	77	NJ	Claude_Lemieux
78.9	71.0	78	QUE	Mike_Ricci
77.9	70.1	76	VAN	Murray_Craven
77.9	70.1	76	STL	Jeff_Brown
77.8	70.0	75	WSH	Kevin_Hatcher
77.8	70.0	75	NYR	Tony_Amonte
76.9	69.2	76	SJ	Kelly_Kisio
76.8	69.1	75	NJ	Alexander_Semak
76.8	69.1	75	MIN	Russ_Courtnall
75.8	68.2	74	MIN	Dave_Gagner
75.8	68.2	74	TOR	Nikolai_Borschevsky
75.7	68.1	73	PHI	Eric_Lindros
74.8	67.3	73	LA	Jimmy_Carson
73.8	66.4	72	CGY	Joe_Nieuwendyk
73.8	66.4	72	VAN	Geoff_Courtnall
73.8	66.4	72	MIN	Ulf_Dahlen
73.6	66.2	71	NYI	Derek_King
73.6	66.2	71	WSH	Michal_Pivonka
72.9	65.6	72	QUE	Owen_Nolan
72.9	65.6	72	BOS	Dmitri_Kvartalnov
72.7	65.4	71	STL	Nelson_Emerson
72.7	65.4	71	CHI	Chris_Chelios
72.6	65.3	70	NYI	Benoit_Hogue
71.7	64.5	70	NJ	Stephane_Richer
71.7	64.5	70	WPG	Thomas_Steen
71.7	64.5	70	WPG	Alexei_Zhamnov
71.7	64.5	70	CHI	Steve_Larmer
69.8	62.8	69	PIT	Joe_Mullen
69.5	62.6	67	NYR	Mike_Gartner
68.6	61.7	67	VAN	Petr_Nedved
68.6	61.7	67	VAN	Trevor_Linden
68.6	61.7	67	LA	Mike_Donnelly
68.4	61.6	66	WSH	Dmitri_Khristich
68.4	61.6	66	WSH	Al_Iafrate
66.8	60.1	66	DET	Ray_Sheppard
66.8	60.1	66	QUE	Andrei_Kovalenko
66.4	59.8	64	HFD	Zarley_Zalapski
66.4	59.8	64	NYR	Adam_Graves
65.8	59.2	65	SJ	Johan_Garpenlov
64.5	58.1	63	TOR	Glenn_Anderson
63.5	57.2	62	LA	Wayne_Gretzky
63.5	57.2	62	OTT	Norm_Maciver
62.2	56.0	60	PHI	Garry_Galley
61.7	55.5	61	DET	Steve_Chiasson
61.7	55.5	61	DET	Paul_Ysebaert
61.5	55.4	60	NJ	Valeri_Zelepukin
61.5	55.4	60	MTL	Mike_Keane
61.2	55.1	59	PHI	Brent_Fedyk
60.7	54.6	60	PIT	Shawn_McEachern
60.4	54.4	59	LA	Rob_Blake
60.1	54.1	58	NYI	Pat_Flatley
59.7	53.7	59	QUE	Scott_Young
59.4	53.5	58	WPG	Darrin_Shannon
59.1	53.2	57	PHI	Kevin_Dineen
58.4	52.6	57	NJ	Bernie_Nicholls
58.4	52.6	57	CGY	Sergei_Makarov
58.4	52.6	57	CHI	Steve_Smith
58.1	52.3	56	WSH	Pat_Elynuik
57.4	51.7	56	VAN	Greg_Adams
57.4	51.7	56	NJ	Scott_Stevens
57.4	51.7	56	TB	John_Tucker
56.3	50.7	55	WPG	Fredrik_Olausson
56.0	50.4	54	NYR	Sergei_Nemchinov
55.0	49.5	53	NYR	Darren_Turcotte
55.0	48.9	53	CGY	Al_MacInnis
55.0	48.9	53	CHI	Christian_Ruuttu
55.0	48.0	52	CHI	Brent_Sutter
55.0	47.6	51	HFD	Terry_Yake
55.0	47.0	51	VAN	Dixon_Ward
55.0	47.0	51	WPG	Keith_Tkachuk
55.0	46.4	51	BOS	Stephen_Leach
55.0	46.1	50	TOR	John_Cullen
55.0	46.1	50	MTL	Denis_Savard
55.0	45.7	49	NYR	Ed_Olczyk
55.0	45.2	49	VAN	Anatoli_Semenov
55.0	44.8	48	WSH	Sylvain_Cote
55.0	44.8	48	NYI	Vladimir_Malakhov
55.0	44.8	48	NYI	Jeff_Norton
55.0	44.8	48	HFD	Patrick_Poulin
55.0	44.6	49	BOS	Dave_Poulin
55.0	44.3	48	LA	Tomas_Sandstrom
55.0	44.3	48	EDM	Petr_Klima
55.0	44.3	48	NJ	John_MacLean
55.0	44.3	48	EDM	Doug_Weight
55.0	43.3	47	MTL	Gilbert_Dionne
55.0	43.3	47	LA	Alexei_Zhitnik
55.0	43.3	47	EDM	Shayne_Corson
55.0	42.8	47	QUE	Martin_Rucinsky
55.0	42.4	46	WPG	Evgeny_Davydov
55.0	42.4	46	STL	Kevin_Miller
55.0	42.4	46	EDM	Craig_Simpson
55.0	42.0	45	WSH	Kelly_Miller
55.0	42.0	45	PHI	Pelle_Eklund
55.0	40.6	44	CHI	Michel_Goulet
55.0	40.6	44	EDM	Dave_Manson
55.0	39.6	43	OTT	Sylvain_Turgeon
55.0	38.7	42	CGY	Paul_Ranheim
55.0	38.7	42	MTL	Mathieu_Schneider
55.0	38.7	42	MIN	Mark_Tinordi
55.0	38.3	42	DET	Bob_Probert
55.0	37.8	41	EDM	Todd_Elik
55.0	37.4	40	NYR	Esa_Tikkanen
55.0	37.4	41	BOS	Vladimir_Ruzicka
55.0	36.9	40	OTT	Bob_Kudelski
55.0	36.9	40	NJ	Peter_Stastny
55.0	36.9	40	TOR	Dave_Ellett
55.0	36.9	40	OTT	Brad_Shaw
55.0	36.5	40	DET	Niklas_Lidstrom
55.0	36.0	39	NJ	Bobby_Holik
55.0	36.0	39	TOR	Wendel_Clark
55.0	35.5	38	NYR	Alexei_Kovalev
55.0	35.0	38	BUF	Yuri_Khmylev
55.0	35.0	38	MIN	Mike_McPhee
55.0	34.1	37	TOR	Rob_Pearson
55.0	34.1	37	VAN	Sergio_Momesso
55.0	33.6	36	NYR	Brian_Leetch
55.0	33.2	36	CHI	Dirk_Graham
55.0	33.2	36	TB	Adam_Creighton
55.0	32.8	36	QUE	Valery_Kamensky
55.0	32.3	35	EDM	Zdeno_Ciger
55.0	32.3	35	LA	Corey_Millen
55.0	31.9	35	BOS	Ted_Donato
55.0	31.3	34	TOR	Peter_Zezel
55.0	30.4	33	MIN	Neal_Broten
55.0	29.5	32	MTL	Gary_Leeman
55.0	29.5	32	EDM	Scott_Mellanby
55.0	29.5	32	BUF	Wayne_Presley
55.0	29.2	32	DET	Keith_Primeau
55.0	28.9	31	NYI	Brian_Mullen
55.0	28.9	31	PHI	Josef_Beranek
55.0	28.6	31	CHI	Stephane_Matteau
55.0	28.3	31	BOS	Steve_Heinze
55.0	28.0	30	PHI	Dmitri_Yushkevich
55.0	28.0	30	HFD	Mikael_Nylander
55.0	27.6	30	BUF	Richard_Smehlik
55.0	27.6	30	TOR	Dmitri_Mironov
55.0	25.8	28	CHI	Brian_Noonan
55.0	25.5	28	SJ	Pat_Falloon
55.0	24.9	27	STL	Igor_Korolev
55.0	24.3	26	WSH	Bob_Carpenter
55.0	24.3	26	NYR	James_Patrick
55.0	23.9	26	BUF	Petr_Svoboda
55.0	23.0	25	OTT	Mark_Lamb
55.0	22.4	24	NYI	Scott_LaChance
55.0	22.1	24	MTL	Benoit_Brunet
55.0	22.1	24	TB	Mikael_Andersson
55.0	21.2	23	EDM	Martin_Gelinas
55.0	21.2	23	WPG	Sergei_Bautin
55.0	21.2	23	TOR	Bill_Berg
55.0	21.2	23	EDM	Kevin_Todd
55.0	19.6	21	NYI	David_Volek
55.0	19.6	21	NYI	Ray_Ferraro
55.0	19.4	21	MIN	Brent_Gilchrist
55.0	18.6	20	HFD	Yvon_Corriveau
55.0	18.6	20	NYR	Phil_Bourque
55.0	18.6	20	NYI	Darius_Kasparaitis
55.0	18.2	20	DET	Jim_Hiller
55.0	17.7	19	PHI	Andrei_Lomakin
55.0	17.6	19	BUF	Donald_Audette
55.0	16.6	18	TB	Roman_Hamrlik
55.0	15.5	17	BOS	Cam_Neely
55.0	15.5	17	SJ	Mark_Pederson
55.0	14.6	16	PIT	Martin_Straka
55.0	13.9	15	CHI	Joe_Murphy
55.0	12.2	13	NYR	Peter_Andersson
55.0	12.0	13	OTT	Tomas_Jelinek
55.0	12.0	13	NJ	Janne_Ojanen
55.0	10.2	11	TB	Steve_Kasper
55.0	10.2	11	MIN	Bobby_Smith
55.0	9.1	10	SJ	Ray_Whitney
55.0	8.4	9	HFD	Robert_Petrovicky
55.0	8.3	9	BUF	Viktor_Gordijuk
55.0	7.4	8	TOR	Joe_Sacco
55.0	7.3	8	QUE	Mikhail_Tatarinov
55.0	7.3	8	SJ	Peter_Ahola
55.0	6.5	7	CHI	Rob_Brown
55.0	6.4	7	BOS	Glen_Murray
55.0	5.6	6	HFD	Tim_Kerr
55.0	5.5	6	MIN	Brian_Propp
55.0	4.7	5	WSH	Reggie_Savage
55.0	4.6	5	STL	Vitali_Prokhorov
55.0	4.6	5	LA	Robert_Lang
55.0	4.6	5	EDM	Shaun_Van_Allen
55.0	3.7	4	MIN	Dan_Quinn
55.0	3.6	4	DET	Viacheslav_Kozlov
55.0	3.6	4	BOS	Jozef_Stumpel
55.0	3.6	4	PIT	Bryan_Fogarty
55.0	2.8	3	MTL	Olav_Petrov
55.0	2.8	3	TB	Stan_Drulia
55.0	1.9	2	WSH	Jason_Woolley
55.0	1.8	2	NJ	Claude_Vilgrain
55.0	0.0	0	MTL	Patrick_Kjellberg
55.0	0.0	0	OTT	Alexei_Yashin
55.0	0.0	0	WSH	Randy_Burridge
55.0	0.0	0	EDM	Dean_McAmmond
55.0	0.0	0	CGY	Cory_Stillman
55.0	0.0	0	TB	Brent_Gretzky
55.0	0.0	0	BUF	Jason_Dawe
55.0	0.0	0	WSH	Brian_Sakic
55.0	0.0	0	VAN	Igor_Larionov
55.0	0.0	0	CHI	Sergei_Krivokrasov
55.0	0.0	0	QUE	Peter_Forsberg
--
Andrew Scott                    | andrew@idacom.hp.com
HP IDACOM Telecom Operation     | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253
During the Roman Era, 28 was considered old...
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Aargh!  Great Hockey Coverage!! (Devils)
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Lines: 16
Locked away, waiting for the tape-delay to start ...
It's nice that the Devils are starting out their playoffs on network
television ... too bad that their playoff game has been preempted on
WABC-AM for an early-season Yankees baseball game!
It's a 12-2 win by the Texas Rangers ... and they're delaying the
tape-delay by another half-hour for the ballgame "highlights"!!!
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: c5ff@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (COOK  Charlie)
Subject: NHL Summary parse results for games played Fri, April 16, 1993
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Lines: 123
Philadelphia                     1 1 2 1--5
Hartford                         1 2 1 0--4
First period
1, Hartford, Nylander 10 (unassisted) 8:51.
2, Philadelphia, Recchi 53 (Lindros, Brind'Amour) pp, 19:59.
Second period
3, Hartford, Burt 6 (Cunneyworth, Kron) 2:00.
4, Philadelphia, Bowen 1 (Eklund, Recchi) 7:09.
5, Hartford, Nylander 11 (Zalapski, Sanderson) 9:38.
Third period
6, Hartford, Kron 14 (Sanderson, Cassels) pp, 1:24.
7, Philadelphia, Beranek 15 (Lomakin, Yushkevich) 3:11.
8, Philadelphia, Faust 2 (Brind'Amour, Roussel) 3:38.
Overtime
9, Philadelphia, Yushkevich 5 (Faust) 1:15.
Philadelphia: 5    Power play: 4-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Beranek            1    0    1
Bowen              1    0    1
Brind'Amour        0    2    2
Eklund             0    1    1
Faust              1    1    2
Lindros            0    1    1
Lomakin            0    1    1
Recchi             1    1    2
Roussel            0    1    1
Yushkevich         1    1    2
Hartford: 4    Power play: 4-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Burt               1    0    1
Cassels            0    1    1
Cunneyworth        0    1    1
Kron               1    1    2
Nylander           2    0    2
Sanderson          0    2    2
Zalapski           0    1    1
-----------------------------------------
New Jersey                       0 3 1--4
NY Islanders                     3 3 2--8
First period
1, NY Islanders, Turgeon 56 (unassisted) 4:11.
2, NY Islanders, Thomas 36 (Malakhov, King) pp, 5:58.
3, NY Islanders, Ferraro 14 (Dalgarno, Malakhov) 18:16.
Second period
4, New Jersey, Niedermayer 11 (Richer, Nicholls) 0:41.
5, NY Islanders, Mullen 18 (Vaske, Dalgarno) 1:15.
6, NY Islanders, Thomas 37 (Hogue, Norton) 2:12.
7, New Jersey, Zelepukin 23 (unassisted) 17:11.
8, New Jersey, Richer 38 (Nicholls, Daneyko) 17:23.
9, NY Islanders, Hogue 33 (Flatley, Ferraro) 18:42.
Third period
10, NY Islanders, Turgeon 57 (unassisted) 3:45.
11, New Jersey, Semak 37 (Lemieux, Driver) 9:06.
12, NY Islanders, Turgeon 58 (King, Pilon) 10:21.
NY Islanders: 8    Power play: 4-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Dalgarno           0    2    2
Ferraro            1    1    2
Flatley            0    1    1
Hogue              1    1    2
King               0    2    2
Malakhov           0    2    2
Mullen             1    0    1
Norton             0    1    1
Pilon              0    1    1
Thomas             2    0    2
Turgeon            3    0    3
Vaske              0    1    1
New Jersey: 4    Power play: 2-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Daneyko            0    1    1
Driver             0    1    1
Lemieux            0    1    1
Nicholls           0    2    2
Niedermayer        1    0    1
Richer             1    1    2
Semak              1    0    1
Zelepukin          1    0    1
-----------------------------------------
NY Rangers                       1 0 1--2
Washington                       1 1 2--4
First period
1, NY Rangers, Graves 36 (Zubov, Andersson) 6:17.
2, Washington, Ridley 26 (unassisted) 18:33.
Second period
3, Washington, Hatcher 34 (Johansson) 12:19.
Third period
4, Washington, Jones 12 (May) 2:49.
5, Washington, Cote 21 (Khristich, Pivonka) pp, 18:55.
6, NY Rangers, Gartner 45 (Amonte, Andersson) pp, 19:50.
Washington: 4    Power play: 7-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Cote               1    0    1
Hatcher            1    0    1
Johansson          0    1    1
Jones              1    0    1
Khristich          0    1    1
May                0    1    1
Pivonka            0    1    1
Ridley             1    0    1
NY Rangers: 2    Power play: 4-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Amonte             0    1    1
Andersson          0    2    2
Gartner            1    0    1
Graves             1    0    1
Zubov              0    1    1
-----------------------------------------
From: stamber@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Kevin L. Stamber)
Subject: Re: How difficult is it to get Penguin tickets?
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Lines: 27
In article <1993Apr18.201811.28965@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, dmoney@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dean R Money) writes:
> The subject line says it all.  Is it terribly difficult to get tickets
> to Penguins games, especially now that they are in the playoffs?  Would
> it be easy to find scalpers outside of the Igloo selling tickets?
>
> Dean Money
> dmoney@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Here is my traditional experience with tickets, playoffs and otherwise,
at the Civic Arena.
Scalping is illegal but nonetheless present outside the Arena.  Best
strategy, given that you don't mind missing the Anthem (which is OK if B.E.
Taylor decides to come back ever again :) ) is to wait until 7:40 or 7:45,
when the game is rolling; the scalpers are at this point desperate to sell
and will reduce to near or at face value to get rid of their tickets.
Playoffs are a little different in that good seats will go early on;
what's left at 7:45 may be nosebleed material (D, E sections).
Others can add on their opinions as well.
Kevin L. Stamber
Purdue University
PENGUINS 6 DEVILS 3 -- Pens lead series 1 game to none
Organization: Penn State University
From: Robbie Po <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Did The Blues Pull It Out?
Lines: 10
When I left, it was 4-3, Blues with 2:00 to go!  As I predicted in
"@#$%! I was right in the first place!!!"  Blues in 6!  YES!!!
Of course it's only one game -- that could be the 'Hawks stab in the face to
wake them up -- that's what playoffs are about, on any given day... :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
** Robbie Po **          PGH PENGUINS!!!    "We do what comes naturally!
Patrick Division Semi's  '91 STANLEY CUP    You see now, wait for the
PENGUINS 6, Devils 3     '92 CHAMPIONS      possibility, don't you see a
Penguins lead, 1-0       12 STRAIGHT WINS!  strong resemblance..."-DG '89
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Re: Playoff pool entry form
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 45
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
Well, thanks to everyone who has entered so far.  There are at least 40
entries, and hopefully more people will enter before the deadline, which
is 7:30 pm Today, Sunday, April 18, 1993!  In the interest of fairness,
since I will win anyway, I feel it is only right to actually tell everyone
my picks, so that you all won't cry "rigged" after I declare myself the
winner.  Here they are:
Series			Your Pick		Games
Division Semifinals
Pittsburgh-New Jersey		Pittsburgh		5
Washington-NY Islanders	NY Islanders		6
Boston-Buffalo			Boston			5
Quebec-Montreal			Quebec			7
Chicago-St. Louis		Chicago			4
Detroit-Toronto			Detroit			6
Vancouver-Winnipeg		Winnipeg		7
Calgary-Los Angeles		Calgary			7
Division Finals
Patrick				Pittsburgh		6
Adams				Quebec			7
Norris				Chicago			7
Smythe				Calgary
Conference Finals
Wales				Pittsburgh		5
Campbell			Chicago			4
Stanley Cup winner		Pittsburgh		6
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
From: andrew@idacom.hp.com (Andrew Scott)
Subject: USENET Playoff Pool (IMPORTANT)
Organization: IDACOM, A division of Hewlett-Packard
Lines: 15
I got back from my trip to discover that my email spool file got blown
away.  I am missing all the playoff pool entries sent between April 5
and April 17.  It looks like about 200 entries got lost.  *Sigh*.
Therefore, I would like to ask each person that sent me a team to resend
it ASAP.  I am relying on your honesty to not make changes after the
deadline today.
Thanks in advance, and I apologize for the problem.
--
Andrew Scott                    | andrew@idacom.hp.com
HP IDACOM Telecom Operation     | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253
During the Roman Era, 28 was considered old...
From: gp2011@andy.bgsu.edu (George Pavlic)
Subject: Re: Aargh!  Great Hockey Coverage!! (Devils)
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Lines: 22
In article <1993Apr18.203823.28597@news.columbia.edu>,
gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) wrote:
>
>
> Locked away, waiting for the tape-delay to start ...
>
> It's nice that the Devils are starting out their playoffs on network
> television ... too bad that their playoff game has been preempted on
> WABC-AM for an early-season Yankees baseball game!
>
> It's a 12-2 win by the Texas Rangers ... and they're delaying the
> tape-delay by another half-hour for the ballgame "highlights"!!!
>
You think that's bad?  I'm in Bowling Green, OH, and we get ABC from
Toledo.  Well, the cable co. decided to totally pre-empt the game (no tape
delay, no nothing) for a stupid telethon!  Hockey is very big around here,
too.  I had to listen to "my" Penguins win on my car radio out in the
parking lot.  I can just be thankful for a strong radio because being 230
miles from Pittsburgh, the reception usually isn't good at all.  I can't
believe I picked it up during the middle of the day.
George
From: wangr@vccsouth22.its.rpi.edu ( Rex Wang )
Subject:  Tie Breaker....(Isles and Devils)
Nntp-Posting-Host: vccsouth22.its.rpi.edu
Reply-To: wangr@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Lines: 9
Are people here stupid or what??? It is a tie breaker, of cause they
have to have the same record. How can people be sooooo stuppid to put win as
first in the list for tie breaker??? If it is a tie breaker, how can there be
different record???? Man, I thought people in this net are good with hockey.
I might not be great in Math, but tell me how can two teams ahve the same points
with different record??? Man...retard!!!!!! Can't believe people actually put
win as first in a tie breaker......
From: jca2@cec1.wustl.edu (Joseph Charles Achkar)
Subject: Blues steal game 1 from Hawks
Keywords: Blues, Hull, Shanahan, Joseph, Blackhawks, Belfour
Nntp-Posting-Host: cec1
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Lines: 125
The Blues scored two power-play goals in 17 seconds in the third period
and the beat the Chicago Blackhawks 4-3 Sunday afternoon at Chicago Stadium.
Brendan Shanahan tied the game 3-3 and Brett Hull scored the game winner 17
seconds later. Jeff Brown and Denny Felsner scored the other Blues goals.
Brian Noonan had the hat trick for the Hawks, who also had some very good
goaltending from Ed Belfour. Blues goalie Curtis Joseph was solid down the
stretch to preserve the Blues lead.
The Hawks came out strong in the first period, outshooting the Blues 6-1 and
taking a 1-0 lead on Noonan's first goal. Right after an interference penalty
on Rick Zombo had expired, Keith Brown intercepted a clearing attempt at the
blue line and passed the puck to Steve Larmer in the right circle. Larmer fired
a long slap shot, and Noonan deflected the puck between Joseph's pads. After
the goal, the Blues picked up the intensity and went on to outshoot the Hawks
10-9 in the first period.
Jeff Brown tied the game 1-1 at 3:12 of the second. Nelson Emerson broke in on
the left side, got by Craig Muni and pushed the puck across the slot. Belfour
came out to play the pass and shoveled it to the right boards, where Brown
collected it and slapped it in before Belfour could get back to the goal.
Two minutes later on a Hawks power play, Belfour stopped Rich Sutter on a
short-handed break-in. Chris Chelios picked up the puck and passed it to Jeremy
Roenick who carried it on right wing and found an open Noonan with a nice pass
across the slot. Noonan fired it past Joseph at 5:30 for the 2-1 lead.
Noonan completed his hat trick 3:11 later to increase the Hawks' lead to 3-1.
Stephane Matteau made a nice pass from the right boards to Noonan who beat
Stephane Quintal by driving to the net. Joseph had no chance as Noonan
deflected the puck in the net.
Denny Felsner reduced the Blues deficit to 3-1 at 12:49 after picking up the
rebound of Basil McRae's slap shot from the slot. Janney set up McRae for
the shot, and the puck sailed wide of the net and bounced off the end boards
to Felsner. Felsner sticked the rebound into the partially open net. The Blues
outshot the Hawks 10-5 in the second period.
With the Blackhawks leading 3-2 at 9:56 of the third, Stephane Matteau picked
up a high sticking penalty. Just 53 seconds into the power play, Steve Smith
was called for slashing, giving the Blues a 5-on-3 advantage for 1:07.
The Blues didn't waste time as Brendan Shanahan scored just 23 seconds into
the two-man advantage to tie the game 3-3. Janney found Hull in the slot,
and Hull fired a rocket at Belfour. Jeff Brown collected the rebound and
passed it to Shanahan in the left circle. Shanahan beat Belfour from a sharp
angle.
Just 17 seconds later, Hull scored the game winner for the Blues. Nelson
Emerson broke in on right wing, carried the puck behind the net along with
two Hawks defensemen. Emerson made a nice pass to an unchecked Hull in the
slot, and Hull beat Belfour to put the Blues up 4-3.
The Hawks had several chances to tie the game in the final minutes, but Joseph
made some brilliant saves to prevent the Hawks from scoring. He stopped Troy
Murray point blank from just right of the crease with 2:30 left in the game.
The Blues killed off a late Hawks power play, with Rich Sutter clearing the
puck with his hand as it was trickling along the goal line. The Blues held
on to win the game. The Hawks oushot the Blues 13-7 in the third period,
totaling 27 shots on goal for each team. The Blues special teams were excellent
in the game. The Blues killed 6 of 7 Hawks power plays, and scored twice on
on four power play chances. The Blues ranked among the best special teams in
the league. They rank 2nd in penalty killing and 3rd on the power play.
The game was carried live on ABC, the first time an NHL game other than an
All-Star game has been shown on network television since May 24, 1980, when
CBS carried Game 6 of the Stanley Cup finals.
The best-of-seven series continues Wednesday in Chicago and Friday and Sunday
in St. Louis.
Box score
---------
Blues 4, Blackhawks 3
BLUES       0    2    2   --   4
CHICAGO     1    2    0   --   3
FIRST PERIOD
CHI -- Noonan 1 (Larmer, K.Brown), 8:17.
Penalties -- Shanahan, StL (holding), 2:28; Zombo, StL (interference), 6:00;
Murphy, Chi (high-sticking), 11:30; Grimson, Chi (boarding), 14:39; Zombo, StL
(holding), 18:46.
SECOND PERIOD
STL -- Brown 1 (Shanahan, Emerson), 3:12.
CHI -- (PPG) Noonan 2 (Roenick, Chelios), 5:40.
CHI -- Noonan 3 (Matteau, Sutter), 8:51.
STL -- Felsner 1 (McRae, Janney), 12:49.
Penalties -- Baron, StL (interference), 4:33; Wilson, StL (tripping), 9:31.
THIRD PERIOD
STL -- (PPG) Shanahan 1 (J.Brown, Hull), 11:12.
STL -- (PPG) Hull 1 (Emerson, J.Brown), 11:29.
Penalties -- Shanahan, StL (roughing), 1:54; Matteau, Chi (high-sticking),
9:56; Smith, Chi (slashing), 10:49; Baron, StL (roughing), 14:23.
SHOTS ON GOAL
BLUES       10    10     7   --   27
CHICAGO      9     5    13   --   27
Power-play Opportunities -- St. Louis 2 of 4; Chicago 1 of 7.
Goaltenders -- St. Louis, Joseph, 1-0-0 (27 shots-24 saves).
Chicago, Belfour, 0-1-0 (27-23).
Referee -- Kerry Fraser. Linesmen -- Kevin Collins, Brian Murphy. A -- 16,199.
%*%*%*%**%*%%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*
*   __  ______________         ____________________________________    %
%   \ \_)____________/         A L L E Z   L E S   B L U E S  ! ! !    *
*    \    __________/          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    %
%     \    ________/                                                   *
*      \   _______/                  Joe Ashkar                        %
%       \  \                         Contact for the Blues             *
*        \  \  SAINT LOUIS           jca2@cec1.wustl.edu               %
%        (___)             BLUES                                       *
*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Tie Breaker....(Isles and Devils)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Lines: 18
In <lrw509f@rpi.edu> wangr@vccsouth22.its.rpi.edu ( Rex Wang ) writes:
>I might not be great in Math, but tell me how can two teams ahve the same points
>with different record??? Man...retard!!!!!! Can't believe people actually put
>win as first in a tie breaker......
Well I don't see any smileys here.  I am trying to figure out if the poster
is a dog or a wordprocessor.  Couldn't be neither.  Both are smarter than
this.
"I might not be great in Math"
--
cordially, as always,                      maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
"So many morons...
rm                                                   ...and so little time."
Organization: Penn State University
From: Robbie Po <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Aargh! Great Hockey Coverage!! (Devils)
<1993Apr18.203823.28597@news.columbia.edu>
Lines: 31
In article <1993Apr18.203823.28597@news.columbia.edu>,
gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) says:
>Locked away, waiting for the tape-delay to start ...
I think this guy is going to be just a little bit disappointed.  Lemieux
two, Tocchet, Mullen, Tippett, and Jagr.  I buzzed my friend because I forgot
who had scored Mullen's goal.  I said, "Who scored?  Lemieux two, Tocchet,
Tippett, Jagr."  The funny part was I said the "Jagr" part non-chalantly as
he was in the process of scoring while I was asking this question!!! :-)
All in all ABC's coverage wasn't bad.  On a scale of 1-10, I give it about
an 8.  How were the games in the Chi/St. Louis/LA area???
>It's nice that the Devils are starting out their playoffs on network
>television ... too bad that their playoff game has been preempted on
>WABC-AM for an early-season Yankees baseball game!
That's stupid!!!  I'd complain to the television network!  If I were to even
see a Pirates game on instead of a Penguins game at this time of the year, I
and many other Pittsburghers would surely raise hell!!!
>It's a 12-2 win by the Texas Rangers ... and they're delaying the
>tape-delay by another half-hour for the ballgame "highlights"!!!
Texas is off to a good start, they may pull it out this year.  Whoops!  That
belongs in rec.sport.baseball!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
** Robbie Po **          PGH PENGUINS!!!    "We do what comes naturally!
Patrick Division Semi's  '91 STANLEY CUP    You see now, wait for the
PENGUINS 6, Devils 3     '92 CHAMPIONS      possibility, don't you see a
Penguins lead, 1-0       12 STRAIGHT WINS!  strong resemblance..."-DG '89
Organization: Penn State University
From: Robbie Po <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: @#$%! I was right in the first place!!!
Lines: 53
In article <vzhivov.735059801@cunews>, vzhivov@superior.carleton.ca (Vladimir
Zhivov) says:
>
>In <93107.091503RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu> Robbie Po <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>
>>2-Red Wings vs. 3-Maple Leafs               Maple Leafs in 6
>
>>  Comment : It's kind of tough to rely on Yzerman as the team's main weapon.
>>            He's a great palyer, but Dino knows all about choking, which
>>            puts the burden on Steve even more.  Potvin's had a hell of a
>>            season and goaltending is what you need in the playoffs.
>
>For a great prognosticator:), you seem to remember very little playoff
>history. Dino always shows up in the playoffs, which is why he is a
>great "sleeper" pick in pools. Don't forget about Fedorov, one of the
>top players in the NHL, IMHO, and Coffey who has the most Stanley Cup
>rings of any active players (correct me if I'm wrong). Wings in a
>cakewalk.
Oh yeah, how come Dino could never take the Caps out of the Patrick
Division?  He choked up 3 games to 1 last year and got swept away in
the second round two years ago.  He rarely, if ever, makes it out of the
division.
>>1-Canucks vs. 4-Jets                        Canucks in 5
>
>>  Comment : It's more like Vancouver vs. Selanne.  King and Domi (for
>>            enforcing) help Winnipeg out a little, maybe a game.  Canucks
>>            have their number.
>
>Except that the Canuck are playing like shit. Winnipeg can win this
>one, though I think Vancouver will manage to slip by.
So are the Islanders, but they can still pull it out.  Vancouver has Winnipeg's
number, so it really doesn't matter.
>>2-Flames vs. 3-Kings                        Flames in 7
>
>>  Comment : 7 games looks good as the Kings always seem to battle it out.
>>            Flames are back in running and won't know memories of last year's
>>            season.  Gretzky is on a tear, but there are too many ?????
>>            surrounding the Kings.
>Kings "always seem to battle it out"? When? Where?
Kings always seem to go at least 6 or 7, they never play a four or five
game serious.  There's a difference between battling it out and pulling it
out, as I take Calgary to pull it out in 7.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
** Robbie Po **          PGH PENGUINS!!!    "We do what comes naturally!
Patrick Division Semi's  '91 STANLEY CUP    You see now, wait for the
PENGUINS 6, Devils 3     '92 CHAMPIONS      possibility, don't you see a
Penguins lead, 1-0       12 STRAIGHT WINS!  strong resemblance..."-DG '89
From: ddlin@athena.mit.edu (David D Lin)
Subject: Daigle/Kariya
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 2
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: e51-007-12.mit.edu
I hear Daigle will eb the first pick next year. What is the word on Kariya???
Anybody ever seen him play on TV???? Is he also entering the draft???
From: doyle@cs.umass.edu (Jim Doyle)
Subject: UMass Big East hockey underway
Organization: CS Dept., Umass-Amherst
Lines: 39
NNTP-Posting-Host: gaia.cs.umass.edu
Summary: UMass hires Head Coach for first season since 1979
Keywords: UMass Minutemen Mallen
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]
The mission to revive hockey at UMass is now underway. At the  4 PM Saturday
afternoon press conference held at the new Mullins Center Arena - former
Boston College Asst. Coach Joe Mallen was awarded the 4 year, $85,000/year
contract as Head Coach for the UMass Minutemen.
Mallen was the third viable pick for the position, right behind Jeff Jackson
(Lake Superior) and second behind Shawn Walsh (UMaine). Previous offers for
the position were rumored to have been offered to the asst. coaches of
Brown, RPI and the head coach of the AHL Springfield Indians.
UMass hockey was disbanded in 1979 due to financial constraints that had
undermined the team's position over a period of years. In late November
of last year, the $52 million Mullins Sports Center was opened following
its one year construction deadline.
The Minutemen are slated to play an independent Div II/Div III schedule this
upcoming winter before officially entering Hockey East for the Winter 1994
season. Mallen has yet to comment on player recruitment strategies or
potential team candidates for the Minutemen - it is expected that he will
leverage off his inside contacts within New England, the Bay State and
Europe to draw on competitive, top ice players for the University.
UMass has slated 18 hockey scholarships for the upcoming Fall semester ;
expect to hear more from me as I hear more from my sources.
.... J.D.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Jim Doyle 	Univ. of Massachusetts - Dept. of Computer Science
Staff Programmer	PUMA/DCC/CNET	 email:	doyle@gaia.cs.umass.edu
office:		Lederle GRC Room A203	 Tel.  413-545-3179
home  :		91 Blackberry Ln         Tel.  413-549-1409
Amherst,MA 01002-1516
From: gomer+@pitt.edu (Richard J Coyle)
Subject: Re: How difficult is it to get Penguin tickets?
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Lines: 14
In article <1993Apr18.201811.28965@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dmoney@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dean R Money) writes:
>The subject line says it all.  Is it terribly difficult to get tickets
>to Penguins games, especially now that they are in the playoffs?  Would
>it be easy to find scalpers outside of the Igloo selling tickets?
There are ALWAYS scalpers with tickets outside the Arena.  You might have
to pay a few bucks extra, but you can always find them.  Look on the
street under the message board, or out on the street in front of the Hyatt,
or even around Gate 1.  The later you buy them, the less money you'll pay,
and during the regular season you could usually find some for near face
value or below if you wait until game time.  Might be better to pick them
up earlier now, though.
rick
From: umfu0009@ccu.umanitoba.ca (J. M. K. Fu)
Subject: Re: Tie Breaker....(Isles and Devils)
Nntp-Posting-Host: data.cc.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 21
In <lrw509f@rpi.edu> wangr@vccsouth22.its.rpi.edu ( Rex Wang ) writes:
>	Are people here stupid or what??? It is a tie breaker, of cause they
>have to have the same record. How can people be sooooo stuppid to put win as
>first in the list for tie breaker??? If it is a tie breaker, how can there be
>different record???? Man, I thought people in this net are good with hockey.
>I might not be great in Math, but tell me how can two teams ahve the same points
>with different record??? Man...retard!!!!!! Can't believe people actually put
>win as first in a tie breaker......
Why not? I believe both the Devils and Islanders got 87 points.
Say for example, another team had this record : 20-37-47;
they had 20*2+47*1+37*0=87 which is the same as their points total.
(The Islanders' and Devils' records are both 40-37-7.
It is simple arithmetics and involve no Calculus.
John.
(a computer science graduate who pretends to be a mathematican)
From: rjtapp@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Riston Tapp)
Subject: Re: Bruins vs Canadiens:
Organization: University of Waterloo
Lines: 24
In article <1993Apr16.213513.7683@rose.com> jack.petrilli@rose.com (jack petrilli) writes:
>On April 14,  richard@amc.com (Richard Wernick) wrote:
>
>or Boston? You know Sinden's going to find some way of screwing up
>even this good Boston team. He'll fire Suter or trade away a vital
>star. (Admittedly, his last few trades have been good ones but how
>long before his luck runs out and he starts making Esposito-for-
>Ratelle type trades again?)
>
How was this trade bad? I seem to recall Ratelle and Middleton making a pretty
good centre - right wing combination, and the Bruins also got Brad Park in the
deal (and they also lost Vadnais and somebody else). After the trade, the
Bruins were in two finals and one semi-final, all of which, of course, they
lost to Montreal (which should please you to no end). I doubt, however, keeping
Esposito would have made a difference in those series, as he did not for
the Rangers in '79 (or any of his years in Boston, for that matter).
Riston
--
Riston
------
_  ___  _
//^/o o\^\\
Organization: Central Michigan University
From: Martin D. Hill <32GFKKH@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: NHL team in Milwaukee
Lines: 24
Well put, Jason.  I am not from Wisconsin, but I have close relatives who
live in Port Washington (about 30 minutes north of Milwaukee), I visit the
city regularly, and I have been in the Bradley four times to see the Admirals
play  and the NCAA Hockey Championships.  It is a beautiful building.  The
Pettits and the city like to promote it as the best facility for hockey in
North America.
As to what will happen with the Admirals if Milwaukee does acquire a
franchise, word is the team will move to Green Bay and play in the Brown
County Arena.
Once again, the Admirals are an independent franchise, and the people of
Milwaukee have been supporting them well.  The games I have been to have seen
crowds anywhere from 10,000 to 13,000, which are numbers some NHL teams (i.e.
the Islanders, Hartford, New Jersey) would be envious of having on some nights.
Plus the fact that the city is able to support a minor league franchise without
the glamour of having an NHL club affiliated to it is testimony to the amount
of hockey interest exists in the city.
Sincerely,
Martin Hill, Rt. 2, Box 155B, Sault Ste. Marie, MI (Home of LSSU:  Go Lakers!)
P.S.  Anybody know what the attendance figures are for the IHL and how
Milwaukee stacks up against other IHL cities such as Atlanta, Phoenix, San
Diego, Cleveland, and Cincinnati?  If so, please reply.
From: epritcha@s.psych.uiuc.edu ( Evan Pritchard)
Subject: Re: div. and conf. names
Distribution: na
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology
Lines: 59
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>In <115873@bu.edu> Jason Gibson writes:
>>I can live with the other changes that have been made (e.g. the playoff format
>>change), but the change to the division and conference names really annoys me.
>>"Batman" was on TSN last night saying that changing the names would make the
>>game easier for the "occasional fan to follow".  He should have said what he
>>meant: that changing the names will make the game easier for _Americans_ in
>>non-hockey cities to follow.  I don't know of too many of my friends who had
>>a hard time following which teams were in each division. Even a minimal amount
>>of exposure to the game allows a person to quickly pick up on this.
>There is nothing wrong with making the game easier for "_Americans_" to
>follow.  The more fans the merrier and even if you dislike the "occasional"
>fan there is always the chance that these fans will become fanatics.
>I am glad that the names are being changed for another reason.  The names
>Patrick, Smythe, Norris, Adams and Campbell are all the names of so-called
>"builders" of the game.  This is the same type of thinking that put Stein
>in the Hall of Fame.  This is absolute nonsense.  The real builders of the
>game are Richard, Morenz, Howe, Conacher, Orr, etc.  If you are going to
>name the divisions after people at least name the divisions after people
>who deserve it.
I think that you are incorrect, Roger.  Patrick,
Smythe and Adams all played or coached in the league before becoming
front office types.  Hence, they did help build the league, although
they were not great players themselves.
I agree that a name is a name is a name, and if some people
have trouble with names that are not easily processed by the fans,
then changing them to names that are more easily processed seems like
a reasonable idea.  If we can get people in the (arena) door by being
uncomplicated, then let's do so.  Once we have them, they will realize
what a great game hockey is, and we can then teach them something
abotu the history of the game.
>The history of the names can be put rather succinctly.  All of the aforemen-
>tioned used the game of hockey to make money.  Can you imagine a Pocklington
>division?  A Ballard division?  Or how about a Green division?
No, I would not want to see a Ballard division.  But to say
that these owners are assholes, hence all NHL management people are
assholes would be fallacious.  Conn Smythe, for example, was a classy
individual (from what I have heard).
Also, isn't the point of "professional" hockey to make money
for all those involved, which would include the players.  What I think
you might be saying is that the players have not made as much money as
should have been their due, and it is the players that are what make
the game great not the people who put them on the ice, so naming
division after management people rather than players is adding insult
(in the form of lesser recognition) to injury (less money than was
deserved).
_______________________
Evan Pritchard --------  Number 1 or 9 depending on the hockey pool
=======================
epritcha@psych.uiuc.edu
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Aargh! Great Hockey Coverage!! (Devils)
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Lines: 21
Robbie Po <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) says:
>>Locked away, waiting for the tape-delay to start ...
>
>I think this guy is going to be just a little bit disappointed.
Why?  I'm calling this Penguins ... in 6.  Only that with the way
things stand, the only radio game at that hour is from the Devils
on WABC, 770 AM.  It'd be nice to have a Sony Watchman, but ...
No need to be paranoid, Robbie.  Don't judge me by my geographic
coordinates ...
Jets over Nordiques in the final ... 7.
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: div. and conf. names
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Distribution: na
Lines: 63
In <C5pDGI.LJL@news.cso.uiuc.edu> epritcha@s.psych.uiuc.edu ( Evan Pritchard) writes:
>	I think that you are incorrect, Roger.  Patrick,
>Smythe and Adams all played or coached in the league before becoming
>front office types.  Hence, they did help build the league, although
>they were not great players themselves.
Punch Imlach's contributions as a coach and GM were far greater than
those of the above combined.  Should we name a division or trophy after
him?  Smythe and Norris and the bunch were honoured purely because they
were powerful owners.  As owners they certainly did help to build the
league but whether they developed the game is another question altogether.
Are we going to honour those who contributed to the league's evolution
or are we going to honour those who contributed to the glory of the
sport itself?
>	I agree that a name is a name is a name, and if some people
>have trouble with names that are not easily processed by the fans,
>then changing them to names that are more easily processed seems like
>a reasonable idea.  If we can get people in the (arena) door by being
>uncomplicated, then let's do so.  Once we have them, they will realize
>what a great game hockey is, and we can then teach them something
>abotu the history of the game.
I can't disagree with you here.
>>The history of the names can be put rather succinctly.  All of the aforemen-
>>tioned used the game of hockey to make money.  Can you imagine a Pocklington
>>division?  A Ballard division?  Or how about a Green division?
>	No, I would not want to see a Ballard division.  But to say
>that these owners are assholes, hence all NHL management people are
>assholes would be fallacious.  Conn Smythe, for example, was a classy
>individual (from what I have heard).
What have you heard?  The Major was the *definitive* little asshole!  He
originated the phrase "if you can't beat 'em in the alley you can't beat
'em on the ice."  That was his idea of hockey.  Do you think, by chance,
that Don Cherry is a classy individual?
>	Also, isn't the point of "professional" hockey to make money
>for all those involved, which would include the players.  What I think
>you might be saying is that the players have not made as much money as
>should have been their due, and it is the players that are what make
>the game great not the people who put them on the ice, so naming
>division after management people rather than players is adding insult
>(in the form of lesser recognition) to injury (less money than was
>deserved).
The money issue is irrelevant to the point that we would agree on, and
that is: "it is the players that are what make the game great and not the
people who put them on the ice"
Exactly true.  Naming divisions and trophies after Smythe and the bunch
is the same kind of nepotism that put Stein in the hall of fame.  I have
always thought that this was nonsense.
--
cordially, as always,                      maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
"So many morons...
rm                                                   ...and so little time."
From: roney@selkirk.sfu.ca (Chris J. Roney)
Subject: Re: div. and conf. names
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: na
Lines: 33
epritcha@s.psych.uiuc.edu ( Evan Pritchard) writes:
>	No, I would not want to see a Ballard division.  But to say
>that these owners are assholes, hence all NHL management people are
>assholes would be fallacious.  Conn Smythe, for example, was a classy
>individual (from what I have heard).
Depends on what you mean by classy. From what I've heard about
him, he was about as classy as Harold Ballard.  Only difference was
that back then almost all the owners were like that, so he seemed okay
by comparison.  Read the book "Net Worth" for one view of what Smythe
(and Norris and Adams and Campbell) were like.
>	Also, isn't the point of "professional" hockey to make money
>for all those involved, which would include the players.  What I think
>you might be saying is that the players have not made as much money as
>should have been their due, and it is the players that are what make
>the game great not the people who put them on the ice, so naming
>division after management people rather than players is adding insult
>(in the form of lesser recognition) to injury (less money than was
>deserved).
Even more specifically, I think what Roger was saying (and I said
it previously too) is that these are NOT the people who made the
league great, so why should divisions, conferences etc. be named after
them instead of Morenz, Vezina, Howe, Orr etc., the people who DID
make it great.  Instead, the NHL has chosen to immortalize the men who
got rich off of the men who made the game great.
--
Chris Roney  (e-mail chris_roney@sfu.ca)
From: jca2@cec1.wustl.edu (Joseph Charles Achkar)
Subject: Re: Numerical Nothingness
Nntp-Posting-Host: cec1
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Lines: 38
In article <1993Apr18.140401.18439@freenet.carleton.ca> ad684@Freenet.carleton.ca (Bob Wilson) writes:
>
>Mario averaged 2.66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666
>points per game ... the Antigretz
Gretzky averaged 2.69 pts/game
>Mario projected over 80 games.
>213 points (beats Wayne's record by 1)
Check your information before posting, Gretzky's record is 215 pts in 80 games.
>Over 84 games 97 g + 127 a = 224 points.
>
Over 84 games, Gretzky's total projected 226 points.
>Pitt's winning percentage with Mario (45-10-5) over 84 games
>-> 133 points.   Would this have been a record?
>I know Mtl had 132 one year.
The 76-77 Canadiens had .825 percentage, 132 pts in 80 games. (60-8-12).
The 29-30 Bruins had a .875 winning percentage.
Also the 77-78 Canadiens had a .806 percentage with a 59-10-11 record.
>Bob Wilson
>ad684@freenet.carleton.ca
%*%*%*%**%*%%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*
*   __  ______________         ____________________________________    %
%   \ \_)____________/         A L L E Z   L E S   B L U E S  ! ! !    *
*    \    __________/          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    %
%     \    ________/                                                   *
*      \   _______/                  Joe Ashkar                        %
%       \  \                         Contact for the Blues             *
*        \  \  SAINT LOUIS           jca2@cec1.wustl.edu               %
%        (___)             BLUES                                       *
*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%
From: mmilitzo@scott.skidmore.edu (matthew militzok)
Subject: NHL Playoff Stats & Scores
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Lines: 2
For updated playoff updates (scores, stats, summaries)
e-mail me. (mmilitzo@skidmore.edu) with the subject STATS.
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Rangers name Keenan coach
Keywords: hockey, men's professional
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Lines: 65
clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI) writes in clari.sports.hockey:
>	NEW YORK (UPI) -- Mike Keenan, whose NHL coaching history
>has been to wear out his welcome despite an impressive penchant for
>winning, has come to the city that embraces victors above all else.
Well, I could become a fan ... (-;
Seriously, this news coming since Thursday has effectively robbed the
Islanders and the Devils of any airtime on sports talk shows almost
everywhere that I've sampled ... in fact, the playoffs almost don't
exist now. )-; Ranger fans calling in to WFAN or to New York One's
midnight sports talk were in a mix of fury over this season and near-
orgasm over Keenan's hiring.  (Summarizing: Keenan is a winner and
will give the Broadway Bums 'da business' in pursuing the next Cup
chase ...)
>	The Chicago Blackhawks cut their last tie with Keenan when
>he was forced out as general manager in November. He had given up
>Chicago's coaching duties a year ago and his thirst for the power
>of a GM now increases the pressure on beleaguered Rangers GM Neil
>Smith.
This will be an interesting combination to watch ... Keenan has been
paid enough money to put up and shut up and just be a coach, but his
advice on any player moves will be listened to closely.  A lot of big
player moves will happen --- remember that Keenan got rid of Denis
Savard.  The country club days are over ...
>	``When Keenan left Chicago I couldn't help but think about
>him as our coach,'' Smith said. ``There was an indication he would
>be taken off the market. I feared that and couldn't let that happen.''
If Paramount had given Smith an earlier sign of support and offered
Keenan the big money to put-up-and-shut-up back in January, the
Rangers might not be heading for golf now ...
>	Keenan, 43, takes on a demoralized team that offers him a
>chance to fashion yet another of his reclamation projects -- at the
>highest salary ever commanded by an NHL coach. The Rangers -- owned
>by Gulf & Western -- have bestowed upon Keenan an unprecedented $3
>million, four-year deal,
>	``I've known Mike a long time,'' Messier said. ``We've won two
>Canada Cups together. He's been to the finals three times. Maybe we
>miss just one more element to win the Stanley Cup. I don't think he's
>the same person he was 10 years ago or even five years ago. I think he
>has changed and bettered himself with experience.''
One of Keenan's first statements was a reaffirmation that Mark Messier
will be the team's captain.
>	The timing of the move gives the Rangers' new coach 2 1-2
>months to prepare for the NHL draft (June 26), and Neil Smith may
>not back off the their trade-happy pattern.
By then, Smith might have some bargains on Keenan's advice ... like
maybe unloading Phil Bourque for Tie Domi ... (-;
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: boora@kits.sfu.ca (The GodFather)
Subject: LA ON ABC IN CANADA
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 16
Was the ABC coverage of the Kings/Flames game supposed to be the
way it was shown in BC with CBC overriding the ABC coverage?  When I flipped
to ABC, it was the same commentators, same commercials even.  My question
is:  Was this the real ABC coverage or did CBC just "black out" the
ABC coverage for its own?
comment:
CBC had a great chance for some double headers:  Toronto/Detroit
and Vancouver/Winnipeg, but today they said that the East gets the Leafs
and the West get the Vancouver game.  I thought that they would show them
both.
The GodfAther
Organization: Central Michigan University
From: Martin D. Hill <32GFKKH@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:    college hockey all-star game
Lines: 3
Does anybody know the details of the Shriners All-Star game that featured the
best seniors in college hockey in a game in Orono, Maine?  If you do, please
reply.
From: rrmadiso@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (*** CHUCK ***)
Subject: CORRECTIONS --- Re: Playoff predictions
Organization: University of Waterloo
Lines: 29
Everyone... Read this.  If you have already sent your predictions, please
correct the Patrick division if you would like.  You have until midnight
on monday (my time.)
You may need to correct these games...
3 - Pittsburgh vs. New Jersey
4 - New York Islanders vs. Washington
10 - Patrick Division Winner
13 - Wales Conference Winner
15 - Stanley Cup Winner
Please forward all corrections to
Richard Madison
rrmadiso@napier.uwaterloo.ca
>1st rd:	Pens over Isles in 4.
>	Devils over Caps in 6.
>2nd:	Pens over Devils in 7.
From: andy.bgsu.edu (Ryan )
Subject: What are you smoking? (wasRe: My Predictions of a classic playoff year!)
Organization: BGSU
Lines: 59
> 	Norris Division
>
>
> TOR vs DET    TOR in 7   (THis , like MON vs QUE, will be another intense
> 			 (series to watch!)
>
> CHI vs TOR    TOR in 7   (Potvin will be settling in nicely by this point.)
>
>
> Vancouver vs Toronto		Toronto in 6  (Potvin will be series MVP)
>
*This is what kills me:
> 	STANLEY CUP FINALS
>
> Toronto Maple Leafs    vs    Montreal Canadiens
> 	(The Classic Stanley Cup Final matchup!!) <---also a dream come true!
>
> 	Montreal wins the Stanley cup in the 7th game 1 - 0 in double overtime.
> Roy and Potvin are spectacular throughout the series and share series MVP (if
> that is possible) Vincent Damphouse nets game winner from a brilliant pass by
> Brian Bellows! Canadiens star(?) Denis Savard watched his buddies play from the
> owners box nursing that splinter on his thumb which has left him on the
> disabled list since the first game of the playoffs (awww shucks).
> 							Paul
> 						Die hard Habs Fan living with
> 						3 Die hard Leafs fans!
*******************************************************************************
Speaking of "die hard", that's what I did when I read this, died hard
laughing!
Toronto, to the Cup finals???
First of all, has anyone on the planet heard of the team from Detroit?  Al
Morgani (or however you spell the idiot's name) must be from Chicago,
because on ESPN, he said "it's not even close--Chicago will definatly win
the Norris Division in the Playoffs, no other team is close."  Everyone is
picking Chicago!  I don't get it, he says it's an "easy choice"?
God, Chicago was 1-4-1 against the Wings, and they won the division by a
point or two, followed closely by Toronto, who is also a good team!
As for the Leafs beating Detroit--doubt it, but even if they do, they
aren't going to get by Chicago.  If (even more amazingly) they get past the
Hawks, they would probably face Vancouver, and lose.
As for The Habs reaching the Finals, forget it.  Even I, as a devoted Wings
fan, will watch the Penguins easily three-peat as Cup winners.  Lemieux,
Jagr, Tocchet, Stevens, and Barrasso, its a done deal.  Sorry Detroit, wait
til next year.
But hey, these were Paul's picks, and everyone has a right to their own
opinnions, but the Leafs to the Finals??? Yeah. If they make it there, I'll
walk to Toronto to get some tickets, and that's a 700 mile walk!
--Ryan--
Detroit Red Wings--the forgotten team!  Go Wings!!  Let's hope the Penguins
go out
early!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: colling@ann-arbor.applicon.slb.com (Michael Collingridge)
Subject: NHL Team Captains
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)
Summary: How Are Team Captains Selected?
Lines: 12
In the mist of the Rangers soap box (i.e. Captain neMesis-ier/ex-coach
Roger Nebula bad blood bath) and with high hopes turned to new coach
Mr. Klean (Commissar Keenan)... I would like to know what procedures
hockey teams use to select their captains (including A's). Are they
selected by the coaching staff, do the players vote for a captain, or
are they appointed by management?
And, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been traded,
resigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any other
team captain trivia would be appreciated.
-- Mike
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: NHL Team Captains
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Lines: 36
In <1993Apr19.022113.12134@ann-arbor.applicon.slb.com> colling@ann-arbor.applicon.slb.com (Michael Collingridge) writes:
>And, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been traded,
>resigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any other
The Leafs have always been kind of comical.  During the second  Imlach
era, when Darryl Sittler was called a "cancer on the team", he tore the
C off his sweater and for a while the Leafs didn't have a Captain.
Sittler eventually ended up in Philly and he was promised  the  Philly
captaincy  by  new  GM  (and Sittler's friend) Bobby Clarke.  Instead,
Sittler got traded to Detroit.
Rick Vaive was the Leaf Captain for awhile but he slept in one day and
they took the captaincy away from him.  Then he was traded to Chicago.
During Doug Carpenter's tenure as Leaf coach, in an  attempt  to  kiss
the  ass of a sulking Gary Leeman, the Leafs took the A away from Brad
Marsh to give to Leeman.  Leeman wouldn't take it and when they  tried
to give it back to Marsh, he wouldn't take it neither.
The best story I remember about a captain concerned Mel Bridgman, late
of the Senators.  While he was in Philadelphia, Bobby Clarke, arguably
one of the great captains of all time, was bumped up to the status  of
playing coach and so he had to relinquish the captaincy.  Bridgman be-
came the new captain.  A reporter asked a Flyer what Bridgman did as a
captain  since  Clarke  was  still  the  undisputed leader amongst the
players.  The reporter was told that Bridgman was in charge of  making
sure that the soap dispensers in the showers were always full.
--
cordially, as always,                      maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
"So many morons...
rm                                                   ...and so little time."
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Re: Tie Breaker....(Isles and Devils)
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 35
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
In article <lrw509f@rpi.edu> wangr@rpi.edu writes:
>
>	Are people here stupid or what??? It is a tie breaker, of cause they
>have to have the same record. How can people be sooooo stuppid to put win as
>first in the list for tie breaker??? If it is a tie breaker, how can there be
>different record???? Man, I thought people in this net are good with hockey.
>I might not be great in Math, but tell me how can two teams ahve the same points
>with different record??? Man...retard!!!!!! Can't believe people actually put
>win as first in a tie breaker......
Golly, I love stupid people. :-)
Listen, Rex, this is hockey.  The NHL, to be precise.  And in the NHL,
there exist these things called "ties".  A tie occurs when a game ends
with the score for each team equal.  Each team gets one point for a tie.
There also exits these things called "wins".  A win is when one team has a
higher score than the opponent.  (Oh yeah, only two teams play each other
at a time, so I can say "the opponent".)  A team gets two points for a
win.  So, let's say that a team has a record of 38 wins, 36 losses, and 10
ties.  Another team has a record of 40 wins, 38 losses and 6 ties.  The
first team has (38*2)+10 = 86 points.  The second team has (40*2)+6 = 86
points.  WOW!  They *both* have the same number of points, but the number
of wins is different!  How did they do that??!?!?!?!  That's amazing.  So,
Rex, when people talk about wins being the first tiebreaker, well, then
that's what it means.  In our example, the second team would win the
tiebreaker and therefore have the "better" record, even though both teams
had the same number of points.  If you didn't understand this post, Rex,
maybe you should go back and read it again, very slowly.
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
From: Mamatha Devineni Ratnam <mr47+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Atlanta Hockey Hell!!
Organization: Post Office, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 23
NNTP-Posting-Host: po4.andrew.cmu.edu
Well, it's not that bad. But I am still pretty pissed of at the
local ABC coverage. They cut off the first half hour of coverage by playing
David Brinkley at 12:30 instead of an earlier time slot. I don't
even understand their problem. If they didnt think enough people would
not watch the game why would they decide to show most of the game? And
if they showed the remaining 2.5 hours of the game, would it hurt to play
David Brinkley at its regular time? They dont have any decent programming
before noon anyway. I called the sports dept and blasted them on their
machine. I called gain and someone picked it up. When I asked him why they
premepted the first half hour of the Stanley Cup playoffs, he seemed a bit
confused. When I explained a bit more in detail, he then said that's upto
to our programming dept. call back on  Monday. weel, I understand that the
sports dept is not responsible for this preemption. BUt I can't understand
how someone in the sports dept. can't even recognise the name of playoffs
shown on the very same station he works for.
Anyway, I am going to call them tomorrow and blast them on the phone again.
I urge all Atlanta hockey fans to call WSB 2 and ask them not to do the
same thing for the next 4 weeks.
-Pravin Ratnam(Oh by the way, Pens rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
From: sclark@epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Clark)
Subject: OOOPS!
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS
Nntp-Posting-Host: epas.utoronto.ca
Lines: 18
Picture if you will, the Habs going into the last couple minutes of the
game, leading 2-0.  The Nords get a power play, pull Hextall, and get
a goal.  Bout a minute later, they get another one.  Then they win in
overtime......
A bad dream?.......
How's that Red Hot Chili Peppers song go...
"Give it away,give it away, give it away now...."
Oh well.  Suppose I can always watch the Leafs win tomorrow night....
(smilies.....)
Am I the only female hockey fan in the world?
Susan Carroll-Clark
sclark@epas.utoronto.ca
From: JBE5 <JBE5@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: Nords 3 - Habs 2 in O.T. We was robbed!!
Lines: 50
Nntp-Posting-Host: vm1.mcgill.ca
Organization: McGill University
Aargh!
Paul Stewart is the worst and most biased ref. presently in the NHL.
He called a total of 4 penalties on the Habs and one on the Nordiques.
The Nords' penalty came in O.T.  Stewart, being an ex-Nordique himself,
was looking to call penalties on the Habs while letting the Nords
get away with murder...WE WAS ROBBED!!!!
It was an excellent game with plenty of end-to-end rushes and tremendous
goalkeeping.  The Nords tied it with over 1 minute to go while Lebeau
was serving a penalty.  I don't mind Stewart calling a penalty in the
last 5 min. of the game, but AT LEAST BE FAIR ABOUT IT.  The Nords were
caught with their hand in the cookie jar more than once.  Stewart turned
the other cheek...BASTARD!
Patrick Roy collapsed after letting in the tieing goal. He was shaky and
on his knees for the rest of the night.  The winning goal shouldn't have
gone in.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming the loss on Stewart.  The Habs had
plenty of chances to capitalize, Muller, LeClair, Haller, etc. but
failed to put the puck in the net.  That's what did them in.  But
Mr. Stewart didn't help matters at all.
Oh well, at least the Bruins lost in O.T. also Ha, Ha!!--)
,,,
(0-0)
============================oOO(_)OOo===================================
The Czar of Mainframe Computing <JBE5@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA>
McGill University
--> I'M TOO SEXY FOR COBOL.
---> Habs...will beat the Nords in 7!!!!
---> Let's Go Expos!
===========================================
| Hickory, dickory doc,                   |
| She took a good look at your cock.      |
| It's really scary all rinkled and hairy,|
| It smells like a 10 year old sock!      |
|           --Andrew Dice Clay            |
===========================================
DISCLAIMER:
************************************************************************
*   Needless to say that the opinions expressed by THE CZAR represent  *
*   those of the faculty, staff, and students of McGill University.    *
************************************************************************
From: colling@ann-arbor.applicon.slb.com (Michael Collingridge)
Subject: Re: Truly a sad day for hockey
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)
Summary: Norm Greene Happenings
Lines: 20
In article 27089, alvstad@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Mad Dog) reports:
>A fine 26 year history came to a close tonight, as the Minnesota North Stars,
>or Norm's Stars (whichever you prefer) lost to the Red Wings by a score of
>5-3.  The Stars goals were scored by Mike McPhee and Ulf Dahlen, who netted
>two including the final one in franchise history, with less than a minute to
>play.
Are there any further stories to report on the eve' of Norm's farewell
from the twin cities? In an earlier post, it was announced that Norm
Green was given until midnight of the last home-game of the North Stars
to cleanup his belongings and turn in the keys to the arena.
Did this happen? Was Norm run-out-of-town?
Rumor has it that while he was attempting to remove the score board,
the score-board fell to the ice and flattened Mr. Greedy to a large
piece of green paper. Arena management had to use the Zamboni (which
they confiscated from Norm's truck) to clean-up the useless remains.
-- Mike
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Atlanta Hockey Hell!!
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Lines: 24
Mamatha Devineni Ratnam <mr47+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>I can't understand how someone in the sports dept. can't even recognise
>the name of playoffs shown on the very same station he works for.
You think that's bad ... one year, we had all three New York teams in
the playoffs and the cableco operator (SCNY once shared a channel with
BET but someone forgot to throw the switch at 6PM) didn't know what I
was talking about ...
While it's nice that the NHL is back on American network TV, it faces
the same problems as it did with the All Star game.  Local preemptions
and zero promotion (okay, I don't watch that much TV so I'm just foaming
all right?).  The league should have made sure that it was solid on cable
before going to the networks.  In year one of the new ESPN contract, the
saturation coverage of SCA (all other games shown to completion, like
the Quebec-Montreal and Sabres-Bruins overtimes) is missed around here.
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: vzhivov@superior.carleton.ca (Vladimir Zhivov)
Subject: Flames Truly Brutal in Loss
Organization: Carleton University
Lines: 28
As the subject suggests the Flames were not impressive this afternoon,
dropping a 6-3 decision to the LA Kings. Most of the Flames neglected
to show up, especially in their own zone, as the Kings hit at least
five posts! The Flames best line was probably
Skrudland-Paslawski-Berube (which tells how bad the Flames were). Gary
Suter scored a great goal (in fact all three Flame goals were scored
by D-men - Yawney and Dahlquist getting the others), but also made
some bonehead plays. For the Kings, Pat Conacher was especially
impressive.
The games was VERY chippy, as Dan Mirouelli lost control early and
never recovered it; there were high-sticks, cross-checks, punches,
hits from behind. Fleury got a game misconduct for rubbing out Warren
Rychel from behind. Flames dominated the game physically, but failed
to take advantage due to horrendous defensive lapses (I don't think
Vernon can be blamed for any of the goals). Calgary went with 7 D-men,
as Roger Johansson played LW; he looked lost IMHO - I hope King
inserts Chris Lindbergh, Paul Kruse, or Sergei Makarov for Wednesday's
game. Gretzky left the game in the 2nd period with a charley-horse; no
idea how serious - he didn't return.
I still think the Flames should win this series, but they better
buckle down.
- Vlad the Impaler
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Playoff pool update
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 44
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
Well, I have compiled some statistics on the entries of my pool.  There
are unofficially 52 entrants.  Here are the stats on what teams were
picked to win it all:
Pittsburgh:	34 (1 sweep, 14 in 5, 15 in 6, 4 in 7)
Boston:		6  (1 in 5, 5 in 6)
Detroit:	4  (3 in 6, 1 in 7)
Montreal:	2  (1 in 5, 1 in 7)
Toronto:	2  (1 in 6, 1 in 7)
(no, this wasn't Roger)
Calgary:	1  (in 6)
Quebec:		1  (in 6)
Vancouver:	1  (in 7)
Washington:	1  (in 6)
Why the hell hasn't anybody picked Chicago???  NOBODY!  Quebec got a pick,
Detroit got 4, but absolutely no Chicago!  How odd.
Here are the "losers":
Detroit:	20
Chicago:	16	(so there they are!)
Pittsburgh:	6
Vancouver:	4
Boston:		2
Calgary:	2
Los Angeles:	1	what?!?
Toronto:	1
LOS ANGELES???????  Are you out of your mind?!?!?  Good luck to you,
you'll need it!
So Pittsburgh is the consensus winner of the Stanley Cup.  They'll
statistically beat Detroit in 6 games.  HAHA  that's happening!  NOT!  As
I said, every one of my picks will come true, and I picked Chicago to lose
to Pittsburgh in the finals, so tough luck to all you who picket Detroit.
Well, tough luck to all of ya!  I am a genius!!!  ;-)
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"A cow is not a vegetarian dish."  -- Keith Keller, 1993
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Flames Truly Brutal in Loss
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Distribution: na
Lines: 13
This game would have been great as part of a double-header on ABC or
ESPN; the league would have been able to push back-to-back wins by
Le Magnifique and The Great One.  Unfortunately, the only network
that would have done that was SCA, seen in few areas and hard to
justify as a pay channel. )-;
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Possible Canadian WC Team?
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 22
In article <1993Apr18.194657.26319@news.columbia.edu> gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>
>>CENTERS
>>Mark Messier, N. Y. Rangers
>
>Messier was not invited due to his nagging injuries.  While the press
>made an issue of it, and attempted to link it to the Rangers' internal
>political woes, Mike Keenan repeated that to Messier personally during
>the MSG press conference.  It makes sense ... Messier would probably
>have not declined the invitation if it were made for publicity ...
>
Actually, Messier was invited, but declined due to nagging injuries...
Keenan and Messier have always gotten along...Keenan dumped Steve
Yzerman from the last Canada Cup team, even though Yzerman had
endured the training camp, when Messier who had missed essentially the
entire camp recovering from injuries became available at the
last moment.
Gerald
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Daigle/Kariya
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 15
In article <1qsmhtINNt5l@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> ddlin@athena.mit.edu (David D Lin) writes:
>I hear Daigle will eb the first pick next year. What is the word on Kariya???
>Anybody ever seen him play on TV???? Is he also entering the draft???
People are seeming to be less concerned about Kariya's size as he leads
teams to championships (World Junior and US College) and collects
awards...everyone is watching with interest as to how he will perform
on left wing with Eric Lindros and Mark Recchi at the world
championships.
4 months of go...chances were not very good that he would go in the
top five...now it has become probable...a great world championship
could put him in the top 3 with Daigle and Pronger.
Gerald
Organization: University of Notre Dame - Office of Univ. Computing
From: <JOLD@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Subject: Re: Octopus in Detroit?
<1993Apr18.100640.1@nickel.laurentian.ca>
Lines: 9
In Detroit, the octopus is a symbol from the old days of the league. In
the era of the Original 6, four teams made the playoffs.  To win the Cup,
a team had to win two seven-game series - in other words it took 8
playoff wins to win the Cup.  The octopus (8 legs) has become a common
Detroit symbol.  Every year around playoff time people start sneaking
octopus (octopi?) into the Joe Louis Arena and throwing them onto the ice.
J. Old
e-mail: JOLD@vma.cc.nd.edu
From: allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan)
Subject: Don Cherry - Coach's Corner summary - April 18, 1993
Nntp-Posting-Host: st-lina.cs.ualberta.ca
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Lines: 68
Here is a summary of Don Cherry's coach's corner from April 18, 1993.
It took place in the first intermission of game 1 of the Montreal-Quebec
series.
Pre-game comments
-----------------
Don's pregame comments were mostly aimed at the goalies... The goalie
who gets back his all-star form (Roy or Hextall) can win the series
for his team.
Eposode Summary
---------------
This episode took place rinkside. Don was holding a hot dog that
he bought from the concession stand.
Ron Maclean started out by showing a cartoon which appeared in the
Toronto Sun. It featured a picture of Don, who just saw his shadow
and proclaimed "Will you look at dat, eh? Means another 6 weeks
of me. Beauty."
Next, Don talked about the hot dog he was holding. According to
him, the hot dogs at the Quebec stadium are the best food in all
the arenas in the NHL.
From there, Don commented on the Quebec-Montreal game. The game
had great flow, because Referee Paul Stewart calls the best game
in the NHL. In contrast, the Calgary-LA game was terrible... All
stop-and-go, over 50 minutes of penalties called against Calgary
by Dan Marouelli. Its getting so that the ref who calls the most
penalties gets to ref in the finals.
Next, Ron showed an old picture of Don, when he was playing for
the Rochester Americans of the AHL. Don recalled some of the
wins that he had in the Quebec arena... during the Memorial cup
and the AHL championships.
Finally, Don and Ron discussed Keenan becoming coach of the
Rangers. The rangers were a talented team who underachieved.
Don feels sorry for temporary coach Ron Smith, who had
several key injuries (to Leetch and Patrick) and goalies who
went cold.
Don had some criticism for the Rangers team... The party's over,
Adolf (Keenan) is there. The Rangers organization will no longer
be a 'country club'.... "NY should be achamed of themselves... If
they go in the tank with Adolf there, they'll be hanging from the
yardarm by their thumbs."
Rating
------
Nothing too special in this episode.
I'll give it a 5.5 out of 10.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\  \                   |Allan Sullivan (allan@cs.ualberta.ca)
\  \                  |Department of Computing Science,
\  \_______          |University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
\    ###  \     _   |---------------------------------------------------
\___###___\   (_)  |My opinions are mine and mine alone.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It is amazing how much can be accomplished if no one cares who gets the
credit..."          - U. of A. Golden Bears Hockey Motto (C. Drake)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Flames Truly Brutal in Loss
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 11
In article <vzhivov.735193129@cunews> vzhivov@superior.carleton.ca (Vladimir Zhivov) writes:
>As the subject suggests the Flames were not impressive this afternoon,
>dropping a 6-3 decision to the LA Kings. Most of the Flames neglected
>to show up, especially in their own zone, as the Kings hit at least
>five posts! The Flames best line was probably
Mike Vernon is now 3 wins 11 losses plus that All-Star game debacle in
afternoon games during his career...with another afternoon game with
Los Angeles next Sunday...has the ABC deal doomed the Flames?
Gerald
From: Karim Edvard Ahmed <ka0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Goodbye, good riddance, get lost 'Stars
Organization: Senior, Economics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 15
NNTP-Posting-Host: po2.andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <DT642B1w165w@sms.business.uwo.ca>
>        Goodbye Minnesota,...you never earned the right to have an NHL
>franchise in the first place!
>        Hope you enjoy your Twin city wide mania for HIGH SCHOOL HOCKEY
>(hey, by the way my old pee wee team is having a reunion in Regina, care
>to come up and film the event?)
>        Yee haa Golden Gophers
>Whatta weird town!!!!!
What's with you stupid dorks from the "Western Business School"???!!!
First there was that Cary asshole, and now you.  Don't you have anything
better to do instead of being obnoxious, antagonistic little shits over
the network???  Why don't you just take a hike, and stop embarrasing
yourself, your school, and Canada!
-KEA
Organization: Central Michigan University
From: Ryan J. Thieme <33CWDTR@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: How to beat Pittsburgh!
<AfnKOVK00UhB01RDtJ@andrew.cmu.edu>
<1993Apr15.214902.3372@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu> <9169@blue.cis.pitt.edu>
Lines: 7
How do you beat the Penguins?
Crash the team plane.
Ryan
From: epp@mala.bc.ca (Lorne Epp)
Subject: Re: LA ON ABC IN CANADA
Organization: Malaspina College
Lines: 27
In article <boora.735182771@sfu.ca>, boora@kits.sfu.ca (The GodFather) writes:
> 	Was the ABC coverage of the Kings/Flames game supposed to be the
> way it was shown in BC with CBC overriding the ABC coverage?  When I flipped
> to ABC, it was the same commentators, same commercials even.  My question
> is:  Was this the real ABC coverage or did CBC just "black out" the
> ABC coverage for its own?
>
>
Here in Nanaimo (on Vancouver Island, for you furriners out there) we
got the ABC coverage on KOMO.  It probably depends on your cable company.
I started off switching between the CBC and ABC broadcasts, but finally
settled on ABC.  I can't stand Don Whitman, and Al Michaels was doing a
decent job.  He followed the play pretty well, knew all the players'
names, and only made a couple of "rookie" mistakes that I noticed.
One thing that surprised me is that they never once attempted to explain
the offside rule.
Am-I-paranoid-or-is-this-really-happening department:
There were no fights in the game, but there were a couple of occasions
where it looked like a fight was about to start.  Both times ABC cut
away to show a closeup of a coach or McNall or something.  Has ABC
decided to adopt the "Spicer policy?"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lorne Epp                                               epp@mala.bc.ca
From: ayim@laplace.uwaterloo.ca (Alfred Yim)
Subject: Re: Blackhawks win!!!
Lines: 15
Organization: University of Waterloo
In article <1993Apr16.140953.5025@vax.cns.muskingum.edu>, jbrown@vax.cns.muskingum.edu writes:
> The Hawks win!!  Jermey Roenick scored his 50 th goal and the Hawks put the
> Leafs in their place, the losers column.  If the Leafs can not even beat the
> Hawks in a match that had little or no meaning I will hate to see them against
> the Wings.
>
> Oh btw I laugh at rm, that jerky!!!
>
> GO HAWKS!!!
>
> JB
But I gotta tell ya,
If the Hawks can't beat the Blues in a game that
IS significant I can't wait to see how the Blues
might do against Toronto ;)
BTW, if you think that the Hawks deserved to win that game
I think you were not watching the same one everyone else
was.
ROAR'IN LEAF FAN
--
******************************************
*  Alfred (Yong-Jeh) Yim                 *
*  4B Mathematics (Actuarial Science)    *
*  University of Waterloo, Canada.       *
*  E-mail: ayim@descartes.waterloo.edu   *
*****************************************************************************
From: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine)
Subject: Re: Wings will win
Nntp-Posting-Host: hudson.uvic.ca
Reply-To: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Lines: 25
In article 735249453@vela.acs.oakland.edu, ragraca@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Randy A. Graca) writes:
>I also think that they will have a hard time with Pittsburgh if they
>face them in the finals (which is what all the Detroit sportswriters
>are predicting).  Although I think Bryan Murray is probably the best GM
>I have ever seen in hockey
How do you figure that??  When Bryan Murray took over the Wings they were
a pretty good team that was contending for the Stanley Cup but looked
unlikely to win it.  Now they are a pretty good team that is contending for
the Stanley Cup but looks unlikely to win it.  A truly great GM would
have been able to make the moves to push the team to the upper echelon
of the NHL and maybe win the Stanley Cup.  A good GM (like Murray) can
maintain the team's success but can't push them to the next level.
In the history of hockey there have been several better GM's than Murray-
way too many to name.  Murray isn't even the best GM in the league today.
He fails in comparison to Sinden, Sather, Savard, Caron, Fletcher and
Quinn in my estimation.
I can't imagine how Bryan Murray can be the best GM anyone has ever seen
in hockey- unless they have seen VERY few GM's.
Gregmeister
From: neath@brazil.psych.purdue.edu (Ian Neath)
Subject: Re: Thumbs up to ESPN
Organization: Purdue University
Lines: 13
jca2@cec1.wustl.edu (Joseph Charles Achkar) writes:
> It was nice to see ESPN show game 1 between the Wings and Leafs since
> the Cubs and Astros got rained out. Instead of showing another baseball
> game, they decided on the Stanley Cup Playoffs. A classy move by ESPN.
Not in Indiana:  they showed a tape-delay of Chicago v Boston, because
WGN had the rainout of the cubs.  So WGN showed reruns of Hitchcock.
No hockey (at least in this part of the state).
Go Aeros!
--
Ian Neath        | There are four kinds of people in this world:
neath@psych.purdue.edu | cretins, fools, morons and lunatics - U. Eco
From: MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF)
Subject: Re: expanding to Europe:Dusseldorf
In-Reply-To: pkortela@snakemail.hut.fi's message of 15 Apr 93 14:47:30 GMT
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24
Lines: 75
In <PKORTELA.93Apr15164732@lk-hp-17.hut.fi> pkortela@snakemail.hut.fi writes:
>
> DEG has many german-born forwards in the team. In fact the majority of players
> are german-born. 1992-93 DEG had 11150 average in 11800 spectator arena.
Interesting! One of our German friends here (Robert?) told me their forwards
were all Canadian-Germans. Perhaps somebody can sort this out for us?
> My Possible-NHL(European league)-site list:
> Switzerland  : Berne, Zurich (Lugano and 1-2 others)
OK, "this ain't North America" and so on, but I still doubt that _any_ city
having a pop. of 500,000 and below could support an NHL team. Of course,
Switzerland probably should be judged as one large city because of small
distances between cities but still.
> Germany      : Dusseldorf, Cologne, Berlin, Munich (Mannheim, Rosenheim)
Dusseldorf? YES, although the arena is an anachronism (an OPEN wall behind one
of the goals - essentially an outdoor arena!). Cologne's arena only seats about
7,000-8,000, Berlin is about 6,000 and no new facility will be built
unless their Olympic bid is successful. Munich does have an arena.
> Sweden       : Stockholm, Gothenburg (Malmo, Gavle)
Malmo is big enough, but they also need a new arena...the current one has
5,000 seats I think.
> Finland      : Helsinki (Turku, Tampere)
If we're talking about the NHL, even Helsinki would struggle to make it work.
Turku (despite an excellent arena) and Tampere are nowhere near big enough for
major league hockey.
> Italy        : Milan
...Rome and the south are out of the question; this could as well be Africa
to hockey fans. Romans were given the chance to host some WC'94 games but
showed no interest whatsoever. All teams in the Italian league come from Milan
and the smaller cities in the north.
> France       : Paris (Chamonix, Ruoen?)
Paris had their own "Volans Francais"(sp) pro team a couple of years ago.
I believe they even made it to the European Club Championship finals
tournament one year, but eventually folded due to lower-than-hoped-for
attendances. The remaining cities seem to be too small to support a minor
sport like hockey.
> Norway       : (Oslo)
> Austria      : (Vienna, Villach)
> Chech        : (Prag)
> Slovakia     : (Bratislava)
> Russia       : (Moscow, St. Petersburg)
The easter cities lack the money and infrastructure to support pro hockey.
> Great Britain: ?
Perhaps . . . Most European teams will have to be like the Tampa Bay Lightning
anyway; playing in a small 10,000 seat arena, backed by Japanese money, run by
enthusiasts (Phil Esposito), heavy
marketing, fans that have difficulty telling what "icing" means... London has
been mentioned, Sheffield and Birmingham also have large arenas and a new
mega-facility (16,000 seats!) might be built in Bristol in a couple of years.
> Netherlands  : ?
No facilities to speak of; their biggest arena (in Eindhoven) seats 2,500
fans for hockey.
>
> Petteri Kortelainen
MARCU$
From: j3david@sms.business.uwo.ca (James David)
Subject: Plus minus stat...
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Nntp-Posting-Host: sms.business.uwo.ca
Lines: 65
Roger Maynard shares his views, with the masses, on Bob Gainey
and life in general:
>In <1993Apr15.160450.27799@sol.UVic.CA> gballent@hudson.UVic.CA
>(Greg  Ballentine) writes:
>>The Selke candidate forwards main purpose on a shift is to
>>prevent goals from being scored- not to score them.  When
>>Lemieux or Gilmour play their number one purpose is to score-
>>defence is secondary- especially considering the line that
>>plays against them is probably a defensive one.  That is why
>>they are not Selke candidates.
>>Gainey is the best defensive forward ever.  I stand by that
>>assessment. He was a very good player who belongs in the hall
>>of fame.  Did you ever watch him play? He never made a
>>technical error.
>I watched him over his entire career.  I have NEVER seen a
>player, and that includes Russell Courtnall and Davie Keon,
>screw up as many breakaways as Bob Gainey.  And I will never
>forget the time Denis Potvin caught Gainey with his head down.
>You have been sold a bill of goods on Bob Gainey.
It was Bryan Trottier, not Denis Potvin.  It was a vicious
'boarding' from behind...Trottier was given a major.
But Roger, what the hell does this have to do with Gainey's skill
as a hockey player?  If Probert smashes Gilmour's head into the
boards next week, will that diminish your assessment of Gilmour's
skills?
>Gainey was a plugger.  And when the press runs out of things to
>say about  the stars on dynasties they start to hype the
>pluggers.  Grant Fuhr, Essa Tikkannen, Butch Goring, Bob
>Nystrom, Bob Gainey, Doug Jarvis, Derek Sanderson, Wayne
>Cashman, Bob Baun, Bob Pulford, Ralph Backstrom, Henri Richard,
>Dick Duff...and so on...
I would take Fuhr and Sanderson off of the latter.
I think Gainey would be honoured to know that you've included him
on this list.  I also think you have a relatively naive view
about what wins a hockey game...pluggers are an integral part of
any team.  The Selke is designed to acknowledge their
contribution...I think that most people understand that it's not
the Nobel Prize...so settle down.
>cordially, as always,
>rm
>--
>Roger Maynard
>maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
congenially, as always,
jd
--
James David
david@student.business.uwo.ca
j3david@sms.business.uwo.ca (James David)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Rangers give NHL another blackeye...
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 10
News reports in Toronto say that the Rangers are insisting that
Kovalev, Zubov, and Andersson play for Binghampton in the Calder
Cup playoffs, rather than return to play for their "home" countries
in the World Championships.
...shame on the Rangers.
Another black eye for the NHL in Europe.
Gerald
From: rrmadiso@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (*** CHUCK ***)
Subject: Re: Playoff predictions
Organization: University of Waterloo
Lines: 32
Here are my predictions (try not to laugh hysterically)
Somebody save this so I can laugh when I win my own pool.
I don't have prizes, but we all love BRAGGING RIGHTS, so winner takes them.
Also.  If somebody has some sort of scoring system let me know.
I was thinking 1 for 1st round victories, 2 for second, 3 for 3rd, 4 for 4th
But we may get alot of ties.  Any ideas?
1. BUFFALO
2. MONTREAL
3. PITTSBURGH
4. WASHINGTON
5. CHICAGO
6. TORONTO
7. WINNIPEG
8. LOS ANGELES
9. MONTREAL
10.PITTSBURGH
11.CHICAGO
12.WINNIPEG
13.MONTREAL
14.CHICAGO
15. MONTREAL
Richard Madison
rrmadiso@napier.uwaterloo.ca
From: farenebt@logic.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy)
Subject: Re: AHL Calder Cup Playoff preview
Organization: Clarkson University
Lines: 37
Nntp-Posting-Host: logic.clarkson.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Daryl Turner (umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca) wrote:
: In article <1993Apr14.193524.25755@news.clarkson.edu> farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy) writes:
: >
: >ATLANTIC DIVISION
: >
: >	ST JOHN'S MAPLE LEAFS VS MONCTON HAWKS
: >	MONCTON HAWKS
: >See CD Islanders. Moncton is a very similar team to CDI. Low scoring,
: >defensive, good goaltending. John Leblanc and Stu Barnes are the only
: >noticable guns on the team. But the defense is top notch and
: >Mike O'Neill is the most underrated goalie in the league.
: >
: Bri, as I have tried to tell you since 2 February, Michael O'Neill
: might be the most underrated goalie in the AHL, but he ISN'T in the
: AHL.  He's on the Winnipeg Jets' injury list, as he has been since
: his first NHL start against the Ottawa Senators.  He's out until
: next year after surgery to repair a shoulder separation.
: Stu Barnes might be an AHL gun for the Hawks, but he's now the third
: line center with the Jets, and has been since mid January or so.
Sorry, my memory is gone. I thought that O'Neill got sent back
down in February but I must have been given incorrect info. I guess
this says it all about Moncton because Barnes is still one of
their top 3 or so scorers even though he's been out since January.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Bri Farenell			farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu   +
+ AHL and ECAC contact for rec.sport.hockey		Go USA Hockey!	   +
+ Adirondack Red Wings, Calder Cup Champs: '81  '86  '89  '92	   +
+ Clarkson Hockey, ECAC Tournament Champs: '66  '91  '93		   +
+ Glens Falls High Hockey, NY Division II State Champs: '90  '91       +
+ AHL fans: join the AHL mailing list: ahl-news-request@andrew.cmu.edu +
+ CONGRATS TO THE BOSTON BRUINS, 1992-93 ADAMS DIVISION CHAMPIONS      +
+ PHOENIX SUNS, 1992-93 PACIFIC DIVISION CHAMPIONS			   +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: dwk@cci632.cci.com (Dave Kehrer)
Subject: Individual Winners (WAS: Re: WHERE ARE THE DOUBTERS NOW? HMM?)
Summary: my picks
Organization: Northern Telecom, Inc. - Network Application Systems
Lines: 45
Well, since you mentioned it...
In article <1993Apr12.142028.6300@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>, migod@turing.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey) writes:
> Lemieux is clearly the MVP
No question here.  Chip in the Masterson as well...
> Selanne wins the Calder
Yep.
> Chelios the Norris,
If you asked me 30 days ago, I'd agree with you.  I now give the nod to
Raymond Bourque; his play took off the same time the B's did.  Chelios
gets a close second...
> dunno who wins the Vezina, but I suspect not Potvin.
Barrasso finally gets his due, in a close one over Eddie the Eagle...
> Coach of the year is tricky:  Burns did the most with the least raw talent,
> King did a good job but the Flames clearly underachieved last year, Brian
> Sutter has done exceptionally well in his first year with a new team, ditto
> Demers, Page has been blessed by the ripening and acquisition of young
> talent, Darryl Sutter is having a good year for a rookie coach, Berry made
> the best of a bad situation, Terry Crisp worked minor miracles, and Bowman
> was Bowman.  I'd pick Burns, but I'm mildly biased.
In *your* case, that bias is acceptable :-)... Mine shows with the Norris pick,
so we're even...
I'm impressed with what all the coaches you mentioned did, but my pick would be
Al Arbour.  Not too many folks thought the Isles would be in the playoffs, let
alone contend for 3rd in their division... Granted that they *did* have a little
help from their cousins on Broadway... :-)
And I like the Islanders about as much as I like mowing my lawn...
> Mike Godfrey
--------
David Kehrer (dwk@sunsrvr2.cci.com)-Northern Telecom NAS-Rochester, New York
"It's nothing for me to eat six or seven pieces of pizza, then go out to
dinner with my wife and not remember I had the pizza." - Jacques Demers
From: desperate fan
Subject: HELP! WC coverage in Europe
Originator: tervo@messi.uku.fi
Organization: University of Kuopio, Finland
Lines: 6
Vielen dank
Desperate Fan
PS. Sweden vs Finland finished 6-6 in Gothenburg 15th Apr.
From: swartzjh@RoseVC.Rose-Hulman.Edu
Subject: ESPN Tonight
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Lines: 7
Reply-To: swartzjh@RoseVC.Rose-Hulman.Edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.rose-hulman.edu
Has anyone heard what game ESPN is showing tonight.  They said they will
show whatever game means the most playoff-wise. I would assume this would
be the Blues-Tampa game or the Minnesota-Red Wings game...  Anyone heard for
sure???
Jeff Swartz
From: fmsalvat@eos.ncsu.edu (FRANK MICHAE SALVATORE)
Subject: Re: Patrick Division Correction!
Originator: fmsalvat@c00525-106ps.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: fmsalvat@eos.ncsu.edu (FRANK MICHAE SALVATORE)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Lines: 22
In article <93105.013653RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu>, Robbie Po <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>
> Well, I was a little off in those predictions!  One, I didn't count on the
> Devils scoring 6 goals tonight in a 6-6 tie, hence, there goes the streak!
>
> Secondly, I didn't count on the Islanders getting just 1 point out of 4
> against the Whalers in two games.  So, no more Isles/Capitals.
>
> New predicitons :
>
> 1-PENGUINS VS 4-ISLANDERS                  Penguins in 6 or 7
>
> 2-CAPITALS VS 3-DEVILS                     Devils in 7
>
Why should we pay your predictions any heed, considering
you couldn't even predict the proper matchups?  Maybe
you should try forecasting the weather instead.
Frank Salvatore
fmsalvat@eos.ncsu.edu
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Plus minus stat...
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Lines: 79
In <4LD32B2w165w@sms.business.uwo.ca> j3david@sms.business.uwo.ca (James David) writes:
>It was Bryan Trottier, not Denis Potvin.  It was a vicious
>'boarding' from behind...Trottier was given a major.
Perhaps it was Trottier.  It happened behind the Habs goal if I recall.
Gainey simply didn't have his head up as he was picking up the puck.
>But Roger, what the hell does this have to do with Gainey's skill
>as a hockey player?  If Probert smashes Gilmour's head into the
>boards next week, will that diminish your assessment of Gilmour's
>skills?
If Gilmour was taken completely by surprise, as Gainey was, then yeah,
I would have to say that Doug wasn't playing "technically" smart
hockey.  In any case, to claim as Greg did, that Gainey *never* made
a technical mistake is absolutely ludicrous.
>>Gainey was a plugger.  And when the press runs out of things to
>>say about  the stars on dynasties they start to hype the
>>pluggers.  Grant Fuhr, Essa Tikkannen, Butch Goring, Bob
>>Nystrom, Bob Gainey, Doug Jarvis, Derek Sanderson, Wayne
>>Cashman, Bob Baun, Bob Pulford, Ralph Backstrom, Henri Richard,
>>Dick Duff...and so on...
>
>I would take Fuhr and Sanderson off of the latter.
Good for you.  You'd only be displaying your ignorance of course, but to
each his own...
>I think Gainey would be honoured to know that you've included him
I think Gainey should feel honoured to know that he is remembered at
all.
>on this list.  I also think you have a relatively naive view
>about what wins a hockey game...pluggers are an integral part of
Certainly pluggers are an integral part of any team.  And that is
simply because there are not enough solid two-way players to go
around.  Who would you rather have as your "checking" centre?  Doug
Gilmour or Doug Jarvis?  For that matter I would take either Gretzky
or Mario as my "checking" centres.  Do you think Gretzky could cover
Bob Gainey?
>any team.  The Selke is designed to acknowledge their
>contribution...I think that most people understand that it's not
>the Nobel Prize...so settle down.
You're wrong again.  The Selke is awarded to the forward that does the
best job defensively and this may or may not be the best plugger.  If
Gilmour does the best defensive job in the league I don't see why he
should be out of the running simply because he also contributes offen-
sively.
Settle down?  If you think that I have likened the Selke to the Nobel
prize then I suggest that you had best "settle down".  And if you are
going to try to put words in my mouth, let me suggest that you "settle
down" before you bother following up on my postings.
>congenially, as always,
>
>jd
>
>--
>James David
>david@student.business.uwo.ca
You might consider developing your own style.  After all, imitation is
the sincerest form of flattery and I am quite sure that flattery is not
your intention.
cordially, as always,
rm
--
Roger Maynard
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: brifre1@ac.dal.ca
Subject: European expansion and our f*cked system
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Lines: 36
Everyone keeps talking about European expansion by 2010 thinking
wishful thoughts, but being totally off the ball.
The league format we use here is incompatible with that in Europe.
(for those that don't know, the best teams from lower divisions get
promoted and the worst get demoted).
Would European fans put up with our "if you've paid, you can play"
attitude??
How long would they support teams that are run on Ranger-based
corporate thinking (I use the term lightly).  (We don't need a good
product because these duffuses in NYC would fill the arena for Ottawa's
record every year......1940!! haha (sorry, had ta say it)).
If hockey (and other pro sports) had a similar system to Europe, maybe
teams like the Rangers would be forced to compete (or get demoted the fourth
division).  We'd have many more teams...centres that aren't as big (like
Halifax or Adirondack....ok, so Halifax isn't a good example) would
eventually get promoted, and every team would be somewhat competetive within
its own division (unlike Ottawa, SJ, Edmonton, etc.). Fans would eventually
get rewarded for their loyalty (or penalized for their neglect), and the
league would be more interesting and dynamic every year because of the influx
of newly promoted teams (and the Halifax Citadels win the Stanley Cup...I can
dream, can't I??)
Look at British (or any European) soccer as an example (they never have fan
problems).
Just someone who thinks our system really sucks
Barfly
(feel free to flame me, my account ends today...hahahaha)
1940!!
From: formeza@panix.com (The Owl)
Subject: Re: Rangers Top Ten
Keywords: Rangers
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Lines: 28
In <120365@netnews.upenn.edu> kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller) writes:
>>
>>7.   Carol Alt, Head Coach In 93-94?
>I wish!  She can be *my* head coach any time!!!!  (Sorry Ali!  Back to
>real hockey.)
Hmmmmmm. I think I'll let everyone make there own comment on this one.
>>THE BAD
>>
>>Alexei Kovalev.
>>What did the Rangers think when they signed him? Did they think he
>>was another Domi?  Just let him play! And not on a 4th line.  Better
>>that he stays in the minors and gets ice-time ALL the time.
>Whose "bad"?  It has been Neilson and Smith's decision to play him there,
>if that's what you mean, then that's bad.  But Kovalev himself is a very
>good player.  You're right, if he weren't stranded on the fourth line
>maybe he'd produce.  Sound familiar?  Darren Turcotte?
Neilson and Smith are bad. Kovalev is magical.
Lets Go Pens!
The Owl
From: igor@pravda.tse.su
Subject: Who will broadcast the WC
Originator: tervo@messi.uku.fi
Organization: Central Red Army, Soviet Union
Lines: 9
Which GERMAN satellite channels will show the World Championship action
from Dusseldorf & Munich?
Someone please tell me (must be able to root for the Red Machine)!
Thank you
***Russians for the world title, Nordiques for the Cup!!!***
From: seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr)
Subject: Re: Flyers [Re: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)...]
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Keywords: NHL, awards
Lines: 80
In article <1993Apr14.165617.3215@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>, jmd@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (joseph.m.dakes) writes:
> In article <1993Apr13.144030.28994@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>, seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr) writes:
>
> >So Roussel was giving up almost another goal a game while facing a proportional
> >number of shots for the number of minutes he played, and while I have't
> >actually checked I believe that he faced a lower quality of opponent.
>
> Make that less than half a goal a game.  The lower quality of opponet
> argument is immaterial as neither Roussel nor Soderstrom had any say in
> the matter.  That was Dineen's decision.
So in other words, if Roussel shuts out the Sharks and Soderstrom shuts out
the Penguins, that's immaterial because it was the coaches decision? Come on,
Joe, think about what you're saying! Who they played is VERY significant.
Why they played them is what's irrelevent. A low GAA against good teams
is better than a low GAA against bad teams in the context of comparing two
goaltenders. A low GAA is better then a higher GAA. A low GAA against good
teams is much, much better than a higher GAA against bad teams in the context
of comparing two goaltenders.
> > The fact of the matter is that, despite last nights shutout, he doesn't
> > have what it takes. Last night was due to an inept Ranger team much more
> > than Roussel's skill. A 3 on 1 and they don't get a shot away? A 2 on none
> > and one guy just passes and stops, the other guy shoots into Roussel's pad?
>
> C'mon, Pete?  So the Rangers were inept.  A shutout is a shutout.  During
> both of Soderstrom's masterpieces against Toronto, Mike Emerich was quoted
> as saying he didn't think the Leafs had much offensive firepower past their
> first line.  Does that make Soderstrom's shutouts less impressive because of
> Toronto's lack of offense?
YES IT DOES! Absolutely. **In the context of comparing two goaltenders**.
Of course, at the end of the season 2 points is 2 points no matter how you
get them. And on the score sheets shutouts are shutouts. But if you're a
coach deciding between two goalies, or a GM looking to make a trade, you
have got to look deeper than the stat sheets. I didn't see the second Toronto
game, but the first one was a defensive masterpiece. There was nothing in
that game to judge Tommy Soderstrom on because he wasn't tested. The same
for Roussel in the Ranger game. Two real scoring chances, one he made a
great play, the other he was saved by a mistake from the other player. If
you were judging Roussel on that game alone, you have very little to go by.
But if you were to look at the 0-0 tie against the Habs, you saw a goalie
stand on his head to get that shutout. THAT was a #1 goalie in action. Roussel
doesn't have a game like that in him.
> Well if you look back to November when Roussel was the #1 goalie (Soderstrom
> was being treated for his heart ailment).  The Flyers finished November at
> 6-3-1 and were 9-10-4 overall.  And there's no way of knowing where the Flyers
> would have finished if Soderstom wasn't wearing the oragne 'n black.  I'm glad
> we don't have to find out anytime soon either because he is one hell of a
> player.  I would take him over Roussel right now, but I still think Dom has
> what it takes to be the #1 guy.  He outperformed Hextall enough during the
> '91-92 season to make Flyers management think that way too.
Don't be so sure of that. FLYERS management never says bad thing about
Roussel, but they don't say too much on the good side either. I've seen
at least two interviews where every time Farwell was asked how happy he was
to have two good goaltenders, it was Tommy this, Tommy that, and oh, yeah,
Dom has played well too.
> By the way, what was the final card on Monday night?  Team picture by any
> chance?
FLYERS in the NHL Hall of Fame. Kinda dull, really. They handed out a
team picture to everybody who walked in from Pizza Hut, but it was the
same picture they sold in the programs in mid-season. Had names like Benning,
Kasper...
> And how did the Flyers choose the fans who received "the shirts off our
> backs?"  Winning Recchi's jersey after breaking the club's single season
> point record would have been nice.  But knowing your luck you would have
> won Roussel's:-)!
Mostly random seat locations, some were given out by having certain
autographs on the team photos. I don't like that method since I've seen
guards help out people get things like Lindros pictures, surely if they
got their hands on an autographed picture they'd hold 'em for their buddies.
pete clark
From: brifre1@ac.dal.ca
Subject: Re: Goalie masks
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Lines: 22
In article <93102@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak) writes:
>
> 	I'm starting an informal poll on goalie masks. I'd like to know
> who's mask you think looks the best. I've always like Curtis Joseph's
> of the Blues the best. Anyway, send your nominations to me, or post your
> vote here on r.s.h. My e-mail adress is: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu
>
> 	Thanks for your time.
I saw a mask once that had drawings of band-aids, presumably for every puck
that goalie stopped with his face/head.  I can't remember who it was or even
if it was NHL (I see quite a few AHL games here).
This is by far the funniest mask I've seen, and for me funny=cool
>
> --
> GO SKINS!    ||"Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite
> GO BRAVES!   ||   an effect on you?" - Mike Patton, Faith No More
> GO HORNETS!  ||
> GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu
Barfly
From: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine)
Subject: Re: Plus minus stat...
Nntp-Posting-Host: hudson.uvic.ca
Reply-To: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Lines: 33
In article 1443@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca, maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>Certainly pluggers are an integral part of any team.  And that is
>simply because there are not enough solid two-way players to go
>around.  Who would you rather have as your "checking" centre?  Doug
>Gilmour or Doug Jarvis?  For that matter I would take either Gretzky
>or Mario as my "checking" centres.  Do you think Gretzky could cover
>Bob Gainey?
Gretzky, Lemieux, Gilmour etc do not play the role of checking centreman.
They play an offensive role as opposed to a defensive one.  If they
were used as defensive centres it would be a waste of their offensive
abilities.
When you compare Gretzky et al to Jarvis, Gainey etc you are comparing
apples and oranges.  It is like me telling you that Felix Potvin isn't
very good because a team would be better if the had Lemieux instead of
him.  Sure Lemieux is a better player, but he is a different type of
player.  For a team to be successful, they need to have all types of
players- this includes defensive forwards.
When compared with other defensive forwards, Bob Gainey is the greatest
defensive forward ever.  He is the player who's talents best suited being
a defensive forward- who completely dominated the game when he played.
Maybe if a more talented player such as Gretzky had decided to waste his
offensive talents and play defensively, he could have been a better
defensive forward, but he wasn't.
Bob Gainey is the best defensive forward that has ever played hockey.
Gregmeister
From: filinuk@staff.dccs.upenn.edu (Geoff Filinuk)
Subject: Get Real.  Caps have no chance
Reply-To: filinuk@staff.dccs.upenn.edu (Geoff Filinuk)
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 7
Nntp-Posting-Host: staff.dccs.upenn.edu
Anyone who really believes that the Caps can beat
the Pens are kidding themselves.  The Pens may not loose
one game in the playoffs.
Geoff Filinuk
Flyers Fan
From: vzhivov@superior.carleton.ca (Vladimir Zhivov)
Subject: Re: Individual Winners (WAS: Re: WHERE ARE THE DOUBTERS NOW? HMM?)
Organization: Carleton University
Lines: 52
In <1993Apr15.170226.11074@cci632.cci.com> dwk@cci632.cci.com (Dave Kehrer) writes:
>Well, since you mentioned it...
>In article <1993Apr12.142028.6300@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>, migod@turing.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey) writes:
>
>> Chelios the Norris,
>If you asked me 30 days ago, I'd agree with you.  I now give the nod to
>Raymond Bourque; his play took off the same time the B's did.  Chelios
>gets a close second...
How about Kevin Hatcher? Scored roughly 35 goals, plays 30 minutes a game.
>> dunno who wins the Vezina, but I suspect not Potvin.
>
>Barrasso finally gets his due, in a close one over Eddie the Eagle...
That's really sad when two second-rate goalies (Barasso and Belfour)
are the main contenders for the Vezina. Call me crazy, but how about
Tommy Soderstrom - five shutouts for a 6th place team that doesn't
really play defense. It's really unfortunate that the better goalies
in the league (McLean, Essensa, Vernon) had unspectacular years. BTW,
if you are going to award the Norris on the basis of the last 30 days,
why not give the Vezina to Moog? He has been the best goalie over the
past month.
>> Coach of the year is tricky:  Burns did the most with the least raw talent,
>> King did a good job but the Flames clearly underachieved last year, Brian
>> Sutter has done exceptionally well in his first year with a new team, ditto
>> Demers, Page has been blessed by the ripening and acquisition of young
>> talent, Darryl Sutter is having a good year for a rookie coach, Berry made
>> the best of a bad situation, Terry Crisp worked minor miracles, and Bowman
>> was Bowman.  I'd pick Burns, but I'm mildly biased.
>In *your* case, that bias is acceptable :-)... Mine shows with the Norris pick,
>so we're even...
>I'm impressed with what all the coaches you mentioned did, but my pick would be
>Al Arbour.  Not too many folks thought the Isles would be in the playoffs, let
>alone contend for 3rd in their division... Granted that they *did* have a little
>help from their cousins on Broadway... :-)
>And I like the Islanders about as much as I like mowing my lawn...
Arbour or King. Burns will probably win, since playoffs aren't taken
into consideration - he's OK in the regular season, but I'm not sure
if he's beaten anyone other than Hartford in the playoffs.
- Vlad the Impaler
From: tva1@gmuvax.gmu.edu
Subject: Re: David Polie's future
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, VA.
Lines: 33
In article <1993Apr14.010305.1737@ncsu.edu>, fmsalvat@eos.ncsu.edu
(FRANK MICHAE SALVATORE) writes:
>
>> Bad news for the Patrick division next year.  Caps GM David Polie is
>> reportedly trying to get a front office job with the NHL.  I can't
>> believe Polie has not been fired despite 10 years of mediocrity.
>>
You know what Frank? It's not David Poile's fault that the Caps
have mired in mediocrity for so long. Blame it on the owner, Abe Polin!
This guy owns both the NBA's Bullets and the NHL's Capitals. How dumb
and selfish could this guy be? He's unwilling to spend the bucks in
order to get a big star to Landover...no wonder both teams STINK!
I've heard that the Capitals had a chance to get Detroit's
Steve Yzerman last summer but they pulled out at the last minute. Why?
Because our good man, Abe, is afraid to spend the cash!
Nevertheless, I'm still faithful and hoping that one day
this devilish dictator will be replaced.
>> Frank Salvatore
>> fmsalvat@eos.ncsu.edu
Tuan A. Van
"Does it matter where you buy your underwear ?!" --> Tom Cruise, RAIN MAN
=========================================================================
|  T. A. Van -- a.k.a. ARCHMAGE   |  Q: What's orange, black, and ugly  |
|   George Mason University       |     and dwells in the basement ?    |
|  Electrical Engineering '93     |  A: da Philadelphia FLYERS!         |
|     TVA1@gmuvax.gmu.edu	   |     			         |
|     TVA1@mason1.gmu.edu	   | 	 ** Let's go CAP-I-TALS! **      |
=========================================================================
From: rvpst2+@pitt.edu (Richard V Polinski)
Subject: Re: Winning Streaks
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Lines: 24
In article <93105.053748RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu> RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu (Robbie Po) writes:
>
>      The Penguins 18 game unbeaten streak carries over to next season.
>Meaning, if they start the season with another 18 game unbeaten streak, they
>will have eclipsed the Flyers record.  Right now, the Penguins are on an 11
>game winning streak, as streaks carry over from one year to another.
Hmmmm, I'm not sure this is true.  According to Mike Lang and good old
Stagie, along with the rest of the TV crews in pittsburgh, they
winning streak could have stopped because it is a regular season mark.
I would think this would also hold with an unbeaten streak for regular
season games.
However, you are right that the playoff streak does carry over from
last year.  And with 1 more win, I believe they tie an Edmonton record
(but don't quote me on that one).
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>** Robbie Po **          PGH PENGUINS!!!    "It won't be easy, but it
>Contact for the '93-'94  '91 STANLEY CUP    will have greater rewards.
>Penn State Lady Lions    '92 CHAMPIONS      Mountains and Valleys are
>rap115@psuvm.psu.edu     11 STRAIGHT WINS!  better than nothing at all!"
From: apland@mala.bc.ca (Ron Apland)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Organization: Malaspina College
Lines: 28
In article <1993Apr15.161737.28377@sol.UVic.CA>, gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine) writes:
>
> In article 1@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi, hahietanen@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi () writes:
>>In article <1993Apr14.174139.6604@sol.UVic.CA>, gballent@vancouver.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine) writes:
>>>
>>>
>>> +/- is a good stat because it is the only stat that I am aware of that
>>> takes into account defensive play.  It isn't a measure of defensive
>>> play- it takes into account offense and defence- all aspects of play.
>>
>>  If we are interested of real all-round players, the power play stats
>>  should be considered, too. Because the power play is also one aspect
>>  of play! There is still something to be done with these player evaluation
>>  tools!!
>
> IMO any good player should score on power plays because of the man
> advantage.  Very good power play scorers tend to become overrated
> because their point totals are inflated by power play points.
> +/- tends to expose these overrated players such as Brett Hull,
> John Cullen and Dave Andreychuck.
>
> Given the opportunity to play power play consistently, any player can
> inflate his totals.
>
> Gregmeister
Except for Vancouver, of course.  Bure has a hard time scoring on that
power play.  He's got 7 shorthanded goals and 13 pp goals I think!
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Playoff pool, rules, entry form
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 39
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
Well, the tentative rules, anyway.  And, of course, since the season is
not entirely over, tentative entry form.  But who cares?  The real hockey
season is starting!!!!!
Here's the deal:  You email (preferably) or post your predictions, AND the
number of games you think each series will go.  Each round will be
weighted, so that the Stanley Cup finals will be very important, but the
early rounds will still be important.  Here is the scoring:
Pick 1st round winner, way off on games:  2 points
Pick 1st round winner, within one game:   3 points
Pick 1st round winner, pick # of games:   5 points
Pick 2nd round winner, way off on games:  3 points
Pick 2nd round winner, within one game:   4 points
Pick 2nd round winner, pick # of games:   6 points
Pick conference champ, way off on games:  5 points
Pick conference champ, within one game:   6 points
Pick conference champ, pick # of games:   9 points
Pick Stanley Cup champ, way off on games: 8 points
Pick Stanley Cup champ, within one game:  10 points
Pick Stanley Cup champ, pick # of games:  14 points
Pick loser in 7, series goes 7:           2 points
Pick loser in 7, series decided in Game 7, OT: 4 points
(these last two are sympathy points, probably won't happen anyway)
Obviously, picking the Stanley Cup champion is important.  I will do some
tests to see if the format is fair, but probably I will be too lazy to
modify it, so the scoring will probably be like this.  As for entry forms,
well, this post is getting too long, so see next post.
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Entry form for playoff pool
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 43
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
Okay, here's the entry sheet.  Keep in mind that not all spots are
decided, so it may change.
Series  			Your Pick		Games
Division Semis
NY Islanders-Pittsburgh
New Jersey-Washington
Buffalo-Boston
Montreal-Quebec
St. Louis-Chicago
Toronto-Detroit
Winnipeg-Vancouver
Los Angeles-Calgary
Division Finals
Patrick
Adams
Norris
Smythe
Conference Finals
Wales
Campbell
Stanley Cup winner
See previous post for scoring.  Good luck!
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
From: slacelle@gandalf.ca (Stephane Lacelle)
Subject: Bridgman is out
Organization: Gandalf Data Ltd.
Lines: 8
The Ottwawa Senators fired Mel Bridgman at 1:00 PM today.
Randy Sexton is gonna replace him.
--
=====================================================================
Stephane Lacelle
S/W engineer                    Insert .sig here
Gandalf Data Ltd
From: nhmas@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Mark Shneyder 432-4219)
Subject: Re: Playoff telecasts in Atlanta
Organization: HMS
Lines: 22
NNTP-Posting-Host: gauss.med.harvard.edu
In article <C5JABD.812@acsu.buffalo.edu> hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Valerie S. Hammerl) writes:
>
>I'd personally prefer Buffalo-Boston, as a birthday gift from ESPN,
>but I don't think the folks at ESPN will accomodate that for me ;-)
>ESPN has this inexplicable affinity for the Patrick division, it
>seems.
>
First,Happy Birthday,Val. Second, ESPN's affinity with Patrick has probably
more to do with the travel/production costs for a once a week NHN(National Hockey
Night) affair.(ESPN-ABC owner,Capital Cities, is a company known for being
quite thrifty with minimal overhead costs. It's quite possible that Jim
Schoenfeld may be working for doughnuts :-).
Gary Thorne and Bill Clement are both NJ-based and the rest of ESPN crew
resides in the suburban CT with a very close proximity to tri-state area.
Plus,it makes sense in terms of solid hockey following in the NorthEast
corridor(PA-NY-NJ-DC/Maryland). Whereas,in the Adams you have only
3-American based teams, out of which 2(Buffalo and Hartford) are not
in Top-20  US TV-markets.
-PPV Mark
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy)
Subject: AHL Season in review (off ice stuff)
Organization: Clarkson University
Lines: 114
Nntp-Posting-Host: craft.clarkson.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Here is a review of some of the off-ice things that have
affected the AHL this year.
ST JOHN'S MAPLE LEAFS PROBLEMS
The St John's Maple Leafs sophomore season has been plagued by
problems. On-ice, the Leafs won the Atlantic Division title but
off ice was less happy. A strike by public workers has forced the
leafs out of the Newfoundland city for much of the last half of
the seaosn (since mid-Jan). They have played "home" games in places
like Montreal, Cornwall and Charlottetown. Their playoff "home"
games will be played in the Metro Center in Halifax, NS. One
demostration got violent. Workers attacked a Leafs' bus and
rocked it and broke windows in the St John's Memorial Stadium.
Despite the problems, Toronto officials insist that the Leafs
will return to St John's once the strike ends.
===================================================
SENATORS SOLD
The New Haven Senators have been sold by Peter Shipman to
the Ottawa Senators NHL organization. They are the only Canadian
NHL team with an American AHL affiliate, and have made it clear
they intend to move the team to somewhere in the Canadian Atlantic
Provinces. This sale and move has yet to be approved by the AHL
head office, but is expected to pass easily at the general meeting
in May. The quote in the story from Jack Butterfield made it
clear the league was more interested in the stability of the
AHL franchise accompanied by NHL ownership, rather than maintaining
the 56-year history of the AHL in New Haven.
The Senators are currently in serious negotiations with Charlottetown
New Brunswick and are expected to move there.
==================================================
DALLAS HELPS HAWKS STAY IN MONCTON
After announcing that they would pull their affiliation out
of Moncton, the Winnipeg Jets changed their mind.
The Jets announced the move when they said that they would be slashing
their minor league roster from 20-something to around a dozen; and they
wanted to share with an existing AHL or IHL franchise.
Enter the Dallas Lone Stars. Dallas agreed to supply the remaining
6 or 8 players to the Moncton franchise. Thus keeping the Hawks
in the New Brunswick city.
The deal is for one year and will be extended to three years if
the season ticket base increases to over 3000. The Hawks only sold
1400 for this year.
============================================================
SAINT JOHN FLAMES OFFICIAL
The Calgary Flames have officially signed a deal with the city of
Saint John, NB. The Saint John Blue Flames will play in the 6200
Exhibition Center. The Flames still have to apply for an expansion
frnachise from the AHL but are expected to have no trouble.
=========================================================
CAPS FOLLOW JACKS TO MAINE
Despite rumors to the contrary, the Capitals will follow the Baltimore
Skipjacks to Maine. The Caps' current farm team, the Baltimore Skipjacks,
announced that they would move to Maine and become the Portland Pirates.
There was much doubt as to if the Caps would follow but they announced
a limited deal with Portland. They would supply a dozen or so players
including 2 goalies. They become the third team to announce a limited
farm team along with Moncton and the Capital District Islanders.
======================================================
AHL GAME OF THE WEEK
In early January, the AHL started a game of the week. The game, produced
by, I believe, Pyman Productions, was televised across the Canadian
Maritimes and northeastern US. The first few weeks saw two games of
the week, one in Canada and another in the US but since then, there
has been only one. Sunday afternoon and night games were covered and
shown on Sportschannel NY and NE in the US and, I believe, Atlantic
Sports Network in Canada (but I'm not sure about that). I am not
sure if playoff games will be covered.
=====================================================
UTICA GONE? SYRACUSE ADDED?
There were heavy rumors that the Utica Devils will not be around next
season. There were rumors that they might be headed to a midwestern
city and that the city of Syracuse is trying to lure them.
=====================================================
WHAT THE AHL MIGHT LOOK LIKE NEXT YEAR
ONE OPTION				ANOTHER OPTION
Northern Division			Southern Division
ADIRONDACK RED WINGS			ADIRONDACK
SPRINGFIELD INDIANS			SPRINGFIELD
PROVIDENCE BRUINS			PROVIDENCE
CD ISLANDERS				CDI
PORTLAND PIRATES			HERSHEY
BINGHAMTON
Southern Division			ROCHESTER
HERSHEY BEARS				HAMILTON
BINGHAMTON RANGERS			UTICA
ROCHESTER AMERICANS
HAMILTON CANUCKS			Atlantic Division
UTICA (?) DEVILS			PORTLAND
ST JOHN'S
Atlantic Division			SAINT JOHN
ST JOHN'S MAPLE LEAFS			MONCTON
MONCTON HAWKS				HALIFAX
HALIFAX CITADELS			FREDERICTON
CAPE BRETON OILERS			CAPE BRETON
FREDERICTON CANADIENS			CHARLOTTETOWN
SAINT JOHN BLUE FLAMES
CHARLOTTETOWN SENATORS (move is unofficial as yet)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Bri Farenell			farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu +
+ AHL and ECAC contact for rec.sport.hockey		Go USA Hockey!	 +
+ Adirondack Red Wings, Calder Cup Champs: '81  '86  '89  '92	 +
+ Clarkson Hockey, ECAC Tournament Champ: '66  '91  '93		 +
+ Glens Falls High School, Division II NY State Champs: '90  '91 	 +
+ Join the AHL mailing list: ahl-news-request@andrew.cmu.edu    	 +
+ CONGRATS TO CLARKSON GOLDEN KNIGHTS HOCKEY: 1993 ECAC CHAMPIONS!!! +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: farenebt@logic.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy)
Subject: AHL News
Organization: Clarkson University
Lines: 43
Nntp-Posting-Host: logic.clarkson.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
DALLAS HELPS HAWKS STAY IN MONCTON
After announcing that they would pull their affiliation out
of Moncton, the Winnipeg Jets changed their mind.
The Jets announced the move when they said that they would be slashing
their minor league roster from 20-something to around a dozen; and they
wanted to share with an existing AHL or IHL franchise.
Enter the Dallas Lone Stars. Dallas agreed to supply the remaining
6 or 8 players to the Moncton franchise. Thus keeping the Hawks
in the New Brunswick city.
The deal is for one year and will be extended to three years if
the season ticket base increases to over 3000. The Hawks only sold
1400 for this year.
SAINT JOHN FLAMES OFFICIAL
The Calgary Flames have officially signed a deal with the city of
Saint John, NB. The Saint John Blue Flames will play in the 6200
Exhibition Center. The Flames still have to apply for an expansion
frnachise from the AHL but are expected to have no trouble.
CAPS FOLLOW JACKS TO MAINE
Despite rumors to the contrary, the Capitals will follow the Baltimore
Skipjacks to Maine. The Caps' current farm team, the Baltimore Skipjacks,
announced that they would move to Maine and become the Portland Pirates.
There was much doubt as to if the Caps would follow but they announced
a limited deal with Portland. They would supply a dozen or so players
including 2 goalies. They become the third team to announce a limited
farm team along with Moncton and the Capital District Islanders.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Bri Farenell			farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu   +
+ AHL and ECAC contact for rec.sport.hockey		Go USA Hockey!	   +
+ Adirondack Red Wings, Calder Cup Champs: '81  '86  '89  '92	   +
+ Clarkson Hockey, ECAC Tournament Champs: '66  '91  '93		   +
+ Glens Falls High Hockey, NY Division II State Champs: '90  '91       +
+ AHL fans: join the AHL mailing list: ahl-news-request@andrew.cmu.edu +
+ CONGRATS TO THE BOSTON BRUINS, 1992-93 ADAMS DIVISION CHAMPIONS      +
+ PHOENIX SUNS, 1992-93 PACIFIC DIVISION CHAMPIONS			   +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: j3david@sms.business.uwo.ca (James David)
Subject: Plus minus stat
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Nntp-Posting-Host: sms.business.uwo.ca
Lines: 144
>Post: 51213 of 51227
>Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
>From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
>Subject: Re: Plus minus stat...
>Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University,
>Sudbury, ON Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 21:41:29 GMT
>In <4LD32B2w165w@sms.business.uwo.ca>
>j3david@sms.business.uwo.ca (James David) writes:
>>It was Bryan Trottier, not Denis Potvin.  It was a vicious
>>'boarding' from behind...Trottier was given a major.
>Perhaps it was Trottier.  It happened behind the Habs goal if
>I recall. Gainey simply didn't have his head up as he was
>picking up the puck.
>But Roger, what the hell does this have to do with Gainey's
>skill as a hockey player?  If Probert smashes Gilmour's head
>into the boards next week, will that diminish your assessment
>of Gilmour's skills?
>If Gilmour was taken completely by surprise, as Gainey was, then
>yeah, I would have to say that Doug wasn't playing
>"technically" smart  hockey.  In any case, to claim as Greg did,
>that Gainey *never* made  a technical mistake is absolutely
>ludicrous.
Later on, in your posting, you make reference to "putting words
into other people's mouths"...I would suggest that your last
paragraph can only be interpreted in one way...namely, that I,
along with Greg, claim that Gainey never made a technical
mistake.  If you actually read what I've written, you will find
that I make no such claim...soooo, if logic serves me well,
you're contradicting yourself.
>>>Gainey was a plugger.  And when the press runs out of things
>>>to say about  the stars on dynasties they start to hype the
>>>pluggers.  Grant Fuhr, Essa Tikkannen, Butch Goring, Bob
>>>Nystrom, Bob Gainey, Doug Jarvis, Derek Sanderson, Wayne
>>>Cashman, Bob Baun, Bob Pulford, Ralph Backstrom, Henri
>>>Richard, Dick Duff...and so on...
>>I would take Fuhr and Sanderson off of the latter.
>Good for you.  You'd only be displaying your ignorance of
>course, but to each his own...
Roger, I'm not sure here, but I think "ignorance" is really a
function of "a lack of knowledge" and not "formulating an
opinion"...but hey, if you need to take a cheap shot, then by all
means go ahead...that's if it makes you feel better.
>>I think Gainey would be honoured to know that you've included
>>him
>I think Gainey should feel honoured to know that he is
>remembered at  all.
My word, such vehemence against poor ol' Bob Gainey.  Why does
he bother you so much...he was an effective player for his style
of play.
>>on this list.  I also think you have a relatively naive view
>>about what wins a hockey game...pluggers are an integral part
>>of
>Certainly pluggers are an integral part of any team.  And that
>is simply because there are not enough solid two-way players to
>go  around.  Who would you rather have as your "checking"
>centre?  Doug Gilmour or Doug Jarvis?  For that matter I would
>take either Gretzky or Mario as my "checking" centres.  Do you
>think Gretzky could cover Bob Gainey?
I'm really sorry Roger, but you have lost me completely here.
Why don't you ask me if I would rather have Jesus Christ,
himself, in nets?
Now, if you were to compare, say for example, Bob Gainey with Guy
Carbonneau, you would have a balanced comparison.
>>any team.  The Selke is designed to acknowledge their
>>contribution...I think that most people understand that it's
>>not the Nobel Prize...so settle down.
>You're wrong again.  The Selke is awarded to the forward that
>does the best job defensively and this may or may not be the
>best plugger.  If  Gilmour does the best defensive job in the
>league I don't see why he  should be out of the running simply
>because he also contributes offen-sively.
I'm wrong AGAIN...hmmm, let's see...where was I wrong in the
first place?  I'm only guessing here, Rog, but I have a feeling
that you've setup a "You're wrong again" macro key on your
machine.
I agree that my use of the word plugger is simplistic...but I
think you know what I'm getting at.  I would also like to point
out that Gilmour's potential as a Selke-winner was never part of
the debate...are you asking me for an opinion?  If so, I think
there are far too many other deserving players to include Gilmour
among the candidates.
>>Settle down?  If you think that I have likened the Selke to the
>>Nobel prize then I suggest that you had best "settle down".
>>And if you are going to try to put words in my mouth, let me
>>suggest that you "settle  down" before you bother following up
>>on my postings.
I would suggest that your comment: "And when the press runs out
of things to say about  the stars on dynasties they start to hype
the pluggers.  Grant Fuhr, Essa Tikkannen, Butch Goring, Bob
Nystrom, Bob Gainey, Doug Jarvis, Derek Sanderson, Wayne Cashman,
Bob Baun, Bob Pulford, Ralph Backstrom, Henri Richard, Dick
Duff...and so on..." demonstrates a blanket disregard for these
individuals as contributors to the game...so yes, settle
down...nobody has claimed that they are hockey gods.
>>congenially, as always,
>>
>>jd
>>
>>--
>>James David
>>david@student.business.uwo.ca
>You might consider developing your own style.  After all,
>imitation is  the sincerest form of flattery and I am quite sure
>that flattery is not  your intention.
C'mon...it has a nice ring to it...and admit it, you had a good
laugh.
congenially, as always,
jd
--
James David
david@student.business.uwo.ca
j3david@sms.business.uwo.ca (James David)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
From: maX <maX@maxim.rinaco.msk.su>
Subject: Only test message
Distribution: world
Organization: Home
Reply-To: maX@maxim.rinaco.msk.su
Keywords: test
Lines: 2
It's only test message.
From: kfrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Kevin D Frank)
Subject: NHL Team Items...
Nntp-Posting-Host: top.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
Lines: 17
I live in the desolate MidWest (as far as hockey is concerned) and our "sports"
stores around here carry VERY LITTLE hockey stuff, except for San Jose, Tampa
Bay, L.A., Pittsburgh, and if you're lucky Chicago.
I would like to know if anyone knows of any m,ail order, phone order stores that
I might be able to get in contact with.  I am dying for some real hockey stuff
(hats, shirts, key chains, etc.) for some other teams (Edmonton, Montreal, etc.)
so if you have any information, PLEASE e-mail me DIRECTLY.  Most appreciated!
Good luck to your teams in the Stanley Cup playoffs!
GO EDMONTON (likely...NOT!!)  Maybe next year...
--
"If you assult someone you get 5 years--In hockey, 5 minutes.
Is this a great sport or what?!"
Kevin D. Frank					kfrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
From: brifre1@ac.dal.ca
Subject: Yet more crazy predictions
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Lines: 36
Well here it goes...my crazy predictions (which never come true, but hey..)
Adams
Bos vs. Buf - Bos in 5 (cakewalk for the hot Bruins)
Que vs. Mon - Que in 6 (best series of the first round)
Patrick
Pit vs. NYI - Pit in 5 (NYI wins fourth game)
Was vs. NJD - NJD in 7 (a grueling upset, possibly OT in game 7)
Norris
Chi vs. StL - Chi in 5 (StL is no match for Keenan's Krew)
Det vs. Tor - Tor in 6 (Clark steps it up in playoffs this year)
Smythe (who cares?)
Van vs. Win - Win in 7 (so I'm caught up in Teemu-mania, sue me!)
Cal vs. LAK - Cal in 5 (LA sucks!!!!!!!!! IMO)
Division finals
Bos vs. Que - Bos in 7 (killer games, watch for Cam to shine)
Pit vs. NJD - Pit in 6 (NJD go insane, kill all on ice, but Pit wins)
Chi vs. Tor - Tor in 7 (Tor defense finally get it together)
Cal vs. Win - Cal in 6 (Win too tired after 1st series)
Conference finals
Pit vs. Bos - Bos in 6 (Pit too beat up by NJD to play (I hope))
Cal vs. Tor - Tor in 6 (Vernon turns into a sieve)
Stanley Cup
Bos vs. Tor - Tor in 7 (Two totally different teams, who knows? Dreams
can come true, pig might one day evolve wings)
Feel free to laugh at my predictions, I always do!
Barfly
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Plus minus stat
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Lines: 130
In <VFq32B2w165w@sms.business.uwo.ca> j3david@sms.business.uwo.ca (James David) writes:
>>If Gilmour was taken completely by surprise, as Gainey was, then
>>yeah, I would have to say that Doug wasn't playing
>>"technically" smart  hockey.  In any case, to claim as Greg did,
>>that Gainey *never* made  a technical mistake is absolutely
>>ludicrous.
>
>Later on, in your posting, you make reference to "putting words
>into other people's mouths"...I would suggest that your last
>paragraph can only be interpreted in one way...namely, that I,
>along with Greg, claim that Gainey never made a technical
>mistake.  If you actually read what I've written, you will find
>that I make no such claim...soooo, if logic serves me well,
>you're contradicting yourself.
Nonsense.  I quite clearly state that it was Greg that made the claim
that Gainey never made an error.  And he made the claim. Read below.
From rec.sport.hockey Thu Apr 15 21:22:49 1993
From: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine)
Message-ID: <1993Apr15.160450.27799@sol.UVic.CA>
[nonsense deleted]
Gainey is the best defensive forward ever.  I stand by that assessment.
He was a very good player who belongs in the hall of fame.  Did you
ever watch him play? He never made a technical error.
[more nonsense deleted]
>>Good for you.  You'd only be displaying your ignorance of
>>course, but to each his own...
>
>Roger, I'm not sure here, but I think "ignorance" is really a
>function of "a lack of knowledge" and not "formulating an
>opinion"...but hey, if you need to take a cheap shot, then by all
>means go ahead...that's if it makes you feel better.
To knowledgeable observers of the game my meaning is obvious.  Your
hockey education is not my responsibility.
>My word, such vehemence against poor ol' Bob Gainey.  Why does
>he bother you so much...he was an effective player for his style
>of play.
He was just another player.  To laud him as anything more I find
bothersome.  I hated the Habs.  I hated Lafleur until I realized
that he was likely the most aesthetically pleasing player to ever
skate in my lifetime.  Why would anyone talk about Gainey?
>>go  around.  Who would you rather have as your "checking"
>>centre?  Doug Gilmour or Doug Jarvis?  For that matter I would
>>take either Gretzky or Mario as my "checking" centres.  Do you
>>think Gretzky could cover Bob Gainey?
>I'm really sorry Roger, but you have lost me completely here.
>Why don't you ask me if I would rather have Jesus Christ,
>himself, in nets?
Did he play hockey at a high level?  Was he any good?  If not, why
would you bother to bring JC up?  I am talking about hockey players
here.  If you can't follow the conversation don't follow up.  As I
said previously, it is not my responsibility to educate you.
>Now, if you were to compare, say for example, Bob Gainey with Guy
>Carbonneau, you would have a balanced comparison.
Sure.  Two journeymen.  Big deal.  Neither one of them is worth
discussing.
>I'm wrong AGAIN...hmmm, let's see...where was I wrong in the
>>>I would take Fuhr and Sanderson off of the latter.
>first place?  I'm only guessing here, Rog, but I have a feeling
>that you've setup a "You're wrong again" macro key on your
>machine.
That is an excellent idea and if I decide to waste any more time
responding to any of your, or Greg's, postings then I will be sure
to implement that very macro.
>I would suggest that your comment: "And when the press runs out
>of things to say about  the stars on dynasties they start to hype
>the pluggers.  Grant Fuhr, Essa Tikkannen, Butch Goring, Bob
>Nystrom, Bob Gainey, Doug Jarvis, Derek Sanderson, Wayne Cashman,
>Bob Baun, Bob Pulford, Ralph Backstrom, Henri Richard, Dick
>Duff...and so on..." demonstrates a blanket disregard for these
>individuals as contributors to the game...so yes, settle
>down...nobody has claimed that they are hockey gods.
Tarasov claimed that Gainey was a "hockey god."  And Greg ate it up.
And that is what this thread is all about.  If you didn't know
that then why are you responding?
And as for "blanket disregard for these individuals", I can remember
Leaf teams, purely populated by such "individuals", winning four
Stanley Cups.  Teams.  No one ran around telling us that George
Armstrong was the best hockey player in the world.
>>>congenially, as always,
>>>
>>>jd
>>>
>>>--
>>>James David
>>>david@student.business.uwo.ca
>
>>You might consider developing your own style.  After all,
>>imitation is  the sincerest form of flattery and I am quite sure
>>that flattery is not  your intention.
>
>C'mon...it has a nice ring to it...and admit it, you had a good
>laugh.
Right.  I had to get to the end of your posting before I realized you were
a complete joke.
In the future, if you are going to respond to my postings I would appreciate
it if you could present a cogent argument supported by facts gleaned from a
version of reality that most of the rest of us would recognize.
cordially, as always,
rm
--
Roger Maynard
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: apanjabi@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
Subject: Re: How to beat Pittsburgh!
Summary: Take out player
Distribution: world
Organization: Georgetown University
Lines: 42
In article <AfnKOVK00UhB01RDtJ@andrew.cmu.edu>, Robert Angelo Pleshar <rp16+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> 	<kfnJYea00Uh_I1VmUs@andrew.cmu.edu>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: po5.andrew.cmu.edu
> In-Reply-To: <kfnJYea00Uh_I1VmUs@andrew.cmu.edu>
>
> from Anna Matyas:
>>>Now if we could just clone Chelios's personality and transplant it
>>>into all of the defensemen on the Islanders, Capitals, and Devils...
>>>
>>>Gerald
>>
>>In other words, you want to turn them all into assholes so they
>>will spend lots of time in the penalty box and get lots of
>>misconducts?
>>
>>And this comes from a Chelios fan...
>
> Yeah, and also be second in the team in scoring and play about 35
> minutes a game and play on the power play and kill penalties and be the
> best defenseman in the league. I'd take a whole team of Chelioses if I
> could. (That way, when one got a penalty the others could kill it!)
>
> Ralph
>HOW TO BEAT PITTSBURGH???
I.Mario Lemieux
A.Death
1.Too much Kimo
2.Slash to skull
3.Ask the Rangers (Slashing his wrist????)
II.Jaromir Jagr
A.Deportation
1.Send him back to whatever Commie country
he's from
2.Tell him that Bill Clinton is going too
III.Kevin Stevens
A.Fighting
1.Call Bob Probert
2.Call Tie Domi
3.Call my grandmother (She'd kick his ass)
From: dale@odie.cs.mun.ca (Dale Fraser)
Subject: Re: AHL News: St John's news, part XXXVIII
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Lines: 49
brifre1@ac.dal.ca writes:
>In article <1993Apr13.132906.1827@news.clarkson.edu>, farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy) writes:
>> Pete Raymond emailed me this piece of info. Not sure if Game 7 was
>> intentionally or unintentionally omitted (ie date not set).
>>
>> BRI
>> ================================================================
>> [begin quoted material]
>>
>> Because of the Moncton win Friday night Halifax was eliminated thus St.
>> John's will make Halifax home. The first round of play-offs wil take place
>> on these dates.
>>
>> 	April 14 - Halifax Metro Center (Leafs Home Game)
>>         April 17 - Halifax Metro Center
>>
>> 	April 21 - Moncton
>> 	April 23 - Moncton
>>
>> 	April 26 - Halifax Metro Center
>>
>> 	April 30 - Moncton
>>
>This is a Halifax (or at least this Halifax) resident's dream come true!!
>The leafs are my favorite NHL team (and no, I don't know why)!!!!!!!!!
>I'd say that this is even better than the Citadels making the playoffs (a
>Quebec farm team; who cares??).
>By the way, for any NFLD fans....I'm sure ASN will carry some of the games
>(they'd be stupid not to....but then this is ASN)
I haven't heard any news about ASN carrying any games but the local
cable station here in St. John's (Cable 9) is carrying the games live!
Hey, it's better than nothing!
GO LEAFS GO!!!
Dale
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
|   "Why sex is so popular    |    Dale Fraser  dale@odie.cs.mun.ca   |
|       Is easy to see:       | Memorial University of Newfoundland   |
|    It contains no sodium    |     CS Undergrad  -  Class of '92     |
| And it's cholesterol free!" |-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
|       Shelby Friedman       | BLUE JAYS 1992 WORLD SERIES CHAMPS!!  |
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
| *OPINIONS EXPRESSED ABOVE DO NOT BELONG TO ME OR THIS INSTITUTION!* |
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
From: dale@odie.cs.mun.ca (Dale Fraser)
Subject: Re: Hockey and the Hispanic community
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Lines: 28
icop@csa.bu.edu (Antonio Pera) writes:
>	The presence of the new team in Miami(I can't say South Florida;
>it's too long) makes me think of an interesting question. Can you sell
>the Hispanic community on Hockey? Miami is 60-70% Hispanic. This community
>has no experience and no previous exposure to Hockey that I know of. The
>teams in NY and LA which also have big Hispanic groups do not seem to try
>to woo this group. What will Miami do? Could they get Spanish-language
>tv and radio coverage?
I think, as do the owners, that hockey will do well in Miami since there
is a lot of people from the Northeast that spend their winters in
Florida every year. As for the coverage, someone will have to come up
with some money for that since broadcast rights can be expensive!
Just my $0.02!
Dale
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
|   "Why sex is so popular    |    Dale Fraser  dale@odie.cs.mun.ca   |
|       Is easy to see:       | Memorial University of Newfoundland   |
|    It contains no sodium    |     CS Undergrad  -  Class of '92     |
| And it's cholesterol free!" |-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
|       Shelby Friedman       | BLUE JAYS 1992 WORLD SERIES CHAMPS!!  |
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
| *OPINIONS EXPRESSED ABOVE DO NOT BELONG TO ME OR THIS INSTITUTION!* |
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
From: monack@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (david n monack)
Subject: Re: ESPN Tonight
Organization: University of Arizona - Tucson, Arizona
Lines: 17
In <1qkj1kINN3g1@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> swartzjh@RoseVC.Rose-Hulman.Edu writes:
>Has anyone heard what game ESPN is showing tonight.  They said they will
>show whatever game means the most playoff-wise. I would assume this would
>be the Blues-Tampa game or the Minnesota-Red Wings game...  Anyone heard for
>sure???
>		Jeff Swartz
I heard it will be the Minnesota-Detroit game. Don't know the time
though.
Dave
--
David Monack        e-mail: monack@gas.uug.arizona.edu
"Love is the delusion that one woman differs from another." H.L. Mencken
From: richard@amc.com (Richard Wernick)
Subject: Bruins in the Playoffs
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA
Distribution: na
Lines: 19
Well Bruins fans it's playoff time again.
It looks like the B's have peaked at the right time.
Getting out of the Adams is going to be a cat fight to the end.
After what they did to Montreal and Quebec, these teams will be out for
revenge. If Neely can stay healthy, and both Bourque and Moog stay sharp,
we should get to see Neely finally take out two years of frustration
on Ulf (I don't fight) Samuelson. I don't agree with fighting in the NHL,
but if there is one guy who deserves to be taken out good, it's him.
This is going to be a good series, Go Bruins!!!!
Rchard
richard@amc.com
From: j3david@sms.business.uwo.ca (James David)
Subject: Plus minus stat
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Nntp-Posting-Host: sms.business.uwo.ca
Lines: 165
>Post: 51240 of 51243
>Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
>From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
>Subject: Re: Plus minus stat
>Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University,
>Sudbury, ON Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 01:59:36 GMT
<discussion deleted>
>>>Good for you.  You'd only be displaying your ignorance of
>>>course, but to each his own...
>>
>>Roger, I'm not sure here, but I think "ignorance" is really a
>>function of "a lack of knowledge" and not "formulating an
>>opinion"...but hey, if you need to take a cheap shot, then by
>>all means go ahead...that's if it makes you feel better.
>To knowledgeable observers of the game my meaning is obvious.
>Your hockey education is not my responsibility.
MY HOCKEY EDUCATION?  What the f--- are you talking about?  I'm
not even going to try to refute this absolutely insane statement.
>>My word, such vehemence against poor ol' Bob Gainey.  Why does
>>he bother you so much...he was an effective player for his
>>style of play.
>He was just another player.  To laud him as anything more I find
>bothersome.  I hated the Habs.  I hated Lafleur until I realized
>that he was likely the most aesthetically pleasing player to
>ever  skate in my lifetime.  Why would anyone talk about Gainey?
"I hate the Habs" ?...you sound like a 10-year old.  This
statement is just further exemplifies your total inability to
argue objectively about hockey.  Don't give me this crap about
"cogent arguments"...I've yet to read something of yours that is
cogent.  You consistently argue with: (1) emotion; (2) huge,
sweeping statements
Frankly, you have a very unconvincing style.
I'm not defending Bob Gainey...frankly, I don't care for him all
that much.  But your dismissal of him as something less than an
effective hockey player is tiresome...it has no basis in
anything.  How many Calders did he win? I think it was four (go
ahead and refresh my memory).  What about the Conn Smythe?  Was
that a fluke?  Yeah, not the makings of a hockey superstar, I
know, but try to have a reason, any reason, to shoot him down.
>>>go  around.  Who would you rather have as your "checking"
>>>centre?  Doug Gilmour or Doug Jarvis?  For that matter I would
>>>take either Gretzky or Mario as my "checking" centres.  Do you
>>>think Gretzky could cover Bob Gainey?
>>I'm really sorry Roger, but you have lost me completely here.
>>Why don't you ask me if I would rather have Jesus Christ,
>>himself, in nets?
>Did he play hockey at a high level?  Was he any good?  If not,
>why would you bother to bring JC up?  I am talking about hockey
>players here.  If you can't follow the conversation don't follow
>up.  As I said previously, it is not my responsibility to
>educate you.
Hey cowboy!  You're the "expert" who introduced the idiotic
comparison of Gainey with Gretzky and Lemieux...you figure it
out.
>>Now, if you were to compare, say for example, Bob Gainey with
>>Guy Carbonneau, you would have a balanced comparison.
>Sure.  Two journeymen.  Big deal.  Neither one of them is worth
>discussing.
How many individual awards between them? Eight...I don't remember
(once again, please feel free to refresh my memory...and try to
be as sarcastic as possible about my "hockey education").
>I'm wrong AGAIN...hmmm, let's see...where was I wrong in the
>>>I would take Fuhr and Sanderson off of the latter.
OH MY GOD!!!  Did I say that?  Roger...what's your point?  Fuhr
is a goaltender, goaltender's don't "plug"...in his prime, he was
one of the best.  Sanderson was a scrapper...if you stick him on
you may as well include half the Flyers team of the same era.
>>first place?  I'm only guessing here, Rog, but I have a feeling
>>that you've setup a "You're wrong again" macro key on your
>>machine.
>That is an excellent idea and if I decide to waste any more time
>responding to any of your, or Greg's, postings then I will be
>sure to implement that very macro.
Oh Roger, you shouldn't...really.  I don't deserve this...you are
far too accomodating already.
>>I would suggest that your comment: "And when the press runs out
>>of things to say about  the stars on dynasties they start to
>>hype the pluggers.  Grant Fuhr, Essa Tikkannen, Butch Goring,
>>Bob Nystrom, Bob Gainey, Doug Jarvis, Derek Sanderson, Wayne
>>Cashman, Bob Baun, Bob Pulford, Ralph Backstrom, Henri Richard,
>>Dick Duff...and so on..." demonstrates a blanket disregard for
>>these individuals as contributors to the game...so yes, settle
>>down...nobody has claimed that they are hockey gods.
>Tarasov claimed that Gainey was a "hockey god."  And Greg ate
>it up. And that is what this thread is all about.  If you didn't
>know  that then why are you responding?
You seem to have allowed all of these other players fall into
your sweeping, vacuous statement...that's why.  If you want to
debate Gainey, go ahead...but why bring up everybody else?  How
does it support your argument?  Do you have an argument, or do
you just like to throw around a few names hoping to impress us?
>And as for "blanket disregard for these individuals", I can
>remember  Leaf teams, purely populated by such "individuals",
>winning four Stanley Cups.  Teams.  No one ran around telling
>us that George Armstrong was the best hockey player in the
>world.
Great.  I couldn't agree more.  The Flyers won two cups for the
same reasons...deservedly so.  So what?  I don't get it.  Are you
angry that the Leafs didn't get more recognition?
You seem to think these pluggers are "hyped"...I don't
agree...plain and simple.  If you're last statement is some sort
of compromise, fair enough.
>>>You might consider developing your own style.  After all,
>>>imitation is  the sincerest form of flattery and I am quite
>>>sure that flattery is not  your intention.
>>
>>C'mon...it has a nice ring to it...and admit it, you had a good
>>laugh.
>Right.  I had to get to the end of your posting before I
>realized you were  a complete joke.
Not a pleasant bone in your body, eh Rog?  Why are you so
unhappy?  Not getting invited to enough parties?  What?
>In the future, if you are going to respond to my postings I
>would appreciate it if you could present a cogent argument
>supported by facts gleaned from a version of reality that most
>of the rest of us would recognize.
Roger, why are you under the impression that responding to your
posts is some great honour?  You really should stop...it sounds
a little bit pathetic.  Frankly, it's about as honourable as a
good fart.
congenially, as always,
jd
--
James David
j3david@student.business.uwo.ca/s
j3david@sms.business.uwo.ca (James David)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
From: farenebt@logic.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy)
Subject: Re: Playoff predictions
Organization: Clarkson University
Lines: 39
Nntp-Posting-Host: logic.clarkson.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
PATRICK
1st rd:	Pens over Isles in 4.
Devils over Caps in 6.
2nd:	Pens over Devils in 7.
ADAMS
1st rd: B's over Sabres in 5.
Nords over Habs in 5.
2nd:	B's over Nords in 6.
NORRIS
1st:	Hawks over Stars/Blues in 5.
Wings over Leafs in 7.
2nd:	Hawks over Wings in 5.
SMYTHE
1st:	Jets over Canucks in 7.	(call it a hunch)
Flames over Kings in 5.
2nd:	Jets over Flames in 6.
WALES
Pens over B's in 7.
CAMPBELL
Hawks over Jets in 5.
STANLEY
Pens over Hawks in 5.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Bri Farenell			farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu   +
+ AHL and ECAC contact for rec.sport.hockey		Go USA Hockey!	   +
+ Adirondack Red Wings, Calder Cup Champs: '81  '86  '89  '92	   +
+ Clarkson Hockey, ECAC Tournament Champs: '66  '91  '93		   +
+ Glens Falls High Hockey, NY Division II State Champs: '90  '91       +
+ AHL fans: join the AHL mailing list: ahl-news-request@andrew.cmu.edu +
+ CONGRATS TO THE BOSTON BRUINS, 1992-93 ADAMS DIVISION CHAMPIONS      +
+ PHOENIX SUNS, 1992-93 PACIFIC DIVISION CHAMPIONS			   +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: mmb@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Michael Burger)
Subject: TV Schedule for Next Week
Distribution: na
Nntp-Posting-Host: lamar.acns.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523
Lines: 20
United States TV Schedule:
April 18   Devils/Islanders at Pittsburgh   1 EST  ABC  (to Eastern time zone)
April 18   St. Louis at Chicago             12 CDT ABC  (to Cent/Mou time zones)
April 18   Los Angeles at Calgary           12 PDT ABC  (to Pacific time zone)
April 20   Devils/Islanders at Pittsburgh   7:30   ESPN
April 22   TBA                              7:30   ESPN
April 24   TBA                              7:30   ESPN
If somebody would send me the CBC/TSN schedule I'll post that as well.
*******************************************************************************
*  Mike Burger                    *  My Canada includes, Quebec, Ontario,     *
*  mmb@lamar.colostate.edu        *  the Maritimes, the Prairies, and Florida *
*  A Beginning Computing TA Stud  *  four months a year.                      *
*  over 500 students served       *    --Royal Canadian Air Farce             *
*******************************************************************************
*      University of Michigan - 1990  --  Colorado State University - 199?    *
*******************************************************************************
From: "Steve Hayman" <sahayman@cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Hockey and the Hispanic community
Organization: Objectario
Lines: 11
In article <C5I2s2.3Bt@odin.corp.sgi.com> rickc@wrigley.corp.sgi.com (Richard Casares) writes:
>When was the last time you saw a hockey league in the inner city.
Well, actually now that you mention it, a few weeks ago the CBC ran a
documentary on "Ice Hockey in Harlem".  the Canadian Club of New York
(something like that) sponsors a league for kids in Harlem and based on
the TV report they all seemed to be having a lot of fun.  All playing
with regular equipment, jerseys, etc etc, on a proper outdoor rink.  It
looked just like kids playing hockey anywhere else.
Some of the kids were even fortunate to get a trip to a hockey camp in Alberta.
From: jrmst8+@pitt.edu (Joseph R Mcdonald)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Lines: 18
In article <1993Apr15.000256.24403@sol.UVic.CA> gballent@vancouver.UVic.CA writes:
>What it comes down to is that Jagr, despite being an arrogant asshole, is a
>very good hockey player who has had a better season this year than Ron Francis.
>Jagr has more points and a better +/-.
Jagr has a higher +/-, but Francis has had more points.  And take it from
an informed observer, Ronnie Francis has had a *much* better season than
Jaromir Jagr.  This is not to take anything away from Jaro, who had a
decent year (although it didn't live up to the expectations of some).
>Gregmeister
Dean
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dean J. Falcione                                      "Badges? What badges? We
(using jrmst8 by permission                            Don't need no stinkin'
of the owner, Joe McDonald)                           badges!"
From: gsu0033@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Eric Molas)
Subject: Re: Playoff predictions
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Lines: 53
NNTP-Posting-Host: uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
>1st round:
>----------
>PITT vs NYI:  PITT in 4.
>WASH vs NJD:  WASH in 6.
>BOS  vs BUF:  BOS  in 5.
>QUE  vs MON:  MON  in 7.
I'd have to take Quebec in 6.
>CHI  vs STL:  CHI in 4.
Hawks will win, but it will take 5.
>DET  vs TOR:  DET in 6.
>VAN  vs WIN:  WIN in 6.
>CAL  vs  LA:  CAL in 5.
Cal in 7.
>2nd round:
>----------
>PITT vs WASH: PITT in 4.
>BOS  vs MON:  BOS  in 6.
Boston will beat Quebec in 6.
>CHI  vs DET:  CHI  in 7.
>WIN  vs CAL:  CAL  in 5.
>3rd round:
>----------
>PITT vs BOS:  PITT in 5.
Pitt in 6. The Bruins arent a pushover.
>CHI  vs CAL:  CHI  in 5.
The hawks havent had problems with them  all year. Yep, I agree.
>Finals:
>------
>PITT vs CHI: PITT in 5.
Unless the Hawks can somehow change fate, you're right.
Who knows, though.  Maybe some intensive forechecking aka normal Hawks
style will nullify a seemingly unbeatable team.  Maybe the Pens are due
for a let-down.  Hell, how could they _possibly_ extend their record
making play all the way through the playoffs.?
>=============================================
>Walter
--
//Damien Endemyr the Unpure Knight of Doom                          //
//"So I've acquired a taste for blood and have adopted a nocturnal  //
//lifestyle.  That Doesnt mean I'm a vampire....."                  //
From: fmsalvat@eos.ncsu.edu (FRANK MICHAE SALVATORE)
Subject: Re: Get Real.  Caps have no chance
Originator: fmsalvat@c00532-106ps.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: fmsalvat@eos.ncsu.edu (FRANK MICHAE SALVATORE)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Lines: 15
In article <1993Apr15.162719@staff.dccs.upenn.edu>, filinuk@staff.dccs.upenn.edu (Geoff Filinuk) writes:
] 	Anyone who really believes that the Caps can beat
> the Pens are kidding themselves.  The Pens may not loose
> one game in the playoffs.
Let's be honest.  The Pens may not 'loose' one game as you
put it, but they will definitely lose one game.  Remember,
the regular season doesn't mean much when it comes to
playoff time.  The Caps have a shot at least - the Flyers
sure don't
Frank Salvatore
fmsalvat@eos.ncsu.edu
From:  (Proust)
Subject: Re: Individual Winners (WAS: Re: WHERE ARE THE DOUBTERS NOW? HMM?)
Nntp-Posting-Host: td-college-kstar-node.net.yale.edu
Organization: Computing & Information Systems, Yale University
Lines: 15
In article <1993Apr15.170226.11074@cci632.cci.com>, dwk@cci632.cci.com
(Dave Kehrer) wrote:
>
> Well, since you mentioned it...
>
> In article <1993Apr12.142028.6300@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>, migod@turing.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey) writes:
>
> > Lemieux is clearly the MVP
>
> No question here.  Chip in the Masterson as well...
Lemieux for the Masterson? No doubt he had an awe inspiring season,
but what personal records did he set this year? Lemieux should have
Hart locked up...but how about Mike Gartner for the Masterson?
From: jwodzia@fadel.uucp (john wodziak)
Subject: Re: Goalie masks
Reply-To: jwodzia@fadel.UUCP (john wodziak)
Organization: Clemson University Engineering Department
Lines: 25
In article <120666@netnews.upenn.edu> kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller) writes:
>My vote goes to John Vanbiesbrouck.  His mask has a skyline of New York
>City, and on the sides there are a bunch of bees (Beezer).  It looks
>really sharp.
Doesn't it also have the Statue of Liberty on it or is that Richter's Mask?
The back actually has a Bee followed by a Z to represent the Beezer. It
also has something that looks like the three interconnecting circles from
the Led Zepplin 4 album cover. Is that what it is supposed to be? and if
it is does anybody know why he would put it there? Ali?
>    Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
>            "When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
John
"The official Language of Golf is Profanity"
In Hockey Hell...............jwodzia@eng.clemson.edu............John R. Wodziak
The REAL Black and Gold     |In Memorium: #7 Alan Kulwicki 1954-1993   | Bean
Will Triumph over those who |A Polish Yankee Mechanical Engineer,      | Town
are Pretenders to the Crown.|1992 Winston Cup Champion & a great Person| ROCKS!
From: umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Daryl Turner)
Subject: Re: Pens Info needed
Nntp-Posting-Host: ccu.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Lines: 19
In article <1993Apr15.140541.28465@ericsson.se> etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson) writes:
>
> Actually, Swedish coach Curt Lundmark is thinking about leaving two
> spots open for additions from eliminated NHLers. It is Mats Sundin and
> Calle Johansson that Curt hopes can join the team, although in a late
> stage of the tournament. Technically, I seem to recall that you can leave
> spots open until 24 hrs before the WC final.
>
Hmmm...I also heard through the grapevine that Team Finland might try and
leave a spot open for at least one NHLer. (Some guy named Sel{nne, ever
hear of him? :)  They might have to be content with Kurri, though, I hope. :)
Daryl Turner : r.s.h contact for the Winnipeg Jets
Internet: umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca
FidoNET: 1:348/701 -or- 1:348/4  (please route through 348/700)
Tkachuk over to Zhamnov, up to Sel{nne, he shoots, he scores!
The Jets win the Cup!  The Jets win the Cup!
Essensa for Vezina!  Housley for Norris!  Sel{nne for Calder!
From: DMJEWLAL@CHEMICAL.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Derrick M. Jewlal)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Lines: 45
Organization: University of Waterloo
In article <1993Apr14.174828.13445@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
>Subject: Re: plus minus stat
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 17:48:28 GMT
>In <DREIER.93Apr14092901@jacobi.berkeley.edu> dreier@jacobi.berkeley.edu (Roland Dreier) writes:
>
>>Selanne's +7 leads the Jets; Teppo Numminen is +4.  Who do you think
>>is better defensively?  Ron Francis of the Penguins is +5, although he
>>has 97 points, while Jaromir Jagr has only 87 points but is +30.  Is
>>Jagr really better on defense than Francis?  And how exactly should we
>>interpret the fact that Mario Lemieux has by far the highest +/- in
>>the league?  Does he get the Selke as well as the Ross?
>
>The plus/minus does not measure defense alone.  It attempts to measure
>a  player's  total contribution to the team effort.  And certainly, it
>is far from perfect and my posting never implied otherwise.  All  that
>my  posting  suggested  was  that  the +/- was a better indicator of a
>player's effectiveness, when examined in the context of that  player's
>team's  performance, than mere scoring totals alone.  And as for Mario
>getting the Selke - why not?  After Doug Gilmour, I would rather  have
>Lemieux  on the ice in any situation (other than as an enforcer, obvi-
>ously) than any player in the game.  I used to call the Selke the "Bob
>Gainey  Award".   It  came  about as a result of the statement made by
>Anatoli Tarasov: "Bob Gainey is the best hockey player in the  world."
>I am sure that Tarasov was either misquoted, originally, or had a tiny
>bit too much Vodka and was toying with a reporter.  In any event,  the
>NHL  decided  to honour one dimensional checkers along with one dimen-
>sional scorers.  Maybe the league should start awarding the "Doug Gil-
>mour Award" anually  to the league's most effective, all-round player.
>
>cordially, as always,
>
>rm
>
>--
>Roger Maynard
>maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
Hey, what about the "Roger Maynard Award" for the most
annoying fan....?
========================================================
Derrick M. Jewlal
34 Laurel St. , Apt. #1
Waterloo
747 4804
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: SHARKS REVIEW Part 1: Goaltenders
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Lines: 80
As the Sharks' season came to a close tonight, I will start a series of posts,
trying to revisit the players, the trades, the moves, etc., that went through
for the Sharks for the past season.  If you are uninterested, since I will
have the words SHARKS REVIEW in the subject heading in these postings, you can
kill them.
I will first try to evaluate how the players did.  These ratings, of course,
are subject to my own biases, but I hope that I can try to be as objective as
possible.  I will evalute players who finished the season with the Sharks
and/or did not play for another NHL team this season.
Thus, then, let's go to the goaltenders...
#1	BRIAN HAYWARD		Season:	11th
Acquired:	'91-92 from Minnesota in dispersal draft
Grade:		P (D)
It is sad that his career has to come to this dim an end, a career that
featured sharing three Jennings Trophies (with Patrick Roy, in '87, '88, and
'89).  It would indeed be unfair for me to do anything but give him a passing
grade (and skip the letter grading), but he had simply been awful on ice this
year, save for a bright spot or two, and even if he had been healthy, he would
not be any more than the 3rd-string goalie.
But Hayward was a classy individual, who also figured in on the Sharks' first
ever victory, the 3rd game of the season last year against the Calgary Flames.
As he retires, the fans will remember what a good guy he was.
#30	JEFF HACKETT		Season: 3rd
Acquired:	'91-92, from N. Y. Islanders in expansion draft
Grade:		C
Hackett, after (deservedly) winning the team MVP honors last season, simply
wasted the year.  Other than a few good spots (57 saves against Los Angeles,
almost-shutout against Tampa Bay, etc.), Hackett, finishing with 85.6% save
percentage and a 5.28 GAA, watched his status go from the team's #1 goalie to
bench decoration at the end of the season.  He was expected, early, to carry
the team along; instead, he apparently became frustrated, but the an early
injury that forced him to miss 12 games may have been a contributing factor,
but upon return, he simply wasn't up to the task.  He may not return next
year.
#31	WADE FLAHERTY		Season: 1st (still eligible as rookie)
Acquired:	'91-92, signed as undrafted free agent
Grade:		I (A-)
It is pretty hard to evaluate a goaltender on just one game alone, thus the
incomplete grade, but yet in the one start that he did get (against the Calgary
Flames), Flaherty was nothing but sharp for at least two periods.  He started
the season poorly in Kansas City, but finished strong, prompting the Blades'
owner Ron Parker to comment that he should be a candidate for the IHL MVP
honors.  The upcoming IHL playoffs would be a major challenge for him as he
tries to make it into the NHL; last year, he was a capable backup for Arturs
Irbe in the throughout the season and in the Turner Cup playoffs, picking up
all-star honors along with Irbe; now it's time for him to show that he can
share the job with Irbe next year, because with prospects Dan Ryder, Trevor
Robins, and Scott Cashman coming along, if he doesn't make it next year, he
may not ever.
#32	ARTURS IRBE		Season:	1st
Acquired:	'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft
Grade:		B+
I may yet be overly critical of Irbe in a year that he clearly established that
he's a bona fide NHL goaltender, perhaps a bona fide #1 goaltender.  He has
provided most of the little highlight footage that the Sharks team had, getting
the team's first ever shut-out against the Los Angeles Kings on December 26.
He has been fearless in and out of the net, aggressively playing the puck and
making passes, reminding people of a young Ron Hextall (except, of course, the
goonism).  Yet he still needs to develop more consistency, which is hard to do
with such a bad defense in front of him, but if the Sharks are to challenge for
a playoff spot next season, Irbe's the key, as he demonstrated in being named
as a star of the game 13 times in 32 starts.
===============================================================================
GO CALGARY FLAMES!  Al MacInnis for Norris!  Gary Roberts for Hart and Smythe!
GO EDMONTON OILERS!  Go for playoffs next year!  Stay in Edmonton!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
rec.sport.hockey contact for the San Jose Sharks
From: nmcglynn@buffalo.axion.bt.co.uk (Neil A. McGlynn)
Subject: British Championship Playoffs (16 Apr 93)
Organization: BT Labs, Martlesham Heath, Ipswich, UK
Lines: 45
Reply-To: nmcglynn@axion.bt.co.uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: buffalo.axion.bt.co.uk
Organisation: BT Laboratories, Martlesham Heath, IPSWICH UK
Group A					Group B
~~~~~~~					~~~~~~~
Cardiff Devils  7-3  Bracknell Bees	Nottingham Panthers  8-3  Billingham
Humberside      7-7  Whitley Warriors	Murrayfield Racers  11-2  Fife Flyers
Whitley Bay     6-9  Cardiff Devils     Billingham Bombers   6-8  Murrayfield
Humberside      8-5  Bracknell Bees	Nottingham Panthers 11-5  Fife Flyers
Cardiff Devils 10-4  Humberside		Murrayfield Racers   6-4  Nottingham
Bracknell Bees  4-9  Whitley Bay	Fife Flyers          2-5  Billingham
Bracknell Bees  3-8  Cardiff Devils	Billingham Bombers   2-8  Nottingham
Whitley Bay     5-7  Humberside		Fife Flyers          3-12 Murrayfield
P W D L  F  A  P			     P W D L  F  A  P
Cardiff Devils  4 4 0 0 34 16  8*	Murrayfield Racers   4 4 0 0 37 15  8*
Humberside      4 2 1 1 26 27  5	Nottingham Panthers  4 3 0 1 31 16  6*
Whitley Bay     4 1 1 2 27 27  3	Billingham Bombers   4 1 0 3 16 26  2
Bracknell Bees  4 0 0 4 15 32  0	Fife Flyers	     4 0 0 4 12 39  0
* indicates qualified for Championship Finals
Relegation/Promotion A			Relegation/Promotion B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~			~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Basingstoke    10-4  Swindon Wildcats   Sheffield Steelers  12-8  Peterborough
Durham Wasps   13-5  Romford Raiders	Slough Jets          1-9  MK Kings
Basingstoke     6-0  Durham Wasps	Sheffield Steelers   9-4  Milton Keynes
Swindon         8-5  Romford Raiders    Milton Keynes Kings  4-6  Peterborough
Durham Wasps   17-2  Swindon Wildcats	Slough Jets          2-12 Sheffield
Romford         4-10 Basingstoke 	Peterborough        10-2  Slough Jets
Romford        *8-3* Durham Wasps	Peterborough	     8-5  Sheffield
Swindon         7-11 Basingstoke        Milton Keynes Kings 10-4  Slough Jets
P W D L  F  A  P			     P W D L  F  A  P
Basingstoke     4 4 0 0 37 15  8	Sheffield Steelers   4 3 0 0 38 22  6
Durham Wasps    4 2 0 2 33 21  4	Peterborough         4 3 0 1 32 23  6
Swindon         4 1 0 3 21 43  2	Milton Keynes Kings  4 2 0 2 27 20  4
Romford Raiders 4 1 0 3 22 34  2	Slough Jets	     4 0 0 4  9 41  0
/-- / /-- /--   /-- / \ / /-- /-/ --- o Neil A. McGlynn   +44 473 645659
/-- / /__ /--   /-- /   / /-- /_/ /__  o nmcglynn@axion.bt.co.uk
/   / /   /--   /   /__ / /-- /\  ___/  o British Telecom Laboratories,
---------------------------------------	  Martlesham Heath, Ipswich, UK
From: cdkaupan@eos.ncsu.edu (CARL DAVID KAUPANG)
Subject: Stop predicting
Originator: cdkaupan@c00544-106ps.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: cdkaupan@eos.ncsu.edu (CARL DAVID KAUPANG)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Lines: 10
It is really annoying to see all of these
predictions on the Net.  Who really cares
who you think will win?  Please stop with
the predictions, we all know the Caps are
going to win the Cup, so let it go at that.
David Kaupang
cdkaupan@eos.ncsu.edu
From: mikkot@romulus.math.jyu.fi (Mikko Tarkiainen)
Subject: Re: Pens Info needed
Nntp-Posting-Host: romulus.math.jyu.fi
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Lines: 32
In article <C5K9E8.M3@ccu.umanitoba.ca> umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Daryl Turner) writes:
>Hmmm...I also heard through the grapevine that Team Finland might try and
>leave a spot open for at least one NHLer. (Some guy named Sel{nne, ever
>hear of him? :)  They might have to be content with Kurri, though, I hope. :)
True, coach Matikainen is ready to keep a spot for Teemu all the way
until the medal games. He wants Teppo Numminen, too. And Kurri, but for
them the spots cannot be left open for too long. Esa Tikkanen we have
already.
Even without these players I think we have pretty good team. Young,
hungry, talented guys, no old players that have got everything (except
the gold). Yesterday's practise game, SWE-FIN 6-6, shows that the two
world's best hockey teams ;) are in prime shape.  The Finn line
Riihijarvi(slightly injured)-Saarikoski-Viitakoski shined. I bet these
two teams are the best in the NHL, too. Roger, Roger?
What do you people think about Team Canada with Lindros, Brind'Amour,
Burke, Ranford, Recchi, Dineen...? Can they beat the Finns:?
Coaching news:
Alpo Suhonen (ex-Jets) to Jokerit (now verified),
Boris Majorov (ex-Jokerit) to Tappara,
Vasili Tichonov (ex-Assat) to San Jose Sharks
(assistant coach),
Sakari Pietila to Lulea (silver team in Elite-serien)
FW Mikko Makela (ex-TPS) to Malmo IF.
G Markus Ketterer (Jokerit) still has no contract.
FW Timo Saarikoski to Jokerit, watch out for him in next week.
From: voecking@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Volker Voecking)
Subject: Re: expanding to Europe:Dusseldorf
Originator: voecking@hphalle5c.informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Lines: 29
In article <1993Apr15.192231.27574@abo.fi>, MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF) writes:
|> In <PKORTELA.93Apr15164732@lk-hp-17.hut.fi> pkortela@snakemail.hut.fi writes:
|>
|> >
|> > DEG has many german-born forwards in the team. In fact the majority of players
|> > are german-born. 1992-93 DEG had 11150 average in 11800 spectator arena.
|>
|> Interesting! One of our German friends here (Robert?) told me their forwards
|> were all Canadian-Germans. Perhaps somebody can sort this out for us?
As far as I know Dusseldorf has only one Canadian-German forward (i.e. a  player
who was born in Canada but now has a German passport).
Benoit Doucet became german by marriing a german and he is going to play
for Germany in the WC.
The other Canada-born forwards are:
Peter-John Lee (has British passport)
Chris Valentine
Dale Dercatch
Steve Gootas
Earl Spry (?)
At the moment there are only three German-born forwards coming into my mind:
Bernd Trunschka, Andreas Brockmann, Ernst Koepf
Volker
From: sforsblo@vipunen.hut.fi (Svante Forsblom)
Subject: Re: Suhonen will NOT go to Jokerit
Keywords: Suhonen
Nntp-Posting-Host: vipunen.hut.fi
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Lines: 17
>In <tvartiai.734823058@vipunen.hut.fi> tvartiai@vipunen.hut.fi (Tommi Vartiainen) writes:
>>According to the inside information, Alpo Suhonen won't be the next headcoach
>>of Jokerit. It's pretty sure that Boris Majorov will continue, although owner
>>of the team previously said that he will chance the coach.
>>Tommi
>Wrong information. They just announced that Suhonen has made a deal with
>Jokerit.
>
>Tommi
And Boris Majorov has made a 1+1 year deal with Tappara.
Svante
From: montana@pinetree.org (David Wong)
Subject: hockey playoff pool: LAST CHANCE!
Keywords: hockey playoff pool: LAST CHANCE!
Organization: Gordon's Pinetree * Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 66
This will be my last post ( promotion ) of the hockey pool.. I will
update the pool ( or try to ) every wednesday
Subject: Please join my hockey playoff pool.
Deadline for pool: Midnight Saturday
Rules: Read on
Cost: NONE
PRIZES: NONE
Send replies to : Montana@pinetree.org
Note: if your entries is send by midnight saturday it will be accepted
please include your name
Rules to the ACME hockey playoff pool
Critierias
Pick 9 forwards  ( as long as they are forwards LW=RW=C is okay)
Pick 6 defensemen
( arrange them in a lines, 3 forwards and two defense = 1 line
( and arranged them in line order , which of your players would
( play in the first line and which plays in the second line
Pick 1 designated playmaker
( can be any positions...try a defensemen )
Pick 1 designated scorer ( can be any positions )
Pick 1 goal-tender
Pick a team   ( the one you think may win the cup )
*note: players can only be chosen once !
ie Cannot have Sakic as forward and again as designated passer
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Calculation of points:
( except for designated scorer and playmaker)
1 assist  = 1 pt   IXI  1 goal = 1 pt  II
( for players in line 1, their pt totals will be *2 )
line 1 = pts * 2
line 2 = pts * 1.5
line 3 = pts * 1
1 win     = 2 pt  ( for goalies)
The team that wins the Cup = 10 pts
For the designated playmaker         Designated
Calculation will be as follows       Scorer:Goal    = 3 pts
Every goal scored = 0.5 points             Assists = 0.5 pts
Every assists     = 2 points
In the event of a tie, the tie will be broken by unmodified
Goal totals and then by game winning goals
----SAMPLE-------------------------------------
eg designated scorer = Jeremy Roenick
Actual: G=12, A=10, Pts=22  Modified G=(12*3) + A=(10*0.5) = 41
.
designated playmaker = Steve Smith
Actual: G=1,  A=11, Pts=12  Modified G=(1*0.5)  + A=(11*2) = 22.5
.
line 1 = J Murphy(24)- G Courtnall(14)- M Messier(14)
Dave Manson(12)-  Iafrate(7)
Total points = 142 points for that line!
--
Internet: montana@pinetree.org (David Wong)
UUCP: pinetree!montana
Gordon's Pinetree -- Ottawa, ON, Canada -- +1 613 526 0702 -- v.32bis/v.42bis
From: juvirtan@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jukka A Virtanen)
Subject: Re: Plus minus stat
Organization: University of Helsinki
Lines: 24
In <1993Apr16.015936.11303@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>>>Good for you.  You'd only be displaying your ignorance of
>>>course, but to each his own...
>>
>>Roger, I'm not sure here, but I think "ignorance" is really a
>>function of "a lack of knowledge" and not "formulating an
>>opinion"...but hey, if you need to take a cheap shot, then by all
>>means go ahead...that's if it makes you feel better.
>To knowledgeable observers of the game my meaning is obvious.  Your
>hockey education is not my responsibility.
Just curious, Roger, but since you have such a vast knowledge of the
game and the league, how come you haven't made a living out of it?
There must be a lot of demand for expertise in the field. I'm sure
you'd be of great help to, say, the Leafs as an assistant coach or
a scout. Or maybe try a career as a reporter or tv commentator...
I might be wrong, of course, and you already have.
--
Jukka A Virtanen
juvirtan@cc.helsinki.fi
University of Helsinki
From: etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson)
Subject: Sweden-Finland, April 15
Nntp-Posting-Host: uipc104.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Telecom, Stockholm, Sweden
Lines: 119
Played in Scandinavium, Gothenburg, April 15 1993:
==================================================
SWEDEN - FINLAND  6-6 (1-2,3-1,2-3)
1st: SWE 1-0 Peter Popovic      (Markus Naslund)                     6:10
FIN 1-1 Ville Siren        (Keijo Sailynoja)                    8:44 (pp)
FIN 1-2 Juha Riihijarvi    (Timo Saarikoski,Vesa Viitakoski)   13:12 (pp)
2nd: FIN 1-3 Jari Korpisalo     (Kari Harila,Rauli Raitanen)         6:48
SWE 2-3 Jan Larsson        (Mikael Renberg,Stefan Nilsson)      7:25
SWE 3-3 Hakan Ahlund       (Thomas Rundqvist)                   8:56
SWE 4-3 Roger Akerstrom    (Roger Hansson)                      9:13
3rd: SWE 5-3 Stefan Nilsson     (Patrik Juhlin,Charles Berglund)     2:20
FIN 5-4 Keijo Sailynoja                                         9:23
FIN 5-5 Keijo Sailynoja                                         9:44 (ps)
SWE 6-5 Mikael Renberg     (Hakan Ahlund,Thomas Rundqvist)     17:16
FIN 6-6 Jari Korpisalo                                         17:44
Shots on goal:      Penalties:     Attendance:    Referee:
Sweden       8 10 10 - 28       5*2min         6,799          Peter Andersson
Finland     12 10 11 - 33       6*2min,1*10min                (Sweden)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sweden opened the scoring as Markus Naslund made a drop pass at the Finnish
blue line, Popovic picked it up and advanced towards the Finnish goal and
shot a nice hard wrist shot in Ketterer's top corner. Ville Siren's slap
shot from the blue line on power play made it 1-1, and Juha Riihijarvi
scored a nice goal in another power play when he close in front of goal
put the puck high over Aslin, 1-2 after the first period.
The Finns started the second period with really good pressure. Korpisalo
made it 1-3 with another goal from close range high over Aslin. Then,
during the Finnish pressure, Sweden turned the game around in 1:47.
Mikael Renberg worked hard behind the Finnish goal, and passed the puck to
Jan Larsson in front, who backhanded the puck low, 2-3. Rundqvist entered
the Finnish zone and passed to Ahlund, and the Finnish defense let Ahlund
skate in and take a shot that Ketterer dropped into the goal, 3-3.
Next, Roger Hansson -behind the goal- sent the puck back to the blue line
where Roger Akerstrom took a slap shot and Ketterer didn't see the puck since
there was traffic in front, 4-3.
Third period started with a nice goal by Stefan "the Shadow" Nilsson. Stefan
and Patrik Juhlin entered the Finnish zone, Patrik passed the puck back to
Stefan who alone with Ketterer made no mistake, 5-3.
Then, Keijo Sailynoja show started. He reduce and equalized the lead in only
21 seconds! First he scored the 5-4 goal, and after that he came in alone
with Aslin but was tripped by Aslin to get a penalty shot. Sailynoja
made a nice penalty shot, showed forehand and put in with a low backhand shot.
The Swedes seemed to head for a win when Mikael Renberg scored the 6-5 goal
late in the game on a nice power play combination. Renberg waited in the slot,
showed that he wanted the puck on the backhand side, Ahlund passed the puck
and Renberg took a turnaround shot low in Ketterer's goal's far side.
But Jari Korpisalo had other plans as he only 28 seconds later scored the
game's final goal to make it 6-6. Korpisalo took a slap shot from a narrow
angle that -maybe- Aslin should have saved.
All in all, a decent game where the defense wasn't the best.
Both teams juggled around the lines a bit in the second and third period
to try no combinations.
Renberg and Rundqvist plays well together in the Swedish team. Larsson-
Nilsson-Juhlin best line overall again, it seems to be a working WC line.
Stillman good on defense.
Some players aren't good enough for the WC though. Hakan Ahlund (faell ner
hjaelmen och jobba!), Roger Hansson, Challe Berglund, Kenny Jonsson
will likely have to leave for NHL pros.
Two-goal scorers Jari Korpisalo and Keijo Sailynoja played well in the
Finnish team. Markus Ketterer didn't have a very good game, we've seen him
a lot better, so Lindfors is probably Finland's starting goalie in the WC.
I heard that Esa Tikkanen will join the Finnish team. It would be inter-
resting to know which other pros coach Matikainen counts on for the WC.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Starting lines:
SWEDEN					FINLAND
35. Peter Aslin			30. Markus Ketterer
8. Kenneth Kennholt			 2. Mikko Haapakoski
14. Fredrik Stillman			 3. Ville Siren
10. Hakan Ahlund			28. Jarkko Varvio
9. Thomas Rundqvist			40. Mika Nieminen
29. Mikael Renberg  			18. Keijo Sailynoja
27. Roger Akerstrom			 4. Erik Hamalainen
7. Arto Blomsten			 8. Kari Harila
20. Jan Larsson 	 		25. Rauli Raitanen
4. Stefan Nilsson 			26. Petri Varis
5. Patrik Juhlin			14. Jari Korpisalo
3. Peter Popovic			 5. Timo Jutila
32. Stefan Larsson			44. Harri Laurila
11. Roger Hansson			24. Juha Riihijarvi
33. Fredrik Nilsson			22. Timo Saarikoski
24. Peter Ottosson			11. Vesa Viitakoski
6. Pasi Sormunen
12. Janne Laukkanen
19. Markus Naslund			29. Juha Ylonen
21. Peter Forsberg			27. Timo Peltomaa
18. Jonas Bergqvist			17. Marko Palo
Played parts of the game:
22. Charles Berglund			15. Mika Alatalo
6. Kenny Jonsson			16. Saku Koivu
20. Marko Palo
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
((\\  //| Staffan Axelsson
\\  //|| etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se
\\_))//-|| r.s.h. contact for Swedish hockey
From: MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF)
Subject: Finland/Sweden vs.NHL teams (WAS:Helsinki/Stockholm & NHL expansion)
In-Reply-To: tervio@katk.Helsinki.FI's message of Thu, 15 Apr 1993 09:39:37 GMT
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24
Lines: 120
In <tervio.40@katk.Helsinki.FI> tervio@katk.Helsinki.FI writes:
>    Now what if the two teams were merged (this has been proposed in Tampere
> with Ilves ( =Lynx) and Tappara ( =Axe).  The fans wouldn't take it !
> They rather see their teams out of the playoffs most of the time or even
> relegated than merged.  It's not that difficult to understand, it's just
> like here in Helsinki.  You *grow up* being either a Jokerit- or HIFK -fan.
> The other team is the last team in the world you would support.  I'm not
> talking about 'hate' but about extremely deeply rooted rivalry.
"Deeply rooted rivalry?" Ahem, Jokerit have been around since 1967 and joined
the top flight only in the early '70s. Helsingfors IFK have been around since
1897 but fans only started taking hockey seriously in the 1960s so I think
you're exagerating here.
>    However, it's been proved that both fan groups can cheer the same team
> - that's "the Finnish national team".  Maybe that's how you could set up a
> huge franchise in Finland.  No one has ever said that the team must be
> called after one city or play all its games on one arena.  Just one Team
> Finland and Team Sweden in the NHL just wouldn't make any sense - we have
> way more talent than 1/24th of the total of North American talent.  After a
> couple of seasons you would never see the cup going anywhere outside the
> Nordic  (presuming that our teams would have the advantage in  drafting
> local talent, as prooposed).
That's a rather bold claim, in the light of how successful the Canadian &
American Olympic teams have been . . . and they've had to play according to our
set of rules and on international ice. The 1992 Olympic teams contained about
as much talent as your average expansion team. Canada had Eric Lindros, Sean
Burke, Joe Juneau and Chris Kontos. Another four or five have been deep subs in
the NHL. As for the Yanks, Keith Tkachuk, Scott Lachance, Bret Hedican, Shawn
McEachern, Steve Heintze, Ted Donato, Joe Sacco and Bill Guerin have been
3rd/4th line players in the NHL, while Robb Stauber has done well for the
Kings in goal. Nothing more. In fact, I'm sure that an All-Star team assembled
from the best Finnish League teams would do no better in the NHL than Hartford
or Tampa Bay currently are doing.
---
But what happens if _all_ top-class Finnish & Swedish players gradually end up
with Helsinki & Stockholm as the North American-based ones gradually retire and
no Canadian/American team is allowed to draft new players from Scandinavia?
Here is what THE HOCKEY NEWS scouts think of our NHL-based players:
(28-30=superstar)
(23-27=star)
(18-22=NHL regular+)
(13-17=NHL regular)
( 8-12=role player)
FINLAND:
D-Jyrki Lumme.......20
D-Teppo Numminen....20
D-Peter Ahola.......13
C-Jari Kurri........25
C-Christian Ruuttu..16
R-Teemu Selanne.....27
L-Esa Tikkanen......20
(Obviously, Selanne's ratings would be higher today than they were in January)
SWEDEN:
D-Ulf Samuelsson....21
D-Fredrik Olausson..20
D-Niklas Lidstrom...18
D-Calle Johansson...18
D-Kjell Samuelsson..17
D-Tommy Sjodin......13
D-Tommy Albelin......7
C-Mats Sundin.......26
C-Thomas Steen......18
R-Thomas Sandstrom..22
R-Ulf Dahlen........18
R-Michael Nylander..13
L-Per-Erik Eklund...18
L-Johan Garpenlov...16
L-Mikael Andersson..15
L-Jan Erixon........14
This would be interesting. Clearly, Finland's top five players (Winnipeg's
Selanne & Numminen, Vancouver's Lumme, Los Angeles' Jari Kurri and New York's
Tikkanen) are right up there with any five-man unit Pittsburgh & co. have. But
I have my doubts about the home-based Finnish players - the national team did
well in the Canada Cup and World Championships largely due to the efforts of
Markus Ketterer (the goalie), 3-4 or the players listed above and luck. There's
presumably a lot of decent players in Finland that wouldn't be superstars at
the highest level but still valuable role players, however. My guess would be
that the Finnish Canada Cup team would be a .500 team in the NHL.
---
Sweden is easier to judge because they have more players in North America.
Their points total (16 players) is 274 - seven more than Ottawa's 22 top
players combined! If we estimate there are six more NHL regulars back home in
Sweden, an all-Swedish team would assemble about 350-360 skill points.
Deducting some points from Pittsburgh, NY Rangers and other teams that rely on
Swedish players, the Swedish team would finish in sixth place - about as high
as Boston, Vancouver, Calgary and Montreal on paper! So, the "dynasty" talk
isn't completely unfounded here. An all-Finnish/all-Swedish team might have an
advantage because the players would be playing at home half of the time,
won't have to adapt to a foreign country and a foreign language, and presumably
play the wide-open European variant of hockey rather than have to learn the
North American checking game. However, if free agency becomes a factor the top
Scandinavian players still might end up playing for large-market teams after a
couple of years the same way Edmonton's "dynasty" crumbled in the late '80s.
Some fringe players likely will be drafted by other NHL teams as having an
exclusive talent pool might be a bit unfair after all. I'd settle for a
compromise, prohibit all European teams from signing a North American during
the first two rounds but allow them to keep their top two players. After this,
the amateur draft should be open to anyone.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  J O O   J O O   J O K E R I T  !  !  !    Finland over Czech in the Final
>    B R U I N P O W E R ! ! !               Bruins over Blackhawks in 6
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MARCU$
From: ayari@judikael.loria.fr (Ayari Iskander)
Subject: NHLPA poll (Stats/3rd uptade)
Organization: Crin - Inria-Lorraine
Lines: 54
3rd uptade:
Here are the standings for the poll after 39 votes: 5 points for 1st, 4 for 2nd,... 1 point for 5th:
EA/ NHLPA game
1. DET 102
2. CHI  97
3. NY   74
4. VAN  73
5. MTL  69
6. PIT  33
7. WSH  29
8. BOS  21
9..ASW  16
10.CGY  10
11.QUE   9
12.ASE   8
13.WPG   7
14.LA    5
OTW   5
STL   5
TOR   5
18.BUF   3
PHI   3
TBY   3
21.SJ    2
22.MIN   1
Atlanta to win Turner Cup 1 (not in the game, but 1 person vote)
24.EDM   0
HTF   0
LI    0
NJ    0
4 teams have no point
Continue to send your votes in this format (until April 20th, approximately)
------------------------------------------------
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
------------------------------------------------
Keywords:
--
_____________________________________________________
Email : Iskander.Ayari@loria.fr ou ayari@loria.fr
_____________________________________________________
From: alvstad@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Mad Dog)
Subject: Truly a sad day for hockey
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Lines: 19
A fine 26 year history came to a close tonight, as the Minnesota North Stars,
or Norm's Stars (whichever you prefer) lost to the Red Wings by a score of
5-3.  The Stars goals were scored by Mike McPhee and Ulf Dahlen, who netted
two including the final one in franchise history, with less than a minute to
play.
Tonight, on the air on the Stars TV telecast, announcer Al Shaver, the voice
of the North Stars, stated basically that he will not follow the team to
Dallas.  Shaver, when asked by his son (who was doing the broadcast with him),
"What will you do now?" responded, "First I'm going to get me a new pair of
slippers.  Then I'm going to sit in my easy chair and watch the world go by."
Thank you North Stars, and thank you Al Shaver, for 26 years of Minnesota
memories.
Joel Alvstad
From: pkortela@snakemail.hut.fi (Petteri Kortelainen)
Subject: Re: New Finnish Star is born?
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Lines: 22
Distribution: inet
NNTP-Posting-Host: lk-hp-17.hut.fi
In-reply-to: hahietanen@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi's message of Thu, 15 Apr 1993 09:40:41 GMT
In article <1993Apr15.114041.1@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi> hahietanen@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi writes:
>I saw yesterday on TV a game between Team Sweden and Team Finland.
>Most of us might know that it was played in Stockholm and the result
>was 4:3 for the home team. That's nothing very special... But I was
>very surprised of Saku Koivu. I must admit that he surprised me
>already in the Finnish playoffs. And now on team Finland!
>Saku Koivu is a light weight player, if we consider his size: According
>to my stats he is only 172cm and 68kgs! And he is only 18! (23.11.74).
>But he is a real two-way player! Skates well, can score, gives nice
>passes, does even bodycheckings!!? He is really something to watch
>in the WC.
>The size isn't always everything. Maybe we remember Harlamov...
>And they say that Saku is still growing up (3cm during last year)...
Saku isn't that small any longer I guess I heard he is 177cm tall at the
moment and will still grow 6-8cm.
Petteri Kortelainen
From: pkortela@snakemail.hut.fi (Petteri Kortelainen)
Subject: Re: Helsinki/Stockholm & NHL expansion?
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Lines: 20
Distribution: inet
<C5H9wr.6J3@polaris.utu.fi> <1993Apr15.095653.17514@abo.fi>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lk-hp-17.hut.fi
In-reply-to: MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI's message of Thu, 15 Apr 1993 09:56:53 GMT
In article <1993Apr15.095653.17514@abo.fi> MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF) writes:
>In <C5H9wr.6J3@polaris.utu.fi> franti@polaris.utu.fi writes:
>Not too low perhaps, but surely not as high as that of an European NHL
>division. The Finnish team, for example, would contain all players currently
on
>the national team plus a top-class foreigner or two. They would be in an
>entirely different league than TPS or Jokerit, both of whom have perhaps a
>dozen players of international class - if even that. Why settle for a minor
>league when you could have the best?
How many players of international class an average NHL team has. 6-10?
Top players just play more in smaller rinks. Is the quality of European hockey
really poor, then recent years only few north-american (usually good farm
players) players have got place in Finnish league or Elitserien, while most
have been shipped back.
Petteri Kortelainen
From: stamber@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Kevin L. Stamber)
Subject: Re: Radio stations
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Lines: 31
In article <ragraca.735252641@vela.acs.oakland.edu>, ragraca@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Randy A. Graca) writes:
> greanias@texas.mitre.org (Steve Greanias) writes:
>
>
>
> >	I do not have cable and on the nights the Caps don't play, I
> >would like to tune in other games.  Does anyone have a list of
> >the radio stations which broadcast the games for the NHL teams?
>
>
> >			Thanks in advance
>
> I can give you a couple.  In Detroit, WJR (760) will be broadcasting
> at least the first couple of games of the Wings-Toronto series, and
> since they broadcast at 50000 Watts, you may be able to pick it up
> after dark where you are at.  The Pittsburgh Penguins games used to be
> broadcast on KDKA 1020, but I don't know whether they will be pre-empted
> by baseball (and moved to another station) or not.  You can try those
> if the local baseball teams aren't playing at the same time, anyway.
>
> --Randy
>
KDKA has first rights to Pirates games, and will split probably 50-50
in conflicts; for Penguins games which are preempted, check out
102.5 WDVE FM (that's right, DVE).  It is also 50,000 watts.
Kevin L. Stamber
Purdue University
no funny .sig today
From: jimg@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Jim Gorycki)
Subject: New Franchise name
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida
Lines: 31
The new name is Florida Panthers.
The panther is an endangered species, mostly located in the Everglades.
A couple of years ago, there were license plates made with Panthers on
them (part of the revenue were to go to some protection fund).
The name of the new President of the Panthers should be announced today.
As of yesterday's paper, Huizenga's new hockey team will take the ice at
the Miami Arena this fall.  The team has a guaranteed two-year lease with
the arena, with four one-year options that could run through 1999.
"It's not our choice", James Blosser, a lawyer and Huizenga Aid said
about ruling out the arena as a long term option.  "The NHL told us we
can't stay there.  It's not economically feasible."
One reason is because the Miami Heat basketball team controls skybox
and advertising revenue at the arena, reducing the hockey team's profit
potential.
The hockey team is attracting arena site proposals from Broward, Dade,
and Palm Beach counties.
A leading site is vacant land near Joe Robbie Stadium, where residents
10 days ago agreed to drop their opposition to a hockey arena, ending
an eight-year battle of wills.
Compliments of the News/Sun-Sentinel.
Jim G.
"Fitz...Sanchez...Castranova..."
From: jimg@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Jim Gorycki)
Subject: Panther's President
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida
Lines: 46
As I promised, I would give you the name of the Panther's president.
After Huizenga announced the team name, he announced that Bill
Torrey is named the first president of the Panthers.
A little Bio from _Sun-Sentinel_
Torrey, the architect of four consecutive Stanley Cup champions as
persident and general manager of the New York Islanders.
Throughout his 27 years in the NHL, Bill Torrey's bow ties have become
as much of a signature as Andre Agassi's hair.
The Panthers will introduce a uniform, insignia, and ticket-price
information in early next month.  In the meantime, Huizenga leaves the
day-to-day operation in the hands of Torrey and Bob Clarke, the VP and
GM.
The Florida Panthers was chosen as the name of South Florida's NHL team
to focus attention on an endangered species.  There are 30 to 50 Florida
Panthers in the Everglades National Park, the Big Cypress National
Preserve and other parts of southwestern Florida.
"The Panther is the quickest-striking of all cats," Torrey said.
"Hopefully that's the way we'll play on ice."
More BIO:
In Torrey, Huizenga has the first man hired by the expansion Islanders
in 1972 and the one most responsible for guiding the Islanders to four
consecutive Stanley Cup championships (their first after only eight
seasons) and 14 consecutive winning seasons.  As executive vice president
of the California Golden Seals, Torrey watched the Seals go to the play-
offs in 1968, only their second NHL season.
"I guess this completes my own personal hat trick", said Torrey, 58, a
native of Montreal but a resident of Bear Lakes Country Club in Palm
Beach.
Jim G.
other accounts:
gorycki@sol.cse.fau.edu
jimg@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"I repeat myself when under stress. I repeat myself when under stress.
I repeat myself when under stress. I repeat myself when under stress.
I repeat..."  Adrian Belew, "Indicipline"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lli+@cs.cmu.edu (Lori Iannamico)
Subject: Pens playoff radio coverage (was:Re: Radio stations)
Keywords: KDKA, WDVE, KBL
Nntp-Posting-Host: lli.mach.cs.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Lines: 42
In article <ragraca.735252641@vela.acs.oakland.edu> ragraca@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Randy A. Graca) writes:
>greanias@texas.mitre.org (Steve Greanias) writes:
>
>I can give you a couple.  In Detroit, WJR (760) will be broadcasting
>at least the first couple of games of the Wings-Toronto series, and
>since they broadcast at 50000 Watts, you may be able to pick it up
>after dark where you are at.  The Pittsburgh Penguins games used to be
>broadcast on KDKA 1020, but I don't know whether they will be pre-empted
>by baseball (and moved to another station) or not.  You can try those
>if the local baseball teams aren't playing at the same time, anyway.
According to this morning's Post-Gazette:
The Pens will be carried by KDKA-Radio(1020 am), unless the Pirates
are playing.  When the Pirates play, the games will be carried by
WDVE(102.5 fm).  WDVE will carry 12 games, starting with tonight's
game.
In fact, after this season, KDKA will no longer be the flagship
station for the Pens.  The Penguins and KBL have struck a new
deal regarding the TV and radio rights to the games.  It seems
more than likely that WDVE will be the flagship radio station next
season.  KBL will carry 62 games on tv,  with 17 of the games to be
simulcast on KDKA-TV.  The remaining 22 games, as well as some of the
early round playoff games, will be available by "subscription tv" only.
To receive the games, you'll have to pay a one time hook up fee, and
then a monthly fee of $11-12 dollars.
Also, under the new deal, there will no longer be radio/tv
simulcasts.  There will be a TV broadcast team, and a radio
broadcast team.
No word on who the announcers will be.  Mike Lange and Paul Steigerwald
are both under contract with KDKA, but their contracts expire at the
end of this season.  KBL President Bill Craig said he'd like to hire
Lange and Steigerwald.
Lori
Contact for the Penguins
lli+@cs.cmu.edu
From: Robert Angelo Pleshar <rp16+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Wirtz is a weenie
Organization: University Libraries - E&S Library, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 12
NNTP-Posting-Host: po5.andrew.cmu.edu
So what's the deal with Bill Wirtz? Apparently, the Blackhawks - St.
Louis game was a standing room only sell out as usual, but the Hawks
reported the attendace as 16,199. Gee, I wonder if Wirtz is planning to
use this as justification for continuing to keep home games off of TV?
What a schmuck.
In other TV news, the Penguins announced yesterday that they will have 3
fewer broadcast TV games, and will have 22(!) games on some sort of
subscription / pay-per-view system. Yuck.
Ralph
From: jwh@sei.cmu.edu (John Huber)
Subject: Re: NHL Team Captains
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Lines: 27
In article <1993Apr19.213015@IASTATE.EDU>, njdevils@IASTATE.EDU (Cire Y. Trehguad) writes:
|> Anna Matyas (am2x+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote:
|> : Michael Collingridge writes:
|> : >And, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been traded,
|> : >resigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any other
|> : >team captain trivia would be appreciated.
|> ;
|> : Wasn't Ron Francis captain of the Whalers when he was traded to
|> : Pittsburgh?
|>
|>   And Rick Tochett was the captain of the Flyers when traded to the Pens
|> recently...
|>
And of course, Mike Ramsey was (at one time) the captain in Buffalo prior to
being traded to Pittsburgh.  Currently, the Penguins have 3 former captains
and 1 real captain (Lemieux) playing for them.  They rotate the A's during the
season (and even the C while Mario was out).  Even Troy Loney has worn the C
for the Pens.
-Jay
John W. Huber, Jr. - aka Jay   | Penguins - 1991,1992 Stanley Cup Champions
Software Engineering Institute | Pirates - 1990,1991,1992 NL East Champions
SEI 3409        (412) 268-3550 | MasterCraft - The ONLY boat for skiing
From: seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr)
Subject: Re: Thumbs up to ESPN
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Keywords: ESPN, Detroit, Toronto, Hockey Coverage
Lines: 16
In article <1993Apr20.032017.5783@wuecl.wustl.edu>, jca2@cec1.wustl.edu (Joseph Charles Achkar) writes:
>
>  It was nice to see ESPN show game 1 between the Wings and Leafs since
> the Cubs and Astros got rained out. Instead of showing another baseball
> game, they decided on the Stanley Cup Playoffs. A classy move by ESPN.
What, did you leave the room each of the 100 or so times they said that
there WERE NO OTHER NIGHT BASEBALL GAMES? Every break they took back at
the studio mentioned it, followed by 'so...we're gonna show you hockey
instead.' My wife and I are hoping for rain at every baseball game they
have a feed for tommorrow night...
Point is, be glad they showed hockey, but if baseball was available
anywhere else you can bet you would've watched baseball last night.
pete clark
Subject: Travesty at the Joe Louis
From: caldwell8102@mtroyal.ab.ca
Organization: Mount Royal College, Calgary, Alberta
Lines: 17
(Detroit, April 19)
In a development that shocked most knowledgable observers, the Detroit Redwings
scored no less than six goals against the best goaltender in the world en
route to a 6-3 win over the best team in the NHL, the Toronto Maple Leafs.
The Leafs could not be faulted, as they completely dominated the inferior
Detroit squad and clearly deserved to win. Only the biased officiating of
Andy Van Hellemond and the idiots that insisted upon throwing an octopus on
the ice at every stoppage in an obvious attempt to distract the superior
visiting side prevented an all-out massacre of the Wings by the league's best
team.
Alan
P.S. This is sweet, Roger. So sweet. I look forward to the next installment on
Wednesday night. I trust you do, too.
Subject: Re: Who picks first?
From: caldwell8102@mtroyal.ab.ca
Organization: Mount Royal College, Calgary, Alberta
Lines: 11
In article <1993Apr17.181421.14349@epas.toronto.edu>, sclark@epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Clark) writes:
> 	According to THE FAN here in T.O., Ottawa has won the Daigle e
> sweepstakes.  They didn't mention why, but San Jose had more goals
> than the Sen-sens, so I have a hunch this is why Ottawa would pick
> first.....
If I'm not mistaken, San Jose had more wins than Ottawa. First tiebreaker in
the NHL is always most wins.
Alan
From: ccohen@pitt.edu (Caleb N Cohen)
Subject: Re: ABC coverage
Distribution: usa
Lines: 22
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Anna Matyas (am2x+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote:
: Antonio Pera writes:
: >	I loved the ABC coverage. The production was excellent. The appearance
: >was excellent. It had a sleek modern look. This was the first time I heard
: >Thorne & Clement & I thought they were great. My only request is to leave
: >Al Micheals out of this. He annoys me.
:
: I was skeptical before the game but was pleasantly surprised at the
: coverage.  I was particularly impressed by the close range camera coverage
: of work in the corners and behind the play without losing a beat getting
: back to the puck.
Boy - everyone has been ripping on ESPN's hockey coverage (or is it just
Pittsburgher's who are thrilled with Lange & Steigy?)  For all of you
who are unaware -> ESPN bought the air time from ABC and did all the
production, advertising sales, commentating, etc -> and even
reaped any $ made...
Enjoy,
Caleb
From: arsenaul@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Arsenault Michel)
Subject: Looking for boxscores
Organization: Universite de Montreal
Distribution: na
Lines: 5
I am looking for all the 84 boxscores of any NHL team for
some personal research.  Can someone help me ?
Michel Arsenault
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: div. and conf. names
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Distribution: na
Lines: 50
In <1993Apr19.191126.27651@newshub.ists.ca> dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra) writes:
>However, that aside, the real question is whether you like the idea of
>changing the names based on the reasons given for it (making it easier for
>the 'casual fan'), or whether you like the idea of unique divisional names
>based on individuals who do deserve the honour.  IMO, the latter is a nice
>and unique touch that differs from other sports.  In addition, I do not
>think that changing divisional names will have an effect on the number of
>people that are interested in hockey, so it's a pointless exercise anyway.
There are several problems with the way the game is being presented to the
fans.  I feel that geographical names would enhance regional loyalties
more than names honouring personages.  And of course, they would not appear
nearly as confusing to one approaching the sport for the first time.
Another thing that bothers me is the points system.  Percentages, as used in
the other major sports are clearly more informative.  When I look at the
NHL standings the first thing I have to do is make a quick calculation to
account for games in hand (which is almost always the case).  Some will
object to percentages, claiming perhaps, that it is an "Americanization"
of the sport but I feel that using percentages is more informative and
whether it is "American" or not is irrelevant.
>If the current names are inappropriate, then that is a separate issue, not
>central to the original article.  Something to consider additionally is
>whether or not players like Orr who 'contributed to the glory of the sport'
>would have been able to do so _without_ an organized professional league to
>play in.  In this case, honouring builders of the _league_ as opposed to
>builders of the _sport_ becomes a chicken-and-egg type question. (although
>it was the chicken.....)
Even if Orr couldn't have contributed without the likes of Norris, you would
have to agree that Norris couldn't have contributed without the likes of Orr.
And taking a poll of most fans would quickly tell you who the fans feel made
the more meaningful contribution.
>>Exactly true.  Naming divisions and trophies after Smythe and the bunch
>>is the same kind of nepotism that put Stein in the hall of fame.  I have
>>always thought that this was nonsense.
>Dunno if the Stein comparison is justifiable, since it doesn't look as though
>his 'unanimous acceptance' to the Hall will hold up.
It doesn't look as if the division names are going to hold up either does it?
--
cordially, as always,                      maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
"So many morons...
rm                                                   ...and so little time."
From: Scott.Marks@launchpad.unc.edu (Scott Marks)
Subject: Re: NHL Team Captains
Nntp-Posting-Host: lambada.oit.unc.edu
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Lines: 18
>And of course, Mike Ramsey was (at one time) the captain in Buffalo prior to
>being traded to Pittsburgh.  Currently, the Penguins have 3 former captains
>and 1 real captain (Lemieux) playing for them.  They rotate the A's during the
>season (and even the C while Mario was out).  Even Troy Loney has worn the C
>for the Pens.
I had heard(perhaps incorrectly) that while Lemieux was out, noone wore a
C on their jersey.  The As took turns doing captain duties(whatever they
are).
Scott...
scott.marks@launchpad.unc.edu
scott.marks@launchpad.unc.edu
--
The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: steveg@cadkey.com (Steve Gallichio)
Subject: Re: NHL Team Captains
Organization: Cadkey, Inc.
Lines: 28
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.net
Anna Matyas (am2x+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote:
> Wasn't Ron Francis captain of the Whalers when he was traded to
> Pittsburgh?
No.
In what still, IMHO, ranks as the all-time greatest PR blunder (not to
mention on-ice blunder) the Whalers ever committed, GM Eddie Johnston and
Coach Rick Ley 'decided' that Francis was incapable as a leader and stripped
him of the Captain's "C" in December of 1990. The whole organization (read:
EJ and Ley, and by default owner Richard Gordon because he was too much of
a dupe to know how much he was being blind-sided by EJ) dumped on Francis all
season, starting with refusing to sign him to a new contract, publicly
humiliating him, stripping him of the "C", and then trading him that Spring
to the Penguins. Classy guy, that EJ.
The loss of Francis (and too a lesser extent, Ulf), was one of a series of
decimating player moves by EJ which stripped the personality and fan-awareness
from the team that has put them in the precarious position they are in today.
[Gratuitous good EJ note...he did preside over the organization when it
acquired Verbeek, Cassels, Sanderson, Poulin, Nylander, etc. He stripped the
roster but he DID lay a foundation.]
-SG (a real live Hartford Whalers season ticket holder)
-steveg@cadkey.com
From: steveg@cadkey.com (Steve Gallichio)
Subject: The Most Average Player in the NHL
Organization: Cadkey, Inc.
Lines: 41
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.net
And now, I interrupt your regularly scheduled news reading to bring you
another message sponsored by the Department of Really Mundane Statistics:
I passed the final individual player stats posted here the other day through
a filter to average out games, goals, assists, points, and penalty minutes
for the mythical average NHL pro who played in the league this season. (Why?
Because it's Monday and I didn't feel like writing any REAL code...)
Anyway, after I wiped out the 60-odd goalies in the list, I came up with:
NHL average:		55 GP      11 G      19 A      30 Pts      69 PIM
Then I passed the list through a second time to come up with the players who
had the smallest percentage difference in each of the categories.
Marty McInnis (NYI)	56 GP (1%) 10 G (9%) 20 A (5%) 30 Pts (0%) 24 PIM (65%)
Igor Kravchuk (EDM)	55 GP (0%) 10 G (9%) 17 A (10%) 27 Pts (9%) 27 PIM (53%)
These two are close in games, goals, assists, and points, but are too far off
in PIM. This leaves, as the most average player in the NHL:
Bobby Carpenter (WAS)	65 GP (18%) 11 G (0%) 17 A (10%) 28 Pts (6%) 63 PIM (8%)
What an honor.
I also passed the list through with the goalies still included. Kravchuk and
Carpenter were still in the top three, but Rob DiMaio came flying up from
behind to take the title:
NHL average:		53 GP      10 G      17 A      27 Pts      64 PIM
Igor Kravchuk (EDM)     55 GP (3%) 10 G (0%) 17 A (0%) 27 Pts (0%) 27 PIM (50%)
Bobby Carpenter (WAS)   65 GP (22%) 11 G (10%) 17 A (0%) 28 Pts (3%) 63 PIM (1%)
Rob DiMaio (TB)		54 GP (1%) 9 G (9%) 15 A (11%) 24 Pts (11%) 62 PIM (3%)
It's all really kind of underwhelming when you think about it.
-SG
And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...
From: steveg@cadkey.com (Steve Gallichio)
Subject: Re: NHL team in Milwaukee
Organization: Cadkey, Inc.
Lines: 38
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.net
Charlie Betz (cbetz@romulus.cray.com) writes:
> After reading some of the reports of possible NHL moves to Milwaukee or that
> Milwaukee should have an NHL team, I thought I'd pass along a story I heard
> recently.  This is second hand, so I don't know how true it is, but I have
> no reason to doubt it either.
>
> Bradley Center in Milwaukee is home to the Milwaukee Admirals minor leauge
> hockey team.  The owner of the Admirals (sorry, I can't remember his name)
> either owns or at least shelled out the majority of the funds to build the
> Bradley Center.
Lloyd Pettit.
>
> Supposedly he was approached by the NHL about an expansion franchise, but
> turned it down because he thought the franchise fee of $50 million was too
> high.
>
> Like I said, I don't know whether this story is true or just a rumor, but if
> it's true, don't look for an NHL team in Milwaukee anytime soon.  The Admirals
> aren't going to be forced out of the building and you won't see an NHL club
> and a minor league club in the same building, especially since the NBA's
> Milwaukee Bucks play there as well.
Yes, it is true that he refused to buy a franchise from the NHL for $50M; but
at the time the reason was that the established market for teams was much
less than that. He felt that no one would pay $50M for an expansion team, and
that he would simply wait to buy an existing franchise for less than that. But
the market fooled him, and 5 teams have been created for $50M apiece in the
last three years, and even the existing teams can't be moved for less than
$50M and I doubt that he could get one for that little.
Pettit gambled and lost. Now he'll have to pay more.
-SG
From: steveg@cadkey.com (Steve Gallichio)
Subject: Re: Possible Canadian WC Team?
Organization: Cadkey, Inc.
Lines: 14
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.net
> This is an all-point team for the Canadian NHLers who are not playoff bound...
CENTERS
[...]
> Geoff Sanderson, Hartford
[...]
Sanderson will be on Team Canada, but he'd be out of position as a center.
Although he was drafted as a center and played there as a rookie, Sanderson
scored 46 goals this season as a left wing.
-SG
From: steveg@cadkey.com (Steve Gallichio)
Subject: Re: WC 93: Results, April 18
Organization: Cadkey, Inc.
Lines: 19
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.net
Gerald Olchowy (golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca) writes:
> Podein is an interesting case...because he was eligible to
> play in Cape Breton in the AHL playoffs like Kovalev, Zubov,
> and Andersson...obviously Sather and Pocklington are not
> the total scrooges everyone makes them out to be...certainly
> in this case they've massively outclassed Paramount and the
> New York Rangers.
What is the policy regarding players and the minor league playoffs versus WC?
I know that the Rangers are holding back Kovalev, Zubov, and Andersson for
Binghamton, but I also know that the Whalers wanted Michael Nylander to play
for Springfield, while Nylander wanted to play for Sweden. The Whalers allowed
the NHL to decide, and the NHL chose the WCs. How does this differ from the
Rangers and Oilers? Did the Whalers have to go through the league, or could
they have forced Nylander to play in Springfield?
-SG
From: steveg@cadkey.com (Steve Gallichio)
Subject: Re: Tie Breaker....(Isles and Devils)
Organization: Cadkey, Inc.
Lines: 18
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.net
Rex Wang (wangr@vccsouth22.its.rpi.edu) spews forth stupidly:
> 	Are people here stupid or what??? It is a tie breaker, of cause they
> have to have the same record. How can people be sooooo stuppid to put win as
> first in the list for tie breaker??? If it is a tie breaker, how can there be
> different record???? Man, I thought people in this net are good with hockey.
> I might not be great in Math, but tell me how can two teams ahve the same
> points with different record??? Man...retard!!!!!! Can't believe people
> actually put win as first in a tie breaker......
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me that you don't actually ATTEND Rensselaer, and
that you just work for ITS. Or that this was tounge-in-cheek.
Does this mean that I should be cutting off my alumni contributions, or
increasing them?
-SG
From: leunggm@odin.control.utoronto.ca (Gary Leung)
Subject: Re: NHL Team Captains
Organization: University of Toronto, Systems Control Group
Lines: 20
In article <1993Apr20.151818.4319@samba.oit.unc.edu> Scott.Marks@launchpad.unc.edu (Scott Marks) writes:
>>And of course, Mike Ramsey was (at one time) the captain in Buffalo prior to
>>being traded to Pittsburgh.  Currently, the Penguins have 3 former captains
>>and 1 real captain (Lemieux) playing for them.  They rotate the A's during the
>>season (and even the C while Mario was out).  Even Troy Loney has worn the C
>>for the Pens.
>
I think that Mike Foligno was the captain of the Sabres when he
got traded to the Leafs. Also, wasn't Rick Vaive the captain of
the Leafs when he got traded to Chicago (with Steve Thomas for
Ed Olcyzk and someone). Speaking of the Leafs, I believe that
Darryl Sittler was their captain (he'd torn the "C" off his
jersey but I think he re-claimed the captaincy later on) when he
was traded to the Flyers.
Oh yeah, of course, Gretzky was the captain of the Oilers before
he was traded wasn't he?
Gary
From: c5ff@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (COOK  Charlie)
Subject: NHL Summary parse results for games played Mon, April 19, 1993
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Lines: 79
Toronto                          1 1 1--3
Detroit                          1 4 1--6
First period
1, Detroit, Yzerman 1 (Gallant, Ciccarelli) 4:48.
2, Toronto, Cullen 1 (Clark, Gill) 10:44.
Second period
3, Detroit, Sheppard 1 (Probert, Coffey) pp, 5:04.
4, Detroit, Burr 1 (Racine) sh, 6:42.
5, Detroit, Chiasson 1 (Coffey) pp,11:00.
6, Detroit, Howe 1 (Yzerman, Drake) 14:46.
7, Toronto, Gilmour 1 (Borschevsky, Ellett) pp, 19:59.
Third period
8, Detroit, Racine 1 (Primeau, Drake) 5:10.
9, Toronto, Lefebvre 1 (Cullen, Pearson) 7:45.
Detroit: 6    Power play: 6-2   Special goals:  pp: 2  sh: 1  Total: 3
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Burr               1    0    1
Chiasson           1    0    1
Ciccarelli         0    1    1
Coffey             0    2    2
Drake              0    2    2
Gallant            0    1    1
Howe               1    0    1
Primeau            0    1    1
Probert            0    1    1
Racine             1    1    2
Sheppard           1    0    1
Yzerman            1    1    2
Toronto: 3    Power play: 5-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Borschevsky        0    1    1
Clark              0    1    1
Cullen             1    1    2
Ellett             0    1    1
Gill               0    1    1
Gilmour            1    0    1
Lefebvre           1    0    1
Pearson            0    1    1
-----------------------------------------
Winnipeg                         1 0 1--2
Vancouver                        2 0 2--4
First period
1, Vancouver, Adams 1 (Linden, Bure) pp, 1:23.
2, Vancouver, Craven 1 (Bure, Murzyn) 9:56.
3, Winnipeg, Steen 1 (Shannon, Housley) pp, 17:53.
Second period
No scoring.
Third period
4, Winnipeg, King 1 (Barnes) 3:43.
5, Vancouver, Linden 1(Courtnall, McLean) 12:16.
6, Vancouver, Ronning 1 (Courtnall) 18:31.
Vancouver: 4    Power play: 6-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Adams              1    0    1
Bure               0    2    2
Courtnall          0    2    2
Craven             1    0    1
Linden             1    1    2
McLean             0    1    1
Murzyn             0    1    1
Ronning            1    0    1
Winnipeg: 2    Power play: 3-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Barnes             0    1    1
Housley            0    1    1
King               1    0    1
Shannon            0    1    1
Steen              1    0    1
-----------------------------------------
From: riel@unixg.ubc.ca (William Riel)
Subject: Re: Travesty at the Joe Louis
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Lines: 12
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca
In article <1993Apr20.005512.3382@mtroyal.ab.ca> caldwell8102@mtroyal.ab.ca writes:
>(Detroit, April 19)
>
>In a development that shocked most knowledgable observers, the Detroit Redwings
>scored no less than six goals against the best goaltender in the world en
>route to a 6-3 win over the best team in the NHL, the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Not only that, but if I'm not mistaken Detroit scored 4 goals on their first
five shots on net...looks like Toronto's cream cheese run continues (or is
that swiss cheese? after watching Potvin I'm leaning towards the latter)
Bill
From: chuck@mks.com (Chuck Lownie)
Subject: Re: Tie Breaker....(Isles and Devils)
Organization: Mortice Kern Systems Inc., Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
Lines: 27
In article <lrw509f@rpi.edu> wangr@rpi.edu writes:
>	Are people here stupid or what??? It is a tie breaker, of cause they
>have to have the same record. How can people be sooooo stuppid to put win as
>first in the list for tie breaker??? If it is a tie breaker, how can there be
>different record???? Man, I thought people in this net are good with hockey.
>I might not be great in Math, but tell me how can two teams ahve the same points
>with different record??? Man...retard!!!!!! Can't believe people actually put
>win as first in a tie breaker......
>
>
I didn't see any smilies in this message so.......
W     T    L    PTs
Team A      50    30    4    104
Team B      52    32    0    104
There you go.  Two teams that tie in points without identical records.
--
From: wdsst3@cislabs.pitt.edu (William D Sands)
Subject: request for video in Pittsburgh area
Keywords: Sunday afternoon
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Lines: 11
There was apparently a 30 minute special here on the Penguins'
season on ABC (WTAE - channel 4), immediately preceding the opening
game against the Devils on Sunday.  I only turned it on in time to
watch the credits.  If anyone taped it and is willing to let me borrow
it to dub it, I would appreciate it.  I would be willing to come pick
it up, and I'll return it the next day and buy you a beer.  Please
respond via e-mail.  Thanks a lot.
Oh yeah.  Was it any good?
-Billy
From: galvint@cs.nps.navy.mil (thomas galvin)
Subject: Re: Bay area media (Wings-Leafs coverage)
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA
Lines: 30
In article <DREIER.93Apr19195132@durban.berkeley.edu> dreier@durban.berkeley.edu (Roland Dreier) writes:
>The San Francisco Bay area media is reporting tonight that the Detroit
>Red Wings beat the Toronto Maple Leafs 6-3.  Can someone who is not
>part of the media conspiracy against the Leafs tell me how the game
>really went (I am expecting a 4-0 win for the Leafs, shutout for
>Potvin, hat trick for Andreychuk and a goal and 3 assists for
>Gilmour).  If the Leafs really lost, how many penalties did whichever
>biased ref was at the game have to call against the Leafs to let the
>Red Wings win?
>
>Thank you very much.
>--
>Roland Dreier                                        dreier@math.berkeley.edu
Sorry to disappoint you but the Red Wings earned the victory...easily.
I watched most of the game on ESPN (as soon as I realized that they
were televising the game which was at the beginning of the second).
The Maple Leafs were flat.  Very flat.  Meanwhile, the Red Wings were
skating very freely and dictating the pace of the game.  I didn't
detect any bad penalty calls (Van Hellemond did his usual good job).
Toronto looked like how I expected them to for their first playoff
game in a few years -- nervous.
For the Leafs sake, I hope they can rid themselves of the butterflies
for game 2.  If game 1 is indicative of the series, it's gonna go
quick.
-Tom Galvin       galvint@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil
From: galvint@cs.nps.navy.mil (thomas galvin)
Subject: Re: Schedule...
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA
Lines: 41
In article <121411@netnews.upenn.edu> kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller) writes:
>In article <1qup1lINNotb@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> swartzjh@RoseVC.Rose-Hulman.Edu writes:
>>Does anyone have the games ESPN will be airing this week???  Hopefully the
>>Detroit/Toronto game tongiht.  I though ABC did a decent job by getting some
>
>F**king *NO* hockey games televised nationally tonight!  What the hell is
>this???  Why the hell is ESPN showing some stupid baseball game, when
>baseball is not even three weeks into the season and hockey is in the
>playoffs???  No, wait, I know the answer: $$$$$$  But still!  It really
>pisses me off to no end.  They better start putting some more f*cking
>games on, or they will never make any money off of the deal that brought
>hockey back to ESPN.  AARGH!!!!  (not that I'd watch anyway, but hockey
>needs all the publicity it can get)
>
>--
>    Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
>						LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
>	kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
>
>	   "A cow is not a vegetarian dish."  -- Keith Keller, 1993
You obviously don't understand how TV scheduling works.  ESPN had
prior contracts to baseball to show Monday night games and had
contracted all the other bs shows well in advance.  The NHL TV deal
was very late in the scheduling process (you normally have to do this
one-plus year out.  The NHL package was finished two weeks before the
season started).  ESPN has shown tremendous commitment to the NHL by
squeezing in extra telecasts when it could (like the last Minnesota
game) and putting Stanley Cup games as backup to their baseball
telecasts (which by favorable circumstances they could pull off last
night).
But the bottom line is that ESPN cannot break contracts at will.  They
must honor the previous deals they made.  $$$$ _does_ have something
to do with it, especially if you risk a $$$$$$$$ lawsuit for breach of
contract with baseball.
So relax.  I'm happy.  (I don't get SportsChannel anyway).
-Tom Galvin              galvint@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil
From: aa711@Freenet.carleton.ca (Ken Darcovich)
Subject: west coast NHL playoff games
Reply-To: aa711@Freenet.carleton.ca (Ken Darcovich)
Organization: The National Capital Freenet
Lines: 28
Us easterners who have newspapers with editors
unsympathetic to playoff pools, often don't get
summaries from west coast games since they
finish too late at night for the morning edition.
I (and I'm sure others too) would greatly appreciate
it if scoring summaries of west coast playoff games
could be posted to this group right away.
basically, all we need are goal scorers and assists,
don't bother with times, penalties, shots etc...
this would make a lot of pool-obsessed people very
happy.
I guess with the Senators out golfing now, the
local papers have lost interest.  ;-)
thanks.
kd.
--
From: bks2@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (bryan.k.strouse)
Subject: NHL PLAYOFF RESULTS FOR GAMES PLAYED 4-19-93
Organization: AT&T
Keywords: Division semis game one
Lines: 77
NHL PLAYOFF RESULTS FOR 4/19/93.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CONFERENCE SEMI-FINALS        BEST OF SEVEN
PATRICK              ADAMS              NORRIS              SMYTHE
NJ                  BUF   (leads 1-0)   STL   (leads 1-0)   WIN
PIT   (leads 1-0)   BOS                 CHI                 VAN   (leads 1-0)
NYI                 MON                 TOR                 LA    (leads 1-0)
WAS   (leads 1-0)   QUE   (leads 1-0)   DET   (leads 1-0)   CAL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Toronto Maple Leafs                       1   1   1   -   3
Detroit Red Wings    (leads series 1-0)   1   4   1   -   6
1st period: DET, Yzerman 1 - (Gallant, Ciccarelli) 4:48
TOR, Cullen 1 - (Clark, Gill) 10:44
2nd period: DET, Sheppard 1 - (Probert, Coffey) (pp) 5:04
DET, Burr 1 - (Racine) (sh) 6;42
DET, Chiasson 1 - (Coffey) (pp) 11:00
DET, Howe 1 - (Yzerman, Drake) 14;46
TOR, Gilmour 1 - (Borschevsky, Ellett) (pp) 19:59
3rd period: DET, Racine 1 - (Primeau, Drake) 5:10
TOR, Lefebvre 1 - (Cullen, Pearson) 7:45
Powerplay Opportunities-Maple Leafs 1 of 5
Red Wings   2 of 6
Shots on Goal-	Maple Leafs   5   9   9  -  23
Red Wings    13   8  12  -  33
Toronto Maple Leafs--Potvin (0-1) (33 shots - 27 saves)
Detroit Red Wings--Cheveldae (1-0) (23 shots - 20 saves)
ATT-19,875
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Winnipeg Jets                           1   0   1   -   2
Vancouver Canucks  (leads series 1-0)   2   0   2   -   4
1st period: VAN, Adams 1 - (Linden, Bure) (pp) 1:23
VAN, Craven 1 - (Bure, Murzyn) 9:56
WIN, Steen 1 - (Shannon, Housley) (pp) 17:53
2nd period: NONE
3rd period: WIN, King 1 - (Barnes) 3:43
VAN, Linden 1 - (Courtnall, McLean) 12:16
VAN, Ronning 1 - (Courtnall) 18:31
Powerplay Opportunities-Jets    1 of 3
Canucks 1 of 6
Shots on Goal-	Jets      7   5  10  -  22
Canucks   9  12  12  -  33
Winnipeg Jets--Essensa (0-1) (33 shots - 29 saves)
Vancouver Canucks--McLean (1-0) (22 shots - 20 saves)
ATT-15,918
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\|||||/
-SPIKE-
From: willis@oracle.SCG.HAC.COM (Stan Willis)
Subject: Series 1, game 1; Kings 6 @ Flames 3
Reply-To: willis@empire.dnet.hac.com (Stan Willis)
Organization: none
Lines: 269
1992-93 Los Angeles Kings notes and game reports.
-------------------------------------------------
Kings 6 @ Calgary Flames 3 - 04/18/93
The third place Kings opened the 1993 Stanley Cup Playoffs in Calgary, against
the second place Flames and came out with an impressive 6-3 victory in front of
a non-sellout crowd of 18,605 at the Saddledome in Calgary.
Symthe Division playoff hockey this was.  Both teams seemed a bit tense in the
opening period though the Kings scored off the opening face-off.  The Kings got
into the flow of the game much earlier than the Flames as they played out-
standing team defense.  It took the Flames 9:45 of the first period to record
their first shot on goal.  The Kings, ranked 16th of the 16 playoff teams on
penalty killing, shut down the Flames.  The Flames went 0-8 on the power play
and could record only 8 shot on goal in those 8 opportunities.  The Kings had
their problems on the power play, yet they did manager to score 2 goals in 10
tries.
The Kings forwards back-checked while the defense stood the Flames up at the
blue line, allowing the Kings to take took the home ice advantage away from the
Flames.  Rob Blake missed the game due to the lower back contusion but is ex-
pected to be in the lineup on Wednesday. Wayne Gretzky suffered a charlie horse
in his right leg.  He took a few shifts in the second period before retiring to
the dressing room for the rest of the game.  Interviewed on the radio this
morning, he stated that he was fine and would be in the lineup on Wednesday.
1st period:
1-0. The Kings got things started right off the opening face-off.  Gretzky won
the draw with the puck going to Sydor.  He crossed center ice and slapped the
puck into the Flames zone and behind the net.  The puck carried around to the
far side where Robitaille wacked at it and the rebound bounced to Sandstrom. He
put the puck behind the Flames net where Gretzky picked it up.  Gretzky set up
in 'his office', moved to the near side and passed into the near circle where
Sydor had moved in.  Sydor, who got the puck between the face-off dot and the
hash mark, shot off the pass, beating Vernon low and between the legs.
Millen and Fleury went off at 4:57.  Skrudland went off at 12:25 but the Kings
failed to convert.  Carson went off at 14:53 and the Flames failed to convert.
Dahlquist went off at 18:34 and Dahl went off at 19:30, giving the Kings a 30
second 5on3 which they failed to convert.  The Kings recorded 2 goal posts in
the period.
2nd period:
The Kings opened with a 5on3 carried over from the 1st period which they failed
to convert on.  With 6 seconds left in the 5on4, Vernon put a bouncing puck into
the stands and received a delay of game.
1-1. Calgary evened the score on the ensuing Kings power play.  Kurri, with the
puck in the neutral zone, tried to put the puck into the Flames zone but it hit
the stick of Fleury and bounced to Suter at the Flames blue line.  Suter skated
down the near wing and into the Kings zone.  He faked a shot at the circle and
skated around Kurri. As he cut thorugh the crease, he got Hrudey to go with him
and he put the puck behind Hrudey, on his stick side for a short hander.
2-1. The Kings reclaimed the lead 25 seconds later on the same power play.
Shuchuk, in the far circle passed to Sydor at the top of the slot and headed
for the net.  Sydors shot hit Shuchuk in the back and dropped into the low slot
where 2 Kings (Shuchuk and Granato) were being checked by 3 Flames.  Carson
came from the far corner, picked up the loose puck and snapped a wrist shot
between the legs of Vernon from 5 feet above the crease.
3-1. The Kings widened their lead just 24 seconds later.  Rychel was checked off
the puck at the Flames blue line.  Taylor picked up the puck and sent a pass
cross the slot to Huddy.  Huddy shot off the pass, from the near face-off dot,
beating a diving Vernon on the glove side.
4-1. 2:59 later, the Kings had a 3 goal lead.  McSorley took a shot form the
near point that hit a Flame and deflected towards the boards.  Marty got his
own rebound, skated to the bottom of the circle and sent a pass into the low
slot that hit Dahlquist on the leg and deflected past the stick of Vernon.
Skrudland went off at 10:53 but the Kings could not convert.  Sydor went off at
12:35 and Watters went off at 14:40, giving the Flames a 5 second 5-3 but they
failed to convert.  McSorley went off at 17:19 and the Flames had 3 consecutive
power plays but the Flames killed it themselves when Suter went off for high
sticking at 17:31.  Sandstrom went off at 18:03 to close out the period.  The
Kings hit 3 goal post in the period.
3rd period:
The Kings used the phrase "Initiate, not retaliate" and it was very evident here
in the 3rd period as the Kings continued to pound the body and the Flames
continued to take bad penalties to take themselves out of the game.
5-1. The Kings extended their lead to 4 goals at the 1:06 mark.  The Kings shot
the puck into the near corner of the Flames zone.  Vernon went behind the net to
cut off the puck but he could not control it.  Donnelly, who was behind him,
wacked at the puck, sending it into the low slot.  As Vernon slid back in to the
crease, Granato got a shot that hit a Flame and bounced to the left of the net
where Millen fired the rebound behind Vernon.
Sydor went off at 1:24; Nieuwendyk went off at 3:22 as the teams skated 4 on 4.
5-2. Otto, skating down the far side, stepped around McSorley, cut to the net
and passed to Dahlquist in the low slot.  Dahlquist cut through the top of the
crease and put the puck in under a diving Hrudey.
Carson and Rychel came in on a 2-1.  When Carson passed across to Rychel, Fleury
tripped Rychel with no call.  The puck got shoveled into the far corner where
Fleury knocked Rychel down and checked him from behind into the boards, drawing
a 5-minute major and a game misconduct at the 6:08 mark.  Unfortunately, the
Kings squandered the 5 minute power play when Granato (at 6:44) and Watters (at
8:19) took penalties.
5-3. The Flames closed to within 2 at the 8:47 mark.  MacInnis, at the near
point, passed to Yawney at the far point.  He took a few strides towards the
net, wound up and drove a shot off the near post and in over the glove of
Hrudey.  The play started on another faceoff that the Kings lost.  Timeout - LA.
6-3. MacInnis took a penalty at 9:56 and the Kings converted on the power play
to seal the victory.  Sandstrom, skating down the far wing in the Flames zone
cut towards the back of the net.  Just as he crossed the goal line, he passed
the puck into the low slot, on the far side, to Carson who shot off the pass,
beating Vernon on the ice, stick side.
At the 16:17 mark, Skrudland went off for slashing and Stern went crazy as he
went after Shuchuk.  Stern wound up with a double minor for roughing, a single
minor for cross checking and a 10 minute misconduct, and he took the Flames
right out of the game.
On the plus side:  The Kings, for the most part, played very disciplined hockey
as they let Calgary retaliate.  The Kings played good team defense and excellent
penalty killing.
On the minus side:  The Kings lost almost every face-off.  This must improve or
the Flames will surely get that power play back on track.
Notes:
------
The Kings recalled Guy Leveque, Brandy Semchuk and Jim Thomson from Phoenix.
Wayne Gretzkys 1st period assist was his 307th career playoff point.
The Kings entered the game 24th in the league in shots per game against, giving
the opposing team an average of 34.4 shots per game.
Flames goaltender Mike Vernon entered the game with a 3-9-1 record in afternoon
games.  The Flames entered the game with a 34% success rate on the power play
over their last 9 games.
The teams were 3-3-1 against each other in the regular season.
Playoffs:
Campbell Conference:
Smythe Division:
LA  6  @ CAL 3 		LA leads 1-0
WIN    @ VAN
Norris Division:
STL 4  @ CHI 3		STL leads 1-0
TOR    @ DET
Wales Conference:
Adams Division:
BUF 5  @ BOS 4 (OT)	BUF leads 1-0
MON 2  @ QUE 3 (OT)	QUE leads 1-0
Patrick Division:
NJ  3  @ PIT 6		PIT leads 1-0
NYI 1  @ WAS 3		WAS leads 1-0
Records:
--------
vs	Smythe	 Norris	 Patrck	Adams	Overall
================================================
Home:    0- 0-0  0-0-0   0-0-0  0-0-0    0- 0-0
Road:    1- 0-0  0-0-0   0-0-0  0-0-0    1- 0-0
==============================================================
Total:   1- 0-0  0-0-0   0-0-0	0-0-0	 1- 0-0
Box Score:
=========================
Calgary      0 1 2 - 3
Los Angeles  1 3 2 - 6
=========================
1st period:
LA  Sydor 1 (Gretzky, Sandstrom), 0:16
LA  Millen - high sticking, 4:57
CAL Fleury - high sticking, 4:57
CAL Skrudland - interference, 12:25
LA  Carson - tripping 14:53
CAL Dahlquist - holding stick, 18:34
CAL Dahl - roughing 19:30
2nd period:
CAL Verson - delay of game (served by Ashton), 1:34
CAL Suter 1 (Fleury), 2:48 (sh)
LA  Carson 1 (Shuchuk, Sydor), 3:13 (pp)
LA  Huddy 1 (Taylor, Rychel), 3:37
LA  McSorley 1 (unassisted), 6:36
CAL Skrudland - elbowing, 10:53
LA  Sydor - tripping, 12:35
LA  Watters- hooking, 14:40
LA  McSorley - holding, 17:19
CAL Suter - high sticking, 17:31
LA  Sandstrom - hooking, 18:03
3rd period:
LA  Millen 1 (Granato, Donnelly), 1:06
LA Sydor - hooking, 1:24
CAL Nieuwendyk - tripping, 3:22
CAL Dahlquist 1 (Otto), 4:23
CAL Fleury - major (boarding), game misconduct, 6:08
LA  Granato - tripping, 6:44
LA  Watters - interference, 8:19
CAL Yawney 1 (MacInnis, Reichel), 8:47
CAL MacInnis - roughing, 9:56
LA  Carson 2 (Sandstrom, Robitaille), 10:32 (pp)
LA  Hardy - holding, 11:38
CAL Skrudland - slashing, 16:17
CAL Stern - double roughing, cross-checking, 10 min. misconduct, 16:17
Overtime: none
Shots:
------
Los Angeles   8  9 14 - 31
Calgary       5  8 11 - 24
Power play conversions:
-----------------------
For:      2 of 10; for the year:  2 of  10,  20.00%
Against:  0 of  8; for the year:  8 of   8, 100.00%
Goalies:
--------
Los Angeles - Hrudey (1-0-0)
Calgary - Vernon (0-1-0)
Attendance: 18,605
Scratches:
----------
Rob Blake - back contusion
Guy Leveque - numbers
Lonnie Loach - numbers
Marc Potvin - numbers
Brandy Semchuk - numbers
Robb Stauber - numbers
Brent Thompson - numbers
Jim Thomson - numbers
Lines - Forwards:
----------------
*Robitaille - Gretzky - Sandstrom
Donnelly - Millen - Kurri
Rychel - Conacher - Taylor
Granato - Carson - Shuchuk
Lines - Defense:
----------------
*Huddy - Sydor
Watters - Zhitnik
Hardy - McSorley
* denotes starting lineup
Next game:
----------
Wednesday, April 21 @ Calgary Flames; 6:30pm Pacific Time on Prime Ticket
===============================================================================
Stan Willis (willis@empire.dnet.hac.com)
net contact: L.A. Kings
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
talk with the L.A. Kings Mailing List ...... kings@cs.stanford.edu
to subscribe or unsubscribe: ....... kings-request@cs.stanford.edu
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
================================================================================
From: smorris@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Morris )
Subject: Murray as GM  (was: Wings will win
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Lines: 37
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: venus.lerc.nasa.gov
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
In article <1993Apr19.204348.8254@sol.UVic.CA>, gballent@hudson.UVic.CA writes...
>
>In article 735249453@vela.acs.oakland.edu, ragraca@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Randy A. Graca) writes:
>
>>are predicting).  Although I think Bryan Murray is probably the best GM
>>I have ever seen in hockey
>
>How do you figure that??  When Bryan Murray took over the Wings they were
>a pretty good team that was contending for the Stanley Cup but looked
>unlikely to win it.  Now they are a pretty good team that is contending for
>the Stanley Cup but looks unlikely to win it.  A truly great GM would
>have been able to make the moves to push the team to the upper echelon
>of the NHL and maybe win the Stanley Cup.  A good GM (like Murray) can
I think Murray has done a great job.  He's picked up Ciccarelli,
Sheppard, Ysebaert, Howe, Coffey, and Riendeau (plus some depth players)
without giving up anything the Wings needed or any of his top prospects.
All of this in three years.  Has anyone done better?
The year before he took over, the Wings didn't even make the playoffs.
There was about a year and a half during Demers' stint that the Wings
did OK, but that was due to Demers' motavational skills and clutch
and grab style.  They didn't have much talent.
Gerald, Murray wasn't responsible for Primeau (although I'm not
ready to admit that's a horrible pick).  They hired him after the
draft (which has never made sense to me).  His first pick was
Lapointe.
Ron
**********
"And one of my major goals is to leave the next president a new set
of things to worry about.  I'm getting bored reading the same problems
in the paper, decade after decade.  I want people to have to deal
with new problems."
... President Bill Clinton   2-4-93
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Wings will win
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 24
In article <ragraca.735249453@vela.acs.oakland.edu> ragraca@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Randy A. Graca) writes:
>
>I also think that they will have a hard time with Pittsburgh if they
>face them in the finals (which is what all the Detroit sportswriters
>are predicting).  Although I think Bryan Murray is probably the best GM
>I have ever seen in hockey, I'm not as impressed with his abilities as
>a bench coach or in general as a motivator.  With the amount of talent he
>has on this team, he should have blown away everyone in the Norris.  There
>is not another team in the Norris, maybe even in the Campbell conference,
>that can hold a candle to Detroit on paper in terms of pure talent.  But,
>some guys have not been pulling their weight at times this year.  Scotty
>Bowman, on the other hand, who has won (I think, correct me if I'm wrong)
>nine (9) stanley cups, is an outstanding coach, and I think he could
>outcoach Murray if they faced each other.
>
Bryan Murray has done very little as GM...Yzerman, Fedorov, Cheveldae,
Chaisson, the whole Russian strategy was a product of the previous
GM...Murray has made a couple of decent trades...that's about it...
that would hardly rank him as the best GM.
Wasn't Primeau, Murray's first decision as GM...
Gerald
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: WC 93: Results, April 18
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 43
In article <1993Apr19.211406.22528@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com> spiegel@sgi413.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Spiegel) writes:
>	According to the SJ Murky News the Team USA roster is (names and
>	teams played for in 1992-93 listed):
>
>		Goalies
>		-------
........
>		Forwards
>		--------
>	Tony Amonte	New York Rangers
>	Ted Drury	Harvard Univ
>	Rob Gaudreau	San Jose' Sharks
>	Craig Johnson	Univ of Minnesota
>	Jeff Lazaro	Ottawa Senators
>	Mike Modano	Minnesota North Stars
>	Ed Olczyk	New York Rangers
>	Derek Plante	Univ of Minnesota-Duluth
>	Shion Podein	Edmonton Oilers
>	David Sacco	Boston University
>	Darren Turcotte New York Rangers
>	Doug Weight	Edmonton Oilers
>
It looks like the Edmonton Oilers just decided to take a European
vacation this spring...
Ranford, Tugnutt, Benning, Manson, Smith, Buchberger, and Corson
are playing for Canada.
Podein and Weight are playing for the US.
Is Kravchuk playing for the Russians...I know he had nagging
injuries late in the season.
Podein is an interesting case...because he was eligible to
play in Cape Breton in the AHL playoffs like Kovalev, Zubov,
and Andersson...obviously Sather and Pocklington are not
the total scrooges everyone makes them out to be...certainly
in this case they've massively outclassed Paramount and the
New York Rangers.
Gerald
From: John Michael Santore <jsbh+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: NHL Team Captains
Organization: Sophomore, Mathematics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 31
<1993Apr19.022113.12134@ann-arbor.applicon.slb.com>
<wfohu=K00WBM850Z5v@andrew.cmu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: po5.andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <wfohu=K00WBM850Z5v@andrew.cmu.edu>
>Michael Collingridge writes:
>
>>And, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been traded,
>>resigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any other
>>team captain trivia would be appreciated.
>
>Wasn't Ron Francis captain of the Whalers when he was traded to
>Pittsburgh?
>
>Mom.
Rick Tocchet was captain of the Flyers for several years before he was
traded to the Pens...
-John Santore
=============================================================================
____________________
/                    \                   "We break the surface tension
\_________     ____   \                   with our wild kinetic dreams"
/             /    \   \                        -Rush, Grand Designs
\_______     /  (*) )   )
/           / /\___/   /                 Go Philadelphia Flyers!
\_____     / /        /
/         /  \_______/                   John Santore (jsbh@andrew.cmu.edu)
\________/
Rush-Yes-King Crimson-Emerson, Lake and Palmer-Marillion-Genesis (w/ Gabriel)
=============================================================================
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: SHARKS:  Kingston Fired!!!
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Lines: 19
In article <1993Apr20.085337.27224@leland.Stanford.EDU> terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong) writes:
>I think that Jack Ferreira's firing eventually led to Kingston's
>firing.  You mention consistency of vision.  I think the
>Sharks lost that with the loss of Ferreira.  There has never
>been a 3 headed G.M. that has ever worked.  You need one
>person making the personnel decisions at the top, not
>management by committee.  The conventional wisdom
>from around the league is that Ferreira would have
>made the moves that would have fielded a better product
>on the ice.
How exactly would Ferreira accomplished this?  The three-headed GM-ship has
taken a lot of heat, but nobody's explained how things would have been any
different had Ferreira still been there.  Would Ferreira have made more
trades?  Who would have he had traded?  Would he have made fewer trades?
Who should not have been traded?
Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine)
Subject: Re: Wings will win
Nntp-Posting-Host: hudson.uvic.ca
Reply-To: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Lines: 67
In article 735307970@vela.acs.oakland.edu, ragraca@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Randy A. Graca) writes:
>gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine) writes:
>
>>In article 735249453@vela.acs.oakland.edu, ragraca@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Randy A. Graca) writes:
>
>>>I also think that they will have a hard time with Pittsburgh if they
>>>face them in the finals (which is what all the Detroit sportswriters
>>>are predicting).  Although I think Bryan Murray is probably the best GM
>>>I have ever seen in hockey
>
>>How do you figure that??  When Bryan Murray took over the Wings they were
>>a pretty good team that was contending for the Stanley Cup but looked
>>unlikely to win it.  Now they are a pretty good team that is contending for
>>the Stanley Cup but looks unlikely to win it.  A truly great GM would
>>have been able to make the moves to push the team to the upper echelon
>>of the NHL and maybe win the Stanley Cup.  A good GM (like Murray) can
>>maintain the team's success but can't push them to the next level.
>
>When Jacques Demers brought the Wings to the conference finals twice a
>few years back, he had everyone on the team giving 100 percent, but he
>had very little talent.  He had Yzerman, Bob Probert (who had drinking
>problems at the time), and a couple of decent goaltenders in Hanlon and
>Stefan who got hot.  That's about it.  Can you name one player on those
>earlier teams who even deserved to be in the all-star game, much less
>actually got there, other than Yzerman and Probert?  Like, Petr Klima?
>Give me a break!  When they faced Edmonton in both of those conference
>finals, as hard as they played, it was clear they faced a team that simply
>had superior talent to the Wings.  That's why they could not get to the
>finals.  Also, at that time the Norris division was still the weakest
>division in hockey, and getting past Chicago, and Toronto was not as
>impressive as it is today.
>
>Murray has brought scoring talent to the Wings that they did not have a
>few years ago when Devellano was GM and Demers was coach.  To name a few,
>Ysebaert, Kozlov, and Paul Coffey (who has made a definite positive impact on
>the power play especially).
>Murray has built one of the most talented teams in hockey at the present, with
>the possible exception of the Pittsburgh Penguins.  The Wings have at least
>five 30 goal scorers that I can think of, and a couple of defenseman with over
>100 games worth of playoff experience.  Murray's one failing is that unlike
>the other GM's you mentioned (who are definitely also good, don't get me
>wrong), he has not found for himself a strong coach to motivate the team to
>go out and give 100 percent for the full 60 minutes every night like they
>did the last time they made a cup run.  When a team wins or loses, it's a
>reflection of the GM *and* the coach, which was the point of my original
>post.  If the team outmatches their opponent in terms of talent but loses
>anyway (which has been the case this year when the Wings have struggled),
>that indicates that the GM has done his job in building up the team but the
>coach has failed to motivate them.  If, as in the case of the last run the
>Wings made in the playoffs before Murray came, they gave opponents a hard
>time who should have beaten them easily, that indicates good coaching making
>up for a lack of talent.
All of this is fine.  I never said that Murray was a bad GM.  I merely said
that he isn't the best GM in hockey- or even a contender for that honor.
If Murray is as great as you claim- the Wings would have won the Stanley Cup
by now- probably more than once.  If he was as great a GM as you claim
and he was as poor a coach as you claim- he would have been intelligent
enough to hire the coach to push the team to the next level of success.
But Murray is an average (unspectacular) NHL coach and a pretty good GM
so none of this is true anyway.
Gregmeister
From: Anna Matyas <am2x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ron Francis
Organization: H&SS Dean's Office, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 44
NNTP-Posting-Host: po2.andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <1993Apr19.170938.11226@Virginia.EDU>
Matthew Rush writes:
>Is there an award for "best back-up behind a hockey great"?
>Underneath all the hype about Lemieux, Stevens, Jagr, Ulf,
>etc., Ron Francis has quietly put together a 100 point season
>(24 goals and 76 assists in 84 games).  That was probably the
>best acquisition the Penguins have made since getting Lemieux
>(apologies to Rick Tocchet, who has had a hell of a year
>himself).  The Pens got just the right person at just the right
>time when they got Francis before the playoffs two years ago to
>back-up Mario.  Who was the second-line center before they got
>Francis?  I remember Randy Gilhen (who really plays tough, an
>ace in the face-off circle), but nobody with all the skills
>Francis has: scoring, passing, winning face-offs, and putting
>100% into every game, every night.  Just wanted to glow a
little.
I know what you mean!  I glow everytime Ronnie's out on the ice.
In fact, one of the neatest things about seeing the Pens in person
is that I can key in on him instead of watching what I'd probably
be seeing on tv.  He does so many subtle things behind the play.
He said in an interview recently that when he was a kid his dad
stressed the importance of playing two-way hockey; that you have to
learn how to play defense as well as offense and he obviously took
that advice to heart.  He was a breath of fresh air when he arrived
in Pittsburgh to the team whose forwards, for the most part, couldn't
and wouldn't play a lick of defense.
It's really difficult to assess what the key trades were that brought
all of this success to the Pens.  You mention Rick Tocchet and he has
certainly helped, and even ol' Kjell has been steady.  But looking at
this team you could almost take any one of them out of the line-up
permanently and replace them with an extremely mediocre player and it
wouldn't matter.
If I had to pick the top three acquisitions in recent years they would
be 1) Tom Barrasso; 2) Ron Francis; 3) Larry Murphy.  (I'd love to put
Francis first but I do think the only thing that could really damage
the Pens right now would be to lose Barrasso.)
Mom.
From: "James J. Murawski" <jjm+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Don Cherry - Coach's Corner summary - April 19, 1993
Organization: Administrative Computing & Info Services, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 29
NNTP-Posting-Host: po2.andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <allan.735284991@swanlake>
On 20-Apr-93 in Don Cherry - Coach's Corner..
user Allan Sullivan@cs.UAlber writes:
>Next, a clip was shown from an earlier episode, in which Don was
>proclaiming Doug Gilmour to be the best player, not only in
>the NHL, but in the world. What about players like Lemieux?
>Don said that Gilmour was the best PLAYER, not "Designated point getter".
>Its not like baseball, where you have a "designatted hitter" who
>can score runs but can't play defense. Gilmour is a good two way player.
This clip was shown on local news in Pittsburgh last night (KDKA), complete
with animated sarcasm by the sportscaster.  It's the second time Cherry
has been shown on local Pittsburgh news in the last couple of weeks.  Both
times he was blasting Lemieux.
====================================================================
Jim Murawski
Sr. Software Engineer               (412) 268-2650  [office]
Administrative Computing and        (412) 268-6868  [fax]
Information Services           jjm+@andrew.cmu.edu
Carnegie Mellon University          Office: UCC 155
4910 Forbes Avenue
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890
"Le Mieux!  Le Magnifique!  Soixante Six!  Claude...NON!"
There are 1371 days until Clinton (Clinocchio) leaves office (1370 too many).
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Don Cherry - Coach's Corner summary - April 19, 1993
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Lines: 18
In article <allan.735284991@swanlake> allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan) writes:
>Next, a clip was shown from an earlier episode, in which Don was
>proclaiming Doug Gilmour to be the best player, not only in
>the NHL, but in the world. What about players like Lemieux?
>Don said that Gilmour was the best PLAYER, not "Designated point getter".
>Its not like baseball, where you have a "designatted hitter" who
>can score runs but can't play defense. Gilmour is a good two way player.
What can you expect from a buffoon who said that the Pens should have
drafted Kirk Muller instead of Mario Lemieux?
Perhaps once upon a time Don Cherry had some insight into the game of
hockey, but he's really degenerated into a parody of himself.
Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra)
Subject: Re: Nords 3 - Habs 2 in O.T. We was robbed!!
Nntp-Posting-Host: stpl.ists.ca
Organization: Solar Terresterial Physics Laboratory, ISTS
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In article <18APR93.25909598.0086@VM1.MCGILL.CA> JBE5 <JBE5@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> writes:
>Aargh!
>
>Paul Stewart is the worst and most biased ref. presently in the NHL.
>He called a total of 4 penalties on the Habs and one on the Nordiques.
>The Nords' penalty came in O.T.  Stewart, being an ex-Nordique himself,
>was looking to call penalties on the Habs while letting the Nords
>get away with murder...WE WAS ROBBED!!!!
No.  Patrick Roy is the reason the game was lost, and Ron Hextall is the
reason Quebec won.  Everybody said it would come down to goaltending, that
goaltending was the key, etc etc.  Well, the key doesn't quite fit if you're
Montreal.  The Dionne penalty was kind of a cheesy call, but let's face it;
he literally left his feet to throw an elbow.  Blaming Stewart is just an
excuse to avoid facing the fact that Roy allowed what was one of the worst
goals he could possibly allow.  He even saw the whole shot, dammit.  Besides,
Stewart evened things up a bit by calling a Quebec penalty in OT.
Montreal played a solid game (although they still don't know how to clear
traffic in front of the net; the loss of Schneider will hurt even more).
Normally I would say that any team that blows a 2-goal lead with less than
five, let alone two, minutes to go in regulation time IN A PLAYOFF GAME
ESPECIALLY needs to be smacked upside their collective heads.  But I don't
think this was a team loss (although Keane should have been able to clear
the zone just prior to the first Quebec goal).  Roy is paid big money to
play.  He looked like a player in an industrial league on Sakic's shot.
Demers should start Racicot in the next game.  If not that, he should let
the damn team read the papers for the next day or two....and maybe this
article, if possible.
>Patrick Roy collapsed after letting in the tieing goal. He was shaky and
>on his knees for the rest of the night.  The winning goal shouldn't have
>gone in.
I didn't think the wrap-around was as bad as the second goal.  I also didn't
think Scott Young should have gotten around the defender (can't remember who)
in the first place.  But you are correct, it shouldn't have gone in
regardless.
>Oh well, at least the Bruins lost in O.T. also Ha, Ha!!--)
Yep.  Moog looked bad on Mogilny's goal with five seconds left in the second,
IMO.  How about Neely though?   Holy shit, what a player.
Speaking of great players, man-oh-man can Quebec skate.  I haven't seen a
team so potent on the rush in a long time.  Watching them break out of their
zone, especially Sundin, is a treat to watch.  They remind me of the Red
Army.
But I still hate the team.
On the rest of the games:  Didn't St. Louis' winning goal come on a
powerplay?  Penalties will cost Chicago dearly, especially against Detroit.
Same goes for Calgary; very, very undisciplined.  When Marty McSorely is
waving guys to the bench to *avoid* fights, you know something's up.  New
Jersey was overmatched, Terreri's heroics notwithstanding.  Mario is
unbelievable, and Jagr for some reason shows up in the playoffs.  But I
hate that team anyway.
dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (pissed-off Habs fan)
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra)
Subject: Re: Atlanta Hockey Hell!!
Nntp-Posting-Host: stpl.ists.ca
Organization: Solar Terresterial Physics Laboratory, ISTS
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In article <0foVj7i00WB4MIUmht@andrew.cmu.edu> Mamatha Devineni Ratnam <mr47+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>Well, it's not that bad. But I am still pretty pissed of at the
>local ABC coverage. They cut off the first half hour of coverage by playing
[stuff deleted]
Ok, here's the solution to your problem.  Move to Canada.  Yesterday I was able
to watch FOUR games...the NJ-PITT at 1:00 on ABC, LA-CAL at 3:00 (CBC),
BUFF-BOS at 7:00 (TSN and FOX), and MON-QUE at 7:30 (CBC).  I think that if
each series goes its max I could be watching hockey playoffs for 40-some odd
consecutive nights (I haven't counted so that's a pure guess).
I have two tv's in my house, and I set them up side-by-side to watch MON-QUE
and keep an eye on BOS-BUFF at the same time.  I did the same for the two
afternoon games.
Btw, those ABC commentaters were great!  I was quite impressed; they seemed
to know that their audience wasn't likely to be well-schooled in hockey lore
and they did an excellent job.  They were quite impartial also, IMO.
dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (not suffering from a shortage of hockey here)
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra)
Subject: Re: div. and conf. names
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In article <1993Apr19.003221.11964@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
[Evan Pritchard writes:]
>>	I think that you are incorrect, Roger.  Patrick,
>>Smythe and Adams all played or coached in the league before becoming
>>front office types.  Hence, they did help build the league, although
>>they were not great players themselves.
>
>Punch Imlach's contributions as a coach and GM were far greater than
>those of the above combined.  Should we name a division or trophy after
>him?  [owner vs. player contributions deleted...]
>Are we going to honour those who contributed to the league's evolution
>or are we going to honour those who contributed to the glory of the
>sport itself?
[stuff deleted...]
>The money issue is irrelevant to the point that we would agree on, and
>that is: "it is the players that are what make the game great and not the
>people who put them on the ice"
As I recall, the author of the _original_ article that started the thread
claimed that he disliked the changing of the names for a variety of reasons.
Roger, on one front you flamed him rather severely on the grounds that his
was a "jingoistic rant", but you also supported the name-changing on the
grounds that the current names are inappropriate because of the individuals
they represent. FWIW, I do not think the flaming was warranted, nor do I
think you enhanced what credibility you have with it at all.  Just an
observation...
However, that aside, the real question is whether you like the idea of
changing the names based on the reasons given for it (making it easier for
the 'casual fan'), or whether you like the idea of unique divisional names
based on individuals who do deserve the honour.  IMO, the latter is a nice
and unique touch that differs from other sports.  In addition, I do not
think that changing divisional names will have an effect on the number of
people that are interested in hockey, so it's a pointless exercise anyway.
If the current names are inappropriate, then that is a separate issue, not
central to the original article.  Something to consider additionally is
whether or not players like Orr who 'contributed to the glory of the sport'
would have been able to do so _without_ an organized professional league to
play in.  In this case, honouring builders of the _league_ as opposed to
builders of the _sport_ becomes a chicken-and-egg type question. (although
it was the chicken.....)
>Exactly true.  Naming divisions and trophies after Smythe and the bunch
>is the same kind of nepotism that put Stein in the hall of fame.  I have
>always thought that this was nonsense.
Dunno if the Stein comparison is justifiable, since it doesn't look as though
his 'unanimous acceptance' to the Hall will hold up.
--
dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra)
Subject: Re: hawks vs leafs lastnight
Nntp-Posting-Host: stpl.ists.ca
Organization: Solar Terresterial Physics Laboratory, ISTS
Distribution: na
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In article <1993Apr18.153820.10118@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>>on all replays, joe murphy's goal shouldn't have counted !
>>the game would have ended in 2-2 tie !
>I thought the red light went on...thus, in the review, the presumption
>would be to find conclusive evidence that the puck did not go in the
>net...from the replays I say, even from the rear, the evidence wasn't
>conclusive that the puck was in or out...in my opinion...
I was under the impression that the objective is to find conclusive
evidence that the puck _did_ cross the line.  And, the replays I saw showed
fairly conclusively that the puck did _not_ cross the goal line at any
time anyway.  Somebody screwed up.
dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca
From: e2s@icf.hrb.com (Eric M. Sebastian)
Subject: Re: Thumbs up to ESPN
Organization: HRB Systems, Inc.
Lines: 12
In article <1993Apr20.032017.5783@wuecl.wustl.edu>, jca2@cec1.wustl.edu (Joseph Charles Achkar) writes:
>
>  It was nice to see ESPN show game 1 between the Wings and Leafs since
> the Cubs and Astros got rained out. Instead of showing another baseball
> game, they decided on the Stanley Cup Playoffs. A classy move by ESPN.
>
It was good to see the Wings play, but lets not give ESPN too much credit.
There weren't any other late baseball games on so they didn't have another
option.
Eric Sebastian
Go Pens...
From: smorris@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Morris )
Subject: Re: Wings take game one
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Lines: 25
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: venus.lerc.nasa.gov
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
In  <1qvos8$r78@cl.msu.>, vergolin@euler.lbs.msu.edu (David Vergolini) writes...
>  The Detroit Red Wings put a lot of doubter on ice tonight with a 6 - 3
>washing of the Toronto Maple Leafs.  All you Toronto fans have now seen the
>power of the mighty Red Wing offense.  Toronto's defense in no match for the
>Wing offense.  As for the defense, Probert, Kennedey and Primeau came out
>hitting hard.  Toronto players were being thrown left and right.  Not even
>Wendell Clark was tough enough for the Wings tough guys.  The Wings only gave
>up three goals, a low total for what they say is a mediocre defense.
>  All you Leaf fans better speak up now.  You team will probable have its
>season ended soon.  Wings fans, keep up the support.
There's quite a few Wings fans lurking about here, they just tend
to be low key and thoughtful rather than woofers.  I suppose every
family must have a Roger Clinton, though.  But remember (to paraphrase
one of my favorite Star Trek lines), "if we adopt the ways of the Leaf
fans, we are as bad as the Leaf fans".
Ron
**********
"And one of my major goals is to leave the next president a new set
of things to worry about.  I'm getting bored reading the same problems
in the paper, decade after decade.  I want people to have to deal
with new problems."
... President Bill Clinton   2-4-93
From: ragraca@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Randy A. Graca)
Subject: Re: Wings will win
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, Michigan, U.S.A.
Lines: 29
NNTP-Posting-Host: vela.acs.oakland.edu
golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>Bryan Murray has done very little as GM...Yzerman, Fedorov, Cheveldae,
>Chaisson, the whole Russian strategy was a product of the previous
>GM...Murray has made a couple of decent trades...that's about it...
>that would hardly rank him as the best GM.
>Wasn't Primeau, Murray's first decision as GM...
>Gerald
There are many teams in the NHL who have taken a liking to Russian players.
The "whole Russian strategy" is not specific to Detroit or to Devellano,
who was GM before Murray.  What the previous GM also did was to trade
away several players who have gone on to do well with other teams, most
notably (in my memory) Murray Craven, who had a few very good years with
Philly after leaving here.  Also, it's not the volume of trades that will
necessarily improve a team, but the quality of them.  Trading Adam Oates
for Bernie Federko was just plain stupid, even if Federko used to be a
great player at one time.  Most of Murray's trades have worked significantly
to the Wings' advantage, with those that didn't being soured mainly by
injury to the players involved (such as Troy Crowder, who suffered back
problems from which he never really recovered).
Put Scotty Bowman, Pat Burns, or any of the other better coaches in the
league behind the bench of this Detroit team, and they could beat anybody.
--Randy
From: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson)
Subject: Re: ABC coverage
Reply-To: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson)
Organization: University of Rochester Hockey Science Dept.
Distribution: usa
In article <cfoy0MW00Uh_41JndV@andrew.cmu.edu> Anna Matyas <am2x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Thorne is good and I've always been a fan of Clement (but I miss
>Mike Emrick!).  My boyfriend, who is not a hockey fan, even looked up
>at one point and said, "These guys are pretty good announcers."  (This
>is the same guy who said that Rick Tocchet looks like Charles Bronson...:)
Did your boyfriend comment on the fact that Clement looks like a
walking ad for Brillo pad hair replacement therapy? The guy's just a
stuffed shirt who thinks he's the greatest hockey analyst since Howie
Meeker (for gosh sakes). I'll take Schoenie any day.
George
--
George Ferguson                 ARPA: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu
Dept. of Computer Science       UUCP: rutgers!rochester!ferguson
University of Rochester         VOX:  (716) 275-2527
Rochester  NY  14627-0226       FAX:  (716) 461-2018
From: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson)
Subject: Re: Thumbs up to ESPN
Reply-To: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson)
Organization: University of Rochester Hockey Science Dept.
In article <1993Apr20.032017.5783@wuecl.wustl.edu> jca2@cec1.wustl.edu (Joseph Charles Achkar) writes:
> It was nice to see ESPN show game 1 between the Wings and Leafs since
>the Cubs and Astros got rained out. Instead of showing another baseball
>game, they decided on the Stanley Cup Playoffs. A classy move by ESPN.
They tried their best not to show it, believe me. I'm surprised they
couldn't find a sprint car race (mini cars through pigpens, indeed!)
on short notice.
George
--
George Ferguson                 ARPA: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu
Dept. of Computer Science       UUCP: rutgers!rochester!ferguson
University of Rochester         VOX:  (716) 275-2527
Rochester  NY  14627-0226       FAX:  (716) 461-2018
From: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson)
Subject: Re: ABC coverage
Reply-To: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu (George Ferguson)
Organization: University of Rochester Hockey Science Dept.
Distribution: usa
In article <9454@blue.cis.pitt.edu> ccohen@pitt.edu (Caleb N Cohen) writes:
>   Boy - everyone has been ripping on ESPN's hockey coverage (or is it just
>Pittsburgher's who are thrilled with Lange & Steigy?)  For all of you
>who are unaware -> ESPN bought the air time from ABC and did all the
>production, advertising sales, commentating, etc -> and even
>reaped any $ made...
In the interests of saving badnwidth during this "heated" time of the
year (viz. the early flurry of "retard" comments coming from a certain
state whose name starts with P and ends with A), why don't you tell us
something we don't already know?
George
--
George Ferguson                 ARPA: ferguson@cs.rochester.edu
Dept. of Computer Science       UUCP: rutgers!rochester!ferguson
University of Rochester         VOX:  (716) 275-2527
Rochester  NY  14627-0226       FAX:  (716) 461-2018
From: r_turgeo@oz.plymouth.edu (Randy S. Turgeon)
Subject: Re: Thumbs up to ESPN
Keywords: ESPN, Detroit, Toronto, Hockey Coverage
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, NH.
Lines: 29
In article <1993Apr20.032017.5783@wuecl.wustl.edu> jca2@cec1.wustl.edu (Joseph Charles Achkar) writes:
>
> It was nice to see ESPN show game 1 between the Wings and Leafs since
>the Cubs and Astros got rained out. Instead of showing another baseball
>game, they decided on the Stanley Cup Playoffs. A classy move by ESPN.
>
The only reason ESPN showed that hockey came was because there was no
other baseball game scheduled for the evening.
Randy
r_turgeo@oz.plymouth.edu
>
>  %*%*%*%**%*%%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*
>  *   __  ______________         ____________________________________    %
>  %   \ \_)____________/         A L L E Z   L E S   B L U E S  ! ! !    *
>  *    \    __________/          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    %
>  %     \    ________/                                                   *
>  *      \   _______/                  Joe Ashkar                        %
>  %       \  \                         Contact for the Blues             *
>  *        \  \  SAINT LOUIS           jca2@cec1.wustl.edu               %
>  %        (___)             BLUES                                       *
>  *%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: ABC coverage
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Distribution: usa
Lines: 24
ccohen@pitt.edu (Caleb N Cohen) writes:
>
>   Boy - everyone has been ripping on ESPN's hockey coverage (or is it
>just Pittsburgher's who are thrilled with Lange & Steigy?)  For all of
>you who are unaware -> ESPN bought the air time from ABC and did all
>the production, advertising sales, commentating, etc -> and even
>reaped any $ made...
No, Caleb, it's not the quality of ESPN that I have a problem with;
it is superb, whereas it did not evolve beyond the point where ESPN
left off when hockey went to SC (this is excepting SC's use of feeds
from CBC (-;).  It's the amount of hockey they're showing, or lack
of it, that we're complaining about.  They had rights to two OT's
that could've been shown on Sunday night after baseball ... and
they had pickup trucks racing through oversized pigpens followed
by Super-8 home movies of old car races (yes, I was checking in
desperation for Canucks-Jets) last night after SportsCenter.
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: dvb@ick (David Van Beveren)
Subject: Re: NHL Team Captains
Organization: Sunsoft Inc., Los Angeles, CA.
Lines: 16
NNTP-Posting-Host: ick
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
colling@ann-arbor.applicon.slb.com (Michael Collingridge) writes:
:
: And, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been traded,
: resigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any other
: team captain trivia would be appreciated.
:
Luc Robitaille was captain of the Kings the first third of the season,
until The Great One came back from his disc injury. It was kind of
awkward, but Melrose appointed (anointed?) TGO as captain immediately upon
his return, after which he did not score a goal for something like 10
games.
I think Luc should have remained Captain all season.
dvb
From: joe13+@pitt.edu (Joseph B Stiehm)
Subject: Re: ABC coverage
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Lines: 30
In article <cfoy0MW00Uh_41JndV@andrew.cmu.edu> am2x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anna Matyas) writes:
>
>I was skeptical before the game but was pleasantly surprised at the
>coverage.  I was particularly impressed by the close range camera coverage
>of work in the corners and behind the play without losing a beat getting
>back to the puck.
>
>Thorne is good and I've always been a fan of Clement (but I miss
>Mike Emrick!).  My boyfriend, who is not a hockey fan, even looked up
>at one point and said, "These guys are pretty good announcers."  (This
>is the same guy who said that Rick Tocchet looks like Charles Bronson...:)
>
>Mom.
I have one complaint for the cameramen doing the Jersey-Pitt series:  Show
the shots, not the hits.  On more than one occassion the camera zoomed in
on a check along the boards while the puck was in the slot.  They panned
back to show the rebound.  Maybe Mom's camera people were a little more
experienced.
Joseph Stiehm
From: gp2011@andy.bgsu.edu (George Pavlic)
Subject: Re: Ron Francis
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Lines: 10
Not to mention, Mr. Francis is an incredibly nice person.  Over Christmas
break, a friend of mine had a little Xmas gathering.  The two of us drove
to Ron's house.  While I stayed in the car out of shyness, my friend went
to the door and rang the bell.  Ron answered and my friend introduced
himself.  He then proceeded to invite Francis to the party.  Ron declined
because he "had to watch his daughter."  He then reached out and shook my
friend's hand!  I know this isn't r.s.b., but I don't think Barry Bonds
would be this polite in this situation.
George
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: SHARKS REVIEW Part 5: Left Wings
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Lines: 161
Apparently, Part 2 (defensemen numbered 2 through 19) was lost when I posted
it; to make things worse, I lost my own copy.  I have asked on the Sharks
mailing list, on which it did get out, to see if someone can mail me a copy
back.  If someone responds, I will repost it when I get it; otherwise, I will
re-write it in a day or two and post it.  Sorry about that.
#8	LARRY DEPALMA		Season:	3rd
Acquired:	'91-92, free agent from Minnesota
Grade:		I (C-/D+)
No netter/fan watching the Sharks, including me, knows where DePalma was at
the end of the season; the Sharks appeared to still have his rights, but he
wasn't in San Jose, he wasn't in Kansas City, and his name hasn't appeared on
the waiver wire.  And that kind of invisibility was prevalent for the most part
for DePalma.  After being called up October 30 against the Tampa Bay Lightning,
DePalma had an excellent week, scoring 5 points in 3 games while playing good
defense.  Unfortunately, the 27-year-old DePalma then disappeared the rest of
the way, getting just 3 more points in 15 more games, and generally looked
lethargic and uninterested on both ends of the ice.  He then was sent down to
Kansas City, walked out from there, and was suspended and later reinstated
when it was revealed that he was injured; he then promptly disappeared from
the watching eyes of Shark Bytes (as the mailing list is now known to Sharks
officials) faithful, and neither the Sharks nor we miss him.
#10	JOHAN GARPENLOV		Season: 3rd
Acquired:	'91-92, trade with Detroit for D Bob McGill and 8th round
pick in '92 entry draft from Vancouver
Grade:		A/A-
After an early slump, Garpenlov was nothing short of inspirational the rest
of the way, finishing with 66 points in 79 games, second highest total on the
team, as he clicked well with team MVP Kelly Kisio and right wing Rob
Gaudreau.  Kisio got most of the credit, but Garpenlov, finishing second in
the MVP voting, clearly demonstrated his playmaking and scoring skills, as he
was seen making excellent centering passes as well as finishing passes to him
by putting the puck past opposing goaltenders, getting a club-high 14 power-
play goals.  Contrary to his previous rep, Garpenlov also showed that despite
his small size (5' 11", 183 lbs.), he was willing to throw himself around
when necessary, albeit not very successful yet.  He also still needs to work
on his defense, although he improved tremendously throughout the season, and
was actually quite a good penalty killer by the end of the season.  He will
be a major key to the offense next year.
#15	DAVID BRUCE		Season: 5th
Acquired:	'91-92, from St. Louis in expansion draft
Grade:		I (?)
After a banner '91-92, when he led the team in power-play goals (10) and
was third in total scoring (38 points in 60 games), Bruce was bothered
virtually all of this season with a groin injury, which kept him out of the
lineup for all by 17 games this season.  Of course, it is difficult to
speculate how well he would have done this season had he not been affected by
the injury, but the 28-year-old Bruce was effective with a man up or a man
short in the Sharks' first season, and was expected to be a strong offensive
leader this season as well.  The injury appears serious, which is a shame,
because otherwise he may have a much brighter future for now; instead, his
future with the Sharks next season appears clouded.
#18	MARK PEDERSON		Season:	3rd
Acquired:	'92-93, trade with Philadelphia for C/LW Dave Snuggerud
Grade:		I (B)
It is difficult for me to understand the Flyers' decision to unload Pederson,
after a very good offensive season last season (40 points in 58 games), but
after riding the pine early in the season, Pederson was summarily sent to the
Sharks in exchange of the defensive-minded Snuggerud, and he finished with
41 games combined with the Flyers and the Sharks.  He was also limited by
injuries this season, and this limited his production (17 points).  But when
healthy, Pederson appears impressive, with a good scoring touch, good size
(and the willingness to throw it around, although he's not considered a
physical forward), and good speed.  He also does not appear to be a liability
on defense, but the Sharks probably have to wait until next season to see how
much, exactly, Pederson can do.
#20	JOHN CARTER		Season: 4th
Acquired:	'91-92, free agent from Boston
Grade:		I (B+/B)
Carter was definitely one of the hardest workers on the team, and the hard
work worked wonders, as at times he looked great on ice.  However, although he
did look great at times, the fact that he received just 16 points (in 55
games) for his efforts is a sign that there is only so much his hard work can
do, and the Sharks confirmed that by sending him to Kansas City with about
20 games left in the season.  Carter, who will turn 30 on May 6, always
hussled, but as a result, was sometimes trapped too deep within the offensive
zone while forechecking, but he was generally a credit on the defensive end,
but he is probably of limited utility in that capacity, and he did not impress
offensively, although he was one of the best Sharks at drawing penalties.  He
is very unlikely to be back next season.
#28	JEAN-FRANCOIS QUINTIN	Season: 1st
Acquired:	'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft
Grade:		I (B+/B)
I don't understand why the Sharks didn't let Quintin play any more than the
14 games he played this season.  He was generally hard-working and creating
opportunities offensively, and appeared, at age 23, ready for regular NHL
duty, at least for a team like the Sharks, finishing with 7 points in those
14 games while not being a defensive liability.  Shoulder injury in training
camp before the '91-92 season limited Quintin, the team's leading scorer in
exhibition games despite sitting out the final two, to just 29 games with the
Sharks and the Blades that season, but he looked impressive.  He should be a
solid contender for regular duty next season.
#41	MARK BEAUFAIT		Season: 1st
Acquired:	2nd round pick in 1991 supplemental draft
Grade:		I (?)
After a all-star season at Kansas City, Beaufait got a cup of coffey with the
Sharks late in the season when the Blades knocked down a playoff spot and the
Sharks decimated with injuries, playing 5 games and scoring a goal for his only
NHL point thus far.  Despite small size (5' 9", 165 lbs.), Beaufait was not shy
to throw himself around when necessary, and looked pretty good at times,
although it's too early to judge him based on 5 NHL games, in which he played
mostly left wing, away from his center position at Northern Michigan and
Kansas City.
#42	JAROSLAV OTEVREL	Season: 1st
Acquired:	8th round pick in 1991 entry draft
Grade:		I (?)
Like Beaufait, Otevrel also played away from his normal position when he was
up for his cup of tea (7 games) midway through the season.  He was generally
very much of a defensive liability, and did not show much offensively either,
although that may be more indicative of the lack of ice time he got in those
7 games.  He may need another season to work on his defense, but once his
defense is acceptable, he should be ready.
#44	MICHEL PICARD		Season: 1st
Acquired:	'92-93, trade with Hartford for LW Yvon Corriveau
Grade:		I (B-/C+)
The 23-year-old Picard, although he perennially tore up the minors, seems to
be close to being out of chances, for some reason, after being acquired by the
Sharks but failing to impress the management in 25 games, scoring 4 goals for
his only points, and he spent most of the rest of the way in Kansas City.
He was not particularly strong defensively, and despite his offensive
brilliance in the minors, he has failed thus far to score in the NHL, although
he has been given limited opportunities.  He may be the Sharks' bait in the
expansion draft.
#45	DODY WOOD		Season: 1st
Acquired:	3rd round pick in 1991 entry draft
Grade:		I (D+/D, although perhaps I shouldn't give a grade at all)
I have been accused of knocking on Wood too much. :-)  Then, it is probably
no surprise to you that I am thoroughly unimpressed by Wood thus far, although
13 games is a small example.  He was generally a nonfactor on offense, was
not particularly good defensively, and took too many silly penalties, losing
many fights in the process and gathering 69 penalty minutes in those 13 games,
projecting to to 446(!) in an 84-game season.  He's not ready, and needs at
least another season at KC, where he can work on his fighting skills, if
nothing else.  His relatively small size (5' 11", 181 lbs.) does not give much
possibility that he can survive, at this stage, as an enforcer.
===============================================================================
GO CALGARY FLAMES!  Al MacInnis for Norris!  Gary Roberts for Hart and Smythe!
GO EDMONTON OILERS!  Go for playoffs next year!  Stay in Edmonton!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
rec.sport.hockey contact for the San Jose Sharks
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: SHARKS REVIEW Part 2: Defensemen (2-19)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Lines: 92
I finally got it back, with great thanks to Mark Spiegel for saving and sending
it.
#2	ROB ZETTLER		Season:	4th
Acquired:	'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft
Grade:		C/C-
Zettler gave the Sharks every bit he's got this year; unfortunately, this still
wasn't enough to make him any more than a marginal NHLer, if that.  He works
hard, for sure, but is no better than average on defense, and is prone to
costly penalties and defensive lapses at times, while being basically an
offensive zero (0 goal and 7 assists in 79 games).  He would be hardpressed
to make the team next year.
#3	DAVID WILLIAMS		Season: 2nd
Acquired:	'91-92, free agent from New Jersey
Grade:		C/C-
IMO, Williams was the most valuable defenseman for the Sharks in '91-92,
playing a combination of good offense (3 goals and 25 assists in 56 games) and
good defense.  But he, playing the first part of this season in Kansas City,
was good neither offensively nor defensively this year; it, then, appears that
'91-92 was a fluke.  Although he improved towards the end of the season, he
was prone to being out of position defensively, and did not demonstrate the
playmaking skills that made him the team's leading scorer among defensemen last
year.  He would also be hardpressed to make the team next year.
#4	JAYSON MORE		Season: 2nd
Acquired:	'91-92, from Montreal in expansion draft
Grade:		B+
After being touted as the team's top defensive prospects in training camp
before '91-92, More had a rather disappointing '91-92, as he was not
particularly good defensively, and had just 17 points in 46 games.  He, then,
proceeded to improve his game massively this season, becoming the team's most
reliable defenseman, whom the team can count on night in and night out to play
steady defense and providing occasional (but only occasional) offensive flash.
Offensively, he was even more disappointing than last year (11 points in 73
games), but his defense improved tremendously.  He is probably best as the
defensive part of a defense combination with an offensive defenseman.
#5	NEIL WILKINSON		Season: 4th
Acquired:	'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft
Grade:		B-
Wilkinson was probably the team's top defensive defenseman in '91-92.  However,
partially because of injuries, he was not the same this year, as he missed 25
games total due to nagging knee and back injuries, and seemed to be slowed
even when playing.  He, then, had often to be saved by his defensive partners;
that is, if they are there at all.  But he also had some solid games, and if
he can be complete healthy, he can still be a force.
#6	SANDIS OZOLINSH		Season: 1st
Acquired:	'91-92, 2nd round pick in entry draft
Grade:		I (A)
At the time of his injury (December 30, against the Philadelphia Flyers),
Ozolinsh was well on track to be, IMO, the team's MVP.  A serious knee injury
in that game, though, forced him to miss the rest of the season (47 games),
but he still finished as the team's top scorer among defensemen (23 points),
which, of course, tells more about the lack of offense the Sharks had from
their defensemen, but it also tells of Ozolinsh's abilities.  At the time, he
was playing very good defense along with excellent offense; he was still
susceptible to so-called "rookie mistakes," but was probably the defenseman who
made the least of them on the team, rookie or veteran.  If he can come back
from his injuries, he is ready to be a star.
#19	DOUG ZMOLEK		Season: 1st
Acquired:	'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft
Grade:		B
Zmolek had basically a solid and durable year, being one of the only two Sharks
to play in all 84 games of the season.  He was solid on defense, but
after being billed as an offensive defenseman, he didn't show it (15 points).
He was also prone to penalties, and his 229 penalty minutes was second on the
team; however, that was also an indication that he was fearly when facing tough
physical opponents, and he was at his best when playing physically.  But to
become a fixture in this league, he needs to improve both offensively and
defensively, and cut down on the number of power-plays he gives to opponents.
===============================================================================
GO CALGARY FLAMES!  Al MacInnis for Norris!  Gary Roberts for Hart and Smythe!
GO EDMONTON OILERS!  Go for playoffs next year!  Stay in Edmonton!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
rec.sport.hockey contact for the San Jose Sharks
From: adavis@mcl.bdm.com (Arthur Davis)
Subject: Re: Ron Francis
Organization: BDM International, Inc.
Lines: 17
NNTP-Posting-Host: jupiter.mcl.bdm.com
In article <1993Apr19.171223.11311@Virginia.EDU> mjr4u@Virginia.EDU ("Matthew J. Rush") writes:
> I forgot to ask: Is this the highest points total Francis has
>had in a season?  Has he ever had a 100 point season before,
>either with the Pens or the Whalers?
>
Francis got 101 in 89-90, his last full season with Hartford.
In agreement with your previous post, I think Francis is a tremendous and
generally underrated complete player.  I would LOVE to have him here in a
Capitals uniform where he would certainly be the #1 center (even though
Pivonka is also a very good complete player who is generally underrated).
Francis impresses me in many ways as an "ethical Dale Hunter".  Tons of
heart and can-do attitude with a lot of different skills, but none of
the cheap shots and few penalty minutes.  Not to mention nearly always
coming through when it's important.
From: MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF)
Subject: Re: expanding to Europe:Dusseldorf
In-Reply-To: voecking@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE's message of Fri, 16 Apr 1993 07:37:16 GMT
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24
Lines: 36
In <1993Apr16.073716.16514@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE> voecking@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE writes:
>
> In article <1993Apr15.192231.27574@abo.fi>, MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF) writes:
> |> In <PKORTELA.93Apr15164732@lk-hp-17.hut.fi> pkortela@snakemail.hut.fi writes:
> |>
> |> >
> |> > DEG has many german-born forwards in the team. In fact the majority of players
> |> > are german-born. 1992-93 DEG had 11150 average in 11800 spectator arena.
> |>
> |> Interesting! One of our German friends here (Robert?) told me their forwards
> |> were all Canadian-Germans. Perhaps somebody can sort this out for us?
>
> As far as I know Dusseldorf has only one Canadian-German forward (i.e. a  player
> who was born in Canada but now has a German passport).
> Benoit Doucet became german by marriing a german and he is going to play
> for Germany in the WC.
>
> The other Canada-born forwards are:
> 	Peter-John Lee (has British passport)
> 	Chris Valentine
> 	Dale Dercatch
> 	Steve Gootas
>  	Earl Spry (?)
>
> At the moment there are only three German-born forwards coming into my mind:
> 	Bernd Trunschka, Andreas Brockmann, Ernst Koepf
Hm, do you think Dusseldorf fans would like it if their team joined the NHL?
Or do we have to include Koln as well (Cologne to you Anglophiles) to make
them happy?:-)
> Volker
MARCU$
>
From: kerryy@bnr.ca (Kerry Yackoboski)
Subject: Re: Goalie masks
Reply-To: kerryy@bnr.ca
Organization: BNR Ottawa
Lines: 10
In article <1993Apr15.184750.12889@ac.dal.ca>, brifre1@ac.dal.ca writes:
|> I saw a mask once that had drawings of band-aids, presumably for every puck
|> that goalie stopped with his face/head.  I can't remember who it was or even
|> if it was NHL (I see quite a few AHL games here).
Gerry Cheevers used to have a mask that had stitches painted all over
it.
Ken Dryden's mask is a classic - an archetype of our time.
From: wangr@rs6410.ecs.rpi.edu ( Isles' Fan!! )
Subject: Islanders sux!!!!
Nntp-Posting-Host: rs6410.ecs.rpi.edu
Reply-To: wangr@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Lines: 2
Need I say more???????
From: lmcdapi@noah.ericsson.se (Daniel Piche)
Subject: Re: NHL Team Captains
Reply-To: lmcdapi@noah.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Communication Inc.
Lines: 31
Nntp-Posting-Host: bison.lmc.ericsson.se
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.
In article K00WBM850Z5v@andrew.cmu.edu, am2x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anna Matyas) writes:
>
>Michael Collingridge writes:
>
>>And, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been traded,
>>resigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any other
>>team captain trivia would be appreciated.
>
>Wasn't Ron Francis captain of the Whalers when he was traded to
>Pittsburgh?
>
>Mom.
Chris Chelios was Montreal's co-captain with Guy Carbonneau when he was traded to Chicago for Denis Savard, and Peter Stastny was captain of the Quebec Nordiques when he was traded to New-Jersey. Also Mark Messier was captain of the Edmonton Oilers when he was traded to New-York. How about Dale Hawerchuk with Winnipeg when he was traded to Buffalo, was he captain too ? I think so. I should not forget Wayne (you know who) when he was traded to L.A. he was captain. Didn't they strip Wendel Clark of his capta
incy in Toronto ?
Just some updates and thoughts.
Cheer...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Piche (LMC/U/DET - Design)
Ericsson Communications Inc.
8400 Decarie Blvd, 1rd floor
Town of Mont Royal, Quebec. H4P 2N2
(514)-738-8300 ext. 2178.
E-mail: LMCDAPI@LMC.ERICSSON.SE
MEMOid: LMC.LMCDAPI
CHEERS.....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: au021@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Roland Behunin)
Subject: Does anybody have the schedule for games Sunday 25 Apr 93
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu
Hello Hockey fans.
Bonjour tout le monde!
Well, in Salt Lake City this past Sunday, the local ABC station decided not
to televise the hockey games.  La directrous de programme est la tete de merde!
Anyway, I have a satellite dish, and a few of my friends from hockey have invited themselves over to watch the games this coming Sunday (25 Apr), and I can
not find correct game times.  For the Calgary at LA game I have times showing
everything from 11:00 AM MDT, to 5:00 PM MDT.
I am not even sure what games are going to be played this coming Sunday, now
that ABC has mucked up the schedule.  I think I should be able to
pull in
three games (11:00 am, 2:00 pm, and 5:30 pm MDT) off the dish, but I am
not sure.
IF anybody has a schedule, pleas emial it to me.  As you can see, I have to
telent to get rec.sport.hockey, and it is sometimes difficult to get a link.
Thanks in advance
Merci d'avance
P.S.  Anglais ou francais d'accord.
Roland Behunin
behunin@oodis01.af.mil
behunin@oodis01.hill.af.mil
--
Roland
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Wings take game one
Keywords: The Detroit Red Wings - 6 ; The Toronto Maple Leafs - 3
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 28
In article <1993Apr20.032350.18885@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>In <1qvos8$r78@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> vergolin@euler.lbs.msu.edu (David Vergolini) writes:
>
>>  The Detroit Red Wings put a lot of doubter on ice tonight with a 6 - 3
>>washing of the Toronto Maple Leafs.  All you Toronto fans have now seen the
>>power of the mighty Red Wing offense.  Toronto's defense in no match for the
>>Wing offense.  As for the defense, Probert, Kennedey and Primeau came out
>
>Did they move Probert back to defense?  Why did I see him parking his ass
>in front of Potvin all night?  Somebody is going to have to discipline
>Probert if the Leafs want to win the series.  Perhaps a fresh Clark should
>hit the ice at the end of a long Probert shift and straigten him out for
>a while...
>
During the regular season, when the intensity is down, not many teams
have forwards who will continually go and park themselves in front of
the opposing teams net...and the inadequacy of the Leafs defense in
this regard thus didn't matter...however, the playoffs are a different
story...every good team is going to have players who are going to
become potted plants in front of Potvin...and the Leafs relatively
unphysical defensive core will finally be exposed as weak an inept.
Hard work will go a long way during the regular season...almost
to 100 points...and the Leafs deserve credit for that...but in the
playoffs talent matters, because everyone begins working hard.
Gerald
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Don Cherry - Coach's Corner summary - April 19, 1993
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 24
In article <Yfoz1lm00WBOQ13hYq@andrew.cmu.edu> "James J. Murawski" <jjm+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>On 20-Apr-93 in Don Cherry - Coach's Corner..
>user Allan Sullivan@cs.UAlber writes:
>>Next, a clip was shown from an earlier episode, in which Don was
>>proclaiming Doug Gilmour to be the best player, not only in
>>the NHL, but in the world. What about players like Lemieux?
>>Don said that Gilmour was the best PLAYER, not "Designated point getter".
>>Its not like baseball, where you have a "designatted hitter" who
>>can score runs but can't play defense. Gilmour is a good two way player.
>
>This clip was shown on local news in Pittsburgh last night (KDKA), complete
>with animated sarcasm by the sportscaster.  It's the second time Cherry
>has been shown on local Pittsburgh news in the last couple of weeks.  Both
>times he was blasting Lemieux.
>
His designated point-getter remarks were not only meant for Lemieux,
but for Gretzky, Bure, etc. etc. .... and he made those particular
remarks last December before Lemieux was diagnosed with Hodgkin's,
and as the Leafs started their second half roll, and before
Gilmour's great season was being recognized by many people.
Gerald
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: ABC coverage
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Distribution: usa
Lines: 24
In article <cfoy0MW00Uh_41JndV@andrew.cmu.edu> Anna Matyas <am2x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>Thorne is good and I've always been a fan of Clement (but I miss
>Mike Emrick!).  My boyfriend, who is not a hockey fan, even looked up
>at one point and said, "These guys are pretty good announcers."  (This
>is the same guy who said that Rick Tocchet looks like Charles Bronson...:)
>
IMHO...
Clement, although he has a pleasant personality (aggravatingly pleasant
in my opinion), is a terrible
analyst, because he is almost alway wrong...the prototypical example
being New Jersey's first goal last Sunday.
I grew up with Dick Irvin doing color beside Danny Gallivan...I knew
did Irvin, Dick Irvin was a friend of mine...Bill Clement you aren't
any Dick Irvin.
As long as the teams involved do not include the US national team or
the New York Rangers, I'd take John Davidson over Bill Clement any
day.
Gerald
From: gp2011@andy.bgsu.edu (George Pavlic)
Subject: Re: Pens playoff radio coverage (was:Re: Radio stations)
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Lines: 42
In article <C5sFJv.FA1.1@cs.cmu.edu>, lli+@cs.cmu.edu (Lori Iannamico)
wrote:
> According to this morning's Post-Gazette:
>
> The Pens will be carried by KDKA-Radio(1020 am), unless the Pirates
> are playing.  When the Pirates play, the games will be carried by
> WDVE(102.5 fm).  WDVE will carry 12 games, starting with tonight's
> game.
>
> In fact, after this season, KDKA will no longer be the flagship
> station for the Pens.  The Penguins and KBL have struck a new
> deal regarding the TV and radio rights to the games.  It seems
> more than likely that WDVE will be the flagship radio station next
> season.  KBL will carry 62 games on tv,  with 17 of the games to be
> simulcast on KDKA-TV.  The remaining 22 games, as well as some of the
> early round playoff games, will be available by "subscription tv" only.
> To receive the games, you'll have to pay a one time hook up fee, and
> then a monthly fee of $11-12 dollars.
>
> Also, under the new deal, there will no longer be radio/tv
> simulcasts.  There will be a TV broadcast team, and a radio
> broadcast team.
>
> No word on who the announcers will be.  Mike Lange and Paul Steigerwald
> are both under contract with KDKA, but their contracts expire at the
> end of this season.  KBL President Bill Craig said he'd like to hire
> Lange and Steigerwald.
>
> Lori
> Contact for the Penguins
> lli+@cs.cmu.edu
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!  Who's the mindscheme(?) behind this one -- Ted
Simmons?  As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."  I'm 230
miles from home (during the school year) and will never be able to pick up
DVE.  At least now I can sort of make out what Mike and Steigy say through
all the static on KDKA.  This just may be enough reason for me to transfer
to Duquesne and live at home.  Who's going to announce on DVE anyway?
Paulson and Krenn?  (Just kidding.)
George
From: jake@rambler.Eng.Sun.COM (Jason Cockroft)
Subject: If You Were Pat Burns ...
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 57
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jake@rambler.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: rambler.eng.sun.com
Keywords: Leaf Wings
What are the Leafs to do?  I am a Leaf supporter and
I say the Leafs are going down in four unless there
is nothing short of a miracle or a stroke of genenius hits
Pat Burns.
If you were Pat Burns what would you do?
Living in the Bay area, I do not get enough Leaf coverage
to pull something out of the bag,  (I would appreciate comments
on the Leaf/Detroit 3rd line match-ups)  but here is the basic
idea...
Andreychuck and Borchevsky have no business playing against
the Wings.  They are too small.  The key to any Leafs success
will have to be Clark.  He is the only centre who can have
any presence within 3-stick lengths of the slot.  Where the
hell is Anderson?  Anderson can (in days past) get under peoples
skin.  Put a little more bluntly, Anderson has to be an asshole.
He used to be good at it.  We need him now.
Perhaps, perhaps the Leafs can shut down Detroit's second line.
I was dissappointed to see Shepard and Yserbeart flying last night.
These guys are the "swing" players for the Wings.  Last year they
did a major choke in the playoffs and were to blame for the quick
exit of the Wings.  **THis has to happen again**.   Clark-Anderson-Gilmour
should be able to out hustle this line.  Anderson should do a
nasty on Yserbeart.  Clark should bang the hell out of Sheppard.
Score Gilmour score!
Suggestions:  Clarke-Anderson-Gilmour vs. Sheppard-Yserbeart-??
Andreychuck-Borchevsy-??  vs. Detroit checking line
Toronto's checking line  vs. Yzerman-Fedorov-Probert (pray lots)
* as suggested - i would bench Andreychuck and Borchevsky to stir things up
and through a monkey wrench into Detroits game plan.  However,
if the Detroit coaching would be dumb enough to play their
checking line against these "finesse" players - well then
let them play.
** Potvin can not be faulted on 5 of the goals - keep him in.
** Van Hellamond can not be faulted for the Leafs demise either.
** The Wings defense shut down the Leafs (especially in the slot).
I hope Pat Burns realizes that his team was out-hit, out-skated, and
out-coached on Monday night.  This was not a loss because of poor goaltending
or officiating.  This calls for drastic measures ... or tee off is next Monday.
-jake.
GO LEAFS !!!
From: caj@sei.cmu.edu (Carol Jarosz)
Subject: Re: Radio stations
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Lines: 15
In article <ragraca.735252641@vela.acs.oakland.edu>,
ragraca@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Randy A. Graca) writes:
|>  The Pittsburgh Penguins games used to be
|> broadcast on KDKA 1020, but I don't know whether they will be pre-empted
|> by baseball (and moved to another station) or not.  You can try those
|> if the local baseball teams aren't playing at the same time, anyway.
|>
|> --Randy
|>
The Pens are now being broadcast on 102.5 WDVE.
Carol
From: Robert Angelo Pleshar <rp16+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Bowman whining already
Organization: University Libraries - E&S Library, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 14
NNTP-Posting-Host: andrew.cmu.edu
I should have guessed. It's time for the annual Pittsburgh Penguins
whine-a-thon. Bowman was complaning about cheap shots by the Devils in
Game 1. I'm sorry, Mr. Bowman, you're a great coach, but those "cheap
shots" were nothing compared to what's going to come. Also, I guess you
were only able to notice the cheap shots made by the guys not in white.
It's amazing what those black and gold colored glasses will do.
PS - Nice dive on that high stick Mario. Everyone knew it was a high
stick, you could have stayed on your feet and saved your diving talent
for later.
just stirring it up a bit,
Ralph
From: ad215@Freenet.carleton.ca (Rachel Holme)
Subject: Re: CBC Game Choices (was LA ON CBC...)
Reply-To: ad215@Freenet.carleton.ca (Rachel Holme)
Organization: The National Capital Freenet
Lines: 39
In a previous article, 35002_2765@uwovax.uwo.ca () says:
>In article <boora.735182771@sfu.ca>, boora@kits.sfu.ca (The GodFather) writes:
>>
>> 	CBC had a great chance for some double headers:  Toronto/Detroit
>> and Vancouver/Winnipeg, but today they said that the East gets the Leafs
>> and the West get the Vancouver game.  I thought that they would show them
>> both.
I'm totally p*-o'd, too!  Vancouver-Winnipeg is great west-coast hockey -
fast-paced and loads of talent.  What I've seen so far is hardly
entertaining, with the exception of the odd shift every now & then (of
course I missed Calgary-LA & Pitts-Jersey...)
>No, because the PINHEADS at CBC figure everyone here in Ontario cares
>for the Leafs, the Maple Leafs, and nothing but the Leafs.  Half of
>Southern Ontario is people who moved from out west, but the good folks
>in Toronto couldn't care less.  They should show the doubleheader
>(heck the second game would have two Canadian teams!), and let those
>desperate for news watch The National on Newsworld, but they don't.
>Why? Because Canada ends at Windsor, don'cha know!   Grrrrr.
Amen...
>Now I have to get updates every 30 mins. on CNN Headline News, for
>crying out loud...
That's cheaper than what I do - PHONE CALLS.  (There must be a better
system - one ring, Adams to Linden, he SCORES; two rings Bure rushes up
the ice, he SCORES, etc etc :-))
--
ad215@freenet.carleton.ca (Rachel Holme)]
From: gp2011@andy.bgsu.edu (George Pavlic)
Subject: Matt Militzok please read!
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Lines: 6
Sorry to everyone for wasting space.  Matt, the other day you posted that
you were doing a mailing list of playoff stats.  I lost your address.
Please put me on that list.  Thanks.
George
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Wings will win
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 42
In article <ragraca.735309624@vela.acs.oakland.edu> ragraca@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Randy A. Graca) writes:
>golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>
>>Bryan Murray has done very little as GM...Yzerman, Fedorov, Cheveldae,
>>Chaisson, the whole Russian strategy was a product of the previous
>>GM...Murray has made a couple of decent trades...that's about it...
>>that would hardly rank him as the best GM.
>
>There are many teams in the NHL who have taken a liking to Russian players.
>The "whole Russian strategy" is not specific to Detroit or to Devellano,
>who was GM before Murray.  What the previous GM also did was to trade
>away several players who have gone on to do well with other teams, most
>notably (in my memory) Murray Craven, who had a few very good years with
>Philly after leaving here.  Also, it's not the volume of trades that will
>necessarily improve a team, but the quality of them.  Trading Adam Oates
>for Bernie Federko was just plain stupid, even if Federko used to be a
>great player at one time.  Most of Murray's trades have worked significantly
>to the Wings' advantage, with those that didn't being soured mainly by
>injury to the players involved (such as Troy Crowder, who suffered back
>problems from which he never really recovered).
>
Devallano went earlier and more extensively to the Russian strategy
than anyone else...and was the first GM to "waste" high draft choices
on young Russians...Devallano would still be GM but he succombed to
Demers pleading to make the Oates-Federko et al trade...which is the
deal that sealed his fate.
Murray has made some decent trades...no doubt...but these are more
due to the stupidity or cheapness of other teams than brilliance on
his part...Washington was too cheap to pay Ciccarelli so they
essentially gave him away...and Carson was really a big anchor to
the team, and he was able to sucker a rookie GM to give him Paul
Coffey for deadweight.
If Detroit still fails this year because he was one defenseman short...
then he will have wasted an opportunity because Manson was available,
and he was unable to pull the trigger.  It is his judgement that he
has enough with what he's got...Yzerman doesn't have that many more
years in his prime.
Gerald
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Murray as GM  (was: Wings will win
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 18
In article <20APR199312512640@venus.lerc.nasa.gov> smorris@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Morris ) writes:
>
>Gerald, Murray wasn't responsible for Primeau (although I'm not
>ready to admit that's a horrible pick).  They hired him after the
>draft (which has never made sense to me).  His first pick was
>Lapointe.
>
I don't think Primeau is necessarily a bad pick...I'm was just trying
to locate the beginning of Murray's decisions...he slowness in trading
Carson has delayed Primeau's development...and you have to wait longer
for big players often...and Primeau can be a very good player without
being a point-a-game-player, especially on a team that has Yzerman and
Fedorov...if Primeau becomes Joel Otto, and gets 20 goals a season,
and plays mean...it will have been an extremely good pick.
Gerald
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Panther's President
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 20
In article <0P6a3B1w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> jimg@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Jim Gorycki) writes:
>
>A little Bio from _Sun-Sentinel_
>Torrey, the architect of four consecutive Stanley Cup champions as
>persident and general manager of the New York Islanders.
>Throughout his 27 years in the NHL, Bill Torrey's bow ties have become
>as much of a signature as Andre Agassi's hair.
>
>The Panthers will introduce a uniform, insignia, and ticket-price
>information in early next month.  In the meantime, Huizenga leaves the
>day-to-day operation in the hands of Torrey and Bob Clarke, the VP and
>GM.
>
The San Jose Sharks and Ottawa Senators are each on their second GM
already...I'd be willing to wager that both the Sharks and Senators
will probably see their 3rd GM's and perhaps their 4th, before we
see the Panthers second.
Gerald
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: WC 93: Results, April 18
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 26
In article <1r1439$c9t@access.digex.net> steveg@cadkey.com (Steve Gallichio) writes:
>
>Gerald Olchowy (golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca) writes:
>> Podein is an interesting case...because he was eligible to
>> play in Cape Breton in the AHL playoffs like Kovalev, Zubov,
>> and Andersson...obviously Sather and Pocklington are not
>> the total scrooges everyone makes them out to be...certainly
>> in this case they've massively outclassed Paramount and the
>> New York Rangers.
>
>What is the policy regarding players and the minor league playoffs versus WC?
>I know that the Rangers are holding back Kovalev, Zubov, and Andersson for
>Binghamton, but I also know that the Whalers wanted Michael Nylander to play
>for Springfield, while Nylander wanted to play for Sweden. The Whalers allowed
>the NHL to decide, and the NHL chose the WCs. How does this differ from the
>Rangers and Oilers? Did the Whalers have to go through the league, or could
>they have forced Nylander to play in Springfield?
>
Obviously, it is ultimately the teams choice...the NHL would obviously
prefer not to annoy the European hockey federations, but the NHL right
now cannot force NHL teams to free their players...the Whalers probably
did it this way so as to not annoy their farm team affiliate.
Gerald
From: shah@pitt.edu (Ravindra S Shah)
Subject: Re: Nords 3 - Habs 2 in O.T. We was robbed!!
Lines: 23
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Deepak Chhabra (dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca) wrote:
: Speaking of great players, man-oh-man can Quebec skate.  I haven't seen a
: team so potent on the rush in a long time.  Watching them break out of their
: zone, especially Sundin, is a treat to watch.  They remind me of the Red
: Army.
: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (pissed-off Habs fan)
Yeah, the Nords look like they're going to be good...but (excuse the
bias) have you ever watched the Pens on a rush?...Don't answer: everyone
has seen this footage.  Near the end of the season when the Pens played
the Nords it was like watching a (younger) double of the Pens.  ...The
Nords looked good right up to the point when they lost.
--
Ravi Shah
shah+@pitt.edu
"La mu'sica ideas portara'  	approx. translation: "Music will bring ideas
y siempre continuara'				     and will continue forever
sonido electro'nico				     electronic sound
decibel sinte'tico"	-Musique non stop-	     synthetic decibel"
-Kraftwerk
From: jca2@cec1.wustl.edu (Joseph Charles Achkar)
Subject: Re: Thumbs up to ESPN
Keywords: ESPN, Detroit, Toronto, Hockey Coverage
Nntp-Posting-Host: cec1
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Distribution: na
Lines: 26
In article <C5sCLK.8B5@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr) writes:
>
>What, did you leave the room each of the 100 or so times they said that
>there WERE NO OTHER NIGHT BASEBALL GAMES? Every break they took back at
>the studio mentioned it, followed by 'so...we're gonna show you hockey
>instead.' My wife and I are hoping for rain at every baseball game they
>have a feed for tommorrow night...
>
>Point is, be glad they showed hockey, but if baseball was available
>anywhere else you can bet you would've watched baseball last night.
>
>pete clark
I know that there wasn't other games on the schedule, but ESPN sometimes
shows classic games from previous season to fill in the time slot.
%*%*%*%**%*%%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*
*   __  ______________         ____________________________________    %
%   \ \_)____________/         A L L E Z   L E S   B L U E S  ! ! !    *
*    \    __________/          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    %
%     \    ________/                                                   *
*      \   _______/                  Joe Ashkar                        %
%       \  \                         Contact for the Blues             *
*        \  \  SAINT LOUIS           jca2@cec1.wustl.edu               %
%        (___)             BLUES                                       *
*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%
From: cal2d@csissun11.ee.Virginia.EDU (Craig Allen Lorie)
Subject: Re: Thumbs up to ESPN
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 7
With everyone bitching about the hockey coverage by ESPN its almost like the
Detroit-Toronto game was not televised last nite.  I was just thankful to see
hockey on a night that it wasn't supposed to be carried.  Thanks to ESPN, no
matter why they televised the game
Craig
Subject: Remarks by President Clinton to NCAA Division I Champion Hockey Team
From: "nigel allen" <nigel.allen@canrem.com>
Reply-To: "nigel allen" <nigel.allen@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Lines: 158
Here is a press release from the White House.
Remarks by President Clinton to NCAA Division I Champion Hockey Team
April 19; Q&A Following
To: National Desk
Contact: White House Office of the Press Secretary, 202-456-2100
WASHINGTON, April 19 -- Following is a transcript
of remarks by President Clinton to the University of Maine "Black
Bears" NCAA Division I hockey champions:
The Rose Garden
9:58 A.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT:  Good morning ladies and gentlemen.  It's
an honor for me to welcome the University of Maine Black Bears, the
winner of the NCAA Division I hockey national championship to the
Rose Garden and the White House.  I understand from Senator Mitchell
that this is the first team from the University of Maine every to win
a national championship.  And we're glad to have them here.
I'm inspired not only by how the team pulled together to
win the championship, but how the entire state pulled together to
cheer them onto victory.
Coming from a state that is also relatively small in
size, but also filled with pride and tradition and community, I can
understand how the people of Maine must feel about the Black Bears.
In our state people are still talking about the time we won the
Orange Bowl over the number one ranked football team, and that was
back in 1978.  I'm sure that 15 years from now, the people of Maine
will as proud of this team as they are today.
You know, in my state football is a slightly more
popular sport than hockey.  We don't have a lot of ice.  (Laughter.)
But after spending three months getting banged around in this town, I
can understand a little more about hockey than I did before I came
here.  Hockey is a tough game.  It's a hard-hitting sport.  It does
have one virtue though, there's a penalty for delay of game.  I wish
we had that rule in the Senate.  (Laughter.)
In government as in hockey, leadership is important.  In
the United States Senate, our team has a great captain, the Majority
Leader and the senior Senator from Maine, George Mitchell; junior
Senator -- Cohen looks so young, I can't imagine.  (Laughter.)  I'm
actually bitter about Senator Cohen because he looks so much younger
than me.
On your hockey team, the captain Jim Montgomery has done
a great job.  He scored the winning goal late in the championship
game, leading you to a come-from-behind victory -- something else I
know a little bit about.
Sport brings out the best in individuals and in teams
and in communities.  I share the pride that Senator Mitchell and
Senator Cohen and Congressman Andrews and all the people of Maine
must feel for the Black Bears who have shown us all how to play as a
team, how to bring out the best in one another, and how to come from
behind.
I think it's important, as I ask young people from
around America who have achieved outstanding things in working
together, to come here to the White House to be recognized and
appreciated by their country, to remember that those kinds of values
and those kinds of virtues need to be ingrained in all of us for all
of our lives.
We now have another role model, and I'm glad to have
them here today.  (Applause.)
(The President is presented with team jersey.)
(Applause.)
THE PRESIDENT:  That's great.  I love it.  It's beautiful.
(Applause.)
(The President is presented with an autographed stick.)
THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you.  That's great.  (Applause.)
* * * * * *
Q  Mr. President, did you authorize the move on Waco
this morning, sir?
THE PRESIDENT:  I was aware of it.  I think the Attorney
General made the decision.  And I think I should refer all questions
to her and to the FBI.
Q  Did you have any instructions for her as to how it
should be executed?
THE PRESIDENT:  No, they made the tactical decisions.
That was their judgment, the FBI.
Q  Is this a raid?
THE PRESIDENT:  And I will -- I want to refer you to --
talk to the Attorney General and the FBI.  I knew it was going to be
done, but the decisions were entirely theirs, all the tactical
decisions.
Q  What did you and Senator Mitchell talk about this
morning?
Q  Any chance for that stimulus package?
THE PRESIDENT:  Senator Mitchell ought to pay my
quarter.  (Laughter.)  I was in there -- (laughter).
SENATOR MITCHELL:  You have to pay that quarter.
THE PRESIDENT:  I was ready.  (Laughter.)  Senator
Mitchell, he's worth a quarter any day.
Q  Any chance for your bill, sir?
THE PRESIDENT:  We talked about what was going to happen
this week in the Senate and about what other meetings we're going to
have for the rest of the week.  We only had about five minutes to
talk.  And we agreed we'd get back together later, around noon, and
talk some more.
Q  Senator Dole said over the weekend that your
compromise is no compromise.
THE PRESIDENT:  Well, I know he did, but, look, Senator
Dole and a lot of the other Republicans now in the Senate voted for
the same kind of thing for Ronald Reagan in 1983; and our research
indicates that a majority of them over time voted for a total of 28
emergency spending measures totalling over $100 billion when Reagan
and Bush were President, in those administrations.  And many of those
purposes were not nearly as worthy as putting the American people
back to work.  I don't want to go back and revisit every one, but you
can do it.  You can look at the research there.  So this position
they're taking is not credible.  We have a very tough five-year
deficit reduction plan.  All these costs are covered during that time
and then some.  And the very people that are saying this has all got
to be paid for don't have much of a history on which to base their
position.  They've got 12 years of vote for stimulus measures of this
kind that had very little to with putting the American people back to
work.  So I think we've got a chance to work it out, and I'm hopeful.
We'll see what happens today and tomorrow.  I'm feeling pretty good
about it.
THE PRESS:  Thank you
END       10:10 A.M. EDT
-30-
--
Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario
416-629-7000/629-7044
From: jrmst8+@pitt.edu (Joseph R Mcdonald)
Subject: Re: Wirtz is a weenie
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Lines: 27
In article <wfozwMi00Uh_E1kyE=@andrew.cmu.edu> rp16+@andrew.cmu.edu (Robert Angelo Pleshar) writes:
>In other TV news, the Penguins announced yesterday that they will have 3
>fewer broadcast TV games, and will have 22(!) games on some sort of
>subscription / pay-per-view system. Yuck.
This is incorrect.  This year the Pens had 61 games on "free" TV and 6
games on PPV.  Next year they will have 62 games on free TV and 22 on
a subscription basis.
You actually get 1 more free game than last year, and there will be no
more "radio-only" games.
Its a good deal.  Last year, everybody bitched about Baldwin "breaking
up the team".  Now, he goes out of his way to keep the nucleus of this
team together and that takes money.  He comes up with a creative way
to generate more revenue so he can afford this team, and people bitch
some more.
Everybody wants something for nothing.
Dean
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dean J. Falcione                                      "Badges? What badges? We
(using jrmst8 by permission                            Don't need no stinkin'
of the owner, Joe McDonald)                           badges!"
From: shah@pitt.edu (Ravindra S Shah)
Subject: Re: ABC coverage
Distribution: usa
Lines: 28
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Joseph B Stiehm (joe13+@pitt.edu) wrote:
: I have one complaint for the cameramen doing the Jersey-Pitt series:  Show
: the shots, not the hits.  On more than one occassion the camera zoomed in
: on a check along the boards while the puck was in the slot.  They panned
: back to show the rebound.  Maybe Mom's camera people were a little more
: experienced.
: Joseph Stiehm
Exactly.  That is my biggest complaint about the coverage so far.
Follow that damn puck!
--
Ravi Shah
shah+@pitt.edu
"La mu'sica ideas portara'  	approx. translation: "Music will bring ideas
y siempre continuara'				     and will continue forever
sonido electro'nico				     electronic sound
decibel sinte'tico"	-Musique non stop-	     synthetic decibel"
-Kraftwerk
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: If You Were Pat Burns ...
Keywords: Leaf Wings
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 20
In article <1r1chb$5l2@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> jake@rambler.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>
>
>What are the Leafs to do?  I am a Leaf supporter and
>I say the Leafs are going down in four unless there
>is nothing short of a miracle or a stroke of genenius hits
>Pat Burns.
>
>If you were Pat Burns what would you do?
>
Pray for the Wings to become lazy and overconfident...the Wings
can only lose the series...Toronto cannot win it.  Take away
Doug Gilmour and the Leafs are an old Tampa Bay.
The Leafs deserve a lot of credit for their diligent effort
during the regular season...but if Detroit puts in a reasonable
effort, this is not a contest.
Gerald
From: LMARSHA@cms.cc.wayne.edu (Laurie Marshall)
Subject: Re: If You Were Pat Burns ...
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit MI  U.S.A.
Lines: 30
NNTP-Posting-Host: cms.cc.wayne.edu
In article <1r1chb$5l2@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
jake@rambler.Eng.Sun.COM (Jason Cockroft) writes:
>Suggestions:  Clarke-Anderson-Gilmour vs. Sheppard-Yserbeart-??
>              Andreychuck-Borchevsy-??  vs. Detroit checking line
>              Toronto's checking line  vs. Yzerman-Fedorov-Probert (pray lots)
>
Well, I'm a Wings fan and I think the FIRST thing that you should do is to
get the opponent's line combinations correct before you try to match up anyone
with them.  There is no Yzerman-Fedorov-Probert line, except for maybe on a
powerplay.  These three players usually play on three different lines.
Which would mean that Toronto's checking line would have to pull a triple
shift.
The Wings' lines usually look like this:
Gallant-Yzerman-Ciccarelli
Kozlov-Fedorov-Drake
Kennedy-Burr-Probert
Ysebaert-Primeau-Sheppard
Oh by the way:  Start praying! : )
Laurie Marshall
Wayne State University
Detroit, Michigan
Go Wings!!!!!
From: franjion@spot.Colorado.EDU (John Franjione)
Subject: Re: Bay area media (Wings-Leafs coverage)
Nntp-Posting-Host: spot.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 27
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>In <DREIER.93Apr19195132@durban.berkeley.edu> dreier@durban.berkeley.edu (Roland Dreier) writes:
>>The San Francisco Bay area media is reporting tonight that the Detroit
>>Red Wings beat the Toronto Maple Leafs 6-3.  Can someone who is not
>>part of the media conspiracy against the Leafs tell me how the game
>>really went (I am expecting a 4-0 win for the Leafs, shutout for
>>Potvin, hat trick for Andreychuk and a goal and 3 assists for
>>Gilmour).  If the Leafs really lost, how many penalties did whichever
>>biased ref was at the game have to call against the Leafs to let the
>>Red Wings win?
>Ah yes.  California.  Did the San Francisco Bay area media report that
>Joe Montana is rumoured to be the leading candidate to replace fired
>San Jose Sharks coach George Kingston?  Apparently Montana is not only
>coveted for his winning attitude, but as a playing coach he will be
>expected to quarterback the powerplay.
Good comeback, Rog.  Your quick wit and intelligence continues to
amaze everyone.
--
John Franjione
Department of Chemical Engineering
University of Colorado, Boulder
franjion@spot.colorado.edu
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: If You Were Pat Burns ...
Keywords: Leaf Wings
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Lines: 24
In <1993Apr20.181549.11414@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>Pray for the Wings to become lazy and overconfident...the Wings
>can only lose the series...Toronto cannot win it.  Take away
>Doug Gilmour and the Leafs are an old Tampa Bay.
Right Gerald.  And take away Bob Probert and the Wings are dead Octopuses.
>The Leafs deserve a lot of credit for their diligent effort
>during the regular season...but if Detroit puts in a reasonable
>effort, this is not a contest.
Let's wait for the body to get cold before we start in with the eulogies
hm?  They have only lost ONE game.  The game was in Detroit after all and
Potvin did not have his best evening.  Nobody that I saw thought that the
Leafs would sweep the Wings.  It looks like it might go six.  The Leafs
will take the Wings home advantage away in the next game.
--
cordially, as always,                      maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
"So many morons...
rm                                                   ...and so little time."
From: hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Valerie S. Hammerl)
Subject: Re: Goalie masks
Organization: UB
Lines: 18
Nntp-Posting-Host: autarch.acsu.buffalo.edu
In article <1993Apr16.164811.21637@newshub.ists.ca> dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra) writes:
>[...] and I'll give Fuhr's new one an honourable mention, although I haven't
>seen it closely yet (it looked good from a distance!).
This is the new Buffalo one, the second since he's been with the
Sabres?  I recall a price tag of over $700 just for the paint job on
that mask, and a total price of almost $1500.  Ouch.
--
Valerie Hammerl			Birtday -(n)- An event when friends get
hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu	together, set your dessert on fire, then
acscvjh@ubms.cc.buffalo.edu	laugh and sing while you frantically try
v085pwwpz@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu  to blow it out.
From: hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Valerie S. Hammerl)
Subject: Re: Octopus in Detroit?
Organization: UB
Lines: 16
Nntp-Posting-Host: autarch.acsu.buffalo.edu
In article <1993Apr17.062622.25380@news.clarkson.edu> farenebt@logic.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy) writes:
>In fact, the tradition has been passed down to their affiliate
>in Adirondack. In Gm 6 of last yr's finals, an 8 legged creature was
>hurled onto the frozen pond and landed right at the feet of ref
>Lance Roberts.
It may have been passed to Toronto, but I've even seen an octopus at
the Aud -- last year's Bruins-Sabres game.  I knew all about the
Detroit version, but seeing at the Aud was a bit puzzling.  :-)
--
Valerie Hammerl			Birtday -(n)- An event when friends get
hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu	together, set your dessert on fire, then
acscvjh@ubms.cc.buffalo.edu	laugh and sing while you frantically try
v085pwwpz@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu  to blow it out.
From: stamber@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Kevin L. Stamber)
Subject: Re: Pens playoff radio coverage (was:Re: Radio stations)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Lines: 18
In article <gp2011-200493131949@m248-68.bgsu.edu>, gp2011@andy.bgsu.edu (George Pavlic) writes:
>
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!  Who's the mindscheme(?) behind this one -- Ted
> Simmons?  As the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."  I'm 230
> miles from home (during the school year) and will never be able to pick up
> DVE.  At least now I can sort of make out what Mike and Steigy say through
> all the static on KDKA.  This just may be enough reason for me to transfer
> to Duquesne and live at home.  Who's going to announce on DVE anyway?
> Paulson and Krenn?  (Just kidding.)
>
> George
Don't kid around... They just might listen.
Kevin L. Stamber
Purdue University
waiting to hear 'Free Bird' as the new Penguins theme
From: stamber@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Kevin L. Stamber)
Subject: LIST OF TEE TIMES AT METROPOLITAN TORONTO GOLF COURSES FOR MONDAY
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Lines: 6
;^)
Kevin L. Stamber
Purdue University
...and Phil Kirzyc (The Kielbasa Kid) will roam the Arena for interviews.
From: jpc@philabs.philips.com (John P. Curcio)
Subject: ABC's announcers, ESPN's (lack of) coverage (WAS: Re: Atlanta ...)
Originator: jpc@condor
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff, NY 10510
Lines: 38
In article <1993Apr19.160356.19160@newshub.ists.ca>, dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra) writes:
|> Ok, here's the solution to your problem.  Move to Canada.  Yesterday I was able
|> to watch FOUR games...the NJ-PITT at 1:00 on ABC, LA-CAL at 3:00 (CBC),
|> BUFF-BOS at 7:00 (TSN and FOX), and MON-QUE at 7:30 (CBC).  I think that if
|> each series goes its max I could be watching hockey playoffs for 40-some odd
|> consecutive nights (I haven't counted so that's a pure guess).
The worst thing is that this is exactly what I did last year.  I had the Rangers
on MSG, and the two different games on SCNY and SCA on at the same time.  Yes,
I'd rather have SC cover it, just for the amount of coverage.
|> Btw, those ABC commentaters were great!  I was quite impressed; they seemed
|> to know that their audience wasn't likely to be well-schooled in hockey lore
|> and they did an excellent job.  They were quite impartial also, IMO.
I think Thorne earns his money.  The best part is that he is the same way when
he is earning his $$ from SportsChannel as the Devils announcer (i.e.,
unbiased).  He goes orgasmic for goals, despite which team scores, and even more
excited (if possible) for great saves.  He did a good job of explaining certain
things to non-hockey types without offending those of us who follow the sport
(unlike NBC's clowns for the ASG).
-JPC
(Ob. Playoff-time flame-bait)
Don't any of you Pittsburgh fans tell me how Mike Lang(e) is better.
Maybe if he were a little spontaneous, rather than reading rehearsed
lines of B.S having nothing to do with hockey he would be better.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John P. Curcio 		          Go Bruins!		   Philips Laboratories
jpc@philabs.philips.com 			           345 Scarborough Road
(914) 945-6442               	 		     Briarcliff Manor, NY 10510
From: lee139@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Steve Lee)
Subject: Re: LIST OF TEE TIMES AT METROPOLITAN TORONTO GOLF COURSES FOR MONDAY
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Nntp-Posting-Host: obelix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca
Lines: 18
In article <C5spEC.EuC@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> stamber@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Kevin L. Stamber) writes:
>Kevin L. Stamber
>Purdue University
>...and Phil Kirzyc (The Kielbasa Kid) will roam the Arena for interviews.
Woops!  This is rec.sport.hockey! Not rec.sport.golf!  Hope you check the
newsgroup header next time before posting!
Steve
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Lee      *      University of Western Ontario      *      London, Canada
lee139@obelix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: ingo@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (Electroholic)
Subject: Re: Hockey & Hispanic market
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Lines: 34
In article <115868@bu.edu> icop@csa.bu.edu (Antonio Pera) writes:
>
>In article <saross01.734885336@starbase.spd.louisville.edu>, saross01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (Stacey A. Ross) writes:
>|> In <C5I2s2.3Bt@odin.corp.sgi.com> rickc@wrigley.corp.sgi.com (Richard Casares) writes:
>|> >You'll have a hard time selling any sport to a community that
>|> >can't play it on account of availability or financial reasons.
>|> >Hockey is pretty much a sport for the white and well off.
>
>What is this crap? I'm only interested in intelligent discussion. If you
>can't answer my question, just say so. Can anyone else answer the ques.?
>
It's not really crap you know... only half crap ;-)   From what i
understand it's very expensive to play hockey south of the border...
(actually it's not that cheap up hear either... though once you have all the
equipement it's not more than $300 a year... actually i haven' played in
about 8 years so i could be off a bit... )  In the states, where ice time
is considerably more expensive it can cost over a thousand a year... compare
this to baseball and you'll see that hockey is a sport for the well-to-do...
And this brings up the fact that the well-to-do in the US are majority white...
BTW: what was the original question... i think it has to do with the Hispanic
communtiy and playing hockey....
Cheers!
i.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ingo@sunee.uwaterloo.ca                   | The more violent the body     |
|  iwweigel@descartes.uwaterloo.ca           | contact of the sports you     |
|  ingo@electrical.watstar.uwaterloo.ca      | watch, the lower your class.  |
|  iwweigele@electrical.watstar.uwaterloo.ca |         -- Paul Fussell       |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the University of Waterloo had on opinion, this probably wouldn't be it...
From: hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Valerie S. Hammerl)
Subject: Re: NHL Team Captains
Organization: UB
Lines: 48
Nntp-Posting-Host: autarch.acsu.buffalo.edu
In article <1993Apr20.130822.603@exu.ericsson.se> lmcdapi@noah.ericsson.se writes:
>In article K00WBM850Z5v@andrew.cmu.edu, am2x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anna Matyas) writes:
>>
>>Michael Collingridge writes:
>>
>>>And, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been traded,
>>>resigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any other
>>>team captain trivia would be appreciated.
>>
>>Wasn't Ron Francis captain of the Whalers when he was traded to
>>Pittsburgh?
>>
>>Mom.
>
>Chris Chelios was Montreal's co-captain with Guy Carbonneau when he
>was traded to Chicago for Denis Savard, and Peter Stastny was captain
>of the Quebec Nordiques when he was traded to New-Jersey. Also Mark
>Messier was captain of the Edmonton Oilers when he was traded to New
>York. How about Dale Hawerchuk with Winnipeg when he was traded to
>Buffalo, was he captain too ? I think so. I should not forget Wayne
>(you know who) when he was traded to L.A. he was captain. Didn't they
>strip Wendel Clark of his captaincy in Toronto ?
>
Buffalo seems to have started a tradition of trading its captains.
Pat LaFontaine was awarded the Captaincy when Mike Ramsey was forced
to give it up (Ramsey's now a Penguin).  Ramsey inherited it from Mike
Foligno (who's now a leaf).  He in turn had inherited it from Lindy
Ruff, who went I forget where.  Ruff had it from Perreault, who
retired, so I guess that's where the streak started.  Or did it?
After all, Danny Gare was captain before him, and he went to Detroit.
Jim Scoenfeld, Gerry Meehan, and Floyd Smith are the others, in
reverse order, last to first.  I was a bit young at the time, so I'm
not sure of the fate of Schoenfeld, but he ultimately went to Detroit
and Boston.  Meehan went to Vancouver, Atlanta and Washington.  Smith
seems to have hung up his skates after Buffalo, but I don't know if
the captaincy was removed before or after that, or how many games he
played for Buffalo.  This is actually getting fascinating.  :-)
Captaincy in Buffalo is a sure sign you're to be traded, almost,
unless you're a franchise player.
--
Valerie Hammerl			Birtday -(n)- An event when friends get
hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu	together, set your dessert on fire, then
acscvjh@ubms.cc.buffalo.edu	laugh and sing while you frantically try
v085pwwpz@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu  to blow it out.
From: spiegel@sgi413.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com (Mark Spiegel)
Subject: Re: Bay area media (Wings-Leafs coverage)
Organization:  Personal Opinions Inc.
Lines: 41
In article <1993Apr20.031840.18636@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>In <DREIER.93Apr19195132@durban.berkeley.edu> dreier@durban.berkeley.edu (Roland Dreier) writes:
>
>>The San Francisco Bay area media is reporting tonight that the Detroit
>>Red Wings beat the Toronto Maple Leafs 6-3.  Can someone who is not
>>part of the media conspiracy against the Leafs tell me how the game
>>really went (I am expecting a 4-0 win for the Leafs, shutout for
>>Potvin, hat trick for Andreychuk and a goal and 3 assists for
>>Gilmour).  If the Leafs really lost, how many penalties did whichever
>>biased ref was at the game have to call against the Leafs to let the
>>Red Wings win?
>
>Ah yes.  California.  Did the San Francisco Bay area media report that
>Joe Montana is rumoured to be the leading candidate to replace fired
>San Jose Sharks coach George Kingston?  Apparently Montana is not only
>coveted for his winning attitude, but as a playing coach he will be
>expected to quarterback the powerplay.
Close Roger, but no banana, er avocado or is it artichoke ?!?
Geracie in the Murky News said Kingston will be the new 49ers
quarterback.  I'm still trying to determine if he is kidding
or not :).  If I happen to pound down enuff pints sometime
this week I'll go back and check what stooper idiot Purdy
said in his column.  That ought to be worth a few Leafs, I
mean Laughs.   If I'm really depressed I'll read the SF Comicle.
mark
just say
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#       #     #  #   #  #     # #  #    #                    \    --_
#####  ####### #     # ######  ###      #####                \      -_
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#     # #     # #     # #    #  #   #   #     #    __________ /         \_____
#####  #     # #     # #     # #    #   #####  ___________ /            \_____
______________________________________________________________________________
Mark Spiegel  spiegel@lmsc.lockheed.com   Cow Palace:108/K/8  Epicenter: ?
From: slegge@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Re: NHL Team Captains
Lines: 12
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
NJ> : >And, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been
traded,
NJ> : >resigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any
other
NJ> : >team captain trivia would be appreciated.
Mike Foligno was captain of the Buffalo Sabres when he was traded to
Toronto.
Stephen Legge
SLEGGE@kean.ucs.mun.ca
\
From: e8l6@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Rocket)
Subject: NHL Playoff leaders as of April 19, 1993
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Distribution: rec.sport.hockey
Lines: 126
Playoff leaders as of April 19, 1993
Player       Team   GP  G   A  Pts +/- PIM
M.Lemieux    PIT     1   2   2   4   0   0
Juneau       BOS     1   1   3   4   0   0
Noonan       CHI     1   3   0   3   0   0
Mogilny      BUF     1   2   1   3   0   0
Neely        BOS     1   2   1   3   0   0
Brown        STL     1   1   2   3   0   0
Jagr         PIT     1   1   2   3   0   0
Oates        BOS     1   0   3   3   0   0
Carson       LA      1   2   0   2   0   0
Hunter       WAS     1   2   0   2   0   0
Stevens      NJ      1   2   0   2   0   0
Cullen       TOR     1   1   1   2   0   0
Hull         STL     1   1   1   2   0   0
Khristich    WAS     1   1   1   2   0   0
Linden       VAN     1   1   1   2   0   0
Racine       DET     1   1   1   2   0   0
Shanahan     STL     1   1   1   2   0   0
Sydor        LA      1   1   1   2   0   0
Yzerman      DET     1   1   1   2   0   0
Bure         VAN     1   0   2   2   0   0
Coffey       DET     1   0   2   2   0   0
Drake        DET     1   0   2   2   0   0
Emerson      STL     1   0   2   2   0   0
G.Courtnall  VAN     1   0   2   2   0   0
Johansson    WAS     1   0   2   2   0   0
Lapointe     QUE     1   0   2   2   0   0
Niedermayer  NJ      1   0   2   2   0   0
Ramsey       PIT     1   0   2   2   0   0
Sandstrom    LA      1   0   2   2   0   0
Smehlik      BUF     1   0   2   2   0   0
Stevens      PIT     1   0   2   2   0   0
Adams        VAN     1   1   0   1   0   0
Barr         NJ      1   1   0   1   0   0
Bellows      MON     1   1   0   1   0   0
Burr         DET     1   1   0   1   0   0
Chiasson     DET     1   1   0   1   0   0
Craven       VAN     1   1   0   1   0   0
Dahlquist    CAL     1   1   0   1   0   0
Dionne       MON     1   1   0   1   0   0
Felsner      STL     1   1   0   1   0   0
Ferraro      NYI     1   1   0   1   0   0
Francis      PIT     1   1   0   1   0   0
Gilmour      TOR     1   1   0   1   0   0
Hannan       BUF     1   1   0   1   0   0
Heinze       BOS     1   1   0   1   0   0
Howe         DET     1   1   0   1   0   0
Huddy        LA      1   1   0   1   0   0
King         WIN     1   1   0   1   0   0
LaFontaine   BUF     1   1   0   1   0   0
Lefebvre     TOR     1   1   0   1   0   0
McSorley     LA      1   1   0   1   0   0
Millen       LA      1   1   0   1   0   0
Ronning      VAN     1   1   0   1   0   0
Rucinsky     QUE     1   1   0   1   0   0
Sakic        QUE     1   1   0   1   0   0
Sheppard     DET     1   1   0   1   0   0
Steen        WIN     1   1   0   1   0   0
Suter        CAL     1   1   0   1   0   0
Sweeney      BUF     1   1   0   1   0   0
Tipett       PIT     1   1   0   1   0   0
Yawney       CAL     1   1   0   1   0   0
Young        QUE     1   1   0   1   0   0
Barnes       WIN     1   0   1   1   0   0
Borschevsky  TOR     1   0   1   1   0   0
Brunet       MON     1   0   1   1   0   0
Chelios      CHI     1   0   1   1   0   0
Ciccarelli   DET     1   0   1   1   0   0
Clark        TOR     1   0   1   1   0   0
Desjardins   MON     1   0   1   1   0   0
Dipietro     MON     1   0   1   1   0   0
Donnelly     LA      1   0   1   1   0   0
Driver       NJ      1   0   1   1   0   0
Duchesne     QUE     1   0   1   1   0   0
Ellett       TOR     1   0   1   1   0   0
Elynuik      WAS     1   0   1   1   0   0
Flatley      NYI     1   0   1   1   0   0
Fleury       CAL     1   0   1   1   0   0
Gallant      DET     1   0   1   1   0   0
Gill         TOR     1   0   1   1   0   0
Granato      LA      1   0   1   1   0   0
Gretzky      LA      1   0   1   1   0   0
Guerin       NJ      1   0   1   1   0   0
Hawerchuk    BUF     1   0   1   1   0   0
Holik        NJ      1   0   1   1   0   0
Housley      WIN     1   0   1   1   0   0
Janney       STL     1   0   1   1   0   0
K.Brown      CHI     1   0   1   1   0   0
Khmylev      BUF     1   0   1   1   0   0
Krygier      WAS     1   0   1   1   0   0
Larmer       CHI     1   0   1   1   0   0
MacInnis     CAL     1   0   1   1   0   0
Matteau      CHI     1   0   1   1   0   0
McEachern    PIT     1   0   1   1   0   0
McLean       VAN     1   0   1   1   0   0
McRae        STL     1   0   1   1   0   0
Mullen       PIT     1   0   1   1   0   0
Muller       MON     1   0   1   1   0   0
Murphy       PIT     1   0   1   1   0   0
Murzyn       VAN     1   0   1   1   0   0
Otto         CAL     1   0   1   1   0   0
Pearson      TOR     1   0   1   1   0   0
Pivonka      WAS     1   0   1   1   0   0
Primeau      DET     1   0   1   1   0   0
Probert      DET     1   0   1   1   0   0
Reichel      CAL     1   0   1   1   0   0
Ricci        QUE     1   0   1   1   0   0
Robitaille   LA      1   0   1   1   0   0
Roenick      CHI     1   0   1   1   0   0
Samuelsson   PIT     1   0   1   1   0   0
Semak        NJ      1   0   1   1   0   0
Shannon      WIN     1   0   1   1   0   0
Shuchuk      LA      1   0   1   1   0   0
Sundin       QUE     1   0   1   1   0   0
Sutter       CHI     1   0   1   1   0   0
Taylor       LA      1   0   1   1   0   0
Tocchet      PIT     1   0   1   1   0   0
Vaske        NYI     1   0   1   1   0   0
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-                                                                           -
-    Maurice Richard                                                        -
From: slegge@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Leafs versus Wings
Lines: 46
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
How long can the Leafs play short-handed and still be expected to
score?  They did some fine penely-killing in the first (2 men down
for a couple of minutes at one point) but they just couldn't keep it
up.  They spent virtually the entire game either short-handed or
just coming off a penelty -- as soon as they'd get re-grouped, they're
penalized again!
Sheesh -- like Gilmour said after the 1st -- you can't go calling
every little push an shove in a game like that.  And if you're going
to, you have to do it for both teams.
Pearson (one of my four favorite Leafs) played like a bonehead -- I
saw him personally screw up at least 2 good scoring opportunities, and
then he got that *bonehead* 5-minute major high-sticking penalty.
Cullen has gotten stronger since his return from injury a hand-full of
games ago and he played a good game.  If the other players on his line
can smarten up, that line should do okay.  Clark's got to get tough --
he's got to intimidate and go for the net.  Send Clark up the left
wing over the blue line a couple times... his patented wrist shot will
put some numbers on the board... and Pearson... heck, maybe he should
be benched.
I hate to repeat Grapes, but where the heck was Foligno?  Zezel can't
do all the checking himself -- and get MacLlwain on the move... we
need some speed out there!  Keep Potvin in net, he did okay
considering... although (like I said a couple weeks ago) Potvin
messed up in a couple games in the AHL playoffs last year -- he can
easily do it again.
My prediction last week was Toronto in 7 -- that the games DET wins
will be blow-outs and the game TOR wins will be close -- I still stand
by that.
Don't fret, Leafs fans, in order to win in 7, the other team has to
win 3! :-)
Burns is going to make some magic -- he'll mix up some lines.  Match
the Wings line-per-line.  He'll have his team checking hard, and he'll
never let them get out-numbered in their own end.  The Leafs will win
Wednesday night... and will take 1 or their home games (probably the
first one).
Stephen LEAF Legge
SLEGGE@kean.ucs.mun.ca
From: filipows@spk.hp.com (Dennis Filipowski)
Subject: ? Octopus
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Lines: 4
During the Detroit game Mon night there were octopus thrown on
the ice what is the meaning or symbolism here?  They used to
throw fish on the ice here in Spokane afew years ago. I never
knew where this came from.
Subject: Re: NHLPA poll (partial stats/results)
From: caldwell8102@mtroyal.ab.ca
Organization: Mount Royal College, Calgary, Alberta
Lines: 10
In article <ofnmaO_00iV1A6kYd2@andrew.cmu.edu> Young-Soo Che <yc25+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>All these people who send in their polls should take a closer look at
>NJD, they are a very deep team, with two very capable goalies, and
>excellent forwards and defensemen.  Shooter in Richer, an all around do
>it all in Todd, chef Stasny-master of a thousand dishes, power play
Kevin Todd is an Oiler and has been one for months. How closely do you follow
the Devils, anyway? Jeez....
Alan
Subject: Re: Tie Breaker....(Isles and Devils)
From: caldwell8102@mtroyal.ab.ca
Organization: Mount Royal College, Calgary, Alberta
Lines: 21
In article <lrw509f@rpi.edu>, wangr@vccsouth22.its.rpi.edu ( Rex Wang ) writes:
> 	Are people here stupid or what??? It is a tie breaker, of cause they
> have to have the same record. How can people be sooooo stuppid to put win as
> first in the list for tie breaker??? If it is a tie breaker, how can there be
> different record???? Man, I thought people in this net are good with hockey.
> I might not be great in Math, but tell me how can two teams ahve the same points
> with different record??? Man...retard!!!!!! Can't believe people actually put
> win as first in a tie breaker......
Then allow me to enlighten you, Rex. You see, there's a thing called a tie.
A tie is worth one point (I know, I know. You're not good at math. But bear
with me). A win is worth two points. So, getting two ties is the same as
getting one win. If your team played two games, won one and lost one, you'd
have two points. If my team played two games and tied them both, we'd also
have two points. We'd be tied in the standings even though our records are
different.
Perhaps you should learn something about hockey before posting again. (I am
starting to sound like Roger or what?)
Alan
From: ragraca@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Randy A. Graca)
Subject: Re: Wings will win
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, Michigan, U.S.A.
Lines: 47
NNTP-Posting-Host: vela.acs.oakland.edu
gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine) writes:
>All of this is fine.  I never said that Murray was a bad GM.  I merely said
>that he isn't the best GM in hockey- or even a contender for that honor.
>If Murray is as great as you claim- the Wings would have won the Stanley Cup
>by now- probably more than once.  If he was as great a GM as you claim
I think you missed one of my points there.  It takes *more* than a great
GM to win a stanley cup, even once.  Some of the guys on the list you
gave earlier never won one.  I agree that you and I could probably argue
back and forth for days to no avail about who is the best GM in hockey-
that is a matter of opinion, and who is to say my opinion is any better
than yours or yours than mine?  But the point of my *original* original
post (if not well stated) was that Murray has the GM abilities but not
the coaching abilities.  Which leads to below:
>and he was as poor a coach as you claim- he would have been intelligent
>enough to hire the coach to push the team to the next level of success.
I think at this point there's a personal, emotional element involved here
which transcends Murray's logical thought.  As outsiders, it's fine for
us to say, "He should hire a different coach."  In fact, he has talked about
doing so in the past.  But, the press (here in Detroit, at least) has so
built up this business about Murray never getting past the second round of
the playoffs as a coach, that I think he has taken it upon himself to
prove to the world that he *is* capable of coaching a team past the second
round.  He needs to, as the papers say, "get that monkey off his back."
So it becomes a matter not of intelligence, but of pride.  Is it foolish
to let pride stand in the way of sound logic?  Perhaps, but we're all
a little that way from time to time.  I think eventually he'll step down
from behind the bench and concentrate on his GM duties, and the team will
improve as a result.
I think his coaching duties take away time he might have otherwise spent
on GM work.  In that sense, once he steps down as coach, we'll see how
good of a GM he really is.
>But Murray is an average (unspectacular) NHL coach and a pretty good GM
>so none of this is true anyway.
I may not agree with everything you've said, but it's been fun discussing
it with you.
>Gregmeister
--Randy
From: mre@teal.Eng.Sun.COM (Mike Eisler)
Subject: Re: Schedule...
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mountain View, CA  USA
Lines: 25
NNTP-Posting-Host: teal
In article <1993Apr20.052907.1625@news.columbia.edu> gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>I can't believe that ESPN is making SportsChannel America look good.
But only in NY,NJ, Philadelphia, and Chicago. Everywhere else, the only
reason SportsChannel was available was for local baseball broadcasts.
And local baseball pre-empted the NHL playoffs. Thus far into this
playoff season, ESPN/ABC has given me more hockey in 2 days (1 game)
than SportsChannel did (0 games).
If people want hockey on TV, they should watch hockey on TV. I bet the
ratings for hockey on Sunday on ABC went into the toilet. Next week, there
will be far fewer ABC affiliates with hockey.
Someone in this thread said that he wouldn't watch the games even if
they were on TV, and this is a r.s.h. regular contributor!
Xenophobes north of border needn't fear the US-Americanization of "our"
game, because US-Americans will never figure out how to market hockey
here. Support your team; support your game.
--
Mike Eisler, mre@Eng.Sun.Com  ``Not only are they [Leafs] the best team, but
their fans are even more intelligent and insightful than Pittsburgh's.  Their
players are mighty bright, too.  I mean, he really *was* going to get his
wallet back, right?'' Jan Brittenson 3/93, on Leaf/Pen woofers in
rec.sport.hockey
From: yaska@eecg.toronto.edu (Yaska Sankar)
Subject: Re: Nords 3 - Habs 2 in O.T. We was robbed!!
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Lines: 92
In article <1993Apr19.141842.18456@newshub.ists.ca> dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra) writes:
>In article <18APR93.25909598.0086@VM1.MCGILL.CA> JBE5 <JBE5@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> writes:
>>Aargh!
>>
>>Paul Stewart is the worst and most biased ref. presently in the NHL.
>>He called a total of 4 penalties on the Habs and one on the Nordiques.
>>The Nords' penalty came in O.T.  Stewart, being an ex-Nordique himself,
>>was looking to call penalties on the Habs while letting the Nords
>>get away with murder...WE WAS ROBBED!!!!
>
>No.  Patrick Roy is the reason the game was lost, and Ron Hextall is the
>reason Quebec won.  Everybody said it would come down to goaltending, that
>goaltending was the key, etc etc.  Well, the key doesn't quite fit if you're
>Montreal.
I don't buy this at all. Roy was the reason the game was tied... and that
would *not* have been the case had Dionne kept his cool.
Hextall gave up 2 very questionable goals himself ...
Both Dionne's and Bellows' shots were misplayed by Hextall, but just because
his gaffes were early in the game, no one seems to care. Roy stood on his head
for the first 15 minutes of the game when the Nords were rushing from
end-to-end. Kamensky's mini-break after the tying goal and the first shot by
Young in OT were both excellent chances stopped by Roy. Roy outplayed Hextall
for most of the game, but Roy becomes the villain and Hextall the hero
because Roy's team didn't make full use of their opportunities.
Hextall, on the other hand, had a lot of lucky bounces ... he played very
well, but the Haller shot off the post in OT, the rebound bouncing over
Bellows' stick, the Brunet breakaway, the 3 chances for LeClair ... all
those opportunities were *not* finished off by Montreal, and it cost them.
Hextall wasn't particularly brilliant on those plays ...
>Blaming Stewart is just an
>excuse to avoid facing the fact that Roy allowed what was one of the worst
>goals he could possibly allow.  He even saw the whole shot, dammit.
Sure, no excuse ... but it was just the 1 goal. The timing stank, but against
an explosive team like Quebec, they gave them 1 opportunity too many with
a powerplay that was totally unnecessary.
>Montreal played a solid game (although they still don't know how to clear
>traffic in front of the net; the loss of Schneider will hurt even more).
I disagree. Roy played well because he wasn't screened the whole night.
The defense, for the 1st time this season, played remarkably, keeping Sakic,
Nolan, and Sundin  out of the slot most of the night.
>Normally I would say that any team that blows a 2-goal lead with less than
>five, let alone two, minutes to go in regulation time IN A PLAYOFF GAME
>ESPECIALLY needs to be smacked upside their collective heads. But I don't
>think this was a team loss (although Keane should have been able to clear
>the zone just prior to the first Quebec goal).
This most certainly was a team loss... Leclair missed his opportunities,
as did Bellows and Brunet. Dionne took a bad penalty. Damphousse and Lebeau
were *silent*. Carbonneau and Savard were a step behind all night. Roy gave
up the bad goal. Roy, by no means, can be singled out for this loss.
>Roy is paid big money to
>play.  He looked like a player in an industrial league on Sakic's shot.
And Hextall didn't on Dionne's goal? Please. Roy is paid big money because
that is his value compared to other goalies ... and he still is in the top 5,
when you consider the defense, or lack of one, that played in front of him
for most of the season.
>Demers should start Racicot in the next game.  If not that, he should let
>the damn team read the papers for the next day or two....and maybe this
>article, if possible.
The Montreal media is the quickest to heap praise and then hurl derogatory
comments against the Habs. They are no better than uninformed fans. Why should
they read the papers? They played 58 minutes of "Burnsian" hockey to shut
down Quebec. All they need tonight, and for the rest of the series is the
extra 2.
Red Light to face Quebec...rubbish. That's a guaranteed way to end the
series 4-0. Who would be taught a lesson by this ?
The fans, the media, and Racicot, perhaps. Certainly not the rest of the team.
>I didn't think the wrap-around was as bad as the second goal.  I also didn't
>think Scott Young should have gotten around the defender (can't remember who)
>in the first place.  But you are correct, it shouldn't have gone in
>regardless.
If you mean the goal should never have gone in, because there should never
have been an OT, then I agree. But the goal itself was a great piece of work
by Young. Roy had both the near and far posts covered, but Young flipped the
puck up under Roy's arm as he wrapped-around the net ... not a bad goal at all.
Yaska  ! yaska@eecg.toronto.edu ! Dept. of Electrical & Computer Engineering
Sankar !                        ! University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada
From: gp2011@andy.bgsu.edu (George Pavlic)
Subject: Re: Matt Militzok please read!
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Lines: 13
In article <gp2011-200493132808@m248-68.bgsu.edu>, gp2011@andy.bgsu.edu
(George Pavlic) wrote:
>
>
> Sorry to everyone for wasting space.  Matt, the other day you posted that
> you were doing a mailing list of playoff stats.  I lost your address.
> Please put me on that list.  Thanks.
>
> George
Sorry again.  I guess you need my address.
gp2011@mailserver.bgsu.edu
From: 900073s@dragon.acadiau.ca (Donald Smith)
Subject: Re: LIST OF TEE TIMES AT METROPOLITAN TORONTO GOLF COURSES FOR MONDAY
Organization: Acadia University
Lines: 17
lee139@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Steve Lee) writes:
>In article <C5spEC.EuC@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> stamber@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Kevin L. Stamber) writes:
>Woops!  This is rec.sport.hockey! Not rec.sport.golf!  Hope you check the
>newsgroup header next time before posting!
>Steve Lee      *      University of Western Ontario      *      London, Canada
>                      lee139@obelix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca
Actually Steve, I think he was refering to the Leafs, and when they can
be expected to hit the greens...
--
ACADIA AXEMEN! CIAU CHAMPIONS, 1993!
Donald.Smith@dragon.acadiau.ca
From: sclark@epas.utoronto.ca (Susan Clark)
Subject: Re: Bay area media (Wings-Leafs coverage)
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS
Nntp-Posting-Host: epas.utoronto.ca
Lines: 11
Yeah, the news is true...the Leafs lost to the Wings 6-3.
Wish I could say I'd seen the whole game but my husband wanted
to watch "Young Guns II" on another channel. Sometime between
the first time I tuned in and d saw the Leafs tie and the next time
I tuned in and heard the score was 5-1, something happened.
Please no woofing from Red Wings fans.  They're my third
favourite team, and if they make it past the Leafs I'll wish them
luck.  As for Potvin...well, it WAS his fist playoff game.
Susan Carroll-Clark
Who likes ANYONE Doug Gilmour plays for
From: steve@sep.Stanford.EDU (Steve Cole)
Subject: Re: SHARKS:  Kingston Fired!!!
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Lines: 38
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: himalaya.stanford.edu
In article <1993Apr20.165132.9777@adobe.com>, snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
|> In article <1993Apr20.085337.27224@leland.Stanford.EDU> terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong) writes:
|> >I think that Jack Ferreira's firing eventually led to Kingston's
|> >firing.  You mention consistency of vision.  I think the
|> >Sharks lost that with the loss of Ferreira.  There has never
|> >been a 3 headed G.M. that has ever worked.  You need one
|> >person making the personnel decisions at the top, not
|> >management by committee.  The conventional wisdom
|> >from around the league is that Ferreira would have
|> >made the moves that would have fielded a better product
|> >on the ice.
|>
|> How exactly would Ferreira accomplished this?  The three-headed GM-ship has
|> taken a lot of heat, but nobody's explained how things would have been any
|> different had Ferreira still been there.  Would Ferreira have made more
|> trades?  Who would have he had traded?  Would he have made fewer trades?
|> Who should not have been traded?
I think the three-headed GM's guiding principle was to keep veterans
in favor of youngsters only if they offered a "significant" advantage.
At the end of last season, the contracts of several veterans with somewhat
maginal contributions (Fenton, Bozek, Anderson, and a couple others I
can't remember) were bought out. The idea was that youngsters could
play almost as well, and had the potential to improve where these
older guys did not.
And they traded Mullen, because he wanted to go, not because he
wasn't good enough, but I think they were a bit too optimistic
in thinking they could make up for his contributions.
An example from this season, Skriko was brought in on a trial basis
but not kept, because of his age. I thought he was a decent
contributor worth keeping around.
The youth movement has its advantages; look at Gaudreau who
might still be in KC if more veterans had been kept around. But
you have to find the right balance.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Cole  (steve@sep.stanford.edu, apple!sep!steve)
Department of Geophysics, Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305
From: kozloce@wkuvx1.bitnet
Subject: Re: Tie Breaker....(Isles and Devils)DIR
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY
Lines: 25
In article <1993Apr18.222115.6525@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>, maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
> In <lrw509f@rpi.edu> wangr@vccsouth22.its.rpi.edu ( Rex Wang ) writes:
>
>>I might not be great in Math, but tell me how can two teams ahve the same points
>>with different record??? Man...retard!!!!!! Can't believe people actually put
>>win as first in a tie breaker......
>
> Well I don't see any smileys here.  I am trying to figure out if the poster
> is a dog or a wordprocessor.  Couldn't be neither.  Both are smarter than
> this.
>
> "I might not be great in Math"
>
>
> --
>
> cordially, as always,                      maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
>                                            "So many morons...
> rm                                                   ...and so little time."
Roger? Lecture someone on not using smileys? What sweet hipocracy...
KOZ
LETS GO CAPS!!
From: andrew@idacom.hp.com (Andrew Scott)
Subject: USENET Playoff Hockey Pool: Game 1 standings
Organization: IDACOM, A division of Hewlett-Packard
Lines: 224
Here are the standings after game 1 of each of the divisional semi-finals.
(Hey, look who's #4!)  I'll try to post the standings after "each game"
(i.e. every two days).
I managed to recover the email lost up to Saturday night, so all I'm missing
is mail that arrived between early Saturday morning and Sunday afternoon.
Many people re-sent their teams, so you may have received two replies back
from me.  If your team name is not on this list, please resend your team
to me and I'll see what I can do.  Any kind of "proof" you sent it on the
weekend will help your case.  :-)  Seriously, this is only a fun pool and
I trust each person to be honest.
Again, sorry for any inconvenience, and I hope the pool is still fun for you.
- Andrew
USENET Hockey Playoff Draft Standings
Posn	Team				Pts	Rem	Last Posn
1.	Sneddon Scorers                 43	25	(--)
2.	The Borg                        42	25	(--)
Dave Wessels                    42	25	(--)
4.	Bruce's Rented Mules            41	25	(--)
Great Expectations              41	25	(--)
Hurricane Andrew                41	25	(--)
Jerky Boys                      41	24	(--)
Homesick Hawaiian               41	25	(--)
9.	give you money monday           40	25	(--)
Einstien's Punk Band            40	25	(--)
11.	Zipper Heads                    39	25	(--)
Tapio Repo                      39	25	(--)
Detroit Homeboy                 39	25	(--)
the dead ducks                  39	25	(--)
Mike Burger                     39	25	(--)
Test Department                 39	25	(--)
Team Elvis                      39	25	(--)
Craig team                      39	25	(--)
19.	Skate or Die                    38	25	(--)
Debbie Bowles                   38	25	(--)
Fuzzfaces Galore                38	25	(--)
suds                            38	25	(--)
The Campi Machine               38	25	(--)
zachmans wingers                38	25	(--)
Sean Forbes                     38	25	(--)
Threepeat                       38	25	(--)
Flamming Senators               38	25	(--)
Team Awesome                    38	25	(--)
A.P. BURY                       38	25	(--)
PURDUE RICKS PENS               38	25	(--)
GB Flyers                       38	25	(--)
Seppo Kemppainen                38	25	(--)
33.	Paige Faults                    37	25	(--)
weenies                         37	25	(--)
chris roney                     37	25	(--)
Rednecks from Hockey Hell       37	25	(--)
Dog's Hog's                     37	25	(--)
Mind Sweepers                   37	25	(--)
Teem Kanada                     37	25	(--)
Northern Lights                 37	25	(--)
Fugazi                          37	25	(--)
Delaware Destroyers             37	25	(--)
Mopar Muscle Men                37	25	(--)
Lance Hill The Boston Bruins Fa 37	25	(--)
garryola                        37	25	(--)
Oakville Brothers               37	25	(--)
Sam & His Dogs                  37	25	(--)
Cluster Buster                  37	24	(--)
Jan Stein                       37	25	(--)
frank's little wankers          37	25	(--)
Milton Keynes Kings             37	25	(--)
The promise land                37	25	(--)
Rangers Of Destiny              37	25	(--)
54.	New Zealand Leafs               36	25	(--)
Loaded Weapons                  36	25	(--)
Bloom County All-Stars          36	25	(--)
Robarts Research Rebels         36	25	(--)
Tiger Chung Lees                36	25	(--)
goddess of fermentation         36	25	(--)
make beliefs                    36	25	(--)
Rob Del Mundo                   36	25	(--)
Heikki Salmi                    36	25	(--)
The Underwriters                36	25	(--)
Muller n Walker                 36	25	(--)
Controversy Warriors            36	25	(--)
Bjorkloven                      36	25	(--)
Norway Killerwhales             36	25	(--)
Holsteins SFB                   36	25	(--)
buffalo soldiers                36	25	(--)
Lemon Pepper Grizzly Bears      36	25	(--)
FRACK ATTACK                    36	25	(--)
Houdini's Magicians             36	25	(--)
The ^&#@$#$% Rangers of 1940    36	24	(--)
Rangers Blow                    36	25	(--)
75.	Dave Hiebert                    35	25	(--)
Yan Loke                        35	25	(--)
Canadian Gladiators             35	25	(--)
littlest giants                 35	25	(--)
Alf's All-Stars                 35	25	(--)
The Ice Kickers                 35	25	(--)
Beer Makes Me An Expert         35	25	(--)
Force 25                        35	25	(--)
Mr Creosote                     35	25	(--)
The Goobmeister                 35	25	(--)
The Mulberry Maulers            35	25	(--)
Rev's Rebels                    35	25	(--)
BOSSE                           35	25	(--)
Zippety Doodah                  35	25	(--)
Kramer George and Jerry         35	25	(--)
DehraDun Maawalis               35	25	(--)
Sludge                          35	25	(--)
j's rock'em sock'ems            35	25	(--)
brians bloodletters             35	25	(--)
Grant Marven                    35	25	(--)
Arctic Circles                  35	25	(--)
all the kane's men              35	25	(--)
trevor's triumph                35	25	(--)
Mark And Steve Dreaming Again   35	25	(--)
Goaldingers                     35	25	(--)
Bjoern Leaguen                  35	25	(--)
Habs Playing Golf               35	25	(--)
102.	Shigella                        34	25	(--)
New Jersey Rob                  34	25	(--)
Steves Superstars               34	25	(--)
Big Bay Bombers                 34	25	(--)
Doug Bowles                     34	25	(--)
Neural Netters                  34	25	(--)
LIPPE                           34	25	(--)
Lets Go Pandas                  34	25	(--)
Les Raisins                     34	25	(--)
Daves knee jerk picks           34	25	(--)
Monica Loke                     34	25	(--)
Jason team                      34	25	(--)
RENEB                           34	25	(--)
Schott Shooters                 34	25	(--)
Gilles Carmel                   34	25	(--)
Lewey's Lakers                  34	25	(--)
smithw                          34	25	(--)
East City Jokers                34	25	(--)
Daryl Turner                    34	25	(--)
Doug Mraz                       34	25	(--)
Skriko Wolves                   34	25	(--)
IceMachine                      34	25	(--)
Lamp Lighters                   34	25	(--)
On Thin Ice                     34	25	(--)
JOE'S A CRAK HEAD               34	25	(--)
127.	Samuel Lau (Calgary, Alberta)   33	25	(--)
Comfortably Numb                33	25	(--)
Reksa fans of Oulu              33	25	(--)
Gail Hiebert                    33	25	(--)
gee man                         33	25	(--)
But Wait Theres more            33	25	(--)
marcs maulers                   33	25	(--)
Danielle Leblanc                33	25	(--)
Bobby Schmautz Fan Club         33	25	(--)
Ottawa Bearcats                 33	25	(--)
Boops Bets                      33	25	(--)
triple X                        33	25	(--)
Timo Ojala                      33	25	(--)
Flying pigs                     33	25	(--)
141.	The Eradicators                 32	25	(--)
Van Isle Colonists              32	25	(--)
Commitments                     32	25	(--)
bure's blur                     32	25	(--)
Great Scott                     32	25	(--)
weasels                         32	25	(--)
Tequila Shooters                32	25	(--)
Whiters                         32	25	(--)
Frasses Faceplants              32	25	(--)
High Stickers                   32	25	(--)
Mak Paranjape                   32	25	(--)
Lord Stanley's Favourites       32	25	(--)
San Jose Mahi Mahi              32	25	(--)
Oz                              32	25	(--)
E.I.S                           32	25	(--)
Mann Mariners                   32	24	(--)
JFZ Dream Team                  32	25	(--)
Stacey Ross                     32	25	(--)
Louisiana Psycho Killers        32	25	(--)
La Coupe Stainless              32	25	(--)
161.	fighting amish                  31	25	(--)
Evan Pritchard                  31	25	(--)
Stanias Stars                   31	25	(--)
Pens Dynasty                    31	25	(--)
oceanweavers                    31	25	(--)
go go gagit                     31	25	(--)
Myllypuro Hedgehogs             31	25	(--)
Arm & Hammer                    31	25	(--)
Legzryx                         31	25	(--)
Chapman Chaps                   31	25	(--)
Dean Martin                     31	25	(--)
Cherry Bombers                  31	25	(--)
173.	Sluggo's Hosers                 30	25	(--)
Anson Mak                       30	25	(--)
Knights on a Power Play         30	25	(--)
176.	Canuck Force                    29	25	(--)
butt ends                       29	25	(--)
beam team                       29	25	(--)
JUKURIT                         29	25	(--)
Chapman Sticks                  29	25	(--)
Ken De Cruyenaere               29	25	(--)
gax goons                       29	25	(--)
Tampere Salami                  29	25	(--)
Sparky's Select                 29	25	(--)
185.	Hillside Raiders                28	25	(--)
Eldoret Elephants               28	25	(--)
Jane's World                    28	25	(--)
the ALarmers                    28	25	(--)
189.	Rolaids Required                27	25	(--)
Chip n Dale                     27	25	(--)
Brian Bergman                   27	25	(--)
192.	Killer Kings                    26	25	(--)
Montys Nords                    26	25	(--)
194.	Arsenal Maple Leafs             25	18	(--)
Martin's Gag                    25	25	(--)
196.	Equipe Du Jour                  24	25	(--)
197.	lisa's luggers                  23	25	(--)
--
Andrew Scott                    | andrew@idacom.hp.com
HP IDACOM Telecom Operation     | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253
During the Roman Era, 28 was considered old...
From: plarsen@sanjuan (P Allen Larsen)
Subject: Re: Canada 3 Sweden 1 at the World Champioships
Nntp-Posting-Host: sanjuan.uvic.ca
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria B.C. CANADA
Lines: 16
In article <20APR199319243244@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca> white@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca (Take me Baby!) writes:
>
>	Today at the World Championships in Munich, Canada scored an
>impressive 3-1 victory over the defending World Champs, Sweden.
I believe that was 4-1.  Rod Brind-Amour scored at 19.59 of the third.
>
>Kevin White
>white@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P. Allen Larsen                                           University of Victoria
plarsen@sanjuan.uvic.ca
From: randolin@polisci.umn.edu (Robert Andolina)
Subject: minnesota scene
Nntp-Posting-Host: psci7.polisci.umn.edu
Organization: Department of Political Science, University of Minnesota
Lines: 39
To those who are wondering what is happening in Minnesota:
From what I have seen in the local news (TV and newspaper), various people
in the area are trying to get a new hockey team.  A columnist for the St.
Paul "Pioneer Press" wrote an article giving the "inside scoop" on the
issue.  There are three local sites competing for a team and three possible
candiates to move to the Twin Cities.  First the sites: Target Center, Civic
Center (St. Paul), and yes, even the Met Center.  The columnist was pretty
confident that Minnesota will get a team, and that the Target Center will
ultimately win out.  He argued, however, that the competition from the other
two sites will delay the process considerably.  Without the
inter-site competition, the columnist (sorry, I can't remember his name)
believes that Minnesota would have a team by the 1994-95 season.  Also,
because of the situation with the Timberwolves, things will be delayed
until (unless) the city of Minneapolis takes over the Target Center.
However, they are unlikely to do so until the Met Center is destroyed,
because the city will lose money if there is competition from the Met for
conventions and short-term events (even with hockey at Target).  To add to
this mess, a STUDY (6 to 12 months) is going to be conducted on the future
viability of the Met Center, which obviously delays the process even
further.  I hope that the study is cancelled, which will have the effect of
knocking the Met Center out of the running and perhaps encouraging
Minneapolis to take over the Target Center sooner. The city would be
be even more encourged if the wrecking ball is taken to the Met,
which may happen.
Regarding possible candidates, the three teams are
Hartford, Tampa Bay, and New Jersey.  I would prefer the Devils (Minnesota "
Ice Demons?") although the Lightning may have potential.  Although it hasn't
been announced yet, it looks like 6 neutral site games will be played at the
Target Center next year.  Apparently the Devils are interested in playing in
as many of those six games as possible, and I wouldn't be surprised to see
Hartford and Tampa show up there either.	So, Minnesota may end up
getting another team, but it may take a few years.
Go Sabres!
Robert Andolina (former Buffalonian living in Minneapolis)
randolin@polisci.umn.edu
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Aargh! Great Hockey Coverage!! (Devils)
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Lines: 37
Robbie Po <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) says:
>>>
>>>I mean that the original poster was looking for a Devils victory
>>>on the tape delay, and it didn't happen in game 1.
>>
>>I was the original poster, and it was just a complaint about the
>>coverage (meaningless Yankee game before playoff Devils game).
>
>Oh!  I apologize then...I misinterpreted you!
No problem, no offence taken ...
>Of all the teams in the Patrick, I least dislike the Devils.
It is sad, just as a lover of the sport, that this team can be in
the metro New York area for over a decade and still exist as just
a non-entity ...
>How is ESPN's coverage anyways??? I think it starts tonight.
We're getting the Sabres-Bruins as the replacement game (and probably
so are you) while the Devils-Penguins game is played on SCNY and the
Islanders-Caps are the overflow game on the SCA (SCNY Plus).  If the
Sabres-Bruins ends early then we'll go to the Devils-Penguins game
(assuming that ESPN follows their previous patterns; we got the last
minute of the Islanders-Rangers and all of the overtime two weeks
ago).  ESPN's coverage started last night, by accident, but as one
or more other writers have pointed out, they could've gone to wild
hog wrestling for the evening instead ...
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Schedule...
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Lines: 40
mre@teal.Eng.Sun.COM (Mike Eisler) writes:
>gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>>I can't believe that ESPN is making SportsChannel America look good.
>
>But only in NY,NJ, Philadelphia, and Chicago. Everywhere else, the only
>reason SportsChannel was available was for local baseball broadcasts.
Yes, a point well-taken ... however, even in areas that finally got
some games, there's something nagging in the back of your skull when
the network that has the national rights in its pocket says on its
sports news, "There's an awesome overtime going on in Quebec City,
and we'll *try* to get you an update through the show ..." when you
know that it's on a satellite's feedhorn somewhere up there ...
>If people want hockey on TV, they should watch hockey on TV. I bet
>the ratings for hockey on Sunday on ABC went into the toilet.
From today's Times, ABC got great ratings in Chicago and St. Louis (a
4.2), and the Kings-Flames got a 2.9 on the West Coast, but only a 2.2
in metro New York (i.e., the Devils squandered their newfound support
from a year ago when they played the Rangers )-;).  In comparison,
Seniors Golf did better ...
>Next week, there will be far fewer ABC affiliates with hockey.
I fear that the overall national numbers will not be so great ...
I can't tell if ABC did any advance marketing or not, 'cos I don't
watch much TV ... the NHL should have made sure that it was solid
on cable before going on the air.  Even ESPN could've sold second
rights to third party systems (i.e., non-SportsChannel) since they
are not making any extra money by sitting on the games ... hockey
fans will not necessarily be watching pre-season beach volleyball
if playoffs games aren't being shown somewhere ...
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: ching@bigwpi.WPI.EDU ("The Logistician")
Subject: #77's?
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Lines: 11
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu
I am in need of all of the players wearing #77 in the NHL.  I know now only
of one, Ray Borque for the Bruins.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanx.
--
------------------------THE LOGISTICIAN REIGNS SUPREME!!!----------------------
|									      |
|   GO BLUE!!!   GO TIGERS!!!   GO PISTONS!!!   GO LIONS!!!   GO RED WINGS!!! |
-------------------------------ching@wpi.wpi.edu-------------------------------
From: kozloce@wkuvx1.bitnet
Subject: Re: Thumbs up to ESPN
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY
Lines: 12
I agree. It was great for the ESPN people to show the Detroit game. (My
roommate just about sh*t when they threw the octopus on the ice. (Thanks
for explaining the significance of that BTW)) The only problem I had was
when they blotted out the local commentators with the baseball ads and
music. Especially when the wings player hit the rut and went into the
boards injuring his shoulder and they blotted out the injury report. Other
then that, hats off to ESPN. Now if they'll only make a habit of this. Yeah
right! Baseball seasons started (Zzzzzz.....) =)
KOZ
LETS GO CAPS!!
From: kozloce@wkuvx1.bitnet
Subject: Re: Atlanta Hockey Hell!!DIR
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY
Lines: 18
> Someone give SportChannel a call (or maybe Ted Turner).
> Wasn't USA network covering the playoffs years ago?
>
> Jim G.
Oh to be back in the good old days when I lived in Florida (Florida for
Petes sake!!) and could watch hockey every night as ESPN and USA alternated
coverage nights. Oh well I guess it would be too simple for the home office
to look back into their past to solve a problem in the present...
Of course I shouldn't complain. At least I'm getting to watch the playoffs
for a change. (Hooray!!) Now if the ESPN schedulers will realise there are
other teams except Pittsberg in the Patrick. (Sounds like a Dr Suess Book
=)
KOZ
LETS GO CAPS!!
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: If You Were Pat Burns ...
Keywords: Leaf Wings
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 14
In article <C5suH3.3q0@tsegw.tse.com> mhembruc@tsegw.tse.com (Mattias Hembruch) writes:
>>hell is Anderson?  Anderson can (in days past) get under peoples
>>skin.  Put a little more bluntly, Anderson has to be an asshole.
>>He used to be good at it.  We need him now.
>
>Agreed. Anderson was nowhere last night.
>
Well what do you expect...Burns was playing him with Krushelnyski
and Baumgartner...Anderson is a finisher...unless you play him with
someone to can get him the puck in a finishing position...he ain't
going to do much scoring!
Gerald
From: c115110@cs.UAlberta.CA (Keith Scott Alan)
Subject: Hockey coverage
Nntp-Posting-Host: assn011.cs.ualberta.ca
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Lines: 15
This is a general question for US readers:
How extensive is the playoff coverage down there?  In Canada, it is almost
impossible not to watch a series on TV (ie the only two series I have not had
an opportunity to watch this year are Wash-NYI and Chi-Stl, the latter because
I'm in the wrong time zone!).  We (in Canada) are basically swamped with
coverage, and I wonder how many series/games are televised nationally or even
locally in the US and how much precedence they take over, say, local news if
the games go into double-OT.
Email me so as not to waste bandwidth, please.  My news feed is kind of slow
anyways.
l8tr
From: vergolin@haydn.lbs.msu.edu (David Vergolini)
Subject: Probert and Wendall
Organization: Michigan State University
Lines: 6
NNTP-Posting-Host: haydn.lbs.msu.edu
Summary: I believe that game two of the DEt/Tor series will be rougher
Keywords: Fight will break out
Game two of the Detroit - Toronto series will be a rougher game.  I believe
that Clark will be coming out hitting on all cylindars.  I believe that Probert
will take exception to this and a fight between Clark and Probert will result.
I know this sounds kind of ridiculous, but I know game two Toronto will come
out hitting.
Any takers on this issue?
From: grogers@slacvx.slac.stanford.edu (Greg Rogers)
Subject: Hey, What about teh Cannucks?
Reply-To: grogers@slacvx.slac.stanford.edu (Greg Rogers)
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Lines: 13
Hi all,
Due to living in the Bay Area, I as unable to see Vancouver's victory over
the Jets last night.  I know the score, but that rarely describes the game.
Could someone please post a brief sonapsis (sp?) of waht happened.  How well
did each team play?  Were the cannucks deserving of the victory?
Also, could some kind soul please email me the end of season, individual
player stats?
Greg
-- Vancouver for the cup (in a virtual reality)--
From: dvb@ssd.kodak.com (Dave Blaszyk)
Subject: Re: If You Were Pat Burns ...
Organization: Eastman Kodak Company, Rochester NY
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Lines: 30
Jason Cockroft (jake@rambler.Eng.Sun.COM) wrote:
: What are the Leafs to do?  I am a Leaf supporter and
: I say the Leafs are going down in four unless there
: is nothing short of a miracle or a stroke of genenius hits
Root for another team. ;-)
: Andreychuck and Borchevsky have no business playing against
: the Wings.  They are too small.  The key to any Leafs success
: will have to be Clark.  He is the only centre who can have
..
Andreychuk, is NOT small, slow and sloth-like, maybe, but he is
about 6'4" and that is not what I would consider as small.
As an aside, The big AndreyCHUNK as I call him has been known to
disappear come playoff time.  This was one of his main problems when
playing for Buffalo.
: GO LEAFS !!!
GO SABRES !!!
--
/-//   \\-\Dave Blaszyk	e-mail	: dvb@snowmass.ssd.kodak.com
/-//\   /\\-\(716) 253-7953  mail	: Eastman Kodak
///d// \\v// \\b\\\   		  C Plant, Bldg. 10 MC 39011
\\\//   \//   \\///			  Rochester, New York 14620
From: un026300@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Subject: Re: How to beat the Pens
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing
Lines: 6
You can't.  But good luck trying.
Jim
From: ayari@judikael.loria.fr (Ayari Iskander)
Subject: Re: How to beat Pittsburgh!
Organization: Crin - Inria-Lorraine
Lines: 55
In article <1993Apr15.214902.3372@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu>, apanjabi@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
|> In article <AfnKOVK00UhB01RDtJ@andrew.cmu.edu>, Robert Angelo Pleshar <rp16+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|> > 	<kfnJYea00Uh_I1VmUs@andrew.cmu.edu>
|> > NNTP-Posting-Host: po5.andrew.cmu.edu
|> > In-Reply-To: <kfnJYea00Uh_I1VmUs@andrew.cmu.edu>
|> >
|> > from Anna Matyas:
|> >>>Now if we could just clone Chelios's personality and transplant it
|> >>>into all of the defensemen on the Islanders, Capitals, and Devils...
|> >>>
|> >>>Gerald
|> >>
|> >>In other words, you want to turn them all into assholes so they
|> >>will spend lots of time in the penalty box and get lots of
|> >>misconducts?
|> >>
|> >>And this comes from a Chelios fan...
|> >
|> > Yeah, and also be second in the team in scoring and play about 35
|> > minutes a game and play on the power play and kill penalties and be the
|> > best defenseman in the league. I'd take a whole team of Chelioses if I
|> > could. (That way, when one got a penalty the others could kill it!)
|> >
|> > Ralph
|>
|> >HOW TO BEAT PITTSBURGH???
|>
|> 	I.Mario Lemieux
|> 		A.Death
|> 			1.Too much Kimo
|> 			2.Slash to skull
|> 			3.Ask the Rangers (Slashing his wrist????)
|> 	II.Jaromir Jagr
|> 		A.Deportation
|> 			1.Send him back to whatever Commie country
|> 			  he's from
|> 			2.Tell him that Bill Clinton is going too
|> 	III.Kevin Stevens
|> 		A.Fighting
|> 			1.Call Bob Probert
|> 			2.Call Tie Domi
|> 			3.Call my grandmother (She'd kick his ass)
|>
Since everybody wants to see Pittsburgh players not playing, the
Stanley cup would be devaluated.
--
_____________________________________________________
Iskander AYARI
Email : Iskander.Ayari@loria.fr ou ayari@loria.fr
_____________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Smiths birthday goal was LEAFS GO ALL THE WAY !!!
From: caldwell8102@mtroyal.ab.ca
Organization: Mount Royal College, Calgary, Alberta
Lines: 28
In article <C4wty9.40u@mcs.anl.gov>, mwm@aps.anl.gov (Michael W. McDowell) writes:
> In article 5KL@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca, kwk2chow@descartes.uwaterloo.ca (KEVIN C.) writes:
>> (Thanks for the goals by Steve Smith)
> I don't see why more people don't blame grant fuhr for the goal that smith
> put in his own net, it's common to play the puck back to your own goalie when
> deep in your own end and under little or no pressure from the offensive team.
> If fuhr had been in position the puck would have never crossed the line.
From this account, it doesn't sound like you even saw the goal, Mike. Smith
came out from behind his own net and fired a breakout pass that hit Fuhr in the
back of the leg. Fuhr was backing up at the time and never saw what
happened. The puck went straight off Fuhr's leg and into the net. Fuhr never
had a chance. There was no play back to the goaltender, in fact Perry Berezan
of Calgary had just dumped it in and Smith was retrieving it.
It was unfortunate that it happened; Smith is a nice guy and was only a rookie
at the time, and on his birthday too. But all the blame lies with him. Starting
in pee-wee coaches tell players never to make a cross-ice pass in front of
their own net. Too much chance of having it intercepted, or hitting the
goaltender, or whatever.
And to the people who say that Smith cost the Oilers the series, I can only
say that he certainly didn't cause the team to lose the other three games.
There was no reason for a powerhouse team like Edmonton to be tied late
in the third period of the 7th game of the second round. Everybody on the team
has to take responsibility for them even being in that situation.
Alan
Subject: Re: Potvin's new goalie mask
From: caldwell8102@mtroyal.ab.ca
Organization: Mount Royal College, Calgary, Alberta
Lines: 24
In article <allan.734333484@swanlake>, allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan) writes:
> slegge@kean.ucs.mun.ca writes:
>
>>I was wtahcing RIGHT GUARD HOCKEY WEEK on TSN yesterday and they had
>>a feature on this guy that does a lot (most?) of the masks for NHL
>>goalies.  They talked about how they are made, what they are made of,
>>and the designs that are put on them, etc.
>
>>The best one of all was one he never talked about, he just held it up.
>>It has the current Leafs crest on the chin and an awesome looking
>>black panther on the forehead -- it *has* to be a new mask for Felix
>>Potvin, but he never said whose it was.
>
> Are you sure this program was current? I know that Grant Fuhr
> had a black panther on the forehead of his mask when he played with
> the Leafs.
It would seem logical that the mask is Potvins. His nickname is "The Cat",
which would go a long ways towards explaining the panther.
Of course, it could be an old story and the mask is Fuhrs, too.....
Alan
From: v103r4g8@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (We will NOT cave in....GODS OF WAR, Def Leppard)
Subject: HELP HELP HELP
Organization: University at Buffalo
Lines: 11
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
Does anyone have the NHL STANDINGS for March 28th? I need them IMMEDIATELY
for a project. Please post or email. THANKS.
*************************************************************************
Andy Hillery --- School Of Architecture
State University of New York at Buffalo
*************************************************************************
From: schock@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Craig Schock)
Subject: Re: Smiths birthday goal was LEAFS GO ALL THE WAY !!!
Organization: University of Calgary Computer Science
Lines: 26
In article <C5JunA.4vH@cpsc.ucalgary.ca> layfield@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Colin Layfield) writes:
>In article <C4wty9.40u@mcs.anl.gov> mwm@aps.anl.gov writes:
>>In article 5KL@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca, kwk2chow@descartes.uwaterloo.ca (KEVIN C.) writes:
>>> (Thanks for the goals by Steve Smith)
>>I don't see why more people don't blame grant fuhr for the goal that smith
>>put in his own net, it's common to play the puck back to your own goalie when
>>deep in your own end and under little or no pressure from the offensive team.
>>If fuhr had been in position the puck would have never crossed the line.
>>
>>Mike McDowell
>
>I have to disagree with you on this one.  It is anything BUT common.  In the
>4 or 5 years I have been watching hockey I have NEVER seen this happen EVER.
>
>I am not sure what league you have been watching.  :-)
>
>Anyone else agree with this?
Yes, Colin... I have to agree with you here...  I've put the puck in
my own net the same way Smith did... (only once, mind you :-) and it
was definitely my fault.  It is NOT a common play to play the puck the
way that Smith did.
Luckily, for me...  when I did it... it was only a scrimmage :-)
Craig
From: jca2@cec1.wustl.edu (Joseph Charles Achkar)
Subject: Blues into playoffs, beat TB 6-5
Keywords: Blues, Shanahan, Joseph, Hull, Minnesota, TB
Nntp-Posting-Host: cec1
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Lines: 127
By Dave Luecking Of The Post-Dispatch Staff
At 9:11 Thursday night, the scoreboard watchers at The Arena began to cheer.
Their cheer quickly turned into a roar, and finally, the sellout crowd of
17,816 rose as one to rock the old barn at 5700 Oakland Avenue in a salute to
the playoff-bound Blues.
The scoreboard had just flashed the news from Detroit -- Red Wings 5, Stars 3.
With the North Stars' loss, the Blues officially clinched fourth place and the
final playoff spot in the Norris Division. Good thing, because the Blues quit
playing.
They held a 5-1 lead over Tampa Bay when the Detroit-Minnesota final appeared
with 3 minutes 52 remaining in the second period. They promptly went to sleep
and barely held on for a 6-5 victory that nearly slipped away at the buzzer.
Tampa's Bob Beers tipped in a pass from Shawn Chambers, but officiating
supervisor John D'Amico and video goal judge Rich Schweigler ruled that the
shot had gone into the net after time had expired.
``I'm glad I didn't see it go in at the end," Blues coach Bob Berry said.
If the goal had counted, he'd have been more upset than he was by the Blues'
disappearance in the final 24 minutes. Holding on for the victory and making
the playoffs tempered Berry's anger.
``It wasn't pretty at the end," he said. ``We played 36, 37 great minutes, as
good as we played all year. It slipped away at the end. It shouldn't have, but
it did."
Still, the Blues won, prompting another ovation from the crowd at game's end.
Despite their shoddy effort in the third period and all the turmoil this
season, the Blues still made the playoffs. They'll meet the Chicago Blackhawks
in a best-of-seven Norris Division semifinal, beginning at noon Sunday at
Chicago Stadium.
The Blues finished the regular-season with a record of 37-36-11 for 85 points,
their fourth consecutive plus-.500 season. Minnesota finished three points
behind in fifth place, with a record of 36-38- 10 for 82 points. Tampa Bay,
which played spoiler last week by tying the Blues 2-2 at Tampa, ended its
first season with a record of 23-54-7 for 53 points.
The poor finish cast an unnecessary shadow over what should have been a joyous
Blues locker room. Instead, the mood was one of relief and some disappointment.
``It's a shame we let down," said Kevin Miller, one of three Blues to score
two goals. Brendan Shanahan and Bob Bassen were the others.
``There was no need for a letdown. If we'd have kept working, it would have
ended 6-2 and everyone would be happy."
Instead, a lot of players were happy just to make the playoffs.
``We won, and that's all that matters," said Brett Hull, scoreless and minus-3
for the night. ``Once we got up 4-0, it was really tough to play."
Some players didn't have a problem.
``Just because the score was announced, our line didn't quit," said Rich
Sutter, who played with Bassen and Miller. ``We still had a game to play. You
can't allow five goals like we did, that's not right.
``It was disappointing to see what was going on."
Bassen was almost frantic on the bench because of the Blues' effort. Somehow,
he missed the announcement of Minnesota's loss.
``I didn't know it was final," he said. ``I was kind of looking around on the
bench. I didn't realize it was a final for some reason. We're in the playoffs,
and that's great, but it's a little disappointing to play like we did at the
end."
The letdown was precisely the reason that Berry had instructed the scoreboard
operators to keep the Minnesota-Detroit score off of the board. The score
showed 0-0 until it first popped up with Detroit leading 4-2 in the third
period. The Blues already led 4-0 at the time.
``I told them I didn't want to see the score, I didn't want to know the score,"
Berry said. ``I felt we had to win the game, and that's the approach we took."
If Minnesota took a lead, Berry feared, the pressure of having to win might
bother the Blues. If Detroit led, he worried, the Blues might quit.
Until the announcement, the Blues played splendidly. Shanahan got the crowd
going at 10:44 of the first period, scoring his 50th of the season. Then,
Miller and Bassen took charge late in the period.
With the teams playing four on four, Miller broke in on left wing, deked
defenseman Roman Hamrlik and beat former Blues goalie Pat Jablonski with the
rebound of his own shot with 21.6 seconds remaining in the period.
Then, just 10.5 seconds later, Bassen rifled a long slap shot past Jablonski
after defenseman Rick Zombo intercepted a Tampa pass in the neutral zone.
Bassen made it 4-0 just 14 seconds into the second period, scoring on the
rebound of Bret Hedican's shot. The goal gave him his first two-goal game of
the season and reminded him of a special friend.
Last year, Bassen befriended young Oliver Mulvihill, who died of a rare form
of cancer at age 6 on Feb. 23.
``I was thinking of my buddy Oliver," Bassen said. ``He's in heaven now, and
I know he was watching. I know he's happy."
Miller increased the Blues lead to 5-0 on a break-away goal set up by Zombo
at 11:09. Then, Steve Maltais broke Curtis Joseph's shutout just 18 seconds
later, making it 5-1.
Less than a minute after the North Stars' final was announced, Tim Bergland
scored and cut the lead to 5-2. But Shanahan scored his 51st, converting a pass
from Nelson Emerson with 21.3 seconds remaining in the  second period.
Then, it was all Lightning. Adam Creighton scored 40 seconds into the third
period, prompting Berry to rest the overworked Joseph. Guy Hebert allowed goals
to Shawn Chambers and Danton Cole in a span of 1:21 midway through the third
period.
The goals by Chambers and Cole made Shanahan's second goal stand up as the
winner. ``We were in there," Shanahan said. ``The game was over. We were in."
%*%*%*%**%*%%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*
*   __  ______________         ____________________________________    %
%   \ \_)____________/         A L L E Z   L E S   B L U E S  ! ! !    *
*    \    __________/          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    %
%     \    ________/                                                   *
*      \   _______/                  Joe Ashkar                        %
%       \  \                         Contact for the Blues             *
*        \  \  SAINT LOUIS           jca2@cec1.wustl.edu               %
%        (___)             BLUES                                       *
*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%
From: bks2@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (bryan.k.strouse)
Subject: NHL RESULTS FOR GAMES PLAYED 4-14-93
Organization: AT&T
Keywords: wednesday night's boxscores
Lines: 138
NHL RESULTS FOR GAMES PLAYED 4/14/93.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STANDINGS
PATRICK              ADAMS              NORRIS              SMYTHE
TM    W  L  T  PT   TM    W  L  T  PT   TM    W  L  T  PT   TM    W  L  T  PT
xPIT  56 21  7 119  xBOS  51 26  7 109  xCHI  46 25 12 104  xVAN  45 29  9  99
yWAS  42 34  7  91  yQUE  47 27 10 104  yDET  46 28  9 101  yCAL  42 30 11  95
yNJ   40 36  7  87  yMON  48 30  6 102  yTOR  44 28 11  99  yLA   39 34 10  88
yNYI  39 37  7  85  yBUF  38 35 10  86   STL  36 36 11  83  yWIN  39 37  7  85
PHL  34 37 11  79   HAR  26 51  6  58   MIN  36 37 10  82   EDM  26 49  8  60
NYR  34 38 11  79   OTT  10 70  4  24   TB   23 53  7  53   SJ   11 70  2  24
x - Clinched Division Title
y - Clinched Playoff Berth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boston Bruins    (51-26-7)   2   2   0   -   4
Ottawa Senators  (10-70-4)   0   1   1   -   2
1st period: BOS, Roberts 5 - (Juneau) 7:19
BOS, Wiemer 1 - (Juneau, Oates) 17:47
2nd period: BOS, Neely 11 - (Juneau, Murphy) 6:10
BOS, Hughes 5 - (Richer, Kimble) 7:55
OTT, Archibald 9 - (Rumble, Lamb) 11:37
3rd period: OTT, Boschman 9 - (Kudelski) 5:10
Powerplay Opportunities-Bruins   0 of 2
Senators 0 of 4
Shots on Goal-	Bruins    13  11  10  -  34
Senators   5   9  12  -  26
Boston Bruins--Moog (36-14-3) (8 shots - 8 saves)  Blue (9:38 second)
(18 shots - 16 saves)
Ottawa Senators--Sidorkiewicz (8-46-3) (27 shots - 23 saves)  Berthiaume
(6:36 third) (7 shots - 7 saves)
ATT-10,500
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Washington Capitals   (42-34-7)   0   0   2   -   2
New York Rangers     (34-38-11)   0   0   0   -   0
1st period: NONE
2nd period: NONE
3rd period: WAS, Bondra 36 - (Pivonka, Cavallini) 6:54
WAS, Bondra 37 - (Cote, Pivonka) 10:10
Powerplay Opportunities-Capitals 0 of 2
Rangers  0 of 1
Shots on Goal-	Capitals  16  11  12  -  39
Rangers    8   7   8  -  23
Washington Capitals--Tabaracci (7-11-0) (23 shots - 23 saves)
New York Rangers--Richter (13-17-3) (39 shots - 37 saves)
ATT-17,897
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New York Islanders  (39-37-7)   2   1   1   0   -   4
Hartford Whalers    (26-51-6)   2   1   1   1   -   5
1st period: NYI, Ferraro 13 - (Malakhov, King) 1:29
NYI, Hogue 32 - (Thomas, Turgeon) 1:57
HAR, Yake 21 - (Poulin) 4:15
HAR, Yake 22 - (Nylander, Poulin) 16:44
2nd period: HAR, Verbeek 39 - (Cassels, Weinrich) (pp) 2:43
NYI, Thomas 35 - (King, Ferraro) 7:58
3rd period: HAR, Burt 5 - (Sanderson, Cassels) 13:41
NYI, Malakhov 14 - (Hogue) 17:45
Overtime:   HAR, Janssens 12 - (Poulin) 1:08
Powerplay Opportunities-Islanders 0 of 3
Whalers   1 of 3
Shots on Goal-	Islanders  16   8   7   1  -  32
Whalers     7  13   7   1  -  28
New York Islanders--Fitzpatrick (16-15-5) (28 shots - 23 saves)
Hartford Whalers--Lenaduzzi (1-0-1) (32 shots - 28 saves)
ATT-10,915
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pittsburgh Penguins  (56-21-7)   2   3   1   0   -   6
New Jersey Devils    (40-36-7)   2   4   0   0   -   6
1st period: PIT, Daniels 5 - (Needham, Tippett) 4:14
NJD, C.Lemieux 29 - (Semak, Driver) 10:19
PIT, K.Stevens 55 - (Tocchet, Murphy) (pp) 12:40
NJD, Zelepukin 22 - (Driver, Niedermayer) 17:26
2nd period: PIT, M.Lemieux 68 - (Stevens, Tocchet) 1:42
NJD, Semak 36 - (C.Lemieux, Zelepukin) 2:27
PIT, McEachern 28 - (Jagr, Barrasso) 4:24
NJD, S.Stevens 12 - (Guerin, Pellerin) 5:45
PIT, M.Lemieux 69 - (sh) 12:40
NJD, Richer 37 - (Nicholls) 15:53
NJD, C.Lemieux 30 - (Semak, Zelepukin) 17:40
3rd period: PIT, Mullen 33 - (Jagr, M.Lemieux) 18:54
Overtime:   NONE
Powerplay Opportunities-Penguins 1 of 5
Devils   0 of 3
Shots on Goal-	Penguins   9  11   8   2  -  30
Devils    12  15   9   3  -  39
Pittsburgh Penguins--Barrasso (43-14-5) (39 shots - 33 saves)
New Jersey Devils--Billington (21-14-4) (30 shots - 24 saves)
ATT-14,796
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\|||||/
-SPIKE-
From: layfield@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Colin Layfield)
Subject: Re: Smiths birthday goal was LEAFS GO ALL THE WAY !!!
Organization: University of Calgary Computer Science
Lines: 23
In article <C4wty9.40u@mcs.anl.gov> mwm@aps.anl.gov writes:
>In article 5KL@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca, kwk2chow@descartes.uwaterloo.ca (KEVIN C.) writes:
>> (Thanks for the goals by Steve Smith)
>I don't see why more people don't blame grant fuhr for the goal that smith
>put in his own net, it's common to play the puck back to your own goalie when
>deep in your own end and under little or no pressure from the offensive team.
>If fuhr had been in position the puck would have never crossed the line.
>
>Mike McDowell
I have to disagree with you on this one.  It is anything BUT common.  In the
4 or 5 years I have been watching hockey I have NEVER seen this happen EVER.
I am not sure what league you have been watching.  :-)
Anyone else agree with this?
Colin Layfield            | "Religion and Sex are power plays,
|  Manipulate the people for the money they pay,
The University of Calgary |  Selling Skin, Selling God
Computer Science          |  The numbers look the same on their CREDIT CARDS!"
layfield@cpsc.ucalgary.ca |                          - Queensryche
From: jpc@philabs.philips.com (John P. Curcio)
Subject: Re: European expansion and our f*cked system
Originator: jpc@condor
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff, NY 10510
Lines: 29
|> How long would they support teams that are run on Ranger-based
|> corporate thinking (I use the term lightly).  (We don't need a good
|> product because these duffuses in NYC would fill the arena for Ottawa's
|> record every year......1940!! haha (sorry, had ta say it)).
Look how long the Maple Leafs and Nordiques used similar logic....  Not that
they fielded bad teams solely to field bad teams, but the Maple Leafs (and a
certain dead man who was in charge) were one of the cheapest teams in the
history of the sport.  Guess what-- they were immensely popular at the
gate.  The Nordiques have also done well for a team that had missed the
playoffs so many years in a row.
|> Look at British (or any European) soccer as an example (they never have fan
|> problems).
Ha!  Such humor!  They have MAJOR fan problems, namely that on occasion some of
them don't make it home from the match!  The soccer fans tend to be fanatical,
much like the Montreal fans who firebomb the players and coaches houses when
they play pathetically.
-JPC
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John P. Curcio 		          Go Bruins!		   Philips Laboratories
jpc@philabs.philips.com 			           345 Scarborough Road
(914) 945-6442               	 		     Briarcliff Manor, NY 10510
From: jpc@philabs.philips.com (John P. Curcio)
Subject: Re: TV Schedule for Next Week
Originator: jpc@condor
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff, NY 10510
Distribution: na
Lines: 23
In article <Apr16.043426.69352@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, mmb@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Michael Burger) writes:
|> United States TV Schedule:
|> April 18   Devils/Islanders at Pittsburgh   1 EST  ABC  (to Eastern time zone)
|> April 18   St. Louis at Chicago             12 CDT ABC  (to Cent/Mou time zones)
|> April 18   Los Angeles at Calgary           12 PDT ABC  (to Pacific time zone)
|> April 20   Devils/Islanders at Pittsburgh   7:30   ESPN
|> April 22   TBA                              7:30   ESPN
|> April 24   TBA                              7:30   ESPN
Does anyone know if there will be alternate games in cities where local
broadcast rights are being protected?  I'd really love to see the Bruins a
couple times, and with this pro-Patrick bias shown by ESPN something tells me
that I will have to wait until the conference finals to see them :-}.
-JPC
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John P. Curcio 		          Go Bruins!		   Philips Laboratories
jpc@philabs.philips.com 			           345 Scarborough Road
(914) 945-6442               	 		     Briarcliff Manor, NY 10510
From: saz@hook.corp.mot.com (Scott Zabolotzky)
Subject: Re: the hawks WILL return to the finals!!!!!
Organization: Motorola, Inc.
Nntp-Posting-Host: 129.188.122.164
Lines: 24
In article <1qk0k4$itg@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> cubrj@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Brian Johnson) writes:
>Well now that the hawks have won the division the road is a little
>easier for the playoffs. Let toronto and detroit beat the hell out of
>each other while Chicago sweeps st.louis. That just makes it easier in
>the second round with all the rest they will get and tor/det getting
>none. For the conf. champ they will have a hard time versus the division
>but that div. will be pretty battered also so the advantage goes to the
>Hawks again. Then bring pitt. and sure the Hawks will probably lose but
>its better to get that far and lose than to not go.
>
>brian
>
Hopefully, a miracle (o.k. not quite a miracle, but close!) will occur and
Pittsburgh will be elminated prior to the finals.  If they make it again,
they will probably keep the Cup.  If they don't, it's the Hawks' turn!
GO BLACKHAWKS!!
CONGRATS TO JEREMY ROENICK FOR BEING ONLY THE 2ND HAWKS PLAYER TO POST
BACK TO BACK 50 GOAL SEASONS!!
Scott
From: jca2@cec1.wustl.edu (Joseph Charles Achkar)
Subject: Re: the hawks WILL return to the finals!!!!!
Nntp-Posting-Host: cec1
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Lines: 22
In article <1qk0k4$itg@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> cubrj@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Brian Johnson) writes:
>Well now that the hawks have won the division the road is a little
>easier for the playoffs. Let toronto and detroit beat the hell out of
>each other while Chicago sweeps st.louis. That just makes it easier in
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>brian
>
Don't be so sure, the Blues played the Hawks pretty well this season,
and won twice at the Stadium. The Blues will give the Hawks a hard time.
This series is one of the best first round matchups, could go either way.
The Hawks will probably prevail in seven games.
%*%*%*%**%*%%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*
*   __  ______________         ____________________________________    %
%   \ \_)____________/         A L L E Z   L E S   B L U E S  ! ! !    *
*    \    __________/          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    %
%     \    ________/                                                   *
*      \   _______/                  Joe Ashkar                        %
%       \  \                         Contact for the Blues             *
*        \  \  SAINT LOUIS           jca2@cec1.wustl.edu               %
%        (___)             BLUES                                       *
*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%*%
From: c5ff@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (COOK  Charlie)
Subject: NHL Summary parse results for games played Thur, April 15, 1993
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Lines: 278
Philadelphia                     1 2 4--7
Buffalo                          0 3 1--4
First period
1, Philadelphia, Recchi 52 (Galley, Lindros) 0:18.
Second period
2, Philadelphia, Hawgood 11 (Dineen, Eklund) pp, 2:15.
3, Philadelphia, Dineen 33 (McGill) sh, 5:40.
4, Buffalo, Barnaby 1 (Hawerchuk, Smehlik) pp, 7:48.
5, Buffalo, Wood 18 (LaFontaine, Ledyard) pp, 17:34.
6, Buffalo, Mogilny 75 (Hawerchuk, Carney) pp, 18:56.
Third period
7, Philadelphia, Eklund 11 (Dineen, Beranek) 4:42.
8, Buffalo, Mogilny 76 (Errey, LaFontaine) 5:24.
9, Philadelphia, Dineen 34 (Brind'Amour) pp, 6:44.
10, Philadelphia, Dineen 35 (Brind'Amour, Galley) sh, 8:39.
11, Philadelphia, Acton 8 (Dineen, Brind'Amour) 19:48.
Philadelphia: 7    Power play: 5-2   Special goals:  pp: 2  sh: 2  Total: 4
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Acton              1    0    1
Beranek            0    1    1
Brind'Amour        0    3    3
Dineen             3    3    6
Eklund             1    1    2
Galley             0    2    2
Hawgood            1    0    1
Lindros            0    1    1
McGill             0    1    1
Recchi             1    0    1
Buffalo: 4    Power play: 10-3
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Barnaby            1    0    1
Carney             0    1    1
Errey              0    1    1
Hawerchuk          0    2    2
LaFontaine         0    2    2
Ledyard            0    1    1
Mogilny            2    0    2
Smehlik            0    1    1
Wood               1    0    1
-----------------------------------------
Minnesota                        1 1 1--3
Detroit                          0 2 3--5
First period
1, Minnesota, McPhee 18 (Ludwig) 1:23.
Second period
2, Minnesota, Dahlen 34 (Courtnall, Gagner) pp, 0:31.
3, Detroit, Drake 18 (Howe, Ogrodnick) 9:14.
4, Detroit, Ysebaert 34 (Lidstrom, Howe) pp, 17:37.
Third period
5, Detroit, Ciccarelli 41 (Coffey, Chiasson) pp, 0:32.
6, Detroit, Kennedy 19 (Burr, Probert) 3:42.
7, Detroit, Yzerman 58 (Ciccarelli, Gallant) 6:17.
8, Minnesota, Dahlen 35 (Courtnall, Gagner) 19:11.
Detroit: 5    Power play: 4-2
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Burr               0    1    1
Chiasson           0    1    1
Ciccarelli         1    1    2
Coffey             0    1    1
Drake              1    0    1
Gallant            0    1    1
Howe               0    2    2
Kennedy            1    0    1
Lidstrom           0    1    1
Ogrodnick          0    1    1
Probert            0    1    1
Ysebaert           1    0    1
Yzerman            1    0    1
Minnesota: 3    Power play: 2-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Courtnall          0    2    2
Dahlen             2    0    2
Gagner             0    2    2
Ludwig             0    1    1
McPhee             1    0    1
-----------------------------------------
Edmonton                         0 0 0--0
Winnipeg                         1 2 0--3
First period
1, Winnipeg, Shannon 20 (Steen, Davydov) pp, 2:08.
Second period
2, Winnipeg, Selanne 76 (Olausson) 5:25.
3, Winnipeg, Zhamnov 25 (Selanne) 19:42.
Third period
No scoring.
Winnipeg: 3    Power play: 6-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Davydov            0    1    1
Olausson           0    1    1
Selanne            1    1    2
Shannon            1    0    1
Steen              0    1    1
Zhamnov            1    0    1
Edmonton: 0    Power play: 3-0
No scoring
-----------------------------------------
Toronto                          1 1 0--2
Chicago                          0 2 1--3
First period
1, Toronto, Baumgartner 1 (unassisted) 18:40.
Second period
2, Chicago, Roenick 50 (Murphy, Chelios) 1:29.
3, Toronto, Andreychuk 55 (Mironov, Lefebvre) 13:22.
4, Chicago, Murphy 7 (Roenick, Chelios) pp, 19:05.
Third period
5, Chicago, Matteau 15 (unassisted) 10:51.
Error: Power play goal mismatch. Assuming calc value.
Error: Team: Toronto  Calc: 0  Read: 1
Chicago: 3    Power play: 7-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Chelios            0    2    2
Matteau            1    0    1
Murphy             1    1    2
Roenick            1    1    2
Toronto: 2    Power play: 3-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Andreychuk         1    0    1
Baumgartner        1    0    1
Lefebvre           0    1    1
Mironov            0    1    1
-----------------------------------------
First period
1, St Louis, Shanahan 50 (Brown, Felsner) 10:44.
2, St Louis, Miller 23 (Bassen, Brown) 19:38.
3, St Louis, Bassen 8 (Zombo) 19:48.
Second period
4, St Louis, Bassen 9 (Hedican, Miller) 0:14.
5, St Louis, Miller 24 (Zombo, Hedican) 11:09.
6, Tampa Bay, Maltais 7(Hamrlik) 11:27.
7, Tampa Bay, Bergland 3 (Hervey, Gilhen) 17:16.
8, St Louis, Shanahan 51 (Emerson) 19:38.
Third period
9, Tampa Bay, Creighton 19 (Bergland, Bergevin) 0:40.
10, Tampa Bay, Chambers 10 (Zamuner, Cole) 10:37.
11, Tampa Bay, Cole 12 (Beers, Bradley) 11:58.
St Louis: 6    Power play: 4-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Bassen             2    1    3
Brown              0    2    2
Emerson            0    1    1
Felsner            0    1    1
Hedican            0    2    2
Miller             2    1    3
Shanahan           2    0    2
Zombo              0    2    2
Tampa Bay: 5    Power play: 3-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Beers              0    1    1
Bergevin           0    1    1
Bergland           1    1    2
Bradley            0    1    1
Chambers           1    0    1
Cole               1    1    2
Creighton          1    0    1
Gilhen             0    1    1
Hamrlik            0    1    1
Hervey             0    1    1
Maltais            1    0    1
Zamuner            0    1    1
-----------------------------------------
San Jose                         0 1 2--3
Calgary                          0 4 3--7
First period
No scoring.
Second period
1, San Jose, Garpenlov 22 (Odgers, Gaudreau) pp, 3:37.
2, Calgary, Nieuwendyk 38 (MacInnis, Suter) pp, 5:26.
3, Calgary, Ranheim 21 (Otto, Suter) 10:43.
4, Calgary, Yawney 1 (Nieuwendyk, Roberts) 11:26.
5, Calgary, Berube 4 (Paslawski, Skrudland) 13:45.
Third period
6, San Jose, Wood 1 (Odgers, Kisio) 8:00.
7, Calgary, Reichel 40 (unassisted) 9:26.
8, Calgary, Roberts 38 (Musil, Paslawski) pp, 12:27.
9, San Jose, Kisio 26 (unassisted) 13:10.
10, Calgary, Paslawski 18 (Ashton, Stern) 16:16.
Calgary: 7    Power play: 4-2
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Ashton             0    1    1
Berube             1    0    1
MacInnis           0    1    1
Musil              0    1    1
Nieuwendyk         1    1    2
Otto               0    1    1
Paslawski          1    2    3
Ranheim            1    0    1
Reichel            1    0    1
Roberts            1    1    2
Skrudland          0    1    1
Stern              0    1    1
Suter              0    2    2
Yawney             1    0    1
San Jose: 3    Power play: 3-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Garpenlov          1    0    1
Gaudreau           0    1    1
Kisio              1    1    2
Odgers             0    2    2
Wood               1    0    1
-----------------------------------------
Vancouver                        1 2 5--8
Los Angeles                      2 3 1--6
First period
1, Los Angeles, Robitaille 63 (Gretzky, Sandstrom) 1:39.
2, Vancouver, Babych 3 (Craven, Nedved) pp, 9:43.
3, Los Angeles, Sandstrom 25 (Gretzky, Robitaille) 10:06.
Second period
4, Vancouver, Linden 32 (Ronning, Courtnall) pp, 0:54.
5, Vancouver, Ward 22 (Hunter, Nedved) 1:24.
6, Los Angeles, Gretzky 16 (Sandstrom, Robitaille) 6:57.
7, Los Angeles, Zhitnik 12 (Kurri, Robitaille) pp, 14:02.
8, Los Angeles, Millen 23 (Hardy) pp, 16:57.
Third period
9, Vancouver, Ronning 27 (Dirk) 5:28.
10, Vancouver, Ronning 28 (Courtnall, Linden) pp, 11:15.
11, Vancouver, Linden 33 (Courtnall, Ronning) 11:27.
12, Los Angeles, Donnelly 29 (Millen, Granato) pp, 14:35.
13, Vancouver, Courtnall 31 (Ronning, Ratushny) 14:54.
14, Vancouver, Ronning 29 (Linden, Diduck) en, 18:47.
Vancouver: 8    Power play: 6-3   Special goals:  pp: 3  en: 1  Total: 4
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Babych             1    0    1
Courtnall          1    3    4
Craven             0    1    1
Diduck             0    1    1
Dirk               0    1    1
Hunter             0    1    1
Linden             2    2    4
Nedved             0    2    2
Ratushny           0    1    1
Ronning            3    3    6
Ward               1    0    1
Los Angeles: 6    Power play: 10-3
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Donnelly           1    0    1
Granato            0    1    1
Gretzky            1    2    3
Hardy              0    1    1
Kurri              0    1    1
Millen             1    1    2
Robitaille         1    3    4
Sandstrom          1    2    3
Zhitnik            1    0    1
-----------------------------------------
From: gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak)
Subject: Goalie Mask Update
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 29
Here are the results after three days of voting. Remember 3pts for
1st, 2 for 2nd, and 1 for 3rd. Also, you can still turn in votes! And.. if
the guy isn't a regular goalie or he is retired, please include the team!
Thanks for your time, and keep on sending in those votes!
Player                  Team                  Pts     Votes
-----------------------------------------------------------
1. Brian Hayward        San Jose              15        6
Andy Moog            Boston                15        6
3. Curtis Joseph        St. Louis             11        5
4. Ed Belfour           Chicago               10        5
5. Gerry Cheevers       Boston (retired)       5        3
Manon Rheaume        Atlanta (IHL)          5        2
Ron Hextall          Quebec                 5        2
8. Don Beaupre          Washington             4        2
-----------------------------------------------------------
Others receiving 1 vote: Artus Irbe (SJ), Tim Cheveldae (Det),
Clint Malarchuck (Buf/SD,IHL), Grant Fuhr (Buf), Rick Wamsley
(Tor,ret), Jon Casey (Minn), John Vanbiesbrouck (NYR),
Ken Dryden (Mon,ret), Bob Essensa (Win), Mike Vernon (Cal),
Glenn Healy (NYI), Tommy Soderstron (???), Ray LeBlanc (USA).
--
GO SKINS!    ||"Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite
GO BRAVES!   ||   an effect on you?" - Mike Patton, Faith No More
GO HORNETS!  ||
GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu
From: farenebt@logic.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy)
Subject: AHL Calder Cup Playoff schedule and results
Organization: Clarkson University
Lines: 61
Nntp-Posting-Host: logic.clarkson.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
1993 CALDER CUP PLAYOFF SCHEDULE AND RESULTS
home team in CAPS		*=if necesary
=============================================
FIRST ROUND
Springfield Indians vs Providence Bruins
Gm 1:	Springfield 3	PROVIDENCE 2
Gm 2:	Springfield 5	PROVIDENCE 4
Gm 3:	4/16	Providence at Springfield
CD Islanders vs Adirondack Red Wings
Gm 1:	Last night, CDI at Adirondack
Gm 2:	4/17	CDI at Adirondack
Gm 3:	4/18	Adirondack at CDI
Gm 4:	4/21	Adirondack at CDI
Gm 5:	4/23	CDI at Adirondack	*
Gm 6:	4/24	Adirondack at CDI	*
Gm 7:	4/26	CDI at Adirondack	*
Baltimore Skipjacks at Binghamton Rangers
Gm 1:	4/16	Baltimore at Binghamton
Gm 2:	4/17	Baltimore at Binghamton
Gm 3:	4/23	Binghamton at Baltimore
Gm 4:	4/24	Binghamton at Baltimore
Gm 5:	4/26	Baltimore at Binghamton	*
Gm 6:	4/28	Binghmaton at Baltimore	*
Gm 7:	4/30	Baltimore at Binghamton	*
Utica Devils vs Rochester Americans
Gm 1:	4/16	Utica at Rochester
Gm 2:	4/17	Utica at Rochester
Gm 3:	4/20	Rochester at Utica
Gm 4:	4/22	Rochester at Utica
Gm 5:	4/24	Utica at Rochester	*
Gm 6:	4/26	Rochester at Utica	*
Gm 7:	4/28	Utica at Rochester	*
Moncton Hawks vs St John's Maple Leafs
Gm 1:	St John's 4	Moncton 2
Gm 2:	4/17	Moncton vs St John's at Halifax
Gm 3:	4/21	St John's at Moncton
Cape Breton Oilers vs Fredericton Canadiens
Gm 1:	Fredericton 4	Cape Breton 3	(2OT)
Gm 2:	4/16	Cape Breton at Fredericton
Unfortunately the newspaper didnt list complete playoff skeds for
series that already began. Also, the paper has not listed final
standings so their posting might be delayed until early next
week (Hockey News).
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Bri Farenell			farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu   +
+ AHL and ECAC contact for rec.sport.hockey		Go USA Hockey!	   +
+ Adirondack Red Wings, Calder Cup Champs: '81  '86  '89  '92	   +
+ Clarkson Hockey, ECAC Tournament Champs: '66  '91  '93		   +
+ Glens Falls High Hockey, NY Division II State Champs: '90  '91       +
+ AHL fans: join the AHL mailing list: ahl-news-request@andrew.cmu.edu +
+ CONGRATS TO THE BOSTON BRUINS, 1992-93 ADAMS DIVISION CHAMPIONS      +
+ PHOENIX SUNS, 1992-93 PACIFIC DIVISION CHAMPIONS			   +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: bdown@vis.toronto.edu (Brian Down)
Subject: Re: Bridgman is out
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Lines: 31
slacelle@gandalf.ca (Stephane Lacelle) writes:
>The Ottwawa Senators fired Mel Bridgman at 1:00 PM today.
>Randy Sexton is gonna replace him.
Trashy move from a trashy organization. After the front
office stated that nobody would lose their job over the
Sens. poor performance, Bridgeman is gone within 24 hours
of the teams final game.
Yes...I know he screwed up letting the King's grab Loach.
Sexton's qualifications (aside from being cheap)??
- he played some US college hockey,
- he's pals with club president Bruce Firestone.
Just the kind of experience you need when trying to build
an expansion franchise. He'll probably be in the Hall of
Fame next year! :-)
This continues a tradition of front office gaffs:
- Paul Anka and the arena deal
- Denis Potvin and the GM postion
- Mike Bossy and the scoring coach.
How do people in Ottawa feel about how the club is being run??
>Stephane Lacelle
Brian Down (bdown@vis.toronto.edu)
From: klaty@atchafalaya.engin.umich.edu (Brad Alan Klaty)
Subject: Goalies
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Lines: 10
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: atchafalaya.engin.umich.edu
Originator: klaty@atchafalaya.engin.umich.edu
I've heard that you can score on Belfour by shooting high
because he goes down a lot, and on Potvin by shooting high
on him and then getting the rebound in because he plays so
deep in the net.  Any truth to these?
Brad
A Wings fan, but no predictions.
From: yatrou@INRS-Telecom.Uquebec.CA (Paul Yatrou)
Subject: Re: Stop predicting
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Montreal, Canada.
Lines: 22
In <1993Apr16.060010.10012@ncsu.edu> cdkaupan@eos.ncsu.edu (CARL DAVID KAUPANG) writes:
>It is really annoying to see all of these
>predictions on the Net.  Who really cares
>who you think will win?  Please stop with
>the predictions, we all know the Caps are
>going to win the Cup, so let it go at that.
>
>
>David Kaupang
>cdkaupan@eos.ncsu.edu
Yeah, but first they have to deal with the Devils,
who've had their number all year. I'm not saying
the Caps aren't a good team (they've been a thorn
on the Habs side for the past 10 years!!!), just
that they won't get past NJ...
Paul Yatrou
yatrou@inrs-telecom.uquebec.ca
(running my pool today, wish me luck!!!!!!!!!!!)
From: dwarf@bcarh601.bnr.ca (W. Jim Jordan)
Subject: Re: Truly a sad day for hockey
Nntp-Posting-Host: bcarh601
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 19
Farewell, Minnesota fans.  Get stuffed, Dallas Stars.
As the North Stars fade to black, I hope that Minneapolis/St. Paul are
not long without an NHL team.  It just seems "right" that the hotbed of
amateur hockey in the USA should have an NHL team as well.  The loss of
the team is certainly not the fault of the fans (though the start of the
1989-90 season made it look real bad for a while).
I wish now that I kept the North Stars cap I bought at Maple Leaf
Gardens the morning after they eliminated Montreal in 1980.  (I got it
to spite the Montreal fans in the small town where I grew up.)  What a
glorious season that was for the North Stars!
dwarf
--
W. Jim Jordan                           "I don't mean to tell you how to live
dwarf@x400gate.bnr.ca (Internet)         your life--that's what the TV's for--
I work for BNR; I do not speak for it.   but if I didn't believe in Jesus, I'd
be going to hell."      - Peter Heath
From: hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Valerie S. Hammerl)
Subject: Re: Goalie Mask Update
Organization: UB
Lines: 19
Nntp-Posting-Host: lictor.acsu.buffalo.edu
In article <93289@hydra.gatech.EDU> gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak) writes:
>
>	Here are the results after three days of voting. Remember 3pts for
>1st, 2 for 2nd, and 1 for 3rd. Also, you can still turn in votes! And.. if
>the guy isn't a regular goalie or he is retired, please include the team!
>Thanks for your time, and keep on sending in those votes!
> Glenn Healy (NYI), Tommy Soderstron (???), Ray LeBlanc (USA).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Soderstrom plays with Philly, but he doesn't have a moulded mask.
He's got the helmet and cage variety, in white.  Or at least that's
what he wore thirteen hours ago.
--
Valerie Hammerl			"Some days I have to remind him he's not
hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu	Mario Lemieux."  Herb Brooks on Claude
acscvjh@ubms.cc.buffalo.edu	Lemieux, top scorer for the Devils, but
v085pwwpz@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu  known for taking dumb penalties.
From: c5ff@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (COOK  Charlie)
Subject: Re: AHL Season in review (off ice stuff)
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Lines: 14
In article <1993Apr16.001323.10308@news.clarkson.edu> farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy) writes:
>==================================================
>SENATORS SOLD
<stuff deleted>
>
>The Senators are currently in serious negotiations with Charlottetown
>New Brunswick and are expected to move there.
>==================================================
It has been announced that the Senators will move their AHL franchise to
Charlottetown, P.E.I. (Prince Edward Island), not New Brunswick.
Charlie Cook
charlie@calvin.cs.unb.ca
From: yvon@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Yvon Lavoie)
Subject: Hot, Cold Streaks ???
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Lines: 14
Ok guys, I need a list of the teams who have been hot or cold during the
last 25 games.  Doesn't need to be accurate, a rough guess will do.  I'm
about to enter a playoff pool and I want to know who is hot going into
the playoffs.  Don't need to mention Pittsburgh.  They can't get any hotter
than they are now.
P.S. I need this by Sunday
Yvon Lavoie
From: farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy)
Subject: AHL playoff results (4/15)
Organization: Clarkson University
Lines: 70
Nntp-Posting-Host: craft.clarkson.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
GAME(S) OF 4/15
---------------
ADIRONDACK 6	CDI 2	(Adirondack leads series, 1-0)
=================================================
FIRST ROUND
Springfield Indians vs Providence Bruins
Gm 1:	Springfield 3	PROVIDENCE 2
Gm 2:	Springfield 5	PROVIDENCE 4
Gm 3:	4/16	Providence at Springfield
Gm 4:	4/17	Providence at Springfield
Gm 5:	4/22	Springfield at Providence	*
Gm 6:	4/24	Providence at Springfield	*
Gm 7:	4/27	Springfield at Providence	*
CD Islanders vs Adirondack Red Wings
Gm 1:	ADIRONDACK 6	CDI 2
Gm 2:	4/17	CDI at Adirondack
Gm 3:	4/18	Adirondack at CDI
Gm 4:	4/21	Adirondack at CDI
Gm 5:	4/23	CDI at Adirondack	*
Gm 6:	4/24	Adirondack at CDI	*
Gm 7:	4/26	CDI at Adirondack	*
Baltimore Skipjacks at Binghamton Rangers
Gm 1:	4/16	Baltimore at Binghamton
Gm 2:	4/17	Baltimore at Binghamton
Gm 3:	4/23	Binghamton at Baltimore
Gm 4:	4/24	Binghamton at Baltimore
Gm 5:	4/26	Baltimore at Binghamton	*
Gm 6:	4/28	Binghmaton at Baltimore	*
Gm 7:	4/30	Baltimore at Binghamton	*
Utica Devils vs Rochester Americans
Gm 1:	4/16	Utica at Rochester
Gm 2:	4/17	Utica at Rochester
Gm 3:	4/20	Rochester at Utica
Gm 4:	4/22	Rochester at Utica
Gm 5:	4/24	Utica at Rochester	*
Gm 6:	4/26	Rochester at Utica	*
Gm 7:	4/28	Utica at Rochester	*
Moncton Hawks vs St John's Maple Leafs
Gm 1:	St John's 4	Moncton 2
Gm 2:	4/17	Moncton vs St John's at Halifax
Gm 3:	4/21	St John's at Moncton
Gm 4:	4/23	St John's at Moncton
Gm 5:	4/26	Moncton vs St John's at Halifax	*
Gm 6:	4/28	St John's at Moncton		*
Gm 7:	4/30	Moncton vs St John's at Halifax	*
Cape Breton Oilers vs Fredericton Canadiens
Gm 1:	Fredericton 4	Cape Breton 3	(2OT)
Gm 2:	4/16	Cape Breton at Fredericton
Gm 3:	4/20	Fredericton at Cape Breton
Gm 4:	4/22	Fredericton at Cape Breton
Gm 5:	4/24	Cape Breton at Fredericton	*
Gm 6:	4/26	Fredericton at Cape Breton	*
Gm 7:	4/28	Cape Breton at Fredericton	*
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Bri Farenell			farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu   +
+ AHL and ECAC contact for rec.sport.hockey		Go USA Hockey!	   +
+ Adirondack Red Wings, Calder Cup Champs: '81  '86  '89  '92	   +
+ Clarkson Hockey, ECAC Tournament Champs: '66  '91  '93		   +
+ Glens Falls High Hockey, NY Division II State Champs: '90  '91       +
+ AHL fans: join the AHL mailing list: ahl-news-request@andrew.cmu.edu +
+ CONGRATS TO THE BOSTON BRUINS, 1992-93 ADAMS DIVISION CHAMPIONS      +
+ PHOENIX SUNS, 1992-93 PACIFIC DIVISION CHAMPIONS			   +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Nntp-Posting-Host: hudson.uvic.ca
Reply-To: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Lines: 23
In article 9088@blue.cis.pitt.edu, jrmst8+@pitt.edu (Joseph R Mcdonald) writes:
>Jagr has a higher +/-, but Francis has had more points.  And take it from
>an informed observer, Ronnie Francis has had a *much* better season than
>Jaromir Jagr.  This is not to take anything away from Jaro, who had a
>decent year (although it didn't live up to the expectations of some).
Bowman tended to overplay Francis at times because he is a Bowman-style
player.  He plays hard at all times, doesn't disregard his defensive
responsibilities and is a good leader.  Bowman rewarded him be increasing his
ice time.
Jagr can be very arrogant and juvenile and display a "me first" attitude.
This rubbed Bowman the wrong way and caused him to lose some ice time.
Throughout the year, Francis consistently recieved more ice time than
Jagr.  Althouhg I have never seen stats on this subject, I am pretty
sure that Jagr had more points per minute played that Francis.  When
you add to that Jagr's better +/- rating, I think it becomes evident
that Jagr had a better season- not that Francis had a bad one.
Gregmeister
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra)
Subject: Re: Goalie masks
Nntp-Posting-Host: stpl.ists.ca
Organization: Solar Terresterial Physics Laboratory, ISTS
Lines: 21
In article <120666@netnews.upenn.edu> kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller) writes:
>My vote goes to John Vanbiesbrouck.  His mask has a skyline of New York
>City, and on the sides there are a bunch of bees (Beezer).  It looks
>really sharp.
Funny you should mention this; one time on HNIC Don Cherry pointed out
Vanbiesbrouck's mask.  He _hated_ it.  I think he said something to the effect
of:
"You see?  He was great last year; now he goes out and gets that dopey mask
and he can't stop a beachball!"
You may or may not take Cherry seriously at all, but I cracked up when I heard
it.
I think Ed Belfour has the current best mask in the NHL btw.  I also like
Moog's, and I'll give Fuhr's new one an honourable mention, although I haven't
seen it closely yet (it looked good from a distance!).  What's also neat is
Chevaldae's in Detroit; they call him "Chevy" so he has two checkered flags
painted at the top as in an auto race.
From: drozinst@db.erau.edu (Drozinski Tim)
Subject: Re: Ulf and all...
Organization: Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, FL USA
Lines: 59
NNTP-Posting-Host: alpha.db.erau.edu
layfield@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Colin Layfield) writes:
>In article <1pdlksINNmq7@GIRAFFE.ZOO.CS.YALE.EDU> wuziyun%suned@cs.yale.edu (You wanna know?) writes:
>>
>>
>>Let me give my two cents worth in this whole thing:
>>
>>  I am very sick of Pittsburg fans(and they are my second favorite team)
>>talk about how " why can't Bruins forget about Ulf Samuelsson when we have
>>forgotten all about Adam Graves"  Beside the obvious fact that Lemeuix's career
>>was never endangered by Graves' slash while Neely is still bother by his injury,
>>I think the most important reason is:
>>
>>        ADAM GRAVES HAS PLAYED CLEAN HOCKEY EVER SINCE!  WHILE ULF SAMULESSON
>>        CONTINUES TO PLAY DIRTY(YES, TRYING TO HIT A PLAYER WHERE HE'S INJURED
>>        IS DIRTY).  FANS HAVE CAN FORGET ABOUT ONE DIRTY PLAY BUT HOW CAN YOU
>>        FORGET ABOUT ULF SAMULESSON WHEN EVERYNIGHT, WHEN I WATCH HOCKEY HIGH
>>        LIGHTS, I GET REMINDED OF HOW DIRTY HE IS.
>Hitting a player when he's injured is dirty?  Can you explain this statement?
>Do you mean a player who was just injured on the ice(?) or do you mean a player
>who is playing hurt.  If a player is hurt he should not bother playing because
>I don't belive ANY PLAYER should be let up on just because they are playing
>hurt.
>I'm not an Ulf fan but at least I can spot the fact he is like Calgary's
>Theoren Fleury in the respect that part of his game is to really piss other
>players off as that's part of his job (But he lacks Ulf's size!).
I AM an Ulf (and Pgh) fan, and what pisses me off about the whole Adam Graves/
Ulf Samuesson debate is that Ulf plays hard-hitting hockey (nothing wrong with
that) while Graves does what he does when the only way to win a game is to
intentionally hurt someone (which bites!).
>Players that REALLY piss me off are the ones who insist on hitting from behind
>or try to go for the knees to injure the players.  This kind of garbage has
>got to go (I would really like to see Muni get pasted as he is one of the
>worst offenders).
I thought they had instituted all kinds of new rules this season to stop crap
like that?!?  Is it just me, or does the officiating just still stink to high
heaven?  IMHO, if they could get rid of the existing refs, and institute a new
system with more than one ref on the ice to keep an eye on the trouble-makers
then a lot of these things would stop, and then the game would be ruled by the
finnesse players:  Mario, Selanne, Bure, Messier, et.al...
>Just my $0.02.
> Colin Layfield            | "Religion and Sex are power plays,
>                           |  Manipulate the people for the money they pay,
> The University of Calgary |  Selling Skin, Selling God
> Computer Science          |  The numbers look the same on their CREDIT CARDS!"
> layfield@cpsc.ucalgary.ca |                          - Queensryche
Tim Drozinski
Embry-Riddle Aero. Univ.
drozinst@erau.db.erau.edu
From: bks2@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (bryan.k.strouse)
Subject: NHL RESULTS FOR GAMES PLAYED 4-15-93
Organization: AT&T
Keywords: thursday night's boxscores
Lines: 227
NHL RESULTS FOR GAMES PLAYED 4/15/93.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STANDINGS
PATRICK              ADAMS              NORRIS              SMYTHE
TM    W  L  T  PT   TM    W  L  T  PT   TM    W  L  T  PT   TM    W  L  T  PT
xPIT  56 21  7 119  xBOS  51 26  7 109  xCHI  47 25 12 106  xVAN  46 29  9 101
yWAS  42 34  7  91  yQUE  47 27 10 104  yDET  47 28  9 103  yCAL  43 30 11  97
yNJ   40 36  7  87  yMON  48 30  6 102  yTOR  44 29 11  99  yLA   39 35 10  88
yNYI  39 37  7  85  yBUF  38 36 10  86  ySTL  37 36 11  85  yWIN  40 37  7  87
PHL  35 37 11  81   HAR  26 51  6  58   MIN  36 38 10  82   EDM  26 50  8  60
NYR  34 38 11  79   OTT  10 70  4  24   TB   23 54  7  53   SJ   11 71  2  24
x - Clinched Division Title
y - Clinched Playoff Berth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minnesota North Stars  (36-38-10)   1   1   1   -   3
Detroit Red Wings       (47-28-9)   0   2   3   -   5
1st period: MIN, McPhee 18 - (Ludwig) 1:23
2nd period: MIN, Dahlen 34 - (Courtnall, Gagner) (pp) 0:31
DET, Drake 18 - (Howe, Ogrodnick) 9:14
DET, Ysebaert 34 - (Lidstrom, Howe) (pp) 17:37
3rd period: DET, Ciccarelli 41 - (Coffey, Chiasson) (pp) 0:32
DET, Kennedy 19 - (Burr, Probert) 3:42
DET, Yzerman 58 - (Ciccarelli, Gallant) 6:17
MIN, Dahlen 35 - (Courtnall, Gagner) 19:11
Powerplay Opportunities-North Stars 1 of 2
Red Wings   2 of 4
Shots on GOal-	North Stars  10   9  11  -  30
Red Wings     6  15   8  -  29
Minnesota North Stars--Casey (26-26-5) (29 shots - 24 saves)
Detroit Red Wings--Cheveldae (34-24-7) (30 shots - 27 saves)
ATT-19,749
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philadelphia Flyers  (35-37-11)   1   2   4   -   7
Buffalo Sabres       (38-36-10)   0   3   1   -   4
1st period: PHL, Recchi 52 - (Galley, Lindros) 0:18
2nd period: PHL, Hawgood 11 - (Dineen, Eklund) (pp) 2:15
PHL, Dineen 33 - (McGill) (sh) 5:40
BUF, Barnaby 1 - (Hawerchuk, Smehlik) (pp) 7:48
BUF, Wood 18 - (LaFontaine, Ledyard) (pp) 17:34
BUF, Mogilny 75 - (Hawerchuk, Carney) (pp) 18:56
3rd period: PHL, Eklund 11 - (Dineen, Beranek) 4:42
BUF, Mogilny 76 - (Errey, LaFontaine) 5:24
PHL, Dineen 34 - (Brind'Amour) (pp) 6:44
PHL, Dineen 35 - (Brind'Amour, Galley) (sh) 8:39
PHL, Acton 8 - (Dineen, Brind'Amour) 19:48
Powerplay Opportunities-Flyers 2 of  5
Sabres 3 of 10
SHots on Goal-	Flyers   6   7  13  -  26
Sabres   8  19  18  -  45
Philadelphia Flyers--Soderstrom (20-17-6) (45 shots - 41 saves)
Buffalo Sabres--Fuhr (10 shots - 7 saves)  Hasek (11-10-4) (5:40 second)
(16 shots - 12 saves)
ATT-15,042
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edmonton Oilers  (26-50-8)   0   0   0   -   0
Winnipeg Jets    (40-37-7)   1   2   0   -   3
1st period: WIN, Shannon 20 - (Steen, Davydov) (pp) 2:08
2nd period: WIN, Selanne 76 - (Olausson) 5:25
WIN, Zhamnov 25 - (Selanne) 19:42
3rd period: NONE
Powerplay Opportunities-Oilers 0 of 3
Jets   1 of 6
SHots on GOal-	Oilers   7   8  16  -  31
Jets    10  16  16  -  42
Edmonton Oilers--Ranford (17-38-6) (42 shots - 39 saves)
Winnipeg Jets--Essensa (33-26-6) (31 shots - 31 saves)
ATT-12,229
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Toronto Maple Leafs  (44-29-11)   1   1   0   -   2
Chicago BlackHawks   (47-25-12)   0   2   1   -   3
1st period: TOR, Baumgartner 1 - 18:40
2nd period: CHI, Roenick 50 - (Murphy, Chelios) 1:29
TOR, Andreychuk 55 - (Mironov, Lefebvre) 13:22
CHI, Murphy 7 - (Roenick, Chelios) (pp) 19:05
3rd period: CHI, Matteau 15 - 10:51
Powerplay Opportunities-Maple Leafs 1 of 3
BlackHawks  1 of 7
Shots on Goal-	Maple Leafs  14   4   8  -  26
BlackHawks   10  13  13  -  36
Toronto Maple Leafs--Potvin (25-15-7) (36 shots - 33 saves)
Chicago BlackHawks--Belfour (41-18-11) (26 shots - 24 saves)
ATT-17,856
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tampa Bay Lightning   (23-54-7)   0   2   3   -   5
St. Louis Blues      (37-36-11)   3   3   0   -   6
1st period: STL, Shanahan 50 - (Brown, Felsner) 10:44
STL, Miller 23 - (Bassen, Brown) 19:38
STL, Bassen 8 - (Zombo) 19:48
2nd period: STL, Bassen 9 - (Hedican, Miller) 0:14
STL, Miller 24 - (Zombo, Hedican) 11:09
TBL, Maltais 7 - (Hamrlik) 11:27
TBL, Bergland 3 - (Harvey, Gilhen) 17:16
TBL, Shanahan 51 - (Emerson) 19:38
3rd period: TBL, Creighton 19 - (Bergland, Bergevin) 0:40
TBL, Chambers 10 - (Zamuner, Cole) 10:37
TBL, Cole 12 - (Beers, Bradley) 11:58
Powerplay Opportunities-Lightning 0 of 3
Blues     0 of 4
SHots on GOal-	Lightning   5  12  14  -  31
Blues      11  11   4  -  26
Tampa Bay Lightning--Jablonski (8-24-4) (22 shots - 16 saves)  Bergeron (0:00
third) (4 shots - 4 saves)
St. Louis Blues--Joseph (29-28-9) (18 shots - 15 saves)  Hebert (19:20 third)
(13 shots - 11 saves)
ATT-17,816
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
San Jose Sharks   (11-71-2)   0   1   2   -   3
Calgary Flames   (43-30-11)   0   4   3   -   7
1st period: NONE
2nd period: SJS, Garpenlov 22 - (Odgers, Gaudreau) (pp) 3:37
CAL, Nieuwendyk 38 - (MacInnis, Suter) (pp) 5:26
CAL, Ranheim 21 - (Otto, Suter) 10:43
CAL, Yawney 1 - (Nieuwendyk, Roberts) 11:26
CAL, Berube 4 - (Paslawski, Skrudland) 13:45
3rd period: SJS, Wood 1 - (Odgers, Kisio) 8:00
CAL, Reichel 40 - 9:26
CAL, Roberts 38 - (Musil, Paslawski) (pp) 12:27
SJS, Kisio 26 - 13:10
CAL, Paslawski 18 - (Ashton, Stern) 16:16
Powerplay Opportunities-Sharks 1 of 3
Flames 2 of 4
Shots on Goal-	Sharks   5  11   9  -  25
Flames  11  14   7  -  32
San Jose Sharks--Irbe (7-25-0) (32 shots - 25 saves)
Calgary Flames--Vernon (29-26-9) (25 shots - 22 saves)
ATT-19,532
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vancouver Canucks   (46-29-9)   1   2   5   -   8
Los Angeles Kings  (39-35-10)   2   3   1   -   6
1st period: LAK, Robitaille 63 - (Gretzky, Sandstrom) 1:39
VAN, Babych 3 - (Craven, Nedved) (pp) 9:43
LAK, Sandstrom 25 - (Gretzky, Robitaille) 10:06
2nd period: VAN, Linden 32 - (Ronning, Courtnall) (pp) 0:54
VAN, Ward 22 - (Hunter, Nedved) 1:24
LAK, Gretzky 16 - (Sandstrom, Robitaille) 6:57
LAK, Zhitnik 12 - (Kurri, Robitaille) (pp) 14:02
LAK, Millen 23 - (Hardy) (pp) 16:57
3rd period: VAN, Ronning 27 - (Dirk) 5:28
VAN, Ronning 28 - (Courtnall, Linden) (pp) 11:15
VAN, Linden 33 - (Courtnall, Ronning) 11:27
LAK, Donnelly 29 - (Millen, Granato) (pp) 14:35
VAN, Courtnall 31 - (Ronning, Ratushny) 14:54
VAN, Ronning 29 - (Linden, Diduck) (en) 18:47
Powerplay Opportunities-Canucks 3 of  6
Kings   3 of 10
Shots on Goal-	Canucks   8   6  16  -  30
Kings    10  21  10  -  41
Vanocuver Canucks--Whitmore (18-8-4) (41 shots - 35 saves)
Los Angeles Kings--Stauber (23 shots - 17 saves)  Hrudey (17-21-6) (11:27
third) (6 shots - 5 saves)
ATT-16,005
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\|||||/
-SPIKE-
From: Anna Matyas <am2x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Truly a sad day for hockey
Organization: H&SS Dean's Office, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 21
NNTP-Posting-Host: andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <1993Apr16.031823.11861@news.stolaf.edu>
Joel Alvstad writes:
>A fine 26 year history came to a close tonight, as the Minnesota North Stars,
>or Norm's Stars (whichever you prefer) lost to the Red Wings by a score of
>5-3.  The Stars goals were scored by Mike McPhee and Ulf Dahlen, who netted
>two including the final one in franchise history, with less than a minute to
>play.
This is very sad indeed.  My condolences to the Minnesota fans who are
losing their team.
I fear that within the next decade or so the only professional sports team
left in Pittsburgh will be the Steelers.
We should always enjoy things when we can.  You never know when they'll
be taken away from us.
Mom.
From: twork@egr.msu.edu (Michael Twork)
Subject: Re: Thumbs up to ESPN
Organization: Michigan State University
Lines: 6
Reply-To: twork@egr.msu.edu (Michael Twork)
NNTP-Posting-Host: frith.egr.msu.edu
istribution:
Originator: twork@frith.egr.msu.edu
>Especially when the wings player hit the rut and went into the
boards injuring his shoulder and they blotted out the injury report.
The Wings player was Yves Racine, and he returned later in that same period.
Mike
From: cs902043@ariel.yorku.ca (SHAWN LUDDINGTON)
Subject: Re: 1993 NHL Draft
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Lines: 51
In article <93109.134719IO91748@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Jon Carr <IO91748@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>When is the draft this year?  And will there be any coverage?
>I know the upcomming NFL draft is on ESPN.
>
>Anyone got the details?
>
>Paul Kariya 1993 #1 Pick! (No. 2 perhaps?  He won't last long!) :-)
>
I don't know the exact coverage in the states.  In Canada it is covered
by TSN, so maybe ESPN will grab their coverage!  I don't know!
As for the picks
Ottawa picks #1 which means it is almost 100% that Alexander Daigle will
go #1. He'll either stay or be traded in Montreal or Quebec.  IMO I would
take Kariya.  He should alot of leadership in the NCAA and so far in
the World Championships.  Daigle didn't show this for his junior team.
San Jose will then get Kariya.
Tampa Bay will either go for a russian Kozlov (I think that's it) or a
defenseman Rob Niedemeyer (probably spelt the last name wrong)
Because of expansion I won't go further but I will name other of the
blue chip prospects
- Chris Gratton
- Chris Pridham
- a swedish player who I can't remember his name
Draft Order
-----------
1) Ottawa
2) San Jose
3) Tampa Bay
4) South Florida or Anahiem
5) South Florida or Anahiem
6) Hartford
7) Edmonton
8) Dallas
9) NY Rangers
10) Philadelphia
the 8th thru 10th picks could be wrong - I don't have the standings here
and am guessing
(In my mind there are 8 top notch prospects in the draft, with Kariya
leading the way but not going #1)
Shawn - GO CAPS (two first round picks for the next three years - THANKS
ST.LOUIS or should I say RON CARON and SCOTT STEVENS)
From: gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak)
Subject: Re: LIST OF TEE TIMES AT METROPOLITAN TORONTO GOLF COURSES FOR MONDAY
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 14
In article <1993Apr20.194441.23595@julian.uwo.ca> lee139@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Steve Lee) writes:
>Woops!  This is rec.sport.hockey! Not rec.sport.golf!  Hope you check the
>newsgroup header next time before posting!
Duh! He was making a joke about how long the Leafs would last in the
playoffs. (Y'know, hit the courses in the off season). Sheesh... People are
so quick to complain...
--
GO SKINS!    ||"Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite
GO BRAVES!   ||   an effect on you?" - Mike Patton, Faith No More
GO HORNETS!  ||
GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu
From: gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak)
Subject: Re: NHLPA poll (partial stats/results)
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 21
In article <1993Apr20.124012.3383@mtroyal.ab.ca> caldwell8102@mtroyal.ab.ca writes:
>>All these people who send in their polls should take a closer look at
>>NJD, they are a very deep team, with two very capable goalies, and
>>excellent forwards and defensemen.  Shooter in Richer, an all around do
>>it all in Todd, chef Stasny-master of a thousand dishes, power play
>Kevin Todd is an Oiler and has been one for months. How closely do you follow
>the Devils, anyway? Jeez....
Sigh.
This was written about the game NHLPA Hockey '93. Which does not
have precise up-to-date rosters. Why don't people think before they post?
Jeez...
--
GO SKINS!    ||"Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite
GO BRAVES!   ||   an effect on you?" - Mike Patton, Faith No More
GO HORNETS!  ||
GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu
From: umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Daryl Turner)
Subject: Re: NHL Team Captains
Nntp-Posting-Host: ccu.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Lines: 30
In article <1993Apr20.113953.18879@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> leunggm@odin.control.utoronto.ca (Gary Leung) writes:
>In article <1993Apr20.151818.4319@samba.oit.unc.edu> Scott.Marks@launchpad.unc.edu (Scott Marks) writes:
>>>And of course, Mike Ramsey was (at one time) the captain in Buffalo prior to
>>>being traded to Pittsburgh.  Currently, the Penguins have 3 former captains
>>>and 1 real captain (Lemieux) playing for them.  They rotate the A's during the
>>>season (and even the C while Mario was out).  Even Troy Loney has worn the C
>>>for the Pens.
>>
>
>I think that Mike Foligno was the captain of the Sabres when he
>got traded to the Leafs. Also, wasn't Rick Vaive the captain of
>the Leafs when he got traded to Chicago (with Steve Thomas for
>Ed Olcyzk and someone). Speaking of the Leafs, I believe that
>Darryl Sittler was their captain (he'd torn the "C" off his
>jersey but I think he re-claimed the captaincy later on) when he
>was traded to the Flyers.
>
>Oh yeah, of course, Gretzky was the captain of the Oilers before
>he was traded wasn't he?
Dale Hawerchuk and Troy Murray were both captains of the Jets
when they were traded.  (Murray this year in mid-season, Hawerchuk
a few years ago in the off-season.)
Daryl Turner : r.s.h contact for the Winnipeg Jets
Internet: umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca
FidoNET: 1:348/701 -or- 1:348/4  (please route through 348/700)
Tkachuk over to Zhamnov, up to Sel{nne, he shoots, he scores!
The Jets win the Cup!  The Jets win the Cup!
Essensa for Vezina!  Housley for Norris!  Sel{nne for Calder!
From: htilney@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: Bruins - Klingon Connection?
Organization: Clark University
Lines: 7
I was wondering if any Star Trek TNG fans in this newsgroup knew of a
possible relationship between the Bruins' players Douris & Moog and the
Klingon names Duras and Worf (Son of Moog). I suppose it's a coincidence.
Just curious,
Bart
From: cdash@moet.cs.colorado.edu (Charles Shub)
Subject: Thumbs WAY WAY WAY DOWN to ESPN
Keywords: Baseball, goddamn Baseball
Nntp-Posting-Host: moet.cs.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado at Colorado Springs
Lines: 12
Tuesday, and the isles/caps game is going into overtime.
what does ESPN do.....
Tom Mees says,  "we are obligated to bring you baseball"
I hate to say this, but last year the coverage of the playoffs on
sports channel america (out in colorado) was vastly superior
to what espn is giving us this year.
--
charlie shub  cdash@cs.Colorado.EDU       -or-         (719) 593-3492
on leave at the University of Iowa  cdash@cs.uiowa.edu (319) 335-0739
From: Patrick Walker <F1HH@UNB.CA>
Subject: Red Wings Goespel...
Lines: 19
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Detroit's going to beat Toronto in 6 or LESS!!!
Granted, Gilmour should get the Hart Trophy, NOT Lemieux... Just
Look at what Gilmour did for Toronto.  When you think of Toronto,
who comes to mind, Gilmour, Andreychuk, Potvin...ah...did I mentio
n Gilmour?
Back to Detroit...  There really isn't a team that could stand up
to them if all the players on the team play to their potential,
no one could stop them.  Yzerman, Fedorov, Coffey, Lindstrom...
there's more firepower there than Pittsburgh... and they don't tri
p over their own skates!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
/------------/ Detroit over Toronto in 5     Patrick Walker
/ /--\------/   Detroit over Chicago in 6     University of New Bruns.
! !  !---/      Detroit over Vancouver in 6   Canada
\ \__/ /        Detroit over Nords in 6       "Disco Still Sucks!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mre@teal.Eng.Sun.COM (Mike Eisler)
Subject: Re: Panther's President
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mountain View, CA  USA
Lines: 27
NNTP-Posting-Host: teal
In article <1993Apr20.180241.10263@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>The San Jose Sharks and Ottawa Senators are each on their second GM
>already...I'd be willing to wager that both the Sharks and Senators
>will probably see their 3rd GM's and perhaps their 4th, before we
>see the Panthers second.
Actually, fired-coach George Kingston was a third of the GM
triumvirate.  Now that the trio is now duo (Dean Lombardi and Chuck
Grillo), the Sharks are already on their 3rd "office of the GM". And a
4th is likely to happen before September; they'll either add the new
coach to the OofGM, or name a single GM. So your wager should be
amended to read that Sharks are likely to have their 5th GM before the
Panther's get their 2nd. Can't wait to see how the next season's NHL
Guide and Record Book lists the GM history of the Sharks.
Given the depth of next year's draft, the expansion draft rules, and
the reputation of their GMs, Anaheim and Miami look pretty good as the
first 90s expansion teams to win a Cup.  San Jose and Ottawa have
instability at the GM position, something that Philly, NYI, Edmonton,
and Calgary did not have when they won their first Cups. Pittsburgh
did, but they needed a quarter century.
--
Mike Eisler, mre@Eng.Sun.Com  ``Not only are they [Leafs] the best team, but
their fans are even more intelligent and insightful than Pittsburgh's.  Their
players are mighty bright, too.  I mean, he really *was* going to get his
wallet back, right?'' Jan Brittenson 3/93, on Leaf/Pen woofers in
rec.sport.hockey
From: chuq@apple.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Subject: Re: SHARKS REVIEW Part 5: Left Wings
Organization: Go Sharks, Go Giants, Inc.
Lines: 113
NNTP-Posting-Host: apple.com
nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>#8	LARRY DEPALMA		Season:	3rd
>Acquired:	'91-92, free agent from Minnesota
>Grade:		I (C-/D+)
>No netter/fan watching the Sharks, including me, knows where DePalma was at
>the end of the season; the Sharks appeared to still have his rights, but he
>wasn't in San Jose, he wasn't in Kansas City, and his name hasn't appeared on
>the waiver wire.
Sorry, Nelson, but you forgot to ask me. If you check the THN stats for
Kansas City, you'll find that Larry has been playing for the games, having
played in 8 games in the period covered in the stats between 3/26 and the
4/16 issue (1-3-4 with 13 PIM). Not exactly invisible.
>He then was sent down to
>Kansas City, walked out from there, and was suspended and later reinstated
>when it was revealed that he was injured; he then promptly disappeared from
>the watching eyes of Shark Bytes (as the mailing list is now known to Sharks
>officials) faithful, and neither the Sharks nor we miss him.
Well, having gotten to a chance to talk to him a few times, this isn't quite
accurate. He injured his back (a disk injury) and did one stupid thing,
which was to hide it from the Sharks and he tried to play through it because
he knew he was on the bubble. The Sharks then sent him to K.C., at which
point he disclosed the injury. Since he didn't disclose it, the Sharks and
he disagreed about the responsibility and he was suspended for not
reporting. That was eventually worked out, the Sharks re-instated him as
injured and put him into therapy, and when he was able to play then shipped
him down to K.C. He fully expects to play in the NHL again, although clearly
not with the Sharks (hiding injuries is a stupid no-no, beyond just a
no-no).
Very nice guy. Always hustled his butt off. He disappeared because he was
hurt. I expect he'll surface with another team at some point (probably
another expansion team), but is likely to be a bubble player for the rest of
his career. Has a good work ethic and is good at getting other players
motivated. Unfortunately, he played himself out of the Sharks future with a
bad judgement call.
>#20	JOHN CARTER		Season: 4th
>Acquired:	'91-92, free agent from Boston
>Grade:		I (B+/B)
> He
>is very unlikely to be back next season.
Always gave 110%, best work ethic on the club (except maybe Kisio), but
hustle isn't always enough. His future with the Sharks was made clear to me
one night against the Flames when he went behind the crease and tried to
hold Joel Otto against the board. He literally had one arm around Otto's
neck and another wrapped around Otto's stick arm. Otto casually turned
around and fed the puck in front of the crease for a goal, as though Carter
wasn't there. Hustle can only cover size so far.
The Sharks have told me, point blank, that he's gone for good (ditto HUbie
McDonough). He was one of the favorites of the staff, but as one said to me
"you have to make room for the kids". Carter, in fact, refused to report to
K.C. and has been suspended by the Sharks. That might be a defacto
retirement, but I haven't heard anything official. His only hope in hockey
now is the Gulls.
>#28	JEAN-FRANCOIS QUINTIN	Season: 1st
>Acquired:	'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft
>Grade:		I (B+/B)
>I don't understand why the Sharks didn't let Quintin play any more than the
>14 games he played this season.
Because, at least from the games I saw him in, he was outmatched and looked
fairly lost on the ice. I think he shows potential, but I didn't think he
was quite ready to make the jump to the NHL.
> He should be a solid contender for regular duty next season.
Agreed (BTW, I still think a lot of your grades are more based on how you
wish they'd performed than how they actually performed. I wonder whether you
can really judge talent from radio and television, Nelson? I know I have
trouble, since you don't see the off-puck action. your views from home and
my views from the ice differ in numerous ways)
>#41	MARK BEAUFAIT		Season: 1st
>Acquired:	2nd round pick in 1991 supplemental draft
>Grade:		I (?)
>After a all-star season at Kansas City, Beaufait got a cup of coffey with the
Coffee. Coffey is with the Red Wings.
>#45	DODY WOOD		Season: 1st
>Acquired:	3rd round pick in 1991 entry draft
>Grade:		I (D+/D, although perhaps I shouldn't give a grade at all)
>I have been accused of knocking on Wood too much.
You? Nah...
He was seriously unimpressive, even as a tough guy (his rep). However, as
few games as he had in a season that was at that point meaningless, I hate
to judge the talent too quickly. Butn in Dody's case, I"m tempted to make an
exception.
But I won't.
--
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= chuq@apple.com
Member, SFWA =+= Editor, OtherRealms =+=  GEnie: MAC.BIGOT =+= ALink:CHUQ
Minor League fans: minors-request@medraut.apple.com (San Jose Giants: A/1/9)
San Francisco Giants fans: giants-request@medraut.apple.com (The Stick?NOT!)
San Jose Sharks fans: sharks-request@medraut.apple.com (New seat: 127/TBD)
From: Patrick Walker <F1HH@UNB.CA>
Subject: They guy who bad-mouthed Ulf...
Lines: 16
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Ditto...
If we allow people like him to continue to do what he does, it's a
shame.  People say that cheap shots and drawing penalties by fake-
ing is part of the game, I say "Bullsh-t!".  If he ever tried some
like that on a Yzerman, he'd would have to deal with Probert now
wouldn't he?  What Ulf does isn't even retaliatory!  There's now
way one could justify what he does and if they do they're fools.
/----\==========/  Patrick Walker
/ /--\ =========/   University of New Brunswick
I I()I ======/      Canada
\ \--/ /            Detroit Fan Extraordinaire.
\----/
From: Patrick Walker <F1HH@UNB.CA>
Subject: Did you really expect Toronto to go anywhere?  REALLY!
Lines: 13
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Detroit is a very disciplined team.  There's a lot of Europeans
in Detroit which would make the game fast, so Toronto would have
to slow the game down, which means drawing penalties, as a last
resort anyway.  Toronto will be a good team as soon as they get
more good players.  Toronto is just an average team, Detroit isn't
Ballard screwed Toronto when he was owner.  Everyone knows that.
and it's going to take time for Toronto to become a real force.
I expect Gilmour to be burnt out next year.  He can't pull the
whole team forever.
Patrick Walker
University of New Brunswick
From: umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Daryl Turner)
Subject: ESPN sucks: OT or Baseball?  Guess which.
Nntp-Posting-Host: ccu.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Lines: 10
Showing a meaningless (relatively) baseball game over the overtime of
game that was tied up with less than 3 seconds left on the clock?
Gimme a break!  Where does ESPN get these BRILLIANT decisions from?
Daryl Turner : r.s.h contact for the Winnipeg Jets
Internet: umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca
FidoNET: 1:348/701 -or- 1:348/4  (please route through 348/700)
Tkachuk over to Zhamnov, up to Sel{nne, he shoots, he scores!
The Jets win the Cup!  The Jets win the Cup!
Essensa for Vezina!  Housley for Norris!  Sel{nne for Calder!
From: stamber@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Kevin L. Stamber)
Subject: ESPN, the network with a heart...
Keywords: NOT!
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Lines: 22
Dale Hunter ties the game, scoring his third goal of the game
with 2.7 seconds remaining in regulation.
You could feel it coming on.
"Due to contractual agreements, ESPN will be unable to carry
the rest of this game live, so that we may show you a worthless
early-season battle between those two pennant contenders, the
Cleveland Indians and the California Angels.  When the winning
goal is scored, we WILL do the grave injustice of breaking into the
baseball game -- something reserved only for the deaths of Presidents
or the trading of Joe Montana to the Chiefs -- to show you the
goal on instant replay.
"Aren't you SO lucky to have national coverage of hockey?"
It's HEIDI all over again, dammit!
Kevin L. Stamber
Purdue University
PENGUINS 7, DEVILS 0 -- ROLL TRAIN, ROLL!
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Thumbs WAY WAY WAY DOWN to ESPN
Keywords: Baseball, goddamn Baseball
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Lines: 36
cdash@moet.cs.colorado.edu (Charles Shub) writes:
>Tuesday, and the isles/caps game is going into overtime.
>what does ESPN do.....
>
>Tom Mees says,  "we are obligated to bring you baseball"
We're probably stuck, as Mike Burger pointed out that the baseball
deal was made far in advance of the NHL contract.  WABC did the same
thing; they were thankful that the Devils were wiped out by 9:30,
because they had to switch over to Yankees baseball.  The proof of
the reasons for this is left to the reader ...
It's too bad, but I wonder if ESPN is stuck with other US local team
coverage for their alternate games?  We got NESN's coverage of the
Bruins-Sabres with the Boston homers ... they were awful!!!  I've read
that Derek Sanderson is the colour analyst ... I wonder if he spent
his early years after hockey as an intern at PRAVDA before landing
this job?  *Everything* had to be twisted into something good to say
about the Bruin(s) involved ... not even Bill Wirtz's shills on SC
Chicago (Pat Foley, Dale Tallon) were this bad.  And just to be fair,
SC used to take their feed from ESN (Empire Sports Network), the Sabre
homers and they were horrible too ... but they were spacy.
From the CNN highlights, I hear Chris Cuthbert's voice from the CBC
coverage of the Habs-Nords series.  Too bad that we couldn't get it
on ESPN, with all due respect to the Sabres and the Bruins.
Mike Emrick is substituting on the Devils SCNY team for Gary Thorne.
Mike was the original Devils TV play-by-play announcer, by the way.
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: The guy who bad-mouthed Ulf...
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Lines: 14
Patrick Walker <F1HH@UNB.CA> writes:
>
>If he ever tried some like that on a Yzerman, he'd
>would have to deal with Probert now wouldn't he?
Do you realize how many smiles are crossing faces after you wrote that?
(-;
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: kozloce@wkuvx1.bitnet
Subject: ESPN Thumbs Up your $%#@*!!
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY
Lines: 35
Jesus Christ!!!
The score is now 6-0. The Pens are beating the shit out of the Devils who
gave up in the middle of the 2nd period. ESPN does something smart. The
announcer states "well folks this game is getting out of hand. Lets go to
the Islander/Capitals game." I celebrate as I was actually making progress in
my CS homework because I was so bored by the scheduled game.  I tear down and
throw on my jersey, Hunter scores I go ape shit 'cause this is the first
caps game I've been able to watch all season. And what does ESPN do? they
go back to the blowout that NJ hasn't a chance in hell of winning!
The period ends and the sportscaster (CAPITOLS JUST TIED IT UP!! YES!!
oops excuse me =) goes into his penguin worship mode (Dont freak pens fans!
They are worthy of this! I'm so glad we wont have to play them as much next
year!) and here comes the 3rd period...what? its the blowout again. Oh they
were just waiting for the Cap/Isles to get out of intermission. Good
they've put a close game back on. Wait! WHATS THIS SHIT?!! THEY'RE SHOWING
THE BLOWOUT AGAIN!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!
(Oh guess what the score is now 7-0 penguins! Switch games you $%&*#@!!!)
Holy shit they're changing games! ITS ABOUT GODDAMNED TIME!! Lets see if
they'll stay.
Later
I think this proves by $#%&* point. The Caps game goes into overtime but
"due to contractual obligations" they have to switch to the fucking baseball.
(Sorry for my language but im PISSED!) What the hell were they going to do
if their scheduled game went into overtime? ESPN get your head out of your
ass.
Now I know there are a lot
From: etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson)
Subject: WC 93: Scores and standings, April 20
Nntp-Posting-Host: uipc104.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Telecom, Stockholm, Sweden
Lines: 72
1993 World Championships in Germany:
====================================
Group A standings (Munich)          Group B standings (Dortmund)
--------------------------          ----------------------------
GP  W T L GF-GA +/- P                  GP  W T L GF-GA +/- P
Canada      2  2 0 0  6-1  +5  4    Czech republic 2  1 1 0  6-1  +5  3
Russia      2  1 1 0  6-4  +2  3    Finland        2  1 1 0  3-1  +2  3
Italy       2  1 1 0  3-2  +1  3    Germany        2  1 0 1  6-5  +1  2
Sweden      2  1 0 1  2-4  -2  2    USA            2  0 2 0  2-2   0  2
--------------------------------    -----------------------------------
Austria     2  0 0 2  2-5  -3  0    France         1  0 0 1  0-2  -2  0
Switzerland 2  0 0 2  0-3  -3  0    Norway         1  0 0 1  0-6  -6  0
April 18:  Italy - Russia        2-2       Norway - Germany          0-6
Sweden - Austria      1-0       USA - Czech republic      1-1
April 19:  Canada - Switzerland  2-0
Russia - Austria      4-2       Finland - France          2-0
April 20:  Sweden - Canada       1-4       Czech republic - Germany  5-0
Switzerland - Italy   0-1       Finland - USA             1-1
April 21:                                  Germany - France		15:30
Italy - Sweden                  Czech republic - Norway	20:00
April 22:  Switzerland - Russia            USA - France		15:30
Austria - Canada                Norway - Finland		20:00
April 23:  Switzerland - Austria           Germany - Finland		20:00
April 24:  Russia - Sweden                 Czech republic - France	15:30
Canada - Italy                  USA - Norway		20:00
April 25:  Sweden - Switzerland            Finland- Czech republic  	15:30
Russia - Canada                 Germany - USA		20:00
April 26:  Austria - Italy                 France - Norway		20:00
PLAYOFFS:
=========
April 27:	Quarterfinals
A #2 - B #3						15:30
A #3 - B #2						20:00
April 28:	Quarterfinals
A #1 - B #4						15:30
A #4 - B #1						20:00
April 29:	Relegation
A #5 - B #6						15:30
A #6 - B #5						20:00
April 30:	Semifinals
A #1/B #4 - A #3/B #2					15:30
A #4/B #1 - A #2/B #3					20:00
May 1:		Relegation						14:30
Bronze medal game 					19:00
May 2:		FINAL							15:00
--
((\\  //| Staffan Axelsson
\\  //|| etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se
\\_))//-|| r.s.h. contact for Swedish hockey
From: boora@kits.sfu.ca (The GodFather)
Subject: ABC: The Real Thing?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 7
Ok, it seems that everyone else in canada was treated to the
REAL ABC telecast while only the people on ROGERS TV in Surrey BC
were treated to two channels with Don "I stink as a Commentator" Whitman
doing the play-by-play.
The GodFather.
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: 1993 NHL Draft
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Lines: 29
In article <1993Apr20.184627.4585@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs902043@ariel.yorku.ca (SHAWN LUDDINGTON) writes:
>As for the picks
>Ottawa picks #1 which means it is almost 100% that Alexander Daigle will
>go #1. He'll either stay or be traded in Montreal or Quebec.  IMO I would
>take Kariya.  He should alot of leadership in the NCAA and so far in
>the World Championships.  Daigle didn't show this for his junior team.
>
>San Jose will then get Kariya.
>
>Tampa Bay will either go for a russian Kozlov (I think that's it) or a
>    defenseman Rob Niedemeyer (probably spelt the last name wrong)
The last name is Niedermayer, as in New Jersey's Scott's last name, because
(you guessed it) they are brothers.  But Rob Niedermayer is a center, not
a defenseman.
I am not sure that the Sharks will take Kariya.  They aren't saying much, but
they apparently like Niedermayer and Victor Kozlov, along with Kariya.  Chris
Pronger's name has also been mentioned.  My guess is that they'll take
Niedermayer.  They may take Pronger, except that they already have too many
defensive prospects.
===============================================================================
GO CALGARY FLAMES!  Al MacInnis for Norris!  Gary Roberts for Hart and Smythe!
GO EDMONTON OILERS!  Go for playoffs next year!  Stay in Edmonton!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
rec.sport.hockey contact for the San Jose Sharks
From: holger.ohlwein@ap.mchp.sni.de (Holger Ohlwein)
Subject: Re: Canada 3 Sweden 1 at the World Champioships
Reply-To: holger.ohlwein@ap.mchp.sni.de (Holger Ohlwein)
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Informationssysteme AG
Lines: 16
NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.21.16.6
In article <20APR199319243244@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca>, white@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca (Take me Baby!) writes:
>
> 	Today at the World Championships in Munich, Canada scored an
> impressive 3-1 victory over the defending World Champs, Sweden.
In the game *I* have seen yesterday in the Olympiahalle of Munich
Canada won 4-1 against Sweden! The last goal for Canada was at 19:59 in
the 3rd period. Maybe you shouldn't go and get you another beer
before the game is over and then post imaginary results...
Holger
--
S I E M E N S    Holger Ohlwein   AP153   Otto-Hahn-Ring 6    8000 Muenchen 83
-------------    Tel: + 49 (89) 636-3746  Email: holger.ohlwein@ap.mchp.sni.de
N I X D O R F    Never put off till tomorrow what you can avoid all together.
From: kirk@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (ANDREW KIRK)
Subject: Re: Goodbye, good riddance, get lost 'Stars
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Nntp-Posting-Host: obelix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca
Lines: 34
In article <9505@blue.cis.pitt.edu> gomer+@pitt.edu (Richard J Coyle) writes:
>In article <1993Apr19.232038.26593@julian.uwo.ca> kirk@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (ANDREW KIRK) writes:
>>First off, anyone accepted into the Western Business School is not a dork.
>>Second, just because one person out of a country of 27 Million doesn't think
>>before he/she posts an article, does NOT mean that he/she is embarrasing
>>Canada. This network is for expressing what you feel are your thoughts. Just
>>because someone doesn't agree with you, this does not give you the right to
>>call them assholes. Anyways, the North Stars are SHIT!!!!!!!!!
>
>Actually, I think it does give people the privilege of calling folks
>like you assholes.   Although my own asshole might take offense at being
>grouped in with a bunch of losers like you.
>
>I've never heard of the Western Business School, anyhow.  Probably a
>chickenshit place.
>
>rick
Losers like us? You are the fucking moron who has never heard of the Western
Business School, or the University of Western Ontario for that matter. Why
don't you pull your head out of your asshole and smell something other than
shit for once so you can look on a map to see where UWO is! Back to hockey,
the North Stars should be moved because for the past few years they have
just been SHIT. A real team like Toronto would never be moved!!!
Andrew--
--
Andrew Kirk
University of Western Ontario
London, Ontario
GO LEAFS GO!
From: caine@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lord Vader)
Subject: Trivia:  the Habs?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 7
OK, I'm sure that this has been asked 100's of times before, but I
have wondered since I heard it...  Where the hell did the nickname
of the "Habs" come from for the Montreal Canadiens?
Thanks in advance,
Caine Schneider
From: willis@oracle.SCG.HAC.COM (Stan Willis)
Subject: 1992-93 NHL Regular Season Final Attendance Report
Reply-To: willis@empire.dnet.hac.com (Stan Willis)
Organization: none
Lines: 40
*** NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE ***
92-93 SEASON
HOME ATTENDANCE REPORT
Each Qtr. represents 10 home games,   Qtr. 4 will have 11 home games.
Neutral site games are not included.  S/O indicates the number of sell-outs.
Team
Name   Qtr. 1   S/O  Qtr. 2   S/O  Qtr. 3   S/O  Qtr. 4   S/O   Totals   Average
================================================================================
BOS    140,573   5   142,694   7   142,768   6   152,468   8    578,503   14,109
BUF    144,701   0   148,516   3   152,133   5   168,878   4    614,228   14,981
CAL    190,125   1   196,174   3   196,982   4   217,346   5    800,627   19,527
CHI    176,372  10   176,746   9   177,981  10   196,749  11    727,848   17,752
DET    196,330  10   196,670  10   197,228  10   217,167  10    807,395   19,692
EDM    139,038   0   149,422   2   152,831   2   165,384   2    606,675   14,796
HAR     92,994   0   110,670   2   108,651   0   122,123   0    434,438   10,596
LA     154,065   5   159,014   8   160,050  10   176,055  11    649,184   15,833
MIN    130,710   2   140,933   3   139,986   1   160,213   4    571,842   13,947
MON    168,097   8   169,671  10   168,784  10   190,186  11    696,738   16,993
NJ     127,053   0   124,011   2   145,856   2   163,050   1    559,970   13,657
NYI    114,706   1   108,502   1   123,167   3   139,946   0    486,321   11,861
NYR    178,200   7   179,990   6   182,000  10   199,337   8    739,527   18,037
OTT    104,713  10   105,000  10   104,602  10   115,330  11    429,645   10,479
PHI    172,372   4   172,967   3   172,613   2   190,520   5    708,472   17,279
PIT    160,379   6   161,475   8   161,280   6   177,705  10    660,839   16,118
QUE    149,452   3   147,911   3   147,394   2   168,830   8    613,587   14,965
SJ     110,890  10   110,374   8   110,120   7   121,745  10    453,129   11,051
STL    156,313   3   170,531   5   171,249   5   187,849   7    685,942   16,730
TB      97,269   5    99,621   6    99,611   4   114,059   9    410,560   10,013
TOR    155,500   4   157,779   9   157,014   8   172,888  11    643,181   15,687
VAN    144,120   0   154,184   4   157,094   6   176,751   8    632,149   15,418
WAS    153,209   0   163,563   1   161,479   2   171,711   2    649,962   15,852
WIN    131,072   0   135,902   1   133,414   1   154,956   2    555,344   13,544
3,488,253     3,582,320     3,624,287     4,021,246     14,716,106
Avg.    14,534        14,926        15,101        15,231                  14,955
From: willis@oracle.SCG.HAC.COM (Stan Willis)
Subject: Kings playoff notes: Stauber, TV ratings, etc.
Reply-To: willis@empire.dnet.hac.com (Stan Willis)
Organization: none
Lines: 112
1992-93 Los Angeles Kings notes.
--------------------------------
Playoffs:
---------
*Stauber disturbed by third-man theme
by Rick Sadowski, Daily News
Barry Melrose's decision to stick Robb Stauber in the stands rather than in the
crease or even on the bench for the Stanley Cup playoffs does not sit well with
the rookie goaltender.
"I want to be a part of the team at the most crucial time of the year, the most
fun time of the year, and I'm not,"  Stauber said with some emotion Monday.  "I
think I have worked hard enough for that."
Stauber said he accepts Melrose's choice of Kelly Hrudey as the teams top goalie
in their playoff series with the Calgary Flames. Hrudey made 21 saves in Sundays
6-3 opening victory.
But Stauber clearly is upset with his sudden status as the No. 3 man behind Rick
Knickle.  Stauber had a 4-1-2 record and 2.98 goals-against average down the
stretch in the regular season and nearly wrestled the No. 1 job from Hrudey.
Knickle?  He won 2 of 3 decisions but had a bloated 5.26 average, twice was
yanked from games (once for stomach cramps) and hasn't played since March 29.
Yet, when the series resumes Wednesday, Knickle will serve as Hrudey's backup
again and Stauber will have to satisfy his playoff hunger by munching on Olympic
Saddledome popcorn.
"If I'm supposedly close to being the starter or could have been the starter...I
dropped too. 3.  What happened to No. 2?"  Stauber wondered.  "Not that I'd be
happy with No. 2, but I feel I should at least be a part of this team in the
playoffs."
Perhaps Stauber eventually will get his chance, but Melrose apparently is not
convinced the 25-year old is capable of handling playoff pressure.
While insisting he is the Kings' "goalie of the future," Melrose said Stauber
flubbed all four of the big games he was asked to win this season.  They were,
according to Melrose: a 7-2 loss to San Jose on Dec. 26; An 8-3 loss to the New
York Rangers on Jan. 23; a 6-6 tie with Detroit on Feb. 11; an 8-6 loss to
Vancouver on Thursday.
"Four times this season Robb could have emerged as the elite goalie, he could
have taken it away from Kelly Hrudey, and he didn't do it," Melrose said.  "An
elite goaltender has to carry the ball when you give it to him.  The mark of a
great goalie is that he isn't satisfied to be a backup."
"I'm not blaming Robb for the losses, but if you're going to be No. 1, you've
got to be able to walk your talk.  You've got to be able to play when everything
is on the line.  Robb Stauber has a great deal of ability, but maybe I expect
more from him than he does."
Ouch.  That remark stung Stauber.  He began the season 9-0-1, struggled when the
team hit a mid-season slump, didn't play for a month after Knickle was signed
off the San Diego Gulls roster, then came on at the end.
"I expect more from myself than anybody, including Barry Melrose," said Stauber,
a three-year star at the University of Minnesota who left school in 1989, only
to have his development hampered by a string of serious injuries.
"What I've been through the last four years - two knee operations, a herniated
disk in my back, shoulder surgery - what more can I go through?  I obviously do
expect a lot from myself, otherwise I wouldn't be here."
"Anybody who would disagree with that doesn't know me.  I'm not saying Barry
doesn't know me, but don't say I've been without expectations.  If anything, I'm
a perfectionist."
Stauber acknowledged he played poorly in the four games Melrose mentioned. "But
even though I didn't play well, I get knocked down from maybe on to three? It's
a bit of a jump," he said.  "You're almost No. 1, or if you play a good game
you're No. 1 and if you don't you're No. 3?  Why does Jack Nicklaus shoot a 67
and then a 75?  Can you explain that?  That's what barry wanted me to explain
to him, why I didn't come through when he counted on me.  I don't know. What I
do know is, it's a sport.  I'll be there."
Melrose's "goalie of the future" statement doesn't mean much to Stauber. "Before
you know it, I'll be 30 and there will be no future," he said.
------
*Game 1 of the Kings @ Flames playoff series drew a 4.2 Nielsen rating on ABC
Channel 7 here in LA.  The Kings averaged a 2.1 Nielsen rating in the 10 regular
season games aired on Channel 5.
Around the NHL:
---------------
*San Jose fired Coach George Kingston, who lead the team to a 11-71-2 mark in
their 2nd NHL season.  Kingston was 28-129-7 over the past 2 years with the
Sharks.
------
*Former Islander executive Bill Torrey was named as President of the expansion
Florida Panthers.  Bobby Clarke was named as the clubs General Manager.
*Last nights games:
-------------------
WIN  2 @ VAN  4 (VAN leads 1-0)
TOR  3 @ DET  6 (DET leads 1-0)
===============================================================================
Stan Willis (willis@empire.dnet.hac.com)
net contact: L.A. Kings
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
talk with the L.A. Kings Mailing List ...... kings@cs.stanford.edu
to subscribe or unsubscribe: ....... kings-request@cs.stanford.edu
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
===============================================================================
From: willis@oracle.SCG.HAC.COM (Stan Willis)
Subject: Re: Schedule...
Reply-To: willis@empire.dnet.hac.com (Stan Willis)
Organization: none
Lines: 18
In article <121411@netnews.upenn.edu> kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller) writes:
>In article <1qup1lINNotb@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> swartzjh@RoseVC.Rose-Hulman.Edu writes:
>F**king *NO* hockey games televised nationally tonight!  What the hell is
>this???  Why the hell is ESPN showing some stupid baseball game, when
>baseball is not even three weeks into the season and hockey is in the
>playoffs???  No, wait, I know the answer: $$$$$$  But still!  It really
.
.
.
ESPN had the Houston Astros @ Chicago Cubs game scheduled for last night on the
west coast.
Since the game was rained out, they showed the Toronto Maple Leafs at the
Detroit Red Wings game instead.
Stan Willis
net contact: LA Kings
From: Bjornar.Steinbakken@edb.uib.no
Subject: Re: #77's?
Organization: University of Bergen
Lines: 13
In article <1r23on$4p6@bigboote.WPI.EDU> ching@bigwpi.WPI.EDU ("The
Logistician") writes:
>
>I am in need of all of the players wearing #77 in the NHL.  I know now
only
>of one, Ray Borque for the Bruins.  Any help would be greatly
appreciated.
Paul Coffey of Detroit RedWings
Bjoernar Steinbakken
From: mvs1@cec2.wustl.edu (Michael Virata Sy)
Subject: Re: Red Wings Goespel...
Nntp-Posting-Host: cec2
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Lines: 20
Don't forget Paul Ysebaert, ex-Devil.  He's a good team player.
Michael Sy
mvs1@cec2.wustl.edu
/|______|\
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/|||||\    /|||||/
/|||||||\  /|||||/     NEW JERSEY DEVILS
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''''' .____/|||||/
../|||||||||||'
/|./||||||||||||||'
/|||||'       '''
//|\
From: etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson)
Subject: WC 93: Results, April 20
Organization: Ericsson Telecom, Stockholm, Sweden
Lines: 162
Nntp-Posting-Host: uipc104.ericsson.se
1993 World Championships in Germany:
====================================
Group A results:
SWEDEN - CANADA  1-4 (0-0,1-1,0-3)
1st:
2nd: CAN 0-1 Geoff Sanderson      (Kevin Dineen)                  7:24
SWE 1-1 Patrik Juhlin        (Jan Larsson)                  15:23 (pp)
3rd: CAN 1-2 Geoff Sanderson                                      5:54 (ps)
CAN 1-3 Mike Gartner         (Greg Johnson,Adam Graves)     10:44
CAN 1-4 Rod Brind'Amour      (Shayne Corson)                19:59
Shots on goal:    Penalties:    Attendance:     Referee:
Sweden     10 15 12 - 37     4*2min        6,500           Rob Hearn (USA)
Canada     10 13  6 - 29     6*2min
Bill Ranford stopped 36 shots to lead Canada to a 4-1 victory in a very well
played game.
The first period started with a give away from a Canadian defenseman and
Rundqvist came in alone on Ranford but couldn't put the puck over a sliding
Ranford. Later on, Kevin Dineen had a great opportunity but Soderstrom
played very well too. Stefan Nilsson had a couple of great dekes and set up
Jan Larsson but again Ranford came up big. Period ended scoreless but the edge
to Sweden in creating more opportunities.
Second period action saw Tommy Soderstrom making a GREAT save. Mark Recchi
made a backhanded cross ice pass to Lindros, Eric one timed the puck but
Soderstrom was there to make a glove hand save. At the 7-minute mark, Canada
started applying pressure on the Swedes. Sanderson-Dineen-Brind'Amour worked
hard and kept the puck in the Swedes' zone. Dineen gave the puck to Sanderson
who skated around a screened Swedish defenseman, came in on Soderstrom and
made a wrist shot that went it by Soderstrom's far post, 1-0 Canada.
The Swedes picked up their game after that, and Peter Forsberg had a shot
that hit Ranford's post (the inside), went parallel to the goal line and out.
Then Gartner got a penalty and the Swedes a power play. Jan Larsson took
a shot from the slot, Ranford gave a rebound to Larsson who saw Juhlin by
the far post, passed the puck and Ranford was beat, 1-1.
Third period started as the other periods, Swedes having most of the pressure
but the Canadians always dangerous once they were close to the Swede goal.
At 5:54, Canada created some great chances and Arto Blomsten was forced to
cover the puck in the Swede goal crease since Soderstrom lost sight of it.
That resulted in a penalty shot, since a defenseman can't cover the puck in
the goal crease. Geoff Sanderson took the penalty shot (his first ever, he
explained afterwards), and he put it low on Soderstrom's stick side, close
to the post. Excellent penalty shot to give Canada a go ahead goal.
Canada increased the lead on a very suspect offside, Gartner volleyed a
bouncing puck past Soderstrom to make it 3-1. The Swedes ran out of gas
then and couldn't produce as good scoring chances as they had for 2,5 periods.
The 4-1 goal came with only 1 second left, Rod Brind'Amour scoring on a
rebound from Soderstrom, where the Swedish defense already had their minds
in the dressing room.
A very good game (the best in the WC so far?), with both goalies playing
great. Soderstrom best player in Sweden, but Ranford even played better
than Soderstrom, that tells you something about Ranford. Probably the best
goalie in the world, were some comments after the game.
Canada played a very disciplined defense, Ranford pointed out that it is
easy to play well with a good defense. Lindros played A LOT and played well,
Sanderson naturally game hero with two goals.
The Forsberg-Naslund-Bergqvist line Sweden's best along with Larsson-Juhlin-
Nilsson. Swedish defense played well, 197 cm 104 kg Peter Popovic had the
task of neutralizing 192 cm 107 kg Eric Lindros, and managed this very well.
Ranger defenseman Peter Andersson finally got to go to the WC, and considering
that he landed in Germany just a few hours before the game, he played very
well. Swedish coach Curt Lundmark was irritated after the game, partly because
of the Swedes inability to score, and partly because of the linesman's mistake
on the 1-3 goal.
Lines information follows further below.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
ITALY - SWITZERLAND  1-0 (0-0,1-0,0-0)
1st:
2nd: ITA 1-0 Orlando          15:47
3rd:
Penalties: ITA 10*2min, SWI 8*2min
Referee: Anton Danko, Slovakia
Attendance: 3,500
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group B results:
CZECH REPUBLIC - GERMANY  5-0 (0-0,3-0,2-0)
1st:
2nd: CZE 1-0 Kamil Kastak        1:51
CZE 2-0 Jiri Dolezal       12:26
CZE 3-0 Petr Hrbek         19:10
3rd: CZE 4-0 Radek Toupal        8:28
CZE 5-0 Josef Beranek      17:07
Penalties: CZE 7*2min, GER 6*2min 1*5min 1*10min game penalty
Referee: Darren Loraas, Canada
Attendance: 10,200
The Czechs were clearly better than the Germans, and the German crowd
showed their discontent by throwing in stuff on the ice after a while.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
FINLAND - USA  1-1 (0-0,1-0,0-1)
1st:
2nd: FIN 1-0 Jarkko Varvio      4:00
3rd: USA 1-1 Ed Olczyk          4:26
Penalties: FIN 7*2min, USA 6*2min
Referee: Valeri Bokarev, Russia
Attendance: 2,800
I hope some Finns can provide information from this game (I didn't see the
whole game). The Finns took the lead on a Jarkko Varvio slap shot from the
blue line, and a soft goal for an unscreened Mike Richter.
As far as the play in the second period goes, the Finns seemed to have the
most control, so a 1-0 lead was warranted as I saw it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SWEDEN			   CANADA
Goaltender:	30 Tommy Soderstrom		30 Bill Ranford
Defense:	 8 Kenneth Kennholt		 5 Norm Maciver
14 Fredrik Stillman		24 Dave Manson
3 Peter Popovic		25 Geoff Smith
55 Peter Andersson		19 Brian Benning
7 Arto Blomsten		 6 Terry Carkner
28 Roger Akerstrom		 3 Garry Galley
4 Derek Mayer
Forwards:	29 Mikael Renberg		15 Dave Gagner
9 Thomas Rundqvist		27 Adam Graves
34 Mikael Andersson		22 Mike Gartner
19 Markus Naslund		20 Paul Kariya
21 Peter Forsberg		88 Eric Lindros
18 Jonas Bergqvist		 8 Mark Recchi
5 Patrik Juhlin		17 Rod Brind'Amour
20 Jan Larsson			 9 Shayne Corson
4 Stefan Nilsson		11 Kevin Dineen
22 Charles Berglund		10 Geoff Sanderson
26 Michael Nylander		12 Greg Johnson
(34 Andersson/18 Bergqvist)	14 Brian Savage
16 Kelly Buchberger
--
((\\  //| Staffan Axelsson
\\  //|| etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se
\\_))//-|| r.s.h. contact for Swedish hockey
From: delarocq@eos.ncsu.edu (DERRELL EMERY LAROCQUE)
Subject: BUFFALO 4, Boston 0: Defense!!
Reply-To: delarocq@eos.ncsu.edu (DERRELL EMERY LAROCQUE)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Lines: 26
Originator: delarocq@c00082-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Tonight in Boston, the Buffalo Sabres blanked the Boston
Bruins 4-0 tonight in Boston. Looks like Boston can hang
this season up, because Buffalo's home record is awesome!!!!
This is great.. Buffalo fans might get to see revenge for
last year!!!!! :)
--
delarocq@eos.ncsu.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1988,1989,1990,1991 AFC East Division Champions
1991,1992, AND 1993 AFC Conference Champions!!!!!!!!  :)
Squished the Fish ............... Monday Night Football, November 16, 1992..
SQUISHED THE TRASH TALKING FISH.. AFC CHAMPIONSHIP, JANUARY 17, 1992..
If you are a Buffalo Bills fan, email me at delarocq@eos.ncsu.edu
so we can talk all about the games, insight, etc.
If you are a Packers fan, let me know. I am interested in any news
out of Green Bay...
From: bart@splunge.uucp (Barton Oleksy)
Subject: Re: LA ON ABC IN CANADA
Organization: Ashley, Howland & Wood
Lines: 25
plarsen@sanjuan (P Allen Larsen) writes:
>In article <boora.735182771@sfu.ca> boora@kits.sfu.ca (The GodFather) writes:
>>	Was the ABC coverage of the Kings/Flames game supposed to be the
>>way it was shown in BC with CBC overriding the ABC coverage?  When I flipped
>>to ABC, it was the same commentators, same commercials even.  My question
>>is:  Was this the real ABC coverage or did CBC just "black out" the
>>ABC coverage for its own?
>>
>Yes, it's called simulcast.  In Canada, when a Canadian station and an
>American station are showing the same thing whether a sporting event or
>Cheers on Thursday night, the Canadian signal is broadcast over the American
>station. They even do this during the Superbowl, which has the best commercials
>of any television.  What do we get here, dumb Canadian commercials, the same
>ones we've seen for that last year or so.
I'm in Edmonton, and while that's usually (or at least OFTEN) the case,
here we were "treated" to the actual ABC telecast of the Kings/Flames
game.  I'm with whoever said it earlier - Don Witless (er, Whitman) is
a poor commentator, and not just for hockey.  Normally, if the Oilers
were still playing (augh), I would turn off the sound and listen to
the radio broadcast to get decent play-by-play announcing.
Bart, Edmonton
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Bay area media (Wings-Leafs coverage)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Lines: 25
In <DREIER.93Apr19195132@durban.berkeley.edu> dreier@durban.berkeley.edu (Roland Dreier) writes:
>The San Francisco Bay area media is reporting tonight that the Detroit
>Red Wings beat the Toronto Maple Leafs 6-3.  Can someone who is not
>part of the media conspiracy against the Leafs tell me how the game
>really went (I am expecting a 4-0 win for the Leafs, shutout for
>Potvin, hat trick for Andreychuk and a goal and 3 assists for
>Gilmour).  If the Leafs really lost, how many penalties did whichever
>biased ref was at the game have to call against the Leafs to let the
>Red Wings win?
Ah yes.  California.  Did the San Francisco Bay area media report that
Joe Montana is rumoured to be the leading candidate to replace fired
San Jose Sharks coach George Kingston?  Apparently Montana is not only
coveted for his winning attitude, but as a playing coach he will be
expected to quarterback the powerplay.
Good thing those walls are so soft, eh Rollie?
--
cordially, as always,                      maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
"So many morons...
rm                                                   ...and so little time."
From: njdevils@IASTATE.EDU (Cire Y. Trehguad)
Subject: Re: NHL Team Captains
Reply-To: njdevils@IASTATE.EDU (Cire Y. Trehguad)
Organization: Iowa State University
Lines: 18
Anna Matyas (am2x+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote:
: Michael Collingridge writes:
: >And, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been traded,
: >resigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any other
: >team captain trivia would be appreciated.
;
: Wasn't Ron Francis captain of the Whalers when he was traded to
: Pittsburgh?
And Rick Tochett was the captain of the Flyers when traded to the Pens
recently...
Caleb
And let us not forget that the New Jersey Devils traded
captain Kirk Muller for Stephen Richer and Chorske
Man I hated that trade!
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Wings take game one
Keywords: The Detroit Red Wings - 6 ; The Toronto Maple Leafs - 3
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Lines: 19
In <1qvos8$r78@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> vergolin@euler.lbs.msu.edu (David Vergolini) writes:
>  The Detroit Red Wings put a lot of doubter on ice tonight with a 6 - 3
>washing of the Toronto Maple Leafs.  All you Toronto fans have now seen the
>power of the mighty Red Wing offense.  Toronto's defense in no match for the
>Wing offense.  As for the defense, Probert, Kennedey and Primeau came out
Did they move Probert back to defense?  Why did I see him parking his ass
in front of Potvin all night?  Somebody is going to have to discipline
Probert if the Leafs want to win the series.  Perhaps a fresh Clark should
hit the ice at the end of a long Probert shift and straigten him out for
a while...
--
cordially, as always,                      maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
"So many morons...
rm                                                   ...and so little time."
From: etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson)
Subject: Re: WC 93: Results, April 18
Organization: Ericsson Telecom, Stockholm, Sweden
Lines: 72
Nntp-Posting-Host: uipc104.ericsson.se
dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein) writes:
>  What's going on?  The Russians and the Czechs are unable to beat easy
>opponents, and the Swedes beat Austria only 1:0?!?
>
It's the "opening-game effect" maybe. Pros arrive late, nervousness for
rookie WC players, and problems to get the lines clicking may make things
hard to get it going against these "worse" nations.
I'd guess that the better team you face in the opening game, the better
it is, since the chances of an upset are greater then.
Some other reasons why the "worse" teams are so tough to beat was presented
by Hans "Virus" Lindberg (former coach in Switzerland).
1) The "worse" teams (referring to France, Switzerland, Austria, Italy etc)
have now usually world class goalies.
2) Their defensive play have become much more disciplined, they take much
less unnecessary penalties.
3) They use four lines which makes it harder to make them "run out of gas."
4) The ice quality in the German WC rinks is poor.
>  The only convincing winner was... Germany.  Wierd.
>
Another weird thing was that the Czechs played entertaining hockey..
err.. just kidding, David.
>p.s. Alex, I would like to see the Czech roster, including, if possible,
>the clubs from which the players come.  How many are "Finnish", "German",
>or "Swiss"?
>
Alex? That's a new name for me ;)
OK, I forgot the Czech roster at home yesterday, but now I have it.
I don't know the teams for all players, so I would appreciate if
you guys could fill in the blanks for me (especially I think some
of these players play in Finland).
The Czech Republic
------------------
Goaltenders:	 1. Petr Briza		(Finland somewhere, right?)
2. Roman Turek		Motor C. Budejovice
Defense:	 3. Leo Gudas		?
4. Milos Holan		TJ Vitkovice
5. Drahomir Kadlec	?
6. Bedrich Scerban	Brynas, Sweden
7. Antonin Stavjana	HV 71, Sweden
8. Miroslav Horava	MoDo, Sweden
9. Ales Flasar		TJ Vitkovice
Forwards:	10. Petr Rosol		?
12. Kamil Kastak	HV 71, Sweden
13. Richard Zemlicka	?
14. Jiri Kucera		?
16. Jan Caloun		HC Litvinov
18. Petr Hrbek		?
19. Tomas Kapusta	?
20. Otakar Janecky	(Finland?)
21. Roman Horak		Motor C. Budejovice
22. Martin Hostak	MoDo, Sweden
24. Radek Toupal	?
26. Jiri Dolezal	?
Staffan
--
((\\  //| Staffan Axelsson
\\  //|| etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se
\\_))//-|| r.s.h. contact for Swedish hockey
From: icop@csa.bu.edu (Antonio Pera)
Subject: Hockey & The Hispanic community
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Lines: 6
Originator: icop@csa
Relying on Canadian tourists and transplanted Northeasterners to
support a team in Miami is crazy; espaecially when you have really deserving
cities without a team such as San Diego & Milwaukee. I wish the Panthers or
whatever their name is well but if they can't sell to Hispanics, they're in
deep doo-doo. Already, there are rumors that Tampa may move to Milwaukee.
From: icop@csa.bu.edu (Antonio Pera)
Subject: ABC coverage
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Lines: 9
Originator: icop@csa
I loved the ABC coverage. The production was excellent. The appearance
was excellent. It had a sleek modern look. This was the first time I heard
Thorne & Clement & I thought they were great. My only request is to leave
Al Micheals out of this. He annoys me.
I'm hoping this leads to a regular-season contract. My guess would
be is that it will be roughly a weekly game from Feb.-April and then the
playoffs. I envy you Canadians with your TSN & CBC. Maybe I'll get a dish
to pick up Canadian TV. How much are those things, BTW?
From: c5ff@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (COOK  Charlie)
Subject: NHL Summary parse results for games played Sun, April 18, 1993
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Lines: 219
New Jersey                       1 0 2--3
Pittsburgh                       2 3 1--6
First period
1, Pittsburgh, Tocchet 1 (Stevens, Lemieux) pp, 1:40.
2, New Jersey, Barr 1 (Guerin, Holik) 6:24.
3, Pittsburgh, Lemieux 1 (Jagr, Ramsey) 9:33.
Second period
4, Pittsburgh, Lemieux 2 (Stevens, Murphy) pp, 4:11.
5, Pittsburgh, Francis 1 (Ramsey, Mullen) 12:57.
6, Pittsburgh, Tippett 1 (Jagr, McEachern) 17:13.
Third period
7, Pittsburgh, Jagr 1 (Samuelsson, Lemieux) pp, 8:35.
8, New Jersey, Stevens 1 (Niedermayer, Driver) pp, 11:48.
9, New Jersey, Stevens 2 (Semak, Niedermayer) 18:56.
Pittsburgh: 6    Power play: 8-3
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Francis            1    0    1
Jagr               1    2    3
Lemieux            2    2    4
McEachern          0    1    1
Mullen             0    1    1
Murphy             0    1    1
Ramsey             0    2    2
Samuelsson         0    1    1
Stevens            0    2    2
Tippett            1    0    1
Tocchet            1    0    1
New Jersey: 3    Power play: 8-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Barr               1    0    1
Driver             0    1    1
Guerin             0    1    1
Holik              0    1    1
Niedermayer        0    2    2
Semak              0    1    1
Stevens            2    0    2
-----------------------------------------
St Louis                         0 2 2--4
Chicago                          1 2 0--3
First period
1, Chicago, Noonan 1 (Larmer, Brown) 8:17.
Second period
2, St Louis, Brown 1 (Shanahan, Emerson) 3:12.
3, Chicago, Noonan 2 (Roenick, Chelios) pp, 5:40.
4, Chicago, Noonan 3 (Matteau, Sutter) 8:51.
5, St Louis, Felsner 1 (McRae, Janney) 12:49.
Third period
6, St Louis, Shanahan 1 (Brown, Hull) pp, 11:12.
7, St Louis, Hull 1 (Emerson, Brown) pp, 11:29.
St Louis: 4    Power play: 4-2
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Brown              1    2    3
Emerson            0    2    2
Felsner            1    0    1
Hull               1    1    2
Janney             0    1    1
McRae              0    1    1
Shanahan           1    1    2
Chicago: 3    Power play: 7-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Brown              0    1    1
Chelios            0    1    1
Larmer             0    1    1
Matteau            0    1    1
Noonan             3    0    3
Roenick            0    1    1
Sutter             0    1    1
-----------------------------------------
Los Angeles                      1 3 2--6
Calgary                          0 1 2--3
First period
1, Los Angeles, Sydor 1 (Gretzky, Sandstrom) 0:16.
Second period
2, Calgary, Suter 1 (Fleury) sh, 2:48.
3, Los Angeles, Carson 1 (Shuchuk, Sydor) pp, 3:13.
4, Los Angeles, Huddy 1 (Taylor, Rychel) 3:37.
5, Los Angeles, McSorley 1 (unassisted) 6:36.
Third period
6, Los Angeles, Millen 1 (Granato, Donnelly) 1:06.
7, Calgary, Dahlquist 1 (Otto) 4:23.
8, Calgary, Yawney 1 (MacInnis, Reichel) 8:47.
9, Los Angeles, Carson 2 (Sandstrom, Robitaille) pp, 10:32.
Los Angeles: 6    Power play: 10-2
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Carson             2    0    2
Donnelly           0    1    1
Granato            0    1    1
Gretzky            0    1    1
Huddy              1    0    1
McSorley           1    0    1
Millen             1    0    1
Robitaille         0    1    1
Rychel             0    1    1
Sandstrom          0    2    2
Shuchuk            0    1    1
Sydor              1    1    2
Taylor             0    1    1
Calgary: 3    Power play: 8-0   Special goals:  sh: 1  Total: 1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Dahlquist          1    0    1
Fleury             0    1    1
MacInnis           0    1    1
Otto               0    1    1
Reichel            0    1    1
Suter              1    0    1
Yawney             1    0    1
-----------------------------------------
First period
1, NY Islanders, Ferraro 1 (Flatley, Vaske) 5:56.
Second period
No scoring.
Third period
2, Washington, Hunter 1 (Elynuik, Krygier) 3:18.
3, Washington, Hunter 2 (Khristich, Johansson) pp, 7:01.
4, Washington, Khristich 1 (Pivonka, Johansson) pp, 15:25.
Washington: 3    Power play: 5-2
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Elynuik            0    1    1
Hunter             2    0    2
Johansson          0    2    2
Khristich          1    1    2
Krygier            0    1    1
Pivonka            0    1    1
NY Islanders: 1    Power play: 5-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Ferraro            1    0    1
Flatley            0    1    1
Vaske              0    1    1
-----------------------------------------
Buffalo                          2 1 1 1--5
Boston                           0 2 2 0--4
First period
1, Buffalo, Hannan 1 (unassisted) 2:32.
2, Buffalo, LaFontaine 1 (Mogilny) 9:26.
Second period
3, Boston, Juneau 1 (Neely, Oates) pp, 7:20.
4, Boston, Neely 1 (Oates, Juneau) 14:42.
5, Buffalo, Mogilny 1 (Hawerchuk, Smehlik) 19:55.
Third period
6, Buffalo, Mogilny 2 (unassisted) 3:46.
7, Boston, Neely 2 (Juneau, Oates) 15:44.
8, Boston, Heinze 1 (Juneau) 17:00.
Overtime
9, Buffalo, Sweeney 1 (Khmylev, Smehlik) 11:03.
Buffalo: 5    Power play: 3-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Hannan             1    0    1
Hawerchuk          0    1    1
Khmylev            0    1    1
LaFontaine         1    0    1
Mogilny            2    1    3
Smehlik            0    2    2
Sweeney            1    0    1
Boston: 4    Power play: 7-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Heinze             1    0    1
Juneau             1    3    4
Neely              2    1    3
Oates              0    3    3
-----------------------------------------
Montreal                         1 1 0 0--2
Quebec                           0 0 2 1--3
First period
1, Montreal, Dionne 1 (Dipietro, Brunet) 5:52.
Second period
2, Montreal, Bellows 1 (Muller, Desjardins) 9:58.
Third period
3, Quebec, Rucinsky 1 (Lapointe, Sundin) pp, 18:31.
4, Quebec, Sakic 1 (Lapointe) 19:12.
Overtime
5, Quebec, Young 1 (Ricci, Duchesne) 16:49.
Quebec: 3    Power play: 4-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Duchesne           0    1    1
Lapointe           0    2    2
Ricci              0    1    1
Rucinsky           1    0    1
Sakic              1    0    1
Sundin             0    1    1
Young              1    0    1
Montreal: 2    Power play: 1-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Bellows            1    0    1
Brunet             0    1    1
Desjardins         0    1    1
Dionne             1    0    1
Dipietro           0    1    1
Muller             0    1    1
-----------------------------------------
Subject: College Hockey All-Star Roster
From: bdhissong@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"
Lines: 2
Could someone please post the rosters for the College Hockey All-Star game East
and West Rosters?  Thanks in advance.
From: holger.ohlwein@ap.mchp.sni.de (Holger Ohlwein)
Subject: Re: WC 93: Results, April 18
Reply-To: holger.ohlwein@ap.mchp.sni.de (Holger Ohlwein)
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Informationssysteme AG
Lines: 24
NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.21.16.6
In article <1993Apr21.085435.6895@ericsson.se>, etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson) writes:
>  OK, I forgot the Czech roster at home yesterday, but now I have it.
>  I don't know the teams for all players, so I would appreciate if
>  you guys could fill in the blanks for me (especially I think some
>  of these players play in Finland).
>
>  The Czech Republic
>  ------------------
>
>  Goaltenders:	 1. Petr Briza		(Finland somewhere, right?)
signed contract for EV Landshut, Germany
for the 1993/94 season
>  Defense:	 3. Leo Gudas		?
EC Hedos Muenchen, Germany
since 1992.
Holger
--
S I E M E N S    Holger Ohlwein   AP153   Otto-Hahn-Ring 6    8000 Muenchen 83
-------------    Tel: + 49 (89) 636-3746  Email: holger.ohlwein@ap.mchp.sni.de
N I X D O R F    Never put off till tomorrow what you can avoid all together.
From: icop@csa.bu.edu (Antonio Pera)
Subject: request for list of Boston Univ. players in NHL
Distribution: na
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Lines: 6
Originator: icop@csa
Being a proud BU alumnus, I'd like to get a list of BU players in
the NHL so I can keep an eye on their progress. A lot of Terriers are
graduating this year so I hope to see them soon in the NHL. If somebody
could post or send me a list, I'd appreciate it. Please note if the player
graduated from here or not.
From: Gibson.Bill@applelink.apple.com (Bill Gibson)
Subject: SHARKS:  Kingston Fired!!!
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Lines: 8
I just overheard that San Jose Coach George Kingston was officially
terminated today...  Maybe good news, maybe bad.  I kinda liked him, but he
seemed to lack a certain fire.
Bill Gibson                  : Gibson.Bill@applelink.apple.com
Chief Technical Sponge       : AppleLink:  GIBSON.BILL
Apple Computer, Inc.         : Just say: SHARKS!!!
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Detroit-Toronto?
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 10
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
What's the deal?  c.s.h. has nothing on it yet.  Is it in OT, is it over,
what?  I want to know!  We all want to know!  Where's Roger when you need
him?!?!?!?!  :-)
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"A cow is not a vegetarian dish."  -- Keith Keller, 1993
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Re: Goalie mask poll
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 15
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
In article <93743@hydra.gatech.EDU> gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak) writes:
>Current votes for favorite goalie masks (3pts - 1st, 2pts - 2nd, 1pt - 3rd)
>Others receiving less than 4pts: Mike Vernon (Cal), Clint
> Glenn Healy (NYI), Toy Espo (???), Gilles Gratton (???),
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is this Tony Esposito?  If memory serves me correctly, Chicago.  God I
hope I am right, otherwise I will never hear the end of it. ;-)
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"A cow is not a vegetarian dish."  -- Keith Keller, 1993
From: mfoster@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Marc Foster)
Subject: Final season CHL stuff
Originator: news@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu
Distribution: na
Nntp-Posting-Host: essex.ecn.uoknor.edu
Organization: University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK
Lines: 218
Here are the final stats for the CHL for the 1992-1993 season.
Central Hockey League
5840 S. Memorial Drive
Suite 205
Tulsa, OK  74145
Phone:  (918) 664-8881
Fax:    (918) 664-2215
Founder and President - Ray Miron
Commissioner - Monte Miron
Marketing Director - Jim Goodman
Information Director - Eric Kolb
Each team is owned by the league, with local intrests controlling day to
day operations.  Working agreements and NHL affiliations are up to each
team.
Each team has a $100,000 salary cap for 17 total players
(16 dress up).
Each team is limited to 11 visas, meaning at least 6 players must be
Americans (Ignore this rule if you are Tulsa, they only had 2 Americans
on the roster during the playoffs).
Teams play in Wichita, Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Memphis, Fort Worth, and Dallas.
Future expansion plans include Houston, San Antonio, Baton Rouge, Little Rock,
El Paso, Albuquerque, Tuscon, and Amarillo.  Austin is a possibility if Dallas
has to move.  Houston and San Antonio are in for this fall, with Baton Rouge
and Little Rock likely for 94-95.
TEAMS:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fort Worth Fire                 | Wichita Thunder
|
Arena:    Tarrant Co. Conv. Cen. (11,342) | Kansas Coliseum (9,686)
Colors:   Red and Black                   | Blue , silver, and black
GM:       George Branum                   | Bill Shuck
Coach:    Pete Mahavolich                 | Doug Sheddan
Phone #:  (817) 335-FIRE                  | (316) 264-4625
Season Tix: $300 / $240                   | $250 / $170
Single Tix: $12 / $10                     | $9 / $6
Radio:                                    |
Announcers:                               |
|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dallas Freeze                   | Tulsa Oilers
|
Arena:    Fair Park Coliseum (7,500)      | Civic Center (6,847)
Colors:   Teal and Black                  | Orange and Blue
GM:       Tom Koch                        | Jeff D. Lund
Coach:    Ron Flockhart                   | Gary Unger      Personal Guardians
Phone #:  (214) 421-PUCK                  | (918) 663-5888  ------------------
Season Tix: $300 / $240                   |                    Ray and Monte
Single Tix: $12 / $10 / $7                | $9 / $6                Miron
Radio:    KSKY-AM 660                     | KTRT-AM 1270
Announcers-Bruce LeVine                   | Jeff Brucculeri
Mark Stone                     | Jeff Bowen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Memphis River Kings             | Oklahoma City Blazers
|
Arena:    Mid-South Coliseum (9,384)      | Myriad (13,399) & State Fair Arena
Colors:   Gold and Black                  | Red, Yellow, and Black   (9,760)
GM:       Jim Riggs                       | Brad Lund
Coach:    Steve Carlson                   | Mike McEwen
Phone #:  (901) 278-9009                  | (405) 235-PUCK
Season Tix:                               | $250 / $170
Single Tix: $9 / $6                       | $9 / $6
Radio:    KREC-AM 600                     | WWLS-AM 640
Announcers-Dave Woloshin                  | John Brooks
Tom Stocker                    | Brian Barnhart
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
92-93 regular season standings
W  L OTL PTS   GF   GA   PIM  AVG ATTDNCE (% cap)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oklahoma City Blazers.... 39 18  3   81  291  232  1561  7,827   64.2 %
Tulsa Ice Oilers......... 35 22  3   73  270  230  1430  5,547   81.0 %
Dallas Freeze............ 31 25  4   66  276  242  1604  4,427   59.0 %
Memphis RiverKings....... 26 27  7   59  253  272  1670  5,590   59.6 %
Fort Worth Fire.......... 24 29  7   55  252  288  1747  4,920   43.7 %
Wichita Thunder.......... 25 33  2   52  242  320  1876  4,474   46.2 %
Playoffs:  Tulsa defeated Dallas, 4 games to 3 (WLLWWLW)
Oklahoma City defeated Memphis, 4 games to 2 (WWLLWW)
Levin Trophy Finals:  Tulsa defeated Oklahoma City, 4 games to 1 (WWLWW)
Playoff MVP:  Tony Fiore, Tulsa (special votes to Ray and Monte Miron)
Team vs. Team: 92-93
--------------------
Dallas  Fort Worth  Memphis  Oklahoma City  Tulsa  Wichita
Dallas.......... -----     9-2-1     5-5-2       5-6-1      5-7-0   7-5-0
Fort Worth...... 3-7-2     -----     4-6-2       4-8-0      8-3-1   5-5-2
Memphis......... 7-4-1     8-3-1     -----       2-8-2      2-8-2   7-4-1
Oklahoma City... 7-4-1     8-3-1    10-2-0       -----      6-6-0   8-3-1
Tulsa........... 7-5-0     4-7-1    10-2-0       6-6-0      -----   8-2-2
Wichita......... 5-7-0     7-3-2     5-7-0       4-8-0      4-8-0   -----
Power Play Statistics               Penalty Killng Statistics
PPG  Opp  ShGA   Pct.               PPG Saves Opp  ShG   Pct.
Okla. City    70  275     2  25.45  Okla. City    58   241 299   16  80.60
Tulsa         72  291    12  24.74  Dallas        68   278 346   14  80.34
Dallas        64  286    10  22.37  Tulsa         77   276 353   16  78.18
Fort Worth    85  387    16  21.96  Wichita       75   235 310    5  75.806
Wichita       81  396    24  20.45  Memphis       83   260 343   12  75.801
Memphis       65  329    12  19.75  Fort Worth    76   237 313   13  75.71
Penalty Record
10-Min  Game Gross        Oppn
PIM  Avg.  Minor  Major  Bench   Misc  Misc  Misc  Match  PIM
Wichita     1876  31.3   433     84     20     22    24     0     3   1998
Fort Worth  1747  29.1   471     59     29     26    23     2     0   1911
Memphis     1670  27.8   480     56     28     28    13     1     1   1593
Dallas      1604  26.7   477     60      2     20    15     0     0   1534
Okla. City  1561  26.0   438     67     14     14    21     0     0   1609
Tulsa       1430  23.8   505     26      6     21     8     0     0   1243
Scoring By Period
1st Period  2nd Period  3rd Period  Overtime  Shootout  Totals
GF  GA      GF  GA      GF  GA     GF  GA    GF  GA   GF  GA
Dallas        76  82     106  82      90  74      0   1     4   3   276 242
Fort Worth    70  81      92 112      84  88      3   5     3   2   252 288
Memphis       66  88     101  89      82  88      2   3     2   4   253 272
Okla.City     98  87      82  71     108  71      1   1     2   2   291 232
Tulsa         99  58      92  83      76  86      3   1     0   2   270 230
Wichita       79  92      73 109      84 117      2   0     4   2   242 320
92-93 All-Star Team
-------------------
Position      First Team                    Second Team
--------      ----------                    -----------
Goaltender... Tony Martino, Tulsa           Robert Desjardins, Wichita (tie)
Alan Perry, Oklahoma City (tie)
Defensemen... Dave Doucette, Dallas         Mike Berger, Dallas
Guy Girouard, Oklahoma City   Tom Karalis, Tulsa
Center....... Carl Boudreau, Oklahoma City  Joe Burton, Oklahoma City
Left Wing.... Sylvain Fleury, Oklahoma City Doug Lawrence, Tulsa
Right Wing... Daniel Larin, Oklahoma City   Tom Mutch, Memphis (tie
Sylvain Naud, Tulsa (tie)
Regular Season MVP:  Sylvain Fleury, Oklahoma City
Rookie of the Year:  Bobby Desjardins, Wichita
Leading Defenseman:  Dave Doucette, Dallas
Leading Goaltender:  Tony Martino, Tulsa
Scoring Leaders:
----------------
POINTS              Team  GP  G  A  PTS   GOALS             Team  GP  G
Fleury, Sylvain     OKC   59 48 53  101   Fleury, Sylvain   OKC   53 48
Lawrence, Doug      TUL   57 22 73   95   Larin, Daniel     OKC   48 43
Naud, Sylvain       TUL   58 39 48   87   Mutch, Tom        MEM   59 43
Mutch, Tom          MEM   59 43 38   81   Thibodeau, Ken    MEM   54 40
Hall, Taylor        TUL   58 35 45   80   Naud, Sylvain     TUL   58 39
Thibodeau, Ken      MEM   54 40 35   75   Taylor, Jason     DAL   60 38
Anchikoski, Wayne   DAL   57 35 37   72
Boudreau, Carl      OKC   48 27 44   71   ASSISTS           Team  GP  A
Larin, Daniel       OKC   48 43 27   70   Lawrence, Doug    TUL   57 73
Taylor, Jason       DAL   60 38 32   70   Fleury, Sylvain   OKC   59 53
Dent, Ted           WCH   60 25 44   69   Naud, Sylvain     TUL   58 48
Sanderson, Mike     FTW   60 37 31   68   Doucette, Dave    DAL   50 46
Gatti, Dave         WCH   58 35 32   67   Hall, Taylor      TUL   58 45
Nobili, Mario       TUL   54 31 34   65   Girouard, Guy     OKC   60 45
Cyr, Keith          WCH   58 21 44   65
D'Amario, Peter     MEM   60 28 35   63   PENALTY MINUTES   Team  GP PIM
Johnston, Scot      MEM   51 23 40   63   Aubrey, Ron       FTW   28 237
Burton, Joe         OKC   55 35 26   61   Karalis, Tom      TUL   56 235
Simoni, Steve       OKC   56 33 28   61   Johnson, Craig    OKC   50 219
Hornak, Ernest      FTW   52 22 37   59   Neish, Greg       WCH   34 212
Fiore, Tony         TUL   37 23 35   58   Batten, John      MEM   29 210
Doucette, Dave      DAL   50 10 46   56   Taylor, Jason     DAL   60 210
LEADING GOALTENDERS (20 or more games)
TEAM GPI  MIN  GAA  W-L-OTL  EN SO   GA  Saves  Save Pct.
Martino, Tony       TUL  39 2182 3.66  23-13-2   0  2  133  1186   .899
Perry, Alan         OKC  40 2406 3.72  25-13-2   3  0  149  1304   .897
Zanier, Mike        DAL  40 2384 3.78  24-14-2   3  1  150  1223   .891
Mindjimba, Antoine  MEM  56 3097 4.15  26-21-6   4  1  214  1603   .882
Smith, Greg         DAL  21 1243 4.15   7-11-2   0  0   86   753   .897
Desjardins, Bobby   WCH  52 2849 4.63  21-26-2   6  1  220  1877   .895
Belley, Roch        FTW  33 1728 4.75  14-13-2   3  0  141   974   .874
Other Goalies
TEAM GPI  MIN  GAA  W-L-OTL  EN SO   GA  Saves  Save Pct.
Flatt, Brian        TUL  11  488  3.44   4-3-1   1  1   28  274    .907
Krake, Paul         OKC  17 1029  3.50  13-3-1   0  0   60  583    .907
Loewen, Jamie       TUL  13  681  3.79   6-5-0   1  0   43  399    .903
Ocello, Matt        FTW   4  179  3.69   3-1-0   1  0   11  100    .901
Ocello, Matt        TUL   1   34  5.29   0-0-0   0  0    3   13    .813
(Totals)                  5  213  3.94   3-1-0   1  0   14  113    .890
Raymond, Eric       TUL   3  181  3.98   2-1-0   0  0   12   87    .879
O'Hara, Michael     FTW  18  911  4.28   6-6-2   0  0   65  559    .896
Vasko, Steve        MEM  15  535  5.16   0-6-1   4  0   46  235    .836
Trentadue, Rocco    FTW  17  746  4.99   1-9-3   3  0   62  365    .855
Trentadue, Rocco    OKC   2  120  6.50   0-2-0   0  0   13   93    .877
(Totals)                 19  866  5.20  1-11-3   3  0   75  458    .859
Harvey, Alain       WCH   5  240  5.50   2-2-0   2  0   22  126    .851
Gosselin, Yannick   WCH  10  345  6.43   2-3-0   0  0   37  227    .860
Gosselin, Yannick   OKC   1   60  5.00   1-0-0   0  0    5   26    .839
(Totals)                 11  405  6.22   3-3-0   0  0   42  253    .896
Caton, Murray       WCH   2  120  9.00   0-2-0   0  0   18   84    .824
McDonnell, Dan      TUL   1   34  8.83   0-0-0   0  0    5   24    .828
Sauer, E.J.         TUL   1   12 10.00   0-0-0   0  0    2    4    .667
Clark, Joel         WCH   2   48 10.00   0-0-0   0  0    8   29    .784
Wachter, Steve      WCH   2   24 12.50   0-0-0   0  0    5    6    .545
Marc Dee Foster, r.s.h contact for the CHL
From: mmb@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Michael Burger)
Subject: More TV Info
Distribution: na
Nntp-Posting-Host: lamar.acns.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523
Lines: 36
United States Coverage:
Sunday April 18
N.J./N.Y.I. at Pittsburgh - 1:00 EDT to Eastern Time Zone
ABC - Gary Thorne and Bill Clement
St. Louis at Chicago - 12:00 CDT and 11:00 MDT - to Central/Mountain Zones
ABC - Mike Emerick and Jim Schoenfeld
Los Angeles at Calgary - 12:00 PDT and 11:00 ADT - to Pacific/Alaskan Zones
ABC - Al Michaels and John Davidson
Tuesday, April 20
N.J./N.Y.I. at Pittsburgh - 7:30 EDT Nationwide
ESPN - Gary Thorne and Bill Clement
Thursday, April 22 and Saturday April 24
To Be Announced - 7:30 EDT Nationwide
ESPN - To Be Announced
Canadian Coverage:
Sunday, April 18
Buffalo at Boston - 7:30 EDT Nationwide
TSN - ???
Tuesday, April 20
N.J.D./N.Y. at Pittsburgh - 7:30 EDT Nationwide
TSN - ???
Wednesday, April 21
St. Louis at Chicago - 8:30 EDT Nationwide
TSN - ???
Organization: City University of New York
From: Harold Zazula <DLMQC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject: Octopus in Detroit?
Lines: 9
I was watching the Detroit-Minnesota game last night and thought I saw an
octopus on the ice after Ysebaert scored to tie the game at two. What gives?
(is there some custom to throw octopuses on the ice in Detroit?)
-------
Not Responsible -- Dain Bramaged!!
Harold Zazula
dlmqc@cunyvm.cuny.edu
hzazula@alehouse.acc.qc.edu
From: jmd@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (joseph.m.dakes)
Subject: Re: Flyers [Re: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)...]
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Keywords: NHL, awards
Lines: 67
In article <1993Apr15.190132.29787@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>, seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr) writes:
> So in other words, if Roussel shuts out the Sharks and Soderstrom shuts out
> the Penguins, that's immaterial because it was the coaches decision? Come on,
> Joe, think about what you're saying! Who they played is VERY significant.
> Why they played them is what's irrelevent. A low GAA against good teams
> is better than a low GAA against bad teams in the context of comparing two
> goaltenders. A low GAA is better then a higher GAA. A low GAA against good
> teams is much, much better than a higher GAA against bad teams in the context
> of comparing two goaltenders.
Let's start over.  I'm not arguing about who is the better goaltender.  I'd
take Soderstrom right now.  What I am saying is that Roussel can be a #1
netminder.  The GAA difference is less than half a goal per game (less than
that after last night), their save percentages are close, and their records
are similar.  And with that, I just don't see how you can label Roussel as
the most disappointing player on the Flyers this season.
You say Soderstrom played against better competition.  That may very well
be, but there is no way of knowing how Roussel would have performed in
those games.  Besides, against the better scoring teams like Pittsburgh,
the defense is more keyed up than they are against San Jose.
> The same
> for Roussel in the Ranger game. Two real scoring chances, one he made a
> great play, the other he was saved by a mistake from the other player. If
> you were judging Roussel on that game alone, you have very little to go by.
But I'm not just judging Roussel on that game alone.  I've seen him play
for the past two seasons in Philly and before that in Hershey.  It's just
my opinion, but I think he's got what it takes.  Of course, I thought that
about Mark LaForest, too.  But I never did about Wendell Young.  So I'm
batting .500 in judging Hershey talent since the Hextall-era.
As for the Rangers game, you can say he was saved by a mistake by the
offensive player if you like.  But Rou had his leg in position to make the
save.  If he didn't, it wouldn't have mattered if the Rangers player didn't
get the puck up or not.  It would have been a goal.  On a breakaway that's
what the goalie wants to do, take away as much as possible and force the
shooter to beat him.
> But if you were to look at the 0-0 tie against the Habs, you saw a goalie
> stand on his head to get that shutout. THAT was a #1 goalie in action. Roussel
> doesn't have a game like that in him.
I seem to remember Roussel doing an excellent job against Pittsurgh on
opening night to give the Flyers a tie against the two-time defending
champs.  And not to take anything away from Soderstrom because he was
senational in that game agains the Habs.  But you can't tell me that a
Montreal player had an open net to shoot at some point during that game
and just flat out missed it.  Mistakes, both on offense and defense are
part of the game.  Or there'd never be shutouts.
Anyway, I'm happy the Flyers have both Soderstrom and Roussel and
I'm not going to argue about it anymore.  Besides, with the current
7-game winning streak and expectations soaring for next year, I
don't want to piss you off to the point that you don't sell me any
tickets next season:-).
\ \
Joe Dakes                                 \/\
AT&T Microelectronics                      \/\
555 Union Boulevard                         \ \
Allentown, PA  18103                     LET'S GO FLYERS!
alux1!jmd                                     \ \
jmd@aluxpo.att.com                             \ \__________
\____/_//__/
From: lli+@cs.cmu.edu (Lori Iannamico)
Subject: Re: Goalie masks
Nntp-Posting-Host: lli.mach.cs.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Lines: 21
Tom Barrasso wore a great mask, one time, last season.  He unveiled it
at a game in Boston.
It was all black, with Pgh city scenes on it.  The "Golden Triangle"
(Pgh's downtown area where the 3 rivers meet) graced the top, along
with a steel mill on one side and the Civic Arena (I think) on the
other.   On the back of the helmet was the old Pens' logo (the really
fat little penguin with the blue scarf) the current (at the time) Pens
logo, and a space for the "new" (now current) logo.
Tommy had designed the mask, and his mother (an artist) painted it
for him.
But while wearing the mask, the Pens got thumped by the Bruins.  The
very next game, Tommy was back to the old paint job.  A great mask
done in by a goalie's superstition.
Lori
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Pens Info needed
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Lines: 20
In article <1993Apr16.074054.3124@jyu.fi> mikkot@romulus.math.jyu.fi (Mikko Tarkiainen) writes:
>Coaching news:
>
>	       Alpo Suhonen (ex-Jets) to Jokerit (now verified),
>               Boris Majorov (ex-Jokerit) to Tappara,
>	       Vasili Tichonov (ex-Assat) to San Jose Sharks
>                                             (assistant coach),
>	       Sakari Pietila to Lulea (silver team in Elite-serien)
Wow.  So that's probably the reason why current assistant coach Drew Ramenda
hinted that he won't be back.  Thanks for the news, Mikko; can you (or any
of our Finnish netters) comment on Tichonov?
===============================================================================
GO CALGARY FLAMES!  Al MacInnis for Norris!  Gary Roberts for Hart and Smythe!
GO EDMONTON OILERS!  Go for playoffs next year!  Stay in Edmonton!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
rec.sport.hockey contact for the San Jose Sharks
From: d_jaracz@oz.plymouth.edu (David R. Jaracz)
Subject: Re: Octopus in Detroit?
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, NH.
Lines: 16
In article <93106.092246DLMQC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Harold Zazula <DLMQC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>I was watching the Detroit-Minnesota game last night and thought I saw an
>octopus on the ice after Ysebaert scored to tie the game at two. What gives?
No no no!!!  It's a squid!  Keep the tradition alive!  (Kinda like the
fish at UNH games....)
>(is there some custom to throw octopuses on the ice in Detroit?)
>-------
>Not Responsible -- Dain Bramaged!!
>
>Harold Zazula
>dlmqc@cunyvm.cuny.edu
>hzazula@alehouse.acc.qc.edu
From: nhmas@gauss.med.harvard.edu (Mark Shneyder 432-4219)
Subject: Re: TV Schedule for Next Week
Distribution: na
Organization: HMS
Lines: 54
NNTP-Posting-Host: gauss.med.harvard.edu
In article <Apr16.043426.69352@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> mmb@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Michael Burger) writes:
>United States TV Schedule:
>April 18   Devils/Islanders at Pittsburgh   1 EST  ABC  (to Eastern time zone)
>April 18   St. Louis at Chicago             12 CDT ABC  (to Cent/Mou time zones)
>April 18   Los Angeles at Calgary           12 PDT ABC  (to Pacific time zone)
>April 20   Devils/Islanders at Pittsburgh   7:30   ESPN
>April 22   TBA                              7:30   ESPN
>April 24   TBA                              7:30   ESPN
>
A little supplement Basic Mike's info  :
For Sundday's opener on ABC, these are the announcing crews :
Devils/Isles at Pittsburgh - Gary Thorne(play-by-play),Bill Clement(color)
and Al Morganti roaming the halls outside the dressing rooms.
This telecast will primarily seen on the East Coast.
St.Louis at Chicago - Mike Emrick(play - by play),Jim Schoendfeld(color)
and Tom Mees roaming the halls.
This telecast will primarily be seen in the Midwest and parts of the South.
LA at Calgary - Al "Do You Believe in Mircales?" Michaels(play by play),
John Davidson(color) and Mark Jones as a roaming reporter.
This telecast will be seen in the Western USA.
Montreal's naitive,Jon Saunders will be hosting in the studio.
ABC will do "Up and Close and Personal" with Mario during Saturday's
Wide World of Sports(4:30EDT).
Sunday will be the first NHL playoff or regular network telecast in 13 years...
not counting those silly All-Star games on NBC for the last few years...
For Sunday's games,ABC will use 8 mikes(2 behind on the goal),super-super-slo-mo,
close-ups of player's faces at face-offs. ESPN/ABC will not be able to
use its new favorite toy,the ice-level shot, in Pittsburgh where too many
seats would have to removed to employ it...
In case of a blowout in progress in Pittsburgh,ABC will switch to Chicago
game but will come back to the Pittsburgh game for updates or if the game
gets closer(Ha!)..
ABC expects huge ratings(by hockey standards) since all 3 Top US TV-markets
are involved - NY metro area(NY Islanders/NJ Devils),Chicago(BlackHawks),
and LA(Kings).
Stay tuned,
Thanks Mike,
-PPV Mark
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: RUMOUR - Keenan signs with Rangers?
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Lines: 14
UPI Clarinet has just relayed a "scoop" from the Toronto Sun
(or was that Star?  I like the Star myself ...) that Iron Mike
Keenan has come to an agreement with the New York Rangers for
next season.  Interestingly, this comes the day after the Times
Sports had an editorial about how the Rangers need their own
Pat Riley ... who cares about what happens after next season?
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: gibson@nukta.geop.ubc.ca (Brad Gibson)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Organization: Dept. of Astronomy / Univ. of British Columbia
Lines: 48
NNTP-Posting-Host: nukta.astro.ubc.ca
In article <1993Apr16.160228.24945@sol.UVic.CA> gballent@hudson.UVic.CA writes:
>
>In article 9088@blue.cis.pitt.edu, jrmst8+@pitt.edu (Joseph R Mcdonald) writes:
>
>>Jagr has a higher +/-, but Francis has had more points.  And take it from
>>an informed observer, Ronnie Francis has had a *much* better season than
>>Jaromir Jagr.  This is not to take anything away from Jaro, who had a
>>decent year (although it didn't live up to the expectations of some).
>
>Bowman tended to overplay Francis at times because he is a Bowman-style
>player.  He plays hard at all times, doesn't disregard his defensive
>responsibilities and is a good leader.  Bowman rewarded him be increasing his
>ice time.
>
>Jagr can be very arrogant and juvenile and display a "me first" attitude.
>This rubbed Bowman the wrong way and caused him to lose some ice time.
>
>Throughout the year, Francis consistently recieved more ice time than
>Jagr.  Althouhg I have never seen stats on this subject, I am pretty
>sure that Jagr had more points per minute played that Francis.  When
>you add to that Jagr's better +/- rating, I think it becomes evident
>that Jagr had a better season- not that Francis had a bad one.
>
Actually, what I think has become more evident, is that you are determined to
flaunt your ignorance at all cost.  Jagr did not have a better season than
Francis ... to suggest otherwise is an insult to those with a modicum of
hockey knowledge.  Save your almost maniacal devotion to the almighty
plus/minus ... it is the most misleading hockey stat available.
Until the NHL publishes a more useful quantifiable statistic including ice
time per game and some measure of its "quality" (i.e., is the player put out
in key situations like protecting a lead late in the game; is he matched up
against the other team's top one or two lines; short-handed, etc), I would
much rather see the +/- disappear altogether instead of having its dubious
merits trumpeted by those with little understanding of its implications.
Brad
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brad K. Gibson                           INTERNET: gibson@geop.ubc.ca
Dept. of Geophysics & Astronomy
#129-2219 Main Mall                      PHONE: (604)822-6722
University of British Columbia           FAX:   (604)822-6047
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
V6T 1Z4
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: alan@lancaster.nsc.com (The Hepburn)
Subject: Re: Hockey and the Hispanic community
Organization: National Semiconductor Corporation
Lines: 73
In article <saross01.734885336@starbase.spd.louisville.edu>, saross01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (Stacey A. Ross) writes:
|> In <C5I2s2.3Bt@odin.corp.sgi.com> rickc@wrigley.corp.sgi.com (Richard Casares) writes:
|> >You'll have a hard time selling any sport to a community that
|> >can't play it on account of availability or financial reasons.
|> >Hockey is pretty much a sport for the white and well off.
|>
|> What?! White, yes. Well off, definitely not. Hockey season ticket owners have
|> the lowest average income of any of the four major North American sports.
Do you have a basis for this claim?  Try these stats (taken from Playboy Magazine
June 1989):
Percentage of pro football fans who have attended college:    39.7
Percentage of pro baseball fans who have attended college:    41.5
Percentage of pro basketball fans who have attended college:  39.9
Percentage of pro hockey fans who have attended college:      54.6
Percentage of pro football fans who earn more than $50K:      34.9
Percentage of pro baseball fans who make more than $50K:      22.7
Percentage of pro basketball fans who make more than $50K:    27.7
Percentage of pro hackey fans who make more than $50K:        44.0
|>
|> And think of where the majority of hockey players come from. From a farm out
|> in Boondock, Saskatchewan or Weedville, Alberta.
|>
The biggest advantage that kids from Boondock or Weedville have is the
availability of ice.  In the San Jose area we have a population of 800,000
and that population is served by 2 ice arenas.  In contrast, Kamloops,
British Columbia has a population of about 50,000 and has 5 rinks!  There
are also myriad ponds, pools, etc that freeze in the winter.  Down here
it's hard to find a kid without a bicycle; up there it's hard to find a kid
without a pair of skates.  And before you say "what does he know? He's from
California." let me say that I was born and raised in Trail, British Columbia,
a town of about 8,000 with lots of ice in the winter.  My father did radio
play by play for the local team, the Trail Smokeaters, who by  the way, were
the last Canadian team to win the World Championship (back in 1961).  I was
on skates almost as soon as I could walk, and have been playing recreational
hockey for about 35 years.
|> >When was the last time you saw a hockey league in the inner city.
|> >The insurance alone is a big enough barrier.
|>
|> The inner city isn't the only place that is poor.
|> I think the biggest barrier to hockey in the inner city is... no ICE to play on.
Lack of ice is a big factor, but costs is a bigger factor.  Both my kids play for
the Santa Clara Valley Hockey Association and this season, which just ended,
cost me $75 per kid for membership in Hockey USA, plus $750 per kid for club
dues.  The Hockey USA fees cover excess medical insurance, and the club dues
cover ice time, officials, trophies, etc.  Other areas have similar fees, unless
the city government subsidises some of the costs, as Stockton does.
By the way; most ice arenas are located in what could be called the "inner city"
areas.  Eastridge and Vallco are exceptions ... Redwood City's rink is in an
industrial area on Bay Rd, near 101, Berkeley's is near Ashby and Martin Luther
King, Stockton's is in Oak Park, Sacramento's is in an older section of downtown
(I forget the name of the street), Fresno's is out on the edge of town, just west
of 99.  Santa Rosa's is a nice rink, but it's in an older section of town.
Dublin's is outside of town, off 580.  Most of the rinks are old, and expensive
to run, with huge electric bills and insurance premiums.  If you want to buy ice
time expect to pay around $100 per hour at any of these rinks.  Some of them
give you a 60 minute hour for your money; others give you a 50 minute hour and
include the resurfacing time in the fee.
--
Alan Hepburn           "A man doesn't know what he knows
National Semiconductor       until he knows what he doesn't know."
Santa Clara, Ca
alan@berlioz.nsc.com                              Thomas Carlyle
From: wein1@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (david weinberg)
Subject: Re: Octopus in Detroit?
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
The tradition of the octopus started back in the 1950s. It was tradition to toss an octopus out on the ice during the first play-off games because you needed eight wins for Stanely Cup.  Today people toss octupi anytime it gets near the   play-offs.
Lines: 3
NNTP-Posting-Host: sleepy.cc.utexas.edu
David
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: RUMOUR - Keenan signs with Rangers?
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 22
In article <1993Apr16.171347.784@news.columbia.edu> gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>
>UPI Clarinet has just relayed a "scoop" from the Toronto Sun
>(or was that Star?  I like the Star myself ...) that Iron Mike
>Keenan has come to an agreement with the New York Rangers for
>next season.  Interestingly, this comes the day after the Times
>Sports had an editorial about how the Rangers need their own
>Pat Riley ... who cares about what happens after next season?
>
The rumour was basically everywhere in Toronto based on reports
that Keenan has told both San Jose and Philadelphia that he
was no longer interested in pursuing further negotiations with
either team.
The Ranger announcement is supposed to happen tomorrow supposedly.
The Rangers have so many veterans that they had to get a coach
with "weight" and a proven record...and whom they know Messier respects.
Gerald
From: jbrown@vax.cns.muskingum.edu
Subject: Blackhawks win!!!
Organization: Muskingum College
Lines: 10
The Hawks win!!  Jermey Roenick scored his 50 th goal and the Hawks put the
Leafs in their place, the losers column.  If the Leafs can not even beat the
Hawks in a match that had little or no meaning I will hate to see them against
the Wings.
Oh btw I laugh at rm, that jerky!!!
GO HAWKS!!!
JB
From: georgeh@gjhsun (George H)
Subject: Re: Octopus in Detroit?
Organization: Michigan State University
Lines: 17
NNTP-Posting-Host: gjhsun.cl.msu.edu
Harold Zazula <DLMQC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>I was watching the Detroit-Minnesota game last night and thought I saw an
>octopus on the ice after Ysebaert scored to tie the game at two. What gives?
>(is there some custom to throw octopuses on the ice in Detroit?)
It is a long standing good luck Redwing's tradition to throw an octopus
on the ice during a Stanley Cup game. They say it dates back to '52
at the Olympia when the Wings became the 1st team (I think) to sweep
the cup in 8 games. A lot hardet to throw one from Joe Louis seats
than from the old Olympia balcony, though.
Funniest I ever saw was when some Tiger fans threw one on the field
during a Detroit/Toronto baseball game ...  I was living in California
and the folks I was watching with had never heard of hockey and were
incredulous when I recognized the octopus BEFORE the camera closeup !!
From: smorris@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Morris )
Subject: Re: Blackhawks win!!!
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: venus.lerc.nasa.gov
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
In <1993Apr16.140953.5025@vax.cns..edu>, jbrown@vax.cns.muskingum.edu writes...
>The Hawks win!!  Jermey Roenick scored his 50 th goal and the Hawks put the
>Leafs in their place, the losers column.  If the Leafs can not even beat the
>Hawks in a match that had little or no meaning I will hate to see them against
>the Wings.
>
>Oh btw I laugh at rm, that jerky!!!
I would appreciate it if you would not refer to Mr. Maynard by his
initials.  Thanks, see you in the Norris finals.
Ron
**********
"And one of my major goals is to leave the next president a new set
of things to worry about.  I'm getting bored reading the same problems
in the paper, decade after decade.  I want people to have to deal
with new problems."
... President Bill Clinton   2-4-93
From: dreier@jaffna.berkeley.edu (Roland Dreier)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department.
Lines: 59
<1qmtd1INNr1l@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jaffna.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: gibson@nukta.geop.ubc.ca's message of 16 Apr 1993 18:20:17 GMT
In article <1qmtd1INNr1l@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca> gibson@nukta.geop.ubc.ca (Brad Gibson) writes:
In article <1993Apr16.160228.24945@sol.UVic.CA> gballent@hudson.UVic.CA writes:
>
>In article 9088@blue.cis.pitt.edu, jrmst8+@pitt.edu (Joseph R Mcdonald) writes:
>
>>Jagr has a higher +/-, but Francis has had more points.  And take it from
>>an informed observer, Ronnie Francis has had a *much* better season than
>>Jaromir Jagr.  This is not to take anything away from Jaro, who had a
>>decent year (although it didn't live up to the expectations of some).
>
>Bowman tended to overplay Francis at times because he is a Bowman-style
>player.  He plays hard at all times, doesn't disregard his defensive
>responsibilities and is a good leader.  Bowman rewarded him be increasing his
>ice time.
>
>Jagr can be very arrogant and juvenile and display a "me first" attitude.
>This rubbed Bowman the wrong way and caused him to lose some ice time.
>
>Throughout the year, Francis consistently recieved more ice time than
>Jagr.  Althouhg I have never seen stats on this subject, I am pretty
>sure that Jagr had more points per minute played that Francis.  When
>you add to that Jagr's better +/- rating, I think it becomes evident
>that Jagr had a better season- not that Francis had a bad one.
>
Actually, what I think has become more evident, is that you are determined to
flaunt your ignorance at all cost.  Jagr did not have a better season than
Francis ... to suggest otherwise is an insult to those with a modicum of
hockey knowledge.  Save your almost maniacal devotion to the almighty
plus/minus ... it is the most misleading hockey stat available.
Until the NHL publishes a more useful quantifiable statistic including ice
time per game and some measure of its "quality" (i.e., is the player put out
in key situations like protecting a lead late in the game; is he matched up
against the other team's top one or two lines; short-handed, etc), I would
much rather see the +/- disappear altogether instead of having its dubious
merits trumpeted by those with little understanding of its implications.
Thank you for posting this.  As the person who first brought up the
fact that Jagr has a much higher +/- than Francis, I can assure you
that I brought it up as an example of the absurdity of +/-
comparisons, even on the same team.  I never, ever thought that anyone
would argue that Jagr's higher +/- actually reflected better two-way
play.
In my opinion, Francis's low +/- is purely a result of him being asked
to play against opponents top scorers at all times; the fact that he
can chip in 100 points while neutralizing the other team's top center
is a testament to how valuable he is, even if his +/- suffers.  On the
other hand, Jagr, for how big, fast and skilled he is, can't even get
90 points, no matter how inflated his +/- is.
(By the way, don't get me wrong -- I like Jagr.  He may be a lazy
floater, but he turns it on at exactly the right times -- like
overtime of playoff games).
--
Roland Dreier                                        dreier@math.berkeley.edu
From: georgeh@gjhsun (George H)
Subject: Re: President Trophy winner missing playoffs ???
Organization: Michigan State University
Lines: 17
NNTP-Posting-Host: gjhsun.cl.msu.edu
jstrangi@hora.seas.upenn.edu (Jim Strangio) writes:
>In article <13APR93.17376172.0059@VM1.MCGILL.CA> CCDB@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CCDB000) writes:
>When was the last time a President's Trophy winner fell to last place
>the following year?  A long time, I'd bet.
>--
Well I think it in 1969 the Montreal Canadians finished 1st (although
there was no President's cup in those days) and missed the playoffs
in 1970. I do recall that the 1970 playoff picture wasn't decided until
the final day, when the NY Rangers defeated the RedWings. The tie-breaker was
the number of goals for (if I remember correctly), so the Rangers played
with an empty net for the entire game. Some Hab loyalists accused
the Wings of 'throwing' the game to keep them out, but as I recall,
Gordie and Delvecchio had the flu, so coach Sid Abel sat them out,
and the Rangers swarmed the RedWings most of the night.
From: gak@wrs.com (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re: Octopus in Detroit?
Reply-To: gak@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Lines: 10
Nntp-Posting-Host: gakbox
It's in the FAQ.
have fun
gak
---
Richard Stueven       AHA# 22584 |----------| He has erected a multitude of new
Internet:            gak@wrs.com |----GO----| offices, and sent hither swarms
ATTMAIL: ...!attmail!gakhaus!gak |---SHARX--| of officers to harass our people,
Cow Palace:            107/H/3-4 |----------| and eat out their substance.
From: cpc4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (CONNIN PATRICK COLGAIN)
Subject: Keenan signs with the Rangers!!
Organization: Lehigh University
Lines: 11
Just heard on the news that Mike Keenan formerly of the Blackhawks, Flyers,
and General of a Siberian Prison has just signed to coach the Rangers.  The
Rangers, who won the President's Cup last year have slipped just a bit at the
end of the season and are destined to finish last behind the lowly Flyers.
The Flyers' fans are going to be disappointed on Keenans decision, because
they were very interested in him.  Oh well.
Go CAPS!!!!!!!
Connin
--
From: farenebt@logic.camp.clarkson.edu (Droopy)
Subject: AHL final standings
Organization: Clarkson University
Lines: 35
Nntp-Posting-Host: logic.clarkson.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
FINAL 1992-93 AMERICAN HOCKEY LEAGUE STANDINGS
NORTHERN DIVISION	W	L	T	PTS	GF	GA	LYF*
Providence Bruins	46	32	2	94	384	348	56
Adirondack Red Wings	36	35	9	81	331	308	84
Capital District Isles	34	34	12	80	280	285	75
Springfield Indians	25	41	14	64	282	336	94
New Haven Senators	22	47	11	55	262	343	--
SOUTHERN DIVISION	W	L	T	PTS	GF	GA	LYF
Binghamton Rangers	57	13	10	124#	392	246	91
Rochester Americans	40	33	7	87	348	332	86
Utica Devils		33	36	11	77	325	354	74
Baltimore Skipjacks	28	40	12	68	318	353	66
Hershey Bears		27	41	12	66	316	339	83
Hamilton Canucks	29	45	6	64	284	327	--
ATLANTIC DIVISION	W	L	T	PTS	GF	GA	LYF
St John's Maple Leafs	41	26	13	95	351	308	90
Fredericton Canadiens	38	31	11	87	314	278	96
Cape Breton Oilers	36	32	12	84	356	336	82
Moncton Hawks		31	33	16	78	292	306	74
Halifax Citadels	33	37	10	76	312	348	67
*- Last year's point total
#- League record total
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Bri Farenell			farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu   +
+ AHL, ECAC and Boston Bruins contact for rec.sport.hockey		   +
+ Adirondack Red Wings, Calder Cup Champs: '81  '86  '89  '92	   +
+ Clarkson Hockey, ECAC Tournament Champs: '66  '91  '93		   +
+ Glens Falls High Hockey, NY Division II State Champs: '90  '91       +
+ AHL fans: join the AHL mailing list: ahl-news-request@andrew.cmu.edu +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: enolan@sharkbite.esd.sgi.com (Ed Nolan)
Subject: Devils and Islanders tiebreaker????
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 4
Nntp-Posting-Host: sharkbite.esd.sgi.com
If the Islanders beat the Devils tonight, they would finish with
identical records.  Who's the lucky team that gets to face the Penguins
in the opening round?   Also, can somebody list the rules for breaking
ties.
From: cbetz@radioman.cray.com (Charles Betz  {x66442 CF/ENG})
Subject: NHL team in Milwaukee
Lines: 24
Nntp-Posting-Host: radioman.cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
After reading some of the reports of possible NHL moves to Milwaukee or that
Milwaukee should have an NHL team, I thought I'd pass along a story I heard
recently.  This is second hand, so I don't know how true it is, but I have
no reason to doubt it either.
Bradley Center in Milwaukee is home to the Milwaukee Admirals minor leauge
hockey team.  The owner of the Admirals (sorry, I can't remember his name)
either owns or at least shelled out the majority of the funds to build the
Bradley Center.
Supposedly he was approached by the NHL about an expansion franchise, but
turned it down because he thought the franchise fee of $50 million was too
high.
Like I said, I don't know whether this story is true or just a rumor, but if
it's true, don't look for an NHL team in Milwaukee anytime soon.  The Admirals
aren't going to be forced out of the building and you won't see an NHL club
and a minor league club in the same building, especially since the NBA's
Milwaukee Bucks play there as well.
Charlie Betz
Cray Research, Inc.   Chippewa Falls, WI
cbetz@romulus.cray.com
From: joe13+@pitt.edu (Joseph B Stiehm)
Subject: Re: How to beat Pittsburgh!
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Lines: 20
In article <1993Apr15.214902.3372@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu> apanjabi@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
...
>>HOW TO BEAT PITTSBURGH???
...
>	III.Kevin Stevens
>		A.Fighting
>			1.Call Bob Probert
>			2.Call Tie Domi
>			3.Call my grandmother (She'd kick his ass)
>
Yeah...I've seen you're grand mother...I bet she could.
Joseph Stiehm
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: RUMOUR - Keenan signs with Rangers?
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Lines: 25
golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>
>The Ranger announcement is supposed to happen tomorrow supposedly.
Press conference at 1PM ...
>The Rangers have so many veterans that they had to get a coach with
>"weight" and a proven record...and whom they know Messier respects.
Interestingly, Keenan's co-coach (or is it his "Number One"?) on Team
Canada at the World Championships is Roger Neilsen.
It'd be interesting if the Rangers call in the balance of Neilsen's
contract to be Keenan's assistant ...  Roger did do a very good job
with the mediocre players, just as he handled the Cinderella Canucks
of 10 years ago ... but his mistake was playing the Rangers like those
Canucks last May ...
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: "Terence M. Rokop" <tr2i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Patrick Playoffs Look Like This
Organization: Freshman, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 20
<BSON.93Apr14154548@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: po5.andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <BSON.93Apr14154548@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu>
Jan Brittenson writes:
>last year. The Pens' weak spot is defense and goaltending -- if Boston
...
>   Boston doesn't have the guns of the Pens, but the Pens doesn't have
>the defense, goaltending, and discipline of Boston. Still, Boston can
Why do you say this?  As of now, the Pens and Bruins have played the
same number of games, and given up the same number of goals.  They are
tied for the third and fourth best defenses in the league, behind
Chicago first and Toronto second.  The Pens' weak spot is defense?  Only
by comparison to their offense, which is second in the league to
Detroit.  But the Pens are no weaker on defense and goaltending than the
Bruins are; that is, they are both very strong.
Terry
From: mep@phoenix.oulu.fi (Marko Poutiainen)
Subject: Re: Finland/Sweden vs.NHL teams (WAS:Helsinki/Stockholm & NHL expansion)
Organization: University of Oulu, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Lines: 40
: FINLAND:
:
: D-Jyrki Lumme.......20
: D-Teppo Numminen....20
: D-Peter Ahola.......13
:
Well well, they don't like our defenders (mainly Lumme and Numminen)...
: C-Jari Kurri........25
: C-Christian Ruuttu..16
:
Now, do YOU think that Ruuttu is only worth 16 ? I think it might be 20.
: R-Teemu Selanne.....27
:
Compared to Kurri, Selanne's points are too high, lets make it 25 or 26.
: well in the Canada Cup and World Championships largely due to the efforts of
: Markus Ketterer (the goalie), 3-4 or the players listed above and luck. There's
: presumably a lot of decent players in Finland that wouldn't be superstars at
: the highest level but still valuable role players, however. My guess would be
: that the Finnish Canada Cup team would be a .500 team in the NHL.
Wow, now, it looks like you don't like our players? What about guys like:
Nieminen, Jutila, Riihijarvi, Varvio, Laukkanen, Makela, Keskinen and (even
if he is aging) Ruotsalainen? The main difference between finnish and North-
American players is, that our players tend to be better in the larger rink.
The Canadian defenders are usually slower that defenders in Europe.
And I think that there was more in our success than Ketterer and luck (though
they helped). I think that the main reason was, that the team worked well
together.
--
***********************************************************************
* 'Howl howl gargle howl gargle howl howl howl gargle howl gargle howl*
*  howl gargle gargle howl gargle gargle gargle howl slurrp uuuurgh'  *
*                                       -Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz       *
***********************************************************************
-Marko Poutiainen
mep@phoenix.oulu.fi
From: cal2d@csissun11.ee.Virginia.EDU (Craig Allen Lorie)
Subject: Re: Devils and Islanders tiebreaker????
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 15
According to the hockey gurus over at ESPN, should the Islanders win tonite
the two teams will have the same record, but the Devils will be playing the
Penguins.  This is because the Islanders have won the season series against
the Devils.  I think the rules for deciding a tie breaker include:
1.  season series
2.  goals against
3.  goals for
in this order (correct me if I'm wrong).  Anyone have anything to add?
Craig
Go Islanders!
From: mjr4u@Virginia.EDU ("Matthew J. Rush")
Subject: Re: Octopus in Detroit?
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 16
d_jaracz@oz.plymouth.edu  writes:
> In article <93106.092246DLMQC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Harold Zazula <DLMQC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
> >I was watching the Detroit-Minnesota game last night and thought I saw an
> >octopus on the ice after Ysebaert scored to tie the game at two. What gives?
>
> No no no!!!  It's a squid!  Keep the tradition alive!  (Kinda like the
> fish at UNH games....)
>
Actually, the way I understand it, it is an octapus.
Apparently, a number of years ago, a fan threw an octapus on
the ice and the announcer said "Octapi will not occupy the ice"
or something like that, and it's happened ever since.  The fans
cheer those who pick up the dead octapus with their hands, and
boo those who use a shovel.
Matt at UVA
From: v128r82w@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Ralph L d'Ambrosio)
Subject: Re: Devils and Islanders tiebreaker????
Organization: University at Buffalo
Lines: 15
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu
In article <C5LDI2.77u@odin.corp.sgi.com>, enolan@sharkbite.esd.sgi.com (Ed Nolan) writes...
>If the Islanders beat the Devils tonight, they would finish with
>identical records.  Who's the lucky team that gets to face the Penguins
>in the opening round?   Also, can somebody list the rules for breaking
>ties.
I am not sure about the tie breaker rules. However, I think if the Islanders win
(Oh God, Please, Please let them win), the Islanders win the series against
NJ and advances to third.
********************************************************************************
Of course no one asked me, I always interject my opinions on maters I have no
concern over.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Go Islanders!!!!! (I mean come on, the Jets were bad enough
Go Jets for '93
From: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Nntp-Posting-Host: hudson.uvic.ca
Reply-To: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Lines: 47
In article 1qmtd1INNr1l@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca, gibson@nukta.geop.ubc.ca (Brad Gibson) writes:
<In response to a debate about who has has a better season- Jagr of Francis>
I think Jagr did he probably had a better point per minute ice time- stats
don't exist to properly analyze this and he had a substancially better +/-.
>  Actually, what I think has become more evident, is that you are determined to
>  flaunt your ignorance at all cost.  Jagr did not have a better season than
>  Francis ... to suggest otherwise is an insult to those with a modicum of
>  hockey knowledge.  Save your almost maniacal devotion to the almighty
>  plus/minus ... it is the most misleading hockey stat available.
>
>  Until the NHL publishes a more useful quantifiable statistic including ice
>  time per game and some measure of its "quality" (i.e., is the player put out
>  in key situations like protecting a lead late in the game; is he matched up
>  against the other team's top one or two lines; short-handed, etc), I would
>  much rather see the +/- disappear altogether instead of having its dubious
>  merits trumpeted by those with little understanding of its implications.
+/- is a useful statistic.  If a player is on the ice when his team scores a
lot of goals and only allows a few goals, he must be doing something right.
It is especially useful to compare between teammates- as they play for the
same team and should have roughly similar +/- ratings if they are equally
good players.  It can be adjusted- with varying degrees of success to compare
between players on different teams.
I agree it would be nice for the NHL to keep more statistics- but how useful
are the ones that you suggest??  Total ice time would be very useful- it is
a missing stat in Jagr vs Francis arguments from before.  Somehow measuring
the quality of ice time as you suggest would be useless.  It would be a
better stat for evaluating coaching- ie are the players given quality ice
time actually their talented ones?  A very good player could be given low
amounts of quality ice time because of team depth or a stupid coach who
doesn't recognize his talent and a very bad player could be given lots of
quality ice time because of a lack of team depth or a stupid coach that
thinks he is an effective player.  This stat would be much more flawed than
+/- and almost no conclusions could be drawn regarding player talent.
+/- is a useful stat.  It is quite useful in evaluating player talent.
You are the one displaying ignorance because of your unwillingness to see
that being on the ice when goals are scored but not when they are allowed
is a very positive thing- and should be evaluated as such.
Gregmeister
From: ee152fcs@sdcc15.ucsd.edu (Bjorn Karlsson)
Subject: Re: WC 93: Results, April 20
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Lines: 12
Nntp-Posting-Host: sdcc15.ucsd.edu
In article <1993Apr21.073134.5117@ericsson.se> etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson) writes:
>
> 1993 World Championships in Germany:
> ====================================
Is there any games being shown here in the US from the WC???
Thanks
mc
From: Anna Matyas <am2x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: ABC coverage
Organization: H&SS Dean's Office, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 25
Distribution: usa
<1993Apr20.173536.7678@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: po3.andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <1993Apr20.173536.7678@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
Gerald Olchowy writes:
>Clement, although he has a pleasant personality (aggravatingly pleasant
>in my opinion), is a terrible
>analyst, because he is almost alway wrong...the prototypical example
>being New Jersey's first goal last Sunday.
>
>I grew up with Dick Irvin doing color beside Danny Gallivan...I knew
>did Irvin, Dick Irvin was a friend of mine...Bill Clement you aren't
>any Dick Irvin.
>
>As long as the teams involved do not include the US national team or
>the New York Rangers, I'd take John Davidson over Bill Clement any
day.
Personality means something to me.  That is exactly why I like Clement
(and Emrick).  On the other hand, JD is a pompous, bull-headed, arrogant
know-it-all.  He's a real turn-off (which is exactly what I do when he's
on).  One complaint I do have about Clement is that he sometimes talks
too much.  If I wanted that I'd listen to Tim McGarver doing a baseball
game.
Mom.
From: "William K. Willis" <ww1a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: LET'S GO BUFFALO!
Organization: Administrative Computing & Info Services, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 3
NNTP-Posting-Host: po2.andrew.cmu.edu
You know, I never really appreciated them before!
From: Robert Angelo Pleshar <rp16+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Wirtz is a weenie
Organization: University Libraries - E&S Library, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 18
<9487@blue.cis.pitt.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: po2.andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <9487@blue.cis.pitt.edu>
from Dean:
>>In other TV news, the Penguins announced yesterday that they will have 3
>>fewer broadcast TV games, and will have 22(!) games on some sort of
>>subscription / pay-per-view system. Yuck.
>
>This is incorrect.  This year the Pens had 61 games on "free" TV and 6
>games on PPV.  Next year they will have 62 games on free TV and 22 on
>a subscription basis.
>
>You actually get 1 more free game than last year, and there will be no
>more "radio-only" games.
Yes, you're right. After going home and reading the paper, I got the
full details. That's what I get for making a post based on WDUQ's news.
I should know by now they get just about every sports related item wrong.
Ralph
From: "William K. Willis" <ww1a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Don Cherry - help me out, here
Organization: Administrative Computing & Info Services, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 12
NNTP-Posting-Host: andrew.cmu.edu
As a person who has rarely even SEEN Don Cherry and doesn't know
anything about him, I don't know whether it is just this area
(Pittsburgh) of the USA that is "deprived" of his broadcasts or whether
he's a Canadian thing altogether.  Seriously, what is he all about?  I
know he was a coach at one time, and from the volume of posts about him,
SOMEONE surely is getting a steady diet of him somehow, but my question
is, what is the deal with him?  Secondly, are the comments of his that I
read about on the net merely flame bait, or do people actually take him
seriously?  I gotta tell you, from what I see, he really sounds like an
ass.  Let me know - maybe I'm missing something.
Organization: University of Notre Dame - Office of Univ. Computing
From: <JOLD@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Subject: New Div. 1 NCAA teams
Lines: 9
It was great to hear that UMass is bringing back hockey!  It reminded me that a
couple of years ago there was talk that both Bimidgi (sp?) and Mankato State
trying to upgrade their programs to Div. 1 status.  I also seem to remember
that they had some trouble with new NCAA rule about just who was allowed to
compete at the Div. 1 level.  Was that ever resolved?  Also, I was just
wondering if there is ANY college hockey east of Colorado (Alaska excepted).
With the new popularity of hockey on the west coast, I would expect there to
be some interest building at the collegiate levels too. Anyone heard anything?
James Old, e-mail JOLD@vma.cc.nd.edu
From: popovich@cs.columbia.edu (Steve Popovich)
Subject: Re: Truly a sad day for hockey
In-Reply-To: Anna Matyas's message of Fri, 16 Apr 1993 13:34:29 -0400
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 19
"Mom" writes:
>I fear that within the next decade or so the only professional sports team
>left in Pittsburgh will be the Steelers.
Perish the thought...but you know, you may be right, at least as far
as MAJOR LEAGUE professional sports teams go.  They all seem to be
becoming BIG MONEY games, much more so than at any previous time.  To
think that if I am ever able to move back home several years from now,
all that may be there is an AHL team, at best...SIGH.
The interesting thing is that the NHL is also expanding, at the same
time as it is dramatically increasing the amount of money needed to
operate a team.  This would seem to indicate that there's a BIG
shake-out about to occur in the next few years, unless player salaries
can somehow be brought under control.  Frankly, I don't see how the
NHL's current drive for expansion is supportable under its current
operating conditions.  If revenue sharing AND a salary cap don't come
into the NHL soon, look out.
-Steve
From: rick@emma.tfbbs.wimsey.bc.ca (Rick Younie)
Subject: stats for hockey pool
Distribution: world
Bcc: emma!rick
Reply-To: rick@emma.tfbbs.wimsey.bc.ca
X-Newsreader: Arn V1.00
Lines: 13
I'm the keeper of the stats for a family hockey pool and I'm looking
for daily/weekly email servers for playoff stats.  I've connected with
the servers at J.Militzok@skidmore.EDU and wilson@cs.ucf.edu.  I'm
still sorting these two out.
Are there others?  Email please as my site doesn't get this group.
Thanks.
Rick
--
rick@emma.panam.wimsey.bc.ca
rick@emma.tfbbs.wimsey.bc.ca
From: steven.kipling@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Steven Kipling)
Subject: Re: NHL Team Captains
Reply-To: steven.kipling@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Steven Kipling)
Distribution: world
Organization: Freddy's Place BBS - Edmonton, AB - 403-456-4241
Lines: 54
-=> Quoting Cire Y. Trehguad to All <=-
CYT> : Michael Collingridge writes:
: >And, while we are on the subject, has a captain ever been traded,
: >resigned, or been striped of his title during the season? Any other
: >team captain trivia would be appreciated.
CYT> ;
CYT> : Wasn't Ron Francis captain of the Whalers when he was traded to
CYT> : Pittsburgh?
CYT> And Rick Tochett was the captain of the Flyers when traded to the Pens
CYT> recently...
CYT> Caleb
CYT> And let us not forget that the New Jersey Devils traded
CYT> captain Kirk Muller for Stephen Richer and Chorske
CYT> Man I hated that trade!
Well as for team captains being traded
in there first year in the NHL the
Edmonton Oilers traded their captain
Ron Chiperfield to the Quebec Nordique
right at the trading deadline for
Goaltender Ron Lowe
In their second year of existence
The Edmonton Oilers again right at the trade
deadline traded their captain, this time
B.J. McDonald to the Vancouver Canucks
along with the rights to winger Ken
Berry for Garry Lariviere and the rights
to Lars Gunner Petterson
as for more captain trivia, the next Edmonton
captain was Lee Fogilin who was later traded to
the Buffalo Sabres, after him was Wayne Gretzky
who was traded to L A, then came Kevin Low who
only this year was traded to the N Y Rangers
so that every captain the Edmonton Oilers have had
has been traded.
The present captain is Craig McTavish and we'll
just have to wait and see.
well talk to you later
Steve
... Answers: $1, Short: $5, Correct: $25, dumb looks are still free.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
From: gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak)
Subject: Re: Goodbye, good riddance, get lost 'Stars
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 13
In article <DT642B1w165w@sms.business.uwo.ca> s4lawren@sms.business.uwo.ca (Stephen Lawrence) writes:
>        Goodbye Minnesota,...you never earned the right to have an NHL
>franchise in the first place!
>Whatta weird town!!!!!
Whatta ass!!!!!
--
GO SKINS!    ||"Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite
GO BRAVES!   ||   an effect on you?" - Mike Patton, Faith No More
GO HORNETS!  ||
GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu
From: Young-Soo Che <yc25+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: NHLPA poll (partial stats/results)
Organization: Freshman, H&SS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 6
NNTP-Posting-Host: andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <1800@muller.loria.fr>
All these people who send in their polls should take a closer look at
NJD, they are a very deep team, with two very capable goalies, and
excellent forwards and defensemen.  Shooter in Richer, an all around do
it all in Todd, chef Stasny-master of a thousand dishes, power play
captain-Stevens.  Take a look at the numbers, or play with them and see
for yourselves.
From: lange@reg.triumf.ca (THREADING THE CANADIAN TAPESTRY)
Subject: Detroit Playoff Tradition
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Lines: 11
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: reg.triumf.ca
Keywords: Octopi
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Way back in the early years (~50's) it took 8 wins to garner the Stanley Cup.
Soooooo, a couple of local fish mongers (local to the Joe Louis Arena, that is)
started the tradition of throwing an octopi onto the ice with every win.  After
each victory, one leg would be severed before the octopus found its way to the
ice.  (They are dead by the way.)  It was a brilliant marketing strategy to
shore up the demand for one of their least popular products.
Hope this helps.
J. Lange
From: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA (Greg  Ballentine)
Subject: Roger Maynard
Nntp-Posting-Host: hudson.uvic.ca
Reply-To: gballent@hudson.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Lines: 15
Does anyone recieve annoying email from Roger Maynard whenever they post an
article telling them to leave him alon and stop posting to the group??
These emails are filled with insults- more than are usual in Roger's posts
and have little if any hockey info.
I have recieved two in the last 2 days.
I am just wondering if I am special or Roger trys to bully everyone who
disagrees with him.
Gregmeister
Obligatory hockey comment:
It is highly unlikely that the Maple Leafs will even get out of their
division.
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Devils and Islanders tiebreaker????
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 16
In article <C5LFA4.E10@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> cal2d@csissun11.ee.Virginia.EDU (Craig Allen Lorie) writes:
>According to the hockey gurus over at ESPN, should the Islanders win tonite
>the two teams will have the same record, but the Devils will be playing the
>Penguins.  This is because the Islanders have won the season series against
>the Devils.  I think the rules for deciding a tie breaker include:
>
>1.  season series
>2.  goals against
>3.  goals for
>
>in this order (correct me if I'm wrong).  Anyone have anything to add?
>
I thought it was 1) wins 2) goals for.
Gerald
From: tvartiai@vipunen.hut.fi (Tommi Vartiainen)
Subject: Re: Finland/Sweden vs.NHL teams (WAS:Helsinki/Stockholm & NHL expansion)
Nntp-Posting-Host: vipunen.hut.fi
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Lines: 51
In <1993Apr16.195754.5476@ousrvr.oulu.fi> mep@phoenix.oulu.fi (Marko Poutiainen) writes:
>: FINLAND:
>:
>: D-Jyrki Lumme.......20
>: D-Teppo Numminen....20
>: D-Peter Ahola.......13
>:
>Well well, they don't like our defenders (mainly Lumme and Numminen)...
About 25 is correct for Numminen and Lumme.
>: R-Teemu Selanne.....27
>:
>Compared to Kurri, Selanne's points are too high, lets make it 25 or 26.
No, Kurri's points are too low. 27 for Kurri and 28 for Sel{nne.
>: well in the Canada Cup and World Championships largely due to the efforts of
>: Markus Ketterer (the goalie), 3-4 or the players listed above and luck. There's
>: presumably a lot of decent players in Finland that wouldn't be superstars at
>: the highest level but still valuable role players, however. My guess would be
>: that the Finnish Canada Cup team would be a .500 team in the NHL.
>Wow, now, it looks like you don't like our players? What about guys like:
>Nieminen, Jutila, Riihijarvi, Varvio, Laukkanen, Makela, Keskinen and (even
>if he is aging) Ruotsalainen? The main difference between finnish and North-
>American players is, that our players tend to be better in the larger rink.
>The Canadian defenders are usually slower that defenders in Europe.
>And I think that there was more in our success than Ketterer and luck (though
>they helped). I think that the main reason was, that the team worked well
>together.
That's true. Game is so different here in Europe compared to NHL. North-ame-
ricans are better in small rinks and europeans in large rinks. An average
european player from Sweden, Finland, Russian or Tsech/Slovakia is a better
skater and  puckhandler than his NHL colleague. Especially defenders in NHL
are mainly slow and clumsy. Sel{nne has also said that in the Finnish Sm-league
game is more based on skill than in NHL. In Finland he couldn't get so many
breakaways because defenders here are an average much better skaters than in
NHL. Also Alpo Suhonen said that in NHL Sel{nne's speed accentuates because
of clumsy defensemen.
I have to admit that the best players come from Canada, but those regulars
aren't as skilful as regulars in the best european leagues. Also top europeans
are in the same level as the best north-americans.(except Lemieux is in the
class of his own).
Tommi
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: RUMOUR - Keenan signs with Rangers?
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 25
In article <1993Apr16.185823.6310@news.columbia.edu> gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>
>Interestingly, Keenan's co-coach (or is it his "Number One"?) on Team
>Canada at the World Championships is Roger Neilsen.
>
But ultimately their hockey philosophies are like night and day...
Keenan believes in pressuring the opposition and taking the
initiative (within the limits of his system)...while Roger
has a reactive hockey philosophy...which is why Messier will
be able to and has played for Keenan, but thought Roger's way
was a sure loser.
>It'd be interesting if the Rangers call in the balance of Neilsen's
>contract to be Keenan's assistant ...  Roger did do a very good job
>with the mediocre players, just as he handled the Cinderella Canucks
>of 10 years ago ... but his mistake was playing the Rangers like those
>Canucks last May ...
>
Roger is a great assistant coach...but considering what must be bad
blood between Nielson and Messier, it would be a mistake to bring
him back even in that role.
Gerald
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 8
It is meaningless to compare one player's plus/minus statistic with
another players' out of the context of the role and the playing time
of the players involved.
To compare Jagr's and Francis's plus/minus is ridiculous and absurd...
Gerald
From: nichols@spss.com (David Nichols)
Subject: Re: Detroit Playoff Tradition
Keywords: Octopi
Organization: SPSS Inc.
Lines: 24
In article <16APR199314443969@reg.triumf.ca> lange@reg.triumf.ca (THREADING THE CANADIAN TAPESTRY) writes:
>Way back in the early years (~50's) it took 8 wins to garner the Stanley Cup.
>Soooooo, a couple of local fish mongers (local to the Joe Louis Arena, that is)
>started the tradition of throwing an octopi onto the ice with every win.  After
>each victory, one leg would be severed before the octopus found its way to the
>ice.  (They are dead by the way.)  It was a brilliant marketing strategy to
>shore up the demand for one of their least popular products.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>J. Lange
>
Local to the Joe Louis Arena? You mean local to Olympia Stadium, where
Red Wings games were played until fairly recently (early 80s comes to
mind). As far as I know, the rest of the post is basically correct. If
what you meant by local was simply Detroit and I'm being incredibly
picky, okay, sorry about that.
--
David Nichols        Senior Statistical Support Specialist         SPSS, Inc.
Phone: (312) 329-3684     Internet:  nichols@spss.com     Fax: (312) 329-3657
*******************************************************************************
Any correlation between my views and those of SPSS is strictly due to chance.
From: atkinsj@reis59.alleg.edu (Joshua Atkins)
Subject: Re: Goalie Mask Update
Organization: Allegheny College
In article <C5L3EC.F2v@acsu.buffalo.edu> hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Valerie
S. Hammerl) writes:
> In article <93289@hydra.gatech.EDU> gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak)
writes:
> >
> >	Here are the results after three days of voting. Remember 3pts for
> >1st, 2 for 2nd, and 1 for 3rd. Also, you can still turn in votes! And..
if
> >the guy isn't a regular goalie or he is retired, please include the
team!
> >Thanks for your time, and keep on sending in those votes!
>
> > Glenn Healy (NYI), Tommy Soderstron (???), Ray LeBlanc (USA).
>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Soderstrom plays with Philly, but he doesn't have a moulded mask.
> He's got the helmet and cage variety, in white.  Or at least that's
> what he wore thirteen hours ago.
>
Yeah but Soderstrom's mask has always appeared to be a lot bigger than the
average helmet-and-cage variety.  It has a certain appeal on its own
josh
> --
> Valerie Hammerl			"Some days I have to remind him
he's not
> hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu	Mario Lemieux."  Herb Brooks on Claude
> acscvjh@ubms.cc.buffalo.edu	Lemieux, top scorer for the Devils, but
> v085pwwpz@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu  known for taking dumb penalties.
From: lee139@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Steve Lee)
Subject: STOP MAYNARD BASHING!!!! (was Re: Roger Maynard)
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Distribution: world
Summary: stop this nonsense!
Keywords: not fair, inconsiderate post
Nntp-Posting-Host: asterix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca
Lines: 24
In article <1993Apr16.213024.8698@sol.UVic.CA> gballent@hudson.UVic.CA writes:
>Does anyone recieve annoying email from Roger Maynard whenever they post an
>article telling them to leave him alon and stop posting to the group??
>These emails are filled with insults- more than are usual in Roger's posts
>and have little if any hockey info.
>I have recieved two in the last 2 days.
>I am just wondering if I am special or Roger trys to bully everyone who
>disagrees with him.
>
>Gregmeister
>
You can't be serious!  I and many of my colleagues have not received any
bad e-mails from Roger, in fact, Roger happens to have answered most if not
all of my hockey questions and curiosities, so before you start flaming
at me or Roger, better re-consider your nasty attitude towards Roger and the
like!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Lee      *      University of Western Ontario      *      London, Canada
lee139@obelix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: rhirji@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Rahim Hirji)
Subject: Re: Flames Question
Keywords: Roberts Flames
Organization: University of Waterloo
Lines: 22
In article <C5HtrB.ICE@ccu.umanitoba.ca> clhawth@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Timothy Chesley) writes:
>I heard a little while back that Gary Roberts would be returning to play
>in Calgary's last regular season game.  Can anybody confirm this??
>He'll be a big help to the Flames in the playoffs and may change my
>playoff pool strategy.
Roberts played in last night game against the Sharks and got a goal (38th)
and an assist.
This definitely bolsters Calgary's chances in the playoffs.
Rahim Hirji
--
|  Rahim Hirji
Life is what happens while you are  |  Actuarial Science
making other plans		     |  rhirji@descartes.uwaterloo.ca
|  University of Waterloo
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: TV Schedule for Next Week
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Distribution: na
Lines: 33
jpc@philabs.philips.com (John P. Curcio) writes:
>mmb@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Michael Burger) writes:
>
>|> United States TV Schedule:
>|> April 18   Devils/Islanders at Pittsburgh   1 EST  ABC
>|> April 18   St. Louis at Chicago             12 CDT ABC
>|> April 18   Los Angeles at Calgary           12 PDT ABC
Okay, here's the down side of the ESPN deal: no additional coverage.
With a split contract, SCA could have at least gotten at leftovers
like Canucks-Jets, Caps-whoever and Red Wings-Leafs (or whoever else
is playing).
>|> April 20   Devils/Islanders at Pittsburgh   7:30   ESPN
>|> April 22   TBA                              7:30   ESPN
>|> April 24   TBA                              7:30   ESPN
>
>Does anyone know if there will be alternate games in cities where
>local broadcast rights are being protected?
For our area (Islanders-Devils), it's likely to be the Bruins, since
the other Adams series is Montreal-Quebec.  I'd prefer the latter
myself ...
I'm under the impression that the ABC deal overrides the local deals,
but if St. Louis at Chicago pops up we'll know ...
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: huot@cray.com (Tom Huot)
Subject: Re: Bruins-Pens: the Ulf-Neeley fight
Lines: 9
Nntp-Posting-Host: pittpa.cray.com
Organization: Cray Research Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Oh, excuse me for wasting the bandwidth, but I was referring to
the original incident, not the recent skirmish which occurred
this past month.
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Tom Huot
huot@cray.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: scialdone@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (John Scialdone)
Subject: CUT Vukota and Pilon!!!
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
Lines: 32
I have been to all 3 Isles/Caps tilts at the Crap Centre this year, all Isles
wins and there is no justification for Vukota and Pilon to play for the Isles.
Vukota is absolutely the worst puck handler in the world!! He couldn't hit a
bull in the ass with a banjo!! Al must remember a few years back when Mick
scored 3 goals in one period against the Caps in a 5-3 Isles win. I was there
and was astonished as was the rest of the crowd. Wake-up Al!!! Years later he's
gotten worse. He's a cheap shot artist and always ends up getting
stupid/senseless penalties. I think he would make a good police officier!!!
As for Pilon, he can't carry the puck out to center ice by himself. He either
makes a bad pass resulting in a turnover, or he attempts to bring the puck
towards the neutral zone and skates right into an opposing skater. He can't
stay on his skates with most forwards or centers. He either falls down or
committs a penalty. Call up somebody from Capital District AL!!!!!
As far as the playoffs, the Isles are as difficult to figure out as the Caps.
Two good teams with talent but so inconsistent. They should meet in the first
round. The Isles seem to play up to the level of their competition so they
should play well against Jersey tonite. It'll probably be another tight 1-goal
game as the last 20 games hve been for the Isles. I wish when the get a lead
they could continue to pour it on instead of settling back into a defensive
shell and letting the opposition get back in the game. Al MUST understand he
can't do with this team what he did with the 80-83 Isles. maybe Al should got
to. Where is Bobby Nystrom?? Clark Gilles?? John Tonelli?? These are the kind
of young minds we need behing the bench!!    FIRE AL!!!!
John Scialdone
SCIALDONE@NSSDCA.GSFC.NASA.GOV
**********When your ship comes in, first man takes the Sail********************
From: rbeskost@adam.East.Sun.COM (Richard Beskosty - Sun BOS Systems Product Assurance)
Subject: Re: Goalie mask poll
Reply-To: rbeskost@adam.East.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc. - BDC
Lines: 23
NNTP-Posting-Host: adam.east.sun.com
In article 93158@hydra.gatech.EDU, gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak) writes:
>
> 	Here is an update on the Goalie mask poll...
> 	First, since so many people gave me their 3 best, I decided to
> give 3 pts for their favorite, 2 pts for 2nd, 1 for 3rd. If you e-mailed
> a response with only one, I gave it 3 pts. Please feel free to send me
> your 2 other favorites, if you only sent one before.
> 	Also, votes are still welcome! Any mask you like will do, as I
> have received votes for players not in the NHL. Please mention what team
> they play for, though.
> 	So here are the up-to-date results so far:
>
>
My vote goes to Andy Moog 1st, Belfour 2nd, Vanbiesbrouck 3rd
The Bruin's are hot at just the right time !!!!!
rich beskosty
rbeskost@east.sun.com
From: richard@amc.com (Richard Wernick)
Subject: Re: Ulf and all...
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA
Lines: 20
You should be ashamed to call yourself an Ulf Samuelson fan. Anybody who plays
the way he does, does not belong in the NHL. There have been cheap shot artists
through the history of the game, but a lot of them have been talanted players.
Bobby Clarke, Kenny Linsemen, Pie McKenzie, Chris Chelios etc.. but nobody has been
out right as dirty a cheapshot coward as Ulf. Violence in hockey has got to be curbed
and players like (Should have been a Women) Samuelson don't belong. When players
like Ulf, who's main purpose is to injure the better players in the league is allowed
to continue, and the league won't stop it, the players should. A Christian Pro 1000
aluminum stick directed at his ugly head should do the trick nicely. If the Bruins get
a chance to meet Pittsburgh in the near future, you can bet Neely will have his day.
The sight of watching Ulf turtle up like the coward he is, is worth almost as much as a
Stanely Cup. This wimp of a player almost ruined the career of one the best right wingers
in the game. If you are to remove Ulf Samuelson from the lineup, the Penguins would not
even notice he's gone. He's an eyesore on the game of hockey.
Rich
From: williac@govonca.gov.on.ca (Chris Williams)
Subject: Re: STOP MAYNARD BASHING!!!! (was Re: Roger Maynard)
Keywords: not fair, inconsiderate post
Organization: Government of Ontario
Distribution: world
Lines: 35
In <1993Apr16.225806.10680@julian.uwo.ca> lee139@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Steve Lee) writes:
>In article <1993Apr16.213024.8698@sol.UVic.CA> gballent@hudson.UVic.CA writes:
>>Does anyone recieve annoying email from Roger Maynard whenever they post an
>>article telling them to leave him alon and stop posting to the group??
>>These emails are filled with insults- more than are usual in Roger's posts
>>and have little if any hockey info.
>>I have recieved two in the last 2 days.
>>I am just wondering if I am special or Roger trys to bully everyone who
>>disagrees with him.
>>
>>Gregmeister
>>
>You can't be serious!  I and many of my colleagues have not received any
>bad e-mails from Roger, in fact, Roger happens to have answered most if not
>all of my hockey questions and curiosities, so before you start flaming
>at me or Roger, better re-consider your nasty attitude towards Roger and the
>like!
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Steve Lee      *      University of Western Ontario      *      London, Canada
>                      lee139@obelix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca
>_______________________________________________________________________________
Speaking of Roger, where is his comments from last nights game. You have
to admit he can make a nothing game sound like it was game 7 of the
Stanley Cup finals.
Roger pushes the Leafs so much it even bothers me, a long time supporter
but he does have a good overall idea of the game.
Wow I just gave R.M a compliment, guess I better stop it with the Rye +
Water before I give him another..
From: daniell@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel Lyddy)
Subject: Re: Bruins vs Canadiens:
Nntp-Posting-Host: cory.berkeley.edu
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Lines: 73
In article <1993Apr16.213513.7683@rose.com> jack.petrilli@rose.com (jack petrilli) writes:
>So I don't know what you mean by parity; Boston never was, is not now,
>and never will be as good an organization as the Montreal Canadiens.
>
Never was?  Probably.  Is not now?  Debatable.  What other valid test can
you think of besides the final standings or divisional playoff winner?  What
do you propose, a worthless vote like they do in college football?  What a
joke!
>You Boston fans make me laugh: you're going crazy based on a very
>recent Boston domination over Montreal in the playoffs. I mean how
>many cups has Boston won compared to Montreal's 23? And who do you
>think is going to win the **next** cup between the 2 teams? Montreal
>or Boston? You know Sinden's going to find some way of screwing up
>even this good Boston team. He'll fire Suter or trade away a vital
>star. (Admittedly, his last few trades have been good ones but how
>long before his luck runs out and he starts making Esposito-for-
>Ratelle type trades again?)
>
If I remember right, Brad Park was also involved in that trade.  He wasn't
all that bad a hockey player.
But let's look at some of Sinden's trades over the years:
??? for Rick Middleton (Rangers).  I don't know who Sinden gave up for Middle-
ton, so I'll call this one a +.
Barry Pederson for Cam Neely (Canucks).  +++.  Any questions?
Greg Hawgood for Vladimir Ruzicka (Oilers). ++.  Didja see that one Rosie
roofed against Roy in last year's playoffs?
Courtnall/Ranford for Andy Moog (Oilers).  A wash.  Moog is a good goaltender,
Ranford burned Boston in the Finals in his first year, and Courtnall always
seems to get his points.  Anyone in Vancouver care to comment on Courtnall
as a defensive liability?
Ken Linseman for Dave Poulin (Flyers) ++.  Any more questions?
Janney/Quintal for Adam Oates (Blues).  ++.  Janney is an enormous talent and
a personable guy, the the Bruins play in Adam's Division.  Enough said?
So,even if you count the Esposito/Vadnais/Ratelle/Park/I don't remember who
else (Joe Zanussi?) trade as a double minus, Harry the Horse trader comes
out on top.  I submit that the Bruins are always good because of Harry, not
in spite of him.
BTW, do you really think the Habs will bounce back next season.  I'll bet
they finish fourth or fifth in the Conference, behind any of the following:
Pittsburgh, Quebec, Boston, Washington, Islanders.  Someone correct me if
these five teams will not be in Montreal's conference.
In summary, things look bleak for the Habs, at least in the near future.  I
suspect that the next team from La Belle Province to win the Cup will be
that team that Lindros didn't want to play for.
>I admit that I've been suffering lately with the Boston gets hot while
>Montreal swans in the playoffs type years. But I **do** have the sure
>knowledge that the Montreal braintrust will keep plugging away until
>they hit the right formula for yet another cup. Whereas if I were a
>Boston fan, I'd have this kind of despair that as long as Harry Sinden
>is running the show, the Bruins will always be good but **never**
>good enough.
>
>- Jack
--
Dan Lyddy    daniell@cory.berkeley.edu    University of California at Berkeley
My Two Favorite Hockey Teams:  1) The Boston Bruins
2) Whoever's playing Pittsburgh
From: huot@cray.com (Tom Huot)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Lines: 28
Nntp-Posting-Host: pittpa.cray.com
Organization: Cray Research Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Brad Gibson (gibson@nukta.geop.ubc.ca) wrote:
[Much text deleted]
:   plus/minus ... it is the most misleading hockey stat available.
Not necessarily the most misleading, but you are right, it definitely
needs to be taken in the proper perspective. A shining example is
if you look at the Penguins individual +/-, you will find very few minuses.
That only makes common sense, since they didn't lose many games.
:   Until the NHL publishes a more useful quantifiable statistic including ice
:   time per game and some measure of its "quality" (i.e., is the player put out
:   in key situations like protecting a lead late in the game; is he matched up
:   against the other team's top one or two lines; short-handed, etc), I would
:   much rather see the +/- disappear altogether instead of having its dubious
:   merits trumpeted by those with little understanding of its implications.
Unfortunately, you will need to keep a ridiculous number of stats to
really come up with a statistic which really shows a player's value.
Let's just enjoy the game and not overanalyze it. (like I'm doing now,
excuse me!)
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Tom Huot
huot@cray.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: huot@cray.com (Tom Huot)
Subject: Re: plus minus stat
Lines: 16
Nntp-Posting-Host: pittpa.cray.com
Organization: Cray Research Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Gerald Olchowy (golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca) wrote:
: It is meaningless to compare one player's plus/minus statistic with
: another players' out of the context of the role and the playing time
: of the players involved.
: To compare Jagr's and Francis's plus/minus is ridiculous and absurd...
: Gerald
Thank you for putting this in perspective!
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Tom Huot
huot@cray.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: boora@kits.sfu.ca (The GodFather)
Subject: RANGERS ARE AN EMBARRASSMENT
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 14
I can't believe that the NY Rangers would force its
players to go to Binghamtom to play in the AHL playoffs instead
of letting them represent their countries in the World Championships.
Anderrson and Zubov are waiting for the NHL to make a decision to this,
while Kovalev has given in and gone down to the minors.
The Rangers are a disgrace.
ps. it has been reported that Neil Smith was very much against
the hiring of Mike Keenan. How long will Smith be in NY for?
the GodFather.
`
From: seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr)
Subject: FLYERS notes 4/16
Organization: AT&T
Keywords: FLYERS/Sabres summary, misc stuff
Lines: 283
The FLYERS blew a 3-0 lead over the Buffalo Sabres in the second period, but
Kevin Dineen's 7th career hat trick powered them to their 7th consecutive win,
7-4 over the Sabres who have now lost 7 in a row. Alexander Mogilny led the
comeback scoring his 75th and 76th goals of the season which tied the game at
3 in the 2nd period and 4 in the 3rd. Tommy Soderstrom stopped 41 of 45 shots
on goal to improve his own record to 20-17-6 as he was tested by Mogilny and
LaFontaine all night.
Roster move:
Andre Faust was once again recalled from Hershey, Shawn Cronin was a healthy
scratch.
Lines:
Eklund-Lindros-Recchi
Beranek-Brind'Amour-Dineen
Lomakin-Butsayev-Conroy
Faust-Acton-Brown
Galley-Bowen
Yushkevich-Hawgood
Carkner-McGill
Tommy Soderstrom
Game Summary:
Say, if anybody from Buffalo is reading this, where did you people get that
woman who sang the anthems? We had to turn down the volume!
The FLYERS defense started out the game showing everybody why the FLYERS have
been shutting teams out lately by holding the Sabres to only 8 shots in the
first period. They then showed everybody why they will be playing golf Sunday
when they gave up 37 shots in the last two periods. Maybe Tommy told them that
he was getting bored back there...
Mark Recchi opened the scoring so fast that if you blinked you missed it. After
Buffalo won the faceoff and dumped, Tommy wrapped the puck around the boards
to Eric 1/2 way up on his left. Eric dropped it to Galley, and he sent it ahead
to Recchi steaming out of the zone. Mark skated into the center circle, passed
the puck to himself through the legs of Richard Smehlik, skated around him and
in on Fuhr. Smehlik was pulling at him all the way through the zone with his
stick, Recchi drifted right, drifted back left, and slid the puck back to the
right past Fuhr for a 1-0 FLYERS lead at 0:18. It was so beautiful Eric and
Garry should turn down their assists :-).
The FLYERS kept the pressure on Fuhr for a while after that, but he was strong
and kept the FLYERS from doing further damage. The game then became a defensive
struggle for a while. The Sabres got the first chance on the power play when
Terry Carkner took a boarding minor at 10:26 for crunching Dale Hawerchuk into
the boards in the FLYERS zone. LaFontaine got the only scoring chance, and not
a terribly good one, as the FLYERS smothered the Sabres power play. Mogilny got
a post after it was over. The 25th consecutive penalty kill for the FLYERS.
Keith Carney took a holding penalty at 13:31 for taking down Mark Recchi to
give the FLYERS a power play. The best penalty killing team in the league
didn't allow the FLYERS a shot on goal, although the FLYERS did create a
good scoring chance for Lindros who partially fanned on his shot. Towards
the end of the period the play started going end to end, but everybody kept
missing the net. Greg Hawgood took an interference penalty at 18:19 to give
the Sabres another power play, but they couldn't get anything going and the
fans expressed their displeasure, particularly when they iced the puck. Shots
were 8-6 Buffalo after the FLYERS had led 6-2 at one point.
Mike Emrick interviewed FLYERS president Jay Snider between periods. Jay was
disappointed to not make the playoffs, but not discouraged. This was considered
a rebuilding year after *The Trade* and he seemed very happy with the way the
season went. When asked if he agonized over *The Trade* he said that it was
Russ Farwell's trade and not his, that it only was an issue for him and Ed
Snider as far as the money. But yes, there was some agonizing, and they'd do
it all over again. When asked how the coaching situation would be handled for
next year he said that it's Russ' call, and Russ will evaluate things at the
end of the season. He feels that they're 3 years away from a shot at the Cup.
He expects to get into the playoffs next year, have a shot at a division title
the following year, and a shot at the finals the year after that. This based
on the current level of play and anticipated improvements over the summer.
He's very happy with the re-alignment (he called it "outstanding"). Happy with
the current expansion, feels that the talent pool is big enough with the unflux
of Europeans, but feels that they must make sure existing franchises are stable.
Seemed to like the idea of playing in the Olympics (booo) but said that there
was a definite split among owners and that this certainly would only happen in
four years if there was a consensus.
The Sabres gave the FLYERS their second power play of the game when Brad May
took a tripping penalty at 0:51 of the second. The FLYERS had a little trouble
getting started, but eventually did. Hawgood took a pass as he was moving
throug the neutral zone and handed the puck to Eklund just outside the Sabres
blue line along the right boards. Eklund carried into the zone nad passed
across to Dineen who tried a one timer from between the blue line and the
top of the left circle. He half fanned on it, and sent the puck trickling
through the slot. Fuhr didn't know where it was, though, and Hawgood won the
race to it and flipped it into essentially an open net at 2:15.
Then Mogilny on a breakaway. He slipped through two FLYERS at the blue line
and went in on Soderstrom. He went with the backhander, but Soderstrom was
all over it.
The FLYERS then took some bad discipline type penalties that really hurt them.
Viacheslav Butsayev took a double minor for roughing and high sticking when
Barnaby got under his skin and drew one minor, then according to Gary Dornhoefer
took a dive to get the other (there was no video) at 4:22. The Sabres coudln't
get started. Ryan McGill poked at the puck just after a Sabre carried into the
FLYERS zone, and after a bunch of people poked at it Dineen emerged with it and
headed the other way. It started out a 1 on 1, but Brind'Amour hustled ahead to
make it a 2 on 1 and back off the defenseman. Dineen let it rip from the top
of the right circle to make it 3-0 FLYERS at 5:40. That was all for Fuhr, John
Muckler sent in Dominik Hasek to take over.
But the Sabres still had lots of power play time. Again they took some time to
just get into the FLYERS zone, and when they finally did the FLYERS were all
over them. Boos began to ring through the building. But they finally got through
Soderstrom on an ugly goal. Smehlik took a shot from the top of the zone that
missed and kicked out to Hawerchuk in the slot. Hawerchuk tried a backhander as
he skated towards the goal line to the right as Galley dove down to block it.
Mistake #1, he should have let Soderstrom handle the backhander and worried
about A) the rebound or B) Barnaby who was camped behind the goal line right
next to the net. Well, the rebound dropped right next to Soderstrom, and
mistake #2, Galley just laid there and watched Barnaby get THREE hacks at the
puck before he finally pushed it through the goalie. He didn't even swing his
stick out to try and knock the puck away. With the goal, at 7:48, two streaks
end for the FLYERS. 150:28 of shutout hockey, and 27 straight penalty kills.
Lindros put them right back on the power play at 8:36 with a high sticking
minor, I think it was Barnaby again. This time the Sabres were able to get
set up quickly, but couldn't get too much quality on goal. The Sabres continued
to keep the puck in the FLYERS end for a while after the power play ended.
Things evetually settled down, but then the other very bad penalty. McGill
allowed Barnaby to get under his skin and slashed his stick just before a
faceoff. The gloves were dropped, and McGill started pounding the crap out of
him. But during the fight, he gave Barnaby a head butt with his helmet, and
that meant a match penalty. 2 for slashing, 5 fighting and 5 for the major,
7 minutes of power play time for the Sabres at 14:15, Barnaby only got 5.
The FLYERS were keeping them at bay for a while, but there was only so long
they could do that. After a couple of good Sabre chances, Audette handed to
Ledyard at the point, and Ledyard sent a drive that was knocked down by
Soderstrom. LaFontaine whacked at the bouncing puck from the left side of
the net, and knocked it over to Randy Wood at the right. Soderstrom had
moved over to play LaFontaine, and since Yushkevich and Carkner were waving
at the puck instead of picking up men, Wood just slid it into the empty net
at 17:34 to close the FLYERS lead to 3-2. LaFontaine was actually trying to
put it on net, but half fanned on it and got a break.
The FLYERS then got some shorthanded pressure in the Sabres zone, but Hasek
was strong. Finally it was Keith Carney passing ahead to Hawerchuk into the
neutral zone, and Hawerchuk sent a good backhand pass to Mogilny at the FLYERS
blue line. Another mini-breakaway for Mogilny, he elected to shoot from the
left circle, and he threaded the needle to get it just inside the far post at
18:56 for his 75th of the season. Ironically, the youth hockey tip between
the 1st and second period was Tommy Soderstrom talking about cutting off
angles...
That was all in the 2nd, shots were 19-7 Sabres.
Into the 3rd period, and Pelle EKlund blew a golden opportunity to get the
FLYERS the lead back. A 2 on 1, Acton with the puck, he dropped to Eklund in
the slot, and Eklund held the puck as he slid through the left circle until
he had almost no angle at all to shoot from. When he finally did shoot, he
hit the far post. That was still during the carryover power play time.
Than an incredible almost goal. Randy Wood skated around Recchi and Hawgood
untouched into Soderstrom. Soderstrom goes down, Wood pokes the puck under
Soderstrom, and a black object hits the back of the net. Red light comes on,
horn sounds, crowd cheers. But up to the video replay booth, for some strange
reason, and in the meantime Emrick and Dornhoefer try to figure out what they
could be reviewing. Well, it turns out that it was the taped up stick blade
that went into the net, not the puck. Emrick mentions that one of the criteria
for scoring a goal is that the puck must go into the net...
Dave Hannan then took out Recchi and got a holding minor at 2:35. The FLYERS
could not get anything going at all. They finally got set up 1/2 way through,
but were kept on the perimeter. As time ran out, Beranek stripped the puck
from a Sabre in the offensive zone along the right boards and passed it across
to Eklund at the top of the left circle. Eklund saw Dineen heading at the net
just inside the right circle and passed through to him. Dineen fumbled the pass,
but twice directed it at Hasek, and Eklund swooped in and chipped the bouncing
puck over the goalie for his 11th at 4:42. 4-3 FLYERS.
But the Sabres came right back. LaFontaine picked up the puck in his offensive
left corner and slid it to Bob Erry behind the FLYERS net. Erry started to skate
out, but then just dropped the puck back to nobody behind the net. Mogilny flew
in, skated around, and stuffed it through Soderstrom's 5 hole for his 76th at
5:24 to tie the game at 4.
Then Hawerchuk took a retaliatory roughing penalty at 5:55. The FLYERS set up
in the Sabres zone, and stayed there. Off a faceoff high in the Sabres zone in
the middle. While Brind'Amour wrestled for the puck, Dineen snuck through the
line and wristed a perfect shot low to Hasek's glove side at 6:44.
Play started to go back and forth until Hawgood took a roughing penalty at 8:19.
The FLYERS dumped the puck into the Sabres zone. Brind'Amour and Ledyard went
after it, and Rod got the puck. He backed away from the right boards, skated
to the right faceoff dot, and passed between his legs to Dineen crashing
through the slot all by himself. Dineen waited patiently and lifted it over
the blocker of Hasek for a 6-4 FLYERS lead at 8:39. 3rd hat trick of the season
for Dineen, 7th of his career, 2nd shorthanded goal of the game for him 35th
of the season.
Then Carney took a tripping penalty at 9:02 to kill the rest of the Sabres
power play. Not much action on the 4 on 4, and the Sabres got most of the
chances on the FLYERS resulting power play.
Play went end to end for quite a while after that and both goalies had to
make some big saves. The Sabres weren't able to pull Hasek as time was running
out as the FLYERS wouldn't allow any consistant possession for the Sabres.
Finally as time was running out Ken Sutton misplayed the puck in his own left
corner and Brind'Amour stripped it away from him. He pulled away and found
Dineen on the other side of the left circle, and Dineen found Acton at the
right of Hasek. He slid the puck between two Sabres defenders, and Acton
chipped it back to the far side of Hasek for his 8th of the season at 19:48
on his 35th birthday. That was all the scoring, shots were 18-13 Buffalo,
and the ice was showered with plastic drinking mugs handed out before the
game.
So another strong game from Tommy Soderstrom who hadn't been tested much
in his last couple of starts. Kevin Dineen has a career high 6 point night
(unless he had a better night earlier in the season, but I don't think so).
The FLYERS longest winning streak in 3 years, 30 goals for only 11 against
with three shutouts. Eric Lindros is 8th in league with 33 even strength goals
despite missing 23 games with injury. 4 points out of 4th, clinched 5th place
since the Rangers lose the tie breaker.
A couple misc notes:
Forget the Mike Keenan rumors, there will be a press conference tommorrow to
announce that he will be head coach of the New York Rangers next year.
In the last notes I mentioned that Garry Galley won the Barry Ashbee Award,
but I failed to mention that the award is for the best defenseman.
The Times of Trenton has reported that "a preeminent specialist from Oklahoma"
has looked over Tommy Soderstrom's medical record and determined that no
further tests are necessary in the near future.
Same paper had a blurb about Bill Dineen being asked about whether or not he
expected to be back next year. His response was that he wants to come back,
he feels he did a good job this year, but that he would cheerfully accept a
role scouting if Farwell didn't want him back.
FLYERS team record watch:
Eric Lindros:
41 goals, 33 assists, 74 points
(rookie records)
club record goals:			club record points:
Eric Lindros	40 1992-93		Dave Poulin	76 1983-84
Brian Propp	34 1979-80		Brian Propp	75 1979-80
Ron Flockhart	33 1981-82		Eric Lindros	74 1992-93
Dave Poulin	31 1983-84		Ron Flockhart	72 1981-82
Bill Barber	30 1972-73		Pelle Eklund	66 1985-86
Mark Recchi:
52 goals, 69 assists, 121 points.
club record goals:			club record points:
Reggie Leach	61 1975-76		Mark Recchi	121 1992-93*
Tim Kerr	58 1985-86,86-87	Bobby Clarke	119 1975-76
Tim Kerr	54 1983-84,84-85	Bobby Clarke	116 1974-75
Mark Recchi	52 1992-93		Bill Barber	112 1975-76
Rick Macliesh	50 1972-73		Bobby Clarke	104 1972-73
Bill Barber	50 1975-76		Rick Macliesh	100 1972-73
Reggie Leach	50 1979-80
*More than 80 games.
FLYERS career years:
Player		Points	Best Prior Season
Mark Recchi	121	113 (90-91 Penguins)
Rod Brind'Amour	84	77 (91-92 FLYERS)
Garry Galley	62	38 (84-85 Kings)
Brent Fedyk	59	35 (90-91 Red Wings)
That's all for now...
pete clark jr - rsh FLYERS contact and mailing list owner
From: huot@cray.com (Tom Huot)
Subject: Re: Ulf and all...
Lines: 29
Nntp-Posting-Host: pittpa.cray.com
Organization: Cray Research Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Richard Wernick (richard@amc.com) wrote:
: You should be ashamed to call yourself an Ulf Samuelson fan. Anybody who plays
: the way he does, does not belong in the NHL. There have been cheap shot artists
: through the history of the game, but a lot of them have been talanted players.
: Bobby Clarke, Kenny Linsemen, Pie McKenzie, Chris Chelios etc.. but nobody has been
: out right as dirty a cheapshot coward as Ulf. Violence in hockey has got to be curbed
: and players like (Should have been a Women) Samuelson don't belong. When players
: like Ulf, who's main purpose is to injure the better players in the league is allowed
: to continue, and the league won't stop it, the players should. A Christian Pro 1000
: aluminum stick directed at his ugly head should do the trick nicely. If the Bruins get
: a chance to meet Pittsburgh in the near future, you can bet Neely will have his day.
: The sight of watching Ulf turtle up like the coward he is, is worth almost as much as a
: Stanely Cup. This wimp of a player almost ruined the career of one the best right wingers
: in the game. If you are to remove Ulf Samuelson from the lineup, the Penguins would not
: even notice he's gone. He's an eyesore on the game of hockey.
: Rich
Thank you for your extremely lucid and well thought out observation.
Now when you get back on your medication, please let us know how you
are feeling.
Thank you,
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Tom Huot
huot@cray.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: huot@cray.com (Tom Huot)
Subject: Re: Goodbye, good riddance, get lost 'Stars
Lines: 20
Nntp-Posting-Host: pittpa.cray.com
Organization: Cray Research Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Stephen Lawrence (s4lawren@sms.business.uwo.ca) wrote:
:         Goodbye Minnesota,...you never earned the right to have an NHL
: franchise in the first place!
:         Hope you enjoy your Twin city wide mania for HIGH SCHOOL HOCKEY
: (hey, by the way my old pee wee team is having a reunion in Regina, care
: to come up and film the event?)
:         Yee haa Golden Gophers
: Whatta weird town!!!!!
: s4lawren@sms.business.uwo.ca (Stephen Lawrence)
: Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
This is the second posting of this kind from an idiot at a business
school in Canada. What is your problem up there anyway? Is this what
they teach you in business school in Canada?
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Tom Huot
huot@cray.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: jfp001@acad.drake.edu
Subject: Re: Goalie Mask Update
Lines: 41
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad.drake.edu
Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA
In article <93289@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak) writes:
>
> 	Here are the results after three days of voting. Remember 3pts for
> 1st, 2 for 2nd, and 1 for 3rd. Also, you can still turn in votes! And.. if
> the guy isn't a regular goalie or he is retired, please include the team!
> Thanks for your time, and keep on sending in those votes!
>
> Player                  Team                  Pts     Votes
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> 1. Brian Hayward        San Jose              15        6
>    Andy Moog            Boston                15        6
> 3. Curtis Joseph        St. Louis             11        5
> 4. Ed Belfour           Chicago               10        5
> 5. Gerry Cheevers       Boston (retired)       5        3
>    Manon Rheaume        Atlanta (IHL)          5        2
>    Ron Hextall          Quebec                 5        2
> 8. Don Beaupre          Washington             4        2
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Others receiving 1 vote: Artus Irbe (SJ), Tim Cheveldae (Det),
>  Clint Malarchuck (Buf/SD,IHL), Grant Fuhr (Buf), Rick Wamsley
>  (Tor,ret), Jon Casey (Minn), John Vanbiesbrouck (NYR),
>  Ken Dryden (Mon,ret), Bob Essensa (Win), Mike Vernon (Cal),
>  Glenn Healy (NYI), Tommy Soderstron (???), Ray LeBlanc (USA).
>
C'mon, Tommy Soderstrom is having a fine rookie (I think he's a rookie)
season with the Flyers. I'm sure most of you knew that already, but just
in case.
John P.
jfp001@acad.drake.edu
A longtime, but realistic Ranger fan who's willing to admit that the Rangers
sucked big-time this year. They don't even deserve the luxury of a nice
golf course with a warm breeze. God, talk about underachievers!
Mike Keenan - we're waiting for you!
>
> --
> GO SKINS!    ||"Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite
> GO BRAVES!   ||   an effect on you?" - Mike Patton, Faith No More
> GO HORNETS!  ||
> GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: SHARKS REVIEW Part 3: Defensemen (21-45)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Lines: 85
#21	PETER AHOLA		Season: 2nd
Acquired:	'92-93, trade with Pittsburgh for future considerations
Grade:		I (B)
It is way too early to tell about Ahola, who was acquired probably because the
Penguins figured that they would lose him in the expansion draft.  Ahola had
only played 50 games this season (I think it's actually less; the San Jose
Mercury News may be in err here), 20 of them with the Sharks.  In the games he
has played, he appeared quite solid defensively, although he hasn't been
spectacular, and his offense isn't anything to write home about (8 points);
it's even possible that the trade may be for future considerations which turn
out to be ... Peter Ahola.
#24	DOUG WILSON		Season: 16th
Acquired:	'91-92, trade with Chicago for RW Kerry Toporowski and
2nd round pick in '92 entry draft
Grade:		I (B)
I have often been accused of overly down on Wilson; I may have had too high
expectations for him, but his legs, knees, et al., are giving out.
Nevertheless, when he was playing, he exhibited a strong shooting and
playmaking abilities, even if he has lost a step on defense, which,
unfortunately, he demonstrated this year as well, as at times he was slow to
catch the opponent forwards, and his offensive output was only good enough for
2nd place on the team (20 points in 42 games).  But next year, which may be
Wilson's last, if he can stay healthy, he can still be a contributor.
#29	DEAN KOLSTAD		Season:	2nd
Acquired:	'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft
Grade:		I (C-/D+)
It's probably somewhat unfair for me to judge Kolstad on just a handful of
games (forgetting exact number, but no more than 15), but at age 25 he's
quickly running out of time if he wants to make it to the NHL.  In those games,
he did not impress anyone; after generating 7 shots in the first period of
the first game he played, he scored just 2 points in his tenure up here with
the Sharks, and was even less impressive defensively, as he appeared awkward
with his movement and was prone to giveaways.  He needs to make a leap in
his level of performance to have any chance of making the team.
#38	PAT MACLEOD		Season: 2nd
Acquired:	'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft
Grade:		I (?)
MacLeod was on the roster a lot longer than Kolstad, but it appears to my
memory that he played less than Kolstad, because the Sharks were reluctant to
use him, but were even more reluctant to send him to the minors, figuring that
he wouldn't clear waivers; in fact, he has played the past 4-5 weeks with
Kansas City, but is still technically there on a rehabilitation assignment,
a "rehab assignment" that will include him playing in the Turner Cup playoffs.
Since he has played so little, I can't even give a tentative grade on him, but
he demonstrated last year excellent offensive skills but terrible defensive
skills.
#41	TOM PEDERSON		Season: 1st
Acquired:	'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft
Grade:		I (B+)
Called up in the middle of the season when the defensive corps was decimated
by injuries, Pederson impressed many Sharks fan here on net, including yours
truly.  He demonstrated very good offensive skills, scoring 20 points in
43 games.  However, his size (5' 9", 165 lbs.) is of concern, and soon after
he began to shine offensive did teams begin to push him around physically,
on both sides of the ice, although he had appeared fearless in his approach.
But to be successful, he probably needs to bulk up to have a fighting chance
on surviving against some of the bigger players in the league.
#45	CLAUDIO SCREMIN		Season: 1st
Acquired:	'91-92, from Minnesota in dispersal draft
Grade:		I (D+/D)
He played all of ~5 games in the league this year, but was thoroughly
umimpressive, just as he was at the end of last season; again, it may be a
small sample, but just as in the case of Kolstad, Scremin, at age 25, is
quickly running out of time.  He was not a contributor on either offense or
defense in the games he played with the Sharks.  The only notable thing that
will go down in Scremin's entry of league stats is probably the fact that he
was once traded for now Capitals goaltender Don Beaupre.
===============================================================================
GO CALGARY FLAMES!  Al MacInnis for Norris!  Gary Roberts for Hart and Smythe!
GO EDMONTON OILERS!  Go for playoffs next year!  Stay in Edmonton!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
rec.sport.hockey contact for the San Jose Sharks
From: e8l6@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Rocket)
Subject: Dear Montana@pinetree.org  Re: Hockey Pool
Distribution: rec.sport.hockey
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Lines: 15
Hi there, I can't seem to get mail to you. Can you tell me your entire
adress, or even your dotted decimal address?
(ie. 131.202.3.10)
Thanks,
rocket@calvin.cs.unb.ca
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-                                                                           -
-    Maurice Richard                                                        -
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Stan Fischler, 4/16 (Keenan stuff!)
Summary: prior to Devils at Islanders Pregame
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Lines: 30
* The Keenan hiring is precipitated by the loss of an anticipated $5M
in playoff revenue and fears of losing season ticket-holders (!), plus
Paramount chief Stan Jaffe's chip against the Flyers over l'Affaire
Lindros last autumn.  Add to this that Neilsen might return as an
assistant coach [Gerald, what'd I say earlier today??], and Roger
conferred with Jaffe on the hiring.  This hiring by Jaffe went over
the head of MSG, Inc. (Par. subsidiary) head Bob Gutkowski and over
the head and the protests of Pres./GM Neil Smith.
* MSG is making the announcement on Saturday to get back at the
Islanders for making the playoffs (i.e., steal the press).
* Flyers owner Ed Snyder is livid and beside himself over this.
* Keenan will make up to $900,000/yr.
* Gary Bettman has appointed an independent consul to look at
Gil Stein's admission into the Hall of Fame.
* New crease colours, rather than blue?
* The Oilers will charge to eat in the Press Room next year.
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Playoff pool rule revision
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 10
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
Well, I will have to change the scoring on my playoff pool.  Unfortunately
I don't have time right now, but I will certainly post the new scoring
rules by tomorrow.  Does it matter?  No, you'll enter anyway!!!  Good!
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Re: Keenan signs with the Rangers!!
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 19
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
In article <1993Apr16.175300.98134@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> cpc4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (CONNIN PATRICK COLGAIN) writes:
>Just heard on the news that Mike Keenan formerly of the Blackhawks, Flyers,
>and General of a Siberian Prison has just signed to coach the Rangers.  The
>Rangers, who won the President's Cup last year have slipped just a bit at the
>end of the season and are destined to finish last behind the lowly Flyers.
>The Flyers' fans are going to be disappointed on Keenans decision, because
>they were very interested in him.  Oh well.
At least we got somebody the Flyers wanted ;-)
Is this really true?  I have not been keeping up with any news.  If it is,
what's the deal with Neil Smith?  Is he gone, too?
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Re: Devils and Islanders tiebreaker????
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 21
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
In article <C5LFA4.E10@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> cal2d@csissun11.ee.Virginia.EDU (Craig Allen Lorie) writes:
>According to the hockey gurus over at ESPN, should the Islanders win tonite
>the two teams will have the same record, but the Devils will be playing the
>Penguins.  This is because the Islanders have won the season series against
>the Devils.  I think the rules for deciding a tie breaker include:
>
>1.  season series
>2.  goals against
>3.  goals for
>
>in this order (correct me if I'm wrong).  Anyone have anything to add?
I think that they go to divisional records before goals, but I could be
wrong, too.
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
From: formeza@panix.com (The Owl)
Subject: Re: Hockey Cards For Sale
Keywords: Hockey Cards
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Lines: 87
In <C5H92x.Dtw@panix.com> formeza@panix.com (The Owl) writes:
In case anyone missed it, I'm reposting this and I'm also selling some other
stuff.
>I would like to sell a few of my Hockey Cards sets:
>1990-91 Upperdeck Hockey Low #'s Sets $45
>This is the first Upperdeck Hockey Set made. Important rookie cards in it are:
>Mogilny, Roenick, Belfour, Recchi, Stevens, Jagr, Nolan, Nedved, Ricci,
>Sundin, Modano, Richter and others! The Beckett price is $42, but I'm
>Charging $45 to cover the Shipping and Packaging.
I've sold one, but I still have 2 left for sale. I also realize that $45 is
alot of money, especially if you don't normally collect cards. So if enough
people are interested, I'll break up the set into team sets. I'm not sure
how much for each. It would be nice to just sell them for $3 each, but then
the people who get the Whalers and Devils (Note, I'm not bagging on these teams
its just that they don't have alot of good rookie cards in this set) would
be subsidizing the people who want Chicago or Pittsburgh. So I'll have to make
it varialble pricing. But most of them should be about $2 or $3 dollars.
>1991-92 Score Pinnacle (Candian) Sets $45
>This is a very nice set, premium quality cards. Has second year cards of the
>players above, plus Bure, Potvin, Falloon, and Lindros ($15 value) second year
>cards,and the following rookie cards: Lidstrom Kamensky, Zelepukin, Roussel,
>Konstantinov. Beckett Price is $50, but I have alot of these.
>1991-92 Upperdeck Czechoslovakian Set $60
>This is a 100 card set of the 92 World Junior Tournament. Meant for sale in
>Czechoslovakia, but didn't sell well there, and some of it filtere back in
>to the US. The cards are Bilingual. Has Lachance, Kovalev, and Straka Rookies.
>If your interested, please e-mail me. Thanks
Ok someone asked for this one, but he's from Canada, if he can get me the
money in US funds then its his, if not, the first person who writes in will
be the alternate.
Also I would like to sell 2 Upperdeck Pavel Bure rookie cards (note these
are not in the UD low #'s set mentioned above). $16 each. They are $15 in
the book, but the $1 goes for postage, packaging and insurance.
And if there is something you want that you don't see, e-mail me, I may have
it or may be able to get  it for you.
Thanks,
>The Owl
>Ted Formeza
>formeza@sun.panix.com
From: willis@oracle.SCG.HAC.COM (Stan Willis)
Subject: Kings regular season schedule/results
Reply-To: willis@empire.dnet.hac.com (Stan Willis)
Organization: none
Lines: 189
1992-93 Los Angeles Kings Schedule/Results
TV:
---
2 preseason games, 82 of 84 regular season and all playoffs on TV.
(PT)= Prime Ticket, (5) = KTLA Channel 5, (7) = ABC Channel 7 - playoffs
Radio:
------
All regular and preseason games broadcast on the Kings radio network.
Southern California 	XTRA -  690am (flagship)
Simi Valley		KWNK -  670am
Ankorage, Alaska	KBYR -  700am
El Centro		KAMP - 1430am
Fairbanks, Alaska	KIAK -  970am
Hemet/Temecula		KHSJ - 1320am
Lancaster/Palmdale	KAVL -  610am
Palm Desert		KNWZ - 1270am
Paso Robles		KPRL - 1230am
Reno, Nevada		KPLY - 1270am
Sacramento		KSAC - 1240am
San Luis Obispo	KKAL - 1280am
Santa Clarita		KBET - 1220am
Las Vegas, Nevada 	KENO - 1460am
Preseason:
----------
September/October:
18 LA  3 vs VAN 3 @ Vancouver   - 12,357 (0-0-1,  1 pt)
20 LA  5 vs PIT 2 @ Portland    -  6,124 (1-0-1,  3 pts) (PT)
23 LA  3 vs PIT 3 @ Tacoma      -  ?     (1-0-2,  4 pts)
24 LA  2 vs NYR 7 @ San Diego   -  8,099 (1-1-2,  4 pts) (PT)
26 LA  2 vs NYR 6 @ Phoenix     -  8,977 (1-2-2,  4 pts)
27 LA  4 vs SJ  2 @ Sacramento  -  7,950 (2-2-2,  6 pts)
30 LA  2 vs VAN 5 @ The Forum   - 10,250 (2-3-2,  6 pts)
03 LA  8 vs SJ  8 @ The Forum   - 12,005 (3-3-2,  8 pts)
--       --
Total 29       36
Regular Season:
---------------
October:
06 LA  5 @  Calgary      4 (OT) - 19,461 ( 1- 0- 0,   2 pts) (PT)
08 LA  3 vs Detroit      5      - 16,005 ( 1- 1- 0,   2 pts) (PT)
10 LA  6 vs Winnipeg     3      - 14,509 ( 2- 1- 0,   4 pts) (PT)
13 LA  2 vs San Jose     1      - 14,320 ( 3- 1- 0,   6 pts) (PT)
15 LA  4 vs Calgary      0      - 15,133 ( 4- 1- 0,   8 pts) (PT)
17 LA  8 vs Boston       6      - 16,005 ( 5- 1- 0,  10 pts) (PT)
20 LA  2  @ Calgary      6      - 19,169 ( 5- 2- 0,  10 pts)  (5)
23 LA  2  @ Winnipeg     4      - 12,924 ( 5- 3- 0,  10 pts) (PT)
24 LA  5  @ Minnesota    5      - 15,174 ( 5- 3- 1,  11 pts)  (5)
27 LA  4  @ NY Islanders 3      - 10,259 ( 6- 3- 1,  13 pts) (PT)
29 LA  3  @ Boston       8      - 14,448 ( 6- 4- 1,  13 pts) (PT)
31 LA  7  @ Hartford     1      -  9,244 ( 7- 4- 1,  15 pts)  (5)
--                --                -----------------
Oct.  51                46                 7- 4- 1,  15 pts
November:
05 LA  5 vs New Jersey   2      - 14,592 ( 8- 4- 1,  17 pts) (PT)
07 LA  5 vs Buffalo      2      - 16,005 ( 9- 4- 1,  19 pts) (PT)
08 LA 11  @ San Jose     4      - 11,089 (10- 4- 1,  21 pts) (no tv)
10 LA  4  @ Winnipeg     4      - 12,831 (10- 4- 2,  22 pts) (PT)
12 LA  7 vs Vancouver    4      - 15,486 (11- 4- 2,  24 pts) (PT)
14 LA  6 vs Edmonton     2      - 16,005 (12- 4- 2,  26 pts) (PT)
16 LA  3  @ Vancouver    6      - 15,896 (12- 5- 2,  26 pts) (PT)
17 LA  0  @ San Jose     6      - 11,089 (12- 6- 2,  26 pts) (PT)
19 LA  4 vs Chicago      1      - 16,005 (13- 6- 2,  28 pts) (PT)
21 LA  6 vs Toronto      4      - 16,005 (14- 6- 2,  30 pts) (PT)
25 LA  3  @ Edmonton     1      - 13,636 (15- 6- 2,  32 pts) (no tv)
27 LA  5  @ Detroit      3      - 19,875 (16- 6- 2,  34 pts) (PT)
28 LA  2  @ Toronto      3      - 15,720 (16- 7- 2,  34 pts) (PT)
--                --                -----------------
Nov.  61                42                 9- 3- 1,  19 pts
Year 112                88
December:
01 LA  6  @ Chicago      3      - 16,292 (17- 7- 2,  36 pts) at Milwaukee (PT)
03 LA  5 vs Pittsburgh   3      - 16,005 (18- 7- 2,  38 pts) (PT)
05 LA  7 vs Hartford     3      - 16,005 (19- 7- 2,  40 pts) (PT)
08 LA  5 vs Montreal     5      - 12,276 (19- 7- 3,  41 pts) at Phoenix (PT)
10 LA  4 vs Quebec       5      - 15,221 (19- 8- 3,  41 pts) (PT)
12 LA  6 vs St Louis     3      - 16,005 (20- 8- 3,  43 pts) (PT)
15 LA  2 vs Tampa Bay    3      - 15,753 (20- 9- 3,  43 pts) (PT)
18 LA  5  @ Edmonton     5      - 15,257 (20- 9- 4,  44 pts)  (5)
19 LA  3  @ Calgary      5      - 20,214 (20-10- 4,  44 pts) (PT)
22 LA  2 vs Vancouver    6      - 16,005 (20-11- 4,  44 pts) (PT)
26 LA  2  @ San Jose     7      - 11,089 (20-12- 4,  44 pts)  (5)
29 LA  2 vs Philadelphia 10     - 16,005 (20-13- 4,  44 pts) (PT)
31 LA  0  @ Vancouver    4      - 16,150 (20-14- 4,  44 pts) (PT)
--                --                -----------------
Dec.  49                62                 4- 7- 2,  10 pts
Year 161               150
January:
02 LA  5 vs Montreal     5      - 16,005 (20-14- 5,  45 pts) (PT)
06 LA  3 vs Tampa Bay    6      - 16,005 (20-15- 5,  45 pts) (PT)
08 LA  3  @ Winnipeg     6      - 14,036 (20-16- 5,  45 pts)  (5)
10 LA  5  @ Chicago      4      - 17,705 (21-16- 5,  47 pts)  (5)
12 LA  3  @ Ottawa       2      - 10,500 (22-16- 5,  49 pts) (PT)
14 LA  1  @ New Jersey   7      - 13,586 (22-17- 5,  49 pts) (PT)
16 LA  2 vs Winnipeg     5      - 16,005 (22-18- 5,  49 pts) (PT)
19 LA  5  @ Edmonton     4      - 16,686 (23-18- 5,  51 pts) (PT)
21 LA  4 vs Vancouver    5      - 16,005 (23-19- 5,  51 pts) (PT)
23 LA  3 vs NY Rangers   8      - 16,005 (23-20- 5,  51 pts) (PT)
26 LA  7 vs San Jose     1      - 16,005 (24-20- 5,  53 pts) (PT)
28 LA  1 vs Calgary      2      - 16,005 (24-21- 5,  53 pts) (PT)
30 LA  2 vs Chicago      2      - 16,005 (24-21- 6,  54 pts) (PT)
--                --                -----------------
Jan.  44                57                 4- 7- 2,  10 pts
Year 205               207
February:
02 LA  2  @ Quebec       3      - 14,843 (24-22- 6,  54 pts) (PT)
03 LA  2  @ Montreal     7      - 17,164 (24-23- 6,  54 pts) (PT)
09 LA  3 vs Edmonton     6      - 16,005 (24-24- 6,  54 pts) (PT)
11 LA  6 vs Detroit      6      - 16,005 (24-24- 7,  55 pts) (PT)
13 LA  3 vs Washington  10      - 16,005 (24-25- 7,  55 pts) (PT)
15 LA  3 vs Vancouver    0      - 16,005 (25-25- 7,  57 pts) (PT)
17 LA 10  @ Minnesota    5      - 14,911 (26-25- 7,  59 pts) (PT)
18 LA  2  @ Chicago      7      - 17,597 (26-26- 7,  59 pts) (PT)
20 LA  3  @ Washington   7      - 17,812 (26-27- 7,  59 pts) (PT)
22 LA  5  @ Tampa Bay    2      - 10,425 (27-27- 7,  61 pts) (PT)
25 LA  0  @ St Louis     3      - 13,473 (27-28- 7,  61 pts) (PT)
27 LA  2 vs Toronto      5      - 16,005 (27-29- 7,  61 pts) (PT)
--                --                -----------------
Feb.  41                61                 3- 8- 1,   7 pts
Year 246               268
March:
02 LA  6 vs Calgary      2      - 16,005 (28-29- 7,  63 pts) (PT)
04 LA  8 vs Ottawa       6      - 16,005 (29-29- 7,  65 pts) (PT)
06 LA  6 vs Edmonton     1      - 16,005 (30-29- 7,  67 pts) (PT)
09 LA  3  @ NY Rangers   4      - 18,200 (30-30- 7,  67 pts) (PT)
11 LA  3  @ Pittsburgh   4      - 16,164 (30-31- 7,  67 pts) (PT)
13 @ Philadelphia - Postponed after 1 period (1-1) due to weather. Resch for 4/1
14 @ Buffalo      - Postponed due to weather.  Rescheduled for 3/15.
15 LA  4  @ Buffalo      2      - 13,799 (31-31- 7,  69 pts) (PT)
16 LA  8 vs Winnipeg     4      - 16,005 (32-31- 7,  71 pts) (PT)
18 LA  7 vs NY Islanders 4      - 16,005 (33-31- 7,  73 pts) (PT)
20 LA  3 vs St Louis     2      - 16,005 (34-31- 7,  75 pts) (PT)
24 LA  2  @ Vancouver    6      - 16,150 (34-32- 7,  75 pts)  (5)
26 LA  4  @ Edmonton     1      - 17,503 (35-32- 7,  77 pts)  (5)
28 LA  3  @ Winnipeg     3      - 15,566 (35-32- 8,  78 pts) (PT)
29 LA  9  @ Detroit      3      - 19,875 (36-32- 8,  80 pts)  (5)
31 LA  5  @ Toronto      5      - 15,720 (36-32- 9,  81 pts) (PT)
--                --                -----------------
Mar.  71                47                 9- 3- 2,  20 pts
Year 317               315
April:
01 LA  3  @ Philadelphia 1      - 17,380 (37-32- 9,  83 pts) (PT) rescheduled
03 LA  0 vs Minnesota    3      - 16,005 (37-33- 9,  83 pts) (PT)
06 LA  3 vs Calgary      3      - 16,005 (37-33-10,  84 pts) (PT)
08 LA  2 vs San Jose     1      - 16,005 (38-33-10,  86 pts) (PT)
10 LA  3  @ San Jose     2 (OT) - 11,089 (39-33-10,  88 pts) (PT)
13 LA  4  @ Vancouver    7      - 16,150 (39-34-10,  88 pts) (PT)
15 LA  6 vs Vancouver    8      - 16,005 (39-35-10,  88 pts) (PT)
--                --                -----------------
Apr.  21                25                 3- 3- 1,   7 pts
Year 338               340                39-35-10,  88 pts -  3rd Smythe,
11th overall
Playoffs:
---------
April:
18   @ Calgary - 12:00 noon (7)
21   @ Calgary -  6:30 pm (PT)
23  vs Calgary -  7:30 pm (PT)
25  vs Calgary - 12:00 noon (7)**
*27  @ Calgary -  6:30 pm (PT)
*29 vs Calgary -  7:30 pm (PT)
May:
*01  @ Calgary -  6:30 pm (PT)
all times listed are Pacific Time.
*if necessary.
** may be shown on ABC, if televised by Prime Ticket, time is 7:30 pm.
===============================================================================
Stan Willis (willis@empire.dnet.hac.com)
net contact: L.A. Kings
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
talk with the L.A. Kings Mailing List ...... kings@cs.stanford.edu
to subscribe or unsubscribe: ....... kings-request@cs.stanford.edu
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
===============================================================================
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Possible Canadian WC Team?
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Lines: 39
This is an all-point team for the Canadian NHLers who are not playoff bound...
GOALIES
Bill Ranford, Edmonton
Sean Burke, Hartford
Peter Sidorkiewicz, Ottawa
DEFENSEMEN
Zarley Zalapski, Hartford
Norm MacIver, Ottawa
Garry Galley, Philadelphia
Greg Hawgood, Philadelphia
Dave Manson, Edmonton
Mark Tinordi, Minnesota
CENTERS
Mark Messier, N. Y. Rangers
Geoff Sanderson, Hartford
Brian Bradley, Tampa Bay
Rod Brind'Amour, Philadelphia
LEFT WINGS
Adam Graves, N. Y. Rangers
Chris Kontos, Tampa Bay
Patrick Poulin, Hartford
Shayne Corson, Edmonton
RIGHT WINGS
Pat Verbeek, Hartford
Russ Courtnall, Minnesota
Mike Gartner, N. Y. Rangers
Kevin Dineen, Philadelphia
===============================================================================
GO CALGARY FLAMES!  Al MacInnis for Norris!  Gary Roberts for Hart and Smythe!
GO EDMONTON OILERS!  Go for playoffs next year!  Stay in Edmonton!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
rec.sport.hockey contact for the San Jose Sharks
From: mikkot@romulus.math.jyu.fi (Mikko Tarkiainen)
Subject: Re: Pens Info needed
Nntp-Posting-Host: romulus.math.jyu.fi
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Lines: 33
In article <1993Apr16.171319.13467@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <1993Apr16.074054.3124@jyu.fi> mikkot@romulus.math.jyu.fi (Mikko Tarkiainen) writes:
>
>>Coaching news:
>>	       Vasili Tichonov (ex-Assat) to San Jose Sharks
>Wow.  So that's probably the reason why current assistant coach Drew Ramenda
>hinted that he won't be back.  Thanks for the news, Mikko; can you (or any
>of our Finnish netters) comment on Tichonov?
The first time I heard this piece of news was on the post game radio
interview here in Jyvaskyla. That was the bronze medal game in the
SM-liiga which Tichonov's team Porin Assat (the Aces of town Pori:)
lost.  Vasili, the son of Victor Tichonov (the famous Soviet coach),
said that for a long time the Sharks have been persuading him to
take the assistant coach post. But he wants to be the head coach where
ever he goes. He definitely won't be coaching Assat anymore (after
three? seasons). I don't know why.
Vasili is a good coach I believe. Assat was a good team, produced many
players to our national team. Assat wasn't a skilled team (IMHO) but
they had the fighting spirit. After all, they butchered Jokerit in the
playoffs and gave hard time to TPS, the champs. But Assat wasn't
consistent, only when they were in the right mood they could beat any
team in the SM-liiga.
I am not 100% sure about the deal with the Sharks. As I said, he wants
to be the head coach. But he and the Sharks are going to negotiate and
decide during the WC. I doubt that he will be the head coach but
maybe they'll do some compromise.
Could somebody post more information about Vasili? I know he was coaching
in the former Soviet league; teams, results? His character as a coach?
Organization: Penn State University
From: Robbie Po <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Devils and Islanders tiebreaker????
Lines: 14
In article <C5LDI2.77u@odin.corp.sgi.com>, enolan@sharkbite.esd.sgi.com (Ed
Nolan) says:
>If the Islanders beat the Devils tonight, they would finish with
>identical records.  Who's the lucky team that gets to face the Penguins
>in the opening round?   Also, can somebody list the rules for breaking
>ties.
As I recall, the Penguins and Devils tied for third place last year
with identical records, as well.  Poor Devils -- they always get screwed.
Yet, they should put a scare into Pittsburgh.  They always do!  Pens in 7.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
** Robbie Po **          PGH PENGUINS!!!    "It won't be easy, but it
Contact for the '93-'94  '91 STANLEY CUP    will have greater rewards.
Penn State Lady Lions    '92 CHAMPIONS      Mountains and Valleys are
rap115@psuvm.psu.edu     11 STRAIGHT WINS!  better than nothing at all!"
Organization: Penn State University
From: Robbie Po <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Goodbye, good riddance, get lost 'Stars
Lines: 22
In article <DT642B1w165w@sms.business.uwo.ca>, s4lawren@sms.business.uwo.ca
(Stephen Lawrence) says:
>        Goodbye Minnesota,...you never earned the right to have an NHL
>franchise in the first place!
>        Hope you enjoy your Twin city wide mania for HIGH SCHOOL HOCKEY
>(hey, by the way my old pee wee team is having a reunion in Regina, care
>to come up and film the event?)
>        Yee haa Golden Gophers
>Whatta weird town!!!!!
--Minnesota definitely deserves an NHL franchise!!!  You'll see the
Minnesota Whalers pretty soon, so fear not Minnesota fans.  No Norm Green,
'cept for the team color (sorry, bad pun!)
--What a difference two years makes!  Minnesota finished 29-37-14 in 1992
and made the finals.  They finish with a better record at  38-38-10 thi year
and move to Dallas.  Every team in the playoffs has a winning record!!!
Finally!!!  It's about time, NHL!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
** Robbie Po **          PGH PENGUINS!!!    "It won't be easy, but it
Contact for the '93-'94  '91 STANLEY CUP    will have greater rewards.
Penn State Lady Lions    '92 CHAMPIONS      Mountains and Valleys are
rap115@psuvm.psu.edu     11 STRAIGHT WINS!  better than nothing at all!"
From: mmilitzo@scott.skidmore.edu (matthew militzok)
Subject: 1992 - 1993 FINAL NHL PLAYER STATS
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Lines: 8
If you are interested in receiving the final player stats for
the 1992-1993 NHL Season as well as playoff box scores, stats and
scores/updates...
then e-mail my stat server
mmilitzo@skidmore.edu
the subject of the message must be:	STATS
From: etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson)
Subject: WC: Scores and standings, April 18
Organization: Ericsson Telecom, Stockholm, Sweden
Lines: 71
Nntp-Posting-Host: uipc104.ericsson.se
1993 World Championships in Germany:
====================================
Group A standings (Munich)	Group B	standings (Dortmund)
--------------------------	----------------------------
GP  W T L GF-GA P	              GP  W T L GF-GA P
Sweden      1  1 0 0  1-0  2	Germany        1  1 0 0  6-0  2
Italy       1  0 1 0  2-2  1 	Czech republic 1  0 1 0  1-1  1
Russia      1  0 1 0  2-2  1	USA            1  0 1 0  1-1  1
Canada      0  0 0 0  0-0  0	Finland        0  0 0 0  0-0  0
Switzerland 0  0 0 0  0-0  0	France         0  0 0 0  0-0  0
Austria     1  0 0 1  0-1  0	Norway         1  0 0 1  0-6  0
April 18:  Italy - Russia    2-2           Norway - Germany      0-6
Sweden - Austria  1-0           USA - Czech republic  1-1
April 19:  Canada - Switzerland					15:30
Russia - Austria                Finland - France		20:00
April 20:  Sweden - Canada                 Czech republic - Germany	15:30
Switzerland - Italy             Finland - USA		20:00
April 21:                                  Germany - France		15:30
Italy - Sweden                  Czech republic - Norway	20:00
April 22:  Switzerland - Russia            USA - France		15:30
Austria - Canada                Norway - Finland		20:00
April 23:  Switzerland - Austria           Germany - Finland		20:00
April 24:  Russia - Sweden                 Czech republic - France	15:30
Canada - Italy                  USA - Norway		20:00
April 25:  Sweden - Switzerland            Finland- Czech republic  	15:30
Russia - Canada                 Germany - USA		20:00
April 26:  Austria - Italy                 France - Norway		20:00
PLAYOFFS:
=========
April 27:	Quarterfinals
A #2 - B #3						15:30
A #3 - B #2						20:00
April 28:	Quarterfinals
A #1 - B #4						15:30
A #4 - B #1						20:00
April 29:	Relegation
A #5 - B #6						15:30
A #6 - B #5						20:00
April 30:	Semifinals
A #1/B #4 - A #3/B #2					15:30
A #4/B #1 - A #2/B #3					20:00
May 1:		Relegation						14:30
Bronze medal game 					19:00
May 2:		FINAL							15:00
--
((\\  //| Staffan Axelsson
\\  //|| etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se
\\_))//-|| r.s.h. contact for Swedish hockey
From: Marc VanHeyningen <mvanheyn@cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: RIPEM Frequently Asked Questions
Content-Type: text/x-usenet-FAQ; version=1.0; title="RIPEM FAQ"
Originator: mvanheyn@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Supersedes: <1993Jan25.113427.28926@news.cs.indiana.edu>
Nntp-Posting-Host: silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Expires: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 00:00:00 GMT
Lines: 255
Archive-name: ripem/faq
Last-update: Sun, 7 Mar 93 21:00:00 -0500
ABOUT THIS POSTING
------------------
This is a (still rather rough) listing of likely questions and
information about RIPEM, a program for public key mail encryption.  It
(this FAQ, not RIPEM) was written and will be maintained by Marc
VanHeyningen, <mvanheyn@whale.cs.indiana.edu>.  It will be posted to a
variety of newsgroups on a monthly basis; follow-up discussion specific
to RIPEM is redirected to the group alt.security.ripem.
This month, I have reformatted this posting in an attempt to comply
with the standards for HyperText FAQ formatting to allow easy
manipulation of this document over the World Wide Web.  Let me know
what you think.
DISCLAIMER
----------
Nothing in this FAQ should be considered legal advice, or anything
other than one person's opinion.  If you want real legal advice, talk
to a real lawyer.
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
---------------------
1)  What is RIPEM?
RIPEM is a program which performs Privacy Enhanced Mail (PEM) using
the cryptographic techniques of RSA and DES.  It allows your
electronic mail to have the properties of authentication (i.e. who
sent it can be confirmed) and privacy (i.e. nobody can read it except
the intended recipient.)
RIPEM was written primarily by Mark Riordan <mrr@scss3.cl.msu.edu>.
Most of the code is in the public domain, except for the RSA routines,
which are a library called RSAREF licensed from RSA Data Security Inc.
2)  How can I get RIPEM?
RIPEM contains the library of cryptographic routines RSAREF, which is
considered munitions and thus is export-restricted from distribution
to people who are not citizens or permanent residents of the U.S. or
Canada.  Therefore, the following request is quoted from the README
file:
#Please do not export the cryptographic code in this distribution
#outside of the USA or Canada.  This is a personal request from me,
#the author of RIPEM, and a condition of your use of RIPEM.
Note that RSAREF is not in the public domain, and a license for it is
included with the distribution.  You should read it before using
RIPEM.
The best way to get it is to ask a friend for a copy, since this will
reduce the load on those sites that do carry it (not to mention the
humans that run them.)  Naturally this requires that you trust the
friend.
RIPEM is available via anonymous FTP to citizens and permanent residents
in the U.S. from rsa.com; cd to rsaref/ and read the README file for
info.  Last I looked, this site contains only the source tree, and
does not contain compiled binaries or the nice Mac version.
RIPEM, as well as some other crypt stuff, has its "home site" on
rpub.cl.msu.edu, which is open to non-anonymous FTP for users in the
U.S. and Canada who are citizens or permanent residents.  To find out
how to obtain access, ftp there, cd to pub/crypt/, and read the file
GETTING_ACCESS.  For convenience, binaries for many architectures are
available here in addition to the full source tree.
3)  Will RIPEM run on my machine?
Probably.  It has already been ported to MS-DOS and most flavors of
Unix (SunOS, NeXT, Linux, AIX, ULTRIX, Solaris, etc.)  Ports to
Macintosh include a standard UNIX-style port and a rather nice
Mac-like port written by Raymond Lau, author of StuffIt.  More ports
are expected, and help of users is invited.
4)  Will RIPEM work with my mailer?
Probably.  How easy and clean the effective interface is will depend
on the sophistication and modularity of the mailer, though.  The users
guide, included with the distribution, discusses ways to use RIPEM
with many popular mailers, including Berkeley, mush, Elm, and MH.
Code is also included in elisp to allow easy use of RIPEM inside GNU
Emacs.
If you make a new interface for RIPEM or create an improvement on one
in the distribution which you believe is convenient to use, secure,
and may be useful to others, feel free to post it to alt.security.ripem.
5)  What is RSA?
RSA is a crypto system which is asymmetric, or public-key.  This means
that there are two different, related keys: one to encrypt and one to
decrypt.  Because one cannot (reasonably) be derived from the other,
you may publish your encryption, or public key widely and keep your
decryption, or private key to yourself.  Anyone can use your public
key to encrypt a message, but only you hold the private key needed to
decrypt it.  (Note that the "message" sent with RSA is normally just
the DES key to the real message. (See "What is DES?")
Note that the above only provides for privacy.  For authentication,
the fingerprint of the message (See "What is a fingerprint, like
MD5?") is encrypted with the sender's private key.  The recipient can
use the sender's public key to decrypt it and confirm that the message
must have come from the sender.
RSA was named for the three men (Rivest, Shamir and Adleman) who
invented it.  To find out more about RSA, ftp to rsa.com and look in
pub/faq/ or look in sci.crypt.
6)  What is DES?
DES is the Data Encryption Standard, a widely used symmetric, or
secret-key, crypto system.  Unlike RSA, DES uses the same key to
encrypt and decrypt messages.  However, DES is much faster than RSA.
RIPEM uses both DES and RSA; it generates a random key and encrypts
your mail with DES using that key.  It then encrypts that key with the
recipient's public RSA key and includes the result in the letter,
allowing the recipient to recover the DES key.
DES is sometimes considered weak because it is somewhat old and uses a
key length considered too short by modern standards.  However, it
should be reasonably safe against an opponent smaller than a large
corporation or government agency.  It is not unlikely that future
RIPEMs will strengthen the symmetric cipher, possibly by using
multiple encryption with DES.
7)  What is PEM, and how does RIPEM relate?
PEM is Privacy Enhanced Mail, a system for allowing easy transfer of
encrypted electronic mail.  It is described in RFCs 1421-1424; these
documents have been approved and obsolete the old RFCs 1113-1115.
RIPEM is not really a complete implementation of PEM, because PEM
specifies certificates for authenticating keys, which RIPEM does not
handle at this time.  Their addition is planned.
8)  What's this about distributing and authenticating keys?
For a remote user to be able to send secure mail to you, she must know
your public key.  For you to be able to confirm that the message
received came from her, you must know her public key.  It is important
that this information be accurate; if a "bad guy" convinces her that
his key is in fact yours, she will send messages which he can read.
RIPEM allows for three methods of key management: a central server,
the distributed finger servers, and a flat file.  All three are
described in the RIPEM users guide which is part of the distribution.
None of them provide perfect security.
9)  Why do all RIPEM public keys look very similar?
RIPEM public keys begin with a PKCS identifier describing various
characteristics about the key, so the first bunch of characters in
your key may be the same as those of lots of other people's keys.
This does not mean your keys are similar, but only that they are the
same class of key, were generated with the same program, are of the
same length, etc.
10)  What is a fingerprint, like MD5?
MD5 is a message digest algorithm produced by RSA Data Security Inc.
It provides a 128-bit fingerprint, or cryptographically secure hash,
of the plaintext.  It is cryptographically secure because it is not
possible (in a reasonable amount of computation) to produce a
different plaintext which produces the same fingerprint.  Thus,
instead of signing the entire message with the sender's private key,
only the MD5 of the message needs to be signed for authentication.
MD5 is sometimes used for other purposes; for example, it is often
used to map an input of arbitrary length to 128 bits of data, as a
passphrase interpreter or cookie generator.
MD5 is described in its entirety (including an implementation in C) in
RFC 1321.
11)  What is PGP?
PGP is another cryptographic mail program called Pretty Good Privacy.
PGP has been around longer than RIPEM, and works somewhat differently.
PGP is not compatible with RIPEM in any way, though PGP does also use RSA.
Some major differences between PGP and RIPEM:
- PGP has more key management features, particularly for users without
a direct network connection.
- RIPEM conforms to the PEM RFCs and thus has a greater probability of
working with other PEM software.  PGP makes no attempt to be compatible
with anything other than PGP (in fact, PGP 1.0 is not compatible with
PGP 2.0.)
- RIPEM uses RSAREF, a library of RSA routines from RSA Data Security
Inc.  RSAREF comes with a license which allows noncommercial use.
PGP uses its own implementation of RSA which is not licensed; thus,
PKP, the firm holding the U.S. patents on the RSA algorithm, claims
that it is a infringement of that patent to make, use or sell PGP in
the U.S. or Canada.  In acknowledgement of this, PGP's original
author, Phil Zimmermann, says in the documentation:
#In fact, if you live in the USA, and you are not a Federal agency,
#you shouldn't actually run PGP on your computer, because Public
#Key Partners wants to forbid you from running my software.  PGP is
#contraband.
- Both PGP and RIPEM are export-restricted, and cannot be sent outside
the U.S. and Canada.  However, PGP already exists on many ftp sites
in Europe and other places.
Whether you use PGP or RIPEM or whatever, the documentation to PGP is
recommended reading to anyone interested in such issues.
Note that the above facts, both regarding patent and export
restrictions, are somewhat controversial; many people think it
shouldn't be that way, and some people interpret various documents
differently.  Unfortunately, discussions of it on the net inevitably
seem to produce more heat than light, and probably belong in
misc.legal.computing.  (See:  "DISCLAIMER")
12)  What about RPEM?
RPEM stands for Rabin Privacy Enhanced Mail.  It was similar to RIPEM,
but used a public-key cipher invented by Rabin (which is not RSA) in
an attempt to avoid the patent on RSA.  It was written by Mark
Riordan, the same author as RIPEM.
Its distribution was halted when, contrary to the beliefs of many
(including Rabin), Public Key Partners (PKP) claimed that their patent
was broad enough to cover any public-key cipher whose strength rested
in the difficulty of factoring products of large primes, not just RSA.
This claim is not universally accepted by any means, but was not
challenged for pragmatic reasons.
RPEM is not really used anymore.  It is not compatible with RIPEM or PGP.
13)  What is MIME?
MIME stands for Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions, and is
described in RFC 1341.  You can find out about it in the newsgroup
comp.mail.mime.  How PEM should interact with MIME is not yet entirely
clear; some people use the stopgap solution of having a MIME type
application/x-ripem in order to send RIPEM messages as MIME ones.  I
hope some standards will emerge.  Draft Internet documents exist on
the matter.
14)  I have this simple way to defeat the security of RIPEM...
You may wish to check the companion post "ripem-attacks" which
discusses some of the more obvious attacks on RIPEM's security and
what procedures will minimize the risk.  RIPEM's main "weak area" is
probably key distribution.
From: mvanheyn@cs.indiana.edu (Marc VanHeyningen)
Subject: RIPEM Frequently Asked Questions
Article-I.D.: usenet.C4qoA0.CA6
Expires: Thu, 20 May 1993 00:00:00 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Lines: 360
Content-Type: text/x-usenet-FAQ; version=1.0; title="RIPEM FAQ"
Originator: mvanheyn@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Nntp-Posting-Host: silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Archive-name: ripem/faq
Last-update: 31 Mar 93 22:00:00 -0500
ABOUT THIS POSTING
------------------
This is a listing of likely questions and information about RIPEM, a
program for public key mail encryption.  It (this FAQ, not RIPEM) was
written and will be maintained by Marc VanHeyningen
<mvanheyn@cs.indiana.edu>.  It will be posted to a variety of
newsgroups on a monthly basis; follow-up discussion specific to RIPEM
is redirected to the group alt.security.ripem.
WHAT'S NEW
----------
I am now running a World Wide Web archive of RIPEM information.  It
does not contain much of anything that isn't available elsewhere, but
it has convenient pointers to the most current version of this FAQ and
some other stuff.  The URL is "http://cs.indiana.edu/ripem/dir.html".
This month's version has a fair amount of new pointers to information
on patents and stuff like that.  I've also reordered a few things to
have a more sensible ordering.  I hope I don't have to edit this again
soon. :-)
DISCLAIMER
----------
Nothing in this FAQ should be considered legal advice, or anything
other than one layperson's opinion.  If you want real legal advice,
talk to a real lawyer, preferably one with experience in patent law,
export regulations, or whatever area of law is in question.
LIST OF QUESTIONS
-----------------
1)  What is RIPEM?
2)  How can I get RIPEM?
3)  Will RIPEM run on my machine?
4)  Will RIPEM work with my mailer?
5)  What is RSA?
6)  What is DES?
7)  What is a fingerprint, like MD5?
8)  What is PEM?
9)  What's this about distributing and authenticating keys?
10)  Isn't it a bad idea to use patented algorithms in standards like PEM?
11)  What about RSADSI/PKP?
12)  Why do all RIPEM public keys look very similar?
13)  What is PGP?
14)  What about RPEM?
15)  What is MIME?
16)  What is TIS/PEM?
17)  I have this simple way to defeat the security of RIPEM...
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
---------------------
1)  What is RIPEM?
RIPEM is a (not yet complete, but useful) implementation of Privacy
Enhanced Mail (PEM).  RIPEM allows your electronic mail to have the
four security facilities provided by PEM: disclosure protection
(optional), originator authenticity, message integrity measures, and
non-repudiation of origin (always).  (See: "What is PEM?")
RIPEM was written primarily by Mark Riordan <mrr@scss3.cl.msu.edu>.
Most of the code is in the public domain, except for the RSA routines,
which are a library called RSAREF licensed from RSA Data Security Inc.
The current version of RIPEM is 1.0.5; the current version of the
Macintosh port of RIPEM is 0.7.
2)  How can I get RIPEM?
RIPEM uses the library of cryptographic routines RSAREF, which is
considered munitions and thus is export-restricted from distribution
to persons who are not citizens or permanent residents in the U.S or
Canada without an export license.  No such license has been obtained
(nor would one likely be granted unless the RSA key exchange were
shortened to 512 bits and the symmetric cipher changed to something
weaker than DES.  There are some suggestions that this situation may
change now that Clinton is in office.)  The author requests in the
README file that this law not be violated:
#Please do not export the cryptographic code in this distribution
#outside of the USA or Canada.  This is a personal request from me,
#the author of RIPEM, and a condition of your use of RIPEM.
Note that RSAREF is not in the public domain, and a license for it is
included with the distribution.  You should read it before using
RIPEM.
RIPEM is available via anonymous FTP to citizens and permanent
residents in the U.S. from rsa.com; cd to rsaref/ and read the README
file for info.  Note that the non-RSAREF portion of RIPEM is not a
product of RSA Data Security, Incorporated; they merely are helping
distribute it.
RIPEM, as well as some other crypt stuff, has its "home site" on
ripem.msu.edu, which is open to non-anonymous FTP for users in the
U.S. and Canada who are citizens or permanent residents.  To find out
how to obtain access, FTP there, cd to pub/crypt/, and read the file
GETTING_ACCESS.  For convenience, binaries for many architectures are
available here in addition to the full source tree.
3)  Will RIPEM run on my machine?
Probably.  It has already been ported to MS-DOS and most flavors of
Unix (SunOS, NeXT, Linux, AIX, ULTRIX, Solaris, etc.)  Ports to
Macintosh include a standard UNIX-style port and a rather nice
Mac-like port written by Raymond Lau, author of StuffIt.  More ports
are expected, and help of users is invited.
4)  Will RIPEM work with my mailer?
Probably.  How easy and clean the effective interface is will depend
on the sophistication and modularity of the mailer, though.  The users
guide, included with the distribution, discusses ways to use RIPEM
with many popular mailers, including Berkeley, mush, Elm, and MH.
Code is also included in elisp to allow easy use of RIPEM inside GNU
Emacs.
If you make a new interface for RIPEM or create an improvement on one
in the distribution which you believe is convenient to use, secure,
and may be useful to others, feel free to post it to alt.security.ripem.
5)  What is RSA?
RSA is a crypto system which is asymmetric, or public-key.  This means
that there are two different, related keys: one to encrypt and one to
decrypt.  Because one cannot (reasonably) be derived from the other,
you may publish your encryption, or public, key widely and keep your
decryption, or private, key to yourself.  Anyone can use your public
key to encrypt a message, but only you hold the private key needed to
decrypt it.  Note that the "message" sent with RSA is normally just
the DES key to the real plaintext. (See "What is DES?")
Note that the above only provides for disclosure protection.  For
originator authenticity, message integrity, and non-repudiation of
origin services to be implemented, the fingerprint of the message
(See "What is a fingerprint, like MD5?") is encrypted with the
sender's private key.  The recipient, or a dispute-resolving
authority, can use the sender's public key to decrypt it and confirm
that the message must have come from the sender and was not altered.
RSA was named for the three men (Rivest, Shamir and Adleman) who
invented it.  To find out lots more about RSA and modern cryptography
in general, ftp to rsa.com and look in pub/faq/.  Some information
also may be in sci.crypt.
6)  What is DES?
DES is the Data Encryption Standard, a widely used symmetric, or
secret-key, crypto system.  Unlike RSA, DES uses the same key to
encrypt and decrypt messages.  However, DES is much faster than RSA.
RIPEM uses both DES and RSA; it generates a random key and encrypts
your mail with DES using that key.  It then encrypts that key with the
recipient's public RSA key and includes the result in the letter,
allowing the recipient to recover the DES key.
DES is sometimes considered weak because it is somewhat old and uses a
key length considered too short by modern standards.  However, it
should be reasonably safe against an opponent smaller than a large
corporation or government agency.  It is not likely that the PEM
standard will incorporate support for other symmetric ciphers in the
near future, because there is a strong feeling that PEM should be
stable so it can become utilized widely without early problems with
interoperability.
7)  What is a fingerprint, like MD5?
MD5 is a message digest algorithm produced by RSA Data Security Inc.
It provides a 128-bit fingerprint, or cryptographically secure hash,
of the plaintext.  It is cryptographically secure because it is not
possible (in a reasonable amount of computation) to produce a
different plaintext which produces the same fingerprint.  Thus,
instead of signing the entire message with the sender's private key,
only the MD5 of the message needs to be signed for authentication.
MD5s can also be exchanged directly for authentication; for example,
RIPEM public keys include an MD5 of the public key in the file, so
parties wishing to confirm their keys are authentic via a separate
channel merely need exchange MD5s of keys and verify their accuracy.
MD5 is sometimes used for other purposes; for example, it is often
used to map an input of arbitrary length to 128 bits of data, as a
passphrase interpreter or cookie generator.
MD5 is described in its entirety (including an implementation in C) in
RFC 1321.
There have been some recent suggestions that MD5 may not be as strong
a hash as was originally believed; presumably some other hash
function will be used if this is accepted as true.
8)  What is PEM?
PEM is Privacy Enhanced Mail, a standard for allowing transfer of
encrypted electronic mail generated over a long period of time by a
working group of experts.  It is described in RFCs 1421-1424; these
documents have been approved and obsolete the old RFCs 1113-1115.
RIPEM is not really a complete implementation of PEM, because PEM
specifies certificates for authenticating keys, which RIPEM does not
handle at this time.  Their addition is planned.
9)  What's this about distributing and authenticating keys?
For a remote user to be able to send secure mail to you, she must know
your public key.  For you to be able to confirm that the message
received came from her, you must know her public key.  It is important
that this information be accurate; if a "bad guy" convinces her that
his key is in fact yours, she will send messages which he can read.
RIPEM allows for three methods of key management: a central server,
the distributed finger servers, and a flat file.  All three are
described in the RIPEM users guide which is part of the distribution.
None of them provide perfect security.  The PEM standard calls for
key management by certificates; the addition of this feature to RIPEM
is planned, but chicken-egg issues still exist.
10)  Isn't it a bad idea to use patented algorithms in standards like PEM?
This issue has been considered in the standards process.  RFC 1310,
the specification for Internet standards, has a discussion (section
6) on what specifications for nondiscriminatory availability must be
met for a patented method to be included in a standard.  RFC 1421
addresses this issue with regard to the patents covering public-key
cryptography.
This does not, of course, mean that all questions are settled or that
everyone is in agreement.  An interesting exchange on the use of
patented algorithms in standards with regard to public-key
cryptography is in the League for Programming Freedom archive
(available via FTP: ftp.uu.net:/doc/lpf) in the files bidzos.letter
and bidzos.response.  (Amusingly, the LPF files on ftp.uu.net are
compressed with a patented algorithm.)
11)  What about RSADSI/PKP?
RSA Data Security, Inc. (RSADSI) is a California-based company
specializing in cryptographic technologies.  Public Key Partners is a
firm which holds exclusive sub-licensing rights of the following U.S.
patents and all of their corresponding foreign patents:
Cryptographic Apparatus and Method
("Diffie-Hellman")............................... No. 4,200,770
Public Key Cryptographic Apparatus
and Method ("Hellman-Merkle").................... No. 4,218,582
Cryptographic Communications System and
Method ("RSA")................................... No. 4,405,829
Exponential Cryptographic Apparatus
and Method ("Hellman-Pohlig").................... No. 4,424,414
PKP claims these four patents cover all known methods of public key
cryptography.  The two businesses are rather closely related (for
example, the same person, Jim Bidzos, is president of both of them.)
PKP has licensed this technology to a considerable number of
companies (IBM, DEC, Motorola, AT&T, Lotus...) for use in their
products.  PKP has also threatened and filed lawsuits defending their
patents.
RIPEM was originally created with no connection to RSADSI other than
its use of the RSAREF library, and for no reason other than its
author's desire to see widespread use of public-key cryptography.
However, after the ball started rolling, people at RSADSI got
interested.  RSADSI decided to carry RIPEM on its FTP site, and some
people there started making their own RIPEM keys and contributing
code.  RIPEM even won the "Best Application Built on RSAREF in 1992"
award.
12)  Why do all RIPEM public keys look very similar?
RIPEM public keys begin with a PKCS (Public-Key Cryptography
Standards) identifier describing various characteristics about the
key, so the first bunch of characters in your key may be the same as
those of lots of other people's keys.  This does not mean your keys
are similar, but only that they are the same class of key, were
generated with the same program, are of the same length, etc.
13)  What is PGP?
PGP is another cryptographic mail program called Pretty Good Privacy.
PGP has been around longer than RIPEM, and works somewhat differently.
PGP is not compatible with RIPEM in any way, though PGP does also use RSA.
A few major differences between PGP and RIPEM:
- PGP has more key management features, particularly for users without
a direct network connection.
- RIPEM conforms to the PEM RFCs and thus has a greater probability
of working with other PEM software.  PGP makes no attempt to be
compatible with anything other than itself.
- RIPEM uses RSAREF, a library of RSA routines from RSADSI which
comes with a license allowing noncommercial use.  PGP uses its own
implementation of RSA.  PKP claims that it is a violation of its
patents to "make, use or sell" PGP in the U.S. or Canada without
either a license or written permission.  (See: "DISCLAIMER")
(See: "What about RSADSI/PKP?")  Phil Zimmermann, the author of
PGP, stopped distributing it after being threatened with legal
action; he believed that a licensing scheme could be arranged, but
it hasn't happened and there seems little prospect of it happening
in the future.  He acknowledges in the PGP User's Guide:
#In fact, if you live in the USA, and you are not a Federal agency,
#you shouldn't actually run PGP on your computer, because Public
#Key Partners wants to forbid you from running my software.  PGP is
#contraband.
- Both PGP and RIPEM are export-restricted, and cannot be sent outside
the U.S. and Canada without an export license.  However, PGP
already exists on many ftp sites in Europe and other places.
Whether you use PGP or RIPEM or whatever, the documentation to PGP is
recommended reading to anyone interested in such issues.
Unfortunately, it's not distributed separately from the program,
which can be difficult to find in the U.S. on FTP sites due to
liability concerns.
14)  What about RPEM?
RPEM stands for Rabin Privacy Enhanced Mail.  It was similar to RIPEM,
but used a public-key cipher invented by Rabin (which is not RSA) in
an attempt to avoid the patents on public-key systems.  It was
written by Mark Riordan, who later wrote RIPEM.
Its distribution was halted when, contrary to the beliefs of many
(including Rabin), PKP claimed that their patents were broad enough
to cover the cipher employed.  This claim is not universally
accepted, but was not challenged for pragmatic reasons.
RPEM is not really used anymore.  It is not compatible with RIPEM or PGP.
15)  What is MIME?
MIME stands for Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions, and is
described in RFC 1341.  You can find out about it in the newsgroup
comp.mail.mime; a FAQ exists on it.  How PEM should interact with
MIME is not yet entirely clear; some people use the stopgap solution
of having a MIME type application/x-ripem in order to send RIPEM
messages as MIME ones.  I hope some standards will emerge.  Draft
Internet documents exist on the matter.
16)  What is TIS/PEM?
Trusted Information Systems is working on a version of Privacy
Enhanced Mail for general availability.  Last I heard, it was
rumored to be integrated into an existing mail user agent (MH)
rather than a stand-alone system, and in beta test.  I don't know
much more than that.
17)  I have this simple way to defeat the security of RIPEM...
You may wish to check the companion post "ripem-attacks" which
discusses some of the more obvious attacks on RIPEM's security and
what procedures will minimize the risk.  RIPEM's main "weak area" is
probably key distribution.
From: mvanheyn@cs.indiana.edu (Marc VanHeyningen)
Subject: RIPEM Frequently Noted Vulnerabilities
Article-I.D.: usenet.C4qoH8.CHE
Expires: Thu, 20 May 1993 00:00:00 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Lines: 163
Content-Type: text/x-usenet-FAQ; version=1.0; title="RIPEM Attacks"
Originator: mvanheyn@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Supersedes: <C3JvK9.Ey1@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Nntp-Posting-Host: silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Archive-name: ripem/attacks
Last-update: 31 Mar 93 21:00:00 -0500
SOME POSSIBLE ATTACKS ON RIPEM
------------------------------
This is a living list of potential weaknesses to keep your eyes open
for when using RIPEM for secure electronic mail.  It does not go into
great detail, and is almost certainly not exhaustive.  Obviously, many
of the weaknesses are weaknesses of cryptographically secured mail in
general, and will pertain to secure mail programs other than RIPEM.
It is maintained by Marc VanHeyningen <mvanheyn@cs.indiana.edu>.  It
is posted monthly to a variety of news groups; followups pertaining
specifically to RIPEM should go to alt.security.ripem.
CRYPTANALYSIS ATTACKS
---------------------
- Breaking RSA would allow an attacker to find out your private key,
in which case he could read any mail encrypted to you and sign
messages with your private key.
RSA is generally believed to be resistant to all standard
cryptanalytic techniques.  Even a standard key (about 516 bits with
RIPEM) is long enough to render this impractical, barring a
huge investment in hardware or a breakthrough in factoring.
- Breaking DES would allow an attacker to read any given message,
since the message itself is encrypted with DES.  It would not allow
an attacker to claim to be you.
DES has only 56 bits in its key, and thus could conceivably be
compromised by brute force with sufficient hardware, but few agencies
have such money to devote to simply read one message.  Since each
message has a different DES key, the work for each message would
remain high.
KEY MANAGEMENT ATTACKS
----------------------
- Stealing your private key would allow the same benefits as breaking
RSA.  To safeguard it, it is encrypted with a DES key which is derived
from a passphrase you type in.  However, if an attacker can get a copy
of your private keyfile and your passphrase (by snooping network
packets, tapping lines, or whatever) he could break the whole scheme.
The main risk is that of transferring either the passphrase or the
private key file across an untrusted link.  So don't do that.  Run
RIPEM on a trusted machine, preferably one sitting right in front of
you.  Ideally, your own machine in your own home (or maybe office)
which nobody else has physical access to.
- Fooling you into accepting a bogus public key for someone else could
allow an opponent to deceive you into sending secret messages to him
rather than to the real recipient.  If the enemy can fool your
intended recipient as well, he could re-encrypt the messages with
the other bogus public key and pass them along.
It is important to get the proper public keys of other people.
The most common mechanism for this is finger; assuming the opponent
has not compromised routers or daemons or such, finger can be
given a fair amount of trust.  The strongest method of key
authentication is to exchange keys in person; however, this is
not always practical.  Having other people "vouch for you" by
signing a statement containing your key is possible, although
RIPEM doesn't have features for doing this as automatically as
PGP.  RIPEM does generate and check MD5 fingerprints of public keys
in the key files; they may be exchanged via a separate channel for
authentication.
PLAYBACK ATTACKS
----------------
- Even if an opponent cannot break the cryptography, an opponent could
still cause difficulties.  For example, suppose you send a message
with MIC-ONLY (a PEM mode which does not provide disclosure protection)
to Alice which says "OK, let's do that." Your opponent intercepts
it, and now resends it to Bob, who now has a message which is
authenticated as from you telling him to do that.  Of course, he may
interpret it in an entirely different context.  Or your opponent
could transmit the same message to the same recipient much later,
figuring it would be seen differently at a later time.  Or the
opponent could change the Originator-Name: to himself, register
your public key as his, and send a message hoping the recipient
will send him return mail indicating (perhaps even quoting!) the
unknown message.
To defeat playback attacks, the plaintext of each message should
include some indication of the sender and recipient, and a unique
identifier (typically the date).  A good front-end script for RIPEM
should do this automatically (IMHO).  As a recipient, you should be
sure that the Originator-Name: header and the sender indicated within
the plaintext are the same, that you really are a recipient, and that
the message is not an old one.  Some this also can and should be
automated.  The author of this FAQ has made a modest attempt at
automating the process of generating and checking encapsulated
headers; the programs are included in the standard distribution in
the utils directory.
LOCAL ATTACKS
-------------
- Clearly, the security of RIPEM cannot be greater than the security of
the machine where the encryption is performed.  For example, under
UNIX, a super-user could manage to get at your encrypted mail,
although it would take some planning and effort to do something like
replace the RIPEM executable with a Trojan horse or to get a copy of
the plaintext, depending how it's stored.
In addition, the link between you and the machine running RIPEM is
an extension of that.  If you decrypt with RIPEM on a remote machine
which you are connected to via network (or, worse yet, modem), an
eavesdropper could see the plaintext (and probably also your
passphrase.)
RIPEM should only be executed on systems you trust, obviously.  In
the extreme case, RIPEM should only be used on your own machine,
which you have total control over and which nobody else has access
to, which has only carefully examined software known to be free of
viruses, and so on.  However, there's a very real trade-off between
convenience and security here.
A more moderately cautious user might use RIPEM on a UNIX workstation
where other people have access (even root access), but increase
security by keeping private keys and the (statically linked, of
course) executable on a floppy disk.
Some people will keep RIPEM on a multi-user system, but when dialing
in over an insecure line, they will download the message to their
own system and perform the RIPEM decryption there.  However, the
security provided by such a mechanism is somewhat illusory; since
you presumably type your cleartext password to log in, you've just
given away the store, since the attacker can now log in as you and
install traps in your account to steal your private key next time
you use it from a less insecure line.  This will likely remain the
situation as long as most systems use the rather quaint mechanism of
cleartext password authentication.
I find it nice to put a brief statement of how carefully I manage my
security arrangement in my .plan next to my public key, so that
potential correspondents can be aware what level of precautions are
in place.  Some people use two keys, a short one which is not
carefully managed for ordinary use and a longer one which is treated
with greater care for critical correspondence.
UNTRUSTED PARTNER ATTACKS
-------------------------
- RIPEM's encryption will ensure that only a person with the private key
corresponding to the public key used to encrypt the data may read the
traffic.  However, once someone with that key gets the message, she
may always make whatever kind of transformations she wishes.  There
exist no cryptographic barriers to a recipient, say, taking an
ENCRYPTED message and converting it to a MIC-ONLY message, signed by
you and readable by anyone, although RIPEM does not provide this
functionality.  Indeed, the latest PEM draft I have seen specifically
states that such transformations should be possible to allow
forwarding functions to work.
Including the recipients in the plaintext, as mentioned above, will
make it possible for recipients of a redistributed message to be aware
of its original nature.  Naturally, the security of the cryptography
can never be greater than the security of the people using it.
From: Jim-Miller@suite.com
Subject: Certifying Authority question answered.
Organization: Suite Software
Lines: 12
Reply-To: Jim-Miller@suite.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: nimrod.suite.com
>>If you have access to FTP, try FTPing to rsa.com, login as anonymous.
>>There are several documents there, including a "frequently asked questions
>>about today's cryptography" document.  It has FAQ in its name.
>>I believe this document explains the idea behind the certifying authorities.
>>
>>Good luck
>>
>>--John Kelsey, c445585@mizzou1.missouri.edu
Thanks.  I've ftp'ed the FAQ file and it is just what I was looking for.
Jim-Miller@suite.com
From: C445585@mizzou1.missouri.edu (John Kelsey)
Subject: "Rubber-hose cryptanalysis"
Nntp-Posting-Host: mizzou1.missouri.edu
Organization: University of Missouri
Lines: 7
Some sick part of me really liked that phrase....
Actually, merely the threat of a *long* prison sentence, even without
a beating, can get most people to give in.  Especially if it's also
punctuated with a trip to the county jail, where one just happens to get
locked up with all the drunk/stoned/crazy folks that are too violent to be
left in cells with other people....
From: grady@netcom.com (1016/2EF221)
Subject: Declassifying media
Organization: capriccioso
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Lines: 82
There are many Urban Legends (maybe this ought to be in the Crypt
FAQ?) about what is actually sufficient to clear or declassify
magnetic media when used for classified data.  Here is some
information "from the horse's mouth".
(Regarding the sufficient overwriting of media ("clearing") meant to
be *retained* within the controlled environment, or declassifying
the material to be reused *outside* the controlled environment,)
From National Telecommunications and Information Systems
Security (NTISS) "Advisory Memorandum on Office Automation
Security Guidelines"  (NTISSAM COMPUSEC/1/87):
------
"7.6.2.1 Clearing of Magnetic Media
Certain types of removable media (e.g., magnetic tape, floppy disk,
cassettes, and magnetic cards) may be cleared by overwriting the
entire media one time with any one character.  Floppy disks may be
cleared by applying a vendor's formatting program that overwrites
each location with a given character.
Fixed media (e.g., Winchester disks) should be cleared by overwriting
at least one time with any one character.  One way to do this is by
applying a vendor-supplied formatting program that overwrites each
location on the disk with a given character, if it can be shown that
this program actually works as advertised.  The user should beware:
some programs that purport to overwrite all locations do not
actually do this.
Cleared media may be resides within the controlled facility or
released for destruction; however, they should be marked and
controlled at the level of the most restrictive sensitivity of
information ever recorded.
7.6.2.2 Declassification of Magnetic Media
Certain types of removable media can be declassified using a
degaussing device that has been approved for declassifying media of
that type.  (A list of approved devices is maintained by the NSA.)
If a fixed medium (for example, a hard, or Winchester, disk) is
operative, an approved method of declassifying the disk pack is to
employ an overwrite procedure which must overwrite all
addressable locations at least three times by writing any character,
then its complement (e.g., binary ones and binary zeros)
alternatively.
When fixed  media become inoperative, it is impossible to declassify
the media by the overwrite method.  In this case, there are two
alternate procedures that may be used: (1) disassemble the disk
pack, and degauss each platter with the appropriate approved
degaussing equipment; and (2) courier the inoperative media to the
vendor's facility, have the magnetic media (e.g., disk platter)
removed in sight of the courier and returned to the courier for
destruction at the secure site.  The vendor can then install new
platters and repair any other problems with the disk unit.
7.6.3 Destruction of Magnetic Media"
[see DoD Computer Security Center, "Department of Defense Magnetic
Remanence Security Guideline", CSC-STD-003-85  FOR OFFICIAL USE
ONLY]
------
This and many other interesting documents (many that are more
informative than probably intended) on computer security procedures
can be obtained (free) from:
Executive Secretary
National Telecommunications and Informations
Systems Security Committee
National Security Agency
Fort George G. Meade, MD  20755-6000
Write them!  It's fun to be on the NSA's mailing list...
--
grady@netcom.com  2EF221 / 15 E2 AD D3 D1 C6 F3 FC  58 AC F7 3D 4F 01 1E 2F
From: gtoal@gtoal.com (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Hard drive security for FBI targets
Lines: 18
From: res@colnet.cmhnet.org (Rob Stampfli)
>separate locations to gain credibility. If they are seized and you are
>compelled to decrypt it, you simply explain that you are an amateur
>cryptologist playing around with one time pads, and that the first
>file is the pad for the second. They XOR the two files, and sure
>enough, out pops a copy of "War and Peace".
So, judging from recent history, at this point they drop the original
charges, preemptively find you guilty of copyright violations, and seize
your computer, your home, and your financial reserves under federal
forfeiture laws.
Ah no - what *really* happens is that they turn up at the court with
*another* file which when exored with your document gives up the famous
E911 document :-)  [And I tell you, some judges would fall for it...]
G
From: warlord@MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins)
Subject: Re: disk safety measure?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 33
<1pq0re$gc2@network.ucsd.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: steve-dallas.mit.edu
In-reply-to: loki@sdphu3.ucsd.edu's message of 5 Apr 93 19:21:18 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article <1pq0re$gc2@network.ucsd.edu> loki@sdphu3.ucsd.edu (Lance M Cottrell) writes:
BTW I have not been able to get pgp to produce a signature
that I can attatch to the end of this message.  What is
the procedure?  Thanks.
try:
pgp -sat +clearsig=on
This will do the clearsig signing...
Enjoy!
- -derek
PGP 2 key available upon request on the key-server:
pgp-public-keys@toxicwaste.mit.edu
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.2
iQBuAgUBK8DNazh0K1zBsGrxAQFoZQLEC/XKXMoDhCPf/AZ3aOQSLfz+6w400UDk
Ng6prxnPuEuSZQEiiusMCVcRcGnWbaVrxFjA1o4yubh01Czcg3ZC9wLJolXlxJn7
iSJh/eTZxmJnNynJxlGs0Ao=
=4eZb
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Derek Atkins, MIT '93, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Secretary, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB)
MIT Media Laboratory, Speech Research Group
warlord@MIT.EDU       PP-ASEL        N1NWH
From: neuhaus@bloch.informatik.uni-kl.de (Stephan Neuhaus (HiWi Mattern))
Subject: Re: PGP 2.2: general comments
Nntp-Posting-Host: bloch.informatik.uni-kl.de
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany
Lines: 39
neuhaus@vier.informatik.uni-kl.de (Stephan Neuhaus (HiWi Mattern)) writes:
>[Lots of stuff.]
I hate to follow up to my own posting, but I should perhaps clarify
some things so I won't get flamed.
First of all, when I'm talking about ``factoring the modulus'' or a
``breakthrough in factoring'', what I really mean is a breakthrough in
the cryptanalysis of RSA.  I know that factoring and breaking RSA are
not proven to be equivalent; it's just so damn convenient not to
repeat this every time.
I also have to admit that I don't really know if the ``non-group''
property of a cipher is essential only for key chaining.  I have
thought about it a little while, but I can't find a way that a
cryptanalyst could exploit a group structure.  That, of course, means
nothing at all.
Then I wrote,
>Please note that as long as it is much harder to factor a RSA modulus
>than it is to generate it, the increase in computer speed alone will
>keep key lengths and modulus factoring in lock-step, i.e., people will
>simply start using longer moduli and still be safe.
What I meant was that as long as the only advantage of the
cryptanalyst is a faster computer, then we will probably have RSA for
a long time to come, because even if 1024-bit moduli somehow could be
broken with fast computers (not with a new algorithm), then people
would simply use longer moduli.  Both users and cryptanalysts benefit
from better technology in the same way.
Hope this keeps the flames away...  Have fun.
--
Stephan <neuhaus@informatik.uni-kl.de>
sig closed for inventory.  Please leave your pickaxe outside.
PGP 2.2 public key available on request.  Note the expiration date.
From: WHMurray@DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL
Subject: Licensing.....
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Lines: 49
>This thread brings up the more general question.  Can any crypto
>implementation for which highly publicly scrutinized source code is not
>available EVER be trusted?
After IBM had invented the DES and the NBS had advertised for proposals,
but before IBM had decided to respond, I argued strenuously that they
should not; they should keep it proprietary.
The biggest proponent of proposing was Dr. Lewis Branscomb.  Dr. Branscomb
was the IBM Chief Scientist and had come to IBM from NBS.  Fortunately
for all of us, Dr. Branscomb understood the answer to the above question
much better than I.  He realized how difficult it would be to gain
acceptance for any cryptographic mechanism.  Because of the necessary
complexity, publicity would not be sufficient and neither would
authority.  In fact, it has taken both of those plus more than 15
years.
We have also had independence.  The DES was solicited by NBS, invented
and proposed by IBM, and vetted by NBS.  It has also been examined and
vetted by experts like Adi Shamir, who are not subject to influence by
any of these.
Even now, there are still people posting on this list who do not trust
the DES in spite of all the time, all of the analysis, and all of the
public scrutiny.
(Of course, it is just this point that NIST misses when it attempts to
gain acceptance for a novel mechanism, developed in secret, on the basis
of authority alone.)
We had a long thread here about whether or not the NSA can "break" the
DES.  That is a silly question.  At some cost and in some time they
can "break" anything.  The important question is at what cost and in
what time.
The fundamental strength of the DES and RSA are not nearly so important
as what we know about their strength.  As long as we understand the
cost and duration for an attacker, then we can use them in a safe way.
At this point, we may never replace either because of the inability of
any successor to overcome this knowledge gap.
DES and RSA are among the most significant inventions of the century
and the most important inventions in the history of cryptography.
We are damned lucky to have them.
William Hugh Murray, Executive Consultant, Information System Security
49 Locust Avenue, Suite 104; New Canaan, Connecticut 06840
1-0-ATT-0-700-WMURRAY; WHMurray at DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL
From: ho@cs.arizona.edu (Hilarie Orman)
Subject: Re: Licensing of public key implementations
Organization: U of Arizona, CS Dept, Tucson
Lines: 6
With regard to your speculations on NSA involvement in the creation of
PKP, I find that it fails the test of Occam's butcher knife.  Never
attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by forthright greed.
Hilarie Orman
From: ken@sugra.uucp (Kenneth Ng)
Subject: Re: Identifying / Securing Files
Organization: Private Computer, Totowa, NJ
Lines: 23
In article <2bb29f4c@mash.boulder.co.us: rmashlan%mash@csn.org (Robert Mashlan) writes:
:tarnold@vnet.IBM.COM (Todd W. Arnold) said in article <19930322.101356.617@almaden.ibm.com>:
:>It's OK as long as you trust the end-user to stay out of your application
:>program - or as long as it runs in a system where the user can't get to it.
:>Otherwise, you can't stop him from finding the "load a module" code in your
:>program, and simply bypassing the check for a valid module.  The devious user
:>can either modify the object code before running the program, or he can run
:>the program under a debugger and change the instructions in memory.
:There is a way to foil debuggers, by clearing the single step
:interrupt, on which a debugger depends, every few instructions in
:the sensitive areas of the code.
This assumes the person is using the hardware debug instruction of an X86
type processor.  It can be negated by NOP'ing the clear debug instruction,
or by running the code on a machine simulator, like one I wrote as a senior
project in college.  It can bypass and trace practically anything one could
write in software.  Kind of like being on a Star Trek Holideck :-).
--
Kenneth Ng
Please reply to ken@eies2.njit.edu for now.
"All this might be an elaborate simulation running in a little device sitting
on someone's table" -- J.L. Picard: ST:TNG
From: ninassup@athena.mit.edu (Nikos I Nassuphis)
Subject: LGA ncrypt source
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 1135
NNTP-Posting-Host: w20-575-104.mit.edu
I got a number of requests for code.
So, here it is.
Its written in 80x86 ASM.
Borland TASM will do.
TASM LGA.ASM
TLINK /t LGA.ASM
The code:
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
; LGA ncryption
; (C) by Nick Nassuphis
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
CODE	SEGMENT
ASSUME	CS:CODE, DS:CODE
ORG	100h
Start:
JMP	Begin
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
;
; Gas particle assigment:
;
; BIT 0    particle moving EAST
; BIT 1    particle moving WEST
; BIT 2    particle moving NORTH
; BIT 3    particle moving SOUTH
;
; BIT 4    particle moving EAST
; BIT 5    particle moving WEST
; BIT 6    particle moving NORTH
; BIT 7    particle moving SOUTH
;
;
; Collisiong Rules:
;
; 1. Gas Rules
;
; IF (E & W) AND !(N & S) THEN (E,W)->(N,S)
; IF (N & S) AND !(E & W) THEN (N,S)->(E,W)
;
; for nibbles:
;
; 1100 -> 0011
; 0011 -> 0011
;
; and for bytes:
;
; 11000000 -> 00110000
; 00110000 -> 11000000
; 00001100 -> 00000011
; 00000011 -> 00001100
; 00110011 -> 11001100
; 00111100 -> 11000011
; 11000011 -> 00111100
; 11001100 -> 00110011
;
;
; 2. Reflection Rules
;
; just swap bits along directions
;
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
;
; This look-up table implements two particle collisions
; for the HPP lattice gas
;
HPPRule:
DB   00000000B   ;00000000
DB   00000001B   ;00000001
DB   00000010B   ;00000010
DB   00001100B   ;00000011
DB   00000100B   ;00000100
DB   00000101B   ;00000101
DB   00000110B   ;00000110
DB   00000111B   ;00000111
DB   00001000B   ;00001000
DB   00001001B   ;00001001
DB   00001010B   ;00001010
DB   00001011B   ;00001011
DB   00000011B   ;00001100
DB   00001101B   ;00001101
DB   00001110B   ;00001110
DB   00001111B   ;00001111
DB   00010000B   ;00010000
DB   00010001B   ;00010001
DB   00010010B   ;00010010
DB   00011100B   ;00010011
DB   00010100B   ;00010100
DB   00010101B   ;00010101
DB   00010110B   ;00010110
DB   00010111B   ;00010111
DB   00011000B   ;00011000
DB   00011001B   ;00011001
DB   00011010B   ;00011010
DB   00011011B   ;00011011
DB   00010011B   ;00011100
DB   00011101B   ;00011101
DB   00011110B   ;00011110
DB   00011111B   ;00011111
DB   00100000B   ;00100000
DB   00100001B   ;00100001
DB   00100010B   ;00100010
DB   00101100B   ;00100011
DB   00100100B   ;00100100
DB   00100101B   ;00100101
DB   00100110B   ;00100110
DB   00100111B   ;00100111
DB   00101000B   ;00101000
DB   00101001B   ;00101001
DB   00101010B   ;00101010
DB   00101011B   ;00101011
DB   00100011B   ;00101100
DB   00101101B   ;00101101
DB   00101110B   ;00101110
DB   00101111B   ;00101111
DB   11000000B   ;00110000
DB   11000001B   ;00110001
DB   11000010B   ;00110010
DB   11001100B   ;00110011
DB   11000100B   ;00110100
DB   11000101B   ;00110101
DB   11000110B   ;00110110
DB   11000111B   ;00110111
DB   11001000B   ;00111000
DB   11001001B   ;00111001
DB   11001010B   ;00111010
DB   11001011B   ;00111011
DB   11000011B   ;00111100
DB   11001101B   ;00111101
DB   11001110B   ;00111110
DB   11001111B   ;00111111
DB   01000000B   ;01000000
DB   01000001B   ;01000001
DB   01000010B   ;01000010
DB   01001100B   ;01000011
DB   01000100B   ;01000100
DB   01000101B   ;01000101
DB   01000110B   ;01000110
DB   01000111B   ;01000111
DB   01001000B   ;01001000
DB   01001001B   ;01001001
DB   01001010B   ;01001010
DB   01001011B   ;01001011
DB   01000011B   ;01001100
DB   01001101B   ;01001101
DB   01001110B   ;01001110
DB   01001111B   ;01001111
DB   01010000B   ;01010000
DB   01010001B   ;01010001
DB   01010010B   ;01010010
DB   01011100B   ;01010011
DB   01010100B   ;01010100
DB   01010101B   ;01010101
DB   01010110B   ;01010110
DB   01010111B   ;01010111
DB   01011000B   ;01011000
DB   01011001B   ;01011001
DB   01011010B   ;01011010
DB   01011011B   ;01011011
DB   01010011B   ;01011100
DB   01011101B   ;01011101
DB   01011110B   ;01011110
DB   01011111B   ;01011111
DB   01100000B   ;01100000
DB   01100001B   ;01100001
DB   01100010B   ;01100010
DB   01101100B   ;01100011
DB   01100100B   ;01100100
DB   01100101B   ;01100101
DB   01100110B   ;01100110
DB   01100111B   ;01100111
DB   01101000B   ;01101000
DB   01101001B   ;01101001
DB   01101010B   ;01101010
DB   01101011B   ;01101011
DB   01100011B   ;01101100
DB   01101101B   ;01101101
DB   01101110B   ;01101110
DB   01101111B   ;01101111
DB   01110000B   ;01110000
DB   01110001B   ;01110001
DB   01110010B   ;01110010
DB   01111100B   ;01110011
DB   01110100B   ;01110100
DB   01110101B   ;01110101
DB   01110110B   ;01110110
DB   01110111B   ;01110111
DB   01111000B   ;01111000
DB   01111001B   ;01111001
DB   01111010B   ;01111010
DB   01111011B   ;01111011
DB   01110011B   ;01111100
DB   01111101B   ;01111101
DB   01111110B   ;01111110
DB   01111111B   ;01111111
DB   10000000B   ;10000000
DB   10000001B   ;10000001
DB   10000010B   ;10000010
DB   10001100B   ;10000011
DB   10000100B   ;10000100
DB   10000101B   ;10000101
DB   10000110B   ;10000110
DB   10000111B   ;10000111
DB   10001000B   ;10001000
DB   10001001B   ;10001001
DB   10001010B   ;10001010
DB   10001011B   ;10001011
DB   10000011B   ;10001100
DB   10001101B   ;10001101
DB   10001110B   ;10001110
DB   10001111B   ;10001111
DB   10010000B   ;10010000
DB   10010001B   ;10010001
DB   10010010B   ;10010010
DB   10011100B   ;10010011
DB   10010100B   ;10010100
DB   10010101B   ;10010101
DB   10010110B   ;10010110
DB   10010111B   ;10010111
DB   10011000B   ;10011000
DB   10011001B   ;10011001
DB   10011010B   ;10011010
DB   10011011B   ;10011011
DB   10010011B   ;10011100
DB   10011101B   ;10011101
DB   10011110B   ;10011110
DB   10011111B   ;10011111
DB   10100000B   ;10100000
DB   10100001B   ;10100001
DB   10100010B   ;10100010
DB   10101100B   ;10100011
DB   10100100B   ;10100100
DB   10100101B   ;10100101
DB   10100110B   ;10100110
DB   10100111B   ;10100111
DB   10101000B   ;10101000
DB   10101001B   ;10101001
DB   10101010B   ;10101010
DB   10101011B   ;10101011
DB   10100011B   ;10101100
DB   10101101B   ;10101101
DB   10101110B   ;10101110
DB   10101111B   ;10101111
DB   10110000B   ;10110000
DB   10110001B   ;10110001
DB   10110010B   ;10110010
DB   10111100B   ;10110011
DB   10110100B   ;10110100
DB   10110101B   ;10110101
DB   10110110B   ;10110110
DB   10110111B   ;10110111
DB   10111000B   ;10111000
DB   10111001B   ;10111001
DB   10111010B   ;10111010
DB   10111011B   ;10111011
DB   10110011B   ;10111100
DB   10111101B   ;10111101
DB   10111110B   ;10111110
DB   10111111B   ;10111111
DB   00110000B   ;11000000
DB   00110001B   ;11000001
DB   00110010B   ;11000010
DB   00111100B   ;11000011
DB   00110100B   ;11000100
DB   00110101B   ;11000101
DB   00110110B   ;11000110
DB   00110111B   ;11000111
DB   00111000B   ;11001000
DB   00111001B   ;11001001
DB   00111010B   ;11001010
DB   00111011B   ;11001011
DB   00110011B   ;11001100
DB   00111101B   ;11001101
DB   00111110B   ;11001110
DB   00111111B   ;11001111
DB   11010000B   ;11010000
DB   11010001B   ;11010001
DB   11010010B   ;11010010
DB   11011100B   ;11010011
DB   11010100B   ;11010100
DB   11010101B   ;11010101
DB   11010110B   ;11010110
DB   11010111B   ;11010111
DB   11011000B   ;11011000
DB   11011001B   ;11011001
DB   11011010B   ;11011010
DB   11011011B   ;11011011
DB   11010011B   ;11011100
DB   11011101B   ;11011101
DB   11011110B   ;11011110
DB   11011111B   ;11011111
DB   11100000B   ;11100000
DB   11100001B   ;11100001
DB   11100010B   ;11100010
DB   11101100B   ;11100011
DB   11100100B   ;11100100
DB   11100101B   ;11100101
DB   11100110B   ;11100110
DB   11100111B   ;11100111
DB   11101000B   ;11101000
DB   11101001B   ;11101001
DB   11101010B   ;11101010
DB   11101011B   ;11101011
DB   11100011B   ;11101100
DB   11101101B   ;11101101
DB   11101110B   ;11101110
DB   11101111B   ;11101111
DB   11110000B   ;11110000
DB   11110001B   ;11110001
DB   11110010B   ;11110010
DB   11111100B   ;11110011
DB   11110100B   ;11110100
DB   11110101B   ;11110101
DB   11110110B   ;11110110
DB   11110111B   ;11110111
DB   11111000B   ;11111000
DB   11111001B   ;11111001
DB   11111010B   ;11111010
DB   11111011B   ;11111011
DB   11110011B   ;11111100
DB   11111101B   ;11111101
DB   11111110B   ;11111110
DB   11111111B   ;11111111
;
; This rule implements the velocity-reversal needed to
; run the gas evolution in reverse. Its called a WallRule
; because its the same as is all particles hit a wall
; head on.
;
WallRule:
DB   00000000B   ;00000000
DB   00000010B   ;00000001
DB   00000001B   ;00000010
DB   00001100B   ;00000011
DB   00001000B   ;00000100
DB   00001010B   ;00000101
DB   00001001B   ;00000110
DB   00001011B   ;00000111
DB   00000100B   ;00001000
DB   00000110B   ;00001001
DB   00000101B   ;00001010
DB   00000111B   ;00001011
DB   00000011B   ;00001100
DB   00001110B   ;00001101
DB   00001101B   ;00001110
DB   00001111B   ;00001111
DB   00100000B   ;00010000
DB   00100010B   ;00010001
DB   00100001B   ;00010010
DB   00101100B   ;00010011
DB   00101000B   ;00010100
DB   00101010B   ;00010101
DB   00101001B   ;00010110
DB   00101011B   ;00010111
DB   00100100B   ;00011000
DB   00100110B   ;00011001
DB   00100101B   ;00011010
DB   00100111B   ;00011011
DB   00100011B   ;00011100
DB   00101110B   ;00011101
DB   00101101B   ;00011110
DB   00101111B   ;00011111
DB   00010000B   ;00100000
DB   00010010B   ;00100001
DB   00010001B   ;00100010
DB   00011100B   ;00100011
DB   00011000B   ;00100100
DB   00011010B   ;00100101
DB   00011001B   ;00100110
DB   00011011B   ;00100111
DB   00010100B   ;00101000
DB   00010110B   ;00101001
DB   00010101B   ;00101010
DB   00010111B   ;00101011
DB   00010011B   ;00101100
DB   00011110B   ;00101101
DB   00011101B   ;00101110
DB   00011111B   ;00101111
DB   11000000B   ;00110000
DB   11000010B   ;00110001
DB   11000001B   ;00110010
DB   11001100B   ;00110011
DB   11001000B   ;00110100
DB   11001010B   ;00110101
DB   11001001B   ;00110110
DB   11001011B   ;00110111
DB   11000100B   ;00111000
DB   11000110B   ;00111001
DB   11000101B   ;00111010
DB   11000111B   ;00111011
DB   11000011B   ;00111100
DB   11001110B   ;00111101
DB   11001101B   ;00111110
DB   11001111B   ;00111111
DB   10000000B   ;01000000
DB   10000010B   ;01000001
DB   10000001B   ;01000010
DB   10001100B   ;01000011
DB   10001000B   ;01000100
DB   10001010B   ;01000101
DB   10001001B   ;01000110
DB   10001011B   ;01000111
DB   10000100B   ;01001000
DB   10000110B   ;01001001
DB   10000101B   ;01001010
DB   10000111B   ;01001011
DB   10000011B   ;01001100
DB   10001110B   ;01001101
DB   10001101B   ;01001110
DB   10001111B   ;01001111
DB   10100000B   ;01010000
DB   10100010B   ;01010001
DB   10100001B   ;01010010
DB   10101100B   ;01010011
DB   10101000B   ;01010100
DB   10101010B   ;01010101
DB   10101001B   ;01010110
DB   10101011B   ;01010111
DB   10100100B   ;01011000
DB   10100110B   ;01011001
DB   10100101B   ;01011010
DB   10100111B   ;01011011
DB   10100011B   ;01011100
DB   10101110B   ;01011101
DB   10101101B   ;01011110
DB   10101111B   ;01011111
DB   10010000B   ;01100000
DB   10010010B   ;01100001
DB   10010001B   ;01100010
DB   10011100B   ;01100011
DB   10011000B   ;01100100
DB   10011010B   ;01100101
DB   10011001B   ;01100110
DB   10011011B   ;01100111
DB   10010100B   ;01101000
DB   10010110B   ;01101001
DB   10010101B   ;01101010
DB   10010111B   ;01101011
DB   10010011B   ;01101100
DB   10011110B   ;01101101
DB   10011101B   ;01101110
DB   10011111B   ;01101111
DB   10110000B   ;01110000
DB   10110010B   ;01110001
DB   10110001B   ;01110010
DB   10111100B   ;01110011
DB   10111000B   ;01110100
DB   10111010B   ;01110101
DB   10111001B   ;01110110
DB   10111011B   ;01110111
DB   10110100B   ;01111000
DB   10110110B   ;01111001
DB   10110101B   ;01111010
DB   10110111B   ;01111011
DB   10110011B   ;01111100
DB   10111110B   ;01111101
DB   10111101B   ;01111110
DB   10111111B   ;01111111
DB   01000000B   ;10000000
DB   01000010B   ;10000001
DB   01000001B   ;10000010
DB   01001100B   ;10000011
DB   01001000B   ;10000100
DB   01001010B   ;10000101
DB   01001001B   ;10000110
DB   01001011B   ;10000111
DB   01000100B   ;10001000
DB   01000110B   ;10001001
DB   01000101B   ;10001010
DB   01000111B   ;10001011
DB   01000011B   ;10001100
DB   01001110B   ;10001101
DB   01001101B   ;10001110
DB   01001111B   ;10001111
DB   01100000B   ;10010000
DB   01100010B   ;10010001
DB   01100001B   ;10010010
DB   01101100B   ;10010011
DB   01101000B   ;10010100
DB   01101010B   ;10010101
DB   01101001B   ;10010110
DB   01101011B   ;10010111
DB   01100100B   ;10011000
DB   01100110B   ;10011001
DB   01100101B   ;10011010
DB   01100111B   ;10011011
DB   01100011B   ;10011100
DB   01101110B   ;10011101
DB   01101101B   ;10011110
DB   01101111B   ;10011111
DB   01010000B   ;10100000
DB   01010010B   ;10100001
DB   01010001B   ;10100010
DB   01011100B   ;10100011
DB   01011000B   ;10100100
DB   01011010B   ;10100101
DB   01011001B   ;10100110
DB   01011011B   ;10100111
DB   01010100B   ;10101000
DB   01010110B   ;10101001
DB   01010101B   ;10101010
DB   01010111B   ;10101011
DB   01010011B   ;10101100
DB   01011110B   ;10101101
DB   01011101B   ;10101110
DB   01011111B   ;10101111
DB   01110000B   ;10110000
DB   01110010B   ;10110001
DB   01110001B   ;10110010
DB   01111100B   ;10110011
DB   01111000B   ;10110100
DB   01111010B   ;10110101
DB   01111001B   ;10110110
DB   01111011B   ;10110111
DB   01110100B   ;10111000
DB   01110110B   ;10111001
DB   01110101B   ;10111010
DB   01110111B   ;10111011
DB   01110011B   ;10111100
DB   01111110B   ;10111101
DB   01111101B   ;10111110
DB   01111111B   ;10111111
DB   00110000B   ;11000000
DB   00110010B   ;11000001
DB   00110001B   ;11000010
DB   00111100B   ;11000011
DB   00111000B   ;11000100
DB   00111010B   ;11000101
DB   00111001B   ;11000110
DB   00111011B   ;11000111
DB   00110100B   ;11001000
DB   00110110B   ;11001001
DB   00110101B   ;11001010
DB   00110111B   ;11001011
DB   00110011B   ;11001100
DB   00111110B   ;11001101
DB   00111101B   ;11001110
DB   00111111B   ;11001111
DB   11100000B   ;11010000
DB   11100010B   ;11010001
DB   11100001B   ;11010010
DB   11101100B   ;11010011
DB   11101000B   ;11010100
DB   11101010B   ;11010101
DB   11101001B   ;11010110
DB   11101011B   ;11010111
DB   11100100B   ;11011000
DB   11100110B   ;11011001
DB   11100101B   ;11011010
DB   11100111B   ;11011011
DB   11100011B   ;11011100
DB   11101110B   ;11011101
DB   11101101B   ;11011110
DB   11101111B   ;11011111
DB   11010000B   ;11100000
DB   11010010B   ;11100001
DB   11010001B   ;11100010
DB   11011100B   ;11100011
DB   11011000B   ;11100100
DB   11011010B   ;11100101
DB   11011001B   ;11100110
DB   11011011B   ;11100111
DB   11010100B   ;11101000
DB   11010110B   ;11101001
DB   11010101B   ;11101010
DB   11010111B   ;11101011
DB   11010011B   ;11101100
DB   11011110B   ;11101101
DB   11011101B   ;11101110
DB   11011111B   ;11101111
DB   11110000B   ;11110000
DB   11110010B   ;11110001
DB   11110001B   ;11110010
DB   11111100B   ;11110011
DB   11111000B   ;11110100
DB   11111010B   ;11110101
DB   11111001B   ;11110110
DB   11111011B   ;11110111
DB   11110100B   ;11111000
DB   11110110B   ;11111001
DB   11110101B   ;11111010
DB   11110111B   ;11111011
DB   11110011B   ;11111100
DB   11111110B   ;11111101
DB   11111101B   ;11111110
DB   11111111B   ;11111111
MAXBYTE	EQU	55
LINENO	EQU	23
SrcPtr	DW	OFFSET Buffer1
DesPtr	DW	OFFSET Buffer2
SaveBuff:
DB	MAXBYTE*(LINENO+1) DUP(0)
Buffer1:
DB	MAXBYTE*(LINENO+1) DUP(0)
DB	256 DUP(0)
Buffer2:
DB	MAXBYTE*(LINENO+1) DUP(0)
DB	256 DUP(0)
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
;
;
;
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
Data:
DB	"                                                       "
DB	"                                                       "
DB	"                                                       "
DB	" This is a test for a Lattice Gas based encryption     "
DB	" algorithm. The data is encoded as particles of a      "
DB	" digital gas, whose time evolution is then simulated   "
DB	" with a cellular-automaton type algorithm. Decryption  "
DB	" can be achieved by running the simulation in reverse. "
DB	" A thermodynamic argument ensures that even if a single"
DB	" bit is flipped, no decryption of the data is possible "
DB	"                                                       "
DB	" After the gas is let to evolve for 256 timesteps,     "
DB	" one can either run the reverse evolution by pressing  "
DB	" space, or flip a bit and then run by pressing '0'     "
DB	"                                                       "
DB	" For a cryptographic application, the key would consist"
DB	" of the number of time steps and the time and location "
DB	" of specific bit inversions.                           "
DB	"                                                       "
DB	"                                                       "
DB	"                                                       "
DB	"                                                       "
DB	"                                                       "
;
; Fill the gas with a piece of code
;
InitGas:
MOV	DI,CS:SrcPtr
MOV	SI,OFFSET Data
MOV	CX,LINENO
IG0:
PUSH	DI
PUSH	CX
MOV	CX,MAXBYTE
IG1:
MOV	AL,CS:[SI]
MOV	CS:[DI],AL
INC	SI
INC	DI
LOOP	IG1
POP	CX
POP	DI
ADD	DI,MAXBYTE
LOOP	IG0
MOV	SI,CS:SrcPtr
MOV	DI,OFFSET InitGas
MOV	CX,MAXBYTE*3
MOV	AL,0
LG2:
MOV	BYTE PTR CS:[SI],AL
NOT	AL
INC	SI
LOOP	LG2
RET
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
;
; Display gas molecules bouncing around
;
ShowGas:
PUSH	ES
PUSH	SI
PUSH	DI
PUSH	CX
PUSH	BX
MOV	AX,0B800h
MOV	ES,AX
MOV	SI,CS:SrcPtr
MOV	DI,160*2+10*2
MOV	CX,LINENO-3
ADD	SI,MAXBYTE*3
SG1:
PUSH	CX
PUSH	DI
MOV	CX,MAXBYTE
SG2:
MOV	AL,CS:[SI]
MOV	BYTE PTR ES:[DI],AL
INC	SI
ADD	DI,2
DEC	CX
JNZ	SG2
POP	DI
POP	CX
ADD	DI,160
LOOP	SG1
POP	BX
POP	CX
POP	DI
POP	SI
POP	ES
RET
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
;
; CS:SI 	->	Sourse of Data
; CS:DI		->	Destination of Data
;
ScanOneMiddleLine:
;
; first byte is a special case because of warparound
;
MOV	BL,0			; AL is the "assembled" byte.
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE]	; NORTH is one line "up" (lower)
AND	BH,10001000B		; and at bits 7 and 3
OR	BL,BH			; OR them into the assembled byte
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE]	; SOUTH is one line "down" (higher)
AND	BH,01000100B		; and at bits 6 and 2
OR	BL,BH			; place the stuff into AL
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+(MAXBYTE-1)]	; WEST is one byte "left" (lower)
AND	BH,00100010B		; and at bits 5 and 1
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+1]		; EAST is one byte "right" (higher)
AND	BH,00010001B		; and at bits 4 and 0
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,0
MOV	AL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]
MOV	CS:[DI],AL
INC	SI
INC	DI
;
; middle bytes can be handled in a loop
;
MOV	CX,MAXBYTE-2
SOL1:
MOV	BL,0			; AL is the "assembled" byte.
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE]	; NORTH is one line "up" (lower)
AND	BH,10001000B		; and at bits 7 and 3
OR	BL,BH			; OR them into the assembled byte
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE]	; SOUTH is one line "down" (higher)
AND	BH,01000100B		; and at bits 6 and 2
OR	BL,BH			; place the stuff into AL
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-1]		; WEST is one byte "left" (lower)
AND	BH,00100010B		; and at bits 5 and 1
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+1]		; EAST is one byte "right" (higher)
AND	BH,00010001B		; and at bits 4 and 0
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,0
MOV	AL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]
MOV	CS:[DI],AL
INC	SI
INC	DI
LOOP	SOL1
;
; last byte is also special
;
MOV	BL,0			; AL is the "assembled" byte.
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE]	; NORTH is one line "up" (lower)
AND	BH,10001000B		; and at bits 7 and 3
OR	BL,BH			; OR them into the assembled byte
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE]	; SOUTH is one line "down" (higher)
AND	BH,01000100B		; and at bits 6 and 2
OR	BL,BH			; place the stuff into AL
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-1]		; WEST is one byte "left" (lower)
AND	BH,00100010B		; and at bits 5 and 1
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-(MAXBYTE-1)]	; EAST is one byte "right" (higher)
AND	BH,00010001B		; and at bits 4 and 0
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,0
MOV	AL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]
MOV	CS:[DI],AL
INC	SI
INC	DI
RET
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
;
; CS:SI 	->	Sourse of Data
; CS:DI		->	Destination of Data
;
ScanFirstLine:
;
; first byte is a special case because of warparound
;
MOV	BL,0
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE*(LINENO-1)]
AND	BH,10001000B		; and at bits 7 and 3
OR	BL,BH			; OR them into the assembled byte
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE]
AND	BH,01000100B		; and at bits 6 and 2
OR	BL,BH			; place the stuff into AL
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE-1]	; WEST is one byte "left" (lower)
AND	BH,00100010B		; and at bits 5 and 1
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+1]		; EAST is one byte "right" (higher)
AND	BH,00010001B		; and at bits 4 and 0
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,0
MOV	AL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]
MOV	CS:[DI],AL
INC	SI
INC	DI
;
; middle bytes can be handled in a loop
;
MOV	CX,MAXBYTE-2
SFL1:
MOV	BL,0			; AL is the "assembled" byte.
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE*(LINENO-1)]
AND	BH,10001000B		; and at bits 7 and 3
OR	BL,BH			; OR them into the assembled byte
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE]
AND	BH,01000100B		; and at bits 6 and 2
OR	BL,BH			; place the stuff into AL
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-1]		; WEST is one byte "left" (lower)
AND	BH,00100010B		; and at bits 5 and 1
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+1]		; EAST is one byte "right" (higher)
AND	BH,00010001B		; and at bits 4 and 0
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,0
MOV	AL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]
MOV	CS:[DI],AL
INC	SI
INC	DI
LOOP	SFL1
;
; last byte is also special
;
MOV	BL,0			; AL is the "assembled" byte.
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE*(LINENO-1)]
AND	BH,10001000B		; and at bits 7 and 3
OR	BL,BH			; OR them into the assembled byte
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+MAXBYTE]
AND	BH,01000100B		; and at bits 6 and 2
OR	BL,BH			; place the stuff into AL
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-1]		; WEST is one byte "left" (lower)
AND	BH,00100010B		; and at bits 5 and 1
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-(MAXBYTE-1)]	; EAST is one byte "right" (higher)
AND	BH,00010001B		; and at bits 4 and 0
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,0
MOV	AL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]
MOV	CS:[DI],AL
RET
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
;
; CS:SI 	->	Sourse of Data
; CS:DI		->	Destination of Data
;
ScanLastLine:
;
; first byte is a special case because of warparound
;
MOV	BL,0			; AL is the "assembled" byte.
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE]
AND	BH,10001000B		; and at bits 7 and 3
OR	BL,BH			; OR them into the assembled byte
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE*(LINENO-1)]
AND	BH,01000100B		; and at bits 6 and 2
OR	BL,BH			; place the stuff into AL
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+(MAXBYTE-1)]	; WEST is one byte "left" (lower)
AND	BH,00100010B		; and at bits 5 and 1
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+1]		; EAST is one byte "right" (higher)
AND	BH,00010001B		; and at bits 4 and 0
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,0
MOV	AL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]
MOV	CS:[DI],AL
INC	SI
INC	DI
;
; middle bytes can be handled in a loop
;
MOV	CX,MAXBYTE-2
SLL1:
MOV	BL,0			; AL is the "assembled" byte.
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE]
AND	BH,10001000B		; and at bits 7 and 3
OR	BL,BH			; OR them into the assembled byte
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE*(LINENO-1)]
AND	BH,01000100B		; and at bits 6 and 2
OR	BL,BH			; place the stuff into AL
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-1]		; WEST is one byte "left" (lower)
AND	BH,00100010B		; and at bits 5 and 1
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,CS:[SI+1]		; EAST is one byte "right" (higher)
AND	BH,00010001B		; and at bits 4 and 0
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,0
MOV	AL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]
MOV	CS:[DI],AL
INC	SI
INC	DI
LOOP	SLL1
;
; last byte is also special
;
MOV	BL,0			; AL is the "assembled" byte.
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE]
AND	BH,10001000B		; and at bits 7 and 3
OR	BL,BH			; OR them into the assembled byte
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-MAXBYTE*(LINENO-1)]
AND	BH,01000100B		; and at bits 6 and 2
OR	BL,BH			; place the stuff into AL
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-1]		; WEST is one byte "left" (lower)
AND	BH,00100010B		; and at bits 5 and 1
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,CS:[SI-(MAXBYTE-1)]	; EAST is one byte "right" (higher)
AND	BH,00010001B		; and at bits 4 and 0
OR	BL,BH
MOV	BH,0
MOV	AL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + OFFSET HPPRule]
MOV	CS:[DI],AL
INC	SI
INC	DI
RET
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
;
; Invert all velocities in the gas
;
InvertAll:
PUSH	BX
PUSH	CX
PUSH	SI
MOV	SI,CS:SrcPtr
MOV	BX,0
MOV	CX,LINENO
IA1:
PUSH	CX
MOV	CX,MAXBYTE
IA2:
MOV	BL,CS:[SI]
MOV	AL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX + (OFFSET WallRule)]
MOV	CS:[SI],AL
INC	SI
LOOP	IA2
POP	CX
LOOP	IA1
POP	SI
POP	CX
POP	BX
RET
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
;
;
IterateOnce:
MOV	SI,CS:SrcPtr
MOV	DI,CS:DesPtr
MOV	CS:SrcPtr,DI
MOV	CS:DesPtr,SI
PUSH	SI
PUSH	DI
CALL	ScanFirstLine
POP	DI
POP	SI
ADD	SI,MAXBYTE
ADD	DI,MAXBYTE
MOV	CX,LINENO-2		; dont scan first and last
L1:
PUSH	SI
PUSH	DI
PUSH	CX
CALL	ScanOneMiddleLine
POP	CX
POP	DI
POP	SI
ADD	SI,MAXBYTE
ADD	DI,MAXBYTE
LOOP	L1
PUSH	SI
PUSH	DI
CALL	ScanLastLine
POP	SI
POP	DI
L3:
RET
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
;
; Iterate HPP rule CX times
;
Iterate:
PUSH	CX
CALL	IterateOnce
POP	CX
CALL	ShowGas
LOOP	Iterate
RET
;----------------------------------------------------------------------
;
; Iterate HPP rule CX times
;
IterateUntil:
MOV	SI,0
MOV	CX,OFFSET IU4 - OFFSET IU3
IU00:
MOV	AL,BYTE PTR CS:[SI + OFFSET IU3]
XOR	BYTE PTR CS:[SI + OFFSET IU4],AL
INC	SI
LOOP	IU00
IU0:
CALL	IterateOnce
CALL	ShowGas
MOV	SI,CS:SrcPtr
MOV	CX,MAXBYTE*3
MOV	BX,0
MOV	AH,0
MOV	AL,255
IU1:
MOV	BL,BYTE PTR CS:[SI]
MOV	DL,BYTE PTR CS:[BX+WallRule]
NOT	AH
XOR	DL,AH
AND	AL,DL
INC	SI
LOOP	IU1
MOV	SI,0
MOV	CX,OFFSET IU4 - OFFSET IU3
IU2:
MOV	AH,BYTE PTR CS:[SI+OFFSET IU4]
AND	AH,AL
XOR	BYTE PTR CS:[SI+OFFSET IU3],AH
INC	SI
LOOP	IU2
JMP	IU3
IU3:
MOV	AX,OFFSET IU0
PUSH	AX
RET
DB	256 DUP(90h)
IU4:
PUSH	AX
PUSH	BX
PUSH	CX
PUSH	DX
PUSH	DS
MOV	AH,9
MOV	DX,CS:MsgPtr
INT	21H
POP	DS
POP	DX
POP	CX
POP	BX
POP	AX
RET
DB	512 DUP(90h)
MsgPtr	DW	OFFSET Msg
Msg	DB	"This message is printed out by",10,13
DB	"code decrypted using data from the lattice",10,13
DB	"which was applied to the decoding routine",10,13
DB	"after every time step",10,13
DB	"The decoding function left the code unchanged",10,13
DB	"except after the gas evolution had completelly",10,13
DB	"reversed the thermalization",10,13,"$"
TIMES	EQU	16		; 256 repetitions are enough to
; "equilibrate" the gas
Begin:
MOV	AX,0600h
MOV	BH,7
MOV	DH,25
MOV	DL,80
MOV	CX,0
INT	10h
MOV	AH,2
MOV	BH,0
MOV	DH,24
MOV	DL,0
INT	10h
CALL	InitGas
CALL	ShowGas
MOV	AH,0
INT	16h
PUSH	CX
MOV	CX,TIMES
CALL	Iterate
CALL	InvertAll
CALL	ShowGas
MOV	AH,0
INT	16h
CMP	AL,"0"
JNE	Begin0
MOV	SI,CS:SrcPtr
XOR	BYTE PTR CS:[SI],10000001B
Begin0:
MOV	CX,TIMES
CALL	IterateUntil
CALL	InvertAll
CALL	ShowGas
MOV	AX,4C00h
INT	21h
CODE	ENDS
END	Start
Subject: Re: Illegal Wiretaps (was Denning's Trust)
From: kubo@zariski.harvard.edu (Tal Kubo)
Distribution: inet
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.
Nntp-Posting-Host: zariski.harvard.edu
Lines: 33
In article <1ppg02$i2k@bigboote.WPI.EDU>
ear@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Mr. Neat-O [tm]) writes:
>>
>>It is apparently quite easy to get hold of a person's calling records
>>through the phone company.  Police (and some lawyers) are able to acquire
>>such information without any warrant or judicial supervision, whether or
>>not the target is suspected of specific crimes.
>
>Pardon me, but isn't this very illegal?  I was under the impression that a
>warrent *is* needed to get this information out of the phone company in
>order to protect people's privacy.
Legal or not, I've seen it done.  Phone records were obtained
in order to *establish* probable cause, rather than as a result of it.
In other words, for a fishing expedition.
>                                   A local (Worcester, MA) police officer I
>spoke with only a couple of nights ago told me that they usually only
>subpeona the phone companies records in *extreme* conditions because it's so
>much of a hassle.
And does the phone company require written, subpoena-able evidence
of probable cause in order to process the request?  I suggest that
the officer was disinterested in pursuing your case -- even if you
could prove the offender had called you at a certain time, your
chances of winning a harassment suit on the strength of this evidence
are nil.  My contact with several people who have dealt with cases
of extreme phone harassment (several thousand calls in one case) teaches
me that police in this area are quite lethargic about pursuing such matters.
Tal
From: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Vesselin Bontchev)
Subject: Re: Licensing of public key implementations
Reply-To: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de
Organization: Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg
Lines: 23
strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
> I will provide one hint: it is reported that RSA expressed puzzlement (at
> their conference) that nobody has asked for permission to use RIPEM to
> write a PGP-compatible program.
This actually supports Bill's speculation - IF there is a backdoor in
RSAREF and IF PKP is supported secretly by the NSA, then it is more
than natural that they will welcome ANY public-key implementation that
uses RSAREF and will strongly oppose themselves against ANY
implementation that doesn't.
I personally cannot see how one could put a backdoor in a
long-precision modular arithmetic library that comes in source, but,
of course, the fact that -I- cannot see it means nothing...
Regards,
Vesselin
--
Vesselin Vladimirov Bontchev          Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg
Tel.:+49-40-54715-224, Fax: +49-40-54715-226      Fachbereich Informatik - AGN
< PGP 2.2 public key available on request. > Vogt-Koelln-Strasse 30, rm. 107 C
e-mail: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de    D-2000 Hamburg 54, Germany
From: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Vesselin Bontchev)
Subject: Re: opinions of RC2 alg.
Reply-To: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de
Organization: Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg
Lines: 18
Markowitz@DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL writes:
> It is interesting to note in this regard that permission to export
> PKZIP's encryption scheme has twice been denied by NSA.  Draw you own
> conclusions.
Uh, I'm afraid that your information is slightly out of date... PKWare
has obtained a license to export their program to the whole world,
except a very limited list of countries... Draw your own conclusions
about the strength of the algorithm... :-)
Regards,
Vesselin
--
Vesselin Vladimirov Bontchev          Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg
Tel.:+49-40-54715-224, Fax: +49-40-54715-226      Fachbereich Informatik - AGN
< PGP 2.2 public key available on request. > Vogt-Koelln-Strasse 30, rm. 107 C
e-mail: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de    D-2000 Hamburg 54, Germany
From: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Vesselin Bontchev)
Subject: Re: disk safety measure?
Reply-To: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de
Organization: Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg
Lines: 23
cuffell@spot.Colorado.EDU (Tim Cuffel) writes:
> There is no guarantee that the deleted space would be overwritten during
> optimization.  Likely, but no guarantee.  A quicker and more secure method
> would be a batch file that overwrote all of your free space.  For example
> fill.bat:
> 	echo %1 >> out
> 	fill.bat
> (This is off the top of my head.  #include <std_disclaimer.h>)
It is MUCH easier, faster, and probably even more secure to use Norton
Utilties 6.0 (I'm talking IBM PC here) and to tell WipeInfo to (a)
clean the free disk space and (b) clean the slack space at the end of
the files. Use to Government standard option for more careful
overwriting...
Regards,
Vesselin
--
Vesselin Vladimirov Bontchev          Virus Test Center, University of Hamburg
Tel.:+49-40-54715-224, Fax: +49-40-54715-226      Fachbereich Informatik - AGN
< PGP 2.2 public key available on request. > Vogt-Koelln-Strasse 30, rm. 107 C
e-mail: bontchev@fbihh.informatik.uni-hamburg.de    D-2000 Hamburg 54, Germany
From: WHMurray@DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL
Subject: Licensing...
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Lines: 24
>This actually supports Bill's speculation - IF there is a backdoor in
>RSAREF and IF PKP is supported secretly by the NSA, then it is more
>than natural that they will welcome ANY public-key implementation that
>uses RSAREF and will strongly oppose themselves against ANY
>implementation that doesn't.
My speculation does not include or depend upon a trapdoor in RSAREF. I
do not believe that RSA would consent to such.
However, there are other limitation in the concept of RSAREF in which
NSA has an interest.  It has an interest in a limited number of
implementations, i.e., targets.  It has an interest in fixed key or
maximum modulus size.
It has a legitimate (literally) right to pursue such interests.  Within
bounds, it probably has a right to pursue those interests by covert
means.  At least it has the same right as the rest of us not to disclose
all of its motives and intentions.  (Institutions are not self-aware;
they do not know their intentions in any meaningful sense.)
William Hugh Murray, Executive Consultant, Information System Security
49 Locust Avenue, Suite 104; New Canaan, Connecticut 06840
1-0-ATT-0-700-WMURRAY; WHMurray at DOCKMASTER.NCSC.MIL
From: tom_van_vleck@taligent.com (Tom Van Vleck)
Subject: Re: looking for one-way (trap-door, password encryption, etc.) algorithms
Organization: -
Distribution: usa
Lines: 21
Michael Levin wrote:
>      I am looking for references to algorithms which can be used for
> password encryption. I.e., someone has a clear-text word, runs it
> through the algorithm, and it becomes some other sequence of symbols.
> I want this algorithm to have the property that it is a) next to
> impossible to reverse, and b) would take too long to try all possible
> words to see which one works (even by use of a high-speed computer).
> Please send references or ideas to mlevin@husc8.harvard.edu.
The original one-way encryption I put into Multics about 1968 (as suggested
by Joe Weizenbaum) was invertible.  An Air Force tiger team demonstrated
this to me in May 1973.  I then asked an expert (who requested anonymity)
what I should use instead; the expert's suggestion was to treat the
8-byte password as both key and data for the LUCIFER encryption algorithm,
which is similar or identical to DES.  This method or something stronger
should take care of (a).  Issue (b) is discussed in comp.security.misc:
longer passwords and quality control on what users can choose as passwords
are the common tactics.
tom_vanvleck@taligent.com
From: yerazunis@cthulu.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: Hard drive security for FBI targets
Organization: Turing Police
Lines: 22
>cme@ellisun.sw.stratus.com (Carl Ellison) writes:
>For example, if I had a program on my disk which created totally random
>files looking like encrypted messages and could demonstrate that the file
>in question *could have been* created by that program, then my claim that
>it was, in fact, created by that program must stand as true (since I'm
>innocent) unless someone can prove me wrong.
HMMM... that brings up a neat idea.
Unfortunately, it's SOOO neat, I think I ought to patent it.
So I can't tell you about it.
Sorry.  :-)
-Bill
Copyright 1993 William S. Yerazunis (aka Crah the Merciless)
All rights reserved, no responsibility taken.
"I love the smell of flash powder in the morning! It smells like...like theatre"
From: jgk@osc.COM (Joe Keane)
Subject: Re: Hard drive security for FBI targets
Summary: Encrypted data looks random.
Keywords: entropy
Reply-To: Joe Keane <jgk@osc.com>
Organization: Versant Object Technology
Lines: 47
Weather: mostly cloudy, high 64, low 49
Moon-Phase: waxing gibbous (99% of full)
In article <1993Apr2.050451.7866@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> cuffell@spot.Colorado.EDU
(Tim Cuffel) writes:
>How about this.  I create a bunch of sets of random data, and encrypt it.  I
>keep only one of the sets of random data around, to show that I encypt random
>data for kicks.  The rest, I delete with their keys.  I tell all my friends.
>I think this establishes reasonable doubt about the contents of any encrypted
>files, and my ability to provides keys.  Since anyone could do this, any law
>that forces a user to provide keys on demand is worthless.
The law is much worse than worthless.  It gives police the power to put
innocent people in jail because they (the police) find something they don't
understand.  Most police don't know what the return key does, never mind the
difference between a core file and classified military secrets.
There are plenty of scenarios where the user would have no idea what something
is either.  It could be uninitialized junk.  The burden of proof is on the
user to show that it's something a normal upstanding citizen should have.  No
one should ever be put in that situation, especially in America.
What's disgusting about this is how easily most people go along with it, to
provide a bargaining chip against some hypothetical *alleged* child molester
or drug dealer, or whatever bad thing is in style at the time.  Basically most
people don't have a clear distinction between criminals and suspects.
As an analogy, it's like they find a loose screw in your house, and they
insist that you're building a bomb or machine gun.  They ask you where it came
from (like you'd know), and ask you to prove your claim.  When you explain it
in such simple terms, people may start to get the idea.
As a matter of fact, i do keep random files on my disk.  The reason is,
without special-purpose hardware, it takes a long time to generate good random
bits.  I have programs that crank out a couple bits per minute, which is
pretty conservative, but over time that's more than i need.
If you think about it, there's no point in actually encrypting random data,
because it just gives you different random data.  If you want some data to
look like an encrypted file, you just put an appropriate header on it.  If
enough people do this, some of them will be put in jail.
When you get arrested and the police ask for your keys, you can tell them it's
just random junk, although of course they won't believe you.  While you're
sitting in jail, you can take consolation in the fact that the government will
burn a few CPU-years trying to find something that's not there.
--
Joe Keane, amateur cryptologist
jgk@osc.com (uunet!amdcad!osc!jgk)
From: Graham Toal <gtoal@gtoal.com>
Subject: Re: Hard drive security for FBI targets
Originator: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk
Keywords: entropy
Nntp-Posting-Host: pizzabox.demon.co.uk
Reply-To: Graham Toal <gtoal@gtoal.com>
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Lines: 9
In article <6040@osc.COM> Joe Keane <jgk@osc.com> writes:
:As a matter of fact, i do keep random files on my disk.  The reason is,
:without special-purpose hardware, it takes a long time to generate good random
:bits.  I have programs that crank out a couple bits per minute, which is
:pretty conservative, but over time that's more than i need.
Sounds like a useful program - interested in posting it to alt.sources?
G
From: cme@ellisun.sw.stratus.com (Carl Ellison)
Subject: Re: Hard drive security
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
Lines: 18
NNTP-Posting-Host: ellisun.sw.stratus.com
Keywords: cooperation
In article <m5c5fkj@rpi.edu> antonh@rpi.edu writes:
>say, can anyone send my info on how to encrpyt a hard disk [...]
>ps.  I would also like know the consequences of those types of actions if i
>so chose to do them in the future in this country and european countries.
People have been encrypting notes in their notebooks for hundreds of years
-- maybe over a thousand.  It's a long tradition dating at least back to
the alchemists.
I know of nothing bad happening to them.  I would assume that nothing bad
would happen to you, given this long history establishing encryption as
the property of individuals, to do with as they please.
--
- <<Disclaimer: All opinions expressed are my own, of course.>>
- Carl Ellison                                        cme@sw.stratus.com
- Stratus Computer Inc.       M3-2-BKW                TEL: (508)460-2783
- 55 Fairbanks Boulevard ; Marlborough MA 01752-1298  FAX: (508)624-7488
From: cme@ellisun.sw.stratus.com (Carl Ellison)
Subject: Re: Licensing of public key implementations
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
Lines: 28
NNTP-Posting-Host: ellisun.sw.stratus.com
In article <1993Apr4.221640.8104@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jebright@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James R Ebright) writes:
>I guess we will have to wait for the time in the far future
>when everyone uses such good crypto that the NSA has no job.  Then the
>agency will be disbanded and its files opened after the approprate
>historical delay.  ;)
You've overlooked a fundamental Truth:
both headcount and budget of any government agency are
monotonic increasing functions.
Given that Truth, you need to look for what the agency can do to occupy
all those people and spend all that money when crypto is unbreakable.
Perhaps they could talk the world's telephone companies into making equipment
they could break into and tap.
Maybe they could convince people that distributed computing was a good idea
so that even the internal state of a process would be available for access
by wiretapping.
Maybe....
--
- <<Disclaimer: All opinions expressed are my own, of course.>>
- Carl Ellison                                        cme@sw.stratus.com
- Stratus Computer Inc.       M3-2-BKW                TEL: (508)460-2783
- 55 Fairbanks Boulevard ; Marlborough MA 01752-1298  FAX: (508)624-7488
From: ray@ole.cdac.com (Ray Berry)
Subject: Re: Hard drive security for FBI targets
Organization: Cascade Design Automation
Lines: 32
rja14@cl.cam.ac.uk (Ross Anderson) writes:
>In article <1993Apr2.050451.7866@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, cuffell@spot.Colorado.EDU
>(Tim Cuffel) writes:
>This suggests a new PC security product design approach - first fill the hard
>drive with 50% random files and 50% files encrypted under a number of known
>keys. Then whenever a new secret file is created, you delete a random file and
>replace it with real encrypted data. New non-secret files are encrypted under
>a known key.
Better yet, instead of thrashing around on the DOS file system, take
it a step further.  Write yourself a minimal "file system" program that
is used to create/delete files, en/decrypt them to ramdisk, list a
directory. Put the util, password protected, on a floppy.
The catch is that the storage space used by this util is NOT part
of the DOS file system.  Instead, defrag your disk, thus packing all
allocated clusters into clusters 0-n.  Then use the back end of the
partition to hold your 'stealth' file system.  Or, leave a small 2nd
partition on the disk that is not assigned to DOS.  Another approach
might be to use a directory that contains a set of invariant files (DOS
system files, for instance).  Due to DOS allocating a minimum storage
unit of a "cluster" there is unused physical space on the disk between
the tail end of each file and the end of its associated cluster. These
dead spaces could be concatenated and used to hold your stealth file
system.
Now you have a situation where no encrypted data "appears" on your
disk at all :-).
--
Ray Berry kb7ht ray@ole.cdac.com  rjberry@eskimo.com  73407.3152@compuserve.com
From: so@eiffel.cs.psu.edu (Nicol C So)
Subject: Re: Source of random bits on a Unix workstation
Nntp-Posting-Host: eiffel.cs.psu.edu
Organization: Penn State Computer Science
Lines: 19
In article <897@pivot.sbi.com> bet@sbi.com (Bennett Todd @ Salomon Brothers Inc., NY ) writes:
>This came up because I decided to configure up MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 security
>for X11R5. For this to work you need to stick some bits that an intruder
>can't guess in a file (readable only by you) which X client applications
>read. They pass the bits back to the server when they want to establish a
>connection.
>
>...
>What I settled on was grabbing a bunch of traffic off the network.
>Basically, I ran
>
>	etherfind -u -x greater 0|compress
>
>and skipped over 10K of output, then grabbed my bits. As best I can tell,
>these are bits that can be expected to be reasonably uniformly distributed,
>and quite unguessable by an intruder.
For your application, what you can do is to encrypt the real-time clock
value with a secret key.
From: ji@cs.columbia.edu (John Ioannidis)
Subject: Re: Source of random bits on a Unix workstation
Article-I.D.: cs.C5Jp0K.4p5
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Lines: 35
In article <C5JA6s.A59@cs.psu.edu> so@eiffel.cs.psu.edu (Nicol C So) writes:
>In article <897@pivot.sbi.com> bet@sbi.com (Bennett Todd @ Salomon Brothers Inc., NY ) writes:
>>This came up because I decided to configure up MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 security
>>for X11R5. For this to work you need to stick some bits that an intruder
>>can't guess in a file (readable only by you) which X client applications
>>read. They pass the bits back to the server when they want to establish a
>>connection.
>>
>>...
>>What I settled on was grabbing a bunch of traffic off the network.
>>Basically, I ran
>>
>>	etherfind -u -x greater 0|compress
>>
>>and skipped over 10K of output, then grabbed my bits. As best I can tell,
>>these are bits that can be expected to be reasonably uniformly distributed,
>>and quite unguessable by an intruder.
>
>For your application, what you can do is to encrypt the real-time clock
>value with a secret key.
For a good discussion of cryptographically "good" random number
generators, check out the draft-ietf-security-randomness-00.txt
Internet Draft, available at your local friendly internet drafts
repository.
A reasonably source of randomness is the output of a cryptographic
hash function (e.g., MD5), when fed with a large amount of
more-or-less random data. For example, running MD5 on /dev/mem is a
slow, but random enough, source of random bits; there are bound to be
128 bits of entropy in the tens (or hundreds) of megabytes of data in
a modern workstation's memory, as a fair amount of them are system
timers, i/o buffers, etc.
/ji
From: bear@kestrel.fsl.noaa.gov (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: Fifth Amendment and Passwords
Organization: Forecast Systems Labs, NOAA, Boulder, CO USA
Lines: 37
In article <1993Apr15.160415.8559@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> ashall@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Andrew S Hall) writes:
>I am postive someone will correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Fifth
>also cover not being forced to do actions that are self-incriminating?
>e.g. The police couldn't demand that you silently take them to where the
>body is buried or where the money is hidden.
But they can make you piss in a jar, and possibly provide DNA, semen,
and hair samples or to undergo tests for gunpowder residues on your hand.
(BTW, that was why the chemical engineer arrested in the WTC explosion
thrust his hands into a toilet filled with urine as the cops were breaking
down the door -- the nitrogen in the urine would mask any residue from
explosives.  I found it interesting the news reported his acts, but not
his reasons).
Somewhere, perhaps a privacy group, they discussed the legal ramifications
of using a password like
I shot Jimmy Hoffa and his body is in a storage locker in Camden
a while back.  The impression I got was that real judges would dismiss
arguments that this password is self-incrimination as first-year law
school sophistry -- the fact that you use a statement for a password has
no bearing on the veracity of that phrase.
You are not being asked to incrimidate yourself (e.g., "where did you
bury the body?"); you are being asked to provide information necessary
to execute a legal search warrant.  Refusing to provide the password is
akin to refusing to provide a key to a storage locker... except that they
could always _force_ their way into the locker.
Of course, that doesn't mean you have to help them _understand_ what
they find, or point out things they overlooked in their search!
--
Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
From: zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au (Paul Repacholi)
Subject: What is going on?...
Lines: 26
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Distribution: inet
In article <1qhc2p$8d8@transfer.stratus.com>, cme@ellisun.sw.stratus.com (Carl Ellison) writes:
> In article <1993Apr14.120229.15878@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> rwebb@nyx.cs.du.edu (Russell Webb) writes:
...
> Call me paranoid, but this is the same kind of scare story which Dorothy
> Denning was citing while calling for the limitation of cryptography.
>
> I doubt that DD is behind this --
>
> but I suspect that the FBI (and maybe NSA) are behind DD and those agencies
> could easily be mounting a nationwide campaign (with our tax dollars?) to
> build up public outcry against digital communication -- especially against
> unbreakable, encrypted communication.
>
>
> What's going on here??
>
Haven't you read any of Noam Chomsky's works? A widely used information net
outside the control of the 'right people' is unthinkable. Hundreds of billions
of dollars will be spent to wipe it out, sorry, 'regulate and order it' once
the major media and poitical powers wake up to the efect it can have.
If you can't be bothered reading, get the video "Manufacturing Consent".
~Paul
From: marc@tanda.isis.org (Marc Thibault)
Subject: Re: Hard drive security for FBI targets
Reply-To: marc@tanda.isis.org
Distribution: world
Organization: Thibault & Friends
Lines: 45
1. Do a straight encryption of your keyrings and put the
results with misleading names somewhere they won't be noticed
(eg. in the \windows directory; nobody knows what half those
files are).
2. Do a straight encryption of a .BAT file that will decrypt
the keyrings to RAMdisk and will set PGPPATH to point at it.
3. Set up another .BAT file to decrypt and execute the first
(again on RAM disk). Have it take the name of the target file
as an argument so that there is no link between this file and
the (non-existent) batch file referred to by the rest of the
system. Comment it so it looks like a test script for fooling
around with PGP. Set PGPPATH to the PGP directory.
4. Leave the original keyrings that came with PGP in the
directory with PGP; a good indication that you are playing
with, but haven't made serious use of PGP. Add a set of keys
with your name and a really simple passphrase. Never use it,
or use it as your widely published key for low-security
e-mail.
5. When needed, run the second .BAT file. Make sure all
intermediate and plainfiles are generated on RAMdisk.
6. When you hear the concussion grenade, hit the power switch.
Cheers,
Marc
---
Marc Thibault        | CIS:71441,2226     |  Put another log
marc@tanda.isis.org  | NC FreeNet: aa185  |  on the fire.
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Version: 2.0
mQBNAiqxYTkAAAECALfeHYp0yC80s1ScFvJSpj5eSCAO+hihtneFrrn+vuEcSavh
AAUwpIUGyV2N8n+lFTPnnLc42Ms+c8PJUPYKVI8ABRG0I01hcmMgVGhpYmF1bHQg
PG1hcmNAdGFuZGEuaXNpcy5vcmc+
=HLnv
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
From: grady@netcom.com (1016/2EF221)
Subject: SOURCE to Mactinosh PGP 2.2 in C available
Organization: capriccioso
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Lines: 84
*** SOURCE code to Macintosh PGP 2.2 now available via anonymous FTP ***
FTP netcom.com
CD pub/grady
MGET MacPGP2.2src.sea.hqx
MGET MacPGP2.2srcSIGNATURE
Convert to a Compact Pro self-extracting archive with BinHex 4.0.
If appropriate, check the digital signature of the .hqx file with
your copy of PGP.  (Non-Macintosh users wishing to check the digital
signature please note that 'CR' denotes the end-of-line on a Macintosh,
not 'LF' or 'CRLF'.)
For the purposes of the ITAR act, this 'unclassified technical
documentation' is hereby released into the public domain.  (However
no representation is made as to copyright or other commercial rights
that may exist in this package.)
Full source code, Symantec THINK C 5.0.4 projects and full user
documentation is included for both 68020 and 68000 versions of Pretty
Good Privacy, a strong public key encryption and digital signature
application using the RSA algorithm patented in the United States
and the IDEA cipher patented in Switzerland.
No executables are included.
Executables are available via anonymous FTP from:
leif.thep.lu.se (Sweden)
night.nig.ac.jp (Japan)
van-bc.wimsey.bc.ca (Canada)
soda.berkeley.edu (P.R. of Berkeley)
src.doc.ic.ac.uk (United Kingdom)
ghost.dsi.unimi.it (Italy)
plaza.aarnet.edu.au (Australia)
nic.funet.fi (Finland)
Other's public keys are available from anonymous server sites:
(Send message subject "help" for more information.)
Internet sites:
pgp-public-keys@junkbox.cc.iastate.edu
Michael Graff
explorer@iastate.edu
FTP: tbird.cc.iastate.edu:/usr/explorer/public-keys.pgp
pgp-public-keys@toxicwaste.mit.edu
Derek Atkins
warlord@MIT.EDU
FTP: toxicwaste.mit.edu:/pub/keys/public-keys.pgp
pgp-public-keys@phil.utmb.edu
John Perry
perry@phil.utmb.edu
FTP: phil.utmb.edu:/pub/pgp/public-keys.pgp
pgp-public-keys@demon.co.uk
Mark Turner
mark@demon.co.uk
FTP: ftp.demon.co.uk:/pub/pgp/pubring.pgp
UUCP site:
pgp-public-keys@jpunix.com
John Perry
perry@jpunix.com
The executable application built from these sources has NOT been
licensed by RSA Data Security, Inc. nor has the RSA public key
algorithm or the IDEA block cipher algorithm been approved by
the National Security Agency.
This unclassified technical documentation is made available for
EDUCATIONAL USE ONLY; possession, distribution, or use of an
executable binary built from this source may be a civil or criminal
offense.
Suggested improvements, bugs, or comments should be directly posted
to alt.security.pgp or to the principal developers listed among
the source documents.  General questions and comments about public
key cryptography or the IDEA cipher may be posted to alt.security.pgp
or to the sci.crypt Usenet groups.
--
grady@netcom.com  2EF221 / 15 E2 AD D3 D1 C6 F3 FC  58 AC F7 3D 4F 01 1E 2F
From: kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M Kadie)
Subject: Re: Fifth Amendment and Passwords
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Lines: 42
ashall@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Andrew S Hall) writes:
>I am postive someone will correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Fifth
>also cover not being forced to do actions that are self-incriminating?
[...]
[From Mike Godwin <mnemonic@eff.org>, posted with permission - Carl]
Sadly, it does not. Suspects can be compelled to give handwriting and
voice exemplars, and to take blood and DNA tests.
> e.g. The police couldn't demand that you silently take them to where the
> body is buried or where the money is hidden.
No, but they could compell you to produce the key to a safe where, as it
happens, evidence that will convict you is stored.
The crypto-key disclosure issue hasn't come up yet, but current law
suggests that it's a loser for the defendant--he'll be compelled to turn
over the key.
The test for compelled self-incrimination is whether the material to
be disclosed *in itself* tends to inculpate the discloser. In the example
I gave above, the safe key itself has no testimonial value--ergo, it can
be disclosed under compulsion (e.g., subpoena duces tecum).
Moreover, the government can always immunize the disclosure of a crypto
key--compelling you to disclose the key at the price of not using the fact
of your disclosure as evidence in the case against you. Of course, they
can use whatever they discover as a result of this disclosure against
you.
--Mike
--
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent any organization; this is just me.
= kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
From: bob@natasha.portal.com (Bob Cain)
Subject: Re: Pgp, PEM, and RFC's (Was: Cryptography Patents)
Organization: Oce Graphics USA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Lines: 41
Charles Kincy (ckincy@cs.umr.edu) wrote:
:
: All I have to say is...yeah, right.  If you're willing to pay them
: mucho big bucks and/or use the routines *they* tell you to do.
: Doesn't sound very reasonable to me.
All I have to say is this is full of shit.  I have negotiated a license
and the bucks are incredibly reasonable with an upfront charge on a
sliding scale depending on your capitalization.  If you are a startup
and can't afford it you can't afford to start up in the first place.
Why do people insist on making unequivocal statements about that which
they know nothing.
:
: But I don't guess PKP and RSA are interested in big bucks.  Maybe
: they have some other agenda?  Secure communications only for
: government agents, perhaps?
Have you considered treatment for paranoia?  The government is the
single biggest thorn in RSA's side.
:
: Some limitation.  Let me guess:  don't use the code in any way PKP or
: RSA doesn't like....such as...providing secure communications for the
: average citizen.
That was exactly its purpose if you know anything about it.  There is
nothing at all preventing the average citizen using it, only selling
it.
:
: I hope my cynicism is misplaced here.  Go ahead...I'm not afraid to
: be wrong every once in a while.  But, I have an uneasy feeling that I
: am right.  :(
It is and you are wrong yet you emotionally state a bunch of crap as fact
with a tiny disclaimer at the end.  Check your facts first and grow up.
Why is there such a strong correlation between interest in cryptography
and immaturity I wonder.
Bob Cain (normally rcain@netcom.com)
From: ld231782@longs.lance.colostate.edu (L. Detweiler)
Subject: Privacy & Anonymity on the Internet FAQ (1 of 3)
Supersedes: <net-privacy/part1_733153240@GZA.COM>
Organization: TMP Enterprises
Lines: 1220
Expires: 21 May 1993 04:00:06 GMT
Reply-To: ld231782@longs.lance.colostate.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: pad-thai.aktis.com
Summary: Email and account privacy, anonymous mailing and posting,
encryption, and other privacy and rights issues associated with use
of the Internet and global networks in general.
X-Last-Updated: 1993/03/04
Archive-name: net-privacy/part1
Last-modified: 1993/3/3
Version: 2.1
IDENTITY, PRIVACY, and ANONYMITY on the INTERNET
================================================
(c) 1993 L. Detweiler.  Not for commercial use except by permission
from author, otherwise may be freely copied.  Not to be altered.
Please credit if quoted.
SUMMARY
=======
Information on email and account privacy, anonymous mailing and
posting, encryption, and other privacy and rights issues associated
with use of the Internet and global networks in general.
(Search for <#.#> for exact section. Search for '_' (underline) for
next section.)
PART 1
====== (this file)
Identity
--------
<1.1> What is `identity' on the internet?
<1.2> Why is identity (un)important on the internet?
<1.3> How does my email address (not) identify me and my background?
<1.4> How can I find out more about somebody from their email address?
<1.5> Why is identification (un)stable on the internet?
<1.6> What is the future of identification on the internet?
Privacy
-------
<2.1> What is `privacy' on the internet?
<2.2> Why is privacy (un)important on the internet?
<2.3> How (in)secure are internet networks?
<2.4> How (in)secure is my account?
<2.5> How (in)secure are my files and directories?
<2.6> How (in)secure is X Windows?
<2.7> How (in)secure is my email?
<2.8> How am I (not) liable for my email and postings?
<2.9> How do I provide more/less information to others on my identity?
<2.10> Who is my sysadmin?  What does s/he know about me?
<2.11> Why is privacy (un)stable on the internet?
<2.12> What is the future of privacy on the internet?
Anonymity
---------
<3.1> What is `anonymity' on the internet?
<3.2> Why is `anonymity' (un)important on the internet?
<3.3> How can anonymity be protected on the internet?
<3.4> What is `anonymous mail'?
<3.5> What is `anonymous posting'?
<3.6> Why is anonymity (un)stable on the internet?
<3.7> What is the future of anonymity on the internet?
PART 2
====== (next file)
Resources
---------
<4.1> What UNIX programs are related to privacy?
<4.2> How can I learn about or use cryptography?
<4.3> What is the cypherpunks mailing list?
<4.4> What are some privacy-related newsgroups?  FAQs?
<4.5> What is internet Privacy Enhanced Mail (PEM)?
<4.6> What are other Request For Comments (RFCs) related to privacy?
<4.7> How can I run an anonymous remailer?
<4.8> What are references on privacy in email?
<4.9> What are some email, Usenet, and internet use policies?
<4.10> What is the MIT ``CROSSLINK'' anonymous message TV program?
Miscellaneous
-------------
<5.1> What is ``digital cash''?
<5.2> What is a ``hacker'' or ``cracker''?
<5.3> What is a ``cypherpunk''?
<5.4> What is `steganography' and anonymous pools?
<5.5> What is `security through obscurity'?
<5.6> What are `identity daemons'?
<5.7> What standards are needed to guard electronic privacy?
Issues
------
<6.1> What is the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF)?
<6.2> Who are Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility (CPSR)?
<6.3> What was `Operation Sun Devil' and the Steve Jackson Game case?
<6.4> What is Integrated Services Digital Network (ISDN)?
<6.5> What is the National Research and Education Network (NREN)?
<6.6> What is the FBI's proposed Digital Telephony Act?
<6.7> What other U.S. legislation is related to privacy on networks?
<6.8> What are references on rights in cyberspace?
<6.9> What is the Computers and Academic Freedom (CAF) archive?
Footnotes
---------
<7.1> What is the background behind the Internet?
<7.2> How is Internet `anarchy' like the English language?
<7.3> Most Wanted list
<7.4> Change history
PART 3
====== (last file)
Anonymizing
-----------
<8.1> What are some known anonymous remailing and posting sites?
<8.2> What are the responsibilities associated with anonymity?
<8.3> How do I `kill' anonymous postings?
<8.4> What is the history behind anonymous posting servers?
<8.5> What is the value of anonymity?
<8.6> Should anonymous posting to all groups be allowed?
<8.7> What should system operators do with anonymous postings?
<8.8> What is going on with anon.penet.fi maintained by J. Helsingius?
* * *
IDENTITY
========
_____
<1.1> What is `identity' on the internet?
Generally, today people's `identity' on the internet is primarily
determined by their email address in the sense that this is their
most unchanging 'face' in the electronic realm.   This is your
login name qualified by the complete address domain information,
for example ``ld231782@longs.lance.colostate.edu''.  People see
this address when receiving mail or reading USENET posts from you
and in other situations where programs record usage.  Some obsolete
forms of addresses (such as BITNET) still persist.
In email messages, additional information on the path that a message
takes is prepended to the message received by the recipient.  This
information identifies the chain of hosts involved in the
transmission and is a very accurate trace of its origination.  This
type of identify-and-forward protocol is also used in the USENET
protocol to a lesser extent.  Forging these fields requires
corrupted mailing software at sites involved in the forwarding and
is very uncommon.  Not so uncommon is forging the chain at the
origination point, so that all initial sites in the list are faked
at the time the message is created.  Tracing these messages can be
difficult or impossible when the initial faked fields are names of
real machines and represent real transfer routes.
_____
<1.2> Why is identity (un)important on the internet?
The concept of identity is closely intertwined with communication,
privacy, and security, which in turn are all critical aspects of
computer networks. For example, the convenience of communication
afforded by email would be impossible without conventions for
identification.  But there are many potential abuses of identity
possible that can have very severe consequences, with massive
computer networks at the forefront of the issue, which can
potentially either exacerbate or solve these problems.
Verifying that an identity is correct is called `authentication',
and one classic example of the problems associated with it is
H.G.Well's ``War of the Worlds'' radio broadcast that fooled
segments of the population into thinking that an alien invasion was
in progress.  Hoaxes of this order are not uncommon on Usenet and
forged identities makes them more insidious.  People and their
reputations can be assaulted by forgery.
However, the fluidity of identity on the internet is for some one of
its most attractive features. Identity is just as useful as it is
harmful.  A professor might carefully explain a topic until he
finds he is talking to an undergraduate. A person of a particular
occupation may be able to converse with others who might normally
shun him.  Some prejudices are erased, but, on the other hand, many
prejudices are useful!  A scientist might argue he can better
evaluate the findings of a paper as a reviewer if he knows more
about the authors.  Likewise, he may be more likely to reject it
based on unfair or irrelevant criteria.  On the other side of the
connection,  the author may find identities of reviewers useful in
exerting pressure for acceptance.
Identity is especially crucial in establishing and regulating
`credit' (not necessarily financial) and `ownership' and `usage'.
Many functions in society demand reliable and accurate techniques
for identification. Heavy reliance will be placed on digital
authentication as global economies become increasingly electronic.
Many government functions and services are based on identification,
and law enforcement frequently hinges on it.  Hence, employees of
many government organizations push toward stronger identification
structures.  But when does identification invade privacy?
The growth of the internet is provoking social forces of massive
proportions. Decisions made now on issues of identity will affect
many future users, especially as the network becomes increasingly
global, universal, widespread, and entrenched; and the positive or
adverse affects of these actions, intended and inadvertent,  will
literally be magnified exponentially.
_____
<1.3> How does my email address (not) identify me and my background?
Your email address may contain information that influences people's
perceptions of your background.  The address may `identify' you as
from a department at a particular university, an employee at a
company, or a government worker.  It may contain your last name,
initials, or cryptic identification codes independent of both.  In
the US some are based on parts of social security numbers.  Others
are in the form 'u2338' where the number is incremented in the
order that new users are added to the system.
Standard internet addresses  also can contain information  on your
broad geographical location or nationhood.  However, none of this
information is guaranteed to be correct or be there at all.  The
fields in the domain qualification of the username are based on
rather arbitrary organization, such as (mostly invisible) network
cabling distributions.  The only point to make is that early fields
in the address are more specific (such as specific computer names
or local networks) and the later ones the most general (such as
continental domains).  Typically the first field is the name of the
computer receiving mail.
Gleaning information from the email address alone is sometimes an
inspired art or an inconsistent and futile exercise.  (For more
information, see the FAQs on email  addresses and known
geographical distributions below.)  However, UNIX utilities exist
to aid in the quest (see the question on this).
Common Suffixes
---------------
.us    United States
.uk    United Kingdom
.ca    Canada
.fi    Finland
.au    Australia
.edu   university or college
.com   commercial organization
.org   'other' (e.g. nonprofit organization)
.gov   government
.mil   military site
_____
<1.4> How can I find out more about somebody with a given email address?
One simple way is to send email to that address, asking.  Another
way is to send mail to the postmaster at that address (i.e.
postmaster@address), although the postmaster's job is more to help
find user ID's of particular people given their real name and solve
mail routing problems.  The sysadmin (i.e. `root@address') may also
be able to supply information.  Users with related email address
may have information.  However, all of these methods rely on the
time and patience of others so use them minimally.
One of the most basic tools for determining identity over the
internet is the UNIX utility 'finger'.  The basic syntax is:
finger user@here.there.everywhere
This utility uses communication protocols to query the computer
named in the address for information on the user named.  The
response is generated completely by the receiving computer and may
be in any format.  Possible responses are as follows:
- A message `unknown host' meaning some aspect of the address is
incorrect, two lines with no information and '???'.
- A message 'In real life: ???' in which case the receiving computer
could not find any kind of a match on the username. The finger
utility may return this response in other situations.
- A listing of information associated with multiple users. Some
computers will search only for matching user IDs, others will
attempt to find the username you specified as a substring of all
actual full names of users kept in a local database.
At some sites 'finger' can be used to get a list of all users on the
system with a `finger @address'.  In general this is often
considered weak security, however, because `attackers' know valid
user ID's to `crack' passwords.
More information on the fields returned by `finger' is given below.
More information on `finger' and locating people's email addresses
is given in the email FAQ (such as the WHOIS lookup utility).  Just
as you can use these means to find out about others, they can use
them to find out about you.  You can `finger' yourself to find out
what is publicly reported by your UNIX system about you.  Be
careful when modifying `finger' data; virtually anyone with
internet access worldwide can query this information.  In one
amazing case, the New York Times writer J. Markoff uncovered the
identity of R. Morris, author of the Internet Worm,  through
the use of an anonymous tip and 'finger'.  See the book Cyberspace
by K. Hafner and J. Markoff.
_____
<1.5> Why is identification (un)stable on the internet?
Generally, identity is an amorphous and almost nonexistent concept
on the Internet for a variety of reasons.  One is the inherent
fluidity of `cyberspace' where people emerge and submerge
frequently, and absences are not readily noted in the `community'.
Most people remember faces and voices, the primary means of casual
identification in the 'real world'.  The arbitary and cryptic
sequences of letters and digits comprising most email addresses are
not particularly noticeable or memorable and far from a unique
identification of an individual, who may use multiple accounts on
multiple machines anywhere in the world.
Currently internet users do not really have any great assurances
that the messages in email and USENET are from who they appear to
be. A person's mailing address is far from an identification of an
individual.
- Anyone with access to the account, e.g. they know the password,
either legitimately or otherwise, can send mail with that address
in the From: line.
- Email addresses for an individual tend to change frequently as
they switch jobs or make moves inside their organizations.
- As part of current mailing protocol standards, forging the From:
line in mail messages is a fairly trivial operation for many
hackers.
The status and path information prepended to messages by
intermediate hosts is generally unforgeable. In general, while
possible, forgeries are fairly rare on most newsgroups and in
email.  Besides these pathological cases abve there are many basic
problems with today's internet protocols affecting identification
on the internet:
- Internet mail standards, described in RFC-822, are still evolving
rapidly and not entirely orderly.  For example, standards for
mail address `munging' or `parsing' tend to vary slightly between
sites and frequently mean the difference between finding
addresses and bouncing mail.
- Domain names and computer names are frequently changed at sites,
and there are delays in the propagation of this data.
- Addresses cannot be resolved when certain critical computers
crash, such as the receiving computer or other computers involved
in resolving names into addresses called `nameservers'.
- A whole slew of problems is associated with  `nameservers'; if
they are not updated they will not find name addresses, and even
the operation of what constitutes `updating' has different
interpretations at different sites.
The current internet mailing and addressing protocols are slightly
anachronistic in that they were created when the network was
somewhat obscure and not widespread, with only a fraction of the
traffic it now sees.  Today a large proportion of internet traffic
is email, comprising  millions of messages.
_____
<1.6> What is the future of identification on the internet?
Some new technologies and standards are introducing facial images
and voice messages  into mail and these will improve the sense of
community that comes from the familiarity of identification.
However, they are not currently widespread, require large amounts
of data transfer, standardized software, and make some compromises
in privacy.
Promising new cryptographic techniques may make 'digital signatures'
and 'digital authentication' common (see below).  Also, the trend
in USENET standards is toward greater authentication of posted
information.  On the other hand, advances in ensuring anonymity
(such as remailers) are forthcoming.  See below.
PRIVACY
=======
_____
<2.1> What is `privacy' on the internet?
Generally, while `privacy' has multiple connotations in society and
perhaps even more on the internet, in cyberspace most take it to
mean that you have exclusive use and access to your account and the
data stored on and and directed to it (such as email), and you do
not encounter arbitrary restrictions or searches.  In other words,
others may obtain data associated with your account, but not
without your permission.  These ideas are probably both fairly
limiting and liberal in their scope in what most internet users
consider their private domains.  Some users don't expect or want
any privacy, some expect and demand it.
_____
<2.2> Why is privacy (un)important on the internet?
This is a somewhat debatable and inflammatory topic, arousing
passionate opinions.  On the internet, some take privacy for
granted and are rudely surprised to find it tenuous or nonexistent.
Most governments have rules that protect privacy (such as the
illegal search and seizure clause of the U.S. constitution, adopted
by others) but have many that are antithetical to it (such as laws
prohibiting secret communications or allowing wiretapping). These
rules generally carry over to the internet with few specific rules
governing it.  However, the legal repercussions of the global
internet are still largely unknown and untested (i.e. no strong
legal precedents and court cases).  The fact that internet traffic
frequently passes past international boundaries, and is not
centrally managed, significantly complicates and strongly
discourages its regulation.
_____
<2.3> How (in)secure are internet networks?
- `Theoretically' people at any site in the chain of sites with
access to hardware and network media that transmits data over the
Internet  could potentially monitor or archive it. However, the
sheer volume and general 'noise' inherent to this data makes
these scenarios highly improbable, even by government agencies
with supposedly vast funding and resources.
- Technologies exist to `tap' magnetic fields given off by
electrical wires without detection.  Less obscurely, any machine
with a network connection is a potential station for traffic
detection, but this scenario requires knowledge and access to
very low-level hardware (the network card) to pursue, if even
possible.
- A company Network General Inc. is one of many that manufactures
and markets sophisticated network monitoring tools that can
'filter' and read packets by arbitrary criteria for
troubleshooting purposes, but the cost of this type of device is
prohibitive for casual use.
Known instances of the above types of security  breaches at a major
scale (such as at network hubs) are very rare. The greatest risks
tend to emerge locally.  Note that all these approaches are almost
completely defused with the use of cryptography.
_____
<2.4> How (in)secure is my account?
By default, not very.  There are a multitude of factors that may
reinforce or compromise aspects of your privacy on the internet.
First, your account must be secure from other users. The universal
system is to use a password, but if it is `weak' (i.e. easy to
guess) this security is significantly diminished.  Somewhat
surprisingly and frighteningly to some, certain  users of the
system, particularly the administrator, generally have unlimited
access regardless of passwords, and may grant that access to
others.  This means that they may read any file in your account
without detection.
Furthermore, not universally known, most UNIX systems keep fairly
extensive accounting records of when and where you logged in, what
commands you execute, and when they are executed (in fact, login
information is usually public). Most features of this `auditing' or
`process accounting' information are enabled by default after the
initial installation and the system administrator may customize it
to strengthen or weaken it to satisfy performance or privacy aims.
This information is frequently consulted for troubleshooting
purposes and may otherwise be ignored.  This data tracks
unsuccessful login attempts and other 'suspicious' activities on
the system. A traditional part of the UNIX system that tracks user
commands is easily circumvented by the user with the use of
symbolic links (described  in 'man ln').
UNIX implementations vary widely particularly in tracking features
and new sophisticated mechanisms are introduced by companies
regularly. Typically system adminstrators augment the basic UNIX
functionality with public-domain programs and locally-developed
tools for monitoring, and use them only to isolate `suspicious'
activity as it arises (e.g. remote accesses to the 'passwd' file, incorrect
login attempts, remote connection attempts, etc.).
Generally, you should expect little privacy on your account for
various reasons:
- Potentially, every keystroke you type could be intercepted by
someone else.
- System administrators make extensive backups that are completely
invisible to users which may record the states of an account over
many weeks.
- Erased files can, under many operating systems, be undeleted.
- Most automated services keep logs of use for troubleshooting or
otherwise; for example FTP sites usually log the commands and
record the domain originations of users, including anonymous
ones.
- Some software exacerbates these problems.  See the section on
``X Windows (in)security''.
Indepedent of malevolent administrators are fellow users, a much
more commonly harmful threat. There are multiple ways to help
ensure that your account will not be accessed by others, and
compromises can often be traced to failures in these guidelines:
- Choose a secure password.  Change it periodically.
- Make sure to logout always.
- Do not leave a machine unattended for long.
- Make sure no one watches you when you type your password.
- Avoid password references in email.
- Be conservative in the use of the .rhost file.
- Use utilities like `xlock' to protect a station, but be
considerate.
Be wary of situations where you think you should supply your
password.  There are only several basic situations where UNIX
prompts you for a password: when you are logging in to a system or
changing your password.  Situations can arise in which prompts for
passwords are forged by other users, especially in cases where you
are talking to them (such as Internet Relay Chat).  Also, be  aware
that forged login screens are one method to illegitimately obtain
passwords.
(Thanks to Jim Mattson <mattson@cs.ucsd.edu> for contributions
here.)
_____
<2.5> How (in)secure are my files and directories?
The most important privacy considerations are related to file
rights, and many lapses can be traced to their misunderstood nature
or haphazard maintenance. Be aware of the rights associated with
your files and directories in UNIX. If the `x' (`execute') right on
your parent directory is off for users, groups, and other, these
users cannot gain information on anything in your directories.
Anything less may allow others to read, change, or even delete
files in your home directory. The rights on a directory supersede
the rights associated with files in that directory. For a
directory, 'x' means that access to the files (or subdirectories)
in the directory is possible -- if you know their names.  To list
the contents of the directory, however, requires the 'r' right.
By default most accounts are accessable only to the owner, but the
initial configuration varies between sites based on administrator
preference.  The default file mode specifies the initial rights
associated with newly created files, and can be set in the shell
with `umask'.  The details of rights implementations tend to vary
between versions of UNIX.  Consult man pages on `chmod' and `ls'.
Examples
--------
traver.lance % ls -ld ~
drwx------ 15 ld231782     1536 Jan 31 21:22 /users/ld231782/
Here is a listing of the rights associated with a user's home
directory, denoted by `~'.  The columns at the left identify what
rights are available. The first column identifies the entry as a
directory, and the next three columns mean that read, write, and
execute rights, respectively, are permitted for that user.  For
directories, the `x' right means that contents (file and
subdirectory names) within that directory can be listed. The
subsequent columns indicate that no other users have any rights to
anything in the directory tree originating at that point.  They
can't even `see' any lower files or subdirectories; the hierarchy
is completely invisible to them.
traver.lance % ls -l msg
-rw-r--r--  1 ld231782   35661 Jan 29 23:13 msg
traver.lance % chmod u=rw,g=,o= msg
traver.lance % ls -l msg
-rw-------  1 ld231782   35661 Jan 29 23:13 msg
Here the modes on the file `msg' were changed to take away rights
from `group' and `other'.
Note that `ls -l <file>' requires both the 'r' right to get the list
of files and subdirectories, and the 'x' right to access the files
and subdirectories in order to get their size, etc. For example,
suppose the directory `foo' has rights dr--r--r--,  the following
is possible:
ls foo
These commands would fail independent of file rights:
ls -l foo
ls -l foo/file
cat foo/file
cd foo
If the directory `foo' has rights d--x--x--x, the following are
possible if it is known beforehand that `foo' contains an 'r'
readable file named `file':
ls -l foo/file
cat foo/file
cd foo
The following commands fail:
ls foo
ls -l foo
(Thanks to Uwe Waldmann <uwe@mpi-sb.mpg.de> for contributions here.)
_____
<2.6> How (in)secure is X Windows?
X Windows is the primary software developed by the MIT Athena
project which is funded by U.S. government grants to develop
applications to harness the power of networks in enhancing
computational tasks, particularly the human-computer interface.
The software implements a client-server interface to a computer via
graphical windows. In this case the `client' is the application
requesting or utilizing  graphical resources (such as windows or a
mouse) and the `server' is the machine that provides them.  In many
situations the client is an application program running on the same
machine as the server.
The great utility of X Windows comes from its complete dissociation
of the client and server so that windows may be `broadcast' to a
server at a remote location from the  client. Unfortunately this
dynamic power also introduces many deep, intricate, and complicated
security considerations.  The primary security and privacy issue
associated with X Windows is that much more sensitive data may be
sent over a network, and over wider regions, than in the case where
the human is situated near the host computer.  Currently there is
no encryption of data such as screen updates and keystrokes in X
Windows.
Due to either intentional design decisions or unintentional design
flaws,  early versions of the X Window system are extremely
insecure. Anyone with an account on the server machine can disrupt
that display or read it electronically based on access to the
device unix:0.0 by any regular user.   There are no protections
from this type of access in these versions.   The problem arises
because the security is completely based on machine addresses
rather than users, such that any user at a `trusted' machine is
himself trusted. Quoting from X documentation (man Xsecurity):
> Any client on a host in the host access control list is allowed
> access to the X server. This system can work reasonably well in
> an environment where everyone trusts everyone, or when only a
> single person can log into a given machine...This system does not
> work well when multiple people can log in to a single machine and
> mutual trust does not exist.
With the access control list, the `xhost' command may prevent some
naive attempts (i.e. those other than the direct-access unix:0.0
evasion); the syntax as typed on the host machine is  ``xhost
+[name]'' where [name] is the domain name or internet address of an
authorized client machine. By default clients running nonlocal to
the host are disabled.  Public domain programs to disrupt a display
momentarily (such as 'flip' or slowly mirror the screen image, or
cause pixels to 'melt' down to the bottom) have been circulating on
the internet among hackers for several years and played as pranks
on unsuspecting or inexperienced users.  Much more serious security
breaches are conceivable from similar mechanisms exploiting this
inherent weaknesses.  (The minimal, easily-bypassed `trusted'
security mode of `xhost' has been jokingly referred to as ``X
Hanging Open, Security Terrible.'').
New versions of the X Window system (X11R5 and higher) by default
make server access as secure as the file system using a .Xauthority
file and 'magic cookies'.  Remote machines must have a code in the
.Xauthority file in the home directory that matches the code
allowed by the server.  Many older programs and even new
vendor-supplied code does not support or is incompatible with
`magic cookies'. The basic magic cookie mechanism is vulnerable to
monitoring techniques described earlier because no encryption of
keys occurs in transmission.  X11R5 also includes other
sophisticated encryption mechanisms.  Try `man Xsecurity' to find
out what is supported at your site.  Even though improved security
mechanisms have been available in X Windows since ~1990, local
sites often update this software infrequently because installation
is extremely complex.
(Thanks to Marc Vanheyningen <mvanheyn@whale.cs.indiana.edu>,
Jim Mattson <mattson@cs.ucsd.edu>, and Bill Marshall
<marshall@cs.iastate.edu> for contributions here.)
_____
<2.7> How (in)secure is my email?
By default, not very.  The characters that you are reading are
almost certainly encoded in ASCII, the American Standard Code for
Information Interchange that maps alphabetic and symbolic
characters onto numeric codes and vice versa.  Virtually every
computer system uses this code, and if not, has ways of converting
to and from it.  When you write a mail message, by default it is
being sent in ASCII,  and since the standard is virtually
universal, there is no intrinsic privacy.  Despite milleniums worth
of accumulated cryptographic knowledge, cryptographic technologies
are only recently being established that afford high priority to
privacy as a primary criteria in computer and network design.  Some
potential pitfalls in privacy are as follows:
- The most serious threats are instances of immature or unscrupulous
system operators reading private mail in the `spool files' at a
local site (i.e. at the source or destination of the message),
such as a university.
- System administrators may also release files to law enforcement
agencies, but conventions and protocols for warrants involving
computer searches have still not been strongly established and
tested legally.
- Note that bounced messages go to postmasters at a given site in
their entirety.  This means that if you address mail with an
incorrect address it has a good chance of being seen by a human
other than the recipient.
- Typically new user accounts are always set up such that the local
mail directory is private, but this is not guaranteed and can be
overridden.
- Finally, be aware that some mailing lists (email addresses of
everyone on a list) are actually publicly accessable via mail
routing software mechanisms.  This `feature' can be disabled.
Most potential compromises in email privacy can be thoroughly
avoided with the use of strong end-to-end cryptography, which has
its own set of caveats (for example, unscrupulous administrators
may still be a threat if the encryption site is shared or
nonlocal).  See the sections on ``email privacy'' and ``email
policies.''
_____
<2.8> How am I (not) liable for my email and postings?
As punishment or whatever, your system administrator can revoke
certain `privileges' such as emailing, USENET posting or reading
certain groups, file transferring, remote communications, or
generally any subset of capabilities available from your account.
This all is completely at the discretion of the local administrator
and under the procedures followed at a particular site, which in
many cases are haphazard and crisis-oriented.  Currently there are
virtually no widespread, uniform guidelines or procedures  for
restricting use to any internet services, and local administrators
are free to make arbitrary decisions on access.
Today punitive measures are regularly applied in various situations.
In the typical scenario complaint(s) reach a system adminstrator
regarding abuses by a user, usually but not necessarily preceded by
complaints to the user in email, regarding that person's
objectionable email or postings.  `abusive' posters to USENET are
usually first given admonitions from their system administrators as
urged by others on the `net'. (The debate persists endlessly on
many newsgroups whether this is also used  as a questionable means
of attacking or silencing `harmless crackpots' or censoring
unpopular opinions.)
System administrators at remote sites regularly cooperate to
'squelch' severe cases of abuse.  In general, however, by tradition
Usenet readers are remarkably tolerant of diverse views and uses of
the system, but a colorful vocabularly of slang helps describe
their alternatives when this patience is sapped: the options
wielded by the individual user are to simply advance to the next
message (referred to as ``hitting the `n' key''), or to `plonk'
annoying posters (according to the Hacker's Dictionary, the sound a
jerk makes at the end of a fall to the bottom of a kill file).
In cases where punitive actions are applied, generally system
administrators are least likely to restrict email.  USENET postings
are much more commonly restricted, either to individual users or
entire groups (such as a university campus).  Restrictions are most
commonly associated with the following `abuses':
- harassing or threatening notes, `email terrorism'
- illegal uses, e.g. piracy or propagation of copyrighted material
- `ad hominem' attacks, i.e. insulting the reputation of the
poster instead of citing the content of the message
- intentional or extreme vulgarity and offensiveness
- inappropriate postings, esp. binary files in regular groups
`mail-bombing': inundating mail boxes with numerous or massive
files
Major problems originate from lack of distinctions in private and
official email or postings.  Most users have internet access via
accounts at businesses or universities and their activities on the
internet can be construed as representative of their parent
organizations. Many people put disclaimers in their `signatures' in
an attempt dissociate their identity and activities from parent
organizations as a precaution. A recent visible political case
involves the privacy of electronic mail  written by White House
staff members of the Bush administration.  Following are some
guidelines:
- Acquaint yourself with your company or university policy.
- If possible, avoid use of your company email address for private
communication.
- Use a disclaimer.
- Keep a low profile (avoid `flamewars' or simply don't post).
- Avoid posting information that could be  construed to be
proprietary or `internal'.
The following references are available from ftp.eff.com
(see also the section on ``internet use policies''):
/pub/academic/banned.1991
/pub/academic/banned.1992
---
Computer material that was banned/challenged in academia in 1991
and 1992 including USENET hierarchies.
/pub/academic/cases
---
This is an on-line collection of information about specific
computers and academic freedom cases. File README is a detailed
description of the items in the directory.
/pub/academic/faq/netnews.liability
---
Notes on university liability for Usenet.
_____
<2.9> How do I provide more/less information to others on my identity?
The public information of your identity and account is mostly
available though the UNIX utility `finger' described above.
- You have control over most of this information with the utility
`chfn', the specifics vary between sites (on some systems use
`passwd -f').
- You can provide unlimited information in the .plan file which is
copied directly to the destination during the fingering.
- A technique that works at some sites allows you to find out who is
'finger'ing you and even to  vary the .plan file sent to them.
- Your signature is determined by the environment variable SIGNATURE
- USENET signatures are conventionally stored in the .signature file
in your home directory.
Providing less information on your online identity is more difficult
and involved.  One approach is to ask your system adminstrator to
change or delete information about you (such as your full name).
You may be able to obtain access on a public account or one from
someone unrelated to you personally.  You may be able to remotely
login (via modem or otherwise) to computers that you are not
physically near.  These are tactics for hiding or masking your
online activities but nothing is foolproof.  Consult man pages on
the 'chmod' command and the default file mode.  Generally, files on
a shared system have good safeguards within the user pool but very
little protection is possible from corrupt system administrators.
To mask your identity in email or on USENET you can use different
accounts. More untraceable are new `anonymous posting' and
remailing services that are very recently being established.  See
below.
______
<2.10> Who is my sysadmin?  What does s/he know about me?
The requirements and screening for getting a system administration
job (and thereby access to all information on a system) vary widely
between sites and are sometimes frighteningly lax, especially at
universities.  Many UNIX systems at universities are largely
managed by undergraduates with a background in computing and often
`hacking'.  In general, commercial and industrial sites are more
strict on qualifications and background, and government sites are
extremely strict.
The system adminstrator (root user) can monitor what commands you
used and at what times.  S/he may have a record (backups) of files
on your account over a few weeks. S/he can monitor when  you send
email or post USENET messages, and potentially read either.  S/he
may have access to records indicating what hosts you are using,
both locally and elsewhere.  Administrators sometimes employ
specialized programs to  track `strange' or `unusual' activity,
which can potentially be misused.
______
<2.11> Why is privacy (un)stable on the internet?
For the numerous reasons listed above, privacy should not be an
expectation with current use of the internet.  Furthermore, large
parts of the internet are funded by the U.S. NSF (National Science
Foundation) which places certain restrictions on its use (such as
prohibiting commercial use).  Some high-level officials in this and
other government agencies may be opposed to emerging techniques to
guarantee privacy (such as encryption and anonymous services).
Historically the major threats to privacy on the internet have been
local. Perhaps the most common example of this are the widespread
occurrences of university administrators refusing to carry some
portion of USENET newsgroups labelled as `pornographic'. The
`alternative' hierarchy in the USENET system, which has virtually
no restrictions on propagation and new group creation, is
frequently targeted (although this material may appear anywhere).
From the global point of view traffic is generally completely
unimpeded on the internet  and only the most egregious offenders
are pursued.  For example,  verbatim transcriptions of copyrighted
material (such as newspaper or magazine articles) are posted to
USENET with regularity without major consequences (some email
complaints may ensue).  More astonishing to some is that currently
significant portions of USENET traffic, and less so internet
traffic, is comprised of sexually-explicit digitized images almost
entirely originating from copyrighted material (newsgroups such as
`alt.sex' regularly have the  highest traffic).
______
<2.12> What is the future of privacy on the internet?
Some argue that the internet currently has an adequate or
appropriate level of privacy.  Others will argue that as a
prototype for future global networks it has woefully inadequate
safeguards.  The internet is growing to become a completely global,
international superhighway for data, and this traffic will
inevitably entail data such as voice messages, postal mail, and
many other items of extremely personal nature. Computer items that
many people consider completely private (such as their local hard
drives) will literally be inches from global network connections.
Also, sensitive industrial and business information is exchanged
over networks currently and this volume may conceivably merge with
the internet.
Most would agree that, for these basic but sensitive uses of the
internet, no significant mechanisms are currently in place to
ensure much privacy. New standards are calling for uniform
introduction of `privacy enhanced mail' (PEM) which uses encryption
technologies to ensure privacy, so that privacy protection is
automatic, and may significantly improve safeguards.
The same technology that can be extremely destructive to privacy
(such as with  surreptitious surveilance) can be overwhelmingly
effective in protecting  it (e.g. with encryption). Some government
agencies are opposed to unlimited privacy in general, and believe
that it should lawfully be forfeited in cases of criminal conduct
(e.g. court-authorized wiretapping).  However, powerful new
technologies to protect privacy on computers are becoming
increasingly popular, provoking some to say that ``the cat is out
of the bag'' and the ``genie can't be put back in the bottle''.  In
less idiomatic terms, they believe that the spread of strong
cryptography is already underway will be socially and technically
unstoppable.
To date, no feasible system that guarantees both secure
communication and government oversight has been proposed (the two
goals are largely incompatible). Proposals for ``registration'' of
secret keys (by D. Denning on sci.crypt, for example) have been met
with hot controversy at best and ridicule and derision at worst,
mainly because of concerns for the right to privacy and objections
of inherent feasibility.  Electronic privacy issues, and
particularly the proper roles of networks and the internet, will
foreseeably become highly visible and explosive over the next few
years.
ANONYMITY
=========
_____
<3.1> What is `anonymity' on the internet?
Simply stated, anonymity is the absence of identity, the
ultimate in privacy. However, there are several variations on
this simple theme.  A person may wish to be consistently
identified by a certain pseudonym or `handle' and establish a
reputation under it in some area, providing pseudo-anonymity.
A person may wish to be completely untraceable for a single
one-way message (a sort of `hit-and-run'). Or, a person may
wish to be openly anonymous but carry on a conversation with
others (with either known or anonymous identities) via an
`anonymous return address'.  A user may wish to appear as a
`regular user' but actually be untraceable.  Sometimes a user
wishes to hide who he is sending mail to (in addition to the
message itself). The anonymous item itself may be directed at
individuals or groups.  A user may wish to access some
service and hide all  signs of the association.
All of these uses are feasible on the internet but are currently
tricky to carry out in practice, because of all the tracking
mechanisms inherent to operating systems and network protocols.
Officials of the NSF and other government agencies may be opposed
to any of these uses because of the potential for abuse.
Nevertheless, the inherent facelessness of large networks will
always guarantee a certain element of anonymity.
_____
<3.2> Why is `anonymity' (un)important on the internet?
Anonymity is another powerful tool that can be beneficial or
problematic depending on its use.  Arguably absence of
identification is important as the presence of it.  It may be the
case that many strong benefits from electronic anonymity will be
discovered that were unforeseen and unpredicted, because true
anonymity has been historically very difficult to establish.
One can use anonymity to make personal statements to a colleague
that would sabotage a relationship if stated openly (such as
employer/employee scenarios).  One can use it to pass information
and evade any threat of direct retribution.  For example,
`whistleblowers' reporting on government abuses (economic, social,
or  political) can bring issues to light without fear of stigma or
retaliation. Sensitive, personal, potentially damaging information
is often posted to some USENET groups, a risky situation where
anonymity allows conversations to be carried on completely
independent of the identities of the participants.  Some police
departments run phone services that allow anonymous reporting of
crimes; such uses would be straightforward on the network.
Unfortunately, extortion and harassment become more insidious with
assurances of anonymity.
_____
<3.3> How can anonymity be protected on the internet?
The chief means, as alluded to above, are masking identities in
email and posting. However, anonymous accounts (public accounts as
accessable and anonymous as e.g. public telephones) may be
effective as well, but this use is generally not officially
supported and even discouraged by some system adminstrators and NSF
guidelines.  The nonuniformity in the requirements of obtaining
accounts at different sites and institutions makes anonymous
accounts generally difficult to obtain to the public at large.
Many communications protocols are inherently detrimental to
anonymity.  Virtually every protocol in existence currently
contains information on both sender and receiver in every packet.
New communications protocols will likely develop that guarantee
much higher degrees of secure anonymous communication.
_____
<3.4> What is `anonymous mail'?
One approach to `anonymizing' mail has been to set up an `anonymous
server' that, when activated by email to its address, responds by
allocating and supplying an `anonymous ID' that is unique to the
person requesting it (based on his email address).  This will vary
for the same person for different machine address email
originations. To send anonymous mail, the user sends email directed
to the server containing the final destination. The server
`anonymizes' the message by stripping of identification information
and forwards the message, which appears to originate from the
anonymous server only from the corresponding anonymous user id.
This is the `interactive' use of anonymity or pseudonymity
mentioned above.
Another more `fringe' approach is to run a `cypherpunk' remailer
from a regular user account (no root system privileges are
required). These are currently being pioneered by  Eric Hughes and
Hal Finney <hal@alumni.caltech.edu>. The operator runs a process on
a machine that anonymizes mail sent to him with certain
characteristics that distinguish it from his regular incoming mail
(typically fields in the header). One has been implemented as a
PERL script running on UNIX.  Several of these are in existence
currently but sites and software currently are highly unstable;
they may be in operation outside of system administrator knowledge.
The remailers don't generally support anonymous return addresses.
Mail that is incorrectly addressed is received by the operator.
Generally the user of the remailer has to disavow any
responsibility for the messages forwarded through his system,
although actually may be held liable regardless.
These approaches have several serious disadvantages and weaknesses:
- The anonymous server approach requires maintaining a mapping of
anonymous ID's to real addresses that must be maintained
indefinitely.  One alternative is to allow `deallocation' of
aliases at the request of the user, but this has not been
implemented yet.
- Although an unlikely scenario, traffic to any of these sites could
conceivably be monitored from the `outside', necessitating the
use of cryptography for basic protection,.
- Local administrators can shut them down either out of caprice or
under pressure from local, network, or government agencies.
- Unscrupulous providers of the services can monitor the traffic
that goes through them.
- Most remailers currently keep logs that may be inspected.
- The cypherpunk approach tends to be highly unstable because these
operators are basically  network users who do not own the
equipment and are accountable  to their own system
administrators, who may be unaware of the use and unsympathetic
to the philosophy of anonymity when the operation is discovered,
regarding it as illicit use.
- In all cases, a high degree of trust is placed in the anonymous
server operator by the user.
Currently the most direct route to anonymity involves using SMTP
protocols to submit a message directly to a server with arbitrary
field information.  This practice, not uncommon to hackers, and the
approach used by remailers, is generally viewed with hostility by
most system administrators.  Information in the header routing data
and logs of network port connection information may be retained
that can be used to track the originating site.  In practice, this
is generally infeasible and rarely carried out.  Some
administrators on the network will contact local administrators to
request a message be tracked and its writer admonished or punished
more severely (such as revoking the account), all of this actually
happening occasionally but infrequently.
See the sections ``known anonymous mail and posting sites'' and
``responsibilities associated with anonymity''.
_____
<3.5> What is `anonymous posting'?
Anonymous servers have been established as well for anonymous Usenet
posting with all the associated caveats above (monitored traffic,
capricious or risky local circumstances, logging).  Make sure to
test the system at least once by e.g. anonymous posting to
misc.test (however some operators don't recommend this because many
sites `autorespond' to test messages, possibly causing the
anonymous server to allocate anonymous IDs for those machines).
See the ``responsibilties associated with anonymous posting''
before proceeding.
Another direct route involves using NNTP protocols to submit a
message directly to a newserver with arbitrary field information.
This practice, not uncommon to hackers, is also generally viewed
with hostility by most system administrators, and similar
consequences can ensue.
See the sections ``known anonymous mail and posting sites'' and
``responsibilities associated with anonymity''.
_____
<3.6> Why is anonymity (un)stable on the internet?
As noted, many factors compromise the anonymity currently available
to the general internet community, and these services should be
used with great caution.  To summarize, the technology is in its
infancy and current approaches are unrefined, unreliable, and not
completely trustworthy.  No standards have been established and
troubling situations of loss of anonymity and bugs in the software
are prevalent.  Here are some encountered and potential bugs:
- One  anonymous remailer reallocated already allocated anonymous
return addresses.
- Others passed signature information embedded in messages
unaltered.
- Address resolution problems resulting in anonymized mail bounced
to a remailer are common.
- Forgeries to the anonymous server itself are a problem,  possibly
allowing unauthorized users to potentially glean anon ID - email
address  mappings in the alias file.  This can be remedied with
the use of passwords.
- Infinite mail loops are possible with chaining remailers.
Source code is being distributed, tested, and refined for these
systems, but standards are progressing slowly and weakly.  The
field is not likely to improve considerably without  official
endorsement and action by network agencies.  The whole idea is
essentially still in its infancy and viewed with suspicion and