>Winfield has struggled during preseason.  Sunday against the Colorado
>Rockies he went 2 for 3 with 2 RBIs and scored once.
>
He looked pretty good there.  Contrary to what the mediots have been saying,
he looked reasonable at first.  He isn't mid-80s Hrbek, but then neither is
the Pretty Big Guy himself any more (note:  I'm used to seeing the Twins
1B looking kinda big on the field, but not that big!).  If he hits vaguely
like last year, he's a perfectly good first baseman.
Note:  Much of this posting is from personal observation yesterday in a game
where the regulars were mostly pulled after several innings.  Winfield may
have big holes in his defensive game that didn't show up (he didn't have to
pick any bad throws, for example), but I'll take what I saw so far.
David Thornley
"Have tickets, will travel to Dome"
From: tjrad@iastate.edu (Thomas J Radosevich)
Subject: Brewers injuries
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Lines: 21
Hi all,
I've been locked in a small closet chained to a lab bench for the last week or
two without access to really important information.  I saw the 3.5 million
shoulder back on the DL--How long is he out for (i.e. How many millions/inning
will he get this year?)  Nothing personal against Higuera mind you, just
wondering how Bud can keep coffing up money for him when he lets current
big producers go over a relative pittance. (Please realize the term
"relative pittance" can only be used with sarcasm when discussing baseball
salaries.)
Additional questions:  I did'nt get to see Bones pitch this spring--how is
he looking and where is he going to fit in the rotation?
How is Surhoff shaping up defensively at third?
Are they going to build a new stadium?  When?
Tom
From: vince@sscl.uwo.ca
Subject: Binaca Blast Deep Drive Derby (BBDDD) Returns
Organization: Social Science Computing Laboratory
Distribution: na
Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxr.sscl.uwo.ca
Lines: 72
In article <1piisn$asq@network.ucsd.edu>, king@cogsci.ucsd.edu (Jonathan King) writes:
>
> A less well-publicized part of the now infamous Darrin Jackson for
> Derek Bell trade was the fact that San Diego included $300,000 in the
> deal.  Even less publicized than this, however, was that the $300,000
> didn't come from the Padres, but from an un-named source, and that the
> money didn't go to the Blue Jays.  In Toronto, the money was diverted
> into a London bank account owned by a shadowy character named Vincent
> Gray.
I should be so lucky: the account number must have been rejected! :-)
> The odd thing was that Gray wasn't some British financier, but a
> Canadian social scientist working at the University of Western
> Ontario.  Gray was previously known to the authorities only as an
> associate of John Palmer, and as the man who had the previous year
> discovered the True Tater Name of "Bing Bang Ben" MacDonald.
To be accurate, it is "Big Bang Ben" MacDonald.
> Soon after that, Gray and Palmer sent word to Ottawa that Canada had
> achieved absolute superiority over the United States in the field of
> baseballistic research, as she controlled both the Acker-Cook
> Pitch-Alike Contest and the Binaca Blast Research Institute.  The Prime
> Minister smiled.
I hope not.  To think that I would inadvertantly give any pleasure to
Mulroney _really_ ruins my day.  PS: Matthew Wall: a marvellous ending
to the section on the Expos.
> Okay, so I'm not giving up the day job.  But, in an effort to help me
> keep the day job, I've managed to foist the job of running the Binaca
> Blast Deep Drive Derby onto Vince Gray, to whom future Deep
> Drive-related tidbits should be sent:
>
> VINCE@sscl.uwo.ca
or VINCE@VAXI.SSCL.UWO.CA; please identify any messages with the
subject line BBDDD
> Vince can take this post as the cue to chime in about what he plans to
> do as the new director of the Research Institute, and what kind of
> body armor Ontarians are wearing this Spring.  Meanwhile, I have to go
> pick up that truckload of Denis Boucher cards I bought to fill in the
> area behind our tool shed...
>
> jking
Realizing the taterific importance of this work, John Palmer and I
concluded that we might be able to pool some resources. I have not yet
gone through the archives that Jonathan sent to me; when I do, I will
send out an "official" introduction to the Deep Drive Derby.
However, I wonder if we need to rename the project, now that the
principal investigator and research archive have changed. Send your
suggestions for a rename of the study to me, at the address given
above.
And, just think:  it's opening day.  Soon, the balls will be flying
out (no, get your minds out of the gutter) of the ball parks, and
helpless bystanders will be injured by balls reentering the
atmosphere. (and you thought that meteorite showers were made of
rocks!)
Who will be the stars this year? Can anyone hope to combat Brad
Arnsberg's record start to last year?
The season is young, the balls newly rubbed in mud, the hot dogs
starting to boil for the rest of the year. Play ball (and take cover).
And may all your sliders hang.
Vince.
Subject: Re: DESIGNATED HITTER RULE
From: holsend@mhd.moorhead.msus.edu
Reply-To: holsend@mhd.moorhead.msus.edu
Organization: Moorhead State University, Moorhead, MN
Nntp-Posting-Host: 134.29.97.2
Lines: 14
In article <ekdfc.14.0@ttacs1.ttu.edu>, ekdfc@ttacs1.ttu.edu (David Coons) writes:
>In article <1993Apr4.221228.17577@bsu-ucs> 00ecgillespi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
>writes:
>>I AM DOING A POSTITION PAPER ON THE DESIGNATED HITTER RULE. ANY INFORMATION
>>OR EVEN OPINIONS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECITATED. 00ECGILLESPIE "MAGIC"
>
>Should be rescinded.  The rules say baseball is a game between two teams of
>nine players each.  Let's keep it that way.
Last weeks Sports Illustrated has a couple of big articles on the designated
hitter.  It is the 1993 baseball issue.                                                                            Th                        is weeks Sports Illustrated
From: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
Subject: (ATAS) N.L. games 8/2-8/5 & standings of all
Article-I.D.: usenet.1pqf84$caf
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 237
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu
Philadelphia at Chicago:  Teams tied for 1st after Sunday
Dick Redding battled Chet Brewer in the first game of a dramatic four
game series.  One Friday, one Saturday, and a good-old Sunday doubleheader.
"What could be better," declared Ernie Banks.  Perhaps the fact that the Cubs
are challenging?
"It's pitching, it's always been pitching that we've lacked," announced
Ryne Sandberg.  "If we can get by Brewer, then beat Carlton, Alexander, or
Bunning - preferrably 2 of the last three - we'll know we might be able to
win.
"Lord, I hope we pull it off."
The Phils scored once in the top of the first; Richie Ashburn singled, Pete
Rose followed with a hit, sending Ashburn around second.  Kiki Cuyler cut
the ball off in left center, and threw a bullet in to Ernie Banks, who threw
to Ron Santo to get Ashburn at third.  Rose went to second on the play.
Christobel Torrienti lifted a long fly to center, moving Pete Rose to
third.  Schmidt was walked - the Cubs were absolutely refusing to let him
beat them.  Both Torrienti and Schmidt will likely draw 130-150 walks this
year.  Chuck Klein is starting to hit very well, and he lashed a double into a
gap in right-center.  "Cool Papa" Bell's speed allowed him to cut the ball off
and prevent Schmidt from scoring.  Nellie Fox was walked, and Bob Boone
grounded out to second, ending the threat.
"Teams are starting to realize that you don't have to pitch to Schmidt or
Torrienti, and that is lowering their run total.  It puts a lot of pressure on
Klein and Dick Allen (who platoons with Chuck Klein and occasionally spells
Rose at first), and it's a credit to the Phillies that they've been able to
sustain their pace.  The picthers have slumped at times."  So came the
analysis from Frank Chance.
The Cubs got that run back when Bell bunted for a hit, Thomas' grounder
moved him to second, and - after Sandberg made out - Billy Williams singled
home a run.  In the sixth, Ron Santo launched a two-run homer to make it
3-1.  Dick Redding got in trouble in the eighth, as Schmidt singled and Klein
singled him to third.  Ed Reulbach entered to face Fox, but Dick Allen popped
out of the dugout to hit.  Allen doubled to right, but luckily for the Cubs,
Williams had moved to left and Andre Dawson had been inserted for defense.
He fired a bullet to home plate to keep Klein at third.  Lance Parrish, hitting
for Boone, was walked, and Bruce Sutter entered.  Larry Bowa grounded into
a 1-2-3 double play, but Ed Delahanty walked as a pinch-hitter.  Desiring a
strikeout, since Ashburn was likely to attempt a bunt hit with the quick
Trillo pinch-running at third, Chance brought in Lee Smith, who induced a
pop-up to the catcher from the speedy centerfielder, ending the inning.  The
Cubs took the win, 3-2, moving a game behind the Phillies.
Steve Carlton was called upon to battle 3-Finger Brown Saturday.  To get
another righthander in the lineup, Ron Santo moved to first and Bill Madlock
played third.  Unfortunately, Brown allowed six doubles, and the Cub bullpen
was worn down even more, as the Cubs tried to maintain a lead against
Lefty.  Madlock, batting sixth, had knocked two doubles of his own, driving
home four runs.  Gabby Hartnett hit two home runs, and Cuyler added
another, and the score was 8-6, Cubs after six innings.  The Phillie bullpen
had more troubles in the bottom of the eighth, as the Cubs grabbed 3 more
runs to ice an 11-7 triumph.
Sunday's twin bill saw Cool Papa Bell gather seven straight hits at one
point, including a rare outside-the-park home run in the second game, off
Robin Roberts.  Grover Alexander of the Phils took the first contest, 4-2, but
the Cubs captured the second one 5-4, with Waddell gaining the win.  Bruce
Sutter tossed two innings for the save, though he allowed one run in the
eighth.  The Cardinals stood half a game behind these co-leaders, and would
conclude their series with the Expos on Monday.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Montreal at St. Louis(August 3-6): 3-way tie for 1st
Dennis Martinez is on a roll, and he continued it versus John Tudor Friday.
The Expos have a wide variety of hitters, and - while they aren't among the
all-time greats, they are getting the job done.  After winning their first
first two games, they suddenly found themselves only 2 1/2 games out of
first in this wacky season.
Martinez triumphed 5-3 on Friday, and WIlliams outdueled Dizzy Dean 3-2
Saturday.  However, the Cardinals refused to give up, winning 6-2 on Sunday.
The Cards captured Monday's game, too, as Steve Carlton outdueled Steve
Rogers 3-2.  "We're really good against ground ball pitchers because of our
team speed," remarked Lou Brock.  "I don't see why we can't win this
division."
The Phillies and Cubs may have some reasons for them.  Two-thirds of
the way through the season, there is a 3-way tie for first.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
New York at Pittsburgh(August 3-6): 3 straight 3-2 wins for Bucs,
now 2 back - but in 4th!
"When your team is in a slump like we are, the worst thing is to play in a
pitcher's park like this," spoke Gil Hodges before the series.  Keith
Hernandez added that "their defense takes away quite a few runs per year,
and it must be giving them an extra 6-7 wins."  The Pirates have made only
26 errors all season, 6 ahead of the second place Dodgers.  Error totals tend
to be around 50 for the best defensive All-Time teams.
Rube Foster defeated Sid Fernandez 5-2 Friday, and Candelaria outshone
Seaver 3-2 Saturday, in a game featuring some outstanding defense.  When
Nolan Ryan and two relivers 6-hit the Mets in another 3-2 win Sunday, the
Pirates could once again look forward to a victory getting them back to the
.500 mark.  They had been unable to several times in the past month.  Bert
Blyleven met Dwight Gooden in the afternoon game.  Both pitchers possessed
fantastic stuff, and the only runs scored through eight innings were on home
runs - a solo shot by Rusty Staub of the Mets and a two-run blast by Ralph
Kiner for the Pirates.  The Mets' Darryl Strawberry singled home a run in the
top of the ninth off Jesse Orosco, working his second inning, after Mookie
Wilson pinch-ran for Gary Carter at second.  With one out and a runner on
first, Lee Mazilli was sent in to pinch-hit.  The Pirates countered with Kent
Tekulve, placing him in the fifth spot in the order and putting Barry Bonds in
left field as the ninth place hitter.  Tekulve induced a groundout forcing
Strawberry at second.  He slid hard into Honus Wagner, preventing the
Pirates from turning their fifth double play of the afternoon.  Tekulve
allowed a hit, but Clemente threw Mazilli out at third from near the right
field line, ending the inning.  Tug McGraw relieved Randy Myers, who entered
to pitch the eighth, and got one out before Bonds launched a rocket to deep
center, running through the stop sign at third to score an inside-the-park
homer to win.  The Pirates had scored an improbable 3 straight 3-2 wins,
and had moved to within 2 games of first place, with seven weeks to go.
------------------------------------------------------------------
San Francisco at Boswaukta(August 3-5):
Another Sunday doubleheader appeared on the schedule, as the Giants
managed to close the gap on the other teams thanks to some starting
pitching that just wouldn't tire.  In fact, reported manager John McGraw,
"once this rough part of the schedule is over, maybe as early as this coming
week, we may shift to a 4-man rotation again for a little while."
Juan Marichal continued his hot pitching Friday, beating Lew Burdette and
the Braves 4-1.  Willie Mays had all four r.b.i.s on 3 hits.  Rick Reuschel
faced Joe Niekro Saturday in a slugfest.  The Braves' park had been a homer
haven, but this took the cake, as the Giants won a seesaw affair 16-13.
Willie Mays had three homers, Willie McCovey, Eddie Matthews, and Don
Baylor had two, and Hank Aaron, Ernie Lombardi, Biz Mackey, and Mel Ott had
one each.  The Braves had collected 149 home runs going into Sunday's
doubleheader, putting them on a pace for 223, which would be 4 short of the
National League record.  They were still a tad behind the '61 Yankees' pace.
They had allowed over 120, though.  Vida Blue actually got the win after
retiring 2 batters in the fifth.  He allowed only a run in the sixth, but
faltered in the seventh.  Joe McGinnity earned the save.
In the doubleheader, the Braves' Hoyt Wilhelm failed to hold a lead in the
first game, but Hank Aaron homered off Bill Foster in the eighth as the
Braves won, 4-3.  The Giants took the second game, however, by a 6-2 score.
The homer by Aaron was a magical #150 by the Braves; however, they fell to
three game below .500, making a comeback extremely unlikely.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
San Diego at Cincinnati(Aug. 3-5):  Randy Jones faced Ewell
Blackwell in the first of this 3-game series, and the Padres felt rather
good.  With Don Mattingly straining his back in the last Cleveland game, the
trade looked even better.  McGriff's batting average was even rising.  Of
course, the bench was very poor, and Joe Gordon was only adequate in the
outfield, but these were minor problems, since the pitching was holding up.
Jones pitched a good game Friday, and won 6-3.  McGriff launched two
home runs.  Mel Harder earned a win with the help of Mark Davis and Ray
Narleski Saturday; 5-4 was the final score.  Tom Candiotti battled Satchel
Paige to a 3-3 tie through eight innings before departing.  The game was
scoreless for 4 more innings until the thirteenth.  Paige had departed after
10, and John Franco hurled a scoreless inning.  Tom Browning was working
his second scoreless inning, when Dave Winfield doubled with one out and
Joe Gordon was pitched around.  Thurm Munson doubled both runners home,
and the Padres gamed a 5-3 win.  The three-game sweep had pulled the
Giants into a tie with the Reds.  Though the Reds denied it, the highly
emotional series with the Dodgers may have taken too much out of them.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Brookangeles at Houston(August 3-5):
Another series capped off by a weekend doubleheader took place in the
wide open plains of the Astrodome.  The Astros sent Joe Niekro to the hill in
the first game, opposite Don Drysdale.  "Normally," Drysdale remarked, "I
would be challenging hitter by being ready to throw at them.  I can't afford
to with this team, though; we have to get our own runners going; we can't
afford to let the Astros beat us."  He then winked and said: "Well, maybe
Davis will get decked once."
The fact that Glenn Davis leads the team in homers with six (!) is
primarily why he would be decked, but it should be understood that his
current pace would give him nine for the season.  The hitting on this team is
a little better, but the power is all doubles and triples.  Still, Carl Furillo is
the main reason no Astro home runs were hit over the weekend, as he threw
two runners out trying for inside-the-park homers.  For those unaware of
the nastness of the Astros' park, they have a 23-foot high gray wall all
around the outfield; balls must be hit into the seats to be home runs.  The
foul poles are 355 feet from home plate, but the alleys are 400 feet away,
with center field at 420 feet.  "It's as if some three-year-old threw a
tantrum and told his playmates: 'If I can't hit home runs, nobody will hit
home runs'," remarked Roy Campanella.
The Dodgers stole five bases Friday, but the Astros decided to revitalize
the Baltimore chopping that had failed 6 weeks before; for tonight, anyway,
Davis, Jim Wynn, and Jose Cruz did not have to mess with their swings,
according to the manager.  After Poles and Willie Wells reached base via the
Baltimore chop, Drysdale decked Jose Cruz with a pitch.  He responded with
a two-run double, but Wynn - playing first for Davis - popped up, and the
Astros didn't score any more in that inning.  They did score 3 in the fourth to
erase a 3-2 deficit, and the Astros wound up winning 6-4.  They threatened
to do even better the next game, as Tommy John would be their opponent.
Walt Alston met privately with the starters at 6 A.M. before the game.
"I think I know how we can beat the Baltimore Chop," he explained.
"How can we do that," Pee Wee Reese wondered.
"They're going to be beating the ball down, so we've got to be ready to
throw on the run.  Steve will start at first to dig balls out of the dirt, but I
want all of you to practice your barehanded picks and throws.  We'll go with
a shallow infield almost the whole time."
The plan almost worked.  Mike Scott allowed only two runs through eight
innings, but the Astros got three; two of them scored when Bill Doran
pushed a bunt into the outfield in the fourth with runners on second and
third.  3-2 Astros was the final, with Dave Smith earning another save.  The
Dodgers scored a victory in the first game of the twin bill Sunday, as Nolan
Ryan walked five, three of whom scored in a 4-1 Dodger win.  Fernando
Valenzuela lost the second game 4-2 to Don Sutton, however, as the Dodgers'
thirteen stolen bases in the series proved to not be enough.
"We're mostly a power team," remarked Ron Cey.  "Jackie and, when he
plays, Maury Wills are our only real speed demons, though a couple other
plays can do it now and then.  We're sunk in a place like the Astrodome.  I
guess that's why they're so successful there."  Indeed, it seems that
basestealing teams give them the most trouble in the dome.  The 'Stros
swiped 12 bases in 16 attempts, giving them 230 on the season.
Standings after these weekend series:
A.L.East
Team                     W           L           GB
New York                68        42          --
Cleveland               65        46          3.5
Detroit                 64        46           4
Boston                  64        47          4.5
Baltimore               59        52         9.5
Toronto                 43         69        25.5
Washington              39         73          28
A.L.West
Oaksaselphia            63         48          --
Minnesota               61         48            1
Chicago                 59         53          4.5
Kansas City             57         54          6.5
California              57         56            8
Milwaukee               45         66           17
Seattle                 32         78         31.5
N.L.East
Chicago          57         53                --
Philadelphia     58         54                --
St. Louis        58         54                --
Pittsburgh       56         56                2
Montreal         53         56               3.5
New York         48         64               10
N.L.West
Brookangeles     66          46               --
Cincinnati       66           47              0.5
San Francisco    65          46               0.5
Boswaukta        54           56               11
Houston          50          61               17.5
San Diego        36          75                29.5
--
Doug Fowler: dxf12@po.CWRU.edu  : Me, age 4 & now: "Mommys and Daddys & other
Ever wonder if, after Casey : relatives have to give lots of hugs & love
missed the 3rd strike in the poem: & support, 'cause Heaven is just a great
he ran to first and made it?     : big hug that lasts forever and ever!!!"
From: ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary The Burgermeister Huckabay)
Subject: Bill James Player Rating Book 1993.
Organization: Harold Brooks Duck L'Orange Club, Ltd.
Lines: 26
(Dave 'This has never happened to me before' Kirsch) writes:
>  Correction: "Nied was the only player identified in this book as a grade A
>prospect who was exposed to the draft..", according to Bill James in the
>'Stop the Presses' section preceding his player evaluations. He valued Nied
>at $21, and said that Nied's value does not increase significantly as a
>result of his selection (although he did catch a break getting away from the
>strongest rotation in baseball).
I thought Bill James' latest book completely and totally sucked.  I bought
it, but will not purchase anything of his ever again without THOROUGHLY
looking at it first.  What tripe.
The book is inconsistent, and filled with selective analysis.  James
claims to be looking forward, and then makes some absolutely bizarre
statements of value.  Not only that, but I got the impression he
probably glanced at the book for about an hour before he put his name
on it.
To say I was disappointed is a grand understatement.
--
*     Gary Huckabay      * Kevin Kerr: The Al Feldstein of the mid-90's! *
* "A living argument for * If there's anything we love more than a huge  *
*  existence of parallel * .sig, it's someone quoting 100 lines to add   *
*       universes."      * 3 or 4 new ones.  And consecutive posts, too. *
From: jaufrecht@pomona.claremont.edu
Subject: Dodgers newsletter?
Article-I.D.: pomona.0096A95C.A0CBE0E8
Reply-To: jaufrecht@pomona.claremont.edu
Organization: Pomona College
Lines: 3
Could somebody please tell me if there is a Dodgers newsletter on the Net,
and if so how to subscribe?  Thanks,
Joel
From: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu (David J.)
Subject: MARLINS WIN! MARLINS WIN!
Article-I.D.: usenet.C51Buv.KLn
Reply-To: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Lines: 8
Nntp-Posting-Host: poppy.journalism.indiana.edu
I only caught the tail end of this one on ESPN.  Does anyone have a report?
(Look at all that Teal!!!!  BLEAH!!!!!!!!!)
--
David J.(dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu)*****Blue Riddle Productions 1993
*-------------------------------It's on.--------------------------------*
***"THE RAP IS AN ART EP" is coming out on tape -- this time for real.***
*------------------------E-mail me for the 411.-------------------------*
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Subject: Re: NO JOKE: ROCKIES HAVE ATTENDANCE RECORD!!!!
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Lines: 21
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
NNTP-Posting-Host: g215a-1.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
In article <1993Apr2.184338.18205@dvorak.amd.com> twhite@mozart.amd.com (Tom
White) writes:
>    The highest single-game attendance was Game 5 of the 1959 World Series,
> October 6, at the LA Coliseum.  White Sox over Dodgers, 1-0.
>
>    Gate?  Officially 92,706.
>
>    Largest regular-season game?  78,672, again in LA, for the first
> game in the City of Angels -- Opening Day, April 18, 1958 (home opener,
> anyway).
>
>    The Rockies might really nail the record.
>
>    The record attendance for a doubleheader is larger, but since dh's are
> all but nonexistent nowadays, why bother listing it...
Wasn't there an 85,000 New York at Cleveland game in the late 40's?
jhon rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
prediction for 1993:  Marlins: 70 wins, Rockies: 50 wins
From: gt0523e@prism.gatech.EDU (Michael Andre Mule)
Subject: Re: Tickets etc..
Article-I.D.: hydra.91513
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 39
Let's look at the effects of inflation on 1930's superstars' salaries.
I read once that the Babe made $80,000 one year and that was about as good
as it got for him.
Let's assume he made that in 1928 (I'm not sure of the figures, but I know
I'm in the ballpark--pun intended). :-)
Today, assuming a 4% yearly inflation rate, which is an understatement if
not accurate, his measly $80,000 salary would be worth.
FV = $80,000 x (1+4%)^(1993-1928)
= $80,000 x (1.04)^65
= just over $1,000,000.
Assuming inflation is average of around 5%.
FV = $80,000 x (1+5%)^65
= almost 2,000,000.
(I didn't crunch these numbers beforehand).
These numbers might lead one to believe that today's players are slightly
overpaid.  The Babe appears to have made then what today's average to above
average players make now.  Perfectly accurate salary, year of salary, and
average inflation rate would make this analysis more accurate, but I don`t
think I'm off by much.
Chop Chop
Michael Mule'
--
Michael Andre Mule
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0523e
Internet: gt0523e@prism.gatech.edu
From: khansen@staff.tc.umn.edu (Kevin Hansen)
Subject: Re: Scott Erickson
Nntp-Posting-Host: x239-16.psych.umn.edu
Organization: Minnesota Twin Family Study - Univerity of Minnesota
Lines: 38
In article <12718@news.duke.edu> fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush) writes:
>Path: news1.cis.umn.edu!umn.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!concert!duke!news.duke.edu!bchm.biochem.duke.edu
>From: fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush)
>Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
>Subject: Scott Erickson
>Message-ID: <12718@news.duke.edu>
>Date: 5 Apr 93 18:21:18 GMT
>Sender: news@news.duke.edu
>Organization: Biochemistry
>Lines: 13
>Nntp-Posting-Host: bruchner.biochem.duke.edu
>USA Today reports that he may be going on the DL
>(arm pains of an unspecified nature).
>
>Further news would be appreciated.
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>Eric Roush		fierkelab@	bchm.biochem.duke.edu
>"I am a Marxist, of the Groucho sort"
>Grafitti, Paris, 1968
>
>TANSTAAFL! (although the Internet comes close.)
>--------------------------------------------------------
Erickson did go on the 15 day DL with a pulled muscle in his left side (near
rib cage).  He is on until 4/18/93.
No news as to who the Twins will bring up.
----------------------------------------------
Kevin Hansen
MN Twin Family Study - University of Minnesota
(612)626-7224
khansen@staff.tc.umn.edu
----------------------------------------------
Contact: University of Minnesota Women's Basketball
"Theory guides, experiment decides" - Izaak M. Kolthoff
From: brian@meaddata.com (Brian Curran)
Subject: Re: ESPN/TBS GAMES?
Article-I.D.: meaddata.1pptv1$mgb
Distribution: world
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Lines: 13
NNTP-Posting-Host: taurus.meaddata.com
In article <05APR93.13661642.0023@lafibm.lafayette.edu>, VB30@lafibm.lafayette.edu (VB30) writes:
|> Does anyone know where I can get a list of nationally televised
|> games, such as ESPN and TBS?  I live on the East coast and I'd
|> like to catch as many Giants games as I possibly can!
This list is published every week in Baseball Weekly.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Curran                 Mead Data Central              brian@meaddata.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"That was not swimming.  That was bathing."
- A German reporter, after watching 1972 Olympic superstar swimmer
Mark Spitz get badly beaten during a 1991 comeback race
Subject: Re: Finnally, the Phils have support
From: f67709907@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin)
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona
Nntp-Posting-Host: violet
Nntp-Posting-User: f67709907
Lines: 54
In article <C4x9xA.9Ew@news.udel.edu>, philly@brahms.udel.edu (Robert C Hite) writes:
> In article <4fjQpAu00WBLM1z50R@andrew.cmu.edu> Anuj Gupta <ag4i+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>Everytime I have written on the net about the possibility of a
>>successfuls season by the Philadelphia Phillies, I have gotten ripped
>>from everybody from Pittsburgh to Calcutta.  But if all the
>>ignoramouses, care to look at this week's Baseball Weekly, they will see
>>that I'm not the only one who considers then as division winners - the
>>rest of the most respected baseball writers in the country do as well.
>
> And these guys certainly know what they're talking about.  Every
> bozo from Pittsburgh to Calcutta will just have to sit up and take
> notice!  This Phils team in an offensive juggernaut which is going
> to score a LOT of runs and put up a TON of hits on the scoreboard.
> You people out there are going to be sick of seeing PHILLIES
> scattered all over every offensive league leaders category in the
> newspaper.  These guys hit .304 through Spring Training..well before
> getting no hit yesterday.  But they had a plane to catch 45 minutes
> after the game ended, so they're minds weren't in it.
Up to this point, I really thought this had been written by a
pro-SDCN, anti-mediot poster blessed with a certain talent for
sarcasm and biting remarks.  Somebody like me, for instance.
The lurid overstatements were obviously intended to humiliate the
original poster.
> Now, on top of the great offense, they have a slightly above average
> pitching staff which has a lot of youth and promise.  If the
> pitchers do their part, and Mitch keeps blown saves to a minimum,
> look for another pennant out in left field at the Vet...
>
> Robert C. Hite
>
> P.S. Michael Jack Schmidt for COMMISSIONER
But then the scales were lifted from my eyes.  Looks like Robert is
really being serious.  Oh, well.
I compare the performance of the 1992 Phillies with the 1987 edition,
which had outstanding run producers at every position except SS, yet
finished at a frustrating sub-.500 level.  The 1987 folks didn't
ever amount to anything, and neither will the 1992 squad, IMHO.
Any other parallels with previous years' teams for this year's
editions (in the style of 1993 Braves = 1971 Orioles)?
--
Greg "Mockingbird" Franklin   "Interracial mixing encompasses a lot lot more
f67709907@ccit.arizona.edu      than mingling between G7 races." -- robohen
Things One Wishes to See
The moon, flowers, the face of a dear one.
Well-performed No.
The furnishings of a tea cottage.
The real thoughts of one's lover--and her letter.
All famous places.
From: u96_msopher@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu
Subject: With a surge in the last two weeks...
Lines: 24
Organization: Stevens Institute Of Technology
Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, lend me your ears for but a moment,
The National Legue Eastern Division Champions will be the...
Philadelphia Phillies
I one hundred and ten percent guarantee!!!
Chamberlain Hollins Dykstra Incaviglia Jackson Williams
Daulton Greene Kruk Mulholland Rivera Thompson Duncan
Watch us soar in 1993!
Subject: quick way to tell if your local beat writer is dumb.
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite)
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken
Lines: 10
jayson stark (i trhink that's him) fits perfectly in this category.
anyone who writes "dean palmer has 2 homers  - at this pace, he'll
have 324 home runs!" should be shot.
if, at the end of april, he has 11, and anyone writes "at this
pace, he'll have 100+ homers!" they shouldbe shot too.
- bob gaj
Subject: Re: Mike Francesa's 1993 Predictions
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite)
<1993Apr2.171819.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> <1993Apr5.123904.17806@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> <1993Apr5.162835.1003@Princeton.EDU>
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken
Lines: 9
hmm - i thought francesca's predictions ALWAYS hovered at or below
.500, especially in the nfl.  (not counting college football
bowl day).
he's a nice analyst for explaining past tense, and for mapping out
what plays teams might do - but for predicting the future, he only
looks good whne compared to russo.
- bob gaj
Subject: Re: Finnally, the Phils have support
From: kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu (Dave 'Almost Cursed the Jays' Kirsch)
Organization: Li'l Carlos and the Hormones
Nntp-Posting-Host: staff.tc.umn.edu
Lines: 18
In article <C4yxMJ.BLE@news.udel.edu> philly@bach.udel.edu (Robert C Hite) writes:
[Most of tirade deleted .. I have an editor and know how to use it]
>
>Okay we've been conservative and added about 18 wins so far.  Now
>we're adding about 4 more wins thanks to the expansion teams...
>Okay, thats 22 wins.  Lesse dipshit math genuious, 72 + 22 = 94
>Hmmm... I think thats good enough to win the worse division in
>baseball?
>
>Next time, before you say something foolish, get a clue first!
Either this is an example of *great* sarcasm or I'm really, really worried.
--
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch      Blue Jays - Do it again in '93
kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu                        New .. quotes out of context!
"Not to beat a dead horse, but it's been a couple o' weeks .. this
disappoints me..punishments..discharges..jackhammering.." - Stephen Lawrence
From: mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer)
Subject: Re: Young Catchers
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Lines: 143
In article <7862@blue.cis.pitt.edu> genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes:
>mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) said:
>
>>I meant that one should not let the exception make the rule.
>
>It's not an exception.  Good players come up young; most players who come
>up young will be good.  This has always been the rule.
Are most players who come up young always good when they're young, or
later?
>Worse: it's not a "shift".  This is the way it has *always* been.  Several
>detailed studies of this have been done, and they've all shown that players
>aren't coming up any younger or older than in the past, and they aren't
>playing any more or less in the minors than they used to.  The only thing
>that shifts is our memories of the "good old days" :-).
Damn.  I was afraid you would say that!
>
>But all after the fact, which makes it *not* applicable to the current
>discussion, which is about how you decide whether to play the rookie who
>hasn't "established himself" in the majors over the mediocre veteran.  The
>Padres played Santiago that year because they clearly had nobody else worth
>playing.
Well, perhaps if the Braves had no one else worth playing this year it
would be Lopez in there.  But they do have others worth playing, at
least in *their* opinion.  And I happen to agree.
>
>>>>Both of these young men were highly touted defensive catchers,
>>>>expected to be among the best ever in baseball.
>
>Not by rec.sport.baseball consensus.  That may sound like an incredibly
>arrogant comment, but I've found that the SDCN consensus (when one exists)
>is right far more often than the media consensus or the opinions of "baseball
>people" affiliated with MLB.
I can believe that.  I'm a newbie here, so I'll take your word.  But
Alomar *is* a fine defensive catcher, which was my statement above.
That is a solid reason for bringing him up at a tender age, as long
as they feel he can also hit a bit.  Lopez does not have such a
consensus about his defensive prowess, and imho that is enough to
give him that dreaded "seasoning".
>
>>I don't know "who knows".  I suppose the same people (or similar) who
>>"know" he will be better than some other catcher.  These are, of
>>course, just differing opinions.  I read that his arm is not that
>>strong (I suppose somewhere there is some measurement of SB ratios)
>>and that he is still learning to call a game.  That latter skill may
>>be difficult to project on someone without an intimate knowledge of
>>his performance, but it is a tangible skill.
>
>I disagree, in that I don't think it *is* a _tangible_ skill, any more than
>leadership is.  I don't deny that it is a *real* skill, and that some catchers
>may be much better than others at it, but I really don't see any way that we
>could ever know who they are.  Nichols's Law of Catcher Defense is eerily
>accurate far too often for me to take defensive assessments of catchers very
>seriously.
Sorry.  New.  Don't know Nichols' Law.  Don't believe in catchers'
era.  But I am interested in pitchers' eras with different catchers.
Any info on that?
>
>
>Absolutely.  The evidence is piling up, year after year.  The only other
>alternative is that the Braves really don't *know* that their young players
>are, on average, better than their current starters.  I'm not ruling out that
>kind of gross incompetence, but I think the salary-schedule explanation is
>more charitable.
In other words, we know more than they do, so the only logic behind
a different decision than we would make must be financial.  I presume
we feel this way about other franchises than Atlanta, no?
>
>Consider: we *know* that the Braves are about the strongest team in baseball
>right now, even with Olson and Lemke and Nixon and Bream in the lineup.  They
>have as good a chance of repeating as champs this year as any team ever has.
>It actually makes some sense to say "rather than making our team marginally
>better this year by bringing up the young studs and dumping the elderly, let's
>go ahead and compete this year with what we have, and then bring up the studs
>only as we *have* to, so that we'll still have them under reserve three years
>from now and beyond when the current team will be collecting pensions."
>
>Is it fair to the young players?  No.  Does it make organizational sense?
>I think it does.
Well if it does make organizational sense, one can hardly fault them
for their decisions.  I mean, please don't tell me how to run my
business.  Especially when I'm being successful.
>
> C:	I could make it 107 or 108 wins if you let me bring up Lopez.
>
>>S:	Listen, Bobby.  I'd like to.  But the way I see it, if he hits
>>	the big club this year we'll be paying mega-arbitration bucks
>>	down the road in a couple of years and there's no way I want
>>	to do that.
>
>...and continues with
>
>	We can win without him, and then _keep_ winning next year with him.
>	How's that?
I'm sure you could be right.  You could also be smoking some illegal
substance.
(Hey.  That's a joke.  Don't get offended.  Please.)
>
>Hey, I'd love to be wrong about this.  If you think it's unlikely, I'd love
>to know why.  Don't cite anybody's innate ethical rectitude, though, unless
>you know them personally.
>
>
Well, I can't cite anyone's ethical rectitude because I don't know
what it means.  :)
But again, if it makes organizational sense, then so be it.  Baseball
is a business, and if there is a solid business reason for keeping
Lopez on the farm then that's what the Braves *should* do.
I happen to believe that it's a baseball decision.  While you from
your armchair may disagee, I don't.  I think there is a lot of
evidence to suggest the decision they made.  I predicted it among
large guffaws from several at the start of spring training.  I
think it is a very *normal* decision to have made.  It is certainly
more reversible than to have started Lopez in the bigs and have
released one of their catchers.  Sure, it may be conservative.  It
may also be logical.  I don't know what ethics have to do with it.
Seems like pretty good common sense to me.
--	The Beastmaster
--
Mark Singer
mss@netcom.com
From: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu (David J.)
Subject: Re: 1993 NL East Champion PHILLIES
Article-I.D.: usenet.C51J5C.AMx
Reply-To: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Lines: 12
Nntp-Posting-Host: poppy.journalism.indiana.edu
Robert C Hite writes
> Here are the projected lineups, benches, rotation and bullpen for
> the 1993 National League East Champion Philadelphia Phillies:
I think the only Phillies in effect here are Philly Blunts.  Of course, if this
all becomes true, I'll be the first to smoke one myself.
--
David J.(dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu)*****Blue Riddle Productions 1993
*-------------------------------It's on.--------------------------------*
***"THE RAP IS AN ART EP" is coming out on tape -- this time for real.***
*------------------------E-mail me for the 411.-------------------------*
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Mike Francesa's 1993 Predictions
Originator: news@nimaster
Nntp-Posting-Host: crux.princeton.edu
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Lines: 24
In article <1993Apr5.123904.17806@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> dick1@herahera.cc.bellcore.com (vaughn,richard) writes:
>In article <1993Apr2.171819.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>, pjtier01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>> In article <1993Apr2.133703.28131@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, dick1@herahera.cc.bellcore.com (vaughn,richard) writes:
>>> Mike Francesa mentioned his '93 baseball picks in
>>> passing on the radio yesterday.  Being that this is Francesa
>>> talkin', the opinions are well worth consideration.
>> Indeed!  After all, he was the wizard foresaw the Year of the Big East in the
>> NCAA Tournament!  Unfortunatly, none of those teams made it into the Sweet
>> Sixteen, much less New Orleans.
Neither did he!
>Overall Mike Francesa has an *outstanding* prediction record.
Overall?  How do you figure?
>Ignore him at your own peril.
So far my radio hasn't exploded from not being tuned to 660...
Roger
From: king@cogsci.ucsd.edu (Jonathan King)
Subject: A Move we won't see (was Why The RedFlops Can(but won't) win.....)
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Lines: 14
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.ucsd.edu
Summary: it would be tragic if ted simmons were to pick up mo vaughn
stwombly@cs.ulowell.edu (Steve Twombly) writes:
>1.  Mo Vaughn CAN hit .400 in the spring.
>1b. Mo Vaughn CAN Only hit .230 during the season.
Excellent point.  I hope to God that Ted Simmons doesn't get the weird
idea of trading for the guy.  And if he does, he had better not
include Jeff King in the deal.  Oh God--what if he traded Zane Smith
and Jeff King for Vaughn and Greg Blosser?  It would be worse than The
Nichols Curse!
Hmm, I guess that doesn't sound sincere enough.  Oh well, at least I
tried...
jking
From: mjones@fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Mike Jones)
Subject: Re: My Belated Predictions (NL)
Reply-To: mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
Organization: IBM AIX/ESA Development, Kingston NY
Lines: 34
mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) writes:
>In article <Apr.4.19.42.08.1993.12176@pilot.njin.net> gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite) writes:
>>javier lopez is a better catcher than greg olson.
>But has there ever in the history of baseball been a 22-year-old (or
>younger) *rookie* catcher who compared favorably among all league
>catchers in terms of defense and brought a .247 bat?  Wasn't it
>Sandy Alomar who was supposed to be that good in his rookie year?
>Not.  Wasn't it Benito Santiago who was supposed to be that good
>in his rookie year?  Not.
Hrm. Sandy Alomar, 24 year old rookie: 132 games, .290/.326/.418. Threw
out a few baserunners. Benito Santiago, 22 year old rookie: 146 games,
.300/.324/.467. He threw out a few baserunners, too. Ivan Rodriguez,
*20* year old rookies: 88 games, .264/.276/.354. Didn't exactly suck
behind the plate.
>I can continue this thread with the others mentioned, but you get
>the point.  You and others seem to be so quick to dismiss the
>seasoned veterans in favor of the hot *young* rookies.  Perhaps -
>just perhaps - the management team of the pennant-winning Braves
>knows something more than you do.  And perhaps what they know is
>that very, very few 21- and 22-year old rookies come up to the majors
>and make an impact.
True. Which only makes it more important to realize when you have one of the
few. Lopez' season last year, adjusted to major league equivalencies, was
.306/.330/.472, 15 HRs. How bad does he have to be behind the plate for that
to not be better than Olson's .238/.316/.328?
Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
I would not admire hitting against [Ryne] Duren, because if he ever hit you
in the head you might be in the past tense.
- Casey Stengel
From: rdetweil@boi.hp.com (Richard Detweiler)
Subject: Re: ESPN and Expansion
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett Packard
Lines: 33
In article <C5109u.7C0@ucdavis.edu> itlm013@dale.ucdavis.edu (Donnie Trump) writes:
>I was watching Peter Gammons on ESPN last night, and he's got me a little
>confused.
>
>While talking about expansion, he started mentioning people who might benefit
>from the fringe players they'll be facing: McGriff hitting 50 home runs,
>Sheffield getting 150 rbi's, and Glavine winning 25 games.  This was,
>of course, all in reference to what happened the *other* times that baseball
>has expanded (early 60's, late 60's, late 70's).
>
>What really confused me, though, was the mention of *AL* players who would
>do well next year.  Specifically, Roger Clemens winning 25 games, and the
>likes of McGwire and Gonzalez hitting 50 home runs.
>
>My question is:  How in the hell will the Rockies/Marlins help the AL?  The
>last time I looked, there wasn't a lot of talent jumping leagues.  Did I
>miss something?
>
>Dennis Cleary
>dfcleary@ucdavis.edu
>
I wondered the same thing.  When he first mentioned it, I thought he was
just making a mistake but then he said it over and over.  And then in the
examples from other years, he gave stats for players from both leagues even
when only one league expanded.
So (since stats *NEVER* lie :-) ), I guess there is an effect on both leagues
because the expansion draft takes talent from both leagues equally making
every team in both leagues dilute their major league talent by calling up
players that, normally, they would not have had there not been expansion.
Make sense?
From: boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell)
Subject: Rockies opening day cast
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Lines: 34
Here is the Colorado Rockies openning day cast:
Pitchers
--------
Scott Aldred (L)  MLB Totals  31 games, 6-14, 5.08 ERA, 0 saves
Andy Ashby (R)                18 games, 2-8,  6.72 ERA, 0 saves
Willie Blair (R)              67 games, 10-15,4.57 ERA, 0 saves
Butch Henry (L)               28 games, 6-9,  4.02 ERA, 0 saves
Darren Holmes (R)             95 games, 5-9,  4.10 ERA, 9 saves
David Neid (R)                 6 games, 3-0,  1.17 ERA, 0 saves
Jeff Parrett (R)             341 games, 46-30,3.65 ERA,21 saves
Steve Reed (R)                18 games, 1-0,  2.30 ERA, 0 saves
Bruce Ruffin (L)             223 games, 43-64,4.31 ERA, 3 saves
Bryn Smith (R)               354 games,106-90,3.44 ERA, 6 saves
Gary Wayne (L)               147 games, 8-8,  3.44 ERA, 3 saves
The rest
--------
Joe Girardi (C)              304 games, .262, 3 HR, 70 RBI, 10 SB
Danny Sheaffer (C)            32 games, .110, 1 HR,  5 RBI,  0 SB
Freddie Benavides (SS)        98 games, .246, 1 HR, 20 RBI,  1 SB
Vinny Castilla (SS)           21 games, .238, 0 HR,  1 RBI,  0 SB
Andres Galarraga (1B)        942 games, .267,116HR,472 RBI, 59 SB
Charlie Hayes (3B)           530 games, .250,48 HR,219 RBI, 13 SB
Jim Tatum (3B)                 5 games, .125, 0 HR,  0 RBI,  0 SB
Eric Young (2B)               49 games, .258, 1 HR, 11 RBI,  6 SB
Dante Bichette (OF)          424 games, .254,38 HR,176 RBI, 40 SB
Daryl Boston (OF)            882 games, .250,65 HR,224 RBI, 97 SB
Jerald Clark (OF)            339 games, .237,28 HR,126 RBI,  5 SB
Alex Cole (OF)               290 games, .283, 0 HR, 49 RBI, 83 SB
Gerald Young (OF)            605 games, .246, 3 HR,109 RBI,153 SB
Dale Murphy (OF)            15 seasons, .266, 398 HR, 1259 RBI
Subject: Rockies and Rangers fans, Please help me
From: valentin+@pitt.edu (Shawn V. Hernan)
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
X-XXMessage-ID: <A7E61E0C2E01FE53@cadet-blue.cis.pitt.edu>
X-XXDate: Mon, 5 Apr 93 22:34:04 GMT
Lines: 12
Greetings baseballers,
I have a choice of two more or less identical conferences to
attend, one in
Denver, and one in Dallas, both May 24-28. Could some kind Rockies
or Rangers
(they DO play in the Dallas area, right?) fans please let me know if
there
are home dates for that week. I'd love to catch a game.
Thanks,
Shawn
From: admiral@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Steve C Liu)
Subject: Opening Day of 1990?
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
Lines: 30
Distribution: usa
Expires: 5/9/93
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
Summary: Baltimore O's not looking stellar
The O's just lost to the Rangers a few minutes ago I was not too happy about
the pitching of Rick Sutcliffe (6 runs in 6 innings, 5 in the 3?) This puts
me in remembering the 1990 O's season. After '89 we didn't do much over
winter and we wound up in 5th. Now I know that Mussina, McDonald, and Rhodes
are better pitching prospects than Ballard and Milacki but are any other
Oriole fans scared out there?
Admiral Steve C. Liu
P.S. Other scores as of now.
Cincy over Montreal, 2-1 I think
FLORIDA IS LEADING LA 6-3 IN THE 8TH!
Braves vs. Cubs, 1-0 in the 8th. Futility of Cubs batting haunting them.
Yanks beat the Tribe I believe.
____________________________________________________________________________
|Admiral Steve C. Liu          Internet Address: admiral@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu|
|Commander-In-Chief of the Security Division of the Pi Club - Earth Chapter|
|    President of the Earth Chapter of the Pi Club - Founded April 1990    |
|1993 World Champions  - Baltimore Orioles - Why Not? - Series in the Yards|
|         1992-1993 Stanley Cup Champions -  Washington Capitals           |
| "Committee for the Liberation and Intergration of Terrifying Organisms   |
|   and their Rehabilitation Into Society, the only problem is that the    |
|   abbreviation is CLITORIS." from the "Polymorph" episode of Red Dwarf   |
|*****The Bangles are the greatest female rock band that ever existed!*****|
|   This sig has been brought to you by... Frungy! The Sport of Kings!     |
|"My God man, drilling holes through his head is not the answer!" Dr. McCoy|
|"You know, Susanna Hoffs has a really nice ass." - comment by M. Flanagan |
|  The Pi Club - Creating the largest .signatures for the past nine months |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush)
Subject: Re: Wohlers to minors
Organization: Biochemistry
Lines: 33
Nntp-Posting-Host: bruchner.biochem.duke.edu
In article <91387@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccastmm@prism.gatech.EDU (Mike Marler)
writes:
>In <1993Apr2.224251.21212@rigel.econ.uga.edu> shannonr@moe.coe.uga.edu
(Shannon Reeves Cntr. for Ed. Tech) writes:
>At times it "seems" as if no others in the bullpen are used by Cox for middle
>relief.  Marvin only pitched 7 innings this spring.  He is supposed to be
>over his surgery, and I am wondering if Cox is still trying to decide who to
>use as middle relief and thinks that Marvin might be his better choice
>early in the season.  I would immediately give McMchael many chances to
>pitch after spring and then use Bedrock and Freeman after that.  I am
wondering
>how he intends to use Howell.  (Whatever happened to Senior Smoke?)
-------------
Do you mean Juan Berenguer?  He was traded for Mark Davis in the middle
of last season.  Exchanged one stiff for another, as Berenguer hadn't
come back from his injury in 91.  I think he's retired now.
Anyhow, as middle relief, Marvin ain't that bad.  He at least can
pitch a couple of innings or do mop-up work.  I don't know much
about McMichael (was he the Mexican League guy?), but
everybody else in the pen is a 1 inning man, except maybe
Mercker.
-------------------------------------------------------
Eric Roush		fierkelab@	bchm.biochem.duke.edu
"I am a Marxist, of the Groucho sort"
Grafitti, Paris, 1968
TANSTAAFL! (although the Internet comes close.)
--------------------------------------------------------
From: "Dennis G Parslow" <p00421@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Minnesota Pitching
In-Reply-To: <4fjvBVy00iUz86yo5_@andrew.cmu.edu>
Nntp-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.4)
Lines: 36
>DATE:   Mon, 5 Apr 1993 00:19:45 -0400
>FROM:   Karim Edvard Ahmed <ka0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
>
>Since I haven't been able to keep up with baseball much this season, I
>have a few questions about my favorite team, the Minnesota Twins:
>
>1.  How good does their rotation look?  The last I heard, the order is
>Tapani, Erikson, Mahomes, Banks, and some guy I've never heard of.
>(sounds pretty pathetic to me)
Well, maybe it will be.  Banks is a 24 year-old prospect who "hasn't
matured as quickly as they would have liked.  Mahomes is a 22 year-old
who is very highly touted.  Tapani and Erickson are also young, and
have looked very good this spring.  The last spot was between Jim
Deshaies, formerly of Houston and S.D. and Mike Trombley.  Deshaies
hasn't looked very good this spring, so I believe that the spot has
gone to Trombley, although they hadn't wanted 3 starters this unproven.
I personally believe very highly in Mahomes and Trombley.
>
>2.  Who is playing short and third?
Well, Scott Leius is the shortstop.  He played mostly 3B last year, but
was a SS in the minors, and moved back after Gagne left to K.C.  3B is
split (maybe) between Pagliarulo, who has had a great spring, and Terry
Jorgenson, a good looking kid who has languished in Portland for 3
years.  I'm not sure how the time will be divided, but they seem to be
happy with what they have here.  I like Jorgenson, but I fear they
might give too much time to Pags.
>3.  How's Winfield doing?
Sorry, can't help you here.
Dennis
From: kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu (Dave 'Almost Cursed the Jays' Kirsch)
Subject: Re: My Belated Predictions (NL)
Nntp-Posting-Host: staff.tc.umn.edu
Organization: Li'l Carlos and the Hormones
Lines: 26
Well, as long as folks are sharing their esteemed wisdom, Li'l Karnak sez:
AL West		AL East 	NL West		NL East
1) Chicago	1) Toronto	1) Atlanta	1) St. Louis
2) Texas	2) New York	2) Cincinnati	2) Montreal
3) Minnesota	3) Baltimore	3) Houston	3) New York
4) Oakland 	4) Boston	4) Los Angeles	4) Philadelphia
5) Seattle	5) Detroit	5) San Diego	5) Pittsburgh
6) Kansas City	6) Milwaukee	6) San Fran. 	6) Chicago
7) California	7) Cleveland	7) Colorado	7) Florida
Details to follow later. Pick it apart as you like.
Also, if anyone is still taking entries for prediction pools/contests,
could you snag mine and add it to the list? Thanks.
I'm just glad it's opening day; makes up a little bit for the gloom/doom
weather patterns here.
Lundy,
--
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch      Blue Jays - Do it again in '93
kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu                        New .. quotes out of context!
"Not to beat a dead horse, but it's been a couple o' weeks .. this
disappoints me..punishments..discharges..jackhammering.." - Stephen Lawrence
From: mmontgom@liberty.uc.wlu.edu (Matthew R. Montgomery)
Subject: Re: With a surge in the last two weeks...
Organization: Washington & Lee University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Lines: 15
: 			Watch us soar in 1993!
Shouldn't that be 'Watch us stoned in 1993!'? :)
or maybe 'Watch us suck in 1993!'
or even 'Watch us sore in 1993!'
________________________________________________________________________
Matt
Montgomery              'No, really I *like* the Phillies'
________________________________________________________________________
From: kshus@schunix.uucp (Christopher Shustakg)
Subject: Where can I find baseball statistics ??
Organization: SCHUNIX Public Access Unix for Worcester County, MA, USA
Lines: 7
I am interested in uncovering statistics on Boston Red Sox players from
March 1992 - present.  I want to look at changes in batting average, hits,
multi-hit games, runs, stolen bases, and on base % during
every game.  Where can
I find this information?  Do any sports magazines log this info or do I
have to go directly to the ball club?
Thanks for the info.  Kip
Organization: University of Maine System
From: <IO21087@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Subject: Grateful Dead?
Lines: 15
Being a baseball fan and a fan of the above mentioned band I was
wondering if anyone could clue me in on whether the Dead (or members
of) sang the national anthem at todays Giant opener?
I would imagine that it is a bit too early for anyone to know, but
an answer would be greatly appreciated.
Curious,
Robert
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
ROBERT MARGESSON                                   UMAINE HOCKEY
156 PARK ST. C5                                     BLACK BEARS
ORONO, ME 04473                                   1993 NCAA CHAMPS
(207)866-7342                                         42-1-2
From: niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gord Niguma)
Subject: G. Williams sent down; Yanks win AL East
Nntp-Posting-Host: ug.cs.dal.ca
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Distribution: na
Lines: 17
Well, it really isn't this cut and dry, but as a Jay fan the thing I feared
worst has happened. The Yanks sent down Williams G and are going to start
Williams B in CF.
I also believe they kept Wickman and Millitello in their rotation, which is
much nicer than that Kaminiecki and Mike Witt combo I thought they'd throw
out their to the slaughterhouse because of their "experience". Granted, Witt
"might" be good, but I think that they used rationale to keep the youngsters
up and not given the job to Witt because he was a good pitcher and has
experience.
The Yanks are showing that they are taking positive strides forwards; the
Jays with the loss of Dave Stewart are looking at gigantic holes in their
pitching staff.
The Orioles should also be there in the end.....
Gord Niguma
(to salvage the season,
let JJ Olerud win MVP)
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Subject: Re: Bo was a good player, you shorts (plus idiots)
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 35
In article <1993Apr5.101636.1@otago.ac.nz> guilford@otago.ac.nz writes:
>In article <1993Apr4.030934.23187@Princeton.EDU>, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>> In article <1993Apr4.133620.1@otago.ac.nz> guilford@otago.ac.nz writes:
BO JACKSON 1963
1988 KCR    437  106  16   4  23   28   29   7  .253   67  .243  .288  .455
1989 KCR    517  134  19   5  33   41   27  10  .274   92  .259  .314  .507
1990 KCR    405  110  17   1  27   44   16   9  .286   77  .272  .343  .519
1991 CWS     71   16   3   0   3   12    0   1  .240   10  .225  .337  .394
MAJ      1430  366  55  10  86  125   72  27  .270  246  .256  .316  .489
MAJ       598  153  23   4  36   52   30  11
This is what Jackson looked like in 88-91, with everything converted
to a neutral park, on the basis of run production. His equivalent
average started at .253 in 88, was up to .274 in 89 and 286 in 90. So
let us say he had established, in his last two seasons, a .280 level
of play.
That is good. Very good, in fact. But it probably doesn't make the top
ten in the league. The 10th best EQA in the AL in 1992 was Dave
Winfield's .296; Thomas was first at .350. First in the NL was Bonds,
an incroyable .378; tenth was Bip Roberts, .297. But .280 is better
than any season in the past five years by Joe Carter; it is about what
Mattingly had in 1988 (.285); what Felix Jose had the last two years;
just ahead of Time Raines' five-year average; better than Ryan
Klesko's MLEs.
He got more attention from the media than was warranted from his
baseball playing, though; his hype was a lot better than his hitting.
That is the basis for the net.comments about him being overrated. The
media would have you beleive he was a great hitter. I think he was a
good, maybe very good hitter. He was IMO, something like the 30th best
hitter in the majors.
Clay D.
From: kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu (Dave 'Almost Cursed the Jays' Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Young Catchers
Nntp-Posting-Host: staff.tc.umn.edu
Organization: Li'l Carlos and the Hormones
Lines: 60
In article <mssC50DFw.71u@netcom.com> mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) writes:
>
>At age 23 Alomar had a brilliant rookie year.  True, he was limited
>by injuries in his sophomore season, but his numbers both that yaer
>and the year following were quite mediocre.  This season the same
>Bill James projects a ba of .265, OPS of 675.
The same Bill James? Why do you say that? It sounds like you're suggesting
Bill James had something to do with overhyping the kid to death. Au contraire;
he was fairly critical of him after his ROY campaign, noting that he wasn't
all-world as a catcher or a hitter. He called him basically average when
everyone *else* in the media was predicting the next Johnny Bench or Roy
Campanella.
>Both of these young men were highly touted defensive catchers,
>expected to be among the best ever in baseball.  The reports I
>read indicate that Lopez is very ordinary defensively.
Which reports are those?
>The Dodgers options are Parrish and Hernandez, and now only Carlos.
>Piazza is 24.  As long as he continues with his *very* hot bat,
>they will keep him in the lineup because they need the offensive
>production.  When he cools off, look for the much better defensive
>catcher Hernandez (only 25) to play more.
I like Hernandez a lot, but if Piazza can catch the ball, you've gotta play
him IMHO. He's a much better hitter, although Hernandez isn't a *bad* hitter.
Right now, it sounds like Piazza will catch most of the time and Hernandez
will be Candiotti's caddy since he can catch the knuckler. As long as they
play up to their abilities, the Dodgers could have a very good catching
tandem.
>The Braves options are Berryhill and Olson.  I agree that Olson is
>nothing special, but I do think Berryhill is better than many
>people on rsb believe.  But both the Braves' catchers are very
>good defensively (calling a game, blocking the plate, throwing)
>and although they are somewhat weak offenivsively, they play on a team
>that is not so much in need of another big bat.
I think both are overrated defensively (see Nichols' Law of catcher
defense), but that's something that's difficult to prove or disprove from
your viewpoint or mine. About the only tangible thing we can look at is
opponent's SB%, and that's clouded by how well your pitchers hold runners.
Catchers ERA is a possibility, but it's subject to way too many biases.
As for them 'playing on a team that is not so much in need of another big
bat', I disagree here too. About the only chink in the Braves' armor is that
they're weak offensively at several positions (CF, C, 2B, SS if Belliard
plays, 1B unless Bream and Hunter form another super-platoon) and very weak
defensively if Blauser plays. I'd like to see the Braves give at least one of
Mel Nieves, Javy Lopez or Chipper Jones a shot, but much like the talent-rich
Jays of recent years they'll be conservative and stick with what they have.
I'm not saying that's wrong, just conservative.
--
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch      Blue Jays - Do it again in '93
kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu                        New .. quotes out of context!
"Not to beat a dead horse, but it's been a couple o' weeks .. this
disappoints me..punishments..discharges..jackhammering.." - Stephen Lawrence
From: lsmith@myria.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Re: quick way to tell if your local beat writer is dumb.
Nntp-Posting-Host: myria.cs.umn.edu
Organization: The Little Projective Squids of the Poor
Distribution: na
Lines: 28
In article <Apr.5.16.22.48.1993.11331@pilot.njin.net> gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite) writes:
>
>jayson stark (i think that's him) fits perfectly in this category.
Could be. There is a Jayson Stark that writes weekly for some press syndicate
and also for Baseball America.
>anyone who writes "dean palmer has 2 homers  - at this pace, he'll
> have 324 home runs!" should be shot.
>
>if, at the end of april, he has 11, and anyone writes "at this
> pace, he'll have 100+ homers!" they shouldbe shot too.
Stark has done this sort of thing, but he has never been serious about it.
He usually states that this sort of projection is useless at the top of
such columns. I think he did it one season and some manager was "projected"
to be thrown out of 60 games and some hitter could expect to be plunked
150 times.
Stark does some really funny stuff. His weekly baseball reviews are good
collections of strange things that happened during the previous week. He
also regularly prints Kinerisms.
=============================
Lance "Cr2O3.2H2O" Smith  | "Moments after being named manager for the
(lsmith@cs.umn.edu)     |  Oakland A's, Mr Peanut was crushed by a
Special Limited Edition   |  red headed loner wielding an aluminum bat."
r.s.bb  .signature     |                _Murder at the Mausoleum_
From: kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu (Dave 'Almost Cursed the Jays' Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Young Catchers
Nntp-Posting-Host: staff.tc.umn.edu
Organization: Li'l Carlos and the Hormones
Lines: 31
In article <1993Apr5.165122.19860@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Theodorus RedSox Fannus] Fischer) writes:
>
>Sorry, this doesn't fly.  The good players have *always* been ready
>for the majors early.  How many HOFers were *not* contributing major
>leaguers by the time they were 22?
That brings up an interesting point. Anyone else catch ESPN's piece about
prospects and the relationship between age, career length, MVPs and Hall of
Fame members? It was part of their preseason special. Basically, they looked
at players that had amassed 1000 plate appearances (or ABs) by the time they
were 24, and noticed some interesting things.
For starters, they found out such players comprised the majority of MVPs in
the history of the game. They also found out such players represented the
majority of the players in the hall of fame. The kicker, though, was that
they actually did some number-crunching and found that such players' careers
lasted much longer than the careers of players not in that group. They also
found that these players produced at both a greater level of performance and
produced over twice the raw totals (HRs, etc) of the other players. The first
group outhit the second something like .282 to .260 in raw BA, and blew away
the second group in such categories as HRs, 2Bs, RBIs, etc.
It was the most impressive thing I've seen on ESPN in recent memory.
I guess Ray Knight makes his rebuttal tonight.
--
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch      Blue Jays - Do it again in '93
kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu                        New .. quotes out of context!
"Not to beat a dead horse, but it's been a couple o' weeks .. this
disappoints me..punishments..discharges..jackhammering.." - Stephen Lawrence
From: stwombly@cs.ulowell.edu (Steve Twombly)
Subject: Red Sox win 1st
Organization: UMass-Lowell Computer Science
Lines: 8
BoSox 3     Royals 1
WP: Clemens (1-0)
LP: Appier  (0-1)
Key Hit:  Mike Greenwell's 2 out tripple with bases loaded.
Subject: Re: quick way to tell if your local beat writer is dumb.
From: rbd@flash.ece.uc.edu (Bobby Davis)
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Nntp-Posting-Host: flash.ece.uc.edu
Lines: 13
Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite writes:
>jayson stark (i trhink that's him) fits perfectly in this category.
>
>anyone who writes "dean palmer has 2 homers  - at this pace, he'll
> have 324 home runs!" should be shot.
Bob, I think that Stark does this sort of thing as a joke, not as a
serious prediction.  I don't really see why we should shoot him for
that.  The guys who ought to be shot are the ones who keep claiming
how great the Royals' chances are in the AL West, since all evidence
indicates that they aren't joking and actually believe it.
Bob Davis	rbd@thor.ece.uc.edu
From: thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Young Catchers
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Lines: 20
In article <C518wo.KFy@news2.cis.umn.edu> kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu (Dave 'Almost Cursed the Jays' Kirsch) writes:
>  That brings up an interesting point. Anyone else catch ESPN's piece about
>prospects and the relationship between age, career length, MVPs and Hall of
>Fame members? It was part of their preseason special.
Wow.  ESPN can repeat eleven-year-old Bill James research.  (Literally.
Check the 1982 Abstract.)
>  It was the most impressive thing I've seen on ESPN in recent memory.
Perhaps in 2004 they'll be as reliable as an average SDCN.
>  I guess Ray Knight makes his rebuttal tonight.
Oops, maybe not.
--
ted frank                 | "However Teel should have mentioned that though
thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu |  his advice is legally sound, if you follow it
the u of c law school     |  you will probably wind up in jail."
standard disclaimers      |                    -- James Donald, in misc.legal
From: pjtier01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Finnally, the Phils have support
Lines: 75
Nntp-Posting-Host: ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Organization: University of Louisville
In article <C4yxMJ.BLE@news.udel.edu>, philly@bach.udel.edu (Robert C Hite) writes:
> In article <1993Apr3.182452.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> pjtier01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>
>>>Everytime I have written on the net about the possibility of a
>>>successfuls season by the Philadelphia Phillies, I have gotten ripped
>>>from everybody from Pittsburgh to Calcutta.  But if all the
>>>ignoramouses, care to look at this week's Baseball Weekly, they will see
>>>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>that I'm not the only one who considers then as division winners - the
>>>rest of the most respected baseball writers in the country do as well.
>>
>
>>And what was the reasoning of this genius writer?  That, even though their
>>pitching is at best "sound", they will win on the strength of their offense.
>>Lesse:
>>           '93 offense = '92 offense + (Thompson & Incaviglia)
>>
>>                     '92 offense = 72 wins
>>                     '93 division winners = (at least) 88 wins
>>
>>So,
>>               88 wins = 72 wins + (Thompson & Incaviglia)
>>
>>Therefore,
>>               16 wins = Thompson & Incaviglia
>>
>>What did you learn in school today?
>>
>>If you take a math course and your teacher turns out to be Rob Rains, run,
>>don't walk, to drop/add.
>>                                                                 P. Tierney
>
> You obviously don't know what the hell you're talking about.  No,
> Thompson and Incaviglia don't equal 16 wins, but I'll take the two
> of them over Stan Javier and Ruben Amaro (.249 1HR, 334AB &
> .219 7HR 374 AB)  I'd say this improvement should equate to 6or 7
> wins at least.
>
> Then, I'll take Lenny Dykstra who played 85 games last year and
> project his numbers (.301, 104 hits, 18 2B's, 6 HR, 39RBI, 30 SB)
> over 150 games. Thus(.301, 188 hits, 32 2B's, 11HR, 70RBI, 54 SB)
> Okay, now we'll put these numbers in the leadoff hole and thus
> I have to bump Kruk, Hollins, Daulton RBI numbers up just a tad...
> now lesse... they knocked in 70, 93, and 109 respectively.  Don't
> you think it's fair to add about 5 or 6 RBI to each?  They managed
> to knock in a pretty nice amount of runs with a .219 leadoff hitter.
> Okay bozo, do you think it's fair to add maybe 7 or 8 more wins
> now?    Oh, and how can I forget Wes Chamberlain, 275 AB's 9 HR,
> 41 RBI even WITH a month and 1/2 in AAA and a horrible first half.
> Well project that over a full season to get 18 HR and 80 RBI or so.
> Is that worth a win or two?
>
> Finally, take the *worse* pitching staff in the NL last year, add
> the worse injury decimation of 1992.  Okay, now we add Danny
> jackson, some health, and a full season for Schilling... is that
> worth at least 3 wins?
>
> Okay we've been conservative and added about 18 wins so far.  Now
> we're adding about 4 more wins thanks to the expansion teams...
> Okay, thats 22 wins.  Lesse dipshit math genuious, 72 + 22 = 94
> Hmmm... I think thats good enough to win the worse division in
> baseball?
>
> Next time, before you say something foolish, get a clue first!
>
>
Actually, I was simply relaying the reasoning of this so-called genius BW
writer.  I agree.  The reasoning was foolish.
Next time, before you say something foolish, be aware what you are responding
to.
BTW, 94 wins.  Very funny.
P. Tierney
From: tek2q@Virginia.EDU ("Todd Karlin")
Subject: New Uniforms
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 22
Usually one or two teams changes their logo or a minor
uniform change per season, but the past few seasons have been
incredible.
Any thoughts on the new (old) Reds uniforms.  I
remember seeing a Pete Rose rookie card, and unless I miss my
guess he was wearing the exact same duds.
The Mets (HOW ABOUT DOC'S PERFORMANCE TODAY?!!!!!) have
reinserted the Mets patch on the shoulder, and changed the Mets
insgnia on the front of the jersey.  To my knowledge it is the
first time that has been changed since 1962, and it reminds me
a little of the Dodger logo.
Many teams have opted for a return to a previous style
of uniform, or at least uniforms that look more traditional.
(Phillies, Reds, Expos, White Sox, Padres, etc.) and the once
bright colors have been altered to gray.  The trend has also
seen the newer baseball fields resembling the parks of the
early years, as opposed to the cookie-cutter saucer stadiums
construcrted throughout the sixties.
With salaries now reaching unbelievable highs, no one
in the comissioner's office, and inter-league play on the
horizon, it's nice to see that baseball at least looks like it
was meant to be.
From: kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian)
Subject: Re: Players Overpaid?
Lines: 40
Organization: Pitzer College
Ted Frank's list of underpaid players was this:
>
>p, Juan Guzman, 500
>p, Mussina,	400
>p, Castillo,    250
>p, Eldred,      175
>p, Rhodes,	155
>p, Militello,   118
>rp, Rojas,	300
>rp, Beck,	250
>rp, Melendez,   235
>rp, Hernandez,	185
>rp, Nied,	150
>c, Rodriguez,	275
>c, Piazza,      126
>1b, Thomas,	900
>1b, Bagwell,    655
>2b, Knoblauch,	500
>2b, Barberie,	190
>3b, Gomez,	312.5
>3b, Palmer,	250
>ss, Listach,	350
>ss, Pena,	170
>lf, Gonzalez,	525
>cf, Lankford,	290
>rf, R.Sanders,	275
>of, Plantier,	245
What do all of these players have in common?  They do not qualify for
arbitration.  They were never free agents.
It's called the reserve clause.  Look it up.
And a year from now we will whine about how several of these guys are way
overpaid and getting outrageous raises in arb.  Humbug.
--King "Sparky" Banaian				|"No taxes:  No new taxes,
kbanaian@pitzer.claremont.edu			|no old taxes, we are taxed
Dept. of Economics, Pitzer College		|enough." -- Rep. Alan Keyes
Latest 1993 GDP forecast:  2.4%		| (please run, Alan!)
From: rickc@krill.corp.sgi.com (Richard Casares)
Subject: Vegas odds?
Nntp-Posting-Host: krill.corp.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 6
Does anyone have a list of Vegas odds for teams making
the World Series?
I'd appreciate a mailing.  Thanks,
rickc@corp.sgi.com
From: aardvark@cygnus.la.locus.com (Warren Usui)
Subject: rec.sport.baseball.fantasy
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Lines: 40
April 1, 1993
I am participating in an NL-league that uses standard Rotisserie rules
except that the following catagories are used:
For position players:
lowest batting average
strike-outs
caught-stealing
errors
For pitchers:
losses
blown saves
higest ERA
'taters allowed
This is the fifth year that I've participated in this Blowtisserie
league.  Last year I won the pennant due primarily to the fact that
I had terrible pitching.  I would like to lower my batting average
which is rather high because I do have Jose Offerman (who made up
for this by helping me lock first place in errors).  Anyway,
someone offered:
Andres Gallaraga for Bud Black
I can afford to give up Bud Black because I still have Kyle Abbott.
However, I am afraid of Andres actually doing well this season.
Should I make the trade or not?
Your comments will be appreciated.
--
Warren Usui
I'm one with the Universe -- on a scale from 1 to 10.
From: 00bjgood@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Subject: Jim Lefebvre is an idiot.
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's
Lines: 14
I just wanted to let everyone know that I have lost what little respect I have
for Jim LeFebvre after seeing today's Cubs game. First of all how could he
start Maldonado over May. After the way May played at the end of last year and
the way he tore up the Cactus League how could you let him sit the bench? Not
to mention that a right hander (Maddux) started. I really blew my top when
Lefebvre pinch hit for Rick Wilkins with TOMMY SHIELDS! How can you do that
just because of the lefty-righty thing, too much is made of that. Wilkins is
twice the hitter that Shields is. Then the next batter was Jose Vizcaino, one
of the weakest hitters I have ever seen, and who had looked terrible at bat all
day, and Lefebre let him hit, while May still sat the bench. I think even Arnie
Harris was stunned by this because he showed May sitting in the dugout while
Vizcaino was batting. Face it Lefebvre has got to be the worst manager in
baseball.
A dishard Cub fan
From: horan@cse.unl.edu (Mark Horan)
Subject: Re: Best Second Baseman?
Article-I.D.: crcnis1.1pqvusINNmjm
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln
Lines: 29
NNTP-Posting-Host: cse.unl.edu
thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
>In article <1993Mar29.044248.16010@sarah.albany.edu> js8484@albnyvms.bitnet writes:
>>Personally, I think that Alomar is all hype. He is producing incredibly now,
>>but in the long run, he will never put up the numbers that Sandberg has. For
>>THIS moment, Alomar may be the best, but overall Sandberg wins out by a long
>>shot.
>When Sandberg was Alomar's age, he was putting up .261 seasons with no power.
>Alomar's 1992 OBA is 25 points higher than Sandberg's career high.  Alomar's
>career high in doubles and triples is higher than Sandberg's.  Sandberg is
>still better than Alomar, but only because Alomar hasn't reached his full
>potential yet.  Alomar's got a 2.5 year-headstart on Sandberg (he has 862
>hits; Sandberg didn't have 862 hits until he was 26), and is likely to
>put up better career numbers than Sandberg in everything except home runs.
>He'll pass Sandberg in stolen bases sometime in 1995.
Sandberg is not particulary known for his stolen bases.  What competition did
Alomar have?  Sandberg came in a year after Ripken, and the same year as Boggs,
Gwynn, and the other magicians.  So less attention was given to Sandberg.
Alomar is the only one in his class to be worth a mediocre.  Besides the
numbers don't count.  National league pitchers are much better pitchers.
Larry                          on someone elses account
--
Mark Horan --
horan@cse.unl.edu
ianr053@unlvm
From: machman@hardy.u.washington.edu (The Machman)
Subject: Re: Jim Lefebvre is an idiot.
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 19
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu
00bjgood@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>I just wanted to let everyone know that I have lost what little respect I have
>for Jim LeFebvre after seeing today's Cubs game. First of all how could he
[ etc. ]
>Vizcaino was batting. Face it Lefebvre has got to be the worst manager in
>baseball.
>						A dishard Cub fan
Hey, he's the only manager so far to lead the Seattle Mariners to a
winning season, out of, what, fifteen?  Give him some credit for that.
-- dave
--
/'''    The Machman       machman@u.washington.edu      david c carroll
c-OO
\                     "Big Science.  Hallelujah"
-
From: dkl@cs.arizona.edu (David K. Lowenthal)
Subject: Re: Giants' GM Quinn *is* a genius!
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson
Lines: 22
In article <C50nH4.4Et@odin.corp.sgi.com> luigi@sgi.com (Randy Palermo) writes:
>Will Clark
>Matt Williams
>Robbie Thompson
>Rod Beck........All came up through the Giants system.
Geez.  Everyone comes up with Clark, Williams, Thompson.  These guys
were all up in 1987.  That's ancient history.  So in the last 6 years,
noone, right?  Beck doesn't count.  I said 2 solid years.
>BTW, Manwaring lead the ML last season in throwing out baserunners. He is
>an excellent defensive catcher. I agree that his offensive skills are
>limited but he does seem to be improving on them.
Let's see what he does w/o the help of a pitchout every other pitch.
As I remember, even Bob Brenly had a good throwout percentage under
Roger Craig, who loved to sacrifice the count for runners being thrown
out.  Of course, he suffered from 3 ball 1 strike homers a lot too.
I am not a big fan of Manwaring.
--dave
From: gt0523e@prism.gatech.EDU (Michael Andre Mule)
Subject: Re: harry and candy
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 19
>But I like the way he butchers Andres Galarraga's name.
Y'all lighten up on Harry, Skip'll be like that in a couple of years!!>
>It comes out like "gahlah rrrraggggah".
>And don't forget his frequent references to the great SF Giant star
>Bobby Bonds!
Harry's a great personality.  He's the reason I like Cubs broadcasts.
(It's certainly not the quality of the team).
Chop Chop
Michael Mule'
--
Michael Andre Mule
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0523e
Internet: gt0523e@prism.gatech.edu
From: cpc4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (CONNIN PATRICK COLGAIN)
Subject: A.L. East is best in baseball!
Organization: Lehigh University
Lines: 27
Is there any doubt that this is true?  After a few down years, the A.L. East
is back to where it was in the early eighties.  With the emergence of the O's
and the Yanks, it is far and away the best.  While the N.L. West has the best
team in baseball, and the Reds aren't bad either, they have nothing else.  The
Giants, Astros, and Padres all have talent, they do not have the all arounf
teams that are found in the A.L. East.  And the Dodgers just plain suck.  As
for the Rockies, who knows?
The A.L. East has the defending champs, and although they lost a lot to
free agency, Toronto is still one of the best in baseball.  The Orioles have
the preseason favorite to win the Cy Young in Mike Mussina, and you can never
forget about Ripken.  The signings of Harold Baines and Harold Reynolds don't
hurt to much either, although I always liked Bill Ripken.  While they let a
lot go this summer (Randy Milligan, Joe Orsulak, Bill Ripken, Bob Milacki, Sam
Horn, Storm Davis, and Craig Lefferts), they kept the heart of their team
intact.
My predicted finish:
1. Baltimore (Could be a biased opinion)
2. NY Yankees
3. Toronto
4. Milwaukee
5. Detroit
6. Boston
7. Cleveland (Would have been higher if not for the accident)
Go O's!!!!!!!!
--
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite)
Subject: Re: My Belated Predictions (NL)
Article-I.D.: pilot.Apr.6.00.29.46.1993.26280
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken
Lines: 13
briefly, since i'm off to sleep.
mle's work pretty well for AA nd AAA players.
players who are 22 and younger will tend to have explosions
in their numbers, whether mMLE's or not, in the next 2 years...
players who are 26 and OLDER, at those levels, generally have
inflated MLE's.
they're about as reliable as having major league stats for a player.
- bob gaj
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite)
Subject: Re: quick way to tell if your local beat writer is dumb.
Article-I.D.: pilot.Apr.6.00.33.22.1993.26417
Distribution: na
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken
Lines: 7
ok - sorry about that...i didn't realise he was being sarcastic about
those sort of things.
but i'll tell you, mike lupica (daily news) usually says some pretty
funny things in his "shooting from the lip" columns...
- bob gaj
From: u96_msopher@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu
Subject: Phils are still looking immaculate!
Lines: 18
Organization: Stevens Institute Of Technology
Ladies and gentleman,
Step one was taken on the Phils' triumphant trip this year tonight!
(Yes, that was English!)
Mulholland's ERA after tonight's game? 0.00...nice try Drabek!
NINJA JEW
From: rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser)
Subject: Quick easy question!
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 14
Here's an easy question for someone who knows nothing about baseball...
What city do the California Angels play out of?
--
Richard J. Rauser        "You have no idea what you're doing."
rauser@sfu.ca            "Oh, don't worry about that. We're professional
WNI                          outlaws - we do this for a living."
-----------------
"Remember, no matter where you go, there you are." -Dr.Banzai
From: djs9683@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: Finnally, the Phils have support
Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxc.isc.rit.edu
Reply-To: djs9683@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
The Phillies were picked to be in first.
Someone replied that the people who picked them were the same people who
picked the Mets last year.
My reply:  Yeah, that may be true, but this IS the Phillies.
Fritz
From: thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: quick way to tell if your local beat writer is dumb.
Article-I.D.: midway.1993Apr6.044201.27457
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Chicago
Lines: 16
In article <Apr.6.00.33.22.1993.26417@pilot.njin.net> gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite) writes:
>ok - sorry about that...i didn't realise he was being sarcastic about
> those sort of things.
>
>but i'll tell you, mike lupica (daily news) usually says some pretty
> funny things in his "shooting from the lip" columns...
>
>- bob gaj
Y'know, if current trends continue, the Florida Marlins will be the first
expansion team to go 162-0 and outscore their opponents by 486 runs.
--
ted frank                 | "However Teel should have mentioned that though
thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu |  his advice is legally sound, if you follow it
the u of c law school     |  you will probably wind up in jail."
standard disclaimers      |                    -- James Donald, in misc.legal
From: pkeenan@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Patricia Keenan)
Subject: Re: Quick easy question!
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology
Lines: 16
rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>   Here's an easy question for someone who knows nothing about baseball...
>   What city do the California Angels play out of?
Anaheim.
>--
>Richard J. Rauser        "You have no idea what you're doing."
>rauser@sfu.ca            "Oh, don't worry about that. We're professional
>WNI                          outlaws - we do this for a living."
>-----------------
>"Remember, no matter where you go, there you are." -Dr.Banzai
From: wrl@pmafire.inel.gov (William Lechner)
Subject: Trivia Question!!
Distribution: usa
Organization: WINCO
Lines: 19
Ok all you trivia buffs, I have a good one for you.
1.  Prior to the foul bunt rule what is the record for the most foul balls
by 1 batter during one at bat?
2.  Total pitches?
3.  Who was the batter?
4.  Who was the pitcher?
5.  Same as 1-4 except after the foul bunt rule.
Associated data would be nice too (such as date, location, teams, etc.)
Bill
wrl@pmafire.inel.gov
From: thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Best Second Baseman?
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Distribution: usa
Lines: 22
In article <1pqvusINNmjm@crcnis1.unl.edu> horan@cse.unl.edu (Mark Horan) writes:
>Sandberg is not particulary known for his stolen bases.  What competition did
>Alomar have?  Sandberg came in a year after Ripken, and the same year as Boggs,
>Gwynn, and the other magicians.  So less attention was given to Sandberg.
>Alomar is the only one in his class to be worth a mediocre.  Besides the
>numbers don't count.  National league pitchers are much better pitchers.
You're right: Thomas, Gonzalez, Sheffield, and Griffey don't even begin
to compare with Ripken, Boggs, and Gwynn, so no wonder Alomar gets so
much attention.
Sandberg got no attention his rookie year because his rookie year was
terrible.  So was his sophomore year.
National League pitchers are "much better pitchers"?  That certainly explains
Sheffield's 1993, hm?  Are you confusing "have ERA's that are 0.40 lower
because they don't face DH's" with "much better"?
--
ted frank                 | "However Teel should have mentioned that though
thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu |  his advice is legally sound, if you follow it
the u of c law school     |  you will probably wind up in jail."
standard disclaimers      |                    -- James Donald, in misc.legal
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (K. Mitchell Bose)
Subject: Re: ESPN and Expansion
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 38
NNTP-Posting-Host: carina.unm.edu
In article <C5109u.7C0@ucdavis.edu> itlm013@dale.ucdavis.edu (Donnie Trump) writes:
>I was watching Peter Gammons on ESPN last night, and he's got me a little
>confused.
>
>While talking about expansion, he started mentioning people who might benefit
>from the fringe players they'll be facing: McGriff hitting 50 home runs,
>Sheffield getting 150 rbi's, and Glavine winning 25 games.  This was,
>of course, all in reference to what happened the *other* times that baseball
>has expanded (early 60's, late 60's, late 70's).
>
>What really confused me, though, was the mention of *AL* players who would
>do well next year.  Specifically, Roger Clemens winning 25 games, and the
>likes of McGwire and Gonzalez hitting 50 home runs.
>
>My question is:  How in the hell will the Rockies/Marlins help the AL?  The
>last time I looked, there wasn't a lot of talent jumping leagues.  Did I
>miss something?
>
Only if you persist in believing that Peter Gammons is more knowledgable about
baseball than the average mailbox.  Okay, I'm overstating.  Still, the man
actually had the gall to say that one out of every six pitchers in the NL this
year did not pitch in the majors last year.
Huh?
IMO, this expansion will not see the explosive jump in offense that the
other expansion drafts had, since the talent was diluted over both leagues.
In Gammons' defense, because the talent drain came from the AL as well, some
increase will be seen.  He also gets credit for mentioning that the 1969 jump
in offense was due also to the rules changes after the 1968 season.  He's still
full of it...
--
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) * kbos@carina.unm.edu
"If you take out all the f--ks, this is an 18 page book."
-Wally Backman, leafing though a copy of Mets teammate Lenny Dykstra's
autobiography, _NAILS_
Subject: Re: Bo was a good player, you shorts (plus idiots)
From: guilford@otago.ac.nz
<1993Apr5.101636.1@otago.ac.nz> <C50M9D.Dv@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand
Nntp-Posting-Host: thorin.otago.ac.nz
Lines: 106
In article <C50M9D.Dv@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker) writes:
>      BO JACKSON 1963
>   1988 KCR    437  106  16   4  23   28   29   7  .253   67  .243  .288  .455
>   1989 KCR    517  134  19   5  33   41   27  10  .274   92  .259  .314  .507
>   1990 KCR    405  110  17   1  27   44   16   9  .286   77  .272  .343  .519
>   1991 CWS     71   16   3   0   3   12    0   1  .240   10  .225  .337  .394
>     MAJ      1430  366  55  10  86  125   72  27  .270  246  .256  .316  .489
>     MAJ       598  153  23   4  36   52   30  11
>
> This is what Jackson looked like in 88-91, with everything converted
> to a neutral park, on the basis of run production. His equivalent
> average started at .253 in 88, was up to .274 in 89 and 286 in 90. So
> let us say he had established, in his last two seasons, a .280 level
> of play.
I'm not quite sure how these numbers are generated.  It appears that in
a neutral park Bo's HR and slugging tend to drop (he actually loses two
home runs).  Or do they?  What is "equivalent average?"
One thing, when looking at Bo's stats, is that you can see that KC took
away some homers.  Normally, you expect some would-be homers to go for
doubles or triples in big parks, or to be caught, and for that matter you
expect lots of doubles and triples anyway.  But Bo, despite his speed,
hit very few doubles and not that many triples.  So I would expect his
value to have risen quite considerably in a neutral park.
> That is good. Very good, in fact. But it probably doesn't make the top
> ten in the league. The 10th best EQA in the AL in 1992 was Dave
> Winfield's .296; Thomas was first at .350. First in the NL was Bonds,
> an incroyable .378; tenth was Bip Roberts, .297. But .280 is better
> than any season in the past five years by Joe Carter; it is about what
> Mattingly had in 1988 (.285); what Felix Jose had the last two years;
> just ahead of Time Raines' five-year average; better than Ryan
> Klesko's MLEs.
Felix Jose has been a .350/.440 player in a fairly neutral park.
I would offhand guess the `89-`90 Bo at around a .330/.530 player.
Maybe .330/.550 .  Not even close.
> He got more attention from the media than was warranted from his
> baseball playing, though; his hype was a lot better than his hitting.
> That is the basis for the net.comments about him being overrated. The
> media would have you beleive he was a great hitter. I think he was a
> good, maybe very good hitter. He was IMO, something like the 30th best
> hitter in the majors.
I'd put him about there too.
Note: I hadn't realized the media had hyped him so much.  I thought he
was always viewed by them as a better football player, and only so-so
at baseball.  He did only have one 30-hr, 100-rbi season, and KC wasn't
winning.
Note 2: I maybe have harped on this a bit in the past, but there is a
mistake being made (by the SDCN's, as they are known, on this group)
with respect to players like Bo and Deion and Lofton (and perhaps others).
We find, that if you look at a large group of players, their past major
and minor league numbers will predict their future numbers fairly well.
Their are some caveats: the younger they are, the less good the prediction;
the lower the minor league, the less good (I imagine), the more recent
the player has left college ball, etc.
Now of course, this prediction involves quite a bit of "error."  Sometimes
a player with poor MLE's (Dave Justice, the 1990 Ventura) becomes a star.
Some hitters develop (Shane Mack, Brian Downing), some don't (Oddibe
McDowell, Mickey Brantley).  This error involves real things: there are
real reasons why Oddibe didn't hit and Shane did.  It may (who knows)
involve parks and batting coaches and wheaties and injuries and lifting
and so on.
But still, you have this big pool of players, and things work pretty well.
One of the reasons for these predictions accuracy is the common background
of the players.  One thing we know about professional baseball players is
that all of them (or almost all) have spent a good deal of time playing
ball.  Their backgrounds are similar.
What hasn't been established is what happens when you encounter a player
with a different background?  Is there some reason to believe that a
Bo, or a Deion, or a Lofton, or a Tony Gwynn (?), or an Ainge, or so
on, has such a different background, that the standard model and standard
assumptions fit this person slowly?
It hasn't been established that you can use MLE's with two-sport players.
(It hasn't been established that you can't, but then statistics is, after
all, an art).  I personally think otherwise lucid individuals continually
make completely nonsensical statements about Bo and Deion and Lofton.
"Look at those good-but-not-great minor league numbers," they say.  Well,
what happens if those numbers simply don't mean what they usually mean?
It might mean that Ken Lofton suddenly has a better year in Houston than
Tuscon.  It might mean that Deion suddenly has a better half-year in
Atlanta than Greenville.
Then again, it might not.  Ken and Deion might go right back in the tank
this year, live up to those poor MLE's.  But you guys DON'T KNOW.  What's
worse, you don't know that you don't.  And you don't know that there are
other players you won't know about -- injuries and lifting and wheaties
again.  You seem to think that the model is perfect and eternal.  It's not.
It's got some error.
Oh well.
Bill Guilford
still thinks "hairy butt is truly ugly" might be right
From: cabanrf@wkuvx1.bitnet
Subject: Re: My Belated Predictions (NL)
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY
Lines: 56
In article <mssC4zyo8.JsC@netcom.com>, mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) writes:
> In article <Apr.4.19.42.08.1993.12176@pilot.njin.net> gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite) writes:
>>i've said the braves would improve by injury as well.  here's how.
>>
>>javier lopez is a better catcher than greg olson.
>>ryan klasko is a better firstbaseman than bream.
>> chipper jones is a better shortstop than anyone the braves
>> put out there.
>>
>>mel nieves is better than nixon/sanders.
>>
>>that's how. it FORCES them to play the young guys.
>>
>>- bob gaj
>
> I continue to be amazed at these comments.  While Lopez might *some
> day* be a better catcher than Olson, I find it totally amazing for
> you to suggest that this 22 year-old with three seasons of professional
> baseball is *now* better than Olson, a five-year MLB veteran who is
> noted for his ability to call a game, and who has a better-than-average
> arm.  Oh, perhaps you are talking about hitting.  Well, sure, Lopez
> *might* hit better.  Perhaps he *probably* will.
>
> But has there ever in the history of baseball been a 22-year-old (or
> younger) *rookie* catcher who compared favorably among all league
> catchers in terms of defense and brought a .247 bat?  Wasn't it
Yes, Ivan Rodriguez, last year.  Batted .260 and threw out 51% of the
baserunners.  Not too shabby for a rookie from AA.  20 years old last
year.
> Sandy Alomar who was supposed to be that good in his rookie year?
> Not.  Wasn't it Benito Santiago who was supposed to be that good
> in his rookie year?  Not.
>
> I can continue this thread with the others mentioned, but you get
> the point.  You and others seem to be so quick to dismiss the
> seasoned veterans in favor of the hot *young* rookies.  Perhaps -
> just perhaps - the management team of the pennant-winning Braves
> knows something more than you do.  And perhaps what they know is
> that very, very few 21- and 22-year old rookies come up to the majors
> and make an impact.
>
>
> --	The Beastmaster
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Singer
> mss@netcom.com
--
Roy F. Cabaniss......................*Wait till Tommy meets the Lord and
Western Kentucky University..........*finds out that He's wearing pinstripes.
All opinions contained herein........*Gaylord Perry (talking about Lasorda)
Are all mine own, and that's the sin.*Baseball, what a way to spend a day!!
From: ada41546@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Driftwood)
Subject: Re: Jim Lefebvre is an idiot.
Article-I.D.: news.C51uC6.BL1
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 9
I totally agree with each point you made.  Jose Viscaino looked
like a single A hitter up there.  Who swings on 3-1 count with Maddux
pitching and your teams down by a run, and you haven't touched the ball all
day.  I also think too much is made of that lefty-righty thing.  Watching
the Cubs games I get the feeling Steve Stone knows a lot more about what
the Cubs should be doing than Lefebre does.  Harry said it best when he
stated after another terrible Vizcaino at bat-- we can't wait til
Sandberg returns!
From: bodom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Brian Odom)
Subject: Re: New Uniforms
Article-I.D.: usenet.C51vwC.Lru
Organization: Indiana University
Lines: 37
Nntp-Posting-Host: silver.ucs.indiana.edu
In <1993Apr5.224631.636@Virginia.EDU> tek2q@Virginia.EDU ("Todd Karlin") writes:
>	Usually one or two teams changes their logo or a minor
>uniform change per season, but the past few seasons have been
>incredible.
>	Any thoughts on the new (old) Reds uniforms.  I
>remember seeing a Pete Rose rookie card, and unless I miss my
>guess he was wearing the exact same duds.
>	The Mets (HOW ABOUT DOC'S PERFORMANCE TODAY?!!!!!) have
>reinserted the Mets patch on the shoulder, and changed the Mets
>insgnia on the front of the jersey.  To my knowledge it is the
>first time that has been changed since 1962, and it reminds me
>a little of the Dodger logo.
As far as I know, Toronto, Pittsburgh, and New York (NL) change their
uniforms every year.  Every other year (e.g., New York), it will say Mets
in cursive, New York in cursive, or New York in all caps.  Minor changes,
but they do change them often.  Last year, I think they had New York in all
caps.  Did Toronto have Blue Jays or Toronto last year?  What about
Pittsburgh?
>	Many teams have opted for a return to a previous style
>of uniform, or at least uniforms that look more traditional.
>(Phillies, Reds, Expos, White Sox, Padres, etc.) and the once
>bright colors have been altered to gray.  The trend has also
>seen the newer baseball fields resembling the parks of the
>early years, as opposed to the cookie-cutter saucer stadiums
>construcrted throughout the sixties.
I hate the gray.  They should opt for more color (like the White Sox).
I hate white team versus gray team.  Spring training uniforms look much
better.
>	With salaries now reaching unbelievable highs, no one
>in the comissioner's office, and inter-league play on the
>horizon, it's nice to see that baseball at least looks like it
>was meant to be.
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Jim Lefebvre is an idiot.
Article-I.D.: Princeto.1993Apr6.084432.3805
Organization: Princeton University
Lines: 21
Originator: news@nimaster
Nntp-Posting-Host: phoenix.princeton.edu
In <C51uC6.BL1@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ada41546@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Driftwood) writes:
>	I totally agree with each point you made.  Jose Viscaino looked
>like a single A hitter up there.  Who swings on 3-1 count with Maddux
>pitching and your teams down by a run, and you haven't touched the ball all
>day?
Oh, this is an easy trivia question.  The answer is "any Cub not named
Sandberg or Grace."
>      I also think too much is made of that lefty-righty thing.  Watching
>the Cubs games I get the feeling Steve Stone knows a lot more about what
>the Cubs should be doing than Lefebre does.  Harry said it best when he
>stated after another terrible Vizcaino at bat-- we can't wait til
>Sandberg returns!
--
David M. Nieporent   |  "Only one thing wrong with theory...
niepornt@phoenix.    |    Is stupid!  Is stupidest theory I ever heard!"
princeton.edu     |   ---------------------
Baltimore Orioles 93 |  Who's the dangerous cult -- the BDs or the BATF?
From: jrs@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu (Robert Sapp)
Subject: Re: Billy gets cheers in Baltimore!
Organization: Johns Hopkins Univ. Welch Medical Library
Distribution: na
Lines: 41
In article <5APR199313263142@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller) writes:
>Orioles vs. Texas at Camden Yards, April 5, Opening Day:
>
>Batting 9th for Texas, playing Second Base:
>
>	BILLY ... RIPKEN
>
>The hometown crowd gave their favorite ex-2nd Baseman a 2-minute standing
>ovation as Billy, wearing flashy shades, took the cheers smiling and
>waving.
>
>	"Consummate role player" (in the words of P.A. caller Jon Miller)
>Tim Hulett failed to receive similar cheers when announced.  Mainly because
>he didn't have the courtesy to show up.
Wasn't Hulett injured yesterday after being hit in the face with a ball
while running bases?  I heard something about him recieving stiches and a
possible broken nose.  Is he at the park?
>	Fernando was warmly received, good to see that.
Let's see how they feel when he's 0 and 4 with a 4.9 ERA.  I have my
doubts about Fernando.
>	F.Y.I, when Cal was announced, Jon Miller says:
>	"It seems like yesterday when this young man...began a consecutive
>game streak ... 10-time All-Star, 2 time MVP, 2 time gold glover, our
>future Hall of Fame shortsop, batting 3rd, Cal Ripken".  The Standing O
>lasted about 15 seconds.  1:45 less than Billy.  Blargh.
Well, when a fan favorite gets dumped, he's gonna get an outstanding
ovation on his first return.  Let's add up the ovations Cal has recieved
over the years during the game and compare that to Billy.
BTW, Sutcliffe's getting knocked around pretty good.  Rangers up 5 - 1 in
the bottom of the fourth.
--Rob
From: aardvark@spica.la.locus.com (Warren Usui)
Subject: Re: quick way to tell if your local beat writer is dumb.
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Lines: 14
In article <Apr.5.16.22.48.1993.11331@pilot.njin.net> gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite) writes:
>anyone who writes "dean palmer has 2 homers  - at this pace, he'll
> have 324 home runs!" should be shot.
The Dodgers after one inning of play have committed one error.  At this rate
they'll have 1,455 errors this season!
Well maybe I'm right this time...
--
Warren Usui
I'm one with the Universe -- on a scale from 1 to 10.
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: DESIGNATED HITTER RULE
Originator: news@nimaster
Nntp-Posting-Host: phoenix.princeton.edu
Organization: Princeton University
Lines: 17
In <ekdfc.14.0@ttacs1.ttu.edu> ekdfc@ttacs1.ttu.edu (David Coons) writes:
>In <1993Apr4.221228.17577@bsu-ucs> 00ecgillespi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>>I AM DOING A POSTITION PAPER ON THE DESIGNATED HITTER RULE. ANY INFORMATION
>>OR EVEN OPINIONS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECITATED. 00ECGILLESPIE "MAGIC"
>Should be rescinded.  The rules say baseball is a game between two teams of
>nine players each.  Let's keep it that way.
Not any more the rules don't say that.  So that's a pretty dumb argument.
--
David M. Nieporent   |  "Only one thing wrong with theory...
niepornt@phoenix.    |    Is stupid!  Is stupidest theory I ever heard!"
princeton.edu     |   ---------------------
Baltimore Orioles 93 |  Who's the dangerous cult -- the BDs or the BATF?
From: str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM (Todd Rader)
Subject: Re: Rickey Henderson
Organization: Sun
Lines: 6
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: maredsous
In article <1993Apr5.173500.26383@ra.msstate.edu> js1@Isis.MsState.Edu (Jiann-ming Su) writes:
%I say buy out Henderson's contract and let him go bag groceries.  Next
%season, you'll be able to sign him for nothing.  That goes for any bitching
%ball player.
Stay in school.  You have a lot to learn.
Organization: University of Maine System
From: Ryan Robbins <IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Subject: Re: DESIGNATED HITTER RULE
<1993Apr5.153407.19101@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>
Lines: 8
Actually, there can be any number of players on a side. You can
have a 25-man roster, a 40-man roster, etc....
Ryan Robbins
Penobscot Hall
University of Maine
IO20456@Maine.Maine.Edu
Organization: University of Maine System
From: Ryan Robbins <IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Why The RedFlops Can(but won't) win.....
Lines: 10
Don't knock Vaughn for being a spring training .400 hitter
but a .250 regular season hitter.
Around 30 games played isn't an indication of how good any
hitter is, and the quality of pitching is way down.
Ryan Robbins
Penobscot Hall
University of Maine
IO20456@Maine.Maine.Edu
From: carrd@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com
Subject: Re: David Wells
Lines: 5
Has David Wells landed with a team yet?  I'd think the Tigers with their
anemic pitching would grab this guy pronto!
DC
From: atchison@cis.ohio-state.edu (mark edward atchison)
Subject: Re: Cleveland tragedy
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Lines: 12
NNTP-Posting-Host: cowardlylion.cis.ohio-state.edu
In article <1993Apr5.121202.100648@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman) writes:
> I wonder if Ojeda will sue anyone - because his career may be over.
Not due to the accident -- he just got a (really) bad haircut.  Now, if you
meant due to his floating fastball, well...
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Mark Atchison, a.k.a. <atchison@cis.ohio-state.edu>; Graduate Student in the
Computer Science Dept, THE Ohio State University (NOT an Ohio State University)
Any plagiarisms seen above are not my own...
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate)
Subject: Re: Pinch Hitters (WAS Re: Denny Walling)
Article-I.D.: blue.7960
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering
Lines: 20
rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert) said:
>
>(And I thought Mota didn't really start pinch-hitting for a
>living until after 1973)
Depends on what you mean by "for a living".  1974 was the year he led the
league in pinch-hit at bats with 50, but he'd been getting a lot of PH ABs
earlier than that, and was never a full-time player.  20-35 PH ABs early in
his career, 15-20 a year just before going to the Dodgers, and 30-50 in the
peak years.
We're talking about a guy with a 20-year career as an outfielder, a .300+
career batting average, and 1130 or so career hits.
--
David M. Tate   |  (i do not know what it is about you that closes
posing as:      |  and opens; only something in me understands
e e (can       |  the pocket of your glove is deeper than Pete Rose's)
dy) cummings |  nobody, not even Tim Raines, has such soft hands
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate)
Subject: Re: MARLINS WIN! MARLINS WIN!
Article-I.D.: blue.7961
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering
Lines: 13
dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu said:
>I only caught the tail end of this one on ESPN.  Does anyone have a report?
>(Look at all that Teal!!!!  BLEAH!!!!!!!!!)
Maybe it's just me, but the combination of those *young* faces peeking out
from under oversized aqua helmets screams "Little League" in every fibre of
my being...
--
David M. Tate   |  (i do not know what it is about you that closes
posing as:      |  and opens; only something in me understands
e e (can       |  the pocket of your glove is deeper than Pete Rose's)
dy) cummings |  nobody, not even Tim Raines, has such soft hands
From: cwamsley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Christopher Wamsley)
Subject: Re: New Uniforms
Article-I.D.: magnus.1993Apr6.121706.8533
Organization: The Ohio State University
Lines: 19
Nntp-Posting-Host: magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
In article <C51vwC.Lru@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> bodom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Br
ian Odom) writes:
>As far as I know, Toronto, Pittsburgh, and New York (NL) change their
>uniforms every year.  Every other year (e.g., New York), it will say Mets
>in cursive, New York in cursive, or New York in all caps.  Minor changes,
>but they do change them often.  Last year, I think they had New York in all
>caps.  Did Toronto have Blue Jays or Toronto last year?  What about
>Pittsburgh?
It depends on which uniforms you are talking about.  For the last
couple of years I believe Toronto and Pittsburgh has used the same uniforms,
or at least very similar.  The home jerseys had the team nick name
(Blue Jays or Pirates), but the road jerseys had the name of the city
(Toronto or Pittsburgh).  I believe this is the way most teams design
their uniforms.
-- Chris
From: hagins@avlin8.us.dg.com (Jody Hagins)
Subject: O's lose openr at home to Rangers
Reply-To: hagins@avlin8.us.dg.com
Organization: Data General Corporation, Linthicum, MD
Lines: 11
Sutcliffe gives up 3 HRs (Gonzales 1, Palmer 2) and Mills gives up
1 HR (Gonzales) to lose 7-4.  Sutcliffe
Texas     7 10  0 Lefferts 1-0
Baltimore 4  9  0 Sutcliffe 0-1
--
Jody Hagins -- hagins@avlin8.us.dg.com
Data General Corporation, Linthicum, MD
From: reiniger@ug.cs.dal.ca (Darren Reiniger)
Subject: MLB logos: Part 3
Summary: National League East posted
Nntp-Posting-Host: ug.cs.dal.ca
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Lines: 10
I have posted the logos of the NL East teams to alt.binaries.pictures.misc
Hopefully, I'll finish the series up next week with the NL West.
Darren
--
Darren Reiniger                   reiniger@ug.cs.dal.ca || arishem@ac.dal.ca
Centre For Marine Geology, Dalhousie University, Halifax, N.S., Canada
| People who wonder where this generation is going should remind themselves   |
| where it came from in the first place.                                      |
From: kenney@tribe.b17d.ingr.COM (David Kenney)
Subject: My 1993 Predictions
Reply-To: kenney@tribe.b17d.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, Alabama
Lines: 57
I thought I'd post my predicted standings since I find those posted by others
to be interesting.  Sorry this is after Opening Day.  I certify that these
were completed before the first pitch. :-)
AL East
1.  New York Yankees - the most (only?) improved team in this division
2.  Toronto Blue Jays - Stewart and Morris?  No way.
3.  Milwaukee Brewers - they always seem to do better than I expect
4.  Baltimore Orioles - Pitching, but Devareaux, Anderson, and Hoiles will drop
5.  Cleveland Indians - Still don't seem to know what they are doing
6.  Detroit Tigers - All key players but Fryman are another year past peak
7.  Boston Red Sox - Any team with Clemens and Viola might be beter than 7th
Al West - this division was the toughest for me to pick.  Whoever of the top
4 gets pitching should win it.
1.  Minnesota Twins - young pitchers seem to have best chance for success
2.  Texas Rangers - I don't know why I have them here.  Jose Canseco?
3.  Chicago White Sox - Frank Thomas but no pitching.
4.  Oakland A's - LaRussa is the best manager and would keep any team close
5.  Seattle Mariners - I like Pinella, but don't see much here
6.  Kansas City Royals - will score no runs
7.  California Angels - will win no games
NL East
1.  Montreal Expos - good all around, plus no Wallach!
2.  St. Louis Cardinals - (Jeffries + Whiten) >> (Jose + Clark), no Galarraga
3.  Pittsburgh Pirates - youngsters will take up more slack than expected
4.  New York Mets - some good players, still not a "team"
5.  Philadelphia Phillies - they don't impress me
6.  Florida Marlins - they know what they're doing
7.  Chicago Cubs - they don't know what they're doing
NL West - The 2 best teams in baseball are in this division.
1.  Atlanta Braves - Awesome starters, but offense could be a concern
2.  Cincinnati Reds - Would not surprise me if they won it all
3.  Houston Astros - Any team that signs Uribe won't contend. Closer to 4 than 2
4.  San Diego Padres - Plantier could be the Sheffield of 1993
5.  Los Angeles Dodgers - better pitching than the Giants
6.  San Francisco Giants - because the Rockies just stink
7.  Colorado Rockies - will become the Seattle Mariners of the NL.
NLCS  Montreal d. Atlanta  (Braves fans, yes I'm probably contradicting
what I said in my NL West comment.)
ALCS  New York d. Minnesota
World Series  New York d. Montreal - Hating the Yankees will be
fashionable again
NL MVP:  Barry Bonds, or maybe McGriff
NL Cy Young:  Jose Rijo
AL MVP:  Frank Thomas will deserve it (again), but Fielder might win it
AL Cy Young:  Roger Clemens (at least will deserve it (again))
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Kenney                                       kenney@tribe.b17d.ingr.com
From: derich@netcom.com (Scotty*Tissue)
Subject: 15-day, 30-day, 60-day disabled list questions
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 20
I've a curiousity --
Whenever a person is put on the 15-day, 30-day or 60-day,
the person is on the list longer than the specificed time
I've seen a person on the 15-day for maybe 4 months last year, I don't
remember what...
I just need a little clarification on the disabled list specifications.
- Scotyy
--
Scott Allen Steinbrink        ************************************************
* GO CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!! NBA FINALS '93!!!!!!*
NetCom: Derich@netcom.com     * GO CLEVELAND INDIANS!!!! WORLD SERIES '93!!!!*
Digex:  derich@digex.com      * GO CLEVELAND BROWNS!!!!! SUPER BOWL '94!!!!!!*
************************************************
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate)
Subject: Re: Young Catchers
Article-I.D.: blue.7975
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering
Lines: 115
mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) said:
>
>We know that very, very few players at this age make much of an impact
>in the bigs, especially when they haven't even played AAA ball.
Yes.  But this is *irrelevant*.  You're talking about averages, when we
have lots of information about THIS PLAYER IN PARTICULAR to base our
decisions on.
I might as well say "We know that very, very few people are more than 7 feet
tall, so chances are that Manute Bol is really only 6 foot 4."
>No.  Maybe I need to improve my writing skills.  Lopez, who is very
>ordinary defensively, is not likely to hit so well at age 22
>(having not played at AAA level) that it is probably not a good idea
>to rush him into the Braves lineup in 1993.
Why isn't Lopez likely to hit that well?  He hit that well last year (after
adjusting his stats for park and league and such); he hit better (on an
absolute scale) than Olson or Berryhill did.  By a lot.
As for rushing...  If there really is a qualitative difference between the
minors and the majors that requires a period of adjustment (and I don't
believe there is), then wouldn't you rather waste Lopez's 22-year old good
season than his 23-year old very good season or his 24-year-old excellent
season?  The sooner you get him acclimated, the more of his prime you get to
use.
>>Lopez was hitting .588 over 17 AB when he was cut from spring
>>training.  What does he have to do to earn a chance?  Maybe not a full
>>time job, but at least a couple starts and a few AB for him to prove
>>his worth?
>
>Gee.  I don't know.  17 abs sounds pretty good to me!  About as good
>as your reasoning that the kid should play a back-up role rather
>than start every day at AAA.  Talk about *me* as a GM...
The point was not that 17 AB is a significant sample, but rather that he
hadn't done anything in spring training to cause even a blockhead manager
to question whether his minor league numbers were for real, or to send him
down "until he gets warmed up".
>OK.  Most players are not ready for the bigs at age 22
Most players are *never* ready for the bigs.  What does this have to do
with Javy Lopez?
>Most players
>benefit, rather than being stagnant or hurt, by playing at AAA.
See above.
>Most catchers need to be solid defensively players to help their
>clubs in the bigs.  Those are the arguments against Lopez for the
>Braves for this year.
But I could apply the same reasoning to Frank Thomas or Barry Bonds.  Most
players aren't that good, so they probably won't be that good this year
either.
>Now.  The Braves have two catchers who have demonstrated solid
>abilities to call games, to work with the pitchers, to throw out
>runners.
And demonstrated inabilities to hit their way out of a soap bubble.
>Not superstars mind you, but solid, experienced veterans.
Not superstars, not stars, not even good players.  Maybe average, if we're
being charitable.
>The Braves have a very solid lineup with two big bats in the
>outfield, an excellent platoon at first, a solid MVP candidate
>at third and one of the better hitting shortstops.
Ummm.  Justice is a very fine hitter.  Pendleton might have another big year
in his bat, but he might also spend the season in Hamstring Hell.  Gant is a
big question mark.  The Bream/Hunter platoon is decent (not excellent) and
has rotten OBP or SLG (depending on who's in).  Blauser is a very valuable
bat... for a shortstop.
>The center
>field platoon will probably hit .300.  However good Lopez'
>bat *might* be (given the above) it won't be so much better than
>what they have to offset the differential in experience and
>defensive ability.
Wanna bet?  The difference between Lopez's bat and Olson/Berryhill could be
20 or 30 runs over the course of the season.  Given a choice between a player
with experience and a player who can play, I'll take the latter every time.
>The kid *will* improve playing at AAA,
Just like Keith Mitchell did?
>I am just so surprised I have to spell all of this out.  My
>goodness.  Do you believe the other poster who thinks Lopez
>is being held down because of his future earning potential?
That was me, and you so far your only counter-proposal is that they
really don't understand how good Lopez is, or overvalue experience,
or some combination of the two.  I think my interpretation was more
flattering to the organization.
>Are they idiots who have built this ballclub?
[Well-argued but inflammatory reply deleted.]
--
David M. Tate   |  (i do not know what it is about you that closes
posing as:      |  and opens; only something in me understands
e e (can       |  the pocket of your glove is deeper than Pete Rose's)
dy) cummings |  nobody, not even Tim Raines, has such soft hands
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate)
Subject: Re: Young Catchers
Article-I.D.: blue.7977
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering
Lines: 65
mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) said:
>In article <7862@blue.cis.pitt.edu> genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes:
>
>Well, perhaps if the Braves had no one else worth playing this year it
>would be Lopez in there.  But they do have others worth playing, at
>least in *their* opinion.
Catcher is their weakest position, with the possible exception of second base.
They have a chance to simultaneously replace their biggest offensive problem
spot with a well-above-average offensive player *and* acclimate a highly
promising potential star with no pressure on him to carry the team, and they
want to play *Olson* and *Berryhill* instead?!
>>I disagree, in that I don't think it *is* a _tangible_ skill, any more than
>>leadership is.  I don't deny that it is a *real* skill, and that some catchers
>>may be much better than others at it, but I really don't see any way that we
>>could ever know who they are.  Nichols's Law of Catcher Defense is eerily
>>accurate far too often for me to take defensive assessments of catchers very
>>seriously.
>
>Sorry.  New.  Don't know Nichols' Law.
"A catcher's defensive reputation will be inversely proportional to his
recent offensive level of performance."  Thus, Mickey Tettleton goes (in
the media) from being a no-hit defensive whiz to a slugging thumb-finger
in two short years.  The rule doesn't apply to perceived "superstars", who
get the Gold Glove Offensive Transfer effect instead.  Greg Olson is probably
considered to be a good defensive catcher precisely because he can't hit.
>Don't believe in catchers'
>era.  But I am interested in pitchers' eras with different catchers.
Aren't they the same thing?
>In other words, we know more than they do, so the only logic behind
>a different decision than we would make must be financial.
Either that or just stupidity.
>I presume
>we feel this way about other franchises than Atlanta, no?
Of course.
>>Is it fair to the young players?  No.  Does it make organizational sense?
>>I think it does.
>
>Well if it does make organizational sense, one can hardly fault them
>for their decisions.  I mean, please don't tell me how to run my
>business.  Especially when I'm being successful.
One could make the same sort of argument in other cases.  Pete Rose, in
pursuing Ty Cobb's record, was a huge gate attraction (and national media
magnet).  The Reds made a lot of money off that; they also wasted the prime
of Eric Davis.  That may be "good business", but that doesn't mean I don't
loathe them for it.
--
David M. Tate   |  (i do not know what it is about you that closes
posing as:      |  and opens; only something in me understands
e e (can       |  the pocket of your glove is deeper than Pete Rose's)
dy) cummings |  nobody, not even Tim Raines, has such soft hands
From: jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez)
Subject: MLB Standings and Scores for Tue, Apr 6th, 1993
Keywords: mlb, 04.06
Article-I.D.: agate.1ps77v$5dr
Distribution: world
Organization: JTC Enterprises Sports Division (Major League Baseball Dept.)
Lines: 72
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu
MLB Standings and Scores for Tuesday, April 6th, 1993
(including yesterday's games)
NATIONAL WEST	      Won  Lost   Pct.    GB   Last 10   Streak    Home   Road
Atlanta Braves         01   00   1.000    --     1-0      Won 1   00-00  01-00
Cincinnati Reds        01   00   1.000    --     1-0      Won 1   01-00  00-00
San Diego Padres       00   00    .000   0.5     0-0       ---    00-00  00-00
San Francisco Giants   00   00    .000   0.5     0-0       ---    00-00  00-00
Colorado Rockies       00   01    .000   1.0     0-1     Lost 1   00-00  00-01
Houston Astros         00   01    .000   1.0     0-1     Lost 1   00-01  00-00
Los Angeles Dodgers    00   01    .000   1.0     0-1     Lost 1   00-00  00-01
NATIONAL EAST
Florida Marlins        01   00   1.000    --     1-0      Won 1   01-00  00-00
New York Mets          01   00   1.000    --     1-0      Won 1   01-00  00-00
Philadelphia Phillies  01   00   1.000    --     1-0      Won 1   00-00  01-00
Pittsburgh Pirates     00   00    .000   0.5     0-0       ---    00-00  00-00
St. Louis Cardinals    00   00    .000   0.5     0-0       ---    00-00  00-00
Chicago Cubs           00   01    .000   1.0     0-1     Lost 1   00-01  00-00
Montreal Expos         00   01    .000   1.0     0-1     Lost 1   00-00  00-01
AMERICAN WEST         Won  Lost   Pct.    GB   Last 10   Streak    Home   Road
Oakland Athletics      01   00   1.000    --     1-0      Won 1   01-00  00-00
Texas Rangers          01   00   1.000    --     1-0      Won 1   00-00  01-00
California Angels      00   00    .000   0.5     0-0       ---    00-00  00-00
Chicago White Sox      00   00    .000   0.5     0-0       ---    00-00  00-00
Minnesota Twins        00   00    .000   0.5     0-0       ---    00-00  00-00
Seattle Mariners       00   00    .000   0.5     0-0       ---    00-00  00-00
Kansas City Royals     00   01    .000   1.0     0-1     Lost 1   00-01  00-00
AMERICAN EAST
Boston Red Sox         01   00   1.000    --     1-0      Won 1   00-00  01-00
New York Yankees       01   00   1.000    --     1-0      Won 1   00-00  01-00
Milwaukee Brewers      00   00    .000   0.5     0-0       ---    00-00  00-00
Toronto Blue Jays      00   00    .000   0.5     0-0       ---    00-00  00-00
Baltimore Orioles      00   01    .000   1.0     0-1     Lost 1   00-01  00-00
Cleveland Indians      00   01    .000   1.0     0-1     Lost 1   00-01  00-00
Detroit Tigers         00   01    .000   1.0     0-1     Lost 1   00-00  00-01
YESTERDAY'S SCORES
NATIONAL LEAGUE				AMERICAN LEAGUE
Montreal	1			New York	9
Cincinnati	2			Cleveland	1
Atlanta		1			Texas		7
Chicago		0			Baltimore	4
Los Angeles	3			Boston		3
Florida		6			Kansas City	1
Philadelphia	3			Detroit		4
Houston		1			Oakland		9
Colorado	0			California   IDLE
New York	3			Chicago      IDLE
Pittsburgh   IDLE			Milwaukee    IDLE
St. Louis    IDLE			Minnesota    IDLE
San Diego    IDLE			Seattle	     IDLE
San FranciscoIDLE			Toronto      IDLE
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Hernandez          |    RAMS  | |    /.\  ******* _|_|_  / |   LAKERS
jtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU  |   KINGS  | |__ |   | DODGERS _|_|_  | |   RAIDERS
jtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU  |  ANGELS  |____||_|_| *******  | |  |___|  CLIPPERS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dansmith@mcopn2.dseg.ti.com (Danny Smith)
Subject: Braves win opener
Nntp-Posting-Host: s355.dseg.ti.com
Reply-To: dansmith@mcopn2.dseg.ti.com
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc.
Lines: 15
Well, Maddux looked excellent as the Braves shutout the Cubs 1 - 0.
Justice drove in the only run with an RBI single in the first. Get
ready for him to have a monster year. He is now hitting the ball to
the opposite field with a lot of power to go with his natural
power to right field and his good batting eye. If he stays healthy
which he should (his back is full strength this year) he should
get over 100 RBI and close to 30 HR.
In another note, the Marlins got off to a good start beating the
Dodgers. I believe the score was 6 - 3 but I'm not sure. I wish
them and the Rockies well this year. Hell. I think it would be
funny to watch the Dodgers hit the cellar again this year.
Dan Smith
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Subject: Re: Rickey Henderson
Article-I.D.: transfer.1psbdn$lru
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Lines: 57
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com
In article <1993Apr6.155118.5779@ra.msstate.edu> js1@Isis.MsState.Edu
(Jiann-ming Su) writes:
> In article <ls1d6vINNs65@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM>
str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM (Todd Rader) writes:
> >Stay in school.  You have a lot to learn.
>
> Learn what?  I know that 3 million dollars is A LOT of money.  I
know
> Rickey Henderson doesn't have a career out of baseball.  I know if
he
> didn't have baseball, he wouldn't be making near the money he is
now.
>
And Michael Jackson, Jack Nicholson, and Bill Cosby wouldn't be
making near as much money if they weren't entertainers. So what's
your point?
> I just don't understand how some athlete, who only plays a sport
for a
> living for millions of dollars, say he is not being paid enough.
>
> If nobody will sign him for his asking price, he will be the one
hurting.
> The A's will still win without him.
Will they?  You can't usually take away one of the team's best
players and still expect them to win.  Or do you think the
Pirates will continue to win without Barry Bonds.
>
> Remeber, many of these athletes have NOTHING if not for their
athletic
> ability.  NOTHING.  They are getting paid MUCH more than most hard
working
> citizens, and they are complaining of not enough pay.
So. Again, Jack Nicholson gets paid much more than most hard
working citizens (and much more than Rickey Henderson for that
matter).
>
> I don't have a problem with them making millions.  My problem is
when the
> say they aren't being paid enough, when they already get 3
million--also,
> their numbers get worse.
The reason the latter often happens is that many of these folks
start making the real big salaries late in their career, when they
are on the decline. (There are exceptions, of course. Dave Parker
fell apart after making his first million because he put most
of that million up his nose.)
--
Jim Mann
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
From: jhunter@mta.ca (John Hunter)
Subject: White Sox Mailing List?
Reply-To: jhunter@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada
Lines: 9
Hi Gang,
I'd like to subscribe to the White Sox mailing list, if one exists.
Can someone please e-mail me the address?
Thanks alot,
-John
jhunter@mta.ca
From: jpopovich@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
Subject: Re: New Uniforms
Distribution: world
Organization: Georgetown University
Lines: 10
While I enjoy the trend towards the more classic style of uniform -
and I disagree with the person who wants a return to the non-gray road
uniforms - it should be remembered that one of the, if not THE reason
for the redesigning of uniforms, especially hats (re: the new road all
green A's caps and the cardinal navy blue road cap), is the marketing
money to be made in sales of new merchandise.
Jeffrey Popovich
jpopovich@guvax.georgetown.edu
From: fath@mbcrr.dfci.harvard.edu (Michael Fath)
Subject: HELP:  looking for Cleveland Sports Mailing List Info
Organization: Dana-Farber Cancer Institute
Lines: 14
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mbcrr.harvard.edu
I'm looking for the address to join the Cleveland Sports Mailing List.
If anyone knows it, I would be greatful if they could email a copy of
it to me.  If you are a member, just mail me one of the List's letters.
I could probably figure it out from there.
Thanks!
--
MM   MM FFFFF 	Michael J. Fath
M M M M F	Dept of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics
M  M  M FFF     Harvard Medical School
M     M F       Boston, MA 02115	            fath@mbcrr.harvard.edu
From: dpeterik@iastate.edu (Dan Peterik)
Subject: Re: Brewer Notes
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Lines: 26
In <30MAR93.02086551.0010@MUSIC.LIB.MATC.EDU> PFAN <PFAN@MUSIC.LIB.MATC.EDU> writes:
>For those of you who know who Bernie Brewer is, he's back.  The
>team mascot, if you will, was given his walking papers a few years
>ago, but the fans voted him back last season and he will be perched
>in the his familiar home in the outfield and will again slide down
>into a barrel of beer when home runs are hit.
That is great to hear I just may have to take a raod trip to Milwakee this year and see that again.  Last time I saw Bernie Brewer was at the age of 10 and I am now 21 thanks for this post.
>One final note, Bill Spiers is leading the Brewers with 13 RBI's in
>exhibition play.  Looks like he's bouncing back nicely from back
>problems.
Good to Bill is getting better form the limited coverage we get here in Iowa
I know that this will be a great season for the BREW CREW!!
>/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
>| Pete Fanning, Computer Operator  | "Leadership is ACTION |
>| Office of Information Technology |  ...NOT Position"     |
>| Milwaukee Area Technical College |     -- D. H. McGannon |
>|**********************************************************|
>| Email: pfan@music.lib.matc.edu (Internet)                |
>|  -or-  Pete.Fanning@f71.n154.z1.fidonet.org              |
>\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: luigi@sgi.com (Randy Palermo)
Subject: Re: Grateful Dead?
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA
Lines: 16
Nntp-Posting-Host: bullpen.csd.sgi.com
In article <93095.172834IO21087@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO21087@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes:
>Being a baseball fan and a fan of the above mentioned band I was
>wondering if anyone could clue me in on whether the Dead (or members
>of) sang the national anthem at todays Giant opener?
>
>I would imagine that it is a bit too early for anyone to know, but
>an answer would be greatly appreciated.
>
It is my understanding that the Dead will sing the NA at the Giants
home opener on Mon. 4/12. The Giants are opening today in St. Louis.
luigi
--
Randy Palermo   luigi@csd.sgi.com    Fax: (415)961-6502
Silicon Graphics Computer Systems, 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd Mt. View, CA 94039
"Play an accordion, go to jail. That's the LAW"
From: kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian)
Subject: Re: 15-day, 30-day, 60-day disabled list questions
Article-I.D.: bernard.kbanaian.448.734117444
Organization: Pitzer College
Lines: 25
In article <derichC52GJE.FJA@netcom.com> derich@netcom.com (Scotty*Tissue) writes:
>
>  Whenever a person is put on the 15-day, 30-day or 60-day,
> the person is on the list longer than the specificed time
>
>  I've seen a person on the 15-day for maybe 4 months last year, I don't
> remember what...
>
> I just need a little clarification on the disabled list specifications.
>
I believe we are down to two:  the 15-day and the 60-day.  (I don't remember
a 30-day, but rather a 21-day.  Anyways, it's gone now.)  The period length
is a minimum, not a maximum.  You can keep a guy on the 15-day for as long
as you want, IF he's still certified as injured.  The player must be
periodically re-evaluated to determine if he's still injured (thus you
cannot park a player on the DL who maybe is out of options and you do not
wish to expose to waivers).  If you get someone qualified for the 60-day
that reduces the frequency of re-evaluations.  There is no longer, I
believe, any limit to the number of players you can place on the DL.  When
there was, you often had to choose and juggle your injured players between
the lists.
--King "Sparky" Banaian				|"No taxes:  No new taxes,
kbanaian@pitzer.claremont.edu			|no old taxes, we are taxed
Dept. of Economics, Pitzer College		|enough." -- Rep. Alan Keyes
Latest 1993 GDP forecast:  2.4%		| (please run, Alan!)
From: jonesk@ur.msstate.edu
Subject: re: Mo Sanford
Article-I.D.: ra.1993Apr6.173224.13148
Reply-To: jonesk@ur.msstate.edu
Organization: Mississippi State University
Lines: 6
Nntp-Posting-Host: ur117.ur.msstate.edu
In article <1993Apr3.045040.10480@ra.msstate.edu> js1@jazz.cc.msstate.edu (Jiann-ming Su) writes:
>Does any know if Mo Sanford, Rockies pitcher, got cut?  He use to be with the`
>Reds, but was drafted in the expansion draft.
>
I believe he was sent down to AAA.
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Re: My Predictions For 1993
Article-I.D.: netnews.118466
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 17
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
In article <1993Apr5.183304.29191@oswego.Oswego.EDU> iacs3650@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Kevin Mundstock) writes:
>Since everyone else seems to be running wild with predictions, I've
>decided to add my own fuel to the fire:
>They might seem a bit normal, but there are a few (albeit, small) surprises.
>AL Manager of the Year-Buck Showalter
What makes you think Buck will still be in New York at year's end with
George back?  :-)
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"Next time you go over my head, I'll have yours on a platter."
-- Cmdr. Benjamin Sisko, 1993
From: neuharth@hardy.u.washington.edu (John Neuharth)
Subject: Re: New Uniforms
Article-I.D.: shelley.1pserkINNltg
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 16
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu
jpopovich@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
>While I enjoy the trend towards the more classic style of uniform -
>and I disagree with the person who wants a return to the non-gray road
>uniforms - it should be remembered that one of the, if not THE reason
>for the redesigning of uniforms, especially hats (re: the new road all
>green A's caps and the cardinal navy blue road cap), is the marketing
>money to be made in sales of new merchandise.
no kidding...just ask the White Sox...
too bad, really...
-John Neuharth
neuharth@u.washington.edu
From: neuharth@hardy.u.washington.edu (John Neuharth)
Subject: Re: Jim Lefebvre is an idiot.
Article-I.D.: shelley.1psf0dINNm4q
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 20
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu
rickc@krill.corp.sgi.com (Richard Casares) writes:
>In article <1993Apr5.190141.17623@bsu-ucs>, 00bjgood@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
>writes:
>|> I just wanted to let everyone know that I have lost what little respect
>|> I have
>|> for Jim LeFebvre after seeing today's Cubs game.
>|> 						A dishard Cub fan
>Yes, I also wonder if they can win with this manager.
>I never believed managers had that much to do with winning
>until I saw how much they had to do with losing....
I like the Mariners a lot, but my heart belongs to the Cubs...You can imagine
my frustration when I saw the Cubs nabbing LeFebvre...ARHGGHRGHH!
-John Neuharth
neuharth@u.washington.edu
From: erics@netcom.com (Eric Smith)
Subject: Re: MARLINS WIN! MARLINS WIN!
Article-I.D.: netcom.ericsC52qCC.6Fu
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 19
genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes:
>dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu said:
>>I only caught the tail end of this one on ESPN.  Does anyone have a report?
>>(Look at all that Teal!!!!  BLEAH!!!!!!!!!)
>Maybe it's just me, but the combination of those *young* faces peeking out
>from under oversized aqua helmets screams "Little League" in every fibre of
>my being...
Hmm, it seems the Little Leaguers didn't do too badly against Hershiser,
Strawberry, E. Davis, and the rest of the Dodgers yesterday ...   :-)
-----
Eric Smith
erics@netcom.com
erics@infoserv.com
CI$: 70262,3610
From: erics@netcom.com (Eric Smith)
Subject: Re: harry and candy
Article-I.D.: netcom.ericsC52qLD.6L2
Distribution: world,local
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 24
f67709907@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin) writes:
>RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu writes:
>> i'm watching a cubs-rockies spring training game, and i thought you'd
>> all like to know the particular way that harry caray butchers "maldonado".
>> it seems to be "mal-n-dal-nado".
>But I like the way he butchers Andres Galarraga's name.
>It comes out like "gahlah rrrraggggah".
>And don't forget his frequent references to the great SF Giant star
>Bobby Bonds!
What about Thaaammy Thotha? I for one was really sorry to hear that the
Cubs had sent Heathcliff Slocumb to the minors!  :-)
-----
Eric Smith
erics@netcom.com
erics@infoserv.com
CI$: 70262,3610
From: mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer)
Subject: Re: Young Catchers
Article-I.D.: netcom.mssC52qMx.768
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Lines: 86
In article <7975@blue.cis.pitt.edu> genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes:
>mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) said:
>>
>>We know that very, very few players at this age make much of an impact
>>in the bigs, especially when they haven't even played AAA ball.
>
>Yes.  But this is *irrelevant*.  You're talking about averages, when we
>have lots of information about THIS PLAYER IN PARTICULAR to base our
>decisions on.
Do you really have *that* much information on him?  Really?
>Why isn't Lopez likely to hit that well?  He hit that well last year (after
>adjusting his stats for park and league and such); he hit better (on an
>absolute scale) than Olson or Berryhill did.  By a lot.
I don't know.  You tell me.  What percentage of players reach or
exceed their MLE's *in their rookie season*?  We're talking about
1993, you know.
>
>As for rushing...  If there really is a qualitative difference between the
>minors and the majors that requires a period of adjustment (and I don't
>believe there is), then wouldn't you rather waste Lopez's 22-year old good
>season than his 23-year old very good season or his 24-year-old excellent
>season?  The sooner you get him acclimated, the more of his prime you get to
>use.
If that were your purpose, maybe.  Offerman spent 1992 getting
acclimated, if you will.  The Dodgers as a team paid a big price
that season.  Perhaps they will reap the benefits down the road.
Do you really think they would have done what they did if they
were competing for a pennant?
>
>>>Lopez was hitting .588 over 17 AB when he was cut from spring
>>>training.  What does he have to do to earn a chance?  Maybe not a full
>>>time job, but at least a couple starts and a few AB for him to prove
>>>his worth?
>>
>The point was not that 17 AB is a significant sample, but rather that he
>hadn't done anything in spring training to cause even a blockhead manager
>to question whether his minor league numbers were for real, or to send him
>down "until he gets warmed up".
For a stat-head, I'm amazed that you put any credence in spring
training.  Did you notice who he got those 10 (!) hits off of, or
are you going to tell me that it doesn't make a difference?
>>The kid *will* improve playing at AAA,
>
>Just like Keith Mitchell did?
Wait a minute.  I missed something here.  First, forget Keith
Mitchell.  Are you saying that a kid who moves from AA to AAA
and then does not improve would have been better off making a
direct leap to the majors?  If a player does well at AA and then
does not improve at AAA, isn't that a sign that maybe he doesn't
belong in the bigs?
Now, Keith Mitchell.  As I recall (no stat books handy - surprise!)
he jumped from AA to Atlanta in 1991.  He did so well that he was
returned to the minors, where he didn't do very well at all.  Now
his career is in jeopardy.  So how does he fit in with your
point.  Good MLE's in AA.  Moved him right to the big club.  Now
he's one step away from being traded or moved out of baseball.
Duh.
>That was me, and you so far your only counter-proposal is that they
>really don't understand how good Lopez is, or overvalue experience,
>or some combination of the two.  I think my interpretation was more
>flattering to the organization.
Well, I've cast my lot.  Certainly you may understand better how
good Lopez is.  And I may overvalue experience.  But neither one
of us runs a baseball team.
--	The Beastmaster
--
Mark Singer
mss@netcom.com
From: zappala@pollux.usc.edu (Daniel Zappala)
Subject: Re: Marlins first 3 RBI
Article-I.D.: pollux.1psiepINNlj0
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 18
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu
In article <1psgriINNi1@rpco10.acslab.umbc.edu>, cs106116@umbc.edu (cs106116) writes:
|>
|> Hey,
|>
|>    I was watching the Orioles' game on TV yesterday (Monday)
|> when a report came in to the booth that the first 3 runs came
|> in on a three-run single.  Did this really happen?  If it did,
|> how?  They said that the leadoff man knocked them in.  What
|> exactly happened.  Thanks.
|>
Walt Weiss tripled just barely inside the right field line and into the
corner, driving in Santiago and Conine.  These were the first two
RBIs.  The third came later when Weiss was knocked in.
Daniel
From: fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush)
Subject: Re: My '93 picks (with only one comment)
Article-I.D.: news.12786
Organization: Biochemistry
Lines: 50
Nntp-Posting-Host: bruchner.biochem.duke.edu
In article <1psbg8INNgjj@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>
rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert) writes:
>In article <jfr2.733938351@Ra.MsState.Edu> jfr2@Ra.MsState.Edu (Jackie F.
>Russell) writes:
>> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:
>
>> >National League West
>>
>> >	Cincinnati      ----
>> >	Houston          5.0
>> >	Atlanta          8.0
>> ARGH! Here is where you are obviously dead wrong. Not since the Yankees of
>> the 20's and 30's has a team been so nicely setup as this years(and years
>> to come) Braves. I don't think that the All-Star team will be able to beat
>
>This may be an appropriate comparison.
>The 1929-31 Yankees finshed 2nd, 3rd and 2nd finshing
>18, 16 and 13-1/2 games out of first.
>In 1933,'34 and '35 they also finished second ( though they were only
>7, 7 and 3 games out).
>Even great teams can lose - That's why they play the season.
>(on the other hand... I'm still picking the Braves to go all the way)
>
Um, surely you didn't intend to compare the '93 Reds with the
29 Philidelphia A's.  The Yankees were finishing 2nd to
a team that was as good as the 26-28 Yankees, while the
Yankees had aged some from their peak years.  Ruth and Gehrig
couldn't play every position simultaneously.
IMO, given the various ages of the Braves and Reds this season,
that the Braves will be closer to their peak, while the Reds
have slightly passed their peak.
Also, if you're going to compare Braves and Yankees, a more appropriate
comparison to the '93 Braves might be the '23 Yankees.
After falling short two years in a row in exciting World Series,
both teams won/will win the Series this year, despite the
heroics of some old fart on the other team.
(Casey Stengel/ Dave Winfield???)
-------------------------------------------------------
Eric Roush		fierkelab@	bchm.biochem.duke.edu
"I am a Marxist, of the Groucho sort"
Grafitti, Paris, 1968
TANSTAAFL! (although the Internet comes close.)
--------------------------------------------------------
From: fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush)
Subject: Re: quick way to tell if your local beat writer is dumb.
Article-I.D.: news.12787
Organization: Biochemistry
Lines: 28
Nntp-Posting-Host: bruchner.biochem.duke.edu
In article <1993Apr06.062907.108109@locus.com> aardvark@spica.la.locus.com
(Warren Usui) writes:
>In article <Apr.5.16.22.48.1993.11331@pilot.njin.net> gajarsky@pilot.njin.net
(Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite) writes:
>>anyone who writes "dean palmer has 2 homers  - at this pace, he'll
>> have 324 home runs!" should be shot.
Now, on the other hand, Juan Gonzales probably DOES have a shot at
324 HR's.  ;).
>The Dodgers after one inning of play have committed one error.  At this rate
>they'll have 1,455 errors this season!
>Well maybe I'm right this time...
Actually, you might be underpredicting?  ;)
-------------------------------------------------------
Eric Roush		fierkelab@	bchm.biochem.duke.edu
"I am a Marxist, of the Groucho sort"
Grafitti, Paris, 1968
TANSTAAFL! (although the Internet comes close.)
--------------------------------------------------------
From: rudy@netcom.com (Rudy Wade)
Subject: Re: YANKKES 1 GAME CLOSER
Article-I.D.: netcom.rudyC52rBD.86w
Organization: Home of the Brave
Lines: 18
My god, hope we don't have to put up with this kind of junk all season!
In article <002251w.5.734117130@axe.acadiau.ca> 002251w@axe.acadiau.ca (JASON WALTER WORKS) writes:
>    The N.Y.Yankees, are now one game closer to the A.L.East pennant.  They
>clobbered Cleveland, 9-1, on a fine pitching performance by Key, and two
>homeruns by Tartabull(first M.L.baseball to go out this season), and a three
How many home runs by Tartabull?  Just 1, right, you must be thinking
of Dean Palmer or Juan Gonzalez (both of Texas) who each had 2 homers.
>run homer by Nokes.  For all of you who didn't pick Boggs in your pools,
>tough break, he had a couple hits, and drove in a couple runs(with many more
I don't know how many to follow, but he was 1 for 4.
> GO YANKS., Mattingly for g.glove, and MVP, and Abbot for Cy Young.
Spare us, please!
From: lloyd@uclink.berkeley.edu (Lloyd Nebres)
Subject: Re: MARLINS WIN! MARLINS WIN!
Article-I.D.: 128.lloyd-060493114752
Distribution: world
Organization: UC Berkeley
Lines: 14
NNTP-Posting-Host: tol3mac15.soe.berkeley.edu
>>(Look at all that Teal!!!!  BLEAH!!!!!!!!!)
Indeed, if the color teal on a team's uniforms is any indication of the
future, the Marlins are in dire trouble! Refer to the San Jose Sharks for
proof... But I have hope for the Marlins. I was a sometime member of the
Rene Lachemann fan club at the Oakland Coliseum, and have a deep respect
for the guy. He's a gem. And, of course, Walt Weiss gives that franchise
class. But yeah... whoever designed those uniforms was guilty of a paucity
of style and imagination. Ugghhh!
Lloyd R. Nebres, UC Berkeley
Internet: lloyd@uclink.berkeley.edu
Vox: (510) 848-9760 or 643-9390
"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 carrying a ton of CD-ROMs..."
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Young Catchers
Article-I.D.: cs.1993Apr6.185951.19058
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Lines: 17
In article <mssC52rIL.8E0@netcom.com> mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) writes:
> Your speculation (and
>others) that Lopez will produce better than the two proven veterans
>is nothing more than speculation, no matter how well founded.
Your speculation that the two proven veterans will produce better
than Lopez is also no more than speculation.  It *does* make
a difference whether the speculation is well-founded or not.
>Obviously, the Braves believe they can win with the catching they
>have, and I agree.  If they change their minds, they'll call up Lopez.
Though this is a good point.  The one speculation is "safer",
because it can be reversed.
Cheers,
-Valentine
From: ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary The Burgermeister Huckabay)
Subject: Call for Votes - DTBL MVP and CY.  Please vote!
Article-I.D.: ucdavis.C52s31.49q
Distribution: na
Organization: Harold Brooks Hot & Sour Soup Club, Ltd.
Lines: 79
The regular season of the 1992-93 Davis Tabletop Baseball League has
just come to an end.  To help us with next year's league, I would
appreciate it if you would take a couple of minutes and vote for
our league MVP and CY winners.  These awards, and players' standings
in them, will inflate their salaries for next year's league.
Please vote for 5 in each category, in order.  For example...
1.  Barry Bonds
2.  Frank Thomas
3.  Biff Pocoroba
4.  Shooty Babitt
5.  "Lips" Lundy.
Please do NOT vote for pitchers in MVP voting for this league.  Each team
in the league gets one candidate for MVP, and one for CY.  Defensive
position is listed where applicable, along with an abbreviation of
their performance there (E=Excellent, V=Very Good, A=Average,
P=Poor, B=Very Poor) Thanks... please reply by April 10.
For the record - the season was 144 games long.  Thanks for your help.
MVP Candidates
Name       G  AB  H   2B 3B HR  R  RBI BB  K   SB  CS  IBB  BA/OBP/SLG DEF
Griffey   124 338 99  27 0  16 44  64  39  50  0   0   16  293/362/515 8-P
EMartinez 139 562 176 55 3  14 85  87  44  77  14  5   6   313/359/496 5-A
Sandberg  137 559 163 35 6  20 100 102 64  67  4   1   2   292/360/483 4-V
Ventura   144 562 161 32 0  9  83  59  80  61  0   1   3   286/374/391 5-E
McGriff   148 533 150 25 1  33 89  98  102 132 0   3   20  281/398/518 3-P
McGwire   138 487 134 31 1  34 108 104 128 100 0   3   38  275/425/552 3-E
RAlomar   127 515 159 23 8  5  85  34  70  67  54 11   1   309/389/414 4-P
Dykstra   144 582 157 27 1  3  94  60  65  67  89 20   3   270/339/335 8-A
Butler    137 534 158 13 13 1  82  50  83  69  13 19   0   296/386/375 8-B
Deer      119 425 103 26 1  33 66  75  44  141 1   3   2   242/311/541 9-V
Bonds     145 465 143 39 4  33 128 101 187 62  23  5   68  308/502/622 7-E
Hrbek     129 423 112 21 0  12 62  52  80  77  1   0   2   265/380/400 3-P
JGonzalez 135 543 121 17 1  38 59  85  28  146 0   0   2   223/259/468 8-B
Some players missed time due to injuries, others were sat down at the end
to avoid the possibility of injury.  There are better players than those
on this list, but each team gets one and only one candidate.  Some players
played more than 144 games due to being traded to teams with more games
left in the same time span.  Now, on to the pitchers...
Name       ERA  G   W L  S   IP    H  BB   K   HR   GS  CG  ShO  WP
DMartinez  3.01 30 15 8  0  209.1 173 76  124  12   30   2   0   2
Dibble     0.80 37 0  2  25 33.2  21  8    46  1    0    0   0   0
Rijo       3.40 26 13 7  0  177.1 175 56  133  12   26   5   1   5
Mussina    2.92 29 15 7  0  206.2 167 46  119  15   29   3   1   2
Benes      3.24 28 14 9  0  194.1 172 53  127  13   28   4   1   1
KHill      2.93 27 16 7  0  196.2 144 64  166  20   26   8   3   1
Smoltz     3.62 28 11 11 0  186.1 177 66  158  9    28   6   1   7
Cone       3.46 28 14 7  0  197.2 152 103 193  10   28   7   1   5
Drabek     2.79 29 13 10 0  206.2 166 55  131  16   29   4   0   2
Tewksbury  3.28 25 12 8  0  172.2 168 36  64   8    25   4   2   1
Clemens    2.94 31 16 11 0  223.1 198 71  178  13   31   17! 2   1
Tomlin     2.48 28 12 5  0  196.0 172 42  97   8    27   1   0   2
Farr       0.81 38 4  1  17 55.1  28  25  38   1    0    0   0   0
There you have it.  Curt Schilling threw a perfect game during the year,
and Ken Hill threw a no-hitter.  Rob Dibble had pitched 32 scoreless
innings to start the year, only to choke in the last two games to cost
the Perot's Giant Sucking Sounds a playoff spot.
If you want stats of more players, they are available by request.  Please
take the time to reply if you can.  Thanks.
--
*     Gary Huckabay      * Kevin Kerr: The Al Feldstein of the mid-90's! *
* "A living argument for * If there's anything we love more than a huge  *
*  existence of parallel * .sig, it's someone quoting 100 lines to add   *
*       universes."      * 3 or 4 new ones.  And consecutive posts, too. *
--
'''
(o o)
/----------------------------oOO--(_)--OOo------------------------------------\
|    David Zavatson     |Mein Schatz, es ist soweit.  Unsere Liebe ist vorbei.|
From: fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush)
Subject: Re: Young Catchers
Article-I.D.: news.12799
Organization: Biochemistry
Lines: 139
Nntp-Posting-Host: bruchner.biochem.duke.edu
Since I was the one responsible for these divergent threads of
approx. 40+ posts (going back to: The Braves could be better off
if an injury happens), I may as well inject a little more
fuel to the flame!
1)  Back at the beginning of Spring Training, I though
Lopez would make the squad easily.  Olson was still
recovering from his late-season injury (knee, I believe),
and there were questions as to whether he would be
able to play before June.  And then Berryhill was dinged up.
I was looking forward to this, because I believe that Lopez
can hit AND field the position.  Before last season, he was
the Braves "Defensive Catcher" prospect, while Brian Deak was
the Braves "Offensive Catcher" prospect.  Besides, Olson
and Berryhill couldn't hit their way out of a wet cardboard
box, and don't walk enough to be useful.
But Olson recovered quickly, Berryhill recovered, and the Braves went
with the two vets.  I still say that if one of those two had been down
at the start of the season, he wouldn't have gotten his job back.
2)  There is a certain logic to keeping Olson and Berryhill around.
After all, ML catchers are in short supply and suffer from wear and
tear.  There are teams out there without ONE average ML catcher
(California and Seattle come to mind).  Certainly, trying to
move Olson or Berryhill through waivers would be unlikely to work.
Plus, you'd have to eat that salary, which isn't huge, but isn't
tiddleywinks either (I think Olson's at about $800,000, Berryhill
at $450,000, but that's only what I recall).
3)  Yes, I think arbitration-eligibility may have a role to
play in this also.  What is it, that 5/6 of the 2+year players
aren't eligible for arbitration?   Only the 1/6 that were on the roster
the longest are eligible?  Of course, the system may change,
but the extent of that change is not yet known.  From a business
standpoint, it may make sense to keep Lopez down until June/the
first time Olson/Berryhill go on the DL.
4)  I am still disappointed that Lopez isn't on the team.
I still prefer to think of myself as a fan when it comes to the Braves,
and the truth is that I'd rather see our best team on the field,
which, IMO, includes Lopez.
Of course,today we play the Cubs.  Hopefully, we won't need him. ;)
As for the Schuerholz/Cox conversation, I imagine it went
like this:  (Remember, they've BOTH been GM's)
(the following is not meant to be read by the humor-impaired)
Cox:  OK, we've sent Jones down.  His fielding could be a
little smoother.  Besides, Blauser can hit OK and his fielding
is better than it used to be.
Schuerholz:  Well, we'll have to send Nieves down too.  Deion
just won't sign that baseball only contract.  We can't count
on him in October, so we have to keep Nixon around for the
defense.  Besides, Gorman's not ready to give up on
Billy Hatcher yet.  Once Hatcher's gone AND Deion signs,
we can move Nixon for Frankie Rodriguez.  That ought to
give us some pitching depth in 1995.
Cox:  Yep, that'll be nice.  Too bad Deion won't sign.
OK, I'll look for Nieves when Justice starts having
Berry-Berry...er, back problems again.  Now, what about
Klesko?
Schuerholz:  Well, we've still got to fork out another 1.5 mil
for Bream.  If we keep Klesko, we either lose the money
or Cabrera.  I keep dangling Sid in front of Dal Maxwell,
but somehow he doesn't seem to be the same GM.  First
Jeffries for Jose, and now Whiten for Clark!  If he
gets rid of Brian Jordan, then I'd HAVE to believe that he
and Whitey Herzog switched bodies at the Winter Meetings!
Cox:  OK, keep trying on Bream, and I'll wait til the trading
deadline for my Hunter/Klesko platoon.  Maybe I can get a few
extra at-bats for Cabrera while we wait.  Try California...
if Snow starts slowly, maybe WhiteyDal will bite on Sid.
And if that doesn't work, then perhaps Sid's knees
could be "persuaded" to act up.  There's always the
15-day DL!  Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!
Schuerholz:  What about Caraballo?
Cox:  Well, he's not that much better than Lemke.  Maybe if he starts
in Richmond, he'll start walking more.  Besides, if he's going to be
arbitration-eligible, better to stretch him out so that we actually
get some value from him before he makes the big bucks.
Schuerholz:  Now, let's see.  That leaves Lopez.
Cox:  NOOOOO!  I gotta keep Lopez!  Sure, I didn't think Olson
would recover this quickly.  Maybe I can talk Caminiti into
running into him again?
Schuerholz:  Nope, Lopez has gotta go.  You know that he'll get
$3 million in arbitration.  May as well put it off that one
extra year.  Besides, until Olson's shown his stuff a little
bit, I can't trade him.  Besides, Berryhill's a left-handed
hitter.  You know how rare that is?
Cox:  Don't you mean a left-handed whiffer?  Pretty common,
if you ask me.  I mean, he made Pat Borders look good in
the World Series.  PAT BORDERS!!!
Schuerholz:  Hey, you're the one who wouldn't write Lopez
into the lineup.
Cox:  Well, you're the one who went out and got me Jeff
Reardon!  Besides, I thought Lopez wouldn't be used
to our pitching staff's stuff.  He got some time with
them this spring...looked pretty good.  Come on, surely
we only need to keep one stiff behind the plate?
Schuerholz:  Yeah, but which stiff?  Whichever one we keep
will be hurt by May.
Cox:  OK, OK, you made your point.  Keep them both.  Surely
one of them will be on the DL by June at the latest.  Then I
can call up Lopez, and then we can win 110 games!  The Pennant!
THE WORLD SERIES!  I'll be up there with John McGraw!  Casey
Stengel!  Earl Weaver!  Oh, they laughed at me in Toronto,
but have you ever had to deal with George Bell?  I'll finally
get my just reward!  Mwa-ha-ha-ha!
Schuerholz:  Easy, Bobby.  Have you been taking those
"happy pills" left around by Chuck Tanner?  Why'd you
ever hire that guy anyhow?
Cox:  Don't ask me; ask Ted.
-------------------------------------------------------
Eric Roush		fierkelab@	bchm.biochem.duke.edu
"I am a Marxist, of the Groucho sort"
Grafitti, Paris, 1968
TANSTAAFL! (although the Internet comes close.)
--------------------------------------------------------
From: king@cogsci.ucsd.edu (Jonathan King)
Subject: Re: Binaca Blast Deep Drive Derby (BBDDD) Returns
Article-I.D.: network.1psmbr$qi
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Lines: 40
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.ucsd.edu
The Engimatic Vincent Gray writes:
>king@cogsci.ucsd.edu (Jonathan King) writes:
>>
>> Even less publicized than this, however, was that the $300,000
>> didn't come from the Padres, but from an un-named source, and that the
>> money didn't go to the Blue Jays.  In Toronto, the money was diverted
>> into a London bank account owned by a shadowy character named Vincent
>> Gray.
>
>I should be so lucky: the account number must have been rejected! :-)
Oh, come on.  Everybody on the net has heard about "plausible deniability".
You're not fooling anybody.
>> Soon after that, Gray and Palmer sent word to Ottawa that Canada had
>> achieved absolute superiority over the United States in the field of
>> baseballistic research, as she controlled both the Acker-Cook
>> Pitch-Alike Contest and the Binaca Blast Research Institute.  The Prime
>> Minister smiled.
>
>I hope not.  To think that I would inadvertantly give any pleasure to
>Mulroney _really_ ruins my day.
Note how quick Vince was to make the inference that my post claimed
that Mulroney was smiling at the baseballistics news.  This sure looks
like guilty knowledge to me...
>Realizing the taterific importance of this work, John Palmer and I
>concluded that we might be able to pool some resources.
^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^
I.e., the $300 grand.
>Who will be the stars this year? Can anyone hope to combat Brad
>Arnsberg's record start to last year?
The early money has to be on "Tom Tom" Bolton, who contributed that
clutch grandslam in his first appearance.  But I expect lots of
strong contenders this year, many of them right here in San Diego.
jking
From: msilverm@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mike Silverman)
Subject: Cubs behind Marlins? How?
Article-I.D.: mnemosyn.1993Apr6.194103.8810
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Lines: 74
I've noticed that is has become fashionable lately in rsb to predict
the Marlines to finish ahead of the Cubs....how?
First Base:
Grace vs Destrade...Could Destrade be the second coming of Cecil
Fielder? I doubt it. If Destrade performs to the height of expectations,
then even, otherwise, edge to Cubs
Second Base:
Sandberg vs Barberie...No contest. Sandberg will be back May 1. Edge
to Cubs...a big edge.
Shortstop:
Vizcaino vs Weiss...Vizcaino is excellent defensively, but is an
automatic out at bat. Weiss isn't much better with the stick. Even.
Third Base:
Dave Magadan vs Buechelle...Magadan has a higher OBP and is a better hitter.
Buechelle has more power and is better defensively (I think) Edge to
Florida.
Catcher:
Santiago vs Wilkins...Wilkins is OK, but Santiago is better. Edge to
Marlins
Left Field:
Conine vs Maldonado...Wow! 4 for 4 yesterday...I know Conine has potential.
I watched him play at Omaha the last couple years. Until he actually proves
himself, I give Maldonado the edge, however, like at 1B, this is position
where Florida might be even or better *if* the player there has a huge year.
Center:
Scott Pose vs Wilson/May...Edge to May, even if Wilson. Hopefully the
Cubs will use may and save Wilson for pinch running and the like. May
isn't Ken Griffey Jr, but he will hit .275 with 15 homers if he plays
full time.
Right:
Felix vs Sosa...Felix Jose has occasional power and a bad OBP. So does
Sosa, but Sosa also has speed and a good glove. Edge to Cubs
Starters:
Aquino? Armstrong? Hammond? A lot of fifth starters here. The Cubs won't
remind anyone of the Brave staff, but Morgan-Castillo-Guzman-Hibbard
is average to OK...better than the Marline. Edge to Cubs
Middle Relief:
Even. The Cubs have some decent middlemen, and so do the Marlins.
Carpenter anf Klink or decent, but so are Assenmacher and McElroy.
Closer:
A healthy Harvey is a big edge to the Marlins. Meyers is decent, but
no Harvey. Of course, the Cubs may have a few more games to save.
Look for 30 saves, 5 blown from Meyers, and 25 saves, 3 blown (with
a better ERA) for Harvey. Edge Florida.
Overall, an edge to Chicago.
Neither of these teams will threaten to win anything, of course.
e
--
msilverm@nyx.cs.du.edu				GO CUBS!!!
"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
From: brucek@Ingres.COM (Bruce Kleinman)
Subject: Re: When did Dodgers move from NY to LA?
Article-I.D.: pony.1993Apr6.195730.20277
Organization: Ingres Corporation, A subsidiary of The ASK Group, Inc.
Lines: 6
In article <1993Apr5.160030.2328@ncar.ucar.edu> tparker@music.scd.ucar.edu (Tom Parker) writes:
>I have a bet with my buddy on when the Dodgers moved from NY to LA.  Does
>anyone know what year they moved?
>
The Dodgers' first year in LA was 1958.
From: brucek@Ingres.COM (Bruce Kleinman)
Subject: Re: Best record ever in baseball
Article-I.D.: pony.1993Apr6.195932.20451
Distribution: usa
Organization: Ingres Corporation, A subsidiary of The ASK Group, Inc.
Lines: 5
In article <1psl0jINNam3@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> admiral@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Steve C Liu) writes:
>Of all teams, I believe the Cubs have the best record ever in baseball.
>Sometime way far back. 110+ and something.
I think it was the 1954 Cleveland Indians with 111.
From: luigi@sgi.com (Randy Palermo)
Subject: Re: My 1993 Predictions
Article-I.D.: odin.C52w7y.n09
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA
Lines: 33
Nntp-Posting-Host: bullpen.csd.sgi.com
In article <1993Apr6.143616.3588@infonode.ingr.com> kenney@tribe.b17d.ingr.com writes:
>I thought I'd post my predicted standings since I find those posted by others
>to be interesting.  Sorry this is after Opening Day.  I certify that these
>were completed before the first pitch. :-)
>
>
>NL West - The 2 best teams in baseball are in this division.
>1.  Atlanta Braves - Awesome starters, but offense could be a concern
>2.  Cincinnati Reds - Would not surprise me if they won it all
>3.  Houston Astros -Any team that signs Uribe won't contend. Closer to 4 than 2
>4.  San Diego Padres - Plantier could be the Sheffield of 1993
>5.  Los Angeles Dodgers - better pitching than the Giants
>6.  San Francisco Giants - because the Rockies just stink
>7.  Colorado Rockies - will become the Seattle Mariners of the NL.
>
>
>NLCS  Montreal d. Atlanta  (Braves fans, yes I'm probably contradicting
>                            what I said in my NL West comment.)
>ALCS  New York d. Minnesota
>
>World Series  New York d. Montreal - Hating the Yankees will be
>                                     fashionable again
>
>NL MVP:  Barry Bonds, or maybe McGriff
I guarantee that if Bonds wins the MVP the Giants will finish higher
than 6th.
luigi
--
Randy Palermo   luigi@csd.sgi.com    Fax: (415)961-6502
Silicon Graphics Computer Systems, 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd Mt. View, CA 94039
"Play an accordion, go to jail. That's the LAW"
From: fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush)
Subject: Reds Without Sleeves (was Re: New Uniforms)
Article-I.D.: news.12805
Organization: Biochemistry
Lines: 13
Nntp-Posting-Host: bruchner.biochem.duke.edu
Am I the only person who thinks the Reds sleeveless uniforms are
ugly?  Yet another reason why they won't win the NL West! ;)
-------------------------------------------------------
Eric Roush		fierkelab@	bchm.biochem.duke.edu
"I am a Marxist, of the Groucho sort"
Grafitti, Paris, 1968
TANSTAAFL! (although the Internet comes close.)
--------------------------------------------------------
From: spl2@po.cwru.edu (Sam Lubchansky)
Subject: Re: Joe Robbie Stadium "NOT FOR BASEBALL"
Article-I.D.: po.spl2.114.734131045
Organization: Case Western Reserve University
Lines: 27
NNTP-Posting-Host: b61644.student.cwru.edu
In article <1993Apr6.025027.4846@oswego.Oswego.EDU> iacs3650@Oswego.EDU (Kevin Mundstock) writes:
>From: iacs3650@Oswego.EDU (Kevin Mundstock)
>Subject: Joe Robbie Stadium "NOT FOR BASEBALL"
>Date: 6 Apr 93 02:50:27 GMT
>Did anyone notice the words "NOT FOR BASEBALL" printed on the picture
>of Joe Robbie Stadium in the Opening Day season preview section in USA
>Today? Any reason given for this?
>
I would assume that the words (I saw the picture) indicated that those
SEATS will not be available for baseball games.  If you look at the picture
of the diamond in the stadium, in relation to the areas marked "NOT FOR
BASEBALL", those seats just look terrible for watching baseball.   Now, if
they should happen to reach the post-season, I would imagine that they
would consider opening some of those seats up, but that is surely a worry
of the future.
Sam Lubchansky          spl2@po.cwru.edu
"In the champion, people see what they'd like to be.  In the loser,
they see what they actually are, and they treat him with scorn."
"Sugary condiments secure initial pleasure, but fermented grain is
decidedly more parsimonious of time."
From: luriem@alleg.edu The Liberalizer (Michael Lurie)
Subject: Re: Best Lifetime Record in Baseball History
Article-I.D.: alleg.1993Apr6.210157.2758
Organization: Allegheny College
Lines: 19
In article <1993Apr6.114106.156@corning.com> cecce_aj@corning.com writes:
> Speaking of the Marlins winning the opener:
>
> Based on lifetime percentage of games won, who has the second best
record
> in baseball history (soon to be the best record again)?
>
>
> If I had to guess I would be forced to say the Yankees.  On the other
hand
> the Blue Jays might be up there too.
>
> Hmmmmm....
>
> Tony
Blue Jays? No way hell, but the yankees probably do. Remember, the Yankees
had the best record of any team in the 80's, and probably take the 20's
through 60's as well.
From: luriem@alleg.edu The Liberalizer (Michael Lurie)
Subject: Re: YANKKES 1 GAME CLOSER
Article-I.D.: alleg.1993Apr6.210350.2865
Organization: Allegheny College
Lines: 29
In article <002251w.5.734117130@axe.acadiau.ca> 002251w@axe.acadiau.ca
(JASON WALTER WORKS) writes:
>     The N.Y.Yankees, are now one game closer to the A.L.East pennant.
They
> clobbered Cleveland, 9-1, on a fine pitching performance by Key, and two
> homeruns by Tartabull(first M.L.baseball to go out this season), and a
three
> run homer by Nokes.  For all of you who didn't pick Boggs in your pools,
> tough break, he had a couple hits, and drove in a couple runs(with many
more
> to follow).  The Yanks beat an up and coming team of youngsters in the
> Indians.  The Yankees only need to win 95 more games to get the
division.
>  GO YANKS., Mattingly for g.glove, and MVP, and Abbot for Cy Young.
>
>                                              ---> jason.
Jason, I am going to a yankee game wed night at cleveland stadium. I am so
happy.
But Cleveland is a very bad team who lost severalrs. They were an up and
coming team, now they are just a sad excuse for a better average.
ABBOT WILL NOT WIN THE CY.!!!!!! MELIDO PEREZ WILL. as bold a prediction
as they come., Well herOT be in last place by the end of the season. Mike
lurie Speaks, and the world listens.
From: luriem@alleg.edu The Liberalizer (Michael Lurie)
Subject: Yankee Meditations.
Article-I.D.: alleg.1993Apr6.205911.2654
Organization: Allegheny College
Lines: 14
Do you realize that the yankees are paying Matt Nokes 2,500,000 dollars
this year!!!! GEESH. And Maas only gets 125,000.
By the way, the yankees are going to WIN IT ALL
Yankees are the BEST.
By the way, JT Snow, an ex-yankee, will be rookie of the year.
From: luriem@alleg.edu The Liberalizer (Michael Lurie)
Subject: Re: Joe Robbie Stadium "NOT FOR BASEBALL"
Article-I.D.: alleg.1993Apr6.210510.2943
Organization: Allegheny College
Lines: 10
In article <1993Apr6.025027.4846@oswego.Oswego.EDU> iacs3650@Oswego.EDU
(Kevin Mundstock) writes:
> Did anyone notice the words "NOT FOR BASEBALL" printed on the picture
> of Joe Robbie Stadium in the Opening Day season preview section in USA
> Today? Any reason given for this?
Yes, and the answer is simple. To create a better feeling in the park, the
seats will be folded back for baseball games where you saw those words.
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Subject: mile high runs
Article-I.D.: master.1psq90INNh93
Reply-To: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Lines: 35
NNTP-Posting-Host: g215a-1.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
How many runs will be scored in Denver?
I don't know.
but some idea can be gotten by looking at the runs scored in
Mile High Stadium during the last few years of the Bears/Zephyrs
tenure in the American Association.
Here's the total runs scored per game in Zephyrs games,
all league games and the ratio. I found the same ratios for HR.
Year  rpg   lea  ratio  hrpg lea ratio
1992 10.22  9.10 1.12   1.65 1.58 1.04
1991  9.53  8.87 1.07   1.41 1.26 1.12
1990 10.71  8.72 1.23   1.49 1.24 1.20
1989  9.07  8.34 1.09   1.27 1.11 1.14
1988  9.90  8.37 1.18   1.29 1.08 1.19
1987 12.55 10.70 1.17   2.39 1.92 1.24
1986  9.45  9.33 1.01   1.35 1.38  .98
1985  9.50  8.54 1.11   1.53 1.34 1.14
1984  9.99  9.10 1.10   1.55 1.59  .97
1983 10.60  9.99 1.06   2.03 1.74 1.17
1982 11.29 10.35 1.09   2.24 1.91 1.17
1981 10.29  9.25 1.11   1.43 1.49  .96
1980 10.59  9.43 1.12   1.63 1.46 1.12
1446/13-->1.11     1444/13-->1.11
It seems pretty clear that Denver will have a large effect
on runs scored (I'll stick with my prediction from last year
that it'll be one of the top 3 in the NL this year)
and a fairly large effect on Homeruns - though apparently not as large as
Atlanta, Wrigley, Cincinnati and San Diego.
Still it ought to be a pretty decent home run park.
john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Subject: Re: My '93 picks (with only one comment)
Article-I.D.: master.1psqpdINNh9v
Reply-To: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Lines: 47
NNTP-Posting-Host: g215a-1.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
In article <12786@news.duke.edu> fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush)
writes:
> In article <1psbg8INNgjj@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>
> rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert) writes:
> >In article <jfr2.733938351@Ra.MsState.Edu> jfr2@Ra.MsState.Edu (Jackie F.
> >Russell) writes:
> >> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:
> >> >National League West
> >> >	Cincinnati      ----
> >> >	Houston          5.0
> >> >	Atlanta          8.0
> >> ARGH! Here is where you are obviously dead wrong. Not since the Yankees
> >> of the 20's and 30's has a team been so nicely setup as this years(and
> >> years to come) Braves. I don't think that the All-Star team will be able
> >This may be an appropriate comparison.
> >The 1929-31 Yankees finshed 2nd, 3rd and 2nd finshing
> >18, 16 and 13-1/2 games out of first.
> >In 1933,'34 and '35 they also finished second ( though they were only
> >7, 7 and 3 games out).
> >Even great teams can lose - That's why they play the season.
> >(on the other hand... I'm still picking the Braves to go all the way)
> Um, surely you didn't intend to compare the '93 Reds with the
> 29 Philidelphia A's.  The Yankees were finishing 2nd to
> a team that was as good as the 26-28 Yankees, while the
> Yankees had aged some from their peak years.  Ruth and Gehrig
> couldn't play every position simultaneously.
>
> IMO, given the various ages of the Braves and Reds this season,
> that the Braves will be closer to their peak, while the Reds
> have slightly passed their peak.
>
> Also, if you're going to compare Braves and Yankees, a more appropriate
> comparison to the '93 Braves might be the '23 Yankees.
> After falling short two years in a row in exciting World Series,
>  both teams won/will win the Series this year, despite the
> heroics of some old fart on the other team.
> (Casey Stengel/ Dave Winfield???)
Perhaps so. I was only responding to the "Yankees of the 20's and 30's"
part of the comment. If those teams were a 'sure thing' and lost,
then it's probably not so unreasonable for someone to pick another
team (not that I did).
john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Go Brewers!
From: thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: MARLINS WIN! MARLINS WIN!
Article-I.D.: midway.1993Apr6.214406.29128
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Lines: 18
In article <lloyd-060493114752@128.32.250.77> lloyd@uclink.berkeley.edu (Lloyd Nebres) writes:
>>>(Look at all that Teal!!!!  BLEAH!!!!!!!!!)
>
>Indeed, if the color teal on a team's uniforms is any indication of the
>future, the Marlins are in dire trouble! Refer to the San Jose Sharks for
>proof... But I have hope for the Marlins. I was a sometime member of the
>Rene Lachemann fan club at the Oakland Coliseum, and have a deep respect
>for the guy. He's a gem. And, of course, Walt Weiss gives that franchise
>class. But yeah... whoever designed those uniforms was guilty of a paucity
>of style and imagination. Ugghhh!
Maybe I'm just a child of the 80's, but I really liked the Marlins' uniforms.
The helmets shine nicely in the sun.  It's enough to make me a fan.
--
ted frank                 | "However Teel should have mentioned that though
thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu |  his advice is legally sound, if you follow it
the u of c law school     |  you will probably wind up in jail."
standard disclaimers      |                    -- James Donald, in misc.legal
Subject: Mark Whiten
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Lines: 13
I was on vacation all last week and didn't see any news at all. Could
somebody fill me in on how St. Louis ended up with Mark Whiten in a
trade? Who did we give up Arocha, Allen Watson, Dmitri Young, or did
Dal make a decent deal?
:
Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"I don't know anything about X's, but I know about some O."
George Gervin on being an assistant coach
********************************************************************************
From: dougb@comm.mot.com (Doug Bank)
Subject: Re: Info needed for Cleveland tickets
Reply-To: dougb@ecs.comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Land Mobile Products Sector
Distribution: usa
Nntp-Posting-Host: 145.1.146.35
Lines: 17
In article <1993Apr1.234031.4950@leland.Stanford.EDU>, bohnert@leland.Stanford.EDU (matthew bohnert) writes:
|> I'm going to be in Cleveland Thursday, April 15 to Sunday, April 18.
|> Does anybody know if the Tribe will be in town on those dates, and
|> if so, who're they playing and if tickets are available?
The tribe will be in town from April 16 to the 19th.
There are ALWAYS tickets available! (Though they are playing Toronto,
and many Toronto fans make the trip to Cleveland as it is easier to
get tickets in Cleveland than in Toronto.  Either way, I seriously
doubt they will sell out until the end of the season.)
--
Doug Bank                       Private Systems Division
dougb@ecs.comm.mot.com          Motorola Communications Sector
dougb@nwu.edu                   Schaumburg, Illinois
dougb@casbah.acns.nwu.edu       708-576-8207
From: ccox@math.nwu.edu (Christopher L. Cox)
Subject: Re: Yogi-isms
Article-I.D.: news.1993Apr6.213008.1009
Organization: Dept of Math, Northwestern Univ
Lines: 13
Nntp-Posting-Host: poincare.math.nwu.edu
>
> Here's one I remember: (sort of)
> Yogi's asleep in a hotel room late at night and gets a call from someone.
> After he answers the phone the person at the other end asks if he woke Yogi
> up. Yogi answered, "No, the phone did."
>
> Kevin
One of my favorites came back in the seventies when two
streakers interupted a game Yogi was at, dashing across the
field unclad.  Later someone who wasn't present asked Yogi
if they were men or women.  He replied, "I couldn't tell,
they had bags over their heads."
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate)
Subject: Re: Young Catchers
Article-I.D.: blue.8007
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering
Lines: 81
mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) said:
>In article <7975@blue.cis.pitt.edu> genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes:
>>mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) said:
>>>
>>>We know that very, very few players at this age make much of an impact
>>>in the bigs, especially when they haven't even played AAA ball.
>>
>>Yes.  But this is *irrelevant*.  You're talking about averages, when we
>>have lots of information about THIS PLAYER IN PARTICULAR to base our
>>decisions on.
>
>Do you really have *that* much information on him?  Really?
I don't personally, but Clay just posted it.  Yes, we do.
Unfortunately, it shows that Lopez wasn't as good an example as Nieves would
have been, since his last year numbers were out of line with the previous
years (which I didn't have access to).
The point remains, though; knowing a guy's minor league history is as good
as knowing his major league history, if you know how to read it.
>>Why isn't Lopez likely to hit that well?  He hit that well last year (after
>>adjusting his stats for park and league and such); he hit better (on an
>>absolute scale) than Olson or Berryhill did.  By a lot.
>
>I don't know.  You tell me.  What percentage of players reach or
>exceed their MLE's *in their rookie season*?  We're talking about
>1993, you know.
The MLE is not a *projection*, it's an *equivalence*.  It's a "this is how
well he hit *last* year, in major league terms" rating.  So, in essence, he
has *already* reached it.  I would guess (Bob?  Clay?) that essentially half
of all players surpass their previous MLEs in their rookie seasons.  Maybe
more than half, since all of these players are young and improving.
>If that were your purpose, maybe.  Offerman spent 1992 getting
>acclimated, if you will.  The Dodgers as a team paid a big price
>that season.
Did they?  Offerman may have been the difference between 4th or 5th place
and last place, but no more.
>Perhaps they will reap the benefits down the road.
>Do you really think they would have done what they did if they
>were competing for a pennant?
Sure; they didn't have anyone better.  I suppose they might have gutted the
farm system to acquire Jay Bell or Spike Owen or somebody if they were really
in contention.
>>The point was not that 17 AB is a significant sample, but rather that he
>>hadn't done anything in spring training to cause even a blockhead manager
>>to question whether his minor league numbers were for real, or to send him
>>down "until he gets warmed up".
>
>For a stat-head, I'm amazed that you put any credence in spring
>training.
If you'd read what I wrote, you'd be less amazed.  Nowhere do I claim to put
any credence in spring training.  Quite the contrary; I said that Lopez hadn't
done anything that even the bozos who *do* put credence in spring training
could interpret as "failure".  Just because I think spring training numbers
are meaningless doesn't mean that Bobby Cox does; it's just a case of ruling
out one possible explanation for sending Lopez down.
>>>The kid *will* improve playing at AAA,
>>
>>Just like Keith Mitchell did?
>
>Wait a minute.  I missed something here.
Keith Mitchell did very very well at AA, AAA, and the majors over a season,
then did very, very poorly for a year in AAA.
--
David M. Tate   |  (i do not know what it is about you that closes
posing as:      |  and opens; only something in me understands
e e (can       |  the pocket of your glove is deeper than Pete Rose's)
dy) cummings |  nobody, not even Tim Raines, has such soft hands
From: G.R.Price@cm.cf.ac.uk (and thats a fact)
Subject: Sax
Organization: University of Wales College of Cardiff, Cardiff, WALES, UK.
Lines: 5
Any more news on Steve's status since he lost the starting job
would be appreciated
Thanks
gwyn
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Subject: Re: Young Catchers
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 70
Most of this discussion has been between Mark Singer and David Tate,
with Valentine weighing in on the same side as Dave at various times.
My opinion, FWIW, to all:
Mark, age doesn't matter; ability does. I would rather have the untried
rookie with great minor league numbers than the veteran who has proven
himself to be average at best. I don't care if he is 15; if he plays
better than what I have, I want him out there. Sandy Alomar had decent
minor league numbers, grossly inflated by the PCL in general and Las
Vegas in particular; he should have been projected as an average major
league hitter (which is good for a catcher, I'll admit). Santiago's
numbers would probably come out the same as Sandy's, but I don't have
the league data from the mid-80s to check it out.
That being said, I agree with sending Lopez to Richmond, at least to
start the season. As the box below shows, he has *one* minor league
season in which he hit well. He has two in which he hit very, very
poorly. I want to see that the 92 Lopez is real. Olson and Berryhill
are not complete mediocrities; for catchers, especially NL catchers,
they are essentially average hitters, with equivalent averages around
.220. If he had hit well at prior levels, I would say he belongs on
the Braves; but there is a reasonable chance that Lopez last year was
just as much a fluke as Alomar in 90 or Santiago in 87. One year at
any level, at any age, doesn't satisfy MY standards of evidence.
JAVIER LOPEZ 1971
1990 BUR    428  101  10   1   9    5    0   1  .179   33  .236  .245  .327
1991 DUR    389   84   8   1   9   14    7   2  .175   29  .216  .243  .311
1992 GRN    445  135  22   2  14   22    7   2  .271   71  .303  .336  .456
1992 ATL     16    6   2   0   0    0    0   0  .306    3  .375  .375  .500
MAJ        16    6   2   0   0    0    0   0  .306    3  .375  .375  .500
MIN      1262  320  40   4  32   41   14   5  .213  133  .254  .277  .368
TOT      1278  326  42   4  32   41   14   5  .214  136  .255  .278  .369
MAJ       650  244  81   0   0    0    0   0
MIN       630  160  20   2  16   20    7   2
TOT       630  161  21   2  16   20    7   2
On a similar note, I don't understand why more people are not
supportive of Neon Deion. Granted, I thought his behavior with
McCarver last year was completely bush. Last year was the first time
he ever got 300 AB in one place, so his lines are hard to read. But he
has a combined 720 OPS in minor league play; with his speed is more
valuable than the OPS alone indicates; and at a still young age (24),
had a monster year with an 868 OPS. He has a total, major and minor,
EQA of .249; above major league average, and above average for CF
(which was about .240 in the NL last year). He has shown at least the
potential of going into the .290s, which would make him one of the 15
best hitters in the league. He has two full seasons before reaching
his "prime" season of 27. He should be considered as a legitimate
prospect, and not as a simple side-show attraction.
DEION SANDERS 1968
1988 FLA     21    8   2   0   0    1    1   0  .325    4  .381  .409  .476
1988 INT     20    3   1   0   0    1    1   1  .086    0  .150  .190  .200
1989 EAS    123   35   1   2   2    9   15   4  .257   19  .285  .333  .374
1989 NYY     47   11   1   0   2    3    1   0  .222    6  .234  .280  .383
1989 INT    263   70  11   4   6   18   15   6  .246   37  .266  .313  .407
1990 NYY    133   21   2   2   3   13    8   2  .161    9  .158  .233  .271
1990 INT     85   26   7   1   1   14    8   1  .312   18  .306  .404  .447
1991 ATL    110   20   2   1   4   12   10   3  .201   12  .182  .262  .327
1991 RIC    129   30   5   2   4    7   11   3  .230   17  .233  .272  .395
1992 ATL    306   92  10  12  11   22   24   9  .295   60  .301  .348  .520
MAJ       596  144  15  15  20   50   43  14  .245   87  .242  .300  .418
MIN       641  172  27   9  13   50   51  15  .252   96  .268  .321  .399
TOT      1237  316  42  24  33  100   94  29  .249  182  .255  .311  .408
MAJ       600  145  15  15  20   50   43  14
MIN       603  162  25   8  12   47   48  14
TOT       601  154  20  12  16   49   46  14
Clay D.
From: mcmath@csb1.nlm.nih.gov (Chuck Chuck Bo-Buck... McMath)
Subject: Re: Giants' GM Quinn *is* a genius!
Organization: Ross Perot Ear Admiration Society
Lines: 37
In article <80416@apple.apple.COM>, chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach)
wrote:
>
> mcmath@csb1.nlm.nih.gov (Chuck Chuck Bo-Buck... McMath) writes:
>
>
>
> >"When the Giants protected Mike Benjamin (career average .160) ovre pitcher
> >Pat Rapp, there were surprised looks in the Bay Area
>
> >Benjamin's stats: .333/.364/.571, 42 ab, 14 H, 4 doubles, 2 dingers.
>
> >And Rapp's even been sent down to AAA.  So it's even *better* than that,
> >eh?
>
> Of course, the protected list was done by the OLD regime, not the new, so
> this is Rosen's baby, not Quinn's.
>
> And I'll tell you what. Let's look at this again at the end of the season,
> and, say in three years, and see who the genius is. One of the more
> braindead decisions by the OldGiants, IMHO. Even if Benjamin DOES improve
> markedly over the past (and his hitting is better) he's never going to be
> more than a utility/backup IF. Rapp might turn into a top-flight arm in
> another year.
I think the next time I post something like this, I obviously need to make
the sarcasm a bit more obvious...
chuck
|- chuck mcmath - mcmath@csb1.nlm.nih.gov - MSD, Inc. ---------------|
|- National Library of Medicine - National Institutes of Health -----|
|- Bethesda, MD 20894 ----------- No noose is good noose ------------|
|- "Hey batter, hey batter, hey batter, swing" - Anon. --------------|
|------------ This opinion influenced by cosmic radiation -----------|
From: gotribe@cbnewse.cb.att.com (richard.g.barry)
Subject: Re: Reds Without Sleeves (was Re: New Uniforms)
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1993Apr6.220115.16282
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 21
In article <1993Apr6.204514.2180@adobe.com>, snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
> In article <12805@news.duke.edu> fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush) writes:
> >
> >
> >Am I the only person who thinks the Reds sleeveless uniforms are
> >ugly?  Yet another reason why they won't win the NL West! ;)
>
> If uniforms really were a deciding factor in pennant races, the '79 Pirates
> would have never won anything; those have to be the ugliest uniforms I've
> ever seen, particular the all-yellow set.
>
> Sherri Nichols
> snichols@adobe.com
>
My vote goes for the ('75?) Indians with their all-red uniforms.
Boog Powell once said he felt like a big red blood clot.
Rich Barry
barry@ihlpe.att.com
From: iacs3650@Oswego.EDU (Kevin Mundstock)
Subject: Re: Yogi-isms
Reply-To: iacs3650@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Kevin Mundstock)
Organization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY
Lines: 14
In article <1993Apr2.153725.17543@bsu-ucs> 00mbstultz@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>
>Here's an interesting quote from Bill Veek from _Get that Nigger off
>the Field_:
>        "Josh (Gibson) was, at minimum, two Yogi Berras."
>Speaking of Yogi, anybody know any good Yogi-isms?
>Mike "Curious George" Stultz
Here's one I remember: (sort of)
Yogi's asleep in a hotel room late at night and gets a call from someone.
After he answers the phone the person at the other end asks if he woke Yogi
up. Yogi answered, "No, the phone did."
Kevin
From: iacs3650@Oswego.EDU (Kevin Mundstock)
Subject: My Predictions For 1993
Reply-To: iacs3650@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Kevin Mundstock)
Organization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY
Lines: 62
Since everyone else seems to be running wild with predictions, I've
decided to add my own fuel to the fire:
They might seem a bit normal, but there are a few (albeit, small) surprises.
American League East	 W	 L	GB
1)New York Yankees	93	69	--
2)Baltimore Orioles	90	72	 3
3)Toronto Blue Jays	86	76	 7
4)Cleveland Indians     84      78       9
5)Boston Red Sox	77	85	16
6)Milwaukee Brewers	74	88	19
7)Detroit Tigers	73	89	20
American League West	 W	 L	GB
1)Minnesota Twins	94	68	--
2)Kansas City Royals	92	70	 2
3)Texas Rangers     	85	77	 9
4)Chicago White Sox	77	85	17
5)Oakland Athletics	74	88	20
6)Seattle Mariners	70	92	24
7)California Angels	65	97	29
AL MVP-Kirby Puckett
AL Cy Young-Kevin Appier
AL Rookie of the Year-Tim Salmon
AL Manager of the Year-Buck Showalter
AL Comeback Player of the Year-Ozzie Guillen
National League East	 W	 L	GB
1)St. Louis Cardinals	91	71	--
2)Philadelphia Phillies 89	73	 2
3)Montreal Expos	88	74	 3
4)New York Mets		84	78	 7
5)Chicago Cubs		79	83	12
6)Pittsburgh Pirates	73	89	18
7)Florida Marlins	54     108	37
National League West	 W	 L	GB
1)Atlanta Braves	96	66	--
2)Cincinnati Reds	94	68	 2
3)Houston Astros	89	73	 7
4)Los Angeles Dodgers	82	80	14
5)San Francisco Giants	81	81	15
6)San Diego Padres	75	87	21
7)Colorado Rockies	59     103	37
NL MVP-Barry Larkin
NL Cy Young-John Smoltz
NL Rookie of the Year-Wil Cordero
NL Manager of the Year-Joe Torre
NL Comeback Player of the Year-Eric Davis
NL Champions-St. Louis Cardinals
AL Champions-Minnesota Twins
World Champions-St. Louis Cardinals
The St. Louis picks are what my heart says.
What my brain says, is they will win the division, lose to the Braves
in the NLCS, and the Braves will win the Series against Minnesota.
But for now, I'll stick with the Cards all the way.
Kevin
From: iacs3650@Oswego.EDU (Kevin Mundstock)
Subject: Joe Robbie Stadium "NOT FOR BASEBALL"
Reply-To: iacs3650@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Kevin Mundstock)
Organization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY
Lines: 16
Did anyone notice the words "NOT FOR BASEBALL" printed on the picture
of Joe Robbie Stadium in the Opening Day season preview section in USA
Today? Any reason given for this?
Also, I just noticed something looking at the Nolan Ryan timeline in
the preview. On 8/22/89, Rickey Henderson became Nolan's 5000th strikeout.
On 6/11/90 he pitched his 6th no-hitter against Oakland. I believe the
last out in the game was made by Rickey Henderson. And on 5/1/91, Nolan
pitched his 7th no-hitter on the same day a certain someone stole his
939th base, which overshadowed it. It seems that Nolan is having a lot of
publicity at Rickey's expense. IMO, Rickey deserves it, and it seems as
most of the net agrees with me from what I've seen on it lately. They are
both great players, but IMO, Nolan has outclassed Rickey, both in playing
and more importantly, in attitude. Just my thoughts.
Kevin
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Young Catchers
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Lines: 38
In article <7975@blue.cis.pitt.edu> genetic+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes:
>As for rushing...  If there really is a qualitative difference between the
>minors and the majors that requires a period of adjustment (and I don't
>believe there is), then wouldn't you rather waste Lopez's 22-year old good
>season than his 23-year old very good season or his 24-year-old excellent
>season?  The sooner you get him acclimated, the more of his prime you get to
>use.
Can anybody name a player who was 'rushed' to the majors (let's, for
argument's sake, define "rushed" as brought up to the majors for more than
a cup of coffee prior at age 22 or younger, and performing below
expectations), whose career was damaged by this rushing?  I'm serious; I
tend to agree with David that bringing the player up sooner is better, but
I'd like to look at players for whom this theory didn't work, if there are
any.  I'd prefer players within the last 10 years or so, because then I can
look up their minor league stats.  (It's important to distinguish between
players who legitimately had careers below what their minor league numbers
would have projected, as opposed to players who were hyped and failed, but
actually had careers not out of line with their minor league numbers).
Let's kick it off with an example of a player who was "rushed", although
there doesn't seem to have been any damage to his career.  Jay Bell was
given 135 PAs in the major leagues at age 21, and performed well below what
you would expect from his AAA numbers the same season.  He got 236 PAs the
next year at age 22, and still underperformed.  However, the next year, at
age 24, his performance improved, and he won the everyday shortstop job,
and has been there ever since.  It's really hard for me to see where he
would have been better off staying in the minor league (where he was
performed quite well in AAA) during this time, rather than being "rushed";
Cleveland might have been better off, I suppose, because they might have
been less likely to give up on him.
Yes, if you bring a player up early, he's likely going to struggle.  But
does that delay the time at which he stops struggling, and starts
performing up to expectations?
Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: rudy@netcom.com (Rudy Wade)
Subject: Re: Cubs game of April 6th
Article-I.D.: netcom.rudyC53145.IGD
Organization: Home of the Brave
Lines: 7
In article <1993Apr6.203330.4974@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu> jclark@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (J. Michael Clark) writes:
>Otis Nixion lined a single to left with two outs breaking up the no hitter.
>Cubs win 1-0 on a 1 hitter by Jose Guzman.
That's might be what it takes to beat the Braves this year.
Look at Smoltz's pitching line: 6 hits, 2 walks, 1 ER, 7 SO and a loss.
From: bone@wilbur.Stanford.EDU (Doug Bone)
Subject: Players Rushed to Majors
Article-I.D.: wilbur.24
Lines: 34
snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>Can anybody name a player who was 'rushed' to the majors (let's, for
>argument's sake, define "rushed" as brought up to the majors for more than
>a cup of coffee prior at age 22 or younger, and performing below
>expectations), whose career was damaged by this rushing?
I tend to agree that players are not hurt by early play in the big leagues.
The BRaves organization is a fertile ground to test this hypothesis, as they
had little talent on their roster for some time.  Steve Avery, for example,
was rushed to the majors, and he fared very poorly during his initial campaign.
His subsequent pitching has not been affected by his 5+ ERA during his rookie
year.  Bill James pointed out that it was relatively unusual to struggle so
and then rebound.
Bob Horner was also rushed to the majors (out of Arizona State directly) had
good numbers immediately.
I am not certain of the ages of people like Pete Smith, Craig McMurty, and
Derek Lilliquist.  The Braves pitching staffs were so bad when they came up
that they might have been rushed.  Lilliquist and Smith struggled, but it
didn't hurt PS and DL may have been overhyped.  I seem to recall CM pitching
well initially, though I don't have stats handy.
Douglas Bone		Internet: bone@luciano.stanford.edu
Standard disclaimers	BITNET:   bone%luciano.stanford.edu@stanford
apply.			UUCP:   ..ucbvax!luciano!sierra.stanford.edu!bone
From: js1@Isis.MsState.Edu (Jiann-ming Su)
Subject: Re: Rickey Henderson
Nntp-Posting-Host: isis.msstate.edu
Organization: Mississippi State University
Distribution: usa
Lines: 21
In article <ls1d6vINNs65@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM (Todd Rader) writes:
>Stay in school.  You have a lot to learn.
Learn what?  I know that 3 million dollars is A LOT of money.  I know
Rickey Henderson doesn't have a career out of baseball.  I know if he
didn't have baseball, he wouldn't be making near the money he is now.
I just don't understand how some athlete, who only plays a sport for a
living for millions of dollars, say he is not being paid enough.
If nobody will sign him for his asking price, he will be the one hurting.
The A's will still win without him.
Remeber, many of these athletes have NOTHING if not for their athletic
ability.  NOTHING.  They are getting paid MUCH more than most hard working
citizens, and they are complaining of not enough pay.
I don't have a problem with them making millions.  My problem is when the
say they aren't being paid enough, when they already get 3 million--also,
their numbers get worse.
From: zappala@pollux.usc.edu (Daniel Zappala)
Subject: Angels win!
Article-I.D.: pollux.1psvouINNa2l
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 6
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu
The Angels won their home opener against the Brewers today before 33,000+
at Anaheim Stadium, 3-1 on a 3-hitter by Mark Langston.  J.T. Snow and
Gary Discarcina hit home runs for the Angels.
Daniel
From: mebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (MsciDave)
Subject: Re: Young Catchers
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4
Reply-To: mebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Organization: LSU news
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-681]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Lines: 47
>mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) said:
>
>>Most catchers need to be solid defensively players to help their
>>clubs in the bigs.  Those are the arguments against Lopez for the
>>Braves for this year.
>>Now.  The Braves have two catchers who have demonstrated solid
>>abilities to call games, to work with the pitchers, to throw out
>>runners.
This is the crux of the argument (to me at least).  Both the
SDCN and the non-SDCN camps seem to agree on the fact that a catcher's
defense is basically nonmeasurable at present.  You can talk about how
important calling a game is, or framing the pitches, or blocking balls
in the dirt.  But there is little or no way to tell exactly how various
catcher's rank in "defense".
Looking at Lopez specifically; is there any reason to suspect
that he is a bad defensive catcher other then the fact that the Braves
(or the media) has labeled him a bad defensive catcher?  As far as I
can tell he doesn't have any particular problem in his mechanics
(such as Sasser).  He might be a little rough around the edges in blocking
the ball, or framing the pitch to get a good call but all he needs to
clear that up is playing and practice time.  I can't see how repetitions
at AAA are any better then reps in the majors!
All we're left with is the calling the game aspect.  Olsen  and
Berryhill at always given credit for calling good games and helping
the pitchering staff.  But this is a reputation that is given to almost
all veteran catchers.  How is catching at AAA going to help Lopez learn
the major league pitching staff?  The only way any catcher is going to
learn Tom Glavine's pitches is to catch Tom Glavine.  Similarly, I wouldn't
be supprised if the pitcher's claimed to prefer pitching to Olsen over
pitching to Lopez because they are used to pitching to Olsen.  But
given time they will say they are comfortable with Lopez.
Now, since Lopez can't learn how to handle the major league
pitcher's while he's in AAA and since he doesn't have any glaring
problem in his mechanics, what is he going to learn in AAA that he
can't learn just as well while in the majors?
Dave
__________
Dave Bonar
mebonar@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu
__________
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Subject: Re: My '93 picks (with only one comment)
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Lines: 53
Distribution: na
Reply-To: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
NNTP-Posting-Host: g215a-1.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
In article <jfr2.733938351@Ra.MsState.Edu> jfr2@Ra.MsState.Edu (Jackie F.
Russell) writes:
> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:
> >Since I did so well last year, here's another shot at picking the winners
> >and losers.  I'll skip the commentary on why I picked who to finish where
> >due to lack of time for flame wars 8^)
>
>
> >	Kansas City	25.0
>
> I think KC has a much better shot at being in the top division than
> the bottom. One word(Cone) should help things tremendously. I think
> you are way off the mark here.
Another word (offense) makes them my pick for last too.
(Well, there's also my policy of never picking a Buck Rodgers' team for last)
> >	Florida		12.0
> >	Chicago		20.0
>
> I dont know if an expansion team has ever finished "not last" but I think
> this year might be a first if it hasnt ever happened. The Cubs are worse
The 1961 Angels were  1/2 game out of 7th. The Athletics and
expansion Senators finished tied for last.
The 1962 Colt 45's finshed 8th - ahead of the Cubs (the Mets were last).
The 1969 Royals finshed 4th - ahead of the White Sox (the Pilots in last).
The 1977 Mariners finished 6th - ahead of the Athletics(in last).
Apparently being an expansion team with a poor A's or Chicago
team around is a `good thing'
> >National League West
>
> >	Cincinnati      ----
> >	Houston          5.0
> >	Atlanta          8.0
> ARGH! Here is where you are obviously dead wrong. Not since the Yankees of
> the 20's and 30's has a team been so nicely setup as this years(and years
> to come) Braves. I don't think that the All-Star team will be able to beat
This may be an appropriate comparison.
The 1929-31 Yankees finshed 2nd, 3rd and 2nd finshing
18, 16 and 13-1/2 games out of first.
In 1933,'34 and '35 they also finished second ( though they were only
7, 7 and 3 games out).
Even great teams can lose - That's why they play the season.
(on the other hand... I'm still picking the Braves to go all the way)
john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman
Predictions for '93: Marlins: 70 wins, Rockies: 50 wins
and....Rockies fans will claim that the offense is adequate.
From: rickc@krill.corp.sgi.com (Richard Casares)
Subject: Re: Jim Lefebvre is an idiot.
Nntp-Posting-Host: krill.corp.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 16
In article <1993Apr5.190141.17623@bsu-ucs>, 00bjgood@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
writes:
|> I just wanted to let everyone know that I have lost what little respect
|> I have
|> for Jim LeFebvre after seeing today's Cubs game.
|> 						A dishard Cub fan
If you think that's bad, just wait until he tries Dunston in
the leadoff spot again.
Yes, I also wonder if they can win with this manager.
I never believed managers had that much to do with winning
until I saw how much they had to do with losing....
- Rick
From: rickc@krill.corp.sgi.com (Richard Casares)
Subject: Re: Jim Lefebvre is an idiot.
Nntp-Posting-Host: krill.corp.sgi.com
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 32
In article <C51uC6.BL1@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, ada41546@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
(Driftwood) writes:
|>
|> 	I totally agree with each point you made.  Jose Viscaino looked
|> like a single A hitter up there.  Who swings on 3-1 count with Maddux
|> pitching and your teams down by a run, and you haven't touched the ball
|> all
|> day.  I also think too much is made of that lefty-righty thing.
|> Watching
|> the Cubs games I get the feeling Steve Stone knows a lot more about
|> what
|> the Cubs should be doing than Lefebre does.  Harry said it best when he
|> stated after another terrible Vizcaino at bat-- we can't wait til
|> Sandberg returns!
I tell you, Steve Stone is like a prophet.
He must be making a ton in the boradcoast booth because
I can't understand why he's not actually back in the game itself.
The other day he called Sosa's homerun against the Sox and
claimed the game would be going into extra innings when the
score was 8-3 in the 5th.
So yesterday he notices that Sosa's ahead in the count against
Maddux and says, "This is a fastball situation and Sosa will be
looking for it.  But this is also the spot where Maddux throws
the straight change."   Sure enough. Sosa gets ahead on it and pops
it up to the infield.
Stoney for Cubs manager!
-Rick
Subject: Re: Young Catchers
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA
Lines: 27
In article <mssC52qMx.768@netcom.com> mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) writes:
>Now, Keith Mitchell.  As I recall (no stat books handy - surprise!)
>he jumped from AA to Atlanta in 1991.  He did so well that he was
>returned to the minors, where he didn't do very well at all.  Now
>his career is in jeopardy.  So how does he fit in with your
>point.  Good MLE's in AA.  Moved him right to the big club.  Now
>he's one step away from being traded or moved out of baseball.
>Duh.
Methinks you recall wrong. Mitchell hit close to .300 in Atlanta and
continued to walk alot after his promotion. He was then (I think) left
off the playoff roster, and started the next year in the minors where
even the Braves will tell you he underperformed because he was so mad
at going back down.
he struggled last year, no doubt, but even the Braves blamed part of it
on the demotion. I'd much rather have Mitchell than say Mark Whiten on
the Cards.
Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"I don't know anything about X's, but I know about some O."
George Gervin on being an assistant coach
********************************************************************************
Subject: Chris Webber chokes
From: krueger@argon.gas.uug.arizona.edu (theodore r krueger)
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson
Lines: 11
After the marvelous "time-out" call by Chris Webber (which resulted in
a technical foul, since his team had no time-outs left) perhaps Webber
will take the place of Bill Buckner as the master of choke.  At least
this Red Sox fan hopes so.
Ted
--
When Chelsea Clinton's Secret Service agent had to be replaced by an active
duty soldier she objected on the grounds that her family dislikes the military.
----- krueger@gas.uug.arizona.edu -----
From: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Subject: Re: DESIGNATED HITTER RULE
Reply-To: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies
Lines: 17
ekdfc@ttacs1.ttu.edu (David Coons):
> > The rules say baseball is a game between two teams of nine
> > players each.  Let's keep it that way.
niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent):
> Not any more the rules don't say that.  So that's a pretty dumb
> argument.
REALLY???  My little mind be boggled!  I don't have a 1993 Rule Book
yet, so David, would you please post the new wording of Rule 1.01 -- I
am MIGHTILY curious!  Much thanks.
Wayne Hathaway               domain: wayne@Ultra.COM
Ultra Network Technologies     uucp: ...!ames!ultra!wayne
101 Daggett Drive             phone: 408-922-0100 x132
San Jose, CA 95134              FAX: 408-433-9287
From: ring@poseidon (Sue Rankin)
Subject: Camden Yards
Organization: Athena Design, Inc.
Lines: 13
NNTP-Posting-Host: poseidon.athena.com
I am fortunate enough to have tickets for an Orioles-Red Sox game in
Baltimore on Saturday, July 31st.  I haven't been to the new park,
and I was wondering if anyone out there can give me pointers or good tips
or anything helpful about the place so that I can enjoy every moment spent
there.
For instance, what time do the gates open?  Do we see the Orioles take BP?
When will the Red Sox take BP?  Anything you can tell me would be
appreciated.  Thank you in advance.
Please respond to my e-mail address.
I know it's still three-and-a-half months away, but I'm psyched!
Sue
From: bohnert@leland.Stanford.EDU (matthew bohnert)
Subject: Re: Rickey Henderson
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Lines: 26
>
>And Michael Jackson, Jack Nicholson, and Bill Cosby wouldn't be
>making near as much money if they weren't entertainers. So what's
>your point?
Actually, I could care less what his salary is.  It has something to do
with the fact that we live in America, and everyone is entitled to
whatever he can legally obtain.  If Sandy Alderson and the Haas family
willingly negotiate a salary of $35 million per year with Rickey, I couldn't
care less.
But what REALLY GETS MY GOAT is the bullshit he spouted in spring training,
about `Well... sometimes I may not play as hard, or might be hurt more
often, in a place where I'm not appreciated'.  This quote was in the Chronicle
about the second week of camp, and strongly suggests that he was going to
dog it all year if the ownership didn't kiss his butt and ante up some
more money.  For God's sake, Rickey, you signed a contract 4 years ago,
now honor it and play!
Say all you want to about Steve Garvey, and believe
me, I hated him too, but at least when he put his signature on a piece
of paper he shut his mouth and played hard until the contract was up.
Matt Bohnert
From: kahn@troi.cc.rochester.edu (James Kahn)
Subject: Re: David Wells
Nntp-Posting-Host: troi.cc.rochester.edu
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)
Lines: 9
In article <1993Apr5.124526.10219@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> carrd@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes:
>Has David Wells landed with a team yet?  I'd think the Tigers with their
>anemic pitching would grab this guy pronto!
They did.  For $950K.
Jim
From: steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: "Seer" Stephenson picks the A.L. East
Summary: The division has gone to the birds
Keywords: last chance for foolishness
Article-I.D.: pegasus.steph.733989466
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Lines: 95
Having run completely out of time, I've got to get my prophesies and
predictions for the A.L. out.  Qualifications -- one of the worse
finishes in last year's prediction contest.
AL East -- 1993
1.  Baltimore Orioles
Why the Orioles?  Well, I pondered long and hard, and it all came down to
this:
-- The Blue Jays are going the wrong direction.
-- Can't bring myself to pick the Yankees
-- Milwaukee was a fluke
-- Indians aren't ready to contend
-- Red Sox were bad last year, and didn't get any better
-- Detroit's pitching will be the new definition of "replacement level"
"But you don't really think the Orioles will win, do you."  No.  As a matter
of fact, I can't see any team in the American League winning either division
on paper (with the possible exception of the Yankees, who I hate).  But some-
body has to win, so I pick the Orioles.  "You don't really think that Brady
Anderson is going to repeat, do you?"  No.  I'm basing the Orioles prediction
on the expectation of big years from Cal Ripken and Glenn Davis.  "Glenn
Davis?  That's insane".  Yes.  So, without further ado:
STRONG POINTS:  Hoiles, Ripken some years, Olson, getting rid of Billy Ripken.
WEAK POINTS:  Segui may start.  Valenzuela (the original 30-something) may be
the fifth starter.  Oates puts his best hitters at the bottom of the lineup.
(Does anybody else think that might be a calculated maneuver to minimize
the effect of a slumping Ripken?  If you can't move Ripken out of the #3
spot, why not move the rest of the line up?)
WOULD BE A GOOD SIGN:  Glenn Davis wins comeback player of the year.
WOULD BE A BAD SIGN:  In a tight pennant race, team trades for Pecota.
ObPrediction:  "The Streak" continues.  Harold Reynolds leads the team in
caught stealing.
2. New York Yankees.
STRONG POINTS:  Abbot, Key, Perez.  Could have best pitching in American
League.  Boggs should improve on Hayes.
WEAK POINTS:  Mattingly still considered best hitter.  The Steinbrenner
factor.  (The Yankees lost to the Mets.  Can wholesale changes be far
behind?)  Never count on rookie pitchers (i.e. Wickman & Millitello) to
win a division.
WOULD BE A GOOD SIGN:  Boggs hits over .300
WOULD BE A BAD SIGN:  Howe gets arrested again.
ObPrediction:  Mattingly won't top a 700 OPS.
3.  Toronto Blue Jays
STRONG POINTS:  Management willing to make big deals.  Management has eerie
power to convince other teams its prospects are not suspects.  Olerud.
Guzman.  Alomar.
WEAK POINTS:  The Jackson for Bell trade has shaken my faith in Gillick.
Losing Stewart may hurt rotation (that's *really* a bad sign).  No one in
the outfield can get on base.  Pitching is thin behind Guzman and Ward.
WOULD BE A GOOD SIGN:  Jack Morris considered Cy Young contender in August
WOULD BE A BAD SIGN:  Club makes no major deals in August.
ObPrediction:  Morris will post better ERA and WHIP totals than last year.  And
have a losing record.
4.  Milwaukee Brewers
STRONG POINTS:  Pitching staff was exceptional -- last year.
WEAK POINTS:  Molitor gone.  Surhoff at third?  Why?  Eldred can't keep it up.
WOULD BE A GOOD SIGN:  Listach and Eldred play like last year.
WOULD BE BAD SIGN:  Bones plays like last year.
ObPrediction:  Surhoff won't finish the year at third.
5.  Cleveland Indians
STRONG POINTS:  Baerga, Belle, Nagy
WEAK POINTS:  Pitching staff thin -- losing Olin really hurts.  Starts Felix
Fermin.
WOULD BE A GOOD SIGN:  Bielecki's ERA is consistent with his Atlanta starts.
WOULD BE A BAD SIGN:  Ted Power -- bullpen ace.
ObPrediction:  Alomar will be back on the DL by the all-star break.
6.  Boston Red Sox
STRONG POINTS:  Clemens, Viola, Clemens, Detroit, Clemens
WEAK POINTS:  Most incompetent GM in baseball.  Key free agent signing -- Andre
Dawson.  Burks is gone -- Hatcher in center.
WOULD BE A GOOD SIGN:  Rainouts in between Clemens starts.
WOULD BE A BAD SIGN:  Clemens on the DL
ObPrediction:  Russell will make Sox fans forget Reardon.  Interpret that how
you will :->
7.  Detroit Tigers
STRONG POINTS:  Tettleton, Phillips, Whitaker
WEAK POINTS:  If Fielder keeps declining, he'll be a shortstop this year.
Worst rotation in baseball entirely replaced -- but not necessarily better.
This year could be *very* ugly.
WOULD BE A GOOD SIGN:  Cecil Fielder deserving the MVP.
WOULD BE A BAD SIGN:  Cecil Fielder not whining about deserving an MVP.
ObPrediction:  Cecil *won't* lead the league in RBIs.
One more division to go....
--
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic
"It is considered good to look wise, especially when not
overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball
From: steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Rockies (not Rookies)
Article-I.D.: pegasus.steph.733996812
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Lines: 19
In <C500u7.Kr8@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dbl50872@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel Brian Lake) writes:
>You'd think that an expansion team would be filled with young'ns, not guys
>like Murphy, Galaragga, B Smith...
It depends.  If you can get your old veterans cheap, and if they can perform
at a higher level than your young talent can *now*, why not the talent
develop in the minors while giving the fans some familiar names to cheer.
If the veterans are gone in a year or two -- that should be just about right.
>Maybe someone should tell those renegade front office people in Denver. :)
Open question -- which was more important to the expansion clubs, the expansion
draft or the regular draft.  (They've had one of each, I think.)
--
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic
"It is considered good to look wise, especially when not
overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball
From: cubbie@garnet.berkeley.edu (                               )
Subject: Re: Cubs behind Marlins? How?
Article-I.D.: agate.1pt592$f9a
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Lines: 12
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu
gajarsky@pilot.njin.net writes:
morgan and guzman will have era's 1 run higher than last year, and
the cubs will be idiots and not pitch harkey as much as hibbard.
castillo won't be good (i think he's a stud pitcher)
This season so far, Morgan and Guzman helped to lead the Cubs
at top in ERA, even better than THE rotation at Atlanta.
Cubs ERA at 0.056 while Braves at 0.059. We know it is early
in the season, we Cubs fans have learned how to enjoy the
short triumph while it is still there.
From: steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Giants' GM Quinn *is* a genius!
Article-I.D.: pegasus.steph.734129736
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Lines: 17
In <18979@autodesk.COM> trs@Autodesk.COM (Tom Schroeder) writes:
>nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>> During the same time span, the Braves developed John Smoltz, Tom Glavine,
>> Steve Avery, David Justice, Ron Gant, and Jeff Blauser, among others.
>>
>  Avery, I believe, came from the Phillies.  Jeff Blauser?!?
Avery was the #2 overall pick by the Braves, behind Mark Lewis (I think) in
1988.  John Smoltz came over to the Braves from the Tigers, but was developed
by the Braves.  Jeff Blauser isn't a bad player.
--
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic
"It is considered good to look wise, especially when not
overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball
From: admiral@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Steve C Liu)
Subject: Best record ever in baseball
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
Lines: 19
Distribution: usa
Expires: 5/9/93
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
Summary: Can you believe it?
Of all teams, I believe the Cubs have the best record ever in baseball.
Sometime way far back. 110+ and something.
Admiral Steve C. Liu
____________________________________________________________________________
|Admiral Steve C. Liu          Internet Address: admiral@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu|
|Commander-In-Chief of the Security Division of the Pi Club - Earth Chapter|
|    President of the Earth Chapter of the Pi Club - Founded April 1990    |
|1993 World Champions  - Baltimore Orioles - Why Not? - Series in the Yards|
|         1992-1993 Stanley Cup Champions -  Washington Capitals           |
| "Committee for the Liberation and Intergration of Terrifying Organisms   |
|   and their Rehabilitation Into Society, the only problem is that the    |
|   abbreviation is CLITORIS." from the "Polymorph" episode of Red Dwarf   |
|*****The Bangles are the greatest female rock band that ever existed!*****|
|   This sig has been brought to you by... Frungy! The Sport of Kings!     |
|"My God man, drilling holes through his head is not the answer!" Dr. McCoy|
|"You know, Susanna Hoffs has a really nice ass." - comment by M. Flanagan |
|  The Pi Club - Creating the largest .signatures for the past nine months |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Re: Players Rushed to Majors
From: admiral@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Steve C Liu)
Expires: 5/9/93
Distribution: usa
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
Summary: Big Ben
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
Lines: 25
I don't know if you could call him rushed, but "Big" Ben McDonald didn't
much time at all in the minors. Of course that was because the balls used
in AAA had seams too large and gave McDonald blisters forcing him to go
on the DL several times. He's done most of his learning here in the majors.
Of course Gregg "Wild Thing" Olson and Mike "Deserved a Cy Young" Mussina
didn't spend much time in the minors either. I read somewhere that pitchers
are less likely to need that much time in the minors anyway so maybe that
has something to do with it.
Let's go O's! Why Not?
Admiral Steve "Still reliving Sept. 30, 1989" Liu
____________________________________________________________________________
|Admiral Steve C. Liu          Internet Address: admiral@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu|
|Commander-In-Chief of the Security Division of the Pi Club - Earth Chapter|
|    President of the Earth Chapter of the Pi Club - Founded April 1990    |
|1993 World Champions  - Baltimore Orioles - Why Not? - Series in the Yards|
|         1992-1993 Stanley Cup Champions -  Washington Capitals           |
| "Committee for the Liberation and Intergration of Terrifying Organisms   |
|   and their Rehabilitation Into Society, the only problem is that the    |
|   abbreviation is CLITORIS." from the "Polymorph" episode of Red Dwarf   |
|*****The Bangles are the greatest female rock band that ever existed!*****|
|   This sig has been brought to you by... Frungy! The Sport of Kings!     |
|"My God man, drilling holes through his head is not the answer!" Dr. McCoy|
|"You know, Susanna Hoffs has a really nice ass." - comment by M. Flanagan |
|  The Pi Club - Creating the largest .signatures for the past nine months |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Subject: Marlin fans
From: csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby)
Expires: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 04:00:00 GMT
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Keywords: MF
Summary: Marlin fans
Lines: 23
I was watching the Dodgers/Marlins game yesterday and a couple of
things impressed me.
First is that the way the sun was shining in Miami, it had a summer
atmosphere in early spring for baseball.  In comparison Wrigley Field
in early April still has a wintry look to it with the dead ivy and
bundled up fans.
The second and most important was the fans.  I like these guys/gals!
I will admit I am a football fan first but I still enjoy baseball.
It was interesting because most of these fans are only accustomed to
the Miami Dolphins.  The way they were cheering, I thought it was the
AFC playoffs.  Of course opening day may have A LOT to do with it,
but I really got feeling of electricity that I think is lacking with
a lot of baseball fans in other cities.
Baseball certainly needs a charge and I hope these two expansion
teams bring back some excitement.  We'll find out Friday how Denver
Bronco fans respond.
Phillies are 2-0! (I better say it now before my opportunity passes
by)
Subject: Re: Best Homeruns
From: csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby)
Expires: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 04:00:00 GMT
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Lines: 14
I personally will never forget Mike Schmidt's home run against the
Expos in 1980 that decided the NL East.  It was also his career high
48th.
Another home run that I thought was totally incredible was in the
1986 ALCS.  The CA Angles had the Boston Red Sox *1* strike away from
the pennant until Don Baylor hit a two strike pitch for a home run.
That was the most incredible turn of events I have EVER seen in
baseball.  The Sox later took the pennant away only to have the same
thing done to them in the WS against the Mets.  Speaking of the METS,
isn't it strange how the NLCS that year with the Astros ALMOST
mirrored the 1980 NLCS with the Phillies??  The Astros have been
painfully close twice I must admit.
Subject: Re: FLORIDA SUCKS!
From: csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby)
Expires: Sat, 1 May 1993 04:00:00 GMT
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Lines: 8
This talk about the Phillies winning the NL East is scary.  VERY
scary!  Don't get me wrong, Im a Phillies fan but as late as last
year they looked helpless.  The funny thing was they did have a lot
of injuries in '92 spring training that basically killed their
chances.  Of course, don't forget the Dykstra wrist injury in the
first or second game?
Subject: The 1964 Phillies: deja vu?
From: csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby)
Expires: Mon, 10 May 1993 04:00:00 GMT
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Keywords: Phillies
Summary: Phillies
Lines: 9
After reading my local paper today, I found out that the Phillies
started the 1964 season at 10-2.  I am not as old as 1964, but I've
heard many talk about the serious choke job the Phillies did that
season. They were ahead of the Cardinals by 15 games that season in
mid-August.  They managed to lose a bunch from then on and the
Cardinals took the division.  15!!! games ahead and lost it.... I
hope this season is MUCH different.
From: lyford@dagny.webo.dg.com (Lyford Beverage)
Subject: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series
Distribution: na
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC
Lines: 22
In article <1993Apr13.202037.9485@cs.cornell.edu>, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
|> In article <rudyC5Fr3q.1CL@netcom.com> rudy@netcom.com (Rudy Wade) writes:
|> >In article <C5FMxD.2pM@cs.dal.ca> niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gord Niguma) writes:
|> >>reference to history because he certainly didn't have the best season for
|> >>second basemen in history. He probably didn't even have as good a season as
|> >>Alomar last year.
|> >
|> >What?  Do you have some measure (like popularity in Toronto doesn't count)
|> >that you are basing this statement on?
|>
|> Uh, yes.  Baerga has a lot of flash, but Alomar was the better hitter
|> last year.
|>
|> BATTERS        BA   SLG   OBP   G  AB   R   H  TB 2B 3B HR RBI  BB  SO SB CS  E
|> BAERGA,C     .312  .455  .354 161 657  92 205 299 32  1 20 105  35  76 10  2 19
|> ALOMAR,R     .310  .427  .405 152 571 105 177 244 27  8  8  76  87  52 49  9  5
|>
This is fascinating.  You say that Alomar was the better hitter last
year, and immediately follow that up with numbers showing that Baerga
had a better year.  The only category that I see which shows an advantage
for Alomar is OBP.
From: brian@meaddata.com (Brian Curran)
Subject: TIGER STADIUM GIF?
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Lines: 9
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: taurus.meaddata.com
Does anybody have a GIF of the Tiger Stadium seating chart?  Thanks!
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Curran                 Mead Data Central              brian@meaddata.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I didn't think I should've been asked to catch
when the temperature was below my age."
- Carlton Fisk, Chicago White Sox catcher,
on playing during a 40-degree April ball game
From: C558172@mizzou1.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: The 1964 Phillies: deja vu?
Organization: University of Missouri
X-Posted-From: mizzou1.missouri.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu
Lines: 16
In article <1993Apr14.222601.21160@cabell.vcu.edu>
csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby) writes:
>
>
>After reading my local paper today, I found out that the Phillies
>started the 1964 season at 10-2.  I am not as old as 1964, but I've
>heard many talk about the serious choke job the Phillies did that
>season. They were ahead of the Cardinals by 15 games that season in
>mid-August.  They managed to lose a bunch from then on and the
>Cardinals took the division.  15!!! games ahead and lost it.... I
>hope this season is MUCH different.
>
I don't.
--Shannon "Cardinals fan" Kohl
From: sbp002@acad.drake.edu
Subject: Re: Braves Pitching UpdateDIR
Lines: 41
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad.drake.edu
Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA
In article <1993Apr14.200649.12578@pts.mot.com>, ep502dn@pts.mot.com (Dave Naehring X2079 P7630) writes:
> In article 2482@adobe.com, snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>>Every single piece of evidence we can find points to Major League Baseball
>>being 50% offense, 50% defense.  A run scored is just as important as a run
>>prevented.
>>
> This certainly passes the "common sense test" for me, but is there any
> statistical evidence to say what percent of defense is pitching and what
> percent is fielding?  I'd really like to know.  BTW, Sherri, thanks for
> the DA data I find it fascinating.
Of course a run scored is just as important as a run prevented.
Just as a penny saved is a penny earned.  Enough with the cliches.
My point is that IF the Braves starters are able to live up to
their potential, they won't need much offensive support.
I realize this is a BIG IF.  This staff leaves the '92 BoSox in the dust.
There is no legitimate comparison.  Two Cy Young winners, and three other
pitchers that most any team in the league would kill to have as their first
or second starter.  It seems to me that when quality pitchers take the
mound, the other teams score less runs.  The team that scores the most
runs wins.  This puts the team with the better pitching at the advantage
(providing they can stop the opposing team from scoring runs).  A low
scoring game would clearly benefit the Braves.  They should have many
low scoring games due to their excellent pitching and below average hitting.
On the flip side, if you had a starting lineup of great offensive players,
I would be arguing that this team would not need great pitchers.
They would have an advantage because they could simply outscore their
opponent.  The name of the games is to win.  Even Ray Knight knows that
you do this by putting more runs up on the scoreboard.
All I'm trying to say is that if you assemble the quality pitchers
like the Braves have, the offense doesn't need to be as strong.
Sam
>
> -Dave
>
>
>>Sherri Nichols
>>snichols@adobe.com
>
From: shapiro-david@yale.edu (David Shapiro)
Subject: Re: TIGERS
Organization: What, me organized?
Lines: 8
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu
In-reply-to: Ryan Kearns's message of Wed, 14 Apr 1993 10:09:21 EDT
Woof woof!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Shapiro			| "People can call it a monkey, but I felt like
shapiro-david@yale.edu		| I had a piano on my back all winter long....
shapiro@minerva.cis.yale.edu	| The piano is off my back.  Maybe a trombone
| will be next."  -- Stan Belinda
From: rdetweil@boi.hp.com (Richard Detweiler)
Subject: Cards Mailing List?
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett Packard
Lines: 9
Count me interested in a Cardinal's mailing list.  If anyone
finds one or starts one, please let me know.
Thanks,
Dick Detweiler
rdetweil@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
From: alird@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Re: cubs & expos roster questions
Article-I.D.: Msu.0096B0F0.C5DE05A0
Reply-To: alird@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Lines: 13
In article <1993Apr15.003015.1@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu>, cvadrnlh@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu writes:
>Today (4/14) Cubs activated P Mike Harkey from DL, whom did they move to make
>room for Harkey?
>Also, are Delino Deshields & John Wetteland of the Expos on the DL?
>Thanks for anyone who can give me more info!
>/===
>Ken
>Cal Poly, Pomona
>
Wetteland is on the DL effective March 26 or something like that.
rick
From: kahn@troi.cc.rochester.edu (James Kahn)
Subject: Re: Tigers-A's
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)
Lines: 11
Nntp-Posting-Host: troi.cc.rochester.edu
In article <1993Apr14.185317.12231@sbcs.sunysb.edu> wynblatt@sbgrad5.cs.sunysb.edu (Michael Wynblatt) writes:
>
>Weird thing:  Leading 20-4 going into the top of the ninth, Sparky
>	      used his ace closer, Henneman.  The tigers have 8 relievers
>	      and at least 6 were rested/available.  Does Sparky trust
>	      them that little ?
I think he just wanted to get Henneman some work, because the
Tigers had days off both the day before and the day after.
Jim
From: gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman)
Subject: Re: PHILLIES SIGN MARK DAVIS
Organization: Lehigh University
Lines: 19
>> Does that mean they have to pay his salary?  Didn't they wait
>> for him to clear waivers?  If not, why not?
>>
Davis will be paid by three clubs this year, I think the Phils are
responsbible for about $600,000 or so.  They didn't wait for him to clear
waivers as three other clubs were also very interested in him.  A gamble?
Yes.
>> Oh, it will?  As a Royals fan, I am skeptical.  They say he pitched well
>> in winter ball.  He also pitched well at Omaha while with KC.  He just
>> didn't pitch well (or even acceptably) when in the majors.  (I don't have
>> his Atlanta stats, but he must not have impressed them very much either.)
>
>What about the year when he got 40+ saves in San Diego, did he pitch well
>then?  Ok, I know he was awful the next year when he went to KC but still...
>
Won the CY Young, too, for that year.
--
From: gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman)
Subject: Re: FLORIDA SUCKS!
Organization: Lehigh University
Lines: 12
In article <1993Apr13.232537.20672@cabell.vcu.edu>, csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian
M. Derby) writes:
>
>This talk about the Phillies winning the NL East is scary.  VERY
>scary!  Don't get me wrong, Im a Phillies fan but as late as last
>year they looked helpless.  The funny thing was they did have a lot
>of injuries in '92 spring training that basically killed their
>chances.  Of course, don't forget the Dykstra wrist injury in the
>first or second game?
>
First game, first at bat.
--
From: lbr@holos0.uucp (Len Reed)
Subject: Re: Players Rushed to Majors
Organization: Holos Software, Inc.
Lines: 15
In article <C5Hq3o.G4p@tss.com> hanson@tss.com (Hanson Loo) writes:
>Didn't Bob Horner go straight from Arizona State Univ.
>to the Atlanta Braves? I remember he had one great
>month hitting dingers and then the next I heard
>he was in Japan.
A month?  Well, he did have a short career--compared to what one might
have expected for such a highly touted prospect--due to being injury prone,
overweight, and having no work ethic.  But he certainly did not
suffer from being rushed to the bigs.
--
Len Reed
Holos Software, Inc.
Voice: (404) 496-1358 ext. 16
Domain: lbr@holos.atl.ga.usa   UUCP: lbr@holos0.UUCP
From: cub@csi.jpl.nasa.gov (Ray Miller)
Subject: Sid Fernandez?
Nntp-Posting-Host: chopin
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Distribution: usa
Lines: 10
I read this morning that Sid Fernandez left last nights' game with stiffness
in his shoulder. Does anyone have any information as to the extent of the
injury (if indeed there is one), or weather the cold air in Colorado just got
his joints a little stiff?
Thanks for the help...
|         Ray Miller           |            DISCLAIMER               |
|  cub@chopin.jpl.nasa.gov     |  All opinions are strictly my own   |
"I once spent a year in Philadelphia, I think it was on a Sunday" WCFields
egsner!ernest!m2.dseg.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!mksol!kerr.dseg.ti.com!kkerr@mkcase1.dseg.ti.com
From: kkerr@mkcase1.dseg.ti.com@MK (Kevin Kerr)
Subject: Re: YANKKES 1 GAME CLOSER
Organization: ENGINEERING AUTOMATION
Lines: 38
Nntp-Posting-Host: kerr.dseg.ti.com
In article <1993Apr6.233805.29755@freenet.carleton.ca> aa649@Freenet.carleton.ca (Ralph Timmerman) writes:
>From: aa649@Freenet.carleton.ca (Ralph Timmerman)
>Subject: Re: YANKKES 1 GAME CLOSER
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1993 23:38:05 GMT
>In a previous article, 002251w@axe.acadiau.ca (JASON WALTER WORKS) says:
>>    The N.Y.Yankees, are now one game closer to the A.L.East pennant.  They
>>clobbered Cleveland, 9-1, on a fine pitching performance by Key, and two
>>homeruns by Tartabull(first M.L.baseball to go out this season), and a three
>>run homer by Nokes.  For all of you who didn't pick Boggs in your pools,
>>tough break, he had a couple hits, and drove in a couple runs(with many more
>>to follow).  The Yanks beat an up and coming team of youngsters in the
>>Indians.  The Yankees only need to win 95 more games to get the division.
>> GO YANKS., Mattingly for g.glove, and MVP, and Abbot for Cy Young.
>>
>>                                             ---> jason.
>>
>Does that mean we have to read this drivel another 95 times this season?
>Please spare us... And check you facts before you post!
>--
>Ralph Timmerman                      "There is no life after baseball"
>aa649@freenet.carleton.ca
No one says you have to read any of it Ralph.. Go play in traffic.., or take
a nap... They work for me..
=========================================================================
|  Kevin Kerr                                kkerr@mkcase1.dseg.ti.com  |                                                                       #
|  President North Texas 'C' Programmers Users Group                    |
|  BBS-(214) 442-0223                                                   |
|  GO YANKEES !!!   GO DOLPHINS !!!                                     |
|                                                                       |
|  "Strolling through cyberspace, sniffing the electric wind...."       |
=========================================================================
Subject: Let it be Known
From: <ISSBTL@BYUVM.BITNET>
Organization: Brigham Young University
Lines: 10
I would like to make everyone aware that in winning the NL West the Atlanta
Braves did not lead wire-to-wire.  Through games of 4/14/93 the Houston
Astros are percentage points ahead of the "unbeatable" Braves.
Go Astros!!!!!
Byron T. Lee
A Native Texan
Stuck in Utah
From: jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez)
Subject: MLB Standings and Scores for Thu., Apr. 15th, 1993
Organization: JTC Enterprises Sports Division (Major League Baseball Dept.)
Lines: 73
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu
MLB Standings and Scores for Thursday, April 15th, 1993
(including yesterday's games)
NATIONAL WEST	      Won  Lost   Pct.    GB   Last 10  Streak    Home   Road
Houston Astros         05   03    .625    --     5-3     Won 5   00-03  05-00
Atlanta Braves         06   04    .600    --     6-4    Lost 1   03-03  03-01
San Francisco Giants   05   04    .556   0.5     5-4    Lost 1   02-01  03-03
Los Angeles Dodgers    03   06    .333   2.5     3-6    Lost 3   00-02  03-04
Colorado Rockies       02   05    .286   2.5     2-5    Lost 3   02-03  00-02
San Diego Padres       02   06    .250   3.0     2-6    Lost 3   00-03  02-03
Cincinnati Reds        02   07    .222   3.5     2-7    Lost 3   01-02  01-05
NATIONAL EAST
Philadelphia Phillies  08   01    .889    --     8-1     Won 5   05-01  03-00
Pittsburgh Pirates     06   02    .750   1.5     6-2     Won 3   03-02  03-00
St. Louis Cardinals    06   02    .750   1.5     6-2     Won 2   04-02  02-00
New York Mets          04   03    .571   3.0     4-3     Won 2   02-03  02-00
Chicago Cubs           04   05    .444   4.0     4-5     Won 1   01-02  03-03
Montreal Expos         03   05    .375   4.5     3-5    Lost 2   00-02  03-03
Florida Marlins        03   06    .333   5.0     3-6     Won 2   02-04  01-02
AMERICAN WEST         Won  Lost   Pct.    GB   Last 10  Streak    Home   Road
Texas Rangers          06   02    .750    --     6-2    Lost 1   04-02  02-00
California Angels      05   02    .714   0.5     5-2     Won 3   03-02  02-00
Oakland Athletics      04   03    .571   1.5     4-3    Lost 1   04-02  00-01
Seattle Mariners       04   03    .571   1.5     4-3     Won 1   03-02  01-01
Chicago White Sox      04   04    .500   2.0     4-4     Won 1   02-03  02-01
Minnesota Twins        04   04    .500   2.0     4-4    Lost 1   01-02  03-02
Kansas City Royals     01   07    .125   5.0     1-7    Lost 2   01-05  00-02
AMERICAN EAST
Boston Red Sox         06   02    .750    --     6-2     Won 2   02-00  04-02
New York Yankees       05   03    .625   1.0     5-3     Won 2   02-00  03-03
Toronto Blue Jays      04   03    .571   1.5     4-3    Lost 1   03-02  01-01
Detroit Tigers         03   04    .429   2.5     3-4     Won 1   01-00  02-04
Cleveland Indians      03   05    .375   3.0     3-5    Lost 2   02-01  01-04
Milwaukee Brewers      02   05    .286   3.5     2-5    Lost 4   00-02  02-03
Baltimore Orioles      02   06    .250   4.0     2-6     Won 1   00-02  02-04
YESTERDAY'S SCORES
(IDLE teams listed in alphabetical order)
NATIONAL LEAGUE				AMERICAN LEAGUE
Houston		9			Baltimore	6
Montreal	5			Texas		5
Pittsburgh     11			Seattle	       10
San Diego	7			Toronto		9 (10)
Chicago		6			Cleveland	7
Atlanta		0			Boston	       12
Cincinnati	2			California     12
Philadelphia	9			Milwaukee       2
New York	6			Kansas City	5
Colorado	3			New York	6
Florida		6			Minnesota     PPD
San Francisco	4			Chicago      RAIN
St. Louis	2			Detroit      IDLE
Los Angeles	1 (15)			Oakland      IDLE
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Hernandez          |    RAMS  | |    /.\  ******* _|_|_  / |   LAKERS
jtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU  |   KINGS  | |__ |   | DODGERS _|_|_  | |   RAIDERS
jtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU  |  ANGELS  |____||_|_| *******  | |  |___|  CLIPPERS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: University of Notre Dame - Office of Univ. Computing
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Subject: Re: Boog Powell (was re: CAMDEN YARDS)
<1993Apr13.150904.25249@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
Lines: 9
In article <1993Apr13.150904.25249@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, Mark B. says:
>
> Was he better than Balboni?
>
this borders on blasphemy.
bob vesterman.
Organization: University of Notre Dame - Office of Univ. Computing
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Subject: Re: NL vs. AL?
<93102.164224RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> <1993Apr13.184311.16351@news.yale.edu>
Lines: 23
In article <1993Apr13.184311.16351@news.yale.edu>, (Sean Garrison) says:
>
>In article <93102.164224RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>, RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu
>wrote:
>
>> pitchers who are doing well are
>> more likely to be taken out of the game in the nl than they are in the al,
>> so it seems to me that the al, not the nl, promotes pitchers' duels.
>>
>> bob vesterman.
>
>
>On what basis do you make this statement?
>
>                                Q Sean
are you serious? pitchers are pinch-hit for in the nl.  they are not in the
nl.  if a pitcher is cranking in the al, he will stay in the game.  if he
is cranking in the nl, he may not - ESPECIALLY if it's a pitchers' duel,
and his team needs an extra run.
bob vesterman.
Organization: University of Notre Dame - Office of Univ. Computing
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Subject: Re: ugliest swing
<1993Apr12.235334.25031@ptdcs2.intel.com> <34244@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
Lines: 16
In article <34244@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
says:
>
>What I think is hotdogish about his AB's is the way he leans out over
>the plate to watch outside pitches etc. This not done to get a better
>look at the pitch, but to make it seem,"this ball is so far out I need
>to lean just to get near it so you better call it a ball". This is my
>"unbiased" opinion of what I see. Your mileage will vary.......
>Rickey is agreat player to watch if you forget who he is at the time.
a lot of batters lean in when pitches come.  rickey's crouch tends
to exaggerate that, i think.
"a great player to watch if you forget who he is" - "unbiased"... hmmm...
bob vesterman.
From: poutsmaj@mace.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Subject: Re: Aguilera Causes Cardiac Arrest
Organization: Purdue University
Lines: 21
In article <1qi97dINNemh@phakt.usc.edu> wagner@phakt.usc.edu (Loren Wagner) writes:
>In article <1993Apr14.123722.24506@bmw.mayo.edu> bergerson@mayo.edu writes:
>>
>>Maybe you would rather have Ron Davis back ????   :^)
>>
>
>The truly amazing thing was how many years this bum was the closer for the
>Twins.  You'd have thought they could find *somebody* better.
>
>Don Daybell
>wagner@usc.edu
Going into the ninth with a 3 run lead, ...2 runs score...runners on
first and second...RD throws, "there's a drive waaaaaayyyyyyy back,
Puckett to the wall, leaps, He CAUGHT THE BALL!!!!  WHAT A CATCH BY KIRBY!!
TWINS WIN!"  and RD gets the save.  His line 1 IP, 2 walks, 2 hits, and
one robbed home run...
paul
From: srubio@garnet.berkeley.edu (Steven Rubio)
Subject: Re: Kevin Rogers
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Lines: 8
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu
Rogers is the "one-batter lefty" in the bullpen.  Dusty has also said he
trusts Rogers to get the final out in a ballgame where Beck is
unavailable, so you might see a couple of saves for Kevin.  Then again, if
any of the regular rotation falters, Rogers is a possible candidate to
start, though this would appear less likely now that Dave Burba did well
in an emergency start.
Steven
From: gt7469a@prism.gatech.EDU (Brian R. Landmann)
Subject: Torre: The worst manager?
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 31
Joe Torre has to be the worst manager in baseball.
For anyone who didn't see Sunday's game,
With a right hander pitching he decides to bench Lankform, a left handed
hitter and play jordan and gilkey, both right handers.
Later, in the ninth inning with the bases loaded and two outs he puts
lankford, a 300 hitter with power in as a pinch runner and uses Luis
Alicea, a 250 hitter with no power as a pinch hitter.  What the Hell
is he thinking.
Earlier in the game in an interview about acquiring Mark Whiten he commented
how fortunate the Cardinals were to get Whiten and that Whiten would be a
regular even though this meant that Gilkey would be hurt, But torre said
he liked Gilkey coming off the bench.  Gilkey hit over 300 last year,
what does he have to do to start, The guy would be starting on most every
team in the league.
Furthermore, in Sundays game when lankford was thrown out at the plate,
The replay showed Bucky Dent the third base coach looking down the line
and waving lankford home,
I can't take this anymore
brian, a very distressed cardinal fan.
--
Brian Landmann
Georgia Institute of Technology
Internet:gt7469a@prism.gatech.edu
From: jja2h@Virginia.EDU ("")
Subject: Re: Brien Taylor: Where is he?
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 9
Last year Brein Taylor was in A ball, probably at Tampa in the
Florida State League.  I believe he began this year in AA which
is Albany.  Hopefully George won't rush him and he'll be
allowed to progress at his own rate to AAA and then to the
Bronx.  This guy is the real thing.
Jonathan Alboum
UVA
From: jja2h@Virginia.EDU ("")
Subject: WFAN
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 14
Does any one out there listen to WFAN?  For those of you who do
not know what I am talking about, it is an all sports radio
staion in New York.  On a clear night the signal reaches up and
down the East coast.  In particular, I want to know how Len
Berman and Mike Lupica's show is.  I go to school in Virginia
so I can't listen when there are on during the day.  Just
wondering.
Jonathan Alboum
UVA
PS.  Did any one see Steve Sommers on 48 hours last night.  The
Chief was on too, doing Rangers Round up.  It was pretty neat
shmoozing S P O R T S on TV.
From: rcasteto@watsol.uwaterloo.ca (Ron Castelletto)
Subject: Orioles Phillies Red Sox
Keywords: orioles phillies red sox baltimore philadelphia boston bosox
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Lines: 20
Can someone send me ticket ordering information for the
following teams:  Baltimore, Philadelphia and Boston.
Also, if you have a home schedule available - can you tell me the dates
for all home games between July26-Aug6 and between Aug30-Sept10 and if
any of these games are promotion nights or special discount nights?
Thanks !!!  Ron
PS: and also who the opponents are for these games :-)
Do NOT reply to this account,
please reply to:  ronc@vnet.ibm.com
__        _                 IBM Canada Lab Database Technology
|  \      / \                Associate Development Analyst
|__/ on   |  astelletto      (416) 448-2546 Tie Line: 778-2546
| \_      \_/                Internal Mail: 51/843/895/TOR
From: bprisco@shearson.com (Bobby Prisco)
Subject: Re: Pleasant Yankee Surprises
Reply-To: bprisco@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Lines: 30
In article 120399@netnews.upenn.edu, sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall) writes:
>
>And now, the not so pleasant surprises:
>
>	2)Tartabull. The book on Tartabull was, keep him healthy and
>	  he'll produce. Well, he hasn't done too much so far. Sure. he's
>	  hit a few homers, but those were all solo shots, and he hasn't
>	  gotten any of the "big" RBIs that your cleanup man is supposed
>	  to give you. Then again, he had a slow start last year (once he
>	  got off the DL, that is) and turned into a one-man wrecking crew
>See you in the Series!
>
>-Alan
Let's see... April 15th... less than 30 at bats.... and you claim that he
hasn't done too much so far!
Cut this guy some slack. Danny will produce this year. It's scary to think
just how much he'll produce if he were to stay healthy all year.
The Yanks have a lot going for them this year: good starting rotation, good
bullpen, good defense and a good lineup. Also, I like Buck Showalter. Frank
Howard on 1st is also a good move. Everything sounds good so far.
If the Yanks stay healthy, they have a good chance at winning the pennant. This
is the most fun I've had watching the Yanks since "78!
-Bobby
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Old Predictions to laugh at...
Summary: LONG!
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Lines: 404
Oops!  I came across this file from last year.  Thought you might
enjoy some of these thoughts.  The predictions were made on the
date indicated.  They are largely out of order.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
June 11, 1992
tedward@cs.cornell.edu (ME!)
>What have I done?  I computed the "expected winning percentage" for
>each team from their OBP, total bases, and runs allowed.  I use the
>basic RC formula and the pythagorean projection.  I then compare this
>with their actual winning percentage.  All stats through June 7.
>
>Team           OBP    TB    RA     W     L    XWP  Diff
>baltimore    0.351   768   199    33    21  0.647   -36
>boston       0.334   580   176    26    25  0.548   -38
>toronto      0.319   750   221    34    22  0.540    68
>new york     0.327   759   237    28    26  0.523    -5
>milwaukee    0.325   692   226    28    25  0.498    31
>detroit      0.328   782   285    24    31  0.448   -11
>cleveland    0.316   688   274    22    34  0.386     7
>minnesota    0.353   797   237    30    24  0.585   -29
>oakland      0.350   719   236    32    23  0.532    50
>texas        0.324   815   281    33    26  0.469    90
>chicago      0.325   601   212    25    27  0.459    22
>california   0.307   664   231    22    32  0.438   -30
>kansas city  0.310   656   239    22    32  0.420   -13
>seattle      0.310   726   290    22    33  0.376    24
You all know how things turned out.  The Orioles, Red Sox, and Yankees
all disappeared.  The Jays and Tigers continued at essentially the
expected pace.  The Brewers and Indians cranked in the second half.
The Rangers predictably took a dive.  That shouldn't have surprised
anybody.  Meanwhile, as predicted, the Mariners dropped behind the
Angels and Royals.  They clearly didn't deserve the 22-33 record in
June.  The White Sox and A's upped their game a bit, while the Twins
dropped off a little.  But for the most part things were as expected.
Okay, so there were a few blatant errors.  But for a predictive
calculation, I thought this did pretty well.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From CAVGEOE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu Tue Mar 31 16:36:34 1992
>1. The Braves insert Kent Mercker into the starting rotation
>sometime this year (1992).  Bielecki is traded or released, Lei-
>brandt becomes the fifth starter, and the best bullpen in baseball
>has Pena, Berenguer, Stanton, Wohlers, Freeman, and Pete Smith, who
>spot-starts as well.
Hm.  Pete Smith made the rotation instead of Mercker.  And Bielecki
wasn't released until the end of the year.  I won't comment on the
bullpen.  (Jeff Reardon???  :-)
>2. Blauser wins the starting shortstop job outright by the end
>of May.  Bream goes on the DL, and Klesko goes on a nice hitting
>honeymoon (a la Gregg Jefferies in 1988) platooning with Hunter.
>Mitchell wins the center field job a bit later (All-Star break?) and
>Nixon stays on as a valuable pinch-runner.  Lonnie is released unless
>the Braves find a taker in a trade.
Right on Blauser.  Wrong on Bream and Mitchell.  A bit early on
Lonnie, as with Bielecki.  Didn't pick Sanders.  (Did anybody? :-)
>3. Managers to be fired this year (1992) in chronological order:
>Fregosi, Showalter, Valentine, Riddoch
Three of them went, right?  Showalter is still around (and likely to
stick, it seems).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From mattel.Auto-trol.COM!mattel@auto-trol.com Tue Mar 31 17:04:22 1992
>1) Bonds gets traded from Bucs for some young talent.
Nope!  They won the division, and so kept him for a shot at the
playoffs.
>2) Mets win division
:-)  Well, they didn't finish last.
>3) Atlanta repeats in the West
Got that one right.
>4) Yankees surprise everyone, but finish second behind Toronto.
Nope.
>5) Dwight Gooden wins 20, but is surpassed by Saberhagen who wins 22.
I guess this is why you picked the Mets to win, huh?
>6) Roger Clemens is injured early in the season.
Tsk Tsk.  Not nice to predict something like this.
>7) Strawberry fails to hit even 20 home runs and is often injured.
>8) Due to 7, Dodgers drop out of race.
You got that right!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And my response...
>From tedward Tue Mar 31 17:57:42 1992
>
>Hmph!  Can tell you are a Mets fan!  Do you mind if I make some counter
>predictions against yours?  They follow:
>2) Mets come in third, behind Pittsburgh and Montreal.
Okay, so the Mets finished fifth.  But I got the Pirates and Expos
right!
>4) The Yankees offense and pitching flounders, dropping them to fourth
>   place in the AL East.  Boston wins 95 games, the division, the pennant,
>   and the World Series.
First half?  Dead on!  Second half?  Ummm....  I'm a Sox fan, go easy
on me!
>5) Dwight Gooden rushes his comeback, gets blown out, and goes on the DL from
>   May through mid-July.
>   Saberhagen runs a .500 record; WFAN criticizes the Mets for "giving away
>   that great talent Jefferies", who has a solid year in KC.
So I got my predictions for Gooden and Saberhagen reversed.  :-)  I
was at least *close*, and was right about Jefferies.  (Though I don't
know.  HAS WFAN criticized the Jefferies trade?)
>6) Roger Clemens wins another CY, as well as 20 games.
Close.  No cigar.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In article <UdqcEAO00VpeII_lI1@andrew.cmu.edu>, al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Amit Likhyani) writes:
> Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.baseball: 1-Apr-92 Re: NL East( Smiley
> trade's.. CAVGEOE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale. (591)
>
>>      OPS Projected for 1992:
>>                              HoJo .792
>
> I will streak naked down Forbes avenue if HoJo does not muster more than
> a .792 OPS.  Something is wrong with that projection.
Some predictions need no introduction!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From navarra@casbah.acns.nwu.edu Mon Apr 13 02:09:15 1992
>>From tedward@cs.cornell.edu
>>Do you care to put your prediction down for posterity?  You predict
>>Mark Grace will get 90+ RBIs.  I say you are out of your mind.  That
>>is almost impossible for a 10-HR type guy batting behind Dawson.  (Who
>>kills most of the rallies he doesn't finish.)
>
>	Why do you say that? Mark has driven in 82 ('90) and 79 ('89).
>Last year Mark was batting second primarily and it was his worse year
>average wise. Since he is batting either 3rd or 5th this year I predict
>he will be back up to his previous standards (I think he will be better)
>90 rbi's is not that much of a stretch.
Sometimes us statheads get lucky.  Grace *didn't* hit behind Dawson
the entire season, but he also finished with only 79 RBIs.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From nss3@midway.uchicago.edu Tue May 19 22:09:06 1992
>
>The most ballsy prediction ever:
>
>Mark McGwire will hit 61 or more HRs this year.
Nope.  He slowed down, and the injury finished him off.  Didn't
even reach 50.  But a ballsy prediction, nonetheless.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From ECAXRON@MARS.LERC.NASA.GOV Thu May 21 16:42:21 1992
>(1) Baltimore will not fade.  They will not win the division this year,
>    but they will finish within five games.  I find the prospect of two
>    Orioles winning 20 each easier to comprehend than that of two Sox.
>    No offense - I think their pitching is about as good as the division
>    has to offer.
The Orioles finished seven games out.  None of them won 20 (though
Mussina might have had a chance, with better relief and more starts).
>(2) Nobody else in the division is worth a darn.  They all finish a minimum
>    of fifteen games out, the Tribe 30.  That's another reason to watch
>    Baltimore this year and next - they won't waste many of those games
>    against the rest of the division.
Except for the Brewers (who you probably forgot), you were right!  The
rest of the division was thoroughly mediocre.  The Yankees and Indians
"led" with 76 wins, the Red Sox "trailed" with 73 wins.  None were
horrible, but four were five or more games below .500.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: djohnson@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (David Johnson)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 15:47:30 GMT
>Right.  That was me.  I never said the Jays were a cinch to clinch it
>but I said that Milwaukee will be more of a threat than Baltimore.  I
>do think that Toronto should win it but after '87 I don't consider
>anything a cinch unless you have something like a 4 game lead with 3
>games to go.  I do think that the Jays have the best talented team in
>the AL East and if we had a good, or even average manager we might
>have a bigger lead right now.  I also think that the Orioles will not
>play much better than .500 baseball for the rest of the season.
You win!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From king@cogsci.UCSD.EDU Thu Nov 14 14:33:45 1991
>
>In article <1991Nov13.060413.9187@cs.cornell.edu> you write:
>>7. Indians	the first and only 0-162 season ever!  :-)
>
>Prediction:  The Cleveland indians will win 70 or more games next year.
You were right!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu Fri Sep 13 01:15:52 1991
>
>1. Jose Rijo will win the 1992 Cy Young award IF he is healthy enough to go
>at least 210 IP. (Who would have thought he would try to steal a base? Why
>risk such an injury???)
He had 211 IP, but didn't win the Cy Young.  Maddux surprised all.
>2. The Orioles will win 88+ games in at least 3 of the next 6 years
>(probably the last 3) and their pitching staff will have a team ERA
>among the best 4 in the AL in at least 3 of the next 6 years (but not
>necessarily all the same years as they win 88+). This one will take a
>long time to verify.
I don't think I want to wait that long.  But they won 89 games last
year, and they were fifth in the league in ERA.  Not a bad start.
>4. Ben McDonald will not challenge for an ERA title in the next 2
>years, nor will he have 18+ victories either year. (By challenge, I
>mean FINISH among the leaders; being among the leaders BEFORE the
>season is done doesn't count.)  He will probably never be the pitcher
>he was hyped to be, but is still a decent starter to have.
Looks like it.  He wasn't bad last year, just too consistent to be an
ace.  So far this year looks like more of the same.
>5. The Phillies will give up *many* fewer walks if/when they get rid of their
>bullpen coach (Ryan). (I am not predicting when or whether they will get rid
>of him, and you will have to give the team a little bit of time to adjust
>before seeing the radical change. They would have a fine pitching staff if
>they would just steal Ray Miller away from Pittsburg. The White Sox seem to
>have the same problem, but not as bad.)
I honestly can't say.  Did they get rid of him?  Their BB totals were
down last year.
>7. Ricky Jordan will have 90+ rbi IF he starts 145+ games, hitting in
>the 3 or 4 or 5 spot in any lineup or the 6 spot in a lineup with very
>good OBP in the 4,5 hitters. This applies for each of the next 3
>years.
I just don't think he's that good....
>12. Billy Ripken will *never* again hit over .240 with 400+ AB.
:-)  So far, so good.  I'm *definitely* not waiting to check this one.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From panix!spira@cmcl2.NYU.EDU Fri Sep 13 12:38:08 1991
>
>No matter what Lou Gorman and his scouts say, Paul Quantrill will
>never ever be an adequate major league starter.  Never!  (I have never
>seen a starting pitcher who can only strike out 3 per 9 innings at AAA
>be successful in the majors.)
Current plans seem to be to use Quantrill in long relief.  He has a
rubber arm and unusual delivery.  He might be decent in that role.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From lyle@ecn.purdue.edu Sat Sep 14 01:51:28 1991
>      M.V.P. - `92
>A.L. - Frank Thomas
>N.L. - Hal Morris
>
>      Division Winners - `92
>A.L. East - Baltimore Orioles
>A.L. West - Chicago White Sox
>A.L. Pennant - Chicago White Sox
>N.L. East - St. Louis Cardinals
>N.L. West - Cincinatti Reds
>N.L. Pennant - Cincinatti Reds
>W.S. Champion - Cincinatti Reds
Wrong on all of the above.  (Hal Morris????)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And my favorites!
From tedward Sun Oct 20 23:52:57 1991
>
>Belle will not walk as many as 50 times in 1992.
>Belle will hit more HR than he has walks in 1992.
Belle hit 34 HR last year, walking 52 times (but five of those were
intentional!).  Okay, so I exaggerate.  But I *might* have been right.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From trn@strdev.jhuapl.edu Tue Mar 31 15:25:28 1992
>
>> Are the O's going to sign Cal, of is Eli's wallet welded shut (outgoing
>> money only, wide open for incoming cash 8-))
>
>My prediction (which you may make note of, Valentine :-) ), is that Eli Jacobs
>will defer any serious negotiations on Cal Ripken's contract until the '92
>season is over.  Eli will give Cal every opportunity to have his stats tumble
>a bit from last year's pace before coming forth with an offer.
>
>(Despite claims that OP@CY was designed to Cal's strength, my feeling is that
>the 411 foot left-center "canyon" will cut down on Cal's power stats.)
>
>After all, it's hard to credibly to offer $3-4 million/year to an
>All-Star game MVP/AL MVP/Gold Glove shortstop/baseball deity :-) --
>but it'd be a lot easier to offer a similar salary to an "obviously
>declining but above average" shortstop who had a career year one full
>season ago.
>
>Of course, if Cal *does* match his '91 numbers, then Eli is going to be faced
>with a rather huge (and expensive) problem...
How much did Cal sign for?  When did he sign?  If I remember
correctly, he got a rather hefty contract despite a weak season.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And finally....
From jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca Thu Sep 12 10:35:58 1991
>
>Generally, because of expansion in 1993, there will be a lot of
>mediocre talent hanging around. Much of it will not make it, as the
>expansion teams look for younger talent around which to build their
>teams. My specific predictions:
>
>As of April 7, 1993:
>
>Jim Acker and Cory Snider will be selling aluminum siding.
Snyder is still in SF.  Acker is gone??
>Neither Charlie Kerfeld nor Vance Lovelace (presently in Tiger AA but
>formerly big leaguers) will be playing professional ball.
They aren't in the majors.
>Nor will Dave Rozema (who says he's keeping in shape with a hope for
>another shot with expansion).
Never heard of him.
>Shawn Hare and Jody Hurst will be in the major leagues.
>(They are outfielders in the Tiger minor league system)
I don't *think* they are in the majors.
>Ron Hassey will be a minor league manager with the Yankees.
Dunno what happened to him.
>It will be bye-bye for Balboni.
If he's still around, he's stuck in the minors.
>Bo Jackson will _not_ be a starter.
Hm.  With Raines out, Bo looks to get a lot of PT.
>Gary Huckaby will have moved to Alaska permanently (they're on the
>net!),
:-)
>and Dave Kirsch will return to Canada to live.
Hm.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for listening!
-Valentine
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: I've found the secret!
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Lines: 15
Why are the Red Sox in first place?  Eight games into the season, they
already have two wins each from Clemens and Viola.  Clemens starts
again tonight, on three days rest.
What's up?  Are the Sox going with a four-man rotation?  Is this why
Hesketh was used in relief last night?
Hm.
Cheers,
-Valentine
P.S. I was wrong.  The Sox have already scored 18 runs in two games
this week.  They should reach 25 without trouble.  I still think it's
a fluke.
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate)
Subject: Re: Braves Pitching UpdateDIR
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering
Lines: 54
sbp002@acad.drake.edu said:
>> In article 2482@adobe.com, snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>>>Every single piece of evidence we can find points to Major League Baseball
>>>being 50% offense, 50% defense.  A run scored is just as important as a run
>>>prevented.
>Of course a run scored is just as important as a run prevented.
>Just as a penny saved is a penny earned.  Enough with the cliches.
It's not a cliche, and (unlike your comments below) it's not a tautology.
It needn't have been true.  If every pitcher in baseball were essentially
the same in quality (i.e. if the variance of pitching ability were much
smaller than the variance of batting ability), then scoring runs would be
much more important than preventing them, simply because the *ability* to
actively prevent runs would be much weaker.
>My point is that IF the Braves starters are able to live up to
>their potential, they won't need much offensive support.
If that's your point, you should have said so.  What you in fact said was
"Pitching and defense win championships", and later "Pitching is the essence
of baseball".  Neither of which says what you are now claiming was "your
point", and neither of which is true.
>It seems to me that when quality pitchers take the
>mound, the other teams score less runs.  The team that scores the most
>runs wins.
And you accuse Sherri of mouthing cliches!?
>This puts the team with the better pitching at the advantage
>(providing they can stop the opposing team from scoring runs).  A low
>scoring game would clearly benefit the Braves.
It's not clear to me at all that this is true.  In high-scoring games, the
team with the better offense wins a high percentage of the time.  In low-
scoring games, the split is essentially 50/50 regardless of team ability.
>They should have many
>low scoring games due to their excellent pitching and below average hitting.
>On the flip side, if you had a starting lineup of great offensive players,
>I would be arguing that this team would not need great pitchers.
I thought you said "pitching and defense win championships" and "pitching is
the essence of baseball".
--
David M. Tate   (dtate+@pitt.edu) |  Greetings, sir, with bat not quick
member IIE, ORSA, TIMS, SABR    |  Hands not soft, eye not discerning
|  And in Denver they call you a slugger?
"The Big Catullus" Galarraga      |  And compare you to my own Mattingly!?
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate)
Subject: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series
Distribution: na
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering
Lines: 34
Substituting irony for brains, (Bruce Klopfenstein) said:
>dtate+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes:
>> Of *course* they left RBIs off; we're comparing Alomar the individual with
>> Baerga the individual, so only individual stats count.
>I forgot.  Most runs are scored by players stealing home, so RBI don't
>count for anything.
Uh, right.  You also forgot that you can't get an RBI (barring a HR) with
nobody on base.  What fraction of all runs come on solo HR?
Most runs are scored because there happened to be players on base when the
batter did something good.  I use the phrase "happened to be" advisedly.
Lots of people have tried to figure out who the players are who have the
most ability to "turn it up a notch" in clutch/RBI/whatever situations, and
what they've found is that there is no evidence that *anyone* has such an
ability to any measurable extent.  There are no clutch hitters.  People who
tend to do things that *would* cause an RBI if there were somebody on base
end up getting RBIs proportional to how many of their teammates obliged by
being in position.
>My mistake.
I agree.
--
David M. Tate   (dtate+@pitt.edu) |  Greetings, sir, with bat not quick
member IIE, ORSA, TIMS, SABR    |  Hands not soft, eye not discerning
|  And in Denver they call you a slugger?
"The Big Catullus" Galarraga      |  And compare you to my own Mattingly!?
From: hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks)
Subject: Re: Spanky Released
Keywords: WHY!?!
Organization: Colorado Needs the Huckabay Kiteball Campaign Committee
Lines: 45
In article <1993Apr12.130652.22090@sei.cmu.edu> wp@sei.cmu.edu (William Pollak) writes:
[Deletions]
>
>Spanky isn't very good defensively anymore, he's an offensive liability, and,
>judging from his outburst this winter after the Bucs failed to sign Drabek,
>he's a jerk with his head in the sand. Tommy Prince, on the other hand, can't
>hit. In the paper, Simmons was citing the case of Tom Pagnozzi, who never hit
>in the minors or majors, but suddenly somehow learned how.
Geez, Dal must have slipped something into Ted's drink sometime.  Comparing
Prince to Pagnozzi offensively is laughable.  Prince has never hit well in
the minors and he's now 27 years old, I think.  Pagnozzi was not a bad hitter
in the minors.  (I'll bring in the numbers tomorrow assuming I don't have
another brain cramp and forget.)  He had a very good year at Louisville
before coming up to the majors.  As I recall, the hype on Pagnozzi coming up
in the organization was good hit, decent fielding.  When he got to the
majors and didn't hit as well as expected (not as much playing time?), he
became Exhibit 312 in Nichols' Law of Catcher Defense and got the reputation
as an outstanding defensive catcher.  It's not clear he ever learned to
hit.  His four years with more than 100 AB--
Born 31 July 1962
Year     AB      BA     SLG     OBA
1988    195    .282    .320    .328
1990    220    .277    .373    .321
1991    459    .264    .351    .317
1992    485    .249    .359    .290
No power, less-than-league-average walks, peak year when he turned 28,
now declining.  If Ted is going to invoke Pagnozzi as a model for Prince,
given that Prince has underperformed Pagnozzi in the minors, it's not
a rosy picture.
BTW, I'm still unhappy with moving Zeile, who had the same reputation
coming up in the Cardinal organization as Pagnozzi, except that he was
a much, much better hitter, to 3rd where he could be an average hitter
and a below average fielder instead of a well-above average hitter
as an average (or below average) fielding catcher.
Harold
--
Harold Brooks                    hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
National Severe Storms Laboratory (Norman, OK)
"I used to work for a brewery, too, but I didn't drink on the job."
-P. Bavasi on Dal Maxvill's view that Florida can win the NL East in '93
From: m_klein@pavo.concordia.ca (CorelMARK!)
Subject: Re: Players Rushed to Majors
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Nntp-Posting-Host: pavo1.concordia.ca
Organization: Concordia University
Lines: 6
I missed the original post, but aren't the Expos rushing alomost their
entire team this year?  I am from Montreal, and am a fan, but geez, the
Expos rank 27th in salary (only the Rockies trail) and someone at
the average age would probably be in first year University!
CorelMARK!
From: m_klein@pavo.concordia.ca (CorelMARK!)
Subject: Re: cubs & expos roster questions
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Nntp-Posting-Host: pavo1.concordia.ca
Organization: Concordia University
Lines: 26
In article <0096B0F0.C5DE05A0@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>, alird@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes...
>In article <1993Apr15.003015.1@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu>, cvadrnlh@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu writes:
>>Today (4/14) Cubs activated P Mike Harkey from DL, whom did they move to make
>>room for Harkey?
>>Also, are Delino Deshields & John Wetteland of the Expos on the DL?
>>Thanks for anyone who can give me more info!
>>/===
>>Ken
>>Cal Poly, Pomona
>>
>
>Wetteland is on the DL effective March 26 or something like that.
>
>rick
Wetteland comes off the DL on April 23rd, and will be evaluated on the 24th.
He is throwing well, and without pain on the side.
DeShields is not on the DL.  He suffered from the chicken pox and lost
(this is the official total) 12 pounds.  He will be back, hopefully,
next week.
Walker will be back this tonight or tomorrow...
CorelMARK! from Montreal.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago, academic Computer Center
From: David Browdy <U31851@uicvm.uic.edu>
Subject: Re: cubs & expos roster questions
<0096B0F0.C5DE05A0@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>
Lines: 1
To make room for Harkey, the Cubs sent Shawn Boskie down to AAA.
From: st1rp@rosie.uh.edu (Schwam, David S.)
Subject: Re: Astros Are Back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Organization: University of Houston
Lines: 80
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: rosie.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
In article <C5HHwv.CvK@austin.ibm.com>, marc@yogi.austin.ibm.com (Marc J. Stephenson) writes...
>Keeping in line with the pessimists on the net, I'll hold off on the Astros
>being all the way back.  They could indeed contend, but that would count on
>  1) Atlanta encountering some unforeseen problems, such as injuries or keeping
>     up their early season abysmal hitting.
While Atlanta has the undisputed best starting rotation, I feel that their
relief staff may be suspect.  They don't have a real closer -- although
Mike Stanton (4 saves) has been used in that role.  Didn't Stanton start off
great last year and then falter?  Despite this, your point is well taken.
Atlanta doesn't seem to have the same personality as a NY team, thus is
unlikely to self-destruct.  For Houston to take 'em, Atlanta needs to
suffer some injuries, particularly to their starting rotation.
>  2) Astros relief corps holding together.  If Doug Jones keeps his changeup
>     effective and Xavier Hernandez can be effective, then it's passable.
>     There's no reasonable left-handed help, and the middle relief is iffy.
>     Tom Edens was expected to take over the Joe Boever setup man role, but
>     he's been injured, and he was an expansion team acquisition anyway.
>     Houston thought that Boever would demand too much money, so they let him
>     go.  Doug Jones can lose his touch - he went from Cleveland's all-star
>     closer to the minors in a pretty short span.
From what I understand, Boever and Murphy were considered expendable by the
club.  Houston felt that their positions could be filled by a number of
players..  Art  Doug Jones is the key to Houston's success.  He must have
another great year for Houston to challenge in the NL West.
lousey spring.
>     closer to the minors in a pretty short span.
Right!  A strong rotation will take the pressure off of the troubling
bullpen.
>     bit of shakiness at the fifth starter slot (but that's basically normal).
>  4) Taubensee, Anthony, Gonzalez, and Cedeno fulfilling some hitting potential.
>     Anthony appears to be about there, Taubensee's swing looks a lot better
>     this year (solid knock against Expos last night), Gonzalez is showing
>     some early power, and Cedeno still has the loopiest swing this side of
>     Tim Wallach.
The unsuspected strength of the lower part of the order has saved the
club so far.  Biggio and Finley just aren't doing their job of getting
on base.  Instead of filling his role as an RBI man, Bagwell has had to
assume Biggio and Finley's job.  Biggio concerns me, since he usually
starts the season very strong.
* * * * * *
On a side note, are you at all concerned with the rumors concerning
next year's uniform?  There is talk that their road uniform will be
(blech..) traditional grey, with the word "HOUSTON" written across the
chest.  If I'm not mistaken, their home uniforms may totally eliminate
the color orange (shiver..).  McLane's favorite color is red, so...
I'm really upset.. the current unforms are dull and the new ones sound
horrible.  I'd like to see the uniform of the mid-1980s return.  They
may not have been pretty, but Houston had established a long precident of
wearing the ugliest uniforms in baseball -- and I liked it.
>end of the bargain (remember two years ago? a little relief goes a long way),
>then they COULD win 90 games.  But, I doubt it.  I'll project them at 85 wins.
>
>Astros fan since the days of Staub, Morgan, Jackson, Aspromonte, Dierker, ...
>--
>Marc Stephenson	           IBM AWS (Advanced Workstations & Systems - Austin,TX)
>DISCLAIMER: The content of this posting is independent of official IBM position.
>INTERNET->marc@austin.ibm.com      VNET: MARC at AUSVMQ        IBM T/L: 678-3189
Astros fan since the days of Ryan, Scott, Smith, Cruz, Davis, Bass, Hatcher...
--- --- --- --- --- ---
David S. Schwam
University of Houston
st1rp@jetson.uh.edu
--- --- --- --- --- ---
From:  (Steve Tomassi)
Subject: DAVE KINGMAN FOR THE HALL OF FAME
Nntp-Posting-Host: berkeley-kstar-node.net.yale.edu
Organization: Yale Computing Center
Lines: 39
Hi, baseball fans! So what do you say? Don't you think he deserves it?
I
mean, heck, if Dave Winfield (ho-hum) is seriously being considered for it,
as
is Lee Smith (ha), then why don't we give Dave Kingman a chance? Or Darrell
Evans! Yeah, yeah! After the Hall of Fame takes in them, it can take in
Eddie
Murray and Jeff Reardon.
Well, in any case, I am sick and tired (mostly sick) of everybody
giving
Hall of Fame consideration to players that are by today's standards,
marginal.
Honestly, Ozzie Smith and Robin Yount don't belong there. They're both
shortstops that just hung around for a long time. Big deal.
Let's be a little more selective, huh? Stop handing out these honors
so
liberally. Save them for the guys who really deserve it. Face it, if
something
isn't done, there will be little prestige in the Hall of Fame anymore. When
certain individuals believe that Steve Garvey or Jack Morris are potential
candidates, the absurdity is apparent. Gee, can these guys even compare to
the more likely future Hall of Famers like Kirby Puckett or Nolan Ryan?
� Steve
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Seeking Moe Berg reference/info
Originator: news@nimaster
Nntp-Posting-Host: crux.princeton.edu
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: na
Lines: 29
In article <C5HvFs.4Dw@news.cis.umn.edu> lsmith@deci.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith) writes:
>In article <14APR93.19061416@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>>David Tate writes:
>>>Also, in particular, a colleague of mine is looking for any information he
>>>can find on Moe Berg, catcher/linguist/espion of WW2.  Any references (or
>>>anecdotes, for that matter) would be appreciated.
>>Moe Berg, my hero!  We were just talking about him on Monday at the
>>Yankee game.  Well, there's a book about him that's just been reissued:
>>I think the title is _Moe Berg: Athlete, Scholar, Spy_, by Tom Sewell
>>and two other people whose names I forget.  Sewell wrote the chapter
>>on Berg in Danny Peary's book _Cult Baseball Players_; this is a good
>>source for some of the more famous anecdotes about Berg.  Also excellent
>>is the section on him in Bill Gilbert's book _They Also Served_, about
>>baseball during WWII.  I'm told Berg's spy activities are mentioned in
>>the recent book _Heisenberg's War_.
>His sister also "wrote" a book about Moe that she self-published. The
>title is something like _My Brother, Morris Berg_. It's mainly some of
>her memories and page after page of Xerox copies of pictures and letters
>that Moe had saved. Copies are kinda hard to find, but the Smith Baseball
>Library has one for those in Minneapolis...
We have one here, at Berg's alma mater (class of 1923).  It's kind of
a sour thing; she disapproved of the job that Sewell et al had done.
Roger
From: mcdowell@iies.ecn.purdue.edu (James M McDowell)
Subject: Texas Ranger Ticket Info
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Lines: 4
Would someone please give me the address for Texas Ranger
ticket orders. Thanks very much.
Jim
From: rdetweil@boi.hp.com (Richard Detweiler)
Subject: Re: Torre: The worst manager?
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise Printer Division
Lines: 75
From another not-so-distressed-but-still-wondering-about-a-few-things
Cardinal fan:
In article <93095@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt7469a@prism.gatech.EDU (Brian R. Landmann) writes:
>Joe Torre has to be the worst manager in baseball.
>
He's not the greatest - this is true.
>
>For anyone who didn't see Sunday's game,
>
I saw it.
>
>With a right hander pitching he decides to bench Lankform, a left handed
>hitter and play jordan and gilkey, both right handers.
>
Lankford was hurt, although the announcer said he told Torre he
could pinch hit if they needed him to.
>
>Later, in the ninth inning with the bases loaded and two outs he puts
>lankford, a 300 hitter with power in as a pinch runner and uses Luis
>Alicea, a 250 hitter with no power as a pinch hitter.  What the Hell
>is he thinking.
>
I wondered the same thing.  But giving Joe the benefit of the
doubt, I'd say he was thinking that Lankford is hurt enough that
he didn't trust his ability to bat effectively but he wants his
speed on the bases so pinch run him.  Alicea I was completely
confused about.  Maybe he had a good record hitting against that
particular pitcher?  I don't know.  Anybody got an idea?
>
>Earlier in the game in an interview about acquiring Mark Whiten he commented
>how fortunate the Cardinals were to get Whiten and that Whiten would be a
>regular even though this meant that Gilkey would be hurt, But torre said
>he liked Gilkey coming off the bench.  Gilkey hit over 300 last year,
>what does he have to do to start, The guy would be starting on most every
>team in the league.
>
Well, so far I haven't seen much to say Whiten shouldn't be playing
but it is too bad that Gilkey is the odd man out when they play
Jordan ahead of him.  That I don't quite understand.
>
>Furthermore, in Sundays game when lankford was thrown out at the plate,
>The replay showed Bucky Dent the third base coach looking down the line
>and waving lankford home,
>
Yup, I looked for this on the replay too.  If I'm Joe Torre, I'm
going to have a talk with Bucky after the game on that one.  He's
got Lankford at third with Todd Zeile I believe - a hot hitter -
coming up - there's no reason to risk giving Lankford the go sign
in that situation unless he was sure the ball is going to the stands.
It's his job to watch the play develop - he should have known Larkin
was there to back up a bad throw.  That seemed inexcusable in my book.
BTW, I saw Dent do the same thing last year with Zeile rounding third
and going into a sure out at home in a critical situation.  On the
replay, there's Dent waving him around.  It looks like this might be a
serious problem.  The Card's weren't good base runners at all last year
and I wonder how much of the fault lies in the base coaching.
>
>I can't take this anymore
>
Well, I'm still hanging in there.
GO REDBIRDS!!  WOOF, WOOF!!!
>brian, a very distressed cardinal fan.
>--
>
>Brian Landmann
>Georgia Institute of Technology
>Internet:gt7469a@prism.gatech.edu
Dick Detweiler
rdetweil@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
From: philly@ravel.udel.edu (Robert C Hite)
Subject: Re: DAVE KINGMAN FOR THE HALL OF FAME
Nntp-Posting-Host: ravel.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Lines: 39
In article <1993Apr15.093231.5148@news.yale.edu> (Steve Tomassi) writes:
>Honestly, Ozzie Smith and Robin Yount don't belong there. They're both
>
>shortstops that just hung around for a long time. Big deal.
Are you for real?  How many Gold Gloves does Ozzie Smith have?  If a
guy hung around and hit 30 homers a year for 15 years, wouldn't he
be a given for the Hall?  Is defense not just as important?  And if
Robin Yount couldn't hit, why would he have stuck around long enough
to get 3,000 hits?  Are you saying 3,000 hits is a fluke?  3,000
hits is no big deal?
>     Let's be a little more selective, huh? Stop handing out these honors
>so
>
>liberally. Save them for the guys who really deserve it. Face it, if
>something
>
>isn't done, there will be little prestige in the Hall of Fame anymore. When
>
>certain individuals believe that Steve Garvey or Jack Morris are potential
>
>candidates, the absurdity is apparent. Gee, can these guys even compare to
I agree, Garvey and Morris don't deserve it.
>the more likely future Hall of Famers like Kirby Puckett or Nolan Ryan?
Well, based on your argument, Nolan Ryan doesn't deserve the Hall of
Fame.  He is just a right hander who stuck around for a long time
and could throw hard.  Very few 20 game winning seasons, lots of
losing seasons, lots of walks.  No Cy Young awards.  How does Nolan
Ryan compare to a guy like Steve Carlton who dominated 5 or 6 Major
League seasons, won 7 divisons, 2 World Series, and won half of his
teams games in 1972?  He doesn't compare.  Not even close.
Kirby Puckett hasn't done it long enough for me.  Give me 5 more
seasons like he's been having, then I'll think about it.
From: philly@ravel.udel.edu (Robert C Hite)
Subject: Re: WFAN
Nntp-Posting-Host: ravel.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Lines: 26
In article <1993Apr15.151202.3551@Virginia.EDU> jja2h@Virginia.EDU ("") writes:
>Does any one out there listen to WFAN?  For those of you who do
>not know what I am talking about, it is an all sports radio
>staion in New York.  On a clear night the signal reaches up and
>down the East coast.  In particular, I want to know how Len
>Berman and Mike Lupica's show is.  I go to school in Virginia
>so I can't listen when there are on during the day.  Just
>wondering.
The FAN is an okay Sports Radio station, but doesn't come close to
the ULTIMATE in Sports Radio, 610 WIP in Philadelphia.  The signal
might not be as powerful, but then again only stations in New York
feel "obligated" to pollute everyone else's airwaves with a bunch of
hoodlum Mets fans complaining 24 hours a day.  WIP took two of your
best sports jockeys too, Jody MacDonald and Steve Fredericks.  610
WIP is rockin with sports talk from 5:30 AM till midnight, check it
out anytime your within a few hours of Philadelphia.  If I'm not
mistaken, WIP has the highest sports talk ratings in the nation?
-Rob
p.s the only nice thing about the FAN is that they talk sports all
night.  hopefully 610 will begin to do that somewhat soon
From: jrogoff@scott.skidmore.edu (jay rogoff)
Subject: Re: Expanded NL Strike Zone? (Was Re: A surfeit of offense?)
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Lines: 5
It was my impression watching the Mets & Rockies that umpires were
calling strikes above the belt, too, but not as far up as the letters.
It would be nice if this were the case.
Jay
From: acsddc@smucs1.umassd.edu
Subject: Fenway Gif
Reply-To: acsddc@smucs1.umassd.edu
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Lines: 5
I was wondering if anyone had any kind of Fenway Park gif.
I would appreciate it if someone could send me one.
Thanks in advance.
-Dan
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago, academic Computer Center
From: <U49839@uicvm.uic.edu>
Subject: Re: Harry Caray
Distribution: na
Lines: 17
last night bill veeck cam to me in my dreams and this is what he said:
cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck
cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs scuk
cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs cuck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck
cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck
cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck cubs suck
oh yeah, he aqlso added that harry is a drunken idiot who shoulda
stayed in st louis where his heart is, but also added that fair weathered
fans all like to be together.  i guess this is the reason harry is now
a cub fan, bud man.  note he never really left st, louis.
jim walker
go sox, cubs suck!
From: philly@ravel.udel.edu (Robert C Hite)
Subject: Re: Old Predictions to laugh at...
Nntp-Posting-Host: ravel.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Lines: 24
In article <1993Apr15.160316.9170@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>
>Oops!  I came across this file from last year.  Thought you might
>enjoy some of these thoughts.  The predictions were made on the
>date indicated.  They are largely out of order.
much crap deleted
>>3. Managers to be fired this year (1992) in chronological order:
>>Fregosi, Showalter, Valentine, Riddoch
>
>Three of them went, right?  Showalter is still around (and likely to
>stick, it seems).
DEAD WRONG!  Last time I checked, Jim Fregosi was still managing the
Phillies, and doing quite a fine job thank you...best record in
baseball at 8-1
MY PREDICTION FOR 1993:
Jim Fregosi will win manager of the year in the NL
(don't flame me..flame the bum who thinks he got fired last year.
PAY ATTENTION KIDDO!)
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: DAVE KINGMAN FOR THE HALL OF FAME
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 59
(Steve Tomassi) writes:
>     Hi, baseball fans! So what do you say? Don't you think he deserves it?
>I
>
>mean, heck, if Dave Winfield (ho-hum) is seriously being considered for it,
>as
>is Lee Smith (ha), then why don't we give Dave Kingman a chance? Or Darrell
>Evans! Yeah, yeah! After the Hall of Fame takes in them, it can take in
>Eddie
>Murray and Jeff Reardon.
>     Well, in any case, I am sick and tired (mostly sick) of everybody
>giving
>Hall of Fame consideration to players that are by today's standards,
>marginal.
>Honestly, Ozzie Smith and Robin Yount don't belong there. They're both
>shortstops that just hung around for a long time. Big deal.
>     Let's be a little more selective, huh? Stop handing out these honors
>so
>liberally. Save them for the guys who really deserve it. Face it, if
>something
>isn't done, there will be little prestige in the Hall of Fame anymore. When
>certain individuals believe that Steve Garvey or Jack Morris are potential
>candidates, the absurdity is apparent. Gee, can these guys even compare to
>the more likely future Hall of Famers like Kirby Puckett or Nolan Ryan?
>
>Q Steve
What's the difference between Nolan Ryan and Yount?  Both have hung
around for years, and continue to post great stats.  Why shouldn't Dave Kingman
get into the Hall?  Or Murray, Evens, Reardon, and others?  What the hell do
you have to do?  Ask an opposing pitcher whether he thinks that Winfield should
be in the hall...  God.  Pretty soon you'll be saying that Cal Ripken doesn't
deserve to be in the Hall.  Then, I'll flame you. :-)
--
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
******************************Neil Peart, (c)1981*****************************
*"Quick to judge, Quick to Anger, Slow to understand, Ignorance and Prejudice*
*And********Fear********Walk********************Hand*********in*********Hand"*
From: re4@prism.gatech.EDU (RUSSELL EARNEST)
Subject: Re: Players Rushed to Majors
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 29
In article <1993Apr15.145753.21557@holos0.uucp>, lbr@holos0.uucp (Len Reed) writes:
> In article <C5Hq3o.G4p@tss.com> hanson@tss.com (Hanson Loo) writes:
> >Didn't Bob Horner go straight from Arizona State Univ.
> >to the Atlanta Braves? I remember he had one great
> >month hitting dingers and then the next I heard
> >he was in Japan.
> A month?  Well, he did have a short career--compared to what one might
> have expected for such a highly touted prospect--due to being injury prone,
> overweight, and having no work ethic.  But he certainly did not
> suffer from being rushed to the bigs.
Sorry Len, this is exactly how he suffered from being rushed to the bigs.
Being overweight and having no work ethic, leading to being injury prone with
nothing to loose, might have been corrected in Richmond.  (Did you intend a
smiley after your comment?)
This brings back the long suffering memories of pre-chop Braves fans who
kept being promised the Bob Horner - Dale Murphy back to back power slam.  Who
could stop that?  Guess we'll never know.
P.S. - Rocky fans (are there any yet?)  Is Dale getting any playing time out
there?  I plan to be at the game on June 28th, they'll have to play him then.
--
"Read that to memory and process it!" - RUSSELL EARNEST
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!re4
ARPA: russell.earnest@housing.gatech.edu
From: dholle15@ursa.calvin.edu (David Hollebeek)
Subject: Phillies Mailing List?
Nntp-Posting-Host: ursa
Organization: Calvin College
Lines: 7
Anyone know of a phillies mailing list out there? .... they don't get much
coverage up here in Grand Rapids, MI *sob*
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Elaborate .signature files are for people who aren't as busy as I am" -DH 1992
---------------------David-Hollebeek---dholle15@ursa.calvin.edu----------------
From: scasburn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Steven M Casburn)
Subject: Re: Do people want stats?
Nntp-Posting-Host: magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
Lines: 19
In article <10010717@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> dougs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Steele) wri
tes:
>   This is a "Top 10" posting for the AL.
>
>               HOME RUNS                           HITS
>        Batter      Team    HRs          Batter      Team  HITS
>      Gonzalez       Tex     5         Baerga         Cle   13
>      Palmer         Tex     4         Phillips       Det   13
Did anyone think that Texas would have the top two home run leaders at a
given point in the season and neither one would be Jose Canseco?
Steve
[]
--
Steve Casburn (scasburn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu)
"I personally despair of results from anything but violent and ruthless
truth-telling -- that will work in the end, even if slowly"
-- John Maynard Keynes, 1919
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago, academic Computer Center
From: <U49839@uicvm.uic.edu>
Subject: Re: White Sox Update
<1993Apr11.213102.4954@midway.uchicago.edu>
Lines: 9
i think lamont is tryin sax out in left because he is messing with his
mind.  he is trying to stir loose the mental block that he has had.
sax was supposed to play in left last night (4-14) but we were rained
out.  it's not like we need to add any more outfielders to our team.
it's mental
jimmy
go sox, cubs suck!  (that's the white sox, dontcha know?)
From: jaeastman@anl.gov (Jeff Eastman)
Subject: Re: cubs & expos roster questions
Organization: Argonne National Laboratory
Lines: 23
In article <15APR199312304021@pavo.concordia.ca>, m_klein@pavo.concordia.ca
(CorelMARK!) wrote:
>
> In article <0096B0F0.C5DE05A0@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>, alird@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes...
> >In article <1993Apr15.003015.1@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu>, cvadrnlh@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu writes:
> >>Today (4/14) Cubs activated P Mike Harkey from DL, whom did they move to make
> >>room for Harkey?
> >>Also, are Delino Deshields & John Wetteland of the Expos on the DL?
> >>Thanks for anyone who can give me more info!
> >>/===
> >>Ken
> >>Cal Poly, Pomona
> >>
> >
> >Wetteland is on the DL effective March 26 or something like that.
> >
> >rick
The Cubs sent Boskie to Iowa to make room for Harkey.
_______________
Jeff Eastman
jaeastman@anl.gov
_______________
From: jerry@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com (Gerald Lanza)
Subject: Re: Seeking Moe Berg reference/info
Organization: Olivetti North America (Shelton, CT)
Lines: 23
In article <8813@blue.cis.pitt.edu> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes:
>I seem to have misplaced the baseball bibliography that was posted here
>recently.  (That's what happens when you have to split a heap of disorganized
>files from one machine among two others.)  Could some kind soul repost the
>bibliography, or mail me a copy?
>
>Also, in particular, a colleague of mine is looking for any information he
>can find on Moe Berg, catcher/linguist/espion of WW2.  Any references (or
>anecdotes, for that matter) would be appreciated.
>
>Dave
>
I believe SI had an in-depth article on Moe a while ago. I remember
that the article revealed some new facts regarding the secretive
Moe. My SI subscription expired this past February, the second of
two years that I received same. Therefore my guess is that the
article appeared sometime in 1991-92.
Can anyone else be more definitive as to a date of the SI article ?
jerry
From: jerry@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com (Gerald Lanza)
Subject: Re: The 1964 Phillies: deja vu?
Keywords: Phillies
Organization: Olivetti North America (Shelton, CT)
Lines: 21
In article <1993Apr14.222601.21160@cabell.vcu.edu> csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby) writes:
>
>After reading my local paper today, I found out that the Phillies
>started the 1964 season at 10-2.  I am not as old as 1964, but I've
>heard many talk about the serious choke job the Phillies did that
>season. They were ahead of the Cardinals by 15 games that season in
>mid-August.  They managed to lose a bunch from then on and the
>Cardinals took the division.  15!!! games ahead and lost it.... I
>hope this season is MUCH different.
Strictly from memory, I think the Phillies were something like
ten games up with 12 to go, lost 10 in a row, and 11 of last 12
to lose to the Cardinals. Seems impossible, but thats how I
remember it. I also felt at the time that Johnny Callison of
the Phillies lost the MVP as a by-product of their swoon.
jerry
P.S. In 1964, a single team out of 8 won the pennant; no divisions.
From: jerry@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com (Gerald Lanza)
Subject: Re: '61 Orioles Trivia
Organization: Olivetti North America (Shelton, CT)
Lines: 20
In article <1993Apr14.190432.1706@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen) writes:
>In article <1993Apr13.151809.1286@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, sparky@balsa.lle.rochester.edu (Michael Mueller) writes:
>|> Hi All,
>|>
>|> Does anyone know who were the 4 pitchers for the 1961 Orioles
>|> that were referred to as the "Kiddy Corp" because they were so young?
>
>Steve Barber  22   18-12
>Chuck Estrada 23   15-9
>Jack Fisher   22   10-13
>Milt Pappas   22   13-9
>
This list brings to mind possible the worst trade since Babe for
NONO NANNETTE, i.e., Milt Pappas for Frank Robinson, I think in
1965 ?. Robinson proceeded to win the triple crown in 1966 and
may have beaten out Yaz in '67 but was injured on a slide into
second when he collided with the mighty Al Weis (Chisox).
jerry
From: wynblatt@sbgrad5.cs.sunysb.edu (Michael Wynblatt)
Subject: Dumb Fans (Was Re: Indians Woofing)
Keywords: woofing
Nntp-Posting-Host: sbgrad5
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Lines: 22
In article <795.2bcc3ee1@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> letizia@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>Do you mean just like Reds' fans?  Have you listened to WLW anytime they open
>up the lines for fans to call?  Talk about clueless idiots!  The broadcasters
>are just as bad too.
>
>JL
The New York talk shows are just awful in this regard.  People are constantly
calling WFAN and WABC with (stuff like) "I was thinking, why don't the Yankees
trade Kaminicki and Silvestri to Seattle for Ken Griffey Jr and Randy Johnson,
that would really help the team"  or "Do you think the Yankees can get Roger
Clemens?".  The show hosts are pretty good about handling these guys, but it's
still annoying.
The best one was at the end of one show, a caller started out with "I was
thinking, why don't the Yankees trade for..." and then the host hung up on
him.  I cheered!
Michael
From: wynblatt@sbgrad5.cs.sunysb.edu (Michael Wynblatt)
Subject: Re: TIGERS
Keywords: Tigers
Nntp-Posting-Host: sbgrad5
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Lines: 15
In article <93104.100921RK0VSANU@MIAMIU.BITNET> Ryan Kearns <RK0VSANU@MIAMIU.BITNET> writes:
>I think that the Detroit Tigers are the greatest baseball organization of all
>time.
...
[shameless woofing deleted]
On behalf of the rest of us Tiger fans out here, I appoligize for this
shameless woofing.  We try to keep it to a minimum, but we did WIN A GAME
the other day, so sometimes it's hard to control.  see: Phillies Fans
:-)
Michael
From: kja@watson.ibm.com ( Kenneth J. Arbeitman)
Subject: Missing subject header
Reply-To: kja@bones.fishkill.ibm.com ( Kenneth J. Arbeitman)
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Nntp-Posting-Host: bones.fishkill.ibm.com
Organization: IBM East Fishkill                                                        Subject: Re: Torre: The worst manager?
Lines: 39
In article <93095@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt7469a@prism.gatech.EDU (Brian R.
Landmann) writes:
|> Joe Torre has to be the worst manager in baseball.
|>
|> For anyone who didn't see Sunday's game,
|>
|> With a right hander pitching he decides to bench Lankform, a left handed
|> hitter and play jordan and gilkey, both right handers.
That's because Lankford had a minor injury from a couple of games
before that
and was day-to-day... only available as a pinchrunner.
|>
|> Later, in the ninth inning with the bases loaded and two outs he puts
|> lankford, a 300 hitter with power in as a pinch runner and uses Luis
|> Alicea, a 250 hitter with no power as a pinch hitter.  What the Hell
|> is he thinking.
See above.
|>
|> Earlier in the game in an interview about acquiring Mark Whiten he commented
|> how fortunate the Cardinals were to get Whiten and that Whiten would be a
|> regular even though this meant that Gilkey would be hurt, But torre said
|> he liked Gilkey coming off the bench.  Gilkey hit over 300 last year,
|> what does he have to do to start, The guy would be starting on most every
|> team in the league.
|>
At the beginning of the interview Torre also said Lankford is the
one outfield
guy who's "in there no matter what".
My guess is Jordan will eventually end up being odd man out due to low
on base percentage.  Whiten was a great acquisition... decent offense
and great defense in rightfield.  But don't worry, Gilkey will be
starting
as soon as Jordan or Whiten displays an extended period of low offensive
output.
From: west@esd.dl.nec.com (Mike West)
Subject: Re: Dean Palmer Hurt?
Nntp-Posting-Host: swan.esd.dl.nec.com
Organization: Engineering and Support Division, NEC America, Inc.
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Edward Ouellette (edo@casbah.acns.nwu.edu) wrote:
: I think Dean got hit by a pitched ball the other night... he got pinch hit for
: and didn't play against Baltimore tonight... whats up with that? Is he hurt?
: Please tell me he's not...
He evidentally got hit in the elbow by a Fernando pitch.  His arm swelled
from the elbow to the wrist (or something like that).  They took X-rays
of the arm and there is nothing damaged.  He missed the last game with the
Orioles, but he is suppose to be ready for the next game.
Hope this helps.
Mike West
west@esd.dl.nec.com
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Subject: Scoring runs. Was Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series
Distribution: na
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego
Lines: 23
Nntp-Posting-Host: beowulf.ucsd.edu
In article <8966@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, dtate+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes:
|> Uh, right.  You also forgot that you can't get an RBI (barring a HR) with
|> nobody on base.  What fraction of all runs come on solo HR?
Actually, for the Padres this year so far it's 23%.  They are 5th in
the league in HRs, and ALL have been solo shots.
Pythagorean projection puts them at .360 winning percentage
or 58-104.  Need some pitching help, fast!
Good news, though, is that Hurst has been throwing curveballs
w/o any pain.  Threw 80 pitches yesterday.  Should be back
in a couple of weeks.  Maybe we can trade him to the Yankees
for Militello.
Dave
--
Dave DeMers			 	        demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	0114		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: js8484@albnyvms.bitnet
Subject: Re: Pleasant Yankee Surprises
Reply-To: js8484@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of Albany, SUNY
Lines: 89
In article <120399@netnews.upenn.edu>, sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall) writes:
>
>Some pleasant (and then some not so pleasant) surprises about the 1993
>edition of the Bronx Bombers so far.
>
>First, the pleasant:
>
>	1)Spike Owen.  All through spring training, this guy was
>	  looking like the second coming of Mike Gallego, but with
>	  even worse hitting. Now the guy is third in the major leagues
>	  in BA, and he's ranked pretty high in total hits and runs
>	  scored. I know it's still early in the season, but he and
>	  Pat Kelly (more on him in a minute) have provided a lot of
>	  spark at the bottom of the order that's given the big guys
>	  (Mattingly, Tartabull, O'Neill) plenty of RBI opportunities.
>	  Let's hope he keeps this up.
>
>	2)Pat Kelly. The guy is finally showing some of the ability
>	  that led Stick Michael to label him a "star for the 90s".
>	  I wouldn't go that far, but Kelly looks infinitely improved
>	  at bat (I guess the tips he took from Boggs in spring training
>	  really paid off. Huh! And here I thought Boggs would never
>	  do anything to help anybody besides himself!). And his glove,
>	  like always, has been terrific (he and Mattingly comprise the
>	  best defensive right side of the infield in all of baseball IMHO).
>
>	3)Paul O'Neill. We had to get rid of Roberto Kelly, partly
>	  because he was under too much pressure in NY to be the next
>	  Barry Bonds (he won't do that in Cincy, either), and partly
>	  because he had this real unprofessional tendency to give up
>	  in the second half of the year. I just felt that we could've
>	  gotten more for him than O'Neill. Well, so far, O'Neill is
>	  turning out just fine. He looks like he should be able to
>	  duplicate (if not surpass) Mel Hall's numbers from last year,
>	  and he keeps opposing pitchers from pitching around Tartabull.
>	  Now, if only Buck would play him against lefties some more to
>	  see what he can do!
>
>	4)Wickman. A friend made a comparison between Wickman and Jack
>	  Morris - they never have impressive stats but they always
>	  find some way to win (although Morris seems to be losing that
>	  ability). I figured that Wickman would be the least important
>	  part of the Steve Sax trade (best trade since we got that Ruth
>	  guy), maybe winding up as a good middle reliever. But I like what
>	  I've seen so far. He doesn't pitch pretty, but he gets the job done.
>
>	5)Key. What's going on here? Key was just supposed to provide
>	  the rotation with some stability (you know, shore up the left
>	  side, provide experience, get maybe 15 wins), and here this guy
>	  is *dominating* everybody he faces! Who needs Maddux or Cone (0-2)?
>	  I'll take Key any day.
>
>And now, the not so pleasant surprises:
>
>	1)Spike Owen. Sure, he's hitting like crazy, but the guy *cannot*
>	  field to save his life! And they said he was brought in to
>	  provide defense? Velarde, Stankiewicz, and even Silvestri
>	  are better defensively than Owen.
Remember - it's still early. Look for his offense to tail off, and his
defense to improve (hopefully). He has that rep because I heard that either
last year, or over the last 5 years, or something like that - he has the third
highest fielding percentage among major league shortstops - behind C.R. and
Tony (I'm not gonna help this sorry Mets team at all) Fernandez. I do agree
though that he has not looked all that impressive in the field thus far.
>
>	2)Tartabull. The book on Tartabull was, keep him healthy and
>	  he'll produce. Well, he hasn't done too much so far. Sure. he's
>	  hit a few homers, but those were all solo shots, and he hasn't
>	  gotten any of the "big" RBIs that your cleanup man is supposed
>	  to give you. Then again, he had a slow start last year (once he
>	  got off the DL, that is) and turned into a one-man wrecking crew
>	  late in the year, so we'll see.
>
>	3)The Bullpen. UGH!!!!!What happened? We were supposed to have
>	  one of the most solid pens in the majors! Meanwhile, the pen
>	  has already blown three saves (maybe more - I haven't checked).
>	  The great Howe/Farr lefty/righty tandem? Farr's ERA is in the
>	  20s or 30s, and Howe's is.....infinite. (I didn't think such
>	  a thing was possible, but it is). Hopefully, they'll get their
>	  acts together, or else Buck's gonna burn out the starters
>	  for fear that the bullpen'll blow a lead.
>
>In the immortal words of the Scooter, "Holy Cow, Seaver! That Johnny Key
>guy can pitch, can't he?"
>
>See you in the Series!
>
>-Alan
From: DAK988S@vma.smsu.edu
Subject: Re: Torre: The worst manager?
Organization: SouthWest Mo State Univ
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NNTP-Posting-Host: vma.smsu.edu
X-Newsreader: NNR/VM S_1.3.2
In article <93095@hydra.gatech.EDU>
gt7469a@prism.gatech.EDU (Brian R. Landmann) writes:
>
>Joe Torre has to be the worst manager in baseball.
>brian, a very distressed cardinal fan.
>--
No....Hal McRae is the worst manager in baseball.  I've never seen a guy who
can waste talent like he can.  One of the best raw-talent staffs in the league,
and he's still finding a way to lose.  I'll be surprised if he makes it through
the next 2 weeks, unless drastic improvement is made.
An even more frustrated Royals fan,
Darin J. Keener      dak988s@vma.smsu.edu
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: DAVE KINGMAN FOR THE HALL OF FAME
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Lines: 17
In article <C5JBsE.KKK@news.udel.edu> philly@ravel.udel.edu (Robert C Hite) writes:
>
>Are you for real?  How many Gold Gloves does Ozzie Smith have?  If a
>guy hung around and hit 30 homers a year for 15 years, wouldn't he
>be a given for the Hall?  Is defense not just as important?
Frankly, no.  Offense and defense are equally important.  But the
pitcher is 80% of the defense.  The primary role of every other player
is on offense.  Even shortstops are a bigger part of the offensive
game than of the defensive game.  (They might not do much with their
part of the offense, but that's another issue.)
That being said, I think both Smith and Yount deserve the HOF.  They
hit pretty well in addition to their defense.
Cheers,
-Valentine
From: erics@netcom.com (Eric Smith)
Subject: Re: The 1964 Phillies: deja vu?
Keywords: Phillies
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 12
jerry@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com (Gerald Lanza) writes:
>	P.S. In 1964, a single team out of 8 won the pennant; no divisions.
Make that ten, not eight. The Mets and Astros joined the N.L. in 1962.
-----
Eric Smith
erics@netcom.com
erics@infoserv.com
CI$: 70262,3610
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Old Predictions to laugh at...
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Lines: 12
In article <C5JCrF.KrM@news.udel.edu> philly@ravel.udel.edu (Robert C Hite) writes:
>
>DEAD WRONG!  Last time I checked, Jim Fregosi was still managing the
>Phillies, and doing quite a fine job thank you...best record in
>baseball at 8-1
Look, asshole, I got him confused with somebody else.  I didn't flame
you, and I would appreciate it if you extended me the same courtesy.
No, I don't know everything in the world.  Does that surprise you?
-Valentine
From: thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Article-I.D.: midway.1993Apr15.221049.14347
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Lines: 32
In article <1qkkodINN5f5@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> pablo@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Pablo A Iglesias) writes:
>In article <15APR93.14691229.0062@lafibm.lafayette.edu> VB30@lafibm.lafayette.edu (VB30) writes:
>>Just wondering.  A friend and I were talking the other day, and
>>we were (for some reason) trying to come up with names of Jewish
>>baseball players, past and present.  We weren't able to come up
>>with much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and
>>maybe John Lowenstein.  Can anyone come up with any more.  I know
>>it sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but
>>humor us.  Thanks for your help.
>
>Hank Greenberg would have to be the most famous, because his Jewish
>faith actually affected his play. (missing late season or was it world
>series games because of Yom Kippur)
The other Jewish HOF'er is Rod Carew (who converted).
Lowenstein is Jewish, as well as Montana's only representative to the
major leagues.
Undeserving Cy Young award winner Steve Stone is Jewish.  Between Stone,
Koufax, Ken Holtzman (? might have the wrong pitcher, I'm thinking of the
one who threw a no-hitter in both the AL and NL), and Big Ed Reulbach,
that's quite a starting rotation.  Moe Berg can catch.  Harry Steinfeldt,
the 3b in the Tinkers-Evers-Chance infield.
Is Stanky Jewish?  Or is that just a "Dave Cohen" kinda misinterpretation?
Whatever, doesn't look like he stuck around the majors too long.
--
ted frank                 |
thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu |         I'm sorry, the card says "Moops."
the u of c law school     |
standard disclaimers      |
From: g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com (Glenn R. Waugaman)
Subject: Re: I've found the secret!
Article-I.D.: nntpd.1993Apr15.193907.24177
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 23
In article <1993Apr15.161730.9903@cs.cornell.edu>, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes...
>
>Why are the Red Sox in first place?  Eight games into the season, they
>already have two wins each from Clemens and Viola.  Clemens starts
>again tonight, on three days rest.
>
>What's up?  Are the Sox going with a four-man rotation?  Is this why
>Hesketh was used in relief last night?
Clemens is going on his normal four days' rest (last pitched Saturday).
Hesketh only pitched one inning yesterday afternoon, his first outing
since an aborted 1-1/3 inning start 6 days before, so he should be plenty
rested to go in his expected turn this Saturday, as the 5th starter.  Not
that this is a good thing, of course.  I'd like to see a well-managed
four-man rotation with this team...
---
Glenn Waugaman
Digital Equipment Corporation
Littleton, MA
g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com
---
From: sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Article-I.D.: netnews.120665
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 18
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
In article <15APR93.14691229.0062@lafibm.lafayette.edu> VB30@lafibm.lafayette.edu (VB30) writes:
>Just wondering.  A friend and I were talking the other day, and
>we were (for some reason) trying to come up with names of Jewish
>baseball players, past and present.  We weren't able to come up
>with much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and
It's Stankiewicz, not Stankowitz, and he's not Jewish - he's Polish
(by the way, the correct pronunciation - according to Stanky himself,
is "ston-KEV-itch". all the sportscasters get it wrong)
>maybe John Lowenstein.  Can anyone come up with any more.  I know
>it sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but
>humor us.  Thanks for your help.
The only other Jewish ballplayer I can think of is Ron Blomberg, who is
best known as being the first DH to appear in a major league ballgame.
-Alan
From: brucek@Ingres.COM (Bruce Kleinman)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Article-I.D.: pony.1993Apr15.223040.8733
Organization: Ingres Corporation, A subsidiary of The ASK Group, Inc.
Lines: 12
In article <15APR93.14691229.0062@lafibm.lafayette.edu> VB30@lafibm.lafayette.edu (VB30) writes:
>Just wondering.  A friend and I were talking the other day, and
>we were (for some reason) trying to come up with names of Jewish
>baseball players, past and present.  We weren't able to come up
>with much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and
>maybe John Lowenstein.  Can anyone come up with any more.  I know
>it sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but
>humor us.  Thanks for your help.
Hank Greenberg, Sid Gordon, Ron Blomberg.
Guess it goes from the sublime to the ridiculous.
From: steven@advtech.uswest.com ( Steve Novak)
Subject: Re: Old Predictions to laugh at...
Article-I.D.: advtech.1993Apr15.203546.14540
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Lines: 25
Nntp-Posting-Host: jaynes.advtech.uswest.com
> = (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>> = (Robert C Hite) writes:
>>DEAD WRONG!  Last time I checked, Jim Fregosi was still managing the
>>Phillies, and doing quite a fine job thank you...best record in
>>baseball at 8-1
>Look, asshole, I got him confused with somebody else.  I didn't flame
>you, and I would appreciate it if you extended me the same courtesy.
What _is_ your problem?  Hite's post wasn't a flame.  It was a
correction of *your* error.
YOUR reply was a flame.
>No, I don't know everything in the world.  Does that surprise you?
Not in the least.
--
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Steve Novak |    |"Ban the Bomb!"  "Ban the POPE!!"|
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
steven@advtech.USWest.Com
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Subject: Re: Braves Pitching UpdateDIR
Nntp-Posting-Host: koufax.cv.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Lines: 24
In article <1993Apr15.001211.18457@adobe.com>, snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
|> In article <1993Apr14.200649.12578@pts.mot.com> ep502dn@pts.mot.com writes:
|> >This certainly passes the "common sense test" for me, but is there any
|> >statistical evidence to say what percent of defense is pitching and what
|> >percent is fielding?
|>
|> Not yet; I wish there were.  It's much more difficult to tease these apart
|> than to tease apart scoring runs and preventing runs.
And thus, we come to one of the true beauties of baseball; these things, along
with many others will never be separated. Almost *everything* in baseball is
situational and interdependent. This is what allows us to carry on all the
arguments that we have. If everything could be explained and balanced on a
statistical basis, none of the wonder and mystery would be left. Why we might
have to resort to just going out the ballyard and enjoy the game itself.
--->Paul, feeling a little anti-stathead today
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We will stretch no farm animal beyond its natural length
paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511
home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
A SABR member since 1979
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Subject: Re: A true story - Way to go Omar
Keywords: Mariners, grand slam, Omar Vizquel
Nntp-Posting-Host: koufax.cv.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Lines: 23
In article <1993Apr14.173236.14321@esca.com>, vigil@esca.com (Sandra Vigil) writes:
|> Yesterday, April 14th, a friend and I were discussing the theory put
|> forth by a local sports radio station personality that the
|> Commissioner-less baseball owners had snuck a live ball into this years
|> baseball games in an effort to increase home run numbers and attract
|> fans.
It's always possible, but if this is the case, I think that there is some
blatant discrimination going on here. Clearly Selig is allowing the opposition
to use pre-1920 baseballs against the Dodgers.
|> Well, guess who stepped up to the plate for his first career grand slam
|> last night against the Jays?  None other than my boy.  It was truly a
|> sight to behold.
And almost more impressive was that he also got an intentional walk.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We will stretch no farm animal beyond its natural length
paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511
home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
A SABR member since 1979
From: hymowitz@hull.cs.jhu.edu (Hymie!)
Subject: Re: And America's Team is....But Why?
Organization: Creative Sensualities dept, Jacquie's House of Underwear
Lines: 23
kingoz@camelot.bradley.edu (Orin Roth) writes:
>   Well, officially it's the Braves. At least up until they started winning
>   it was. Are they still, officially?
>   If so, why? and how did they receive this label?
my understanding was that ted turner (owner of the braves) started running
his tv station nationwide, and started running all of his team's games on
his nationwide tv station, he dubbed his team ''america's team'' - that is,
the only team (at least, at the time) all of whose games could be seen
across america.
now, wor is nationwide out of beautiful secaucus, but not all mets games
are on wor.  wgn chicago and wsbk boston are two other superstations
(at least, they are on the east coast).  i don't know how many
cubs/sox/sox games they show.
--hymie                                                     hymowitz@cs.jhu.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll be mellow when I'm dead.                           --''Weird'' Al Yankovic
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You get your mellow, laid back attitude from Sonny the Cuckoo Bird.
--Josh, about me
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kkeach@pomona.claremont.edu
Subject: Re: SUPER TOUGH Baseball Trivia
Reply-To: kkeach@pomona.claremont.edu
Organization: Pomona College
Lines: 37
In article <1993Apr17.015908.10416@ncar.ucar.edu>, amj@rsf.atd.ucar.edu (Anthony Michael Jivoin) writes:
>In the Bruce Springsteen video "Glory Days", from the Born
>in the USA album, they show two quick shots of a baseball game
>on television in the bar Bruce and the E-Street band are playing.
>
>Name the teams?
>
>Which Stadium?
>
>Who is the pitcher?
>
>What two batters go down swinging?
>
>Also at the end of the video Bruce is throwing at a wooden
>"strike zone" and his last pitch a young boy lines a base
>hit into center. As Bruce and the kid walk of the field the
>kid asks him how he did today.
>
>Bruce mentions the team he was playing and that a certain
>player got him in the bottom of the ninth.
>
>Name the player and the team!
sandiego and graig nettles
>
>If anyone gets these I'll be impressed.
>
>Anthony M. Jivoin
>National Center for Atmospheric Research
>RSF/ATD - FL1
>P.O. Box 3000
>Boulder, CO 80307
From: jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez)
Subject: MLB Standings and Scores for Sat., Apr. 17th, 1993
Organization: JTC Enterprises Sports Division (Major League Baseball Dept.)
Lines: 73
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu
Keywords: mlb, 04.17
MLB Standings and Scores for Satruday, April 17th, 1993
(including yesterday's games)
NATIONAL WEST	      Won  Lost   Pct.    GB   Last 10  Streak    Home   Road
San Francisco Giants   07   04    .636    --     6-4     Won 2   04-01  03-03
Houston Astros         06   04    .600   0.5     6-4     Won 1   01-03  05-01
Atlanta Braves         06   06    .500   1.5     5-5    Lost 3   04-03  03-02
Los Angeles Dodgers    04   07    .364   3.0     4-6     Won 1   01-03  03-04
Colorado Rockies       03   06    .333   3.0     3-6    Lost 1   03-03  00-03
San Diego Padres       03   07    .300   3.5     3-7     Won 1   01-04  02-03
Cincinnati Reds        02   08    .200   4.5     2-8    Lost 4   01-03  01-05
NATIONAL EAST
Philadelphia Phillies  08   02    .800    --     8-2    Lost 1   05-01  03-01
Pittsburgh Pirates     07   03    .700   1.0     7-3    Lost 1   03-02  04-01
St. Louis Cardinals    07   03    .700   1.0     7-3    Lost 1   04-02  03-01
New York Mets          05   04    .556   2.5     5-4     Won 1   02-03  03-01
Chicago Cubs           05   05    .500   3.0     5-5     Won 2   02-02  03-03
Montreal Expos         05   05    .500   3.0     5-5     Won 2   02-02  03-03
Florida Marlins        03   07    .300   5.0     3-7    Lost 1   02-04  01-03
AMERICAN WEST         Won  Lost   Pct.    GB   Last 10  Streak    Home   Road
Texas Rangers          06   03    .667    --     6-3    Lost 2   04-02  02-01
California Angels      05   03    .625   0.5     5-3    Lost 1   03-02  02-01
Chicago White Sox      05   04    .556   1.0     5-4     Won 2   02-03  03-01
Minnesota Twins        05   04    .556   1.0     5-4     Won 1   02-02  03-02
Oakland Athletics      04   04    .500   1.5     4-4    Lost 2   04-02  00-02
Seattle Mariners       04   05    .444   2.0     4-5    Lost 2   03-02  01-03
Kansas City Royals     02   08    .200   4.5     2-8    Lost 1   01-05  01-03
AMERICAN EAST
Boston Red Sox         07   03    .700    --     7-3    Lost 1   03-01  04-02
New York Yankees       06   04    .600   1.0     6-4     Won 1   03-01  03-03
Detroit Tigers         05   04    .556   1.5     5-4     Won 3   03-00  02-04
Toronto Blue Jays      05   04    .556   1.5     5-4    Lost 1   04-02  01-02
Cleveland Indians      04   06    .400   3.0     4-6     Won 1   03-01  01-05
Baltimore Orioles      03   06    .333   3.5     3-6     Won 2   01-02  02-04
Milwaukee Brewers      02   05    .286   3.5     2-5    Lost 4   00-02  02-03
YESTERDAY'S SCORES
(IDLE teams listed in alphabetical order)
NATIONAL LEAGUE				AMERICAN LEAGUE
New York Mets		3		Chicago White Sox	9
Cincinnati Reds		1		Boston Red Sox		4
Florida Marlins		3		California Angels	1
Houston Astros		9		Baltimore Orioles	4
Philadelphia Phillies	1		Kansas City Royals	3
Chicago Cubs		3		Minnesota Twins		4 (10)
Colorado Rockies	2		Seattle Mariners	0
Montreal Expos		3		Detroit Tigers		5
Pittsburgh Pirates	4		Toronto Blue Jays	1
Los Angeles Dodgers	7		Cleveland Indians      13
Atlanta Braves		0		Texas Rangers		3
San Francisco Giants	1		New York Yankees	5
St. Louis Cardinals	1		Oakland Athletics     PPD
San Diego Padres	5		Milwaukee Brewers    RAIN
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Hernandez          |    RAMS  | |    /.\  ******* _|_|_  / |   LAKERS
jtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU  |   KINGS  | |__ |   | DODGERS _|_|_  | |   RAIDERS
jtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU  |  ANGELS  |____||_|_| *******  | |  |___|  CLIPPERS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Originator: news@nimaster
Nntp-Posting-Host: crux.princeton.edu
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Lines: 16
In article <1993Apr16.200100.23703@scott.skidmore.edu> jrogoff@scott.skidmore.edu (jay rogoff) writes:
>There is a book that you can find in sale catalogues occasionally
>called _Jewish Baseball Stars_, and baseball mavin Peter Bjarkman has
>compiled a pretty definitive list of Jewish ballplayers in the bigs.
I wish I hadn't sold my copy of Jewish Baseball Stars.  It's a Short Shelf
(i.e., the one on top of the toilet tank) Special.  The writing in that
books is so astonishingly awful -- every sportswriting cliche taken to
the nth degree and then mangled -- that it's funny.
Rusinow is the author, I think.
Roger
Organization: Penn State University
From: <WJS112@psuvm.psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Phills vs Pirates
<C5LCop.4Fv@boi.hp.com> <121055@netnews.upenn.edu>
<1993Apr17.132013.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>
Lines: 17
I hate to be the burden of bad news, but I think I will this time!  =)
The Phillies usually play at either 7:05 P.M. or 7:35 P.M. Eastern Time for
weekdays.  On Sundays the time is usually 1:35 P.M. Eastern Time.
Boise is in Idaho.  Idaho is in part of the Mountain Time Zone and in part
of the Pacific Time Zone.  The times that were given were for Mountain Time
Zone starts.
Please check a map in case I am wrong.  But I am certain that Boise is in the
Mountain Time Zone.
Thanks for listening!
The Shep
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Jewish Broadcasters (was Jewish Baseball Players?)
Originator: news@nimaster
Nntp-Posting-Host: crux.princeton.edu
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Lines: 33
In article <C5Mu5z.HH8@unix.amherst.edu> ddsokol@unix.amherst.edu (D. DANIEL SOKOL) writes:
>
>Roger Lustig (roger@crux.Princeton.EDU) wrote:
>> In article <1993Apr16.220309.1@acad.drake.edu> sbp002@acad.drake.edu writes:
>> >In article <C5L9zs.44n@world.std.com>, Eastgate@world.std.com (Mark Bernstein) writes:
>> >> For that matter, how many Gentleman of The Press Box have been Jewish? The
>> >> only Jewish sportscaster that comes to mind is Steve Williams (?), who had
>> >> a Phillies show on KYW in Philadelphia in the 80s.
>> >Howard Cosell is one who comes to mind.
>> Gee, d'ya think Len Berman's Jewish?
>
>How about Steve Stone of WGN who does the Cubs?
We already got him under Pitchers, Overrated, Jewish.
>or Tony Korhiezer and Shirly Povich (Maury's dad) of the Washington Post?
Probably.  Is SHirley P still alive?  Just wondering.
Roger
>-Danny
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
From: prg@mgweed!mgwhiz.att.com (Phil Gunsul)
Subject: Re: Let's Talk Phillies
Organization: AT&T Information Systems
Lines: 33
In article <1993Apr16.060540.27397@adobe.com>, snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
| In article <1993Apr15.232551.14817@leland.Stanford.EDU> eechen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Emery Ethan Chen) writes:
| >One phrase for you....&%#! YOU!!!!
| >Thanks.
|
| Perhaps it's time to start rec.sport.baseball.graffiti, where the kiddies
| can go yell taunts and insults at each other and leave the rest of us in
| peace.
|
| Sherri Nichols
| snichols@adobe.com
Well Sherri, I'd agree with you except that most 'kiddies' have more sense than
to spew their obscenities in front of a group of adults..
I try to edit this newsgroup and feed it to one of the local elementary schools,
they have a group of students that just love baseball and are learning to use
computers, but I'm telling you, it's gotten to the point that I don't even edit
the files anymore, just read them and throw out the trash...  And thanks to all
you people that think it's wonderful to include a swear word or two in your
signature files, that's really nice...  I have to read the whole article and
then toss it out because of the .sig.  Don't get me wrong, I know all the words you
do, (and I've even made up some of my own!) or I wouldn't be able to edit them out ;^)
but this just doesn't seem to be the place, a public forum, to spew foul language,
sorry..
Thanks to all you people that keep in mind, there might be some decent, young
people, interested in baseball and computers reading this newsgroup..  They enjoy
your articles.
Phil
From: jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez)
Subject: Re: WHAT'S WITH ALL THESE SCORES?
Organization: JTC Enterprises Sports Division (Major League Baseball Dept.)
Lines: 38
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu
In article <1qp1m9INNfjg@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>In article <1993Apr17.050311.10098@news.yale.edu> (Sean Garrison) writes:
>} [Stuff about upated inning scores deleted.]
>at just that exact time to see the message. even results after the game
>is over are not necessary, thanks to Mr. Hernandez who posts daily
>standings and results here every day.
Am I supposed to take that as a compliment or a put down? Just wondering.
I do this as a service to the entire baseball world on USENET, especially
for those in the East Coast who can't get final scores for West Coast games
in their newspapers or late TV newscasts. This is helpful to fans in other
countries who either receive only weekly scores or updates by the week. Also,
many have requested for this kind of service previously but it was only
available through BBS's or some pay news services. By the way, mine is free
of charge and has no copyright restrictions.
>if you want to send updates and scores, set up a private mailing list
>and use that.
Remember I only post final scores and the updated standings once a day to the
rec.sport.baseball newsgroup. Other than that, everything is done through
private e-mail. Currently, there are 986 people on my mailing list that
branches off into other mailing lists available for many others. And the list
grows by an average of 35 people a day.
If people on USENET really don't want to see the postings I do to
rec.sport.baseball on a daily basis, please just let me know. If the response
is overwhelming against the posts, I won't do it anymore.
Thanks for your time.
Joseph Hernandez
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Hernandez          |    RAMS  | |    /.\  ******* _|_|_  / |   LAKERS
jtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU  |   KINGS  | |__ |   | DODGERS _|_|_  | |   RAIDERS
jtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU  |  ANGELS  |____||_|_| *******  | |  |___|  CLIPPERS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall)
Subject: Re: And America's Team is....But Why?
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 22
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
In article <kingoz.735066879@camelot> kingoz@camelot.bradley.edu (Orin Roth) writes:
>
>   Well, officially it's the Braves. At least up until they started winning
>   it was. Are they still, officially?
>   If so, why? and how did they receive this label?
Probably because everyone (that is, everyone who has cable) can watch
every Braves game. They are the only team that has all of its games
broadcast nationwide. And if you don't like your local team, or you don't
have a local team, the Braves can kind of become your local team because
you can watch them every day.
--I'm outta here like Vladimir!
-Alan
===========================================================================
| "What's this?  This is ice.  This is what happens to water when it gets |
|  too cold.  This?  This is Kent.  This is what happens to people when   |
|  they get too sexually frustrated."                                     |
|               -Val Kilmer, "Real Genius"                                |
===========================================================================
From: rachford@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Jeffery M Rachford)
Subject: Sandberg Update...Won't be long now!!!
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: na
Lines: 21
Hi all you Ryno fans (and those interested...)
Todays Chicago Tribune had this written in it today in regards to
Ryne Sandberg...
"Ryne Sandberg is ahead of schedule in his recovery from a broken
left hand and could be back in the lineup by May 1, manager Jim
Lefebvre said Friday.
Doctors cleared Sandberg to swing a padded bat at a ball in his
gloved hand.
'' I'm not surprised his rehabilitation has been moved up,'' said
Lefebvre.  '' He's a fast healer, and he doesn't like being on the
disabled list.  He's been running since he was hurt [March 5] and
is in the best shape of his life.  May 1 is his target date for
getting back in the lineup."
Hold on to your hats Cub fans...more later as information
presents itself.
Jeffery
From: idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu (Michael)
Subject: How to keep score like the officials?
Nntp-Posting-Host: crux1.cit.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
Lines: 15
Hello All,
I'd like to learn how to keep score when I watch ball
games using official scoring methods. Where can I get
scoresheets and instructions on how to use them?
I appreciate it,
Mike
========================== | Hofstadter's Law:  It always takes
Michael Wilson             | longer than you think, even if you
idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu | take into account Hofstadter's Law.
========================== |              -- Douglas Hofstadter
From: rachford@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Jeffery M Rachford)
Subject: Ryno correction
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: na
Lines: 13
I made a mistake on the posted article [been fighting food
poisoning for last 24 hours...]
The second paragraph should state the following...
"Doctors cleared Sandberg to swing a padded bat at a ball
on a tee and to catch a ball in his gloved hand."
Sorry for the error, didn't know it until after posting.
Jeffery
From: addison@leland.Stanford.EDU (Brett Rogers)
Subject: Re: Defensive Averages 1988-1992 -- Shortstop
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 12
In article <steph.735027990@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>>Smith, Ozzie           .742  .717  .697  .672  .664   0.701
>  The Wizard's 1988 is the second highest year ever.  Still very good,
>but I don't like the way his numbers have declined every year.  In a few
>years may be a defensive liability.
That's rich... Ozzie Smith a defensive liability...
Brett Rogers
addison@leland.stanford.edu
From: jplee@cymbal.calpoly.edu (JASON LEE)
Subject: Re: Surgery for Hal Morris
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 17
And then cjkuo@symantec.com (Jimmy Kuo) quoth:
>Does it strike anyone else how silly it is to impose a 3 game suspension on
>Morris?
>
>"Let's see...  I expect to be back June 15th.  How many games do we play
>before June 15th?  Take me off the DL 3 games before June 15th."
>
>It would be a lot more meaningful if the suspension went into effect some
>number of games after he came back.
Well, either way, the Reds have to play a man down for 3 days.
--
Jason Lee   jplee@oboe.calpoly.edu   jlee@cash.busfac.calpoly.edu    Giants
e ^ i*pi + 1 = 0    The most beautiful equation in mathematics.      Magic
For all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these:          Number:
"It might have been."            John Greenleaf Whittier        153
From: erics@netcom.com (Eric Smith)
Subject: Re: And America's Team is....But Why?
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 20
kingoz@camelot.bradley.edu (Orin Roth) writes:
>   Well, my guess is because America loves underdogs. Every year, no matter
>   the Cubs' talent or the predictions, they never (as close to never as
>   possible) win anything. Over the years, as the losing has mounted, America
>   has fallen in love with these perennial losers. The Cubs have more fans
>   in Chicago then some teams do worldwide. The Cubs have more fans
>   worldwide than most of the teams in their division combined.
>   An aura of excitement surrounds the Cubs at the beginning of the season
>   like no one else. (including the WS champs) It must be that Eternal Hope.
Actually I admired the spirit of the fan at the Cubs opener several years
ago who held up a sign that said "Wait Till Next Year".
-----
Eric Smith	    | "He threatened me! If it was a President of the
erics@netcom.com    |  United States you'd investigate! ... What's the
erics@infoserv.com  |  difference? I'm a Comedian of the United States!"
CI$: 70262,3610	    |		- Jerry Seinfeld
From: spork@camelot.bradley.edu (Richard Izzo)
Subject: Re: Royals
Nntp-Posting-Host: camelot.bradley.edu
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: na
Lines: 20
In <randall.734911319@moose> randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea) writes:
>The Royals are darkness.  They are the void of our time.
>When they play, shame descends upon the land like a cold front
>from Canada.   They are a humiliation to all who have lived and
>all who shall ever live.   They are utterly and completely
>doomed.
>Other than that, I guess they're OK.
Oh, lighten up.  What depresses me is that they might actually
finish last, which I believe hasn't happened since their second season in
1970.  Never mind that Gubizca is 0-2 with a 16.50 ERA, Gardner at 7.50,
our main recent acquisitions (Lind, McReynolds, Jose) are averaging .210,
David Cone is 0-2 (about how he was doing in KC before joining the Mets
several years ago), our hitting sucks, and our pitching has collapsed,
and we've won one game at home; they've won more games in their first ten
games than last year, and Brian McRae is actually batting over the
Mendoza line!
rich.
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Defensive Averages 1988-1992 -- Shortstop
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Lines: 13
In article <1993Apr17.200602.8229@leland.Stanford.EDU> addison@leland.Stanford.EDU (Brett Rogers) writes:
>In article <steph.735027990@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>>>Smith, Ozzie           .742  .717  .697  .672  .664   0.701
>>  The Wizard's 1988 is the second highest year ever.  Still very good,
>>but I don't like the way his numbers have declined every year.  In a few
>>years may be a defensive liability.
>
>That's rich... Ozzie Smith a defensive liability...
Why not?  Brooks Robinson is a defensive liability too, and Ted
Williams is a weak hitter.  Even great players decline as they age.
-Valentine
From: brock@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Bradley W. Brock)
Subject: Re: Tribune & Times
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Lines: 20
Reply-To: brock@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Bradley W. Brock)
NNTP-Posting-Host: g210b-1.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
In article <C5C9JA.AMB@unix.amherst.edu> ddsokol@unix.amherst.edu (D. DANIEL
SOKOL) writes:
> pjtier01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu wrote:
> >
> > Is the Chicago Tribune baseball coverage any good?  Does the New York Times
> > have daily coverage/boxscores?
>
> I don't know about the Tribune but the Times has daily coverage and
boxscores.
> Of course, they have special emphasis on the Yankees and Mets
Beware.  The original poster looks to be from Louisville, and chances are
Louisville gets the edition of the NYTimes that is printed in Chicago for the
MidWest.  This edition has boxscores only on Monday (and Sunday) and an
extremely skimpy sports section (few game summaries, mostly just color
stories).
--
Bradley W. Brock, Department of Mathematics
Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology  | "Resist not evil.... Love your enemies."
brock@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu       | --some Nazarene carpenter
From: thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Ozzie Smith a Defensive Liability?
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Lines: 18
In article <1993Apr17.200602.8229@leland.Stanford.EDU> addison@leland.Stanford.EDU (Brett Rogers) writes:
>In article <steph.735027990@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>>>Smith, Ozzie           .742  .717  .697  .672  .664   0.701
>>  The Wizard's 1988 is the second highest year ever.  Still very good,
>>but I don't like the way his numbers have declined every year.  In a few
>>years may be a defensive liability.
>
>That's rich... Ozzie Smith a defensive liability...
Why?  Do you expect him to remain the best shortstop in the game until
he reaches his seventy-third birthday, or something?  Why is it such a
strange concept that a forty-one-year-old Ozzie Smith might be a defensive
liability in 1996?
--
ted frank                 |
thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu |         I'm sorry, the card says "Moops."
the u of c law school     |
standard disclaimers      |
From: pjtier01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Phills vs  Pirates
Lines: 28
Nntp-Posting-Host: ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Organization: University of Louisville
>>>$ mlb -m pit phi
>>>           Monday,  5/10 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (5:35 pm)
>>>          Tuesday,  5/11 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (5:35 pm)
>>>        Wednesday,  5/12 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (5:35 pm)
>>>           Friday,  6/25 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:35 pm)
>>>         Saturday,  6/26 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:05 pm)
>>>           Sunday,  6/27 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (11:35 am)
>>>           Friday,  7/30 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (5:35 pm)
>>>         Saturday,  7/31 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (5:05 pm)
>>>           Sunday,  8/ 1 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (11:35 am)
>>>           Monday,  9/27 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:35 pm)
>>>          Tuesday,  9/28 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:35 pm)
>>>        Wednesday,  9/29 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:35 pm)
>>>         Thursday,  9/30 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:35 pm)
>>
>>
>> 	Are these times correct??
>>
>> 		They seem as if they are 2 hrs ahead of the usual tiems
>> for these two teams.
>>
>
> The origin of that first message was Boise, which is on Central time.
>
>                                                                    P. Tierney
Whoops!  I meant Mountain Time.
P. Tierney
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Defensive Averages 1988-1992 -- Shortstop
Originator: news@nimaster
Nntp-Posting-Host: crux.princeton.edu
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Lines: 25
In article <1993Apr17.200602.8229@leland.Stanford.EDU> addison@leland.Stanford.EDU (Brett Rogers) writes:
>In article <steph.735027990@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu> steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>>>Smith, Ozzie           .742  .717  .697  .672  .664   0.701
>>  The Wizard's 1988 is the second highest year ever.  Still very good,
>>but I don't like the way his numbers have declined every year.  In a few
>>years may be a defensive liability.
>That's rich... Ozzie Smith a defensive liability...
Why?  Do you suppose he's immune to the ravages of time?  He's 37.
In a few years he'll be 40.  He doesn't get to as many grounders as
he used to, and will get to fewer still as his legs go, as they do
on every human so far.
Remember: Willie Mays was a defensive liability at he end of his
career too.  Ditto Mickey Mantle.  Ditto just about everyone else who
played into their late 30's.
Roger
>Brett Rogers
>addison@leland.stanford.edu
>
>
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: WHAT'S WITH ALL THESE SCORES?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 42
NNTP-Posting-Host: electric-monk.mit.edu
In article <1qplh7$e2g@agate.berkeley.edu> jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez) writes:
} In article <1qp1m9INNfjg@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
} >In article <1993Apr17.050311.10098@news.yale.edu> (Sean Garrison) writes:
} >} [Stuff about upated inning scores deleted.]
} >at just that exact time to see the message. even results after the game
} >is over are not necessary, thanks to Mr. Hernandez who posts daily
} >standings and results here every day.
}
} Am I supposed to take that as a compliment or a put down? Just wondering.
it was meant entirely, 100%, as a compliment.
} I do this as a service to the entire baseball world on USENET, especially
} for those in the East Coast who can't get final scores for West Coast games
} in their newspapers or late TV newscasts. This is helpful to fans in other
} countries who either receive only weekly scores or updates by the week. Also,
} many have requested for this kind of service previously but it was only
} available through BBS's or some pay news services. By the way, mine is free
} of charge and has no copyright restrictions.
i was not trying to criticize your service at all.
in fact, i was trying to encourage others to use it.
i don't personally use it, but i'm sure others do, and that was my point in
posting--there is no need for individuals to duplicate, in an ad hoc fashion,
what you have already organized.
} >if you want to send updates and scores, set up a private mailing list
} >and use that.
}
} Remember I only post final scores and the updated standings once a day to the
} rec.sport.baseball newsgroup. Other than that, everything is done through
} private e-mail. Currently, there are 986 people on my mailing list that
} branches off into other mailing lists available for many others. And the list
} grows by an average of 35 people a day.
having one person, such as yourself, who does it, is a great idea.
having 100 do it is not. that's all.
keep up the good work, Joseph.
-*-
charles
From: pjtier01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: And America's Team is....But Why?
Lines: 18
Nntp-Posting-Host: ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Organization: University of Louisville
In article <kingoz.735066879@camelot>, kingoz@camelot.bradley.edu (Orin Roth) writes:
>    Well, officially it's the Braves. At least up until they started winning
>    it was. Are they still, officially?
>    If so, why? and how did they receive this label?
There is NO TEAM, repeat, NO TEAM, that is America's team.  This is a diverse
country with 26 MLB teams (+2 up north) and there is no one team that is
America's.  Who would the other teams belong to?
And how does it happen?  Well, teams receive this monicker through success
(Cowboys), national exposure (Cubs), or both (Braves).  It spreas aby
successful advertising campaigns.  Harry Caray, Ted Turner, amd other dupe
people into thinking that their representative teams are "hip" so that people
will watch them on TV and buy their products.  Arrogant local fans adapt the
monicker and think that "their" team is the one that America idolize
It comes down to dollars and egos.
P. Tierney
From: krattige@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kim Krattiger)
Subject: Re: Kevin Rogers
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Lines: 14
>/ hpcc01:rec.sport.baseball / pjtier01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu / 12:23 pm  Apr 14, 1993 /
>
>What's up with Kevin Rogers of San Francisco??  I thought he was slated to be
>the fifth starter, but he's only gotten a few relief appearences.  Are they
>going with four starters for now, or is someone else the fifth?
>
>                                                             Thanks,
>                                                                   P. Tierney
>----------
>
Giant's have a five man rotation of  John Burkett, Trevor Wilson,
Bill Swift, Jeff Brantley, and Bud Black/Dave Burba.  Black has
been put on the 15 day disables and Dave Burba will take his starts.
From: warped@cs.montana.edu (Doug Dolven)
Subject: Mel Hall
Organization: CS
Lines: 9
Has anyone heard anything about Mel Hall this season?  I'd heard he wasn't
with the Yankees any more.  What happened to him?
Doug Dolven
--
Doug Dolven
warped@cs.montana.edu
gdd7548@trex.oscs.montana.edu
From: tek2q@Virginia.EDU ("Todd Karlin")
Subject: Re: THE METS ARE RAPISTS!!
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 34
writes:
> In the new book about the Mets it talks about how they like to rape little
> girls before games.  Sick jerks!!!
>                                     -Max
Is this the book by Bob Klapisch (spelling?), "The
Worst Team Money Can Buy"?  If it is, I wouldn't give the book,
or anything in it any value whatsoever.  Klapisch wrote the
book to make money (obviously) and sensational literature is
going to sell a lot better than what he usually writes for the
papers.  I'm not calling him a liar, but if there was any proof
that a Met player had raped a little girl before a game (let
alone doing it on a regular basis) they would be in jail, not
Shea.
For those people who do not know what the press is like
in New York, it is probably more cut-throat than in just about
any other part of the U.S.  Keith Hernandez said it very well on
ESPN a couple of days ago, they would much rather mention a
clubhouse fight, than a two-run homer in the ninth to win a
game.  I do not read Klapisch's news columns regularly, but I
do know that he has been accused before as being an instigator
that enjoys (hopefully for only professional reasons) to drumb
up a news story, even if there isn't one there.  Now as far as
the confrontation with Bobby Bonilla a few days ago, I almost
totally blame Bonilla.  No matter what a member of the press
does, and no matter how much of a putrid individual he might
be, that does not give a ballplayer the right to threaten a
journalist.
Personally, I always thought that a beat writer that
always follows a club around should report the news, but not be
looking to degrade a team.  I don't know whether to blame
Klapisch, because that may be the only way to keep a job in New
York.
From: tek2q@Virginia.EDU ("Todd Karlin")
Subject: Re: Mel Hall
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 10
warped@cs.montana.edu  writes:
>
> Has anyone heard anything about Mel Hall this season?  I'd heard he wasn't
> with the Yankees any more.  What happened to him?
>
> 				Doug Dolven
Japan, I think.
From: mike@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Michael Chen)
Subject: Re: Mel Hall
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixf.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: mike@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Michael Chen)
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 17
In article <1993Apr17.212119.13901@coe.montana.edu> warped@cs.montana.edu (Doug Dolven) writes:
>
>Has anyone heard anything about Mel Hall this season?  I'd heard he wasn't
>with the Yankees any more.  What happened to him?
>
>				Doug Dolven
>--
>Doug Dolven
>warped@cs.montana.edu
>gdd7548@trex.oscs.montana.edu
Mel Hall signed with a Japanese team.
-Mike
/mike@columbia.edu
Subject: Re: Braves Pitching UpdateDIR
From: grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner)
Organization: /etc/organization
Nntp-Posting-Host: boucher.harvard.edu
In-reply-to: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU's message of Fri, 16 Apr 1993 16:19:23 GMT
Lines: 41
In article <C5L40C.9LC@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, David Robert Walker writes:
> In article <8994@blue.cis.pitt.edu> traven@pitt.edu (Neal Traven) writes:
>>One also has to separate offense into batting and baserunning, with the
>>split probably somewhere around 49.5% and 0.5%.
> I'd give baserunning a little more credit than that, maybe 45-5, or
> even 40-10. Give a team of Roberto Alomar and a team of John Oleruds
> identical batting stats (which wouldn't be that unreasonable), and
> even if you don't let Roberto steal a single base, they'll score a lot
> more than the Oleruds by going first-to-third more often. (No offense,
> Gordon).
I wouldn't give baserunning that much value.
The above effect is clear, but there are other effects as well.  If
Olerud hits a double, any runner on first will score; if Alomar legs an
extra base onto a hit in the gap, the runner on first may need to hold
at third.  Thus Olerud's doubles have more advancement value than
Alomar's.  (Of course, Alomar is more likely to score after hitting a
double.)
Another reason not to give too much extra value to baserunning is that
the runs created formulas work for very fast and very slow teams.  No
team in the 1950's ran much, but some teams certainly had faster players
than others.  Still, the current runs created formulas work just as well
in the 1950's for all teams.
Bill James gives the 1955-1958 Senators as an example.  They used Harmon
Killebrew regularly as a pinch runner, and in 1957, stole 13 bases with
38 times caught stealing.  Yet they scored slightly more runs than
predicted by Runs Created.
--
David Grabiner, grabiner@zariski.harvard.edu
"We are sorry, but the number you have dialed is imaginary."
"Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."
Disclaimer: I speak for no one and no one speaks for me.
From: rjh@allegra.att.com (Robert Holt)
Subject: Re: DAVE KINGMAN FOR THE HALL OF FAME
Keywords: Hall of Fame, Winfield, Kingman, Murray, Joe Lundy, :-)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ
Distribution: na
Lines: 14
In article <mssC5K4w5.GqE@netcom.com> mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) writes:
>
>I'm no Kingman fan.  Just thought I'd point out that he's the
>only player in history to have five three-HR games.  Joe Carter
>has four.  Eddie Murray three.  McCovey and Gehrig also three.
>Ruth, Mays, Foxx and Dawson two each.
Johnny Mize had six three-HR games, which is the current record.
--
+-----------------------+
|  Bob Holt             |
|  rjh@allegra.att.com  |
+-----------------------+
From:  (Sean Garrison)
Subject: Re: Fenway Gif
Nntp-Posting-Host: berkeley-kstar-node.net.yale.edu
Organization: Yale University
Lines: 11
I'd love to see a Shea Stadium gif.
-Sean
*******************************************************************************
"Behind the bag!"
- Vin Scully
*******************************************************************************
From:  (Sean Garrison)
Subject: Re: WHAT'S WITH ALL THESE SCORES?
Nntp-Posting-Host: berkeley-kstar-node.net.yale.edu
Organization: Yale University
Lines: 23
In article <1qplh7$e2g@agate.berkeley.edu>, jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu
(Joseph Hernandez) wrote:
> If people on USENET really don't want to see the postings I do to
> rec.sport.baseball on a daily basis, please just let me know. If the response
> is overwhelming against the posts, I won't do it anymore.
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Joseph Hernandez
Mr. Hernandez �-
I apologize for the misunderstanding.  I explained that I know that it
is essential for some fans to get scores here, for they cannot get them
elsewhere.  I have no problem with what you do, posting scores AFTER the
games have been completed.  However, like I said earlier, I don't think it
is a necessity to post scores during the middle of games, like some others
have come to practice.
- Sean
From: rjh@allegra.att.com (Robert Holt)
Subject: Re: ALL-TIME BEST PLAYERS
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ
Lines: 78
In article <1993Apr15.162313.154828@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> jsr2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOHN STEPHEN RANDOLPH) writes:
>In article <1993Apr13.115313.17986@bsu-ucs>, 00mbstultz@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes
>:
>>I've recently been working on project to determine the greatest
>>players at their respective postions.  My sources are Total Baseball,
>>James' Historical Abstract, The Ballplayers (biography), word of
>>mouth, and my own (biased) opinions...
>>
>>Feel free to comment, suggest, flame (whatever)...but I tried
>>to be as objective as possible, using statistical data not inlcuded
>>for time/convience's sake.  (I judged on Rel. BA, Adj OPS, Total Average,
>>fielding range/runs, total player rating (Total Baseball), stolen bases
>>(for curiosity's sake), TPR/150 g, and years played/MVP.
>>
>>3B
>> 1) Mike Schmidt
>> 2) Ed Matthews
One "t" in "Eddie Mathews"!
>> 3) George Brett
>> 4) Wade Boggs
>> 5) Ron Santo
>> 6) Brooks Robinson
>> 7) Frank Baker
>> 8) Darrell Evans
>> 9) Pie Traynor
>>10) Ray Dandridge
>>
>How can Brooks be # 6?  I think he would at least be ahead of Ron Santo.
>
Because a small advantage in fielding ability comes nowhere near
making up for the large difference in hitting.  Their average
seasons, using their combined average 656 (AB + BB) per 162 games:
Years  AB  H  R  2B 3B HR RBI TB  BB  AVG  OBP  SLG  OPS
Santo    14.10 577 160 81 26  5 24  94 268 79 .277 .366 .464 .830
Robinson 17.55 607 162 70 27  4 15  77 243 49 .267 .325 .401 .726
Fielding, we have, per 162 games at third,
Years   P    A   DP   E   PCT
Santo    13.15  149  348  30  24  .954
Robinson 17.72  152  350  35  15  .971
Even if Robinson's extra 3 putouts, 2 assists, and 5 DPs are taken to mean
he was responsible for 10 more outs in the field, that doesn't make up
for the extra 28 outs he made at the plate, not to mention the fewer
total bases.  The difference of .104 in OPS should be decreased by about
.025 to account for Wrigley, but a .079 difference is still considerable.
The Thorn & Palmer ratings are
Adjusted      Adjusted    Stolen   Fielding  Total
Production  Batting Runs Base Runs   Runs    Rating
Santo         123          284        -14       137      41.7
Robinson      105           52         -5       151      19.8 (26.3)
Usual disclaimers about T&P's FR apply, but they really shouldn't be
way off the mark in this comparison.  At least it's better than fielding
percentage: Carney Lansford has a .966 , 10th best all-time, but -225 FR,
dead last of all time.  Also, since this total rating compares players
to league average instead of replacement level, Robinson should be
awarded an extra 6.5 or so for playing 653 more games.  He had a great
career, but I would prefer Santo's plus 4 years of a replacement level 3Bman.
But I would knock Traynor off the list and replace him by Stan Hack.
That's a similar story, Hack's far better hitting outweighs Traynor's
superior fielding.  Graig Nettles and Buddy Bell would also be better
choices (IMHO of course, though some recent net discussion supports
this point of view.)
>
>>CF
>> 7) Andre Dawson
Shouldn't that be right field?
--
+-----------------------+
|  Bob Holt             |
|  rjh@allegra.att.com  |
+-----------------------+
From: gspira@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Spira)
Subject: Re: Braves Pitching UpdateDIR
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Lines: 28
grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner) writes:
>In article <C5L40C.9LC@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, David Robert Walker writes:
>> In article <8994@blue.cis.pitt.edu> traven@pitt.edu (Neal Traven) writes:
>>>One also has to separate offense into batting and baserunning, with the
>>>split probably somewhere around 49.5% and 0.5%.
>> I'd give baserunning a little more credit than that, maybe 45-5, or
>> even 40-10. Give a team of Roberto Alomar and a team of John Oleruds
>> identical batting stats (which wouldn't be that unreasonable), and
>> even if you don't let Roberto steal a single base, they'll score a lot
>> more than the Oleruds by going first-to-third more often. (No offense,
>> Gordon).
>I wouldn't give baserunning that much value.
I meant to comment on this at the time.
There's just no way baserunning could be that important - if it was,
runs created wouldn't be nearly as accurate as it is.
Runs Created is usually about 90-95% accurate on a team level, and
there's a lot more than baserunning that has to account for the
remaining percent.
Greg
From: steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Hits Stolen -- Second Base 1992
Summary: Stolen Hits for all second basemen
Keywords: second defense
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Lines: 117
Disclaimer -- This is for fun.
In my computerized baseball game, I keep track of a category called
"stolen hits", defined as a play made that "an average fielder would not
make with average effort."  Using the 1992 Defensive Averages posted
by Sherri Nichols (Thanks Sherri!), I've figured out some defensive stats
for the second basemen. Hits Stolen have been redefined as "Plays Kurt
Stillwell would not have made."
OK, I realize that's unfair.  Kurt's probably the victim of pitching staff,
fluke shots, and a monster park factor.  But let's put it this way:  If we
replaced every second baseman in the NL with someone with Kurt's 57.6% out
making ability, how many extra hits would go by?
To try and correlate it to reality a little more, I've calculated Net
Hits Stolen, based on the number of outs made compared to what a league
average fielder would make.  By the same method I've calculated Net Double
Plays, and Net Extra Bases (doubles and triples let by).
Finally, I throw all this into a a formula I call Defensive Contribution, or
DCON :->.  Basically, it represents the defensive contribution of a player.
I add this number to OPS to get DOPS (Defense + Onbase Plus Slug), which
should represent the player's total contribution to the team.  So don't
take it too seriously.  The formula for DCON appears at the end of this
article.
The short version -- definition of terms
HS -- Hits Stolen -- Extra outs compared to Kurt Stillwell
NHS -- Net Hits Stolen -- Extra outs compared to average fielder
NDP -- Net Double Plays -- Extra double plays turned compared to avg fielder
NEB -- Net Extra Bases --  Extra bases prevented compared to avg. fielder
DCON -- Defensive Contribution -- bases and hits prevented, as a rate.
DOPS -- DCON + OPS -- quick & dirty measure of player's total contribution.
National League
name            HS   NHS   NDP   NEB   DCON    DOPS
Alicea, L.      50    21    2    -1    .160    .865
Sandberg, R.   108    42    1     1    .134   1.015
Thompson, R.    65    20    5    -1    .104    .852
Lind, J.        66     8   -2     1    .027    .571
Doran, B.       31    -1    4     0    .014    .705
DeShields, D.   51     1   -2     1   -.002    .755
Harris, L.      25    -4    0     1   -.019    .602
Lemke, M.       43    -1   -5    -5   -.038    .573
Morandini, M.   37    -9   -6     0   -.069    .580
Randolph, W.    13   -16    3    -1   -.088    .582
Biggio, C.      34   -26   -4     0   -.091    .656
Stillwell, K.    0   -43   -3    -1   -.236    .336
Ordered by DOPS
1.015 Sandberg
.865 Alicea
.852 Thompson
.755 DeShields
.705 Doran
.678 *NL Average*
.656 Biggio
.602 Harris
.582 Randolph
.580 Morandini
.573 Lemke
.571 Lind
.336 Stillwell
American League
---------------
name            HS   NHS   NDP   NEB   DCON    DOPS
Fletcher, S.    59    18    5     1    .116    .811
Reed, J.        83    17    3     1    .071    .708
Ripken, B.      56     9   -1    -1    .044    .631
Baerga, C.      67     0   10     0    .029    .838
Blankenship, L. 34     2    2     1    .023    .757
Miller, K.      34    -4    1    -1   -.016    .725
Alomar, R.      62     4   -9    -2   -.020    .812
Knoblauch, C.   50   -13    7    -3   -.024    .718
Bordick, M.     37    -4   -2    -1   -.025    .704
Kelly, P.       42    -1   -5    -1   -.039    .636
Whitaker, L.    40    -8   -1    -2   -.041    .806
Reynolds, H.    47    -6   -5     1   -.043    .603
Sax, S.         56    -6   -9    -1   -.052    .555
Sojo, L.        28   -11   -3     0   -.075    .602
Order by DOPS
.838 Baerga
.812 Alomar
.811 Fletcher
.806 Whitaker
.757 Blankenship
.725 Miller
.718 Knoblauch
.708 Reed
.704 Bordick
.691 *AL Average*
.636 Kelly
.631 Ripken
.603 Reynolds
.602 Sojo
.555 Sax
More discussion --
DCON formula:  ((NHS + NDP)/PA) + ((NHS + NDP + NEB)/AB)
Why such a bizzare formula?  Basically, it's designed to be added into the
OPS, with the idea that "a run prevented is as important as a run scored".
The extra outs are factored into OBP, while the extra bases removed are
factored into SLG.  That's why I used PA and AB as the divisors.
For more discussion see the post on Hits Stolen -- First Base 1992
--
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic
"It is considered good to look wise, especially when not
overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball
From: steven@advtech.uswest.com ( Steve Novak)
Subject: Re: Old Predictions to laugh at...
Nntp-Posting-Host: jaynes.advtech.uswest.com
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Lines: 25
> = ( Steve Novak) writes:
>> = (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>>> = (Robert C Hite) writes:
>>>DEAD WRONG!  Last time I checked, Jim Fregosi was still managing the
>>>Phillies, and doing quite a fine job thank you...best record in
>>>baseball at 8-1
>>Look, asshole, I got him confused with somebody else.  I didn't flame
>>you, and I would appreciate it if you extended me the same courtesy.
>What _is_ your problem?  Hite's post wasn't a flame.  It was a
>correction of *your* error.
That last was me, Steve Novak.  I've since read the entire original
posting by Hite.
Mr. Fischer was actually restrained.  Let Mr. Hite hope he never makes
some similar, tiny mistake.
--
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Steve Novak |    |"Ban the Bomb!"  "Ban the POPE!!"|
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
steven@advtech.USWest.Com
From: sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall)
Subject: Re: Mel Hall
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 26
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
In article <1993Apr17.212119.13901@coe.montana.edu> warped@cs.montana.edu (Doug Dolven) writes:
>
>Has anyone heard anything about Mel Hall this season?  I'd heard he wasn't
>with the Yankees any more.  What happened to him?
>
>				Doug Dolven
Mel is alive and well and playing in Japan. (The Yanks let him go because
he was asking for too much money, and because they thought that they were
going to get Barry Bonds, making Hall obsolete. Oopsie! Well, at least
they got O'Neill to replace the Mel-man).
--I'm outta here like Vladimir!
-Alan
============================================================================
|    (Scene from "Real Genius" where Val Kilmer is trying to pick up a     |
|     gorgeous blonde)							   |
|		Val: So, if there's anything I can do for you, or, more    |
|		     to the point, to you, you just let me know.	   |
|		Blonde: Can you hammer a six-inch spike through a board    |
|			with your penis?				   |
|		Val: Not right now, no.					   |
|		Blonde:	A girl's gotta have her standards (she walks away) |
============================================================================
From: Howard_Wong@mindlink.bc.ca (Howard Wong)
Subject: Jack Morris
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Lines: 9
As of today, April 17, Jack Morris has lost his first three starts.
However, the Jays are doing well without him and injured Dave Stuart.
This is a credit to the rest of the pitching staff.
Has Jack lost a bit of his edge? What is the worst start Jack Morris has had?
From: mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer)
Subject: Re: Dodgers Take 2 Straight From Pirates
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Lines: 25
In article <1qqob2INNqev@mizar.usc.edu> pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger) writes:
>Davis and Strawberry attributed their turn arounds to Reggie Smith,
>the Dodger batting coach who flew in from Florida three days
>ago and gave them a pep talk and some instruction.  Davis was
>4-5 yesterday and had a couple more hits today.  Strawberry
>had two hits yesterday and I believe he had two more today, with
>two home runs.
Foolish me.  And here I thought it had something to do with the
fact that they were hitting against Wakefield, who had no "kncukle"
to his ball that day, and Otto, who has no stuff.  I wonder if
Reggie gave the same pep talk and instruction to the rest of the
lineup, who also suddenly came alive those two games.
--	The Beastmaster
--
Mark Singer
mss@netcom.com
From: rlm7638@tamsun.tamu.edu (Jack McKinney)
Subject: Official Rules of Baseball ISBN
Organization: Mistress Barbara's Dungeon Palace
Lines: 12
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamsun.tamu.edu
I am trying to get a copy of the _official_ rules of baseball.
Someone once sent me the ISBN number of it, but I have since lost it.
Can anyone give me this information, or tell me where I can find the
book?  None of my local bookstores have it.
+---------------------------------------------------+------------------------+
| "I'm walking home from school, and I'm watching   | Jack McKinney          |
|  some men building a new house, and the guy ham-  | jmckinney@tamu.edu     |
|  mering on the roof calls me a paranoid little    +------------------------+
|  weirdo....                  in Morse code."      |       This space       |
|                       -Emo Philips                |        for rent        |
+---------------------------------------------------+------------------------+
From: r4938585@joplin.biosci.arizona.edu (Doug Roberts)
Subject: Re: NL vs. AL?
Organization: University of Arizona, Biotechnology, Tucson
Lines: 2
NNTP-Posting-Host: joplin.biosci.arizona.edu
Keywords: Game length
Doug Roberts - Ken Hill for NL MVP!!
Let's go 'Spos
From: fisherg@egr.msu.edu (fisher greg)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: Michigan State University, College of Engineering
Lines: 16
NNTP-Posting-Host: eecae.ee.msu.edu
In article <1993Apr16.172502.21766@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>In article <1993Apr16.122649.22938@husc3.harvard.edu> fry@zariski.harvard.edu (David Fry) writes:
>
>>Once, on Jeopardy, the category was "Jewish Sports Heros," believe it
>>or not.  The answer was, "This pitcher had four no-hitters with the
>>Dodgers in the 60s."  The contestant said, "Who is Hank Aaron?" Alex
>>Trebek said something like, "I don't think Hank Aaron was a pitcher."
>
>Well, it *is* a Jewish name...
>
>8-)
>
>Roger
That's right.  Remember Hank Greenberg??!!
From: gwittt@alleg.edu (Tom Gwitt)
Subject: Re: Mel Hall
Organization: Allegheny College
Lines: 11
In article <1993Apr17.212119.13901@coe.montana.edu> warped@cs.montana.edu
(Doug Dolven) writes:
>
> Has anyone heard anything about Mel Hall this season?  I'd heard he
wasn't
> with the Yankees any more.  What happened to him?
>
He is in Japan playing baseball.
--
Tom Gwitt     gwittt@alleg.edu
From: r4938585@joplin.biosci.arizona.edu (Doug Roberts)
Subject: Re: Sandberg, Runs, RBIs (was: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series)
Organization: University of Arizona, Biotechnology, Tucson
Lines: 17
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: joplin.biosci.arizona.edu
In article <C5JqBy.M7A@news.rich.bnr.ca> bratt@crchh7a9.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (John Bratt) writes:
>RBIs and Runs scored are the two most important offensive statistics.  You
>can talk about OBP and SLG% all you want, but the fact remains:
>
>	The team that scores more runs wins the game!
>	---------------------------------------------
>Flame Away
>-- John Bratt
OK, you asked for it!
I guess that doesn't bode well for the Cubs then does it?
Doug Roberts - "Willing to trade Frank Bolick for a bag of used baseballs!"
- "Let's go Expos!"
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc)
Subject: Re: And America's Team is....But Why?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 43
kingoz@camelot.bradley.edu (Orin Roth) writes:
>   Well, officially it's the Braves. At least up until they started winning
>   it was. Are they still, officially?
>   If so, why? and how did they receive this label?
>
>   Unoffically, but without a doubt, America's Team is the Cubs. Why?
>   Well, my guess is because America loves underdogs. Every year, no matter
>   the Cubs' talent or the predictions, they never (as close to never as
>   possible) win anything. Over the years, as the losing has mounted, America
>   has fallen in love with these perennial losers. The Cubs have more fans
>   in Chicago then some teams do worldwide. The Cubs have more fans
>   worldwide than most of the teams in their division combined.
>   An aura of excitement surrounds the Cubs at the beginning of the season
>   like no one else. (including the WS champs) It must be that Eternal Hope.
>   "this is the year. they've got the talent. they're off to a good start.
>    they've got the pitching (or hitting, or whatever their strong point is
>    at the time)." It's that inevitability that the Cubs WILL eventually
>    win the WS again. When? Only God knows. Since it's been so long, it
>   could come at any time, or it could be another 85 years. But until they
>   do finally win, and start winning consistently, The Cubs will remain
>   America's Lovable Underdogs. The Cubs are...AMERICA'S TEAM.
>   Orin.
>   Bradley U>
The defenition of the Underdog is a team that has no talent and comes
out of nowhere to contend.  The '69 Mets and '89 Orioles are prime examples,
not the Cubs.  I root for the Cubs, because I feel sorry for them, but
basically they are dogs.  The Pirates today are a great example of an underdog.
If the Rockies and Marlins compete, they will be underdogs.  The North Stars
trip to the Stanley Cup finals was a good example of an underdog's journey.
The Cubs have a good team this year, and play in a weak division, they are much
less than America's Team.
>
>--
>I'm really a jester in disguise!
--
Chintan Amin <The University of Illinois UrbanaChampaign> mail: llama@uiuc.edu
******************************Neil Peart, (c)1981*****************************
*"Quick to judge, Quick to Anger, Slow to understand, Ignorance and Prejudice*
*And********Fear********Walk********************Hand*********in*********Hand"*
From: bbf2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (BENJAMIN BROOKER FRADKIN)
Subject: Tigers pound Mariners!!!!!!!
Organization: Lehigh University
Lines: 7
Were they palying football or baseball in Detroit on Saturday?  From looking
at the school, some people may think it was football.  Between two games this
week, the Tigers scored 40 runs!!!!  The offense can carry them, I hope the
pitching will hold out.  I was at Camden Yards yesterday, everytime I looked
up the score was getting higher.  What a great site it was to see the Tigers
kicking butt while enjoying a game at Camden Yards.  GO TIGERS AND GO TONY
PHILLIPS!!!!!!!!
From: random@access.digex.com (Random)
Subject: Scott Erickson
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 3
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.net
Does anyone have the scoop on Scot Erickson?  How long is he going to be
out for?
From: steinman@me.utoronto.ca (David Steinman)
Subject: Re: And America's Team is....But Why?
Organization: UofT Mechanical Engineering
Lines: 15
cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>	The defenition of the Underdog is a team that has no talent and comes
>out of nowhere to contend.  The '69 Mets and '89 Orioles are prime examples,
>not the Cubs.
Sorry, but it is *virtually* impossible to win a division with "no talent"
over 162 games.
I would amend your definition to:
underdog:  a team expected to lose, but which wins thanks to underestimated
talent.
--
Dave!
From: jxu@black.clarku.edu (Dark Wing Duck!!)
Subject: Bosox win again! (the team record is 9-3)
Organization: Clark University (Worcester, MA)
Lines: 8
Today, Frank Viola and rest of pitcher staff of Boston Red Sox shutout Chicago
White Sox 4-0.  It is Red Sox 9th win of this season.
So far, Red Sox won all the games Roger and Frank V. pitched (6-0) and 3-3
when other three starters were pitching.  Tomorrow, Dopson will pitch again
(have a good first start and rocky second start).  I wonder that Bosox can
play over 500 ball without Roger and Frank V.
From: bbs-comarow@jwt.oau.org (Bob Comarow)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Reply-To: bbs-comarow@jwt.oau.org
Organization: The Matrix
Lines: 4
Dave Kingman is Jewish
bob
comarow@eisner.decus.org
From: jdl6@po.CWRU.Edu (Justin D. Lowe)
Subject: Re: And America's Team is....But Why?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 35
Reply-To: jdl6@po.CWRU.Edu (Justin D. Lowe)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc8.ins.cwru.edu
In a previous article, steinman@me.utoronto.ca (David Steinman) says:
>cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>
>>	The defenition of the Underdog is a team that has no talent and comes
>>out of nowhere to contend.  The '69 Mets and '89 Orioles are prime examples,
>>not the Cubs.
>
>Sorry, but it is *virtually* impossible to win a division with "no talent"
>over 162 games.
>
>I would amend your definition to:
>
>underdog:  a team expected to lose, but which wins thanks to underestimated
>           talent.
>--
>Dave!
>
OK, the Mets and O's are good examples, but what about the '90 Reds?  Do you
really think that anyone expected them to sweep the A's?  I know people who
didn't even think they'd win a game, let alone win the Series.  We proved
them wrong, though, didn't we?
As for this year, ignore their record now.  They've had a rocky start, and
that has nothing to do with Colorado.  They shall rise again.  The hunt for
a Reds' October continues. (with all due respect to WLW)  Bye.
--
MICHELSON- - - - -1993 SPRING OLYMPICS CHAMPIONS
Road Rally, 5-legged Race, Rope Pull, Snarf, Penny Wars, Banner, Spirit Cheer.
The Michelson Menace rides again!
(Don't you just love that intense nationalistic feeling in a residence hall?)
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Subject: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Lines: 19
Distribution: na
Reply-To: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
NNTP-Posting-Host: g215a-1.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
In article <C5HpCv.4HL@andy.bgsu.edu> klopfens@andy.bgsu.edu (Bruce
Klopfenstein) writes:
> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
> > In article <1993Apr13.195301.22652@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
> > } Guess which line is which:
> > } 	BA	OBP	SLG	AB	H	2B	3B	HR	BB
> > } X	.310	.405	.427	571	177	27	8	8	87
> > } Y	.312	.354	.455	657	205	32	1	20	35
> I just love how the Alomar fans left RBIs off this list.  Give me a break!
A little delayed, but in the interests of fairness (stats from Elias);
BA    OBP   SLG  R  HR RBI RNI  %   outs
Alomar .310  .405  .427 105  8  76 264 20.5 419
Baerga .312  .354  .455  92 20 105 316 21.2 480
So we see that Baerga has a large advantage in RBI (runs batted in), RNI
(runners not driven in) and outs.
john rickert	rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
From: davewood@bruno.cs.colorado.edu (David Rex Wood)
Subject: Baseball spreads?
Nntp-Posting-Host: bruno.cs.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 8
How does one read the betting spreads for baseball?  They tend to be something
like 8-9 which means it must not be runs!
Thanks.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: davewood@bruno.cs.colorado.edu (David Rex Wood)
Subject: Rockies need some relief
Nntp-Posting-Host: bruno.cs.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 13
Once again, the Rockies bullpen fell apart.  Andy Ashby pitched six (somewhat
shaky) innings giving up just one run.  Then game the dreaded relief.  Three
picthers combined to give up 3 runs (one each I believe) in the 7th inning
and blew the save opportunity.  (Final was 4-2 vs Expos).
Despite their problems in the pen, I think the Rockies are a team that wont
be taken lightly.  Going into today's game, the had the league's leading
hitter and RBI man (Galarraga), two of the leaders in stolen bases (Young
and Cole) and increasingly strong starting pitching.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: davewood@bruno.cs.colorado.edu (David Rex Wood)
Subject: Re: Rockies need some relief
Nntp-Posting-Host: bruno.cs.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 14
In article <1993Apr18.225740.15978@colorado.edu> davewood@bruno.cs.colorado.edu (David Rex Wood) writes:
>shaky) innings giving up just one run.  Then game the dreaded relief.  Three
^^^^
>picthers combined to give up 3 runs (one each I believe) in the 7th inning
^^^^^^^^
>be taken lightly.  Going into today's game, the had the league's leading
^^^
Geez, can I type or what?
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Baseball spreads?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 9
NNTP-Posting-Host: marinara.mit.edu
In article <1993Apr18.225909.16116@colorado.edu> davewood@bruno.cs.colorado.edu (David Rex Wood) writes:
} How does one read the betting spreads for baseball?  They tend to be something
} like 8-9 which means it must not be runs!
that spread means you bet $5 on the underdog to win $8, or $9 on the
favorite to win $5.
-*-
charles
From: amj@rsf.atd.ucar.edu (Anthony Michael Jivoin)
Subject: Re: Bosox win again! (the team record is 9-3)
Organization: National Center for Atmospheric Research
Lines: 31
In article <jxu.735168686@black.clarku.edu>, jxu@black.clarku.edu (Dark Wing Duck!!) writes:
|> Today, Frank Viola and rest of pitcher staff of Boston Red Sox shutout Chicago
|> White Sox 4-0.  It is Red Sox 9th win of this season.
|>
|> So far, Red Sox won all the games Roger and Frank V. pitched (6-0) and 3-3
|> when other three starters were pitching.  Tomorrow, Dopson will pitch again
|> (have a good first start and rocky second start).  I wonder that Bosox can
|> play over 500 ball without Roger and Frank V.
|>
As long as the Yankees are in the same division the Red Sox will
play better than .500 baseball.
Or the Red Sox can hire former East German swimming coaches to
"train" them at the fine art of body "building". The Red Sox
can use Chinese women swimmers as a reference.
With the "HAWK", the Red Sox definitely have a chance for the
east this year. He brings class, work ethic and leadership to
the park each day. And he has a burning desire to play in the
World Series.
Future Hall-of-Famer, Andre Dawson will kick butt in Boston!
from Rockies country,
Anthony M. Jivoin
National Center for Atmospheric Research
RSF/ATD - FL1
P.O. Box 3000
Boulder, CO 80307
From: cac@owlnet.rice.edu (Christopher Andrew Campbell)
Subject: Re: Royals
Summary: never
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: na
Lines: 12
In article <spork.735077099@camelot> spork@camelot.bradley.edu (Richard Izzo) writes:
B.S. about darkness deleted.
>	Oh, lighten up.  What depresses me is that they might actually
>finish last, which I believe hasn't happened since their second season in
>1970.
nope The Royals are the only team in the majors that have not
finished in last place.    ^^^^    Of course this doesn't include
the marlins and the rockies but they have a good chance at
finishing last also.
>rich.
From: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
Subject: Re: Jack Morris
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 60
Reply-To: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu
In a previous article, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) says:
>In article <1qr05cINNpel@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca> stlouis@unixg.ubc.ca (Phill St. Louis) writes:
>>Jack Morris' starts have been like his playoff starts.  He has an ERA of
>>17.18 in his 3 starts.
>>
>>What does luck have to do with a 17.18 ERA?  He was lucky to get 21 wins
>>last year, but he had an ERA of 4.04 with a team that scored a lot of
>>runs.  I would be happy if he could still pitch with an ERA of 4.04, but
>>he seems to be suffering from a total callapse.
>
>Bad pitchers are more prone to this total collapse than good pitchers.
>They are closer to the chasm of mediocrity.  The smallest push and
>they completely lose their grip.
>
But good ones can collapse somewhat, then come back the next year.
Burleigh Grimes went from 20+ wins and an ERA of 3 or so in '24 to 13-19 and
an ERA around 4 in '25.  He pitched well for several more years.  Carlton
won 13 and lost 20 the year after his 27-10 record. (Source: Bill James
Historical Baseball Abstract.)
And let's not forget John Tudor, who started 1-5 and finished 21-6 in
1985.  He had a pretty bad ERA when you take Busch Stadium into account at
the start of the season.
>>He gave up early runs
>>in his '92 games and would get stronger as the game went on, thus giving
>>up few runs in the last going.  He stays in the game and gets the win.
>>How else would he have pitched so many innings?
>
>Yup.  He used to dig himself a hole, then get it together and stick in
>until the run support eventually came through.  This year he just
>hasn't gotten it together.
If I recall, he had a 4.50 ERA in the 1st half and a 3.50 ERA in the
2nd half of last year.
Hmmm, 21 runs in 11 innings.  Suppose he starts 30 more games, and winds
up w/200 innings pitched.  If he allows 4 runs a game in the next 189
innings, he'll have a 4.75 ERA or so at the end of the year. (I think I have
his totals right.) This is going to be hard to come back from.
>>Jack may be finished.  It is time to retire or be released, if he does
>>not return to his form from last year.
>
>His $5 million contract is an awful lot to eat!
My 1st hunch is that Morris is very gutsy, and that he may be pitching
through an injury and not telling anyone.  My 2nd guess is that he will be
banished to the bullpen the remainder of the season after a few more starts.
(Perhaps when Stewart comes off the DL?  Or will Danny Cox, who went 3 or 4
scoreless innings against the Tribe today, start for Morris?  He looks like
a really good one.  Gaston is scrambling to find starters, I'd imagine.
Luckily, the Jays have a very good offense.)
I don't think they would dare release him before the end of the year.
He'll just be replaced by Stewart or Cox.
--
Doug Fowler: dxf12@po.CWRU.edu  : Me, age 4 & now: "Mommys and Daddys & other
Ever wonder if, after Casey : relatives have to give lots of hugs & love
missed the 3rd strike in the poem: & support, 'cause Heaven is just a great
he ran to first and made it?     : big hug that lasts forever and ever!!!"
From: rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Subject: Reds snap 5-game losing streak: RedReport 4-18
Keywords: Finally
Nntp-Posting-Host: silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Lines: 136
Kevin Mitchell's sacrifice fly in the eighth off Brett Saberhagen plated
pitch runner Cesar Hernandez to give the Reds a 2-3 come-from-behind victory over
New York. Hernandez ran for pinch-hitter Cecil Espy, who got the inning started
with a solid single to right, moved to second on "Bob" Kelly's infield sneaker
down the third-base line, and to third on Jeff Branson's well-placed bunt--a
rare show of excellent execution by the recently hapless Reds offense.
Cincinnati trailed 2-0 after starter Tim Pugh blinked in the fifth.  He had only
given up one hit in the first four innings, a fourth-inning lead-off double
by Vince Coleman.  Coleman was left stranded at third by Bobby Bonilla after
Joe Orselak popped to short.  Orselak was pinch-hitting for Eddie Murray who
argued plate umpire Kellogg's inside strike by "drawing the line" (really, he
should know better than that).  Murray, and later manager Jeff Torborg ended up getting
tossed.
The Mets' fifth started with a Howard Johnson's first-pitch homer.  Pugh must
have been slightly shaken, as he was popped on the next pitch by Jeff Kent's
single, then a Ryan Thompson liner to left was (surprise) misplayed by Mitchell
and turned into a RBI triple. Catcher Hundley's grounder to the drawn-in Branson
failed to bring Thompson in, then the play of the game occured:
Saberhagen was due up, so Reds pitching coach Larry Rothschild met with the infield
to discuss the possibility of a suicide squeeze.  They called it perfectly:
Thompson was hung out to dry after Pugh's first-pitch pitch out and the threat ended.
(Isn't the NATIONAL LEAGUE great??)
The Reds picked up 2 runs in the seventh to knot up the game.  After Barry Larkin's
ground out, Mitchell, Chris Sabo, and Randy Milligan got back-to-back-to-back
singles--the third scoring Mitchell.  Reggie Sanders then plated Sabo with a long
fly to center.  A double by Oliver might have scored runner Dan Wilson, but
third base coach Dave Bristol threw up the stop sign too late--Wilson himself was
hung out to dry killing the Reds rally.
Rob Dibble came on in the ninth and pitched shakily.  With two outs and a runner
on second Bonilla came to the plate and all I could think of was the Sunday game
in late August last year when Bonilla's three-run dinger slapped a loss on
Dibble and spelled the beginning of the end for Cinci's season.  Bonilla ended
up walking, and HoJo flied out to left to give the Reds their first win in a
week, and earned Dibble his third save in as many opportunities.  The win went
to Steve Foster (1-2) who got in what must be an ego-boosting two perfect innings
work, striking out three.  Saberhagen (2-1) got the loss--though I'm a bit
surprised he even pitched in the eighth.  I'll take it, though.
The Reds are now 3-9, still the worst team in baseball with the Royals victory
today.  The Mets are 6-5.
The Line:
New York Mets
AB	R	H		K	BB	LO
-----------------------------------------------|----------------------------
Coleman lf		4	0	1		0	0	0
Fernandez ss		4	0	0		1	0	0
Murray 1b		1	0	0		0	0	0
Orselak ph/rf		3	0	1		0	0	0
Bonilla rf/1b		3	0	0		2	1	1
Johnson 3b		3	1	1		1	0	2
Kent 2b			3	1	1		1	0	0
Thompson cf		3	0	1		1	0	0
Hundley c		3	0	0		2	0	0
Saberhagen p		3	0	0		0	0	0
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Totals			30	2	5		8	1	3
HR-Johnson (off Pugh, leading off fifth, 0-0 pitch)
3b-Thompson (off Pugh, in fifth, 0 out, 1 RBI, picked-off)
2b-Coleman (off Pugh, in fourth, 0 out, 0 on, stranded at third)
RBI-Johnson, Thompson
Cincinnati Reds
AB	R	H		K	BB	LO
-----------------------------------------------|----------------------------
Kelly cf		4	0	1		0	0	0
Branson 2b		3	0	1		0	0	0
Larkin ss		3	0	0		0	1	0
Mitchell lf		3	1	1		0	0	0
Dibble p		0	0	0		0	0	0
Sabo 3b			4	1	1		1	0	2
Milligan 1b		3	0	3		0	0	0
Wilson pr/c		0	0	0		0	0	0
Sanders rf		2	0	0		0	0	1
Oliver c/1b		3	0	1		1	0	1
Pugh p			1	0	0		1	0	0
Roberts ph		1	0	0		1	0	0
Foster p		0	0	0		0	0	0
Espy ph 		1	0	1		0	0	0
Hernandez pr/lf	0	1	0		0	0	0
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Totals			28	3	9		4	1	5 (*)
(*) Oliver was stranded in the seventh after his double when Wilson was run down.
2b Oliver (off Saberhagen, 2 out, runner on first, stranded)
RBI-Milligan, Sanders, and Mitchell
Sac-Branson
SF-Sanders and Mitchell
IBB-Larkin
GDP-Larkin
New York	0  0  0    0  2  0    0  0  0    ---- 2-5-0
Cincinnati	0  0  0    0  0  0    2  1  x    ---- 3-9-0
Pitching
IP	R	ER	H	K	BB
NEW YORK
Saberhagen (L 2-1)	8	3	3	9	4	1
CINCINNATI
Pugh			6	2	2	4	4	0
Foster (W 1-2)		2	0	0	0	3	0
Dibble (S 3)		1	0	0	1	1	1
PB- Wilson
Ejected-Murray, Torborg
Umps-Kellogg/Relliford/Runge/DeMuth
Attendance 32,435
T- 2:23
Coming up:
The Reds travel to Pittsburgh for three then continue on into Chicago for
three.  Next game is Tuesday at 7:35, expected to pitch are Belcher (0-1)
vs. Tomlin (0-0).
RStimets
From: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
Subject: 1-dimensional teams (was Re: Royals final run total...
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 43
Reply-To: dxf12@po.CWRU.Edu (Douglas Fowler)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu
In a previous article, sweda@css.itd.umich.edu (Sean Sweda) says:
>
>I've been saying this for quite some time, but being absent from the
>net for a while I figured I'd stick my neck out a bit...
>
>The Royals will set the record for fewest runs scored by an AL
>team since the inception of the DH rule.  (p.s. any ideas what this is?)
>
>They will fall easily short of 600 runs, that's for damn sure.  I can't
>believe these media fools picking them to win the division (like our
>Tom Gage of the Detroit News claiming Herk Robinson is some kind of
>genius for the trades/aquisitions he's made)
Would you say the same thing about the Dodgers in '65 or '66?  True,
Cone is probably as good as Drysdale, and they have no Koufax, but still,
these teams were winning with home run leaders who had very bad totals, with
lots of low-scoring games, etc.  And they didn't use relievers, whereas
Jeff Montgomery is having a super season for them.
That being said, I still picked them 5th or so, but I think a superb
pitching team can win if they have enough hitting.  There's more of a
chance of that, I think, than of a team with tremendous hitting but no
pitching.  At least, to me.
I wonder, though - which one do you people think would do better - a team
with Johnson, Koufax in his prime, Seaver, Carlton, and Young, in no real
order, as the starters, with Sutter, Fingers, and Lyle in the bullpen, but
with a puny offense (assuming good defense, like Mazeroski, Maranville, etc.)
Or a team with poor pitching, but with an offense of Cobb, Carew, Ruth, Gehrig,
Mays, Schmidt, Wagner, and Bench - again,you pick the order.
I would postulate that the pitching one would be several games better by
seasons' end.  Even the best hitters can succeed only 2/5 of the time in
their best years, but a great pitcher can throw lots of shutouts - taking all
the players in their prime, they might throw 50 shutouts in a year.  And all
the offense would have to do is get 1 run across.
I wonder if someone with Stratomatic or something could plug such all-
time teams into a regular season, have it played, and report the results
I would love to see that.
--
Doug Fowler: dxf12@po.CWRU.edu  : Me, age 4 & now: "Mommys and Daddys & other
Ever wonder if, after Casey : relatives have to give lots of hugs & love
missed the 3rd strike in the poem: & support, 'cause Heaven is just a great
he ran to first and made it?     : big hug that lasts forever and ever!!!"
From: vince@sscl.uwo.ca
Subject: Re: Early BBDDD Returns?
Organization: Social Science Computing Laboratory
Nntp-Posting-Host: vaxi.sscl.uwo.ca
Lines: 11
In article <1993Apr16.073051.9160@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, st902415@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Adam Levin) writes:
> Just curious if anyone has started to standout early in the season in the
> BB DDD this year. ...
>
> A concerned fan of the BB DDD,
I am hoping to produce the first update of the BB DDD this week;
please send info about the most significant (longest, most critical,
etc.) home run that you have seen yet this season.
Vince.
From: C558172@mizzou1.missouri.edu
Subject: Re: And America's Team is....But Why?
Organization: University of Missouri
X-Posted-From: mizzou1.missouri.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu
Lines: 23
In article <kingoz.735066879@camelot>
kingoz@camelot.bradley.edu (Orin Roth) writes:
>
>   Well, officially it's the Braves. At least up until they started winning
>   it was. Are they still, officially?
>   If so, why? and how did they receive this label?
>
>   Unoffically, but without a doubt, America's Team is the Cubs. Why?
>   Orin.
>   Bradley U>
>
>
>
>--
>I'm really a jester in disguise!
Sorry, but I saw a survey somewhere that showed that America's favorite
team is the Damn Yankees. So much for the underdogs being loved.
ObBaseball Trivia: Cardinals have taken 3 out of 5 series from the Yanks
but have a losing record against them (Spring training games not counted)
--Shannon
From: k_mullin@oz.plymouth.edu (Mully)
Subject: Montreal Question.......
Reply-To: k_mullin@oz.plymouth.edu (Mully)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Lines: 9
What position does Mike Lansing play?  I cannot seem to find it
anywhere.  Thanks!!!!1
K-->
--
---
Keith J. Mullins                (o o)
P.S.C            -----------oOO--(_)--OOo----------- INTERNET:
Plymouth, NH     | "It takes a big man to cry, but | k_mullin@oz.plymouth.edu
From: vergolin@euler.lbs.msu.edu (David Vergolini)
Subject: Detroit Tigers
Organization: Michigan State University
Lines: 7
NNTP-Posting-Host: euler.lbs.msu.edu
Summary: Who can stop the roar of the Tiger's bats.
Keywords: Detroit is the top offensive team in the league
The roar at Michigan and Trumbull should be loader than ever this year.  With
Mike Illitch at the head and Ernie Harwell back at the booth, the tiger bats
will bang this summer.  Already they have scored 20 runs in two games and with
Fielder, Tettleton, and Deer I think they can win the division.  No pitching!
Bull!  Gully, Moore, Wells, and Krueger make up a decent staff that will keep
the team into many games.  Then there is Henneman to close it out.  Watch out
Boston, Toronto, and Baltimore - the Motor City Kittys are back.
From: kkeach@pomona.claremont.edu
Subject: three homer games and Padres notes
Reply-To: kkeach@pomona.claremont.edu
Organization: Pomona College
Lines: 36
To all those out there wondering about who holds the record for three
homer games ina career, the answer is Johnny Mize in his career with the
Cards and the Yanks.  He hit three 6 times.  I am almost sure about this. In
case anyone is wondering, the record for two homer games is held by Babe
Ruth and is 72.  Mize's record may not last for much longer because of Juan
Gonzalez.  He has at least three games with three and maybe 4.  I know that
he had at least two last year and one as a rookie.  I don't have any record
books at college for me to check on though.  Please let me know, okay, if I
am wrong.
Onto the Padres.  Is there anyone out there who follows them?- especial-ly those with access to local news?  I don't here anything in Los Angeles and I
can't get McPaper consistently around here.
comment:  It looks as though San Diego has gotten the better of the two deals
that brought Bell and Plantier to the Padres.  It has also forced the team to use Darrell Shermann.  Of course, Plantier could get injured again or he could
hit with the power of 91 but with a lower average.  Bell always could finish
with .240 and 15-18 hrs-essentially Jerald Clark's numbers.
leadoff comment:  Craig Shipley??????  I get on base 29% of the time if I'm
lucky at leadoff?  Hell, of the usual starters, use Gwynn.  He's got 4 steals
already.  Is Shipley starting because of an injury to Stillwell, though?  I
haven't seen Stillwell's name in any box scores.  Anyway unless you are going
to use Shermann at leadoff then use Gwynn.  He at lesat gets on base and this
year is stealing bases.
Sheffield comment:  Though the season is early and stats mean nothing.
Witness Phillips batting .500+ currently.  But does Sheffield have an injury,
or anythingelse wrong with him.  I just don't hear anything.
Andy Benes:  Is he pitching like he did in the second half of '91?   or is
this a flash of promise that he throws out evrey now and then?   Has anyone
seen him pitch the two good games?
score for today, Sunday april 18:  Padres 10, St Louis 6.  Padres sweep the
Cardinals as Gwynn goes 5 for 5 with a homer.  Sheffield and Tueful also homer
in a winning cause.
Thanks for listening-reading
any comments????
Kelly Keach
kkeach@pomona.claremont.edu
From: shapiro-david@yale.edu (David Shapiro)
Subject: Re: And America's Team is....But Why?
Organization: What, me organized?
Lines: 21
Distribution: na
<C5p6xq.GuI@me.utoronto.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu
In-reply-to: steinman@me.utoronto.ca's message of Sun, 18 Apr 1993 21:13:02 GMT
In article <C5p6xq.GuI@me.utoronto.ca> steinman@me.utoronto.ca (David Steinman) writes:
cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>	The defenition of the Underdog is a team that has no talent and comes
>out of nowhere to contend.  The '69 Mets and '89 Orioles are prime examples,
>not the Cubs.
Sorry, but it is *virtually* impossible to win a division with "no talent"
over 162 games.
Well, with players, certainly.  However, it is quite possible to win
it all with no managerial talent.  Cf. Blue Jays, 1992.
David
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Shapiro			| "People can call it a monkey, but I felt like
shapiro-david@yale.edu		| I had a piano on my back all winter long....
shapiro@minerva.cis.yale.edu	| The piano is off my back.  Maybe a trombone
| will be next."  -- Stan Belinda
From: k_mullin@oz.plymouth.edu (Mully)
Subject: Request for AL stats....
Reply-To: k_mullin@oz.plymouth.edu (Mully)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Lines: 4
Anyone have the AL individual stats or where i can find them?
K-->
From: pjtier01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Montreal Question.......
Lines: 12
Nntp-Posting-Host: ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Organization: University of Louisville
In article <1993Apr19.015442.15723@oz.plymouth.edu>, k_mullin@oz.plymouth.edu (Mully) writes:
>    What position does Mike Lansing play?  I cannot seem to find it
>  anywhere.  Thanks!!!!1
Currently, he's all over.  He played 2nd when Deshields was out.  He was
shifted to third when Delino came back.  And today, he played SS for a cold
Wil Cordero.
His natural positions seem to be in the middle infield, but they will seemingly
find a spot for himm somewhere as long as his bat is hot.
P. Tierney
From: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu (David J.)
Subject: Re: Detroit Tigers
Nntp-Posting-Host: mozzarella.journalism.indiana.edu
Reply-To: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Lines: 17
David Vergolini writes
>   The roar at Michigan and Trumbull should be loader than ever this year.
> With Mike Illitch at the head and Ernie Harwell back at the booth, the tiger
> bats will bang this summer.  Already they have scored 20 runs in two games
> and with Fielder, Tettleton, and Deer I think they can win the division.  No
> pitching! Bull!  Gully, Moore, Wells, and Krueger make up a decent staff that
> will keep the team into many games....
Yeah, if the Tigers can keep scoring 20 runs a game.  If I'm reading all this
woofing correctly, one midseason slump is going to pull this team out of
contention.  Like Yogi says, I'll believe when I believe it.
--
David J.(dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu)*****Blue Riddle Productions 1993
*-------------------------------It's on.--------------------------------*
***"THE RAP IS AN ART EP" is coming out on tape -- this time for real.***
*------------------------E-mail me for the 411.-------------------------*
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Detroit Tigers
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 20
NNTP-Posting-Host: marinara.mit.edu
Keywords: Detroit is the top offensive team in the league
In article <1qt1f3$o7o@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> vergolin@euler.lbs.msu.edu (David Vergolini) writes:
} The roar at Michigan and Trumbull should be loader than ever this year.  With
} Mike Illitch at the head and Ernie Harwell back at the booth, the tiger bats
} will bang this summer.  Already they have scored 20 runs in two games and with
} Fielder, Tettleton, and Deer I think they can win the division.  No pitching!
} Bull!  Gully, Moore, Wells, and Krueger make up a decent staff that will keep
} the team into many games.  Then there is Henneman to close it out.  Watch out
} Boston, Toronto, and Baltimore - the Motor City Kittys are back.
nice woofing (or should i say meowing?).
and yes, the Tiggers are a fun, exciting team that i would pay to see.
but last year, they went 75-87. this year, their offense is essentially
the same, and their pitching is, at best, essentially the same. so why
do you think they will suddenly improve to win the 92 or so games which will
be required to win the A.L. East? what has changed that i don't see?
remember, a 20-4 win is worth as much in the standings as a 3-2 win...
-*-
charles
From: cs902043@ariel.yorku.ca (SHAWN LUDDINGTON)
Subject: Re: Jack Morris
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Lines: 40
In article <1993Apr18.032345.5178@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>In article <1993Apr18.030412.1210@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> gspira@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Spira) writes:
>>Howard_Wong@mindlink.bc.ca (Howard Wong) writes:
>>
>>>Has Jack lost a bit of his edge? What is the worst start Jack Morris has had?
>>
>>Uh, Jack lost his edge about 5 years ago, and has had only one above
>>average year in the last 5.
>
>Again goes to prove that it is better to be good than lucky.  You can
>count on good tomorrow.  Lucky seems to be prone to bad starts (and a
>bad finish last year :-).
>
>(Yes, I am enjoying every last run he gives up.  Who was it who said
>Morris was a better signing than Viola?)
>
>Cheers,
>-Valentine
Hey Valentine, I don't see Boston with any world series rings on their
fingers.  Damn, Morris now has three and probably the Hall of Fame in his
future.  Therefore, I would have to say Toronto easily made the best
signing.  And don't tell me Boston will win this year.  They won't
even be in the top 4 in the division, more like 6th.
Shawn
From: spira@panix.com (Greg Spira)
Subject: Re: And America's Team is....But Why?
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
Lines: 12
In article <C5p3yr.GH2@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>
>	The defenition of the Underdog is a team that has no talent and comes
>out of nowhere to contend.  The '69 Mets and '89 Orioles are prime examples,
Uh, I don't think you can call a team with Tom Seaver, Jerry Koosman,
and Nolan Ryan on the pitching staff a team that has "no talent." They
did come out of nowhere, but some of the improvement was
forseeable.
Greg
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Subject: Re: And America's Team is....But Why?
Organization: Boo!
Lines: 36
In <1qsk9d$dck@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> jdl6@po.CWRU.Edu (Justin D. Lowe) writes:
>In a previous article, steinman@me.utoronto.ca (David Steinman) says:
>>cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>>
>>>	The defenition of the Underdog is a team that has no talent and comes
>>>out of nowhere to contend.  The '69 Mets and '89 Orioles are prime examples,
>>>not the Cubs.
>>
>>Sorry, but it is *virtually* impossible to win a division with "no talent"
>>over 162 games.
>>
>>I would amend your definition to:
>>
>>underdog:  a team expected to lose, but which wins thanks to underestimated
>>           talent.
>>--
>>Dave!
>>
>OK, the Mets and O's are good examples, but what about the '90 Reds?  Do you
>really think that anyone expected them to sweep the A's?  I know people who
>didn't even think they'd win a game, let alone win the Series.
These people were very silly.  Any team that gets to the World Series
can win the World Series, and anybody who ever expects a sweep is
crazy.  If you put the best team in baseball in the Series against
the worst team in baseball, the worst team would win at least a game
most of the time and very well could win the Series, though the odds
would certainly be against them.
Greg
From: Mamatha Devineni Ratnam <mr47+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Zane!!Rescue us from Simmons!!
Organization: Post Office, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 77
NNTP-Posting-Host: andrew.cmu.edu
So far Simmons looks like a total idiot.
1) Zane Smith should learn how to "switchpitch" and return from the DL. I
would rather have Zane Smith pitch right handed than have Moeller pitch at all.
2) I am sure Simmons was ready to say I told you so after Otto had an
impressive win last week. NOw Otto's latest debacle has restored Simmon's
reputation. Now he looks like he is back in his '92 form when he had the
AL's highest ERA among starters. Four our sake(not Ted's sake), I hope he
pitches with a 3.5 ERA for the rest of the season. Yeah, right.
3) Tomlin and Merced are a bit disappointing. They are still doing decently.
BUt considering the considerable amount of talent and maturity they have
shown their first seasons, they seem to have actually gotten a little
bit worse. Tomlin was almost unhittable his rookie year against lefty batters.
Merced had a very good OBA his rookie year. He showed a lot of concentration at
the plate in his rookie year.
4) Walk: Well, he seems to be on the losing end tonight. BUt I still think that
Walk desrved his contract.
5) Leyland should accept a part of the blame for the LaValliere situation. I
can't understand his and management's fear of losing Tom Prince through
waivers. Even if they do, what's the use. He is aright hander like Slaught.
Not a very smart platoon. Also, I am blaming Leyland in this case, since he is hcurrently    convinced that LaVAlliere is through, while giving him
way too much time last year in the regular season AND the playoffs(SLaught
should have played in all 7 games; he has a good average against right handed
pitching). Didn't Leyland and Simmons forsee this last year, and attempt to
trade LaValliere last year itself? Any fool could tell them LaVAlliere
wasn't very fit last year.
6) Dennis MOeller is SCARY!!!
7) Candeleria: Well, he is not going to have such a high ERA at the end of the
season. Maybe it will be in 3-4 range. BUt $1 million  plus? Come on. Other
than the customary home run giving stage Patterson goes through for a few weeks,
Patterson has served the PIrates very well each year. So far, he seems to have
pitched well for the Rangers. I think the PIrates should have spent the money
on Patterson in stead.
8) The Rookie batters: Well, Young has surprised me a bit with his instant impact. Other than that, their excellent performance hasn't been too much of a surprise. I think we should thank Doughty for that.
9) Rookie Pitchers: Worse than expected, especially Cooke.
10) Slaught: How come he wasn't given a contract extension last year? NOw his
value has increased immensely.
11) Lonnie Smith!! Well, Eric Davis was signed for a comparable amount.
Let's see. Eric can hit better. He can run better. He can field better.
Now why didnt the PIrates go after Eric Davis. An injured Davis is better
than a healthy Lonnie Smith. Even if Lonnnie Smith gets some big hits this year,he won't be an asset. He has looked terrible on the bases and in the field.
12) Management: BIG BIG ZERO. Sauer has yet to make a forceful agreement
in favor of revenue sharing. He seems more concerned about pleasing that
idiot Danforth by preparing the team for a move to Tampa Bay.
13) Alex Cole fiasco. The PIrates infield and CF positions look good. The
RF and LF would have looked good if we could have gotten Cole to replace
two of the four outfielders. Eric Davis, Van Slyke and Cole would have made a
very respectable outfield. Even without Eric Davis, thye PIrates would have
a respectable outfield with Cole, SVan Slyke, and Merced(I think he should hit
left handed against lefts in stead of switch hitting). Simmons did have options
for the outfield. Ironically, the biggest accomplishment of Simmon's tenure was
getting Alex Cole really cheap. Too bad.
14) Compensatory draft picks for Bonds: Forget it. The pirates can rant and rave.
they will not get those picks. As of now, the issue is still being appealed.
Now, if this doesnt convince anyone that Simmons and Sauer are idiots,
nothing else will.
On a final note. Tim Wakefield won't be as awful as he was in his last 2
starts. BUt don't count on him pitching like last year for the rest of
the season. Also, if the Pirates are in contention towards rthe end of the
season, they will miss Redus's clutch hitting and his speed(he has peaked
in the second half of the last 2 seasons)>
-Pravin Ratnam
From: gt0523e@prism.gatech.EDU (Michael Andre Mule)
Subject: Re: Torre: The worst manager?
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 24
In article <93095@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt7469a@prism.gatech.EDU (Brian R. Landmann) writes:
>
e,
>Later, in the ninth inning with the bases loaded and two outs he puts
>lankford, a 300 hitter with power in as a pinch runner and uses Luis
>Alicea, a 250 hitter with no power as a pinch hitter.  What the Helll
>is he thinking.
If memory serves me well, Alicea hit it, and damn near tied the game.
Torre obviously knows his players better than you do.
See y'all at the ballyard
Go Braves
Chop Chop
Michael Mule'
--
Michael Andre Mule
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0523e
Internet: gt0523e@prism.gatech.edu
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Jack Morris
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Lines: 33
In <1993Apr19.024222.11181@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs902043@ariel.yorku.ca (SHAWN LUDDINGTON) writes:
>Hey Valentine, I don't see Boston with any world series rings on their
>fingers.  Damn, Morris now has three and probably the Hall of Fame in his
>future.  Therefore, I would have to say Toronto easily made the best
>signing.  And don't tell me Boston will win this year.  They won't
>even be in the top 4 in the division, more like 6th.
Yeah Valentine, how many rings does Clemens have?
Nothin' like good old fashioned Canadian logic...
BTW: The only good thing I can say about the Jay's rotation this year
is that it could have been worse.  Stewart might have stayed healthy.
--
cordially, as always,                      maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
"So many morons...
rm                                                   ...and so little time."
From: gt0523e@prism.gatech.EDU (Michael Andre Mule)
Subject: Militello update
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 22
HEY!!! All you Yankee fans who've been knocking my prediction of Baltimore.
You flooded my mailbox with cries of "Militello's good, Militello's good."
Where is he??!! I noticed he got skipped over after that oh so strong first
outing.  He's not by any chance in Columbus  now, is he?  Please don't tell
me you're relying on this guy to be the *fourth*, not the fifth, but the
*fourth* starter on this brittle pitching staff.
As for the O's, it's still early.
See y'all at the ballyard
Go Braves
Chop Chop
Michael Mule'
--
Michael Andre Mule
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0523e
Internet: gt0523e@prism.gatech.edu
From: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu (David J.)
Subject: Re: THE METS ARE RAPISTS!!
Nntp-Posting-Host: mozzarella.journalism.indiana.edu
Reply-To: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Lines: 19
"Todd Karlin" writes
> I do not read Klapisch's news columns regularly, but I
> do know that he has been accused before as being an instigator
> that enjoys (hopefully for only professional reasons) to drumb
> up a news story, even if there isn't one there.  Now as far as
> the confrontation with Bobby Bonilla a few days ago, I almost
> totally blame Bonilla.  No matter what a member of the press
> does, and no matter how much of a putrid individual he might
> be, that does not give a ballplayer the right to threaten a
> journalist.
Bonilla wasn't threatening anyone.  He just wanted to give him the dollar
tour.  =^)
--
David J.(dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu)*****Blue Riddle Productions 1993
*-------------------------------It's on.--------------------------------*
***"THE RAP IS AN ART EP" is coming out on tape -- this time for real.***
*------------------------E-mail me for the 411.-------------------------*
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Jack Morris
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 59
NNTP-Posting-Host: marinara.mit.edu
In article <1993Apr19.024222.11181@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs902043@ariel.yorku.ca (SHAWN LUDDINGTON) writes:
} In article <1993Apr18.032345.5178@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
} >In article <1993Apr18.030412.1210@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> gspira@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Spira) writes:
} >>Howard_Wong@mindlink.bc.ca (Howard Wong) writes:
} >>
} >>>Has Jack lost a bit of his edge? What is the worst start Jack Morris has had?
} >>
} >>Uh, Jack lost his edge about 5 years ago, and has had only one above
} >>average year in the last 5.
} >
} >Again goes to prove that it is better to be good than lucky.  You can
} >count on good tomorrow.  Lucky seems to be prone to bad starts (and a
} >bad finish last year :-).
} >
} >(Yes, I am enjoying every last run he gives up.  Who was it who said
} >Morris was a better signing than Viola?)
}
} Hey Valentine, I don't see Boston with any world series rings on their
} fingers.
oooooo. cheap shot. :^)
} Damn, Morris now has three and probably the Hall of Fame in his
} future.
who cares? he had two of them before he came to Toronto; and if the
Jays had signed Viola instead of Morris, it would have been Frank who
won 20 and got the ring. and he would be on his way to 20 this year, too.
} Therefore, I would have to say Toronto easily made the best
} signing.
your logic is curious, and spurious.
there is no reason to believe that Viola wouldn't have won as many games
had *he* signed with Toronto. when you compare their stupid W-L records,
be sure to compare their team's offensive averages too.
now, looking at anything like the Morris-Viola sweepstakes a year later
is basically hindsight. but there were plenty of reasons why it
should have been apparent that Viola was the better pitcher, based
on previous recent years and also based on age (Frank is almost 5
years younger! how many knew that?). people got caught up in the '91
World Series, and then on Morris' 21 wins last year. wins are the stupidest,
most misleading statistic in baseball, far worse than RBI or R. that he
won 21 just means that the Jays got him a lot of runs.
the only really valid retort to Valentine is: weren't the Red Sox trying
to get Morris too? oh, sure, they *said* Viola was their first choice
afterwards, but what should we have expected they would say?
} And don't tell me Boston will win this year.  They won't
} even be in the top 4 in the division, more like 6th.
if this is true, it won't be for lack of contribution by Viola, so who cares?
-*-
charles
From: cs902043@ariel.yorku.ca (SHAWN LUDDINGTON)
Subject: Re: Montreal Question.......
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Lines: 14
In article <1993Apr19.015442.15723@oz.plymouth.edu> k_mullin@oz.plymouth.edu (Mully) writes:
>   What position does Mike Lansing play?  I cannot seem to find it
> anywhere.  Thanks!!!!1
>
>	K-->
>--
>---
>Keith J. Mullins                (o o)
>P.S.C            -----------oOO--(_)--OOo----------- INTERNET:
>Plymouth, NH     | "It takes a big man to cry, but | k_mullin@oz.plymouth.edu
He's played 2nd and 3rd.  I also heard he can play short too.
Shawn
From: Mamatha Devineni Ratnam <mr47+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Zane!!Rescue us from Simmons!!
Organization: Post Office, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 17
NNTP-Posting-Host: po4.andrew.cmu.edu
In my last message, I wrote:
****************************************************
12) Management: BIG BIG ZERO. Sauer has yet to make a forceful agreement
in favor of revenue sharing.
******************************************************
I meant argument instead of agreement.
Also, I think I should add a coouple of Ted's positive achievements
- Smiley trade was good for the pirates. but I think Ted could have gotten
someone better than Neagle. Cummings seems to be pretty good.
- The Cole trade was excellent. BUt Simmons has botched it up now.
-This year's draft seems to have gone well for the PIrates. BUt then they
lost 2 high picks in the Bonds fiasco.
OH well, I should give up trying to prove that Simmons is not a total
idiot.
From: ajpat@IASTATE.EDU (Amy J Patterson)
Subject: Twins Games :)
Reply-To: ajpat@IASTATE.EDU (Amy J Patterson)
Organization: Iowa State University
Lines: 4
Does anyone know if the Twins games are broadcast in
good ole Ames Iowa??????????????
Thanks all.
From:  (Austin Jacobs)
Subject: BOB KNEPPER WAS DAMN RIGHT!
Nntp-Posting-Host: berkeley-kstar-node.net.yale.edu
Organization: University of Yaleta
Lines: 17
Don't you GUYS think so?  I mean, c'mon!  What the heck are women doing
even THINKING of getting into baseball.  They cause so many problems.  Just
look at Lisa Olson.  Remember that feisty reporter that entered the New
England Patriots locker room?  She started crying like a LITTLE GIRL!  I
just don't think women belong in a man's sport.  Before you smart guys
flame me for this, I know the given example was about football.  Who cares?
It still applies to other MALE sports.  How can we have women umpires?
Jeez!  Look at Pam Postema.  Just because she's a woman, everybody on the
face of the earth thinks it's great that she's getting an opportunity to
ump.  If you even watched the games and had an IQ greater than that of
roast beef, you'd see that she is not nearly as good as most AAA umpires.
Besides, she is probably more worried about cracking a fingernail with a
foul tip off of Wade Boggs' bat. Or Jose Oquendo's bat. Either way, there
are too many complications.
�Austin Jacobs (Bob Knepper Fan Club Member #12)
From: cs902060@ariel.yorku.ca (GEOFFREY E DIAS)
Subject: Attention anyone in Syracuse NY or Richmond VA
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Lines: 13
There are two conflicting reports about a pitcher that is
either in the Jays' farm system or the Braves'. His name is Bill Taylor.
He was picked up by the Jays, but had to be offered back to the Braves
before they were able to send him to the Syracuse Chiefs.
One report says that the Braves took him back and assigned him
to Richmond. The other says that he is on the Chiefs' roster. Which one is
right?
From: savoy@hg.uleth.ca (Jim Savoy)
Subject: Re: WHAT'S WITH ALL THESE SCORES?
Reply-To: savoy@hg.uleth.ca
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Lines: 33
> (Sean Garrison) writes:
>} Alright.  I have one thing to say.  I don't know if it's just me, but I
>} thought this newsgroup is a place for discussion.  Why must people
>} constantly post these little messages about how a certain team is winning
>} in a certain inning?  I mean, come on!  How many people are so dependent on
>} this newsgroup that they have to find out the scores mid-game here?
> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>amen.
I hear ya, brother.
> take a look at the timestamps on some
> of the posts you read sometime--the propagation delays are significant,
> often hours or even days, and even people who have access to machines
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> which are close to the poster on the network...
Let's try WEEKS! It is April 18th today and I just finished reading posts
regarding the Cleveland Indians boating tragedy. Needless to say, I don't want
to read partial linescores of games played 3 weeks ago.
As Charles mentioned (I excluded the quote): Join a mailing list if you want to
woof (I consider entering 4th inning scores as woofing). Thank you. Now to
plug on and read the rest of the posts about spring training...
_____________________________________________________________________________
Jim Savoy          University Of Lethbridge         savoy@hg.uleth.ca
Sigless and Bible Black
From: davewood@bruno.cs.colorado.edu (David Rex Wood)
Subject: Re: BOB KNEPPER WAS DAMN RIGHT!
Nntp-Posting-Host: bruno.cs.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 24
In article <1993Apr19.035406.11473@news.yale.edu> (Austin Jacobs) writes:
>Don't you GUYS think so?  I mean, c'mon!  What the heck are women doing
>even THINKING of getting into baseball.  They cause so many problems.  Just
>look at Lisa Olson.  Remember that feisty reporter that entered the New
>England Patriots locker room?  She started crying like a LITTLE GIRL!  I
>just don't think women belong in a man's sport.  Before you smart guys
>flame me for this, I know the given example was about football.  Who cares?
> It still applies to other MALE sports.  How can we have women umpires?
>Jeez!  Look at Pam Postema.  Just because she's a woman, everybody on the
>face of the earth thinks it's great that she's getting an opportunity to
>ump.  If you even watched the games and had an IQ greater than that of
>roast beef, you'd see that she is not nearly as good as most AAA umpires.
>Besides, she is probably more worried about cracking a fingernail with a
>foul tip off of Wade Boggs' bat. Or Jose Oquendo's bat. Either way, there
>are too many complications.
>
>
>�Austin Jacobs (Bob Knepper Fan Club Member #12)
Someone tell me there's a :-) hidden here somewhere... ???
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: 93jll@williams.edu (Teflon X)
Subject: Re: Zane!!Rescue us from Simmons!!
Organization: Williams College, Williamstown, MA
Lines: 28
NNTP-Posting-Host: hancock.cc.williams.edu
In article <sfoVX7O00WB4MIUm0d@andrew.cmu.edu> Mamatha Devineni Ratnam <mr47+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>So far Simmons looks like a total idiot.
>5) Leyland should accept a part of the blame for the LaValliere situation. I
>can't understand his and management's fear of losing Tom Prince through
>waivers. Even if they do, what's the use. He is aright hander like Slaught.
>Not a very smart platoon. Also, I am blaming Leyland in this case, since he is hcurrently    convinced that LaVAlliere is through, while giving him
>way too much time last year in the regular season AND the playoffs(SLaught
>should have played in all 7 games; he has a good average against right handed
>pitching). Didn't Leyland and Simmons forsee this last year, and attempt to
>trade LaValliere last year itself? Any fool could tell them LaVAlliere
>wasn't very fit last year.
Sorry, but this is the biggest load of bunk I've seen in a while.
a) The Pirates have been trying to trade LaValliere for some time now.
Nobody was even vaguely interested.
b) Several other teams had made it known that they would grab Prince,
who was out of options.
c) LaValliere's release had nothing to do with him being through. He
was released, because, in the event of an injury to Slaught,
LaValliere is no longer capable (they believe) of being the everyday
catcher.
Since Slaught is as good against righties as he is against lefties,
the offense should actually improve with this move.
Toby
From: 93jll@williams.edu (Teflon X)
Subject: Re: Militello update
Organization: Williams College, Williamstown, MA
Lines: 26
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: hancock.cc.williams.edu
In article <93602@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt0523e@prism.gatech.EDU (Michael Andre Mule) writes:
>HEY!!! All you Yankee fans who've been knocking my prediction of Baltimore.
>You flooded my mailbox with cries of "Militello's good, Militello's good."
>
>Where is he??!! I noticed he got skipped over after that oh so strong first
>outing.
About as good as Mussina's. better than Sutcliffe's and McDonald's
>  He's not by any chance in Columbus  now, is he?
He's in the bullpen. Steinbrenner is in charge after all.
> Please don't tell
>me you're relying on this guy to be the *fourth*, not the fifth, but the
>*fourth* starter on this brittle pitching staff.
He's got the talent to be the 4th starter now, and evetually the ace.
He was a higher ranked (and generally better) prospect than Arthur
Rhodes who happens to be, well hey, the Oriole's 4th starter.
>
>As for the O's, it's still early.
As for Militello, it's still early.
Toby Elliott
From: heatonn@yankee.org (Neal Heaton)
Subject: Sam, are you there?
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Lines: 9
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
To Mr. Millitello -
Listen, Sammy, can you explain why Buck pitched you in relief
yesterday?  I figure no-one would know this better than you yourself.
Jason A. Miller
"some doctor guy"
P.S. Tell Bam-Bam he should've made good on his thread to retire :-)
From:  (Sean Garrison)
Subject: Re: Bonilla
Nntp-Posting-Host: berkeley-kstar-node.net.yale.edu
Organization: Yale Univeristy
Lines: 37
In article <1993Apr17.213553.2181@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>,
krueger@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (theodore r krueger) wrote:
> Isn't it funny that  a white person calls comeone a "nigger" and gets banned
> for a year, but a black person calls someone a "faggot" and there is no
> consequence?
> Ted
Ted, you're missing a vital point.  As Roger Lustig pointed out in a
previous response, the reason why Schott was banned from baseball was
because she had been known to call and think in a racially biased manner on
a constant basis.  Such thoughts affected her hiring practices.  Bonilla,
on the other hand, was found to have mentioned this one word a single time.
If he had been known to go around, criticizing homosexuals, it would be a
different story.  Furthermore, he is merely an athlete.  He doesn't have to
hire anyone as Schott had to do.  Dave Pallone, the former NL umpire who is
an admitted homosexual, has decided to assist in a protest before a Mets
game at Shea.  He, like you, thinks that Bonilla should be suspended from
baseball.  Pallone is hoping for a year's suspension.  In my opinion,
that's downright ludicrous.  As Howie Rose on WFAN said, if you start
suspending athletes who have mentioned a derogatory word even a single time
under whatever conditions, then you'd probably have enough people remaining
to play a three-on-three game.  Now, honestly, if you truly analyze the
differences between the two cases that you bring up in your article, I
would think that you'd reconsider your thoughts.
-Sean
*******************************************************************************
"Behind the bag!"
- Vin Scully
*******************************************************************************
From: mike@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Michael Chen)
Subject: Re: Jack Morris
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixf.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: mike@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Michael Chen)
Organization: Columbia University
Lines: 44
In article <1993Apr19.024222.11181@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs902043@ariel.yorku.ca (SHAWN LUDDINGTON) writes:
>In article <1993Apr18.032345.5178@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr18.030412.1210@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> gspira@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Spira) writes:
>>>Howard_Wong@mindlink.bc.ca (Howard Wong) writes:
>>>
>>>>Has Jack lost a bit of his edge? What is the worst start Jack Morris has had?
>>>
>>>Uh, Jack lost his edge about 5 years ago, and has had only one above
>>>average year in the last 5.
>>
>>Again goes to prove that it is better to be good than lucky.  You can
>>count on good tomorrow.  Lucky seems to be prone to bad starts (and a
>>bad finish last year :-).
>>
>>(Yes, I am enjoying every last run he gives up.  Who was it who said
>>Morris was a better signing than Viola?)
>>
>>Cheers,
>>-Valentine
>
>Hey Valentine, I don't see Boston with any world series rings on their
>fingers.  Damn, Morris now has three and probably the Hall of Fame in his
>future.  Therefore, I would have to say Toronto easily made the best
>signing.  And don't tell me Boston will win this year.  They won't
>even be in the top 4 in the division, more like 6th.
>
>Shawn
>
Gee, I never knew Valentine made a comment about how Viola signing
with Boston was gonna bring a World Series title to Boston.  I don't
think Valentine ever said Boston will win this year.  Boy, talk about
sensitive, insecure Toronto fans.  :)
In any case, I think Viola would have made a better signing.  Why?
Viola is younger, and is left handed (how many left handed starters does
Toronto have?
-Mike
/mike@columbia.edu
Organization: University of Notre Dame - Office of Univ. Computing
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
<1993Apr16.173252.7393@asd.com>
Lines: 11
In article <1993Apr16.173252.7393@asd.com>, scott@asd.com (Scott Barman) says:
>
>Wasn't Ron Bloomberg, the former Yankee who got the first base hit
>by a Designated Hitter, Jewish??
i have no idea, nor do i care.  however, i'd like to point out that
blomberg got the first plate appearance by a designated hitter, and
the first walk by a designated hitter.  i am not sure, but i do not
think that he also got the first hit by a designated hitter.
bob vesterman.
Organization: University of Notre Dame - Office of Univ. Computing
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
<1qkkodINN5f5@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> <C5L9vC.3r6@world.std.com>
Lines: 10
In article <C5L9vC.3r6@world.std.com>, Eastgate@world.std.com (Mark Bernstein)
says:
>
>(Which reminds me: do they still serve Kosher hot dogs at the new Comiskey?)
>
yup.  with onions, of all things.
bob vesterman.
Organization: University of Notre Dame - Office of Univ. Computing
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Subject: Re: Juggling Dodgers
Lines: 26
In article <mssC5Mx2v.C44@netcom.com>, mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) says:
>
>Lasorda juggled his lineup against the Pirates Friday night, and from
>the results one might conclude that he will stick with the changes
>for a while.
>
>Butler          reclaimed leadoff spot, probably for the whole season
>Davis           wants to get his speed into play.  4-for-4 last night
>Piazza          the kid is doing *everything* well.  very well.
>Strawberry      the primadonna insists on batting cleanup
how do you know this? did lasorda say, before the game, "here's the
lineup i'm using.  i'm batting strawman fourth because the primadonna
insists on batting cleanup"?
if this is true (note that i don't think it is), lasorda should be
fired for at least two reasons:
1) publicly humiliating his players;
2) knuckling under to his players wishes.
however, i think that the more likely explanation is that lasorda
wanted strawberry to bat fourth, and that you hate strawberry.
bob vesterman.
Organization: University of Notre Dame - Office of Univ. Computing
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Subject: Re: Let's Talk Phillies
<1993Apr16.060540.27397@adobe.com>
<1993Apr17.020347.9554@mgweed!mgwhiz.att.com>
Lines: 26
In article <1993Apr17.020347.9554@mgweed!mgwhiz.att.com>,
prg@mgweed!mgwhiz.att.com (Phil Gunsul) says:
>
>I try to edit this newsgroup and feed it to one of the local elementary       ,
>schools
>they have a group of students that just love baseball and are learning to use
>computers, but I'm telling you, it's gotten to the point that I don't even
>edit
>the files anymore, just read them and throw out the trash...  And thanks to
>all
>you people that think it's wonderful to include a swear word or two in your
>signature files, that's really nice...  I have to read the whole article and
>then toss it out because of the .sig.
duh, why not just chop out the .sig?
bob vesterman.
ps: hey kids, take all those pictures of dead presidents out of your
parents' wallets and mail them to:
bob vesterman
c/o dept. of mathematics
university of notre dame
notre dame, indiana 46556
Organization: University of Notre Dame - Office of Univ. Computing
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Subject: Re: MLB = NBA?
Lines: 15
In article <1993Apr17.052025.10610@news.yale.edu>, (Sean Garrison) says:
>
>I think that
>players' salaries are getting way out of hand to the point that they're on
>a pace to become severely detrimental to baseball's future.
>
so you want to decrease players' salaries?
so you want to increase owners' salaries?
the two are equivalent.
bob vesterman.
Organization: University of Notre Dame - Office of Univ. Computing
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Subject: Re: USA McWeekly Stats
Lines: 13
In article <franjion.734996049@spot.Colorado.EDU>, franjion@spot.Colorado.EDU
(John Franjione) says:
>
>Also, I have the impression from reading this group and Bill James
>that Elias is a bunch of money-grubbing jerks whose mission is to
>charge as much as they can for baseball statistical info
>
and bill james is not? yeah.  sure.  do you own "the bill james players
rating book"?
bob vesterman.
Organization: University of Notre Dame - Office of Univ. Computing
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Subject: Re: Bosox win again! (the team record is 9-3)
<1993Apr18.233404.16702@ncar.ucar.edu>
Lines: 12
In article <1993Apr18.233404.16702@ncar.ucar.edu>, amj@rsf.atd.ucar.edu (Anthony
Michael Jivoin) says:
>
>With the "HAWK", the Red Sox definitely have a chance for the
>east this year. He brings class, work ethic and leadership to
>the park each day.
>
too bad he doesn't bring the ability to hit, pitch, field or run.
bob vesterman.
From: philly@bach.udel.edu (Robert C Hite)
Subject: Let's Talk Phillies
Nntp-Posting-Host: bach.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Lines: 20
The Phillies salvaged their weekend series against the Chicago Cubs
by beating them 11-10 in a wild one at Wrigley Field Sunday
afternoon.  It was the Phils only win in the three game series, and
was the first time the Phillies have lost a series in the young
season.   The Phils jumped to a 6-0 lead in the game thanks to 2
John Kruk 2-run homers and two Wes Chamberlain homers.  However Danny
Jackson, and the Phillies middle relief was unable to hold the lead.
Mitch Williams entered the game with the Phillies leading 8-4,
however Candy Maldonado hit a ninth inning homerun to tie it.  In
the 11th, Dave Hollins hit a three-run shot, his first of the year
to push the Phils ahead to stay.  However, in a shaky bottom of the
11th the Cubs scored 2 runs and had the tying runner on base when
the Cubs pinch hit Randy Myers for Bob Scanlan (they were out of
position players) and Myers bunted into a double play to end the
game.
The Phils bring their league leading 9-3 record back to action
Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday against the Padres.
From: cmeyer@bloch.Stanford.EDU (Craig Meyer)
Subject: Re: Jack Morris
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]
Lines: 27
Michael Chen (mike@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu) wrote:
: In any case, I think Viola would have made a better signing.  Why?
: Viola is younger, and is left handed (how many left handed starters does
: Toronto have?
Well, I agree that Viola is a better signing.  However, why does
everyone say that you want lefthanded starters?  I understand lefthanded
spot relievers, even though they usually face more righthanded batters
than lefthanded batters.  I just don't understand why people insist
on lefthanded starters, unless there is a park effect (e.g., Yankee Stadium).
Most batters in MLB are righthanded, so righthanded starters will have
the platoon advantage more often than lefthanded starters.
I guess one argument for lefty starters is that certain teams
may be more vulnerable to LHP's than RHP's.  However, this is probably
only a factor in the postseason, because teams seldom juggle their starters
for this reason during the regular season.
I think you just want the best starters you can get, regardless of
whether they are lefties or righties.  Lefthanded starters tend to have
higher ERA's than righthanded starters, precisely because managers
go out of their way to start inferior lefties (or perhaps because of
the platoon advantage).
Am I missing something here?
--Craig
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Jack Morris
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Lines: 30
In article <1993Apr19.024222.11181@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs902043@ariel.yorku.ca (SHAWN LUDDINGTON) writes:
>
>Hey Valentine, I don't see Boston with any world series rings on their
>fingers.
Yah.  So?
>Damn, Morris now has three and probably the Hall of Fame in his
>future.
He certainly didn't earn his last one.  *HOW* many games did he blow
in the World Series?  All of the ones he started?
>Therefore, I would have to say Toronto easily made the best signing.
Oh, yes.  Definitely.  Therefore Morris is better than Clemens.
Don't give me that shit.  If Boston had Alomar, Olerud, Henke, and
Ward while Toronto had Rivera, Jack Clark, Jeff Reardon, things would
have looked a little different last fall.  Give credit where credit is
due.  This lavishing of praise on Morris makes me sick.
>And don't tell me Boston will win this year.  They won't
>even be in the top 4 in the division, more like 6th.
I'm willing to bet they don't finish sixth.  I'm also willing to bet
they don't finish first.  And if you give me 3-2 odds, I'm willing to
bet that they finish ahead of the Blue Jays.
-Valentine
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Jack Morris
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Lines: 33
In article <1qt6ooINN7gd@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>
>the only really valid retort to Valentine is: weren't the Red Sox trying
>to get Morris too? oh, sure, they *said* Viola was their first choice
>afterwards, but what should we have expected they would say?
Lou wanted Morris all along.  The idiot.  Giving the man $40 million
to play with is like giving a five year old a loaded Uzi with the
safety off.  The only question is how many shots he will get off
before somebody is wise enough to take it away.
>} And don't tell me Boston will win this year.  They won't
>} even be in the top 4 in the division, more like 6th.
>
>if this is true, it won't be for lack of contribution by Viola, so who cares?
I don't see why people expect Boston to finish sixth.  The bottom four
teams last year were essentially tied.  Boston, in seventh place, had
73 wins.  The Yankees and Indians, tied for fourth place, had 76 wins.
Now I should think it is obvious that the Red Sox improved more than
the Indians or Tigers.  Basically, the Red Sox are stronger this year
at 1B, DH, SS, LF, and RF.  They have healthier starting pitchers (so
far, at least) and better relievers.  I see no reason why they
shouldn't win ~85 games.  Meanwhile, the Indians are in shambles and
the Tigers *still* have no pitching.  They will win some 20-3
blowouts, but they will lose an awful lot of 7-5 games too.
*MAYBE* the Sox will play poorly, win 78 games, and finish fifth.
But I think third or fourth place is more likely.
Cheers,
-Valentine
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Militello update
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: usa
Lines: 25
In article <93602@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt0523e@prism.gatech.EDU (Michael Andre Mule) writes:
>
>HEY!!! All you Yankee fans who've been knocking my prediction of Baltimore.
Um.  How many games have the Orioles won?
>You flooded my mailbox with cries of "Militello's good, Militello's good."
He is, or will be.
>Where is he??!! I noticed he got skipped over after that oh so strong first
>outing.  He's not by any chance in Columbus  now, is he?  Please don't tell
>me you're relying on this guy to be the *fourth*, not the fifth, but the
>*fourth* starter on this brittle pitching staff.
No, currently there's no room for him in the rotation.  Key is having
a Most Impressive April.  Abbott is pitching well.  Perez is back.
Wickman has pitched his way into the rotation, and is holding his spot
with an outstanding performance his last time out.  And Kamieniecki
isn't doing too poorly himself.
If the Yankees find themselves in need of a starter, Militello will
get another chance.  Until then, he'll have to wait in line.
-Valentine
From: dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen)
Subject: Re: BOB KNEPPER WAS DAMN RIGHT!
Organization: Sequoia Peripherals, Inc.
Lines: 51
Why did I get sucked into this?
In article <1993Apr19.035406.11473@news.yale.edu> (Austin Jacobs) writes:
>Don't you GUYS think so?  I mean, c'mon!  What the heck are women doing
>even THINKING of getting into baseball.  They cause so many problems.  Just
Assuming you're serious, I guess you'd be surprised to hear
that us GUYS don't think so. I would guess that a tiny fraction
of 1% of the folks reading your post agree with it. I kind of
doubt that even you agree with it.
I'm not going to go through your points one at a time, because,
after all, not many of them have anything at all to do with baseball.
I'm only replying to this because you brought up Pam Postema, the
AAA umpire who sued (is suing?) baseball on the grounds of sex
discrimination because she wasn't promoted to the majors.
>Jeez!  Look at Pam Postema.  Just because she's a woman, everybody on the
>face of the earth thinks it's great that she's getting an opportunity to
>ump.  If you even watched the games and had an IQ greater than that of
>roast beef, you'd see that she is not nearly as good as most AAA umpires.
I've never seen her ump a game. I have no first hand experience
with her ability as an umpire.
But I have seen her on talk shows. And her point seems to be
that she can call balls and strikes as well as any of the
umpires and she knows the rulebook better than most. It seems
to me that she is missing the point and if that's how she sees
the role of umpires in the game, well I wouldn't promote her
either.
The umpires primary role has nothing to do with calling baserunners
safe or out; hell, Joe Lundy could do that. Their primary function is
to maintain order in the game, keep the game moving, and keep the
players from trying to kill each other.
Umpires have to be extremely tough people. That disqualifies most
of us, both men and women. And if Ms. Postema thinks that she
deserves to be a major league umpire because of her command of
the rulebook, then I think that disqualifies her as well. Umpires
need to command the game; command of the rulebook is secondary.
--
Dave Eisen                               "To succeed in the world, it is not
dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU               enough to be stupid, you must also
Sequoia Peripherals: (415) 967-5644       be well-mannered." --- Voltaire
Home:                (415) 321-5154
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Subject: Re: Montreal Question.......
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego
Lines: 13
Nntp-Posting-Host: mbongo.ucsd.edu
In article <1993Apr19.015442.15723@oz.plymouth.edu>, k_mullin@oz.plymouth.edu (Mully) writes:
|>
|>    What position does Mike Lansing play?  I cannot seem to find it
|>  anywhere.  Thanks!!!!1
He's a shortstop by training, but he's been at second (mostly) and third
this year for the Expos.
--
Dave DeMers			 	        demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	0114		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Subject: Re: Let's Talk Phillies
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego
Lines: 17
Nntp-Posting-Host: mbongo.ucsd.edu
In article <93108.164642RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>, RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu writes:
|> In article <1993Apr17.020347.9554@mgweed!mgwhiz.att.com>,
|> prg@mgweed!mgwhiz.att.com (Phil Gunsul) says:
...
|> ps: hey kids, take all those pictures of dead presidents out of your
|> parents' wallets and mail them to:
|>
|>                bob vesterman
|>
And send him a shift key too...
--
Dave DeMers			 	        demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	0114		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: king@cogsci.ucsd.edu (Jonathan King)
Subject: Re: Zane!!Rescue us from Simmons!!
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Lines: 120
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.ucsd.edu
Summary: oh please, it's way too early to get upset.
Mamatha Devineni Ratnam <mr47+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>So far Simmons looks like a total idiot.
Whatever you say.  I think it's just 12 games into the season myself, so
I'm going to wait a bit before calling names.
>2) I am sure Simmons was ready to say I told you so after Otto had an
>impressive win last week. Now Otto's latest debacle has restored Simmons'
>reputation. Now he looks like he is back in his '92 form when he had the
>AL's highest ERA among starters. Four our sake(not Ted's sake), I hope he
>pitches with a 3.5 ERA for the rest of the season. Yeah, right.
I expect that Dave Otto will be a really bad pitcher, and I have no
idea why Simmons ever wanted him.  On the other hand, I expect him to
release Otto if he doesn't turn things around pretty fast.  (BTW,
Otto's game score for that 0 IP stinker was only 22, which points out
a problem with the method since Otto's performance was infinitely bad,
and excruciatingly prolonged.)
>3) Tomlin and Merced are a bit disappointing. They are still doing decently.
>But considering the considerable amount of talent and maturity they have
>shown their first seasons, they seem to have actually gotten a little
>bit worse.
I think Merced's rookie year was a bit flukey, but aren't you willing to
give him some more at bats (and Tomlin a few more starts) before acting
so gloomy?
>4) Walk: Well, he seems to be on the losing end tonight. BUt I still think
>that Walk desrved his contract.
No he didn't.  Walk is a time bomb.  He has no stuff whatsoever, and when
the league finally realizes this, it won't be pretty at all.
>8) The Rookie batters: Well, Young has surprised me a bit with his
>instant impact. Other than that, their excellent performance hasn't
>been too much of a surprise. I think we should thank Doughty for that.
Don't be so fast.  Doughty is the guy who signed Steve Buechele, which
was a move that threatened to bury Kevin Young in the minors.
Meanwhile, I'm not sure whether Doughty or Simmons signed Martin as a
six-year free agent before the 1992 season.
>9) Rookie Pitchers: Worse than expected, especially Cooke.
Twice through the rotation, and you've given up?  Yikes.
>10) Slaught: How come he wasn't given a contract extension last year?
>Now his value has increased immensely.
But so has his age, at least in baseball terms.  The useful half-life
of a 34- year-old injury-prone catcher can't be much longer than a year.
>11) Lonnie Smith!! Well, Eric Davis was signed for a comparable amount.
But he wanted to be a Dodger, and felt he had something to prove after his
disastrous 1992.  I don't think there was any chance for the Bucs to sign
him.
>Let's see. Eric can hit better. He can run better. He can field better.
>Now why didnt the PIrates go after Eric Davis. An injured Davis is better
>than a healthy Lonnie Smith.
He certainly wasn't last year.
>Even if Lonnnie Smith gets some big hits this year,he won't be an asset.
>He has looked terrible on the bases and in the field.
Hey, that's the "Skates Smith" package deal.  Anybody who acquires
Lonnie for his defense or base-running (particularly at this stage) is
a real weirdo.
>12) Management: BIG BIG ZERO. Sauer has yet to make a forceful argument
>in favor of revenue sharing. He seems more concerned about pleasing that
>idiot Danforth by preparing the team for a move to Tampa Bay.
If that's the goal of the team ownership, than I don't see why Sauer
gets a zero for making his boss happy.  I don't know what he has or
hasn't said about revenue sharing, so I can't comment there.
>13) Alex Cole fiasco.
> [stuff deleted]
>Ironically, the biggest accomplishment of Simmons' tenure was
>getting Alex Cole really cheap. Too bad. [that he gave him away in the
>expansion draft.]
It's annoying, but since Leyland seems to have been pushing for them
to retain Jeff King, it was probably unavoidable.  Meanwhile, I think
bigger accomplishments of Simmons' tenure were getting some value for
John Smiley, not trading real prospects for veterans down the stretch
last year, drafting well in 1992, letting the rookies show something
in 1993.  Foley, Smith, and Candelaria were acquired to be replacement
parts, which means that even if fail it hasn't done serious damage to
the Bucs' future.
>14) Compensatory draft picks for Bonds: Forget it. The pirates can rant
>and rave. they will not get those picks. As of now, the issue is still
>being appealed.
Does this mean that the Bucs lost the initial arbitration case?  I
never heard the outcome of this.  When will the final verdict be in on
this?
>Now, if this doesnt convince anyone that Simmons and Sauer are idiots,
>nothing else will.
I'm not sure who was the idiot in this case, so I don't know who to
blame.  It might have been Doug Danforth, after all.  In fact, I
*seriously* suspect it was Doug Danforth, who has shown his
willingness to call the shots at exactly those moments when the gun is
pointed at his feet.
(btw--I've wondered whether my latest posts have been getting
off-site, so if somebody known to impersonate e.e. cummings can see
this, would he drop me a short note?)
jking
From: pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger)
Subject: Re: Dodger Question
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 31
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu
The Dodgers have been shopping Harris to other teams in their
quest for more left-handed pitching.  So far, no takers.
Personally, I think Harris is a defensive liability, and he
has also led the team in past years for hitting into double
plays, or at least been among the leaders.
Sharperson showed last year that if given a chance to play
every day, he can get the job done.  If Sharpy played just
one base every day, say third, he'd also improve defensively.
Wallach has helped tremendously on defense, as has Reed.
The improved defense is quite noticeable and is having an
effect on the pitching staff.  Both Astacio AND Martinez
were bailed out in recent starts by great defensive plays.
Martinez pitched into the ninth in a game that might
have seen him lifted in the third in past years.
Astacio lasted 7 innings the other day under similar circumstances.
The Dodgers are turning double plays, and keeping more balls
in the infield than last year.  And Piazza has also been great
on defense.  He has thrown out 10 of 14 batters trying to
steal and has at least one pick off at first.
Wallach, clearly, has contributed to the over all improvement on
defense.  But his offense is awful and he has cost the Dodgers
some runs.  But I don't think he is as bad as his current average.
I suspect he will come out of this slump much as Davis and Straw
seem to have come out of theirs.
Dodger
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Subject: Re: Let it be Known
Nntp-Posting-Host: koufax.cv.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Lines: 15
In article <93104.233239ISSBTL@BYUVM.BITNET>, <ISSBTL@BYUVM.BITNET> writes:
|> I would like to make everyone aware that in winning the NL West the Atlanta
|> Braves did not lead wire-to-wire.  Through games of 4/14/93 the Houston
|> Astros are percentage points ahead of the "unbeatable" Braves.
And they deserve to be, if for no other reason than salvaging a little of the
honor of the NL West. The supposed strongest division in baseball lost 6 of 7
to the East yesterday, with only the Astros prevailing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We will stretch no farm animal beyond its natural length
paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511
home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
A SABR member since 1979
From: dougr@meaddata.com (Doug Ritter)
Subject: Re: Expanded NL Strike Zone? (Was Re: A surfeit of offense?)
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Lines: 30
NNTP-Posting-Host: birch.meaddata.com
In article <13247@news.duke.edu> fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush) writes:
>In article <1993Apr14.160447.17835@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu
>(Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>
>
>>We won't really be able to say anything for at least another couple of
>>weeks.  But so far it looks like a homerific season!  (Might the umps
>>be squeezing the strike zone?)
>>
>
>
>Watching the Braves on TBS, I would have said that the strike zone
>in the NL has expanded this season.  Specifically, it appears that
>the strike zone has moved above the belt.  Yeah, the announcers
>have commented on that also, but it was also my perception.
>
>However, the strike zone hasn't climbed all the way up to
>"the letters".  It's more like a little ways under the letters.
>
>Any other perceptions out there?
Judging by the way the Reds' pitchers have performed thus far, it
appears to me that the zone has been squeezed to the size of a grape.
1/2 :-)
--
===============================================================================
Douglas N. Ritter
dougr@meaddata.com                             Life is short - ride hard!
..!uunet!meaddata!dougr
From: brian@meaddata.com (Brian Curran)
Subject: Re: I've found the secret!
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: taurus.meaddata.com
In article <1993Apr15.161730.9903@cs.cornell.edu>, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
|>
|> Why are the Red Sox in first place?  Eight games into the season, they
|> already have two wins each from Clemens and Viola.  Clemens starts
|> again tonight, on three days rest.
Huh?  Clemens pitched last on Saturday, giving him his usual four days
rest.
|> What's up?  Are the Sox going with a four-man rotation?  Is this why
|> Hesketh was used in relief last night?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Curran                 Mead Data Central              brian@meaddata.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I didn't think I should've been asked to catch
when the temperature was below my age."
- Carlton Fisk, Chicago White Sox catcher,
on playing during a 40-degree April ball game
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Pleasant Yankee Surprises
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Lines: 33
In article <1993Apr15.175302.25180@sarah.albany.edu> js8484@albnyvms.bitnet writes:
>In article <120399@netnews.upenn.edu>, sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall) writes:
>>
>>	1)Spike Owen. Sure, he's hitting like crazy, but the guy *cannot*
>>	  field to save his life! And they said he was brought in to
>>	  provide defense? Velarde, Stankiewicz, and even Silvestri
>>	  are better defensively than Owen.
>
>Remember - it's still early. Look for his offense to tail off, and
>his defense to improve (hopefully). He has that rep because I heard
>that either last year, or over the last 5 years, or something like
>that - he has the third highest fielding percentage among major league
>shortstops - behind C.R. and Tony (I'm not gonna help this sorry Mets
>team at all) Fernandez. I do agree though that he has not looked all
>that impressive in the field thus far.
Owen only has one error so far, I believe.  That seriously
underrepresents the harm he has done in the field.
Owen will cleanly play any ball he reaches.  He will have a fine
fielding percentage, like always.  The problem is that he doesn't
reach anything that isn't hit straight at him!
This wouldn't be quite as obvious a problem if he were playing next to
Kelly Gruber or Robin Ventura.  But the third baseman for the Yankees
is Wade Boggs (who should have moved across the diamond *last* year)!
I've only seen one game, Abbott's first start, but there were three
balls hit to the left side which would have been stopped by quality
defensive players.  Instead they were charged as hits against Abbott.
Cheers,
-Valentine
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Braves Pitching UpdateDIR
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Lines: 13
In article <1993Apr15.010745.1@acad.drake.edu> sbp002@acad.drake.edu writes:
>or second starter.  It seems to me that when quality pitchers take the
>mound, the other teams score less runs.  The team that scores the most
>runs wins.  This puts the team with the better pitching at the advantage
>(providing they can stop the opposing team from scoring runs).  A low
>scoring game would clearly benefit the Braves.
Not clear to me at all.  I'd certainly rather have a team who was winning
4-1 games than 2-1 games.  In the 2-1 game, luck is going to play a much
bigger role than in the 4-1 game.
Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: timlin@spot.Colorado.EDU (Michael Timlin)
Subject: Re: Expanded NL Strike Zone? (Was Re: A surfeit of offense?)
Nntp-Posting-Host: spot.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 11
jrogoff@scott.skidmore.edu (jay rogoff) writes:
>It was my impression watching the Mets & Rockies that umpires were
>calling strikes above the belt, too, but not as far up as the letters.
>It would be nice if this were the case.
The umps saw the weekend boxscores, too.  They knew the pitchers needed
some help or they would be watching the sunrise. :)
Mike Timlin
timlin@spot.colorado.edu
From: stlouis@unixg.ubc.ca (Phill St. Louis)
Subject: Billy Taylor a Brave or Jay?
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Lines: 8
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca
Does anyone know where Billy Taylor is?  Richmond or Syracuse?  He was taken
by the Jays in the Rule V draft, but not kept on the roster.  Baseball Weekly
said that he was demoted to Syracuse, but a Toronto paper indicated that
the Braves took him back.  Is there an Atlanta fan, or anyone reading this,
who knows?
Thanks
psl
From: steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Defensive Averages 1988-1992, Third Base
Summary: career defensive averages at third
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Lines: 68
Compiled from the last five Defensive Average reports, here are the career
DAs for the individual players in the reports.  Stats are courtesy of
Sherri Nichols.  Players are listed in descending order.
Third Basemen
-------------
Name                 1988  1989  1990  1991  1992   88-92
Mitchell, Kevin      .690  ----  ----  ----  ----   0.690
Gonzales, Rene       .685  ----  ----  ----  ----   0.685
Leius, Scott         ----  ----  ----  .653  .680   0.672
Pendleton, Terry     .692  .685  .631  .689  .634   0.667
Ventura, Robin       ----  ----  .641  .647  .677   0.657
Wallach, Tim         .728  .674  .600  .630  .665   0.657
Gruber, Kelly        .717  .657  .580  .630  .664   0.650
Pagliarulo, Mike     .631  ----  .575  .744  ----   0.649
Harris, Lance        ----  ----  .642  .652  ----   0.648
Howell, Jack         .656  .666  .609  ----  ----   0.647
Williams, Matt       ----  ----  .633  .653  .656   0.647
Caminiti, Ken        ----  .675  .630  .653  .596   0.642
Sabo, Chris          .751  .626  .616  .613  .575   0.642
Gaetti, Gary         .616  .638  .655  .632  ----   0.637
Buechele, Steve      .647  .616  .647  .681  .599   0.635
Salazar, Luis        ----  .617  .643  .637  ----   0.632
Pecota, Bill         ----  ----  ----  .629  ----   0.629
Schmidt, Mike        .628  ----  ----  ----  ----   0.628
Riles, Ernie         ----  .627  ----  ----  ----   0.627
Boggs, Wade          .643  .659  .550  .653  .634   0.626
Martinez, Egdar      ----  ----  .621  .645  .599   0.624
Molitor, Paul        .633  .617  ----  ----  ----   0.624
Phillips, Tony       ----  ----  .623  ----  ----   0.623
*NL Average*         .643  .625  .602  .623  .603   0.619
Brookens, Tom        .616  ----  ----  ----  ----   0.616
King, Jeff           ----  ----  .616  ----  ----   0.616
Seitzer, Kevin       .654  .583  .593  ----  .635   0.616
*AL Average*         .641  .612  .604  .620  .602   0.615
Jacoby, Brook        .624  .621  .600  ----  .597   0.613
Hansen, Dave         ----  ----  ----  ----  .611   0.611
Law, Vance           .635  .576  ----  ----  ----   0.611
Magadan, Dave        ----  ----  ----  ----  .609   0.609
Jefferies, Greg      ----  ----  ----  ----  .606   0.606
Sharperson, Mike     ----  ----  .606  ----  ----   0.606
Zeile, Todd          ----  ----  ----  .614  .593   0.605
Baerga, Carlos       ----  ----  ----  .604  ----   0.604
Hayes, Chris         ----  .601  .622  .606  .574   0.602
Livingstone, Scott   ----  ----  ----  ----  .597   0.597
Hamilton, J.         .611  .584  ----  ----  ----   0.595
Kelly, Pat           ----  ----  ----  .595  ----   0.595
Lyons, Steve         .590  ----  ----  ----  ----   0.590
Oberkfell, Ken       .590  ----  ----  ----  ----   0.590
Johnson, Howard      .628  .549  .611  .573  ----   0.588
Bell, Buddy          .587  ----  ----  ----  ----   0.587
Lansford, Carney     .620  .578  .594  ----  .550   0.587
Presley, Jim         .643  .595  .530  ----  ----   0.584
Schu, Rick           ----  .584  ----  ----  ----   0.584
Worthington, Cal     ----  .583  .575  ----  ----   0.580
Hollins, Dave        ----  ----  ----  ----  .577   0.577
Sheffield, Gary      ----  ----  .584  ----  .567   0.575
Blauser, Jeff        ----  .573  ----  ----  ----   0.573
Fryman, Travis       ----  ----  ----  .571  ----   0.571
Gantner, Jim         ----  ----  ----  .570  ----   0.570
Gomez, Lee           ----  ----  ----  .551  .542   0.546
Palmer, Dean         ----  ----  ----  ----  .520   0.520
--
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Grad Student At Large
"It is considered good to look wise, especially when not
overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball
From: luriem@alleg.edu(Michael Lurie) The Liberalizer
Subject: Re: THE ALL TIME GREATS TEAM
Organization: Allegheny College
Lines: 33
In article <1993Apr14.203122.12367@iscsvax.uni.edu>
reed5575@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>
>
Dave Winfield's name does not go
> in the same sentence. As Aaron, Robinson, and Ott.
In terms of PEAK, and I repeat PEAK years, Winfield has Done it
all. He has batted in the 340's for a season, drove in 100 and more runs
many times in a row before his injury. Consistently hit at or near 300
while knocking in 35 home runs. Have you even LOOKED at Dave Winfield's
slugging percentage for three or 4 of his best seasons. I still think that
dave was one of the BETTER of all time, but obviously not the best. He was
one of the best athletes evr to play baseball. He hit line drives that hit
the scoreboard in left-center field, a feat np one has done in the new
Stadium. Heck, only 2 or 3 other people have hit it over that green fence
since it has been remodeled. He could field, had a bullet arm, and his
hitting was comparable in many seasons to gary sheffields, and barry bonds
of last season. He is older now, and slowing down, takes more of an
uppercut to lift the ball out of the park, but he will always be my hero,
and my idol. There is nothing that could make me happier than George
inviting Dave back to the Bronx to play his last year of ball with the
Yankees. Of course, he will most likely refuse the offer, but who knows?
For 3 million dollars, he'll play. Heck they are giving gallego 2.5
million this year, having Dave as their DH, while leaving him time to play
the field when Tartabull is injured, or Nokes and mass are traded, should
give the Yanks the inspiration and leadership that will sweep in a new age
of Yankee domination.
Michael Lurie
From: luriem@alleg.edu(Michael Lurie) The Liberalizer
Subject: Re: Pleasant Yankee Surprises
Organization: Allegheny College
Lines: 22
In article <120399@netnews.upenn.edu> sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan
Sepinwall) writes:
>
> Some pleasant (and then some not so pleasant) surprises about the 1993
> edition of the Bronx Bombers so far.
>
> 	4)Wickman. A friend made a comparison between Wickman and Jack
> 	  Morris - they never have impressive stats but they always
> 	  find some way to win (although Morris seems to be losing that
> 	  ability). I figured that Wickman would be the least important
> 	  part of the Steve Sax trade (best trade since we got that Ruth
> 	  guy), maybe winding up as a good middle reliever. But I like
what
> 	  I've seen so far. He doesn't pitch pretty, but he gets the job
done.
>
Actually, I kind of liked the Abott trade. We did trade the rookie of
the year, SNOW, but with Don mattingly at first for another 8 years, Why
bother.
From: luriem@alleg.edu(Michael Lurie) The Liberalizer
Subject: Re: Pleasant Yankee Surprises
Organization: Allegheny College
Lines: 9
In article <120399@netnews.upenn.edu> sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan
Sepinwall) writes:
Farr's ERA is in the
> 	  20s or 30s, and Howe's is.....infinite. (I didn't think such
> 	  a thing was possible, but it is).
Actually, according to USA today, Howe has 1 inning atttributed to him,
but maybe that is incorrect. By the excellent report.
From: luriem@alleg.edu(Michael Lurie) The Liberalizer
Subject: Yankee fears.
Organization: Allegheny College
Lines: 9
I'll tell youm all one thing. Steve howe and FARR are much better then the
worst pitcher in yankee Pitching ___________________
WHO do you think I am talking about. I'll post the answers if you e-mail
to me. Use reply. or post you're answers, but e-mailing them to me meaqns
that I will post the final results. I have one particular horrid pitcher
in mind.
From: luriem@alleg.edu(Michael Lurie) The Liberalizer
Subject: Re: Pleasant Yankee Surprises
Organization: Allegheny College
Lines: 7
In article <120399@netnews.upenn.edu> sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan
Sepinwall) writes:
Thanks Alan, that was well thought out.
Even written in an entertaining style.
From: hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Bruce 'DoppleAckers Anonymous' Hasch)
Subject: Re: DAVE KINGMAN FOR THE HALL OF FAME
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Lines: 132
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu
Summary: Dave Winfield was a marginal ballplayer.  Yeah, right.
Keywords: Hall of Fame, Winfield, Kingman, Murray, Joe Lundy, :-)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
In article <1993Apr15.093231.5148@news.yale.edu>,  (Steve Tomassi) writes...
>     Hi, baseball fans! So what do you say? Don't you think he deserves it?
>I mean, heck, if Dave Winfield (ho-hum) is seriously being considered for it,
>as is Lee Smith (ha), then why don't we give Dave Kingman a chance? Or Darrell
>Evans! Yeah, yeah! After the Hall of Fame takes in them, it can take in
>Eddie Murray and Jeff Reardon.
Oh, yeah.  Dave Winfield--marginal player.  Guy didn't hit a lick, had
negligible power, was a crap fielder and had no staying power.  Dave Winfield,
now entering his (I believe) 20th big league season, is still a damn decent
hitter.  Admittedly, his defense has slipped a great deal, but in his prime,
he had a powerful arm and great range.  Take a look at the stats:  I don't
know where you even BEGIN to make an argument that Winfield and Kingman are
similar players.  Kingman was a one-dimension power hitter--he couldn't field,
he ran like an anvil, hit for a low average (though, if I remember right, his
OBP wasn't THAT hideous...), and (for those who consider such things important)
was a absolute-primo-dick.
Eddie Murray?  Yup, only the best 1st baseman of the 80's.  I know that
MVP votes are conducted by mediots, but given that he got jobbed out of the
MVP he deserved in 1983, it seems that he wasn't overrated by the media.
Lee Smith?  Hmmmm... This one's actually pretty close.  He's had a s
solid, dependable career as a closer despite pitching in some nasty parks
(Wrigley, Fenway...).  I'd have to take a closer look at the stats (it's been
a while), but it seems Lee Arthur is of HOF caliber.
You do make a legitimate point about the HOF credentials of relievers,
simply racking up a lot of saves doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot if you
blow a bunch, too.  Simply because Minnesota and Boston and (for a month)
Atlanta used Reardon as a closer for longer than he should have been one,
the Equalizer has racked up an impressive number of saves.  No way should
HomerMan be in the HOF, IMHO.
Darrell Evans?  Nice career, actually a bit underrated (kinda like
Ted Simmons, IMHO), but not a HOF'er.
>     Well, in any case, I am sick and tired (mostly sick) of everybody
>giving Hall of Fame consideration to players that are by today's standards,
>marginal.
Lemme ask you this.  Who the hell playing the game ISN'T marginal?
>Honestly, Ozzie Smith and Robin Yount don't belong there. They're both
>shortstops that just hung around for a long time. Big deal.
>Let's be a little more selective, huh? Stop handing out these honors so
>liberally. Save them for the guys who really deserve it. Face it, if something
Now, wait a goddamn minute here.  Ozzie Smith absolutely REDEFINED the
position of shortstop.  His defense was SO good that he's won something along
the lines of 10 Gold Gloves.  Again, Gold Gloves are mediot-biased, and a
good argument could be made that Larkin deserved one or two of Ozzie's more
recent awards, but usually, this is tempered by someone else in the early
80's getting the Gold Gloves Ozzie deserved earlier in his career.  Ozzie's
offense, you ask?  Good OBP, great speed numbers, in a park which, for most of his
career, depressed offense, admittedly, no power ('cept against Tom Niedenfuer
:-|), but still, a definite asset offensively.
Yount?  3,000 hits, MVP at two different positions, uh-huh, a real
stiff.  His '82 was one of the great years EVER by a player in recent memory,
and probably ranks behind only the peak seasons of Wagner and Banks, as far as
SS numbers go.  He's a clear HOF'er, IMHO.
>isn't done, there will be little prestige in the Hall of Fame anymore. When
>certain individuals believe that Steve Garvey or Jack Morris are potential
>candidates, the absurdity is apparent. Gee, can these guys even compare to
>the more likely future Hall of Famers like Kirby Puckett or Nolan Ryan?
Well, as far as Garvey goes, you're right.  Garvey is a "mediot"
candidate, pushed because of his "winning attitude" (a minor factor, if one
at all), and his "great defense" (no errors, admittedly, but the range of
a tree stump...).  Garvey shouldn't be in the HOF.
SkyJack?  I've said a lot of nasty things about SkyJack in the last
year or so, but this is mostly in response to mediots and woofers who talk
about Morris' "ability to win" which is nothing more than Morris' "ability
to pitch when Toronto to score tons of runs".  At this point, Morris is an
average pitcher (although from his early returns in '93, he may be damned
close to done.).  But, in all fairness, Morris was a dominant pitcher in the
80's for up-and-down Tiger teams.  While 1984 was (obviously) a great year
for Detroit, the rest of the decade, the team was generally in contention, but
not favorites.  Morris' career numbers are quite good, and worthy of HOF
"consideration".
Ryan?  Of course, but be careful.  I guarantee you that someone will
throw back your earlier logic about "Yount and Smith being shortstops who
hung around a long time".  After all, Nolan never won a Cy...  Damn, he's
just pitcher who hung around for 99 years...  His W-L record is mediocre...
(Of course, Nolan's a HOF'er...)
Puck?  Probably, although he's got to play reasonably well for a few
more years (10 years, even good ones, aren't enough to make the HOF, most
likely).  That said, I believe Puckett WILL make the HOF, pretty much
regardless of how the rest of his career turns out (barring something REALLY
tragic or sudden).  He's very popular in the media and with fans, and
legitimately has been one of the best CF's in the game since he joined the
league.  I've always liked the guy, and I hope he does make it.  And, in the
end, I think the Puck will make it in.  But, really, it's too early to sell.
This debate comes up rather frequently on the net, and, believe it
or not, I never tire of it.  It's an interesting subject.  Here's an off
the top of my head list of potential HOF'ers from each team.  I probably
left a couple of guys off, so feel free to follow up.  I won't consider ANYONE
who started playing after about 1985 (again, too early to tell.) [Note: these
are all active players, I'm not counting recent retirees]
Baltimore:  Cal Ripken (should be a lock by now, even if Gehrig's record stands)
Boston: Roger Clemens (might be a lock already, which is amazing), Dawson (?)
Detroit: Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker (possibilities)
Milwaukee: Robin Yount (discussed earlier)
New York: Wade Boggs (possibly), Mattingly (long shot)
Toronto: Paul Molitor and Jack Morris (possibilities)
Kansas City: George Brett (lock)
Minnesota: Kirby (too early to tell), Winfield (lock)
Oakland: Eckersley (lock), McGwire (too early), Rickey (lock), Welch (LONG shot)
Texas: The Mighty Nolan [Too early to consider Canseco or Strange :-)]
Cubs: Sandberg (lock)
St. Louis: Ozzie (lock), Lee Smith (probably)
New York: Murray (almost a lock), Saberhagen (obviously, he's got to regain
past form)
[And most certainly, NOT Vince Coleman, despite what he'll tell you :-)]
Los Angeles: Butler, Strawberry, and Hershiser are all long shots.
San Diego: Tony Gwynn (pretty good shot)
Colorado: Dale Murphy (a good shot), Ryan Bowen (just to see if you're awake)
[Before I get flames: this is an off-the-top-of-the-head list, there's
probably a few deserving candidates that I left off, and, I didn't include
Barry Bonds, Will Clark, Any Atlanta Starting Pitcher, Frank Thomas, Canseco,
McGriff, etc. because I only considered guys who started playing before
1985)]
E-mail or post, I almost fear what I may have started here...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Hasch                hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu        Sell the team, Eli!!
"If a hitter is a good fastball hitter, does that mean I should throw him a
bad fastball?"-- Larry Andersen
From: scott@asd.com (Scott Barman)
Subject: Re: Best Homeruns
Organization: American Software Development Corp., West Babylon, NY
Distribution: na
Lines: 22
Darryl Strawberry's moon shots were fun!  He can hit those high and far
home runs that if he actually ran them out he'd be rounding second base
by the time they landed.  We used to say that he should have to file a
flight plan at LaGuardia for some of them.  Then _Bull_Durham_ came out
and that was changed.  :-)
On homers he pulled that didn't go high, they were microwave home runs.
Microwave, as in they got outta there in a hurry!  In a game in 1988, he
came off the bench with the flu and on the second pitch send a rocket
down the right field line that didn't even allow Bob Murphy the "luxury"
of a home run call.  The story went he stayed in the clubhouse, the with
the Mets down by two and two on Davey Johnson sent for him to pinch hit.
He came out of the clubhouse saying "one swing and we go home."  He hit
the homer, ran the bases, then went straight for the clubhouse to shower
and go home.
Those were the days....
--
scott barman    | Mets Mailing List (feed the following into your shell):
scott@asd.com   |            mail mets-request@asd.com <<!
|            subscribe
Let's Go Mets! |            !
From: scott@asd.com (Scott Barman)
Subject: Re: BaseballIsDead
Organization: American Software Development Corp., West Babylon, NY
Lines: 29
In article <1993Apr8.195853.10650@midway.uchicago.edu> as16@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>My question to you all is why does the media seem to embrace the theme of the
>death of baseball so strongly?  I have seen articles of a similar vein in
>the Chicago Tribune and in sports editorials on tv.
Maybe because baseball is the only business where those who are
responsible for the fiscal aspects of the game preach gloom and doom.
These allegedly intelligent people seem to predict bad times, losing
money, bankruptcies at an alarming rate, and there's going to be an
increased degradation of the product they produce.  Could you imagine
IBM, with all their problems, promoting themselves the way Major League
Baseball does?  Their stock would plummet to unthinkable depths (not
that they are too far from it now :-).  What would happen at GM?  Where
would GM be if they admitted to cutting corners and producing an
inferior product because of alleged labor problems? I think it shows a
lack of confidence for the people who run the game.
>Anyway, it just frustrates me when the media says such things, because it
>inevitably leads to owners trying quick fixes like increasing play-offs to
>satisfy television or trying interleague play to drum up interest.
Forget it.  Word has it three divisions with a wild card is just about
a done deal.  It has to be decided soon since negotiations with the
networks also have to begin soon.
--
scott barman    | Mets Mailing List (feed the following into your shell):
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|            subscribe
Let's Go Mets! |            !
From: jsr2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOHN STEPHEN RANDOLPH)
Subject: Re: ALL-TIME BEST PLAYERS
Organization: Lehigh University
Lines: 198
In article <1993Apr13.115313.17986@bsu-ucs>, 00mbstultz@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes
:
>I've recently been working on project to determine the greatest
>players at their respective postions.  My sources are Total Baseball,
>James' Historical Abstract, The Ballplayers (biography), word of
>mouth, and my own (biased) opinions...
>
>Feel free to comment, suggest, flame (whatever)...but I tried
>to be as objective as possible, using statistical data not inlcuded
>for time/convience's sake.  (I judged on Rel. BA, Adj OPS, Total Average,
>fielding range/runs, total player rating (Total Baseball), stolen bases
>(for curiosity's sake), TPR/150 g, and years played/MVP.
>
>1B  Career
> 1) Lou Gehrig
> 2) Jimmie Foxx
> 3) Eddie Murray
> 4) Hank Greenberg
> 5) Johnny Mize
> 6) Willie McCovey
> 7) Dick Allen
> 8) Harmon Killebrew
> 9) Kieth Hernandez
It's i before e except after c, and in people named kEIth.
>10) Bill Terry
>11) George Sisler
>
>2B
> 1) Eddie Collins
> 2) Joe Morgan
> 3) Jackie Robinson
> 4) Rogers Hornsby
> 5) Nap Lajoie
> 6) Rhyne Sandberg
Learn to spell.  It's Ryne.
> 7) Charlie Gehringer
> 8) Rod Carew
> 9) Bobby Grich
>10) Bobby Doerr
>
>SS
> 1) Honus Wagner
> 2) Cal Ripken Jr
> 3) John Lloyd
> 4) Ozzie Smith
> 5) Robin Yount
> 6) Joe Cronin
> 7) Arky Vaughan
> 8) Luke Appling
> 9) Ernie Banks
>10) Lou Boudreau
>
>3B
> 1) Mike Schmidt
> 2) Ed Matthews
> 3) George Brett
> 4) Wade Boggs
> 5) Ron Santo
> 6) Brooks Robinson
> 7) Frank Baker
> 8) Darrell Evans
> 9) Pie Traynor
>10) Ray Dandridge
>
How can Brooks be # 6?  I think he would at least be ahead of Ron Santo.
>C
> 1) Josh Gibson
***********************
1a)  Darren Daulton   *       MVP 1993
***********************
> 2) Yogi Berra
> 3) Johnny Bench
> 4) Mickey Cochrane
> 5) Bill Dickey
> 6) Gabby Hartnett
> 7) Roy Campanella
> 8) Gary Carter
> 9) Carlton Fisk
>10) Thurman Munson
>
>LF
> 1) Ted Williams
> 2) Stan Musial
> 3) Rickey Henderson
> 4) Carl Yastrzemski
> 5) Barry Bonds
> 6) Tim Raines
> 7) Joe Jackson
> 8) Ralph Kiner
> 9) Willie Stargell
>10) Al Simmons
>
>CF
> 1) Willie Mays
> 2) Ty Cobb
> 3) Tris Speaker
> 4) Mickey Mantle
> 5) Joe DiMaggio
> 6) Oscar Charleston
> 7) Andre Dawson
> 8) Duke Snider
> 9) Kirby Puckett
>10) Dale Murphy
>
>RF
> 1) Babe Ruth
> 2) Hank Aaron
> 3) Frank Robinson
> 4) Mel Ott
> 5) Al Kaline
> 6) Reggie Jackson
> 7) Dave Winfield
> 8) Roberto Clemente
> 9) Tony Gwynn
>10) Pete Rose
>
>P
> 1) Walter Johnson
> 2) Lefty Grove
> 3) Cy Young
> 4) Christy Mathewson
> 5) Pete Alexander
> 6) Tom Seaver
> 7) Roger Clemens
> 8) Bob Gibson
> 9) Warren Spahn
>10) Satchel Paige
>11) Juan Marichal
>12) Whitey Ford
>13) Bob Feller
>14) Jim Palmer
>15) Steve Carlton
>
>Overall (estimated):
> 1) Ruth
> 2) Williams
> 3) Mays
> 4) Cobb
> 5) Aaron
> 6) Wagner
> 7) Speaker
> 8) Schmidt
> 9) W.Johnson
>10) Mantle
>11) Musial
>12) DiMaggio
>13) F.Robinson
>14) Grove
>15) Henderson
>16) J.Gibson
>17) C.Young
>18) Collins
>19) Foxx
>20) Mathewson
>21) Alexander
>22) Morgan
>23) J.Robinson
>24) Hornsby
>25) Ott
>26) Seaver
>27) Clemens
>28) Matthews
>29) Lajoie
>30) Yastrzemski
>31) Kaline
>32) Brett
>33) Gibson
>34) Spahn
>35) Charleston
>36) Berra
>37) Ripken Jr.
>38) Lloyd
>39) Raines
>40) Sandberg
>41) Gehringer
>42) O.Smith
>43) Yount
>44) Ba.Bonds
>45) Paige
>46) R.Jackson
>47) Marichal
>48) Ford
>49) Feller
>50) Boggs
>
>
>Again, feel free to comment...
>
>Mike, BSU
>
--
From: djc47305@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Doc )
Subject: re: Evil smile on my face as Cubs Beat Braves
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 29
Boy, hats off to any Cubs fan who can actually muster up the courage to put
down Braves fans.  I mean, all the Braves have done is gone to two consecutive
world series.  Also, being the Cubs fan that I am, I really have to hand it to
all the Braves fans out there that are capable of driving me crazy with that
infernal cheer that they have.
However, I do have to protest anyone saying that all Cubs fans are stupid.  The
way I see it, either I'm just too stupid to acknowledge it, or that observation
was just plain wrong.  You might have us confused with Bear fans. ;)
Anyway, about a two weeks ago just about everyone was saying that the Cubs
would finish up last in their division.  (Even behind Florida?!?  Sheesh!)
These same people were predicting the Braves to clean up in their respective
division.  Well,  we're ten games into the season and these people are a little
less vocal now.  I wonder why.
Well, the way I see it, the East is up for grabs, and whoever wants it most is
going to take it, with the exception of Florida.  Every team seems to have
good batting and pitching, with Philly presently leading the pack.  But, I just
have to point out, if the Cubs do take the East, they'll do it without the
benefit of a competent manager.  However, and it pains me to say it, the
pennant is going to go to the West.
Just had to get that off my chest.
Doc
bem
benefit of a compee
From: ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary Built Like Villanueva Huckabay)
Subject: Jose Canseco's Swing - 1992 vs. 1986.
Organization: Julio Machado Candlelight Vigil Society
Distribution: na
Lines: 50
Was going over some videos last night.....
Studying 1986 and 1992 videotapes of Jose Canseco proved to be very
interesting.  And enlightening.
Here's my analysis of Jose Canseco, circa Sep '92, and Jose Canseco,
circa June 1986.
1.  He's bulked up too much.  Period.  He needs to LOSE about 20 pounds,
not gain more bulk.
2.  His bat speed has absolutely VANISHED.  Conservatively, I'd say he's
lost 4%-7% of his bat speed, and that's a HUGE amount of speed.
3.  That open stance is KILLING him.   Note that he acts sort of like
Brian Downing - way open to start, then closes up as ball is
released.  Downing could do this without significant head movement -
Canseco can't.  Also, note that Canseco doesn't always close his
stance the same way - sometimes, his hips are open, sometimes,
they're fully closed.  Without a good starting point, it's hard
to make adjustments in your swing.
What would I do, if I were Jose?
Aside from salting away a large sum of a cash that I could never touch,
so that I'd never have to work again, I'd restructure my entire swing.
First, minimize movement before the swing.  Close and widen the stance,
and severely cut down the stride I take on my swing.  Hopefully, this
will cut down on the time I need to swing, and will allow me to move
the bathead more freely.
Second, drop 20 pounds.  Cut out the weight work.
Third, relax the wrists.  Will cost some power, but until I can find
my 1988 stroke, concentrate on keeping the back shoulder up, rolling
the wrists through the strike zone, and hit line drives.  His strength
is more than enough so that some of those line drives will get out of
the park.
If Canseco's open stance and resulting bad habits are a result of his back
problems, he'll be out of baseball in three years.  If not, he could
still hit 600+ HR.
--
*   Gary Huckabay   * "You think that's loud enough, a$$hole?"           *
*   "Movie Rights   * "Well, if you're having trouble hearing it, sir,   *
*   available thru  *  I'd be happy to turn it up for you.  I didn't     *
*     Ted Frank."   *  know that many people your age liked King's X."   *
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Subject: Brewer bullpen rocked again...
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Lines: 30
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
For the second straight game, California scored a ton of late runs to crush
the Brewhas. It was six runs in the 8th for a 12-5 win Monday and five in
the 8th and six in the 9th for a 12-2 win yesterday. Jamie Navarro pitched
seven strong innings, but Orosco, Austin, Manzanillo and Lloyd all took part
in the mockery of a bullpen yesterday. How's this for numbers? Maldanado has
pitched three scoreless innings and Navarro's ERA is 0.75. The next lowest
on the staff is Wegman at 5.14. Ouch!
It doesn't look much better for the hitters. Hamilton is batting .481, while
Thon is hitting .458 and has seven RBI. The next highest is three. The next
best hitter is Jaha at .267 and then Vaughn, who has the team's only HR, at
.238. Another ouch. Looking at the stats, it's not hard to see why the team
is 2-5. In fact, 2-5 doesn't sound bad when you're averaging three runs/game
and giving up 6.6/game.
Still, it's early and things will undoubtedly get better. The offense should
come around, but the bullpen is a major worry. Fetters, Plesac and Austin gave
the Brewers great middle relief last year. Lloyd, Maldanado, Manzanillo,
Fetters, Austin and Orosco will have to pick up the pace for the team to be
successful. Milwaukee won a number of games last year when middle relief either
held small leads or kept small deficits in place. The starters will be okay,
the defense will be alright and the hitting will come around, but the bullpen
is a big question mark.
In other news, Nilsson and Doran were reactivated yesterday, while William
Suero was sent down and Tim McIntosh was picked up by Montreal. Today's game
with California was cancelled.
--salty
From: baseball@catch-the-fever.scd.ucar.edu (Gregg Walters)
Subject: Ryan on DL
Organization: Scientific Computing Divison/NCAR Boulder, CO
Lines: 18
Heard minutes ago on KOA radio, Denver.
Nolan Ryan to have arthroscopic on a knee, and
to miss 2 - 5 weeks.
Rockies (Nied) lead Mets (Gooden) 4 - 0 in 7th.
All runs in first inning.
Gregg            \\   baseball@ncar.ucar.edu   //
\\            /\            //
_^   \          /  \          /   ^_
_\|__/\        /    \        /\__|/_
/\___/         /      \         \___/\
| CR/        /\/   o    \/\        \CR |
|--/        /     /        \        \--|
\ \       /     //         \       / /
/ /      /     //           \      \ \
\ \     /  COLORADO ROCKIES  \     / /
From: punjabi@leland.Stanford.EDU (sanjeev punjabi)
Subject: When does Fred McGriff of the Padres become a free agent?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 1
From: traven@pitt.edu (Neal Traven)
Subject: Re: Braves Pitching UpdateDIR
Lines: 22
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Dave Naehring X2079 P7630 (ep502dn@pts.mot.com) wrote:
: In article 2482@adobe.com, snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
: >Every single piece of evidence we can find points to Major League Baseball
: >being 50% offense, 50% defense.  A run scored is just as important as a run
: >prevented.
: >
: This certainly passes the "common sense test" for me, but is there any
: statistical evidence to say what percent of defense is pitching and what
: percent is fielding?  I'd really like to know.  BTW, Sherri, thanks for
: the DA data I find it fascinating.
One of the chapters in Palmer and Thorn's 'Hidden Game' is titled
'Pitching is 44% of Baseball,' implying that fielding is 6%.  How do
they determine that?  Beats me -- it's been a long, long time since I
read it.
One also has to separate offense into batting and baserunning, with the
split probably somewhere around 49.5% and 0.5%.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
neal	traven+@pitt.edu	      You're only young once, but you can be
traven@vms.cis.pitt.edu	       immature forever.   -- Larry Andersen
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (K. Mitchell Bose)
Subject: Re: TIGERS
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 9
NNTP-Posting-Host: carina.unm.edu
*thud*
(see .sig)
--
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) * kbos@carina.unm.edu
Help cleanse R.S.B of all mindless woofing! Whenever someone at your site posts
an article with a subject of the form "MY TEAM R00LZ!!!!!!", simply look him up
in the directory, hunt him down, and beat him senseless!  Easy, fun, rewarding!
From: ragraca@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Randy A. Graca)
Subject: Sparky Anderson Gets win #2000, Tigers beat A's
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, Michigan, U.S.A.
Lines: 36
NNTP-Posting-Host: vela.acs.oakland.edu
Tigers' manager Sparky Anderson gets his 2,000th career win as moments ago,
the Tigers completed a two game sweep over the Oakland A's at Tiger Stadium
by beating the A's 3-2. Here are the highlights:
R    H   E
Oakland		2    9   0
Detroit            3    7   1
Chad Krueter scored Skeeter Barnes from 1st with an RBI double in the
bottom of the ninth against none other than Dennis Eckersley to give the
Tigers the victory.  Barnes also had an RBI single to score Thurmond to
tie the score in the ninth, also off Eckersley (sp?).
The A's got their runs on an RBI single by McGwire in the 1st and a solo
homer by Reuben Sierra in the 6th.  Deer doubled home Kirk Gibson in the
7th for the other Tiger run.
John Doherty pitched another strong game for the Tigers, once again lasting
through the seventh inning.  He was relieved by Bolton and then David Haas
in the 8th, and Haas got the win.  Bobby Witt started for the A's, and was
replaced by Honeycutt in the 6th, followed by Goose Gossage in the 8th, and
finally Eckersly in the 9th.  Doherty gave up both of the A's runs, while
Witt gave up the first Tiger run and Eckerseley gave up the last two.
In the post game interview (on WJR radio in Detroit), Sparky Anderson said
its one of the few times he's gotten emotional in his managing career.  It
was a big moment for him, and I'm sure all of us Tiger fans are unanimously
very happy for him.  And what a way to get number 2,000!.
Considering the circumstances, I think it might be appropriate to say:
WOOF!      Go Tigers!
--Randy
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Subject: Re: Jose Canseco's Swing - 1992 vs. 1986.
Distribution: na
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA
Lines: 68
In article <C5JKIK.1zF@ucdavis.edu> ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary Built Like Villanueva Huckabay) writes:
>Here's my analysis of Jose Canseco, circa Sep '92, and Jose Canseco,
>circa June 1986.
>
>1.  He's bulked up too much.  Period.  He needs to LOSE about 20 pounds,
>    not gain more bulk.
I've been saying that for at least 2 years now and even the A's conditioning
guru told Jose he was carrying too much weight and losing some would help
his back.Although I don't for one second believe Jose used steroids,his
back problems are very similar to problems alot of steroid users experience
because they are simply carrying too much weight on their frame(see Jeff
Bregel ex 49er as a textbook example), and IMHO Jose is too big for his
frame.
>2.  His bat speed has absolutely VANISHED.  Conservatively, I'd say he's
>    lost 4%-7% of his bat speed, and that's a HUGE amount of speed.
I can't imagine how to estimate bat speed, but its pretty obvious that
Jose is missing fastballs he used to hit, likely due to his back.
>3.  That open stance is KILLING him.   Note that he acts sort of like
>    Brian Downing - way open to start, then closes up as ball is
>    released.  Downing could do this without significant head movement -
>    Canseco can't.  Also, note that Canseco doesn't always close his
>    stance the same way - sometimes, his hips are open, sometimes,
>    they're fully closed.  Without a good starting point, it's hard
>    to make adjustments in your swing.
I don't know, he had an even more open stance when he first came up with
the A's, and had no problems with it then. It might be that pre-back
problems, he was quick enough to cover up any deficiencies the stance
caused, but now he's lost just enough bat speed that the stance hurts
him. The old saying if you're hot its a trigger mechanism, if you're
cold, its a hitch.
>First, minimize movement before the swing.  Close and widen the stance,
>and severely cut down the stride I take on my swing.  Hopefully, this
>will cut down on the time I need to swing, and will allow me to move
>the bathead more freely.
The biggest problem IMHO is he never has found a stance he's comfortable
with for more than a few months. He changes his stance so much, he loses
track of where the strike zone is. In Wednesday's night game, he was
clearly mad at strike calls on both corners that looked pretty good to
me. I think he no longer knows where the strike zone really is because
he's changed his stance so much.
I'm also a bit concerned that because he's got Palmer and Gonzalez hitting
all the homeruns, he'll become competitive, swing even harder and screw
himself up even worse. LaRussa always said that Canseco's famous batting
practice homer shows did him more harm than good as they encouraged
bad hitting habits.
Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"I don't know anything about X's, but I know about some O."
George Gervin on being an assistant coach
********************************************************************************
From: traven@pitt.edu (Neal Traven)
Subject: Re: The 1964 Phillies: deja vu?
Lines: 25
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Robert C Hite (philly@bach.udel.edu) wrote:
: I think most of the problems mainly arose from Manager Gene Mauch's
: ineptitude in managing the pitching staff.  Down the stretch, he
: abused Jim Bunning, Chris Short, and Robin Roberts (I think those
: are the three) pitching each on only 2 days rest for quite some
: time.  By the time they hit the last 2 weeks of the season,
: obviously none of these guys had an ounce left in their arm.  Oh
: well.
Roberts was long gone -- he was probably an Oriole in 1964.  Or maybe a
Colt .45.  The 3rd starter was Art Mahaffey, the previous year's ace.
Dennis Bennett was the 4th starter.
They were indeed 6.5 up with 12 to go, but they won their final two
games after the horrid 10-loss streak.  The final game victory
(Bunning's 19th win, if memory serves) kept the Reds from tying for the
title; they and the Phils were both 1 game behind the Cards, with the
Giants(?) another game back.  The Mets couldn't hold an early lead
against the Cards that final Sunday, or there would have been a 3-way
tie.  Too bad they couldn't have saved some of the 15 or so runs they
scored on Saturday when they crushed St. Louis.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
neal	traven+@pitt.edu	      You're only young once, but you can be
traven@vms.cis.pitt.edu	       immature forever.   -- Larry Andersen
From: Brian Austin Fraze <bf25+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: TIGERS
Organization: Freshman, H&SS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 4
NNTP-Posting-Host: po4.andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <93104.100921RK0VSANU@MIAMIU.BITNET>
I basically agree, the Tigers are my favorite team.  Actually, their
pitching might actually be better this year than last (not that htat's
saying a hole lot). How 'bout that home opener on Tuesday!! By the way,
Sparky goes for win 2,000 today.
Subject: Hal McRae
From: rbd@flash.ece.uc.edu (Bobby Davis)
Organization: University of Cincinnati
NNTP-Posting-Host: flash.ece.uc.edu
Lines: 18
DAK988S@vma.smsu.edu writes:
>No....Hal McRae is the worst manager in baseball.
I haven't seen enough Royals' games to judge his tactics, so you may have
a point here.  But:
>I've never seen a guy who can waste talent like he can.  One of the best
>raw-talent staffs in the league, and he's still finding a way to lose.
IMO, the Royals don't have a chance to win the pennant even if McRae
suddenly began channeling for John McGraw.  OK, they have some decent
pitchers.  But when your offense consists of bums like Gagne and Lind
and McReynolds and McRae and an over-the-hill Brett, you're not going
to finish .500 unless McGraw brings Christy Mathewson back with him.
I'd say it is hard to evaluate a manager when all of his hitters suck.
Bob Davis	rbd@thor.ece.uc.edu
From: VB30@lafibm.lafayette.edu (VB30)
Subject: Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: Lafayette College
Lines: 10
Originator: news@lafcol
Nntp-Posting-Host: lafibm
Just wondering.  A friend and I were talking the other day, and
we were (for some reason) trying to come up with names of Jewish
baseball players, past and present.  We weren't able to come up
with much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and
maybe John Lowenstein.  Can anyone come up with any more.  I know
it sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but
humor us.  Thanks for your help.
Thanks.
Bobby
From: sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall)
Subject: Re: WFAN
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 54
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
In article <C5JC3z.KnD@news.udel.edu> philly@ravel.udel.edu (Robert C Hite) writes:
>In article <1993Apr15.151202.3551@Virginia.EDU> jja2h@Virginia.EDU ("") writes:
>>Does any one out there listen to WFAN?  For those of you who do
>>not know what I am talking about, it is an all sports radio
>>staion in New York.  On a clear night the signal reaches up and
>>down the East coast.  In particular, I want to know how Len
>>Berman and Mike Lupica's show is.  I go to school in Virginia
>>so I can't listen when there are on during the day.  Just
>>wondering.
You're right about the signal being strong. I live in West Philadelphia,
and I can get FAN almost perfectly. It's a sports fans dream (especially
if that person is from NY and wants to hear about his teams while he's
away at school). As for Lupica & Berman, it's turned out to be Lupica,
then Berman. Neither of them wanted to work a full four hour show, so Ed
Coleman and Dave Sims' old four-hour slot was broken down into two
seperate two-hour show - Lupica from 10-12, and Berman from 12-2. And they
both happen to suck in comparison to Eddie and Dave.  COME BACK, GUYS!
>
>The FAN is an okay Sports Radio station, but doesn't come close to
>the ULTIMATE in Sports Radio, 610 WIP in Philadelphia.  The signal
>might not be as powerful, but then again only stations in New York
>feel "obligated" to pollute everyone else's airwaves with a bunch of
>hoodlum Mets fans complaining 24 hours a day.  WIP took two of your
>best sports jockeys too, Jody MacDonald and Steve Fredericks.  610
>WIP is rockin with sports talk from 5:30 AM till midnight, check it
>out anytime your within a few hours of Philadelphia.  If I'm not
>mistaken, WIP has the highest sports talk ratings in the nation?
>
Like I said, I live in Philly, so I can hear FAN and/or WIP whenever I
want. But I cannot stand WIP. And it isn't because I loathe the Philly
sports teams - the Phillies are my favorite NL team (Yanks are favorite
AL), and the Eagles aren't too bad either. There are two big problems:
1)Total emphasis on the home teams, especially the Eagles. Unlike
the FAN hosts, who can at least answer a question about an
out-of-town team if a caller asks, the WIP hosts seem
to have no clue about any team that doesn't play on
Broad Street. Also, FANs periodic sports updates (every 20
minutes) gives sports news and scores from around the
country. It's very rare to hear an out-of-town score
being reported on WIP.
2)The hosts. With the exception of Jody MacDonald, who I miss
from his days at FAN, none of the hosts really seems to have
both a broad knowledge of the sport or a good on-air presence.
The worst is Gary Cobb, who seems to have been hired solely
on the basis that he used to play for the Eagles.
Anyway, that's my two cents on the whole FAN vs WIP battle.
-Alan
From: niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gord Niguma)
Subject: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series
Nntp-Posting-Host: ug.cs.dal.ca
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Distribution: na
Lines: 22
In <C5HpCv.4HL@andy.bgsu.edu> klopfens@andy.bgsu.edu (Bruce Klopfenstein) writes:
>cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>> In article <1993Apr13.195301.22652@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>> }
>> } Guess which line is which:
>> } 	BA	OBP	SLG	AB	H	2B	3B	HR	BB
>> } X	.310	.405	.427	571	177	27	8	8	87
>> } Y	.312	.354	.455	657	205	32	1	20	35
>I just love how the Alomar fans left RBIs off this list.  Give me a break!
Alomar fans left RBI fans and Runs off this list because they are dependant
on the team. (To a large extent). If Frank Thomas hit first, he'd lose a LOT
of RBI's; and anyways how many 2nd place hitters have you known to drive
in 100 runs? Doesn't happen that often.....very unlikely with Devon White's
~.300 OBP in front of you...
Gord Niguma
(fav player: John Olerud)
From: niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gord Niguma)
Subject: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series
Nntp-Posting-Host: ug.cs.dal.ca
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Distribution: na
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In <C5HxLK.FIx@andy.bgsu.edu> klopfens@andy.bgsu.edu (Bruce Klopfenstein) writes:
>dtate+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes:
>> klopfens@andy.bgsu.edu (Bruce Klopfenstein) said:
>>>
>>>I just love how the Alomar fans left RBIs off this list.
>>
>> Of *course* they left RBIs off; we're comparing Alomar the individual with
>> Baerga the individual, so only individual stats count.
>>
>>>Give me a break!
>I forgot.  Most runs are scored by players stealing home, so RBI don't
>count for anything.
>My mistake.
Oh, oh, we all know what's going to happen now don't we!
Gord Niguma
(fav player: John Olerud)
From: pablo@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Pablo A Iglesias)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
Lines: 24
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
In article <15APR93.14691229.0062@lafibm.lafayette.edu> VB30@lafibm.lafayette.edu (VB30) writes:
>Just wondering.  A friend and I were talking the other day, and
>we were (for some reason) trying to come up with names of Jewish
>baseball players, past and present.  We weren't able to come up
>with much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and
>maybe John Lowenstein.  Can anyone come up with any more.  I know
>it sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but
>humor us.  Thanks for your help.
>
>Thanks.
>Bobby
Hank Greenberg would have to be the most famous, because his Jewish
faith actually affected his play. (missing late season or was it world
series games because of Yom Kippur)
--
Pablo Iglesias
pi@ruth.ece.jhu.edu
From: texdude@cs1.bradley.edu (Philip Allen)
Subject: Ryan rumor...
Article-I.D.: cs1.texdude.734914692
Organization: Bradley University
Lines: 12
Nntp-Posting-Host: cs1.bradley.edu
This just in...
Nolan Ryan hurt his right knee in the 4th inning of the Rangers-Orioles
game last night.  He'll be having arthoscopic surgery that will, at best,
keep him on the DL for two to five weeks.
Just when I had almost convinced myself that the Rangers' rotation would
stay healthy this year...
Phil Allen
texdude@cs1.bradley.edu
From: dan@danberg.llnl.gov (Dan Bergmann)
Subject: Need software for baseball stats
Article-I.D.: danberg.1qkq0q$8rl
Distribution: world
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
Lines: 10
NNTP-Posting-Host: danberg.llnl.gov
I'm looking for software (hopefully free and runs on Unix box) which will
keep track of statistics for my company softball team (batting avg. etc.).
If you know of any please post or respond to me by e-mail. Many thanks.
--
**************************************************
**  Dan Bergmann        dbergmann@llnl.gov      **
**************************************************
From: steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: na
Lines: 38
In <C5HpG6.4LM@andy.bgsu.edu> klopfens@andy.bgsu.edu (Bruce Klopfenstein) writes:
>kime@mongoose.torolab.ibm.com (Edward Kim) writes:
[...]
>>
>> I would tend to call the offensive contributions even, but Alomar wins hands
>> down in defensive capabilities.  I'm not just talking about the number of
>> errors; nobody (including Lind!) has the range and athleticism at second base.
>> I can't recall in the recent past anyone turning the double play better
>> than Alomar.
>Well, why don't you look up those stats?  Baerga may not be the best defensive
>second baseman in the league, but he's damn good.  Check the stats for DPs
>last year and see for yourself.
According to the Defensive Average stats posted by Sherri, Baerga had the
highest percentage of DPs turned in the league, while Alomar had the worst.
However, Alomar had a higher Defensive Average.  So who would be better?
Using Alomar's opportunities (469 groundballs, 73 possible double plays)
Alomar had 332 groundouts and turned 18 DPs.
Baerga would have had (with same DA & DP%) 328 groundouts and 35 DPs.
Using Baerga's opportunites (545 groundballs, 99 possible double plays).
Alomar would have had (with the same DA & DP%) 386 groundouts and 25 DPs.
Baerga had 381 groundouts and 47 DPs.
Baerga looks better, though it's possible his DP% would be lower with a
different SS.
Will Baerga consistently turn twice as many double plays, however?  Alomar
has established a high level of defense, Baerga has not.  I would bet on
Alomar to be better next year, but last year Baerga was just as good overall.
--
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Grad Student At Large
"It is considered good to look wise, especially when not
overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball
From: jbragg@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (James Bragg)
Subject: Re: NL Stats
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Lines: 9
Doug, those stats are great!  they help immensely.  I tried to E-Mail
you with some comments on them but my mail server does not recognize
your address.  Could you E-Mail me with some info on how to get E-Mail
to you?  Thanks!
Jim Bragg
(jbragg@morgan.ucs.mun.ca)
From: falcon@cs.mcgill.ca (Scot Hughes)
Subject: Re: I hate to mention Acker, but....
Keywords: Acker, Orioles, DoppleAckers?
Nntp-Posting-Host: binkley.cs.mcgill.ca
Organization: None
Distribution: na
Lines: 32
In article <14APR199316550695@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Bruce M Hasch) writes:
>In article <1993Apr14.193114.2328@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen) writes...
>>I feel as if I might be causing some bad karma by doing this, but I just have
>>to know......
>>
>>Is the Ack man still in organized baseball?
>
>	Glad you asked!!  The Ack-man, and nine of his relatives, are currently
>impersonating the Baltimore Orioles pitching staff.  Personally, I believe
>that the Evil Ackers kidnapped the real O's staff, and are currently in the
>process of impersonating Mussina, Sutcliffe, McDonald, Olson.
No, no no. The Ack man is apparently an alien life-form, much
like the pod people from planet Mars, who can take on any form (the
ability remains the same, however). The Ack-people have been spotted on
many teams to date, but it appears that the Orioles staff (mentioned
above) and the Expos bullpen (Barnes, Walton, Fassero, Gardiner and
Rojas) have been the prime target. Apparently John Wetteland was roughed
up by the Ack-people during spring training due to the fact that his
system rejected the takeover, and has been on the DL ever since. Contact
the authorities! This evil plot must be stopped! (the Ack-people can
keep Jack Morris and Juan Guzman, though. I enjoy watching Toronto fans
suffer too much to want these guys returned to normal ;-)
Scot.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scot Hughes        | Department of Chemical Engineering | Expos in '93!
falcon@cs.mcgill.ca| McGill University, Montreal, Quebec| {witty saying here}
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: McRae is (Re: Torre: The worst manager?)
From: scott@mccall.com (Scott D. Davis)
Reply-To: scott@mccall.com (Scott D. Davis)
Organization: The McCall Pattern Co., Manhattan, KS, USA
Nntp-Posting-Host: mis2
Nntp-Posting-User: scott
Lines: 18
In article <16BB1C589.DAK988S@vma.smsu.edu.Ext>, DAK988S@vma.smsu.edu writes:
>gt7469a@prism.gatech.EDU (Brian R. Landmann) writes:
>>Joe Torre has to be the worst manager in baseball.
>>brian, a very distressed cardinal fan.
>No....Hal McRae is the worst manager in baseball.  I've never seen a guy who
>can waste talent like he can.  One of the best raw-talent staffs in the league,
>and he's still finding a way to lose.  I'll be surprised if he makes it through
>the next 2 weeks, unless drastic improvement is made.
>
KC(?) news was doing a report on that.  They said that McRae is
really a batting coach and not a manager.  But for some reason
he took the job.  Whatever the reason, the Royals need a new
manager now...while it is too late.
--
Scott D. Davis <scott@mccall.com>       The McCall Pattern Company
(uucp: ...!widener!depot!mccall!scott)	615 McCall Road
(800)255-2762, in Kansas (913)776-4041  Manhattan, KS 66502, USA
From: edo@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Edward Ouellette)
Subject: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series
Nntp-Posting-Host: unseen1.acns.nwu.edu
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Distribution: na
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In article <8966@blue.cis.pitt.edu> dtate+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes:
>Substituting irony for brains, (Bruce Klopfenstein) said:
>
>>dtate+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate) writes:
>
>>> Of *course* they left RBIs off; we're comparing Alomar the individual with
>>> Baerga the individual, so only individual stats count.
>
>>I forgot.  Most runs are scored by players stealing home, so RBI don't
>>count for anything.
>
>Uh, right.  You also forgot that you can't get an RBI (barring a HR) with
>nobody on base.  What fraction of all runs come on solo HR?
>
>Most runs are scored because there happened to be players on base when the
>batter did something good.  I use the phrase "happened to be" advisedly.
>Lots of people have tried to figure out who the players are who have the
>most ability to "turn it up a notch" in clutch/RBI/whatever situations, and
>what they've found is that there is no evidence that *anyone* has such an
>ability to any measurable extent.  There are no clutch hitters.  People who
>tend to do things that *would* cause an RBI if there were somebody on base
>end up getting RBIs proportional to how many of their teammates obliged by
>being in position.
>
>>My mistake.
>
>I agree.
>
Me, too... RBI are a worthless stat. Of course, so is stolen bases because
sometimes runners are in front of a player that would otherwise run. And of
course pitchers pitch differently with different people on different bases,
so batting average, slugging and obp out, too.  Hmmm... i guess homers would
not count then, either.
My point? RBI might not be a perfect stat but nothing is. And no stat (or lack
of) can tell me there are no clutch hitters. Maybe no stat CAN tell me,
either, but some people are... I just know it!!! 8)
Ed O.
Subject: Phillies: A New Ballpark in Future?
From: csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby)
Expires: Sat, 1 May 1993 04:00:00 GMT
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Keywords: Phillies
Summary: Phillies
Lines: 17
ATTN: Those who live inthe Philadelphia Metro area...
Back in September I was listening to WIP, and I remember the morning
guys were talking with Mayor Ed Rendell.  The topic of conversation
was a new ball park for the Phillies.  The location for this new park
was suggested to be near 30th St Station.  At the time, the mayor was
optimisitic that in the future this could become a reality.  Has
there been any new news on this subject or is it still a pipe dream?
I know the city of Philadelphia has other projects ahead, such as the
new convention center and the upcoming Spectrum II.  But it would be
nice to see this a reality.  It is planned that the Phillies leave
the VET and leave it solely to the Eagles (and if that's the case,
the Eagles should make the VET a grass stadium, but that's another
story).  I want to see that day!
comments?
From: mse@cc.bellcore.com (25836-michael evenchick(F113))
Subject: Re: DAVE KINGMAN FOR THE HALL OF FAME
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Lines: 128
In article <1993Apr15.093231.5148@news.yale.edu>,  (Steve Tomassi) writes:
|>
|>      Hi, baseball fans! So what do you say? Don't you think he deserves it?
|> I
|>
|> mean, heck, if Dave Winfield (ho-hum) is seriously being considered for it,
|> as
|>
|> is Lee Smith (ha), then why don't we give Dave Kingman a chance? Or Darrell
|>
|> Evans! Yeah, yeah! After the Hall of Fame takes in them, it can take in
|> Eddie
|>
|> Murray and Jeff Reardon.
I am trying to think how to respond to this without involving personal feeling
or perceptions and I can not without having stats to back up my points.
However, I think you approached this the wrong way. I believe all of the
people mentioned here deserve the hall of fame more than Dave Kingman does. I
feel they were all much better players. I am not saying I fell they deserve to
go but that they would deserve it more.
IMHO
Dave Kingman - definately not. They guy only had a couple of years were he
could hit with atleast a respectable averag. The rest of his career I do not
think he was very feared by pitchers. I also do not think he did a lot for the
game. I mean really I am a Met fan - he was a Met for part of his career and I
still would not back him for the Hall of Fame.
Dave Winfield - I think so. He is feared by pitchers, he has had several
season where he hit for a respectable average and his production numbers are
(in my opinion - without stats) better than Kingman's (probably by quite a
bit). I also perceive him to be a leader, maybe not as much as some other
people but none the less a leader. I think he has made substantial
contributions to the game of baseball and to society. Examples of this are
some of the charitable things he has done (I know some of this from when he
was with the Yankees). I think he the type of player that kids can look up to
and while this is definately not the only criteria for the Hall of Fame I
think it deserves some consideration.
Lee Smith - Maybe, I would have to see his stats again but he definately would
deserve to go before the likes of Kingman.
Darrell Evans - No.
Eddie Murray - Maybe, He has had a very good career, he is a leader (although
a silent one), he is a good role model. Are the stats good enough? I am not
sure - but I would once again believe they are much better than Kingman's both
the average as well as the power numbers (but not as good as Winfield's). Just
think, Eddie did not have as much publicity for most of his great years.
Jeff Reardon - My guess is no, but it kind of depends on his numbers. Off the
top of my head I would take Lee Smith first.
|>
|>      Well, in any case, I am sick and tired (mostly sick) of everybody
|> giving
|>
|> Hall of Fame consideration to players that are by today's standards,
|> marginal.
|>
|> Honestly, Ozzie Smith and Robin Yount don't belong there. They're both
|>
|> shortstops that just hung around for a long time. Big deal.
|>
Well, I strongly disagree here. Both of these guys deserve it for sure. I
talked about leadership above, both of these guys are leaders and have been
instumental in leading their teams to the post season. Robin does have very
good offensive numbers both average and power and Ozzie has okay numbers
offensively. The difference with Ozzie is that if you gave him a home run for
every run he saved by making an incredible play at shortstop - he would have
shattered Aaron's home run mark by now. How many of those great plays saved
games? How many of those great plays motivated his team to rally and win a
game? While I believe both of these guys have numbers, baseball is about more
than numbers (or at least winning at baseball is about more than numbers).
Both of these guys are proven stars and belong in the Hall of Fame. As does
George Brett who also belongs in this class of player.
|>      Let's be a little more selective, huh? Stop handing out these honors
|> so
|>
|> liberally. Save them for the guys who really deserve it. Face it, if
|> something
|>
|> isn't done, there will be little prestige in the Hall of Fame anymore. When
|>
|> certain individuals believe that Steve Garvey or Jack Morris are potential
|>
|> candidates, the absurdity is apparent. Gee, can these guys even compare to
|>
|> the more likely future Hall of Famers like Kirby Puckett or Nolan Ryan?
|>
Steve Garvey - I am not sure, probably not but I guess I could see someone
making a case for him.
Jack Morris - Once again not my first choice but I can see why someone might
bring up his name.
Kirby Puckett - Probably. The only reason I do not say definately is he still
has time left in his career. If he continues doing what he has been then my
probably will turn into a definately.
Nolan Ryan - Is there really any doubt? I think I heard something about him
having some 53 records (maybe they were not all good - I don't know I did not
hear any of them just the number). He has the numbers, he has the
contributions to the game and community and he is a great role model. I would
not say that he is the best pitcher to ever pitch the game (probably not even
top 20) but he would be the first pitcher I would put in the Hall of Fame
because of his accomplishments (no-hitters, strikeouts, respectable numbers -
even with some weaker teams) you can go on and on. I really hope he gets ALL
the possible votes.
So in summing up I have 3 groups, those that belong, those that probably do
but I am not sure and those that I lean towards saying don't belong at least
not without my seeing stats and possibly hearing reasons why they should go.
Yes -  Winfield, Yount, Brett(not in your mail), O. Smith, Puckett and Ryan
Maybe - Murray and L. Smith
No - Reardon, Garvey, Morris, Evans and definately Kingman
As I said I do not have the stats around so I do not have numbers to back this
up - these are entirely my opinions based on my perceptions.
Mike
|>
|>                                  Q Steve
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Distribution: na
Lines: 41
In article <1993Apr14.081214.3921@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>>>>second basemen in history. He probably didn't even have as good a season as
>>>>>Alomar last year.
>>>
>>>Guess which line is which:
>>>	BA	OBP	SLG	AB	H	2B	3B	HR	BB
>>>X	.310	.405	.427	571	177	27	8	8	87
>>>Y	.312	.354	.455	657	205	32	1	20	35
>>
>>>The walks should give it away.  OBP's, in general, somewhat more valuable than
>>>slugging, and Alomar's edge in OBP was quite a bit larger than Baerga's edge
>>>in slugging.
>>
>>I'm no SDCN, but what's more valuable:
>>
>>28 hits w/5 more doubles, 12 more HRs   OR
>>7 more triples and 52 BBs?  (Let's not forget the 39 extra SBs. How many CS?)
>
>Of course the 28 hits and 12 homers are more valuable.
>
>But don't forget the 58 outs.  You can't have it both ways; Baerga's higher
>raw numbers are due to him having more playing time, and thus he had more
>hits and homers, but don't forget the cost of those outs.
>
>(BTW, just to answer your question, Alomar had 49 SB and 9 CS; Baerga had
>10 SB and 2 CS, which gives a minute plus on Alomar's side.)
Something else to consider:
Alomar's H-R splits were .500-.363 SLG, .444-.369 OBP! Baerga's was .486-.424
and .392-.318. Pretty clearly, Alomar got a HUGE boost from his home park.
I'd say you could make a good for them being about equal right now. T&P
rated Baerga higher, actually.
Mike
--
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  ^X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^vi  man vi ^@  ^L  ^[c  ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help  helpquit ^D  ^d !!
man help ^C ^c :e! help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does Stop L1A d..."
From: schmke@cco.caltech.edu (Kevin Todd Schmidt)
Subject: AL OPI through first week+
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Lines: 186
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu
Here is the OPI (Offensive Production Index) for all AL players with at
least 10 at bats.
It is early in the season so there are some very high numbers.  Last years
leader was Frank Thomas at 0.682.
Teams are denoted by an * as the first character of the name and each
player has his team preceeding his name.
The equations used are found at the end of the post.
Comments and suggestions are welcome.
Kevin
League OPI: 0.448
League BA:  0.268
League SLG: 0.405
League OBA: 0.341
Rank Player                 OPI     BA    SLG    OBA
-----------------------------------------------------
1    Tor,carter            2.142  0.583  1.417  0.615
2    Cle,baerga            1.432  0.520  1.040  0.538
3    Det,phillips          1.334  0.565  0.609  0.655
4    Oak,mcgwire           1.147  0.364  0.636  0.632
5    Tor,white             1.065  0.500  0.650  0.545
6    Bal,anderson          0.951  0.423  0.692  0.500
7    NYY,owen              0.934  0.500  0.577  0.567
8    Oak,rhenderson        0.911  0.391  0.565  0.533
9    Mil,thon              0.804  0.476  0.619  0.476
10   Oak,browne            0.800  0.476  0.476  0.522
11   Tex,palmer            0.781  0.333  0.875  0.333
11   Det,gibson            0.781  0.312  0.562  0.500
13   Cle,howard            0.755  0.455  0.727  0.455
14   NYY,tartabull         0.742  0.296  0.667  0.424
15   Tex,rodriguez         0.736  0.429  0.500  0.529
15   Tex,gonzalez          0.736  0.261  0.913  0.292
17   Bos,zupcic            0.728  0.400  0.500  0.455
18   Sea,felder            0.723  0.357  0.429  0.471
19   Oak,blankenship       0.722  0.333  0.333  0.524
20   Min,puckett           0.717  0.280  0.720  0.379
21   NYY,oneill            0.710  0.435  0.609  0.458
22   Cle,belle             0.703  0.348  0.696  0.375
23   Sea,buhner            0.699  0.294  0.471  0.478
24   Mil,hamilton          0.682  0.458  0.458  0.500
25   Det,whitaker          0.680  0.312  0.500  0.421
26   Det,fielder           0.666  0.273  0.591  0.407
27   Tor,sprague           0.649  0.300  0.750  0.300
28   Whi,cora              0.646  0.350  0.500  0.458
29   Whi,raines            0.641  0.250  0.750  0.308
30   NYY,kelly             0.625  0.348  0.565  0.375
31   Bos,quintana          0.617  0.455  0.455  0.455
32   Sea,tmartinez         0.612  0.211  0.632  0.348
32   Cal,gonzales          0.612  0.250  0.250  0.478
34   Whi,burks             0.609  0.348  0.565  0.375
35   Cal,snow              0.602  0.368  0.526  0.400
36   Whi,karkovice         0.598  0.167  0.417  0.412
37   *Cleveland            0.595  0.340  0.549  0.377
38   Cle,sorrento          0.594  0.273  0.727  0.273
39   Sea,amaral            0.587  0.368  0.579  0.429
39   Bos,cooper            0.587  0.375  0.458  0.423
41   Min,winfield          0.578  0.292  0.667  0.292
42   Cal,curtis            0.571  0.333  0.381  0.417
43   Bos,mvaughn           0.566  0.316  0.526  0.350
44   Oak,steinbach         0.556  0.333  0.542  0.385
45   *Oakland              0.555  0.298  0.439  0.406
46   NYY,maas              0.547  0.333  0.389  0.429
47   Kan,joyner            0.546  0.300  0.400  0.417
48   Min,knoblauch         0.535  0.304  0.348  0.448
49   Bos,greenwell         0.534  0.261  0.478  0.370
50   Oak,brosius           0.532  0.273  0.545  0.333
51   Tor,olerud            0.530  0.333  0.400  0.412
52   Bal,mercedes          0.529  0.286  0.429  0.412
53   *NYYankees            0.527  0.321  0.468  0.377
54   Bal,hoiles            0.525  0.263  0.526  0.333
55   Mil,kmak              0.523  0.286  0.286  0.412
56   Oak,dhenderson        0.517  0.231  0.462  0.412
57   Cle,lofton            0.515  0.346  0.385  0.370
58   Min,larkin            0.514  0.357  0.500  0.400
59   Bos,dawson            0.504  0.333  0.458  0.360
60   Cle,camartinez        0.503  0.333  0.389  0.400
61   Det,gladden           0.498  0.312  0.500  0.312
62   Cal,polonia           0.494  0.292  0.500  0.320
63   *California           0.487  0.295  0.404  0.364
64   *Detroit              0.484  0.260  0.410  0.357
65   Det,tettleton         0.475  0.211  0.421  0.348
66   Cal,disarcina         0.473  0.304  0.478  0.304
67   Cal,easley            0.472  0.304  0.435  0.333
68   Bal,baines            0.470  0.300  0.400  0.364
69   Tex,franco            0.469  0.300  0.350  0.391
70   Whi,ljohnson          0.464  0.280  0.400  0.333
71   Sea,vizquel           0.463  0.222  0.222  0.417
72   NYY,bwilliams         0.461  0.294  0.471  0.314
73   Mil,gvaughn           0.460  0.222  0.389  0.391
74   Min,hrbek             0.458  0.240  0.360  0.367
75   Bal,cripken           0.451  0.333  0.407  0.379
75   *Seattle              0.451  0.237  0.367  0.361
77   Cal,salmon            0.448  0.267  0.267  0.450
78   Kan,mcreynolds        0.447  0.182  0.500  0.280
79   *Toronto              0.443  0.261  0.430  0.318
79   *Texas                0.443  0.237  0.489  0.289
81   Min,pagliarulo        0.439  0.286  0.429  0.333
82   *WhiteSox             0.432  0.243  0.378  0.336
83   Kan,hiatt             0.431  0.278  0.500  0.316
84   Whi,guillen           0.426  0.263  0.263  0.364
85   Whi,thomas            0.419  0.259  0.333  0.355
86   Kan,mcrae             0.414  0.296  0.333  0.345
87   *Boston               0.411  0.270  0.365  0.336
88   Cle,hill              0.410  0.300  0.500  0.300
89   NYY,mattingly         0.400  0.324  0.353  0.343
90   *Baltimore            0.394  0.251  0.361  0.315
91   Bal,gomez             0.382  0.316  0.316  0.350
91   *Minnesota            0.382  0.237  0.379  0.298
93   Whi,fisk              0.381  0.273  0.545  0.273
94   Cle,jefferson         0.379  0.263  0.316  0.333
95   Oak,neel              0.370  0.188  0.500  0.188
96   Cal,cdavis            0.369  0.211  0.421  0.250
97   Bos,fletcher          0.364  0.217  0.391  0.280
98   *Milwaukee            0.361  0.257  0.293  0.333
99   Det,livingstone       0.360  0.250  0.438  0.294
100  Tor,ralomar           0.354  0.263  0.316  0.333
101  *KansasCity           0.343  0.236  0.327  0.291
102  Oak,bordick           0.339  0.200  0.250  0.304
103  Tex,canseco           0.337  0.190  0.381  0.261
104  Sea,valle             0.336  0.250  0.312  0.294
105  Bal,devereaux         0.329  0.207  0.379  0.233
106  Kan,lind              0.323  0.188  0.438  0.188
107  Mil,surhoff           0.312  0.227  0.273  0.292
107  Kan,brett             0.312  0.259  0.296  0.286
109  Whi,bell              0.310  0.207  0.310  0.258
110  Cle,salomar           0.306  0.200  0.200  0.304
111  Mil,jaha              0.304  0.267  0.267  0.353
111  Det,fryman            0.304  0.185  0.296  0.214
113  NYY,boggs             0.296  0.200  0.233  0.294
114  Tex,bripken           0.290  0.250  0.333  0.308
115  Min,mack              0.289  0.233  0.333  0.258
116  Min,harper            0.288  0.280  0.280  0.280
117  Cle,fermin            0.284  0.200  0.200  0.304
118  Bos,rivera            0.276  0.118  0.176  0.286
119  Mil,spiers            0.275  0.231  0.231  0.286
120  Mil,yount             0.268  0.208  0.208  0.269
121  Tor,schofield         0.265  0.133  0.267  0.235
121  Tex,hulse             0.265  0.154  0.308  0.214
123  Sea,griffey           0.261  0.105  0.263  0.261
124  Sea,obrien            0.259  0.100  0.100  0.308
124  Kan,macfarlane        0.259  0.273  0.273  0.333
126  Oak,sierra            0.256  0.200  0.240  0.231
127  Kan,jose              0.254  0.167  0.167  0.286
128  Bos,hatcher           0.252  0.188  0.188  0.278
129  Sea,blowers           0.251  0.200  0.200  0.273
130  Whi,ventura           0.247  0.167  0.167  0.310
130  Tex,palmeiro          0.247  0.130  0.261  0.167
132  Bal,reynolds          0.227  0.118  0.118  0.250
133  Kan,mayne             0.222  0.231  0.231  0.231
133  Cal,myers             0.222  0.231  0.231  0.231
135  NYY,nokes             0.219  0.150  0.300  0.150
136  Bos,calderon          0.209  0.167  0.167  0.286
137  Bos,pena              0.207  0.267  0.267  0.267
138  Tor,molitor           0.194  0.150  0.200  0.190
139  Det,deer              0.182  0.125  0.167  0.192
140  Det,cuyler            0.179  0.077  0.154  0.143
141  Tor,borders           0.159  0.111  0.167  0.158
142  Whi,grebeck           0.141  0.100  0.100  0.182
143  Bal,gdavis            0.137  0.111  0.148  0.143
144  Tex,dascenzo          0.128  0.091  0.182  0.091
145  Min,leius             0.115  0.083  0.083  0.154
145  Mil,reimer            0.115  0.083  0.083  0.154
147  Tor,djackson          0.114  0.133  0.133  0.133
148  Tex,gill              0.070  0.059  0.059  0.158
149  Kan,gagne             0.042  0.095  0.095  0.095
0.74*1B + 1.28*2B + 1.64*3B + 2.25*HR + 0.53*BB + 0.34*(SB-2*CS)
OPI = ----------------------------------------------------------------
AB - H
BA = H / AB
SLG = (H + 2B + 2*3B + 3*HR) / AB
OBA = (H + BB) / (AB + BB)
--
Jet Propulsion Laboratory | schmke@cco.caltech.edu
4800 Oak Grove Dr.        | schmidt@spc5.jpl.nasa.gov
M/S 525-3684              |
Pasadena, CA  91109       |
From: schmke@cco.caltech.edu (Kevin Todd Schmidt)
Subject: NL OPI through first week+
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Lines: 184
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu
Here is the OPI (Offensive Production Index) for all NL players with at
least 10 at-bats.
It is early in the season so there are some high numbers.  Barry Bonds
finished last season at 0.795.
I welcome comments and suggestions.
Kevin
League OPI: 0.410
League BA:  0.252
League SLG: 0.375
League OBA: 0.321
Rank Player                 OPI     BA    SLG    OBA
-----------------------------------------------------
1    Phi,daulton           1.101  0.333  0.875  0.515
2    Phi,kruk              1.069  0.429  0.821  0.529
3    Cub,grace             1.007  0.452  0.742  0.514
4    Cub,may               0.931  0.389  0.889  0.421
5    Col,boston            0.888  0.545  0.545  0.545
6    Pit,bell              0.873  0.429  0.714  0.467
7    Col,galarraga         0.867  0.458  0.708  0.458
8    StL,pena              0.833  0.400  0.600  0.516
9    StL,zeile             0.811  0.440  0.560  0.500
10   Cin,mitchell          0.810  0.429  0.643  0.467
11   Mon,lansing           0.792  0.419  0.677  0.438
12   Pit,slaught           0.754  0.474  0.526  0.474
13   Mon,vanderwal         0.746  0.389  0.556  0.476
14   NYM,tfernandez        0.709  0.300  0.400  0.500
15   SnF,martinez          0.697  0.300  0.400  0.500
16   Hou,bagwell           0.695  0.367  0.567  0.424
17   Col,hayes             0.686  0.333  0.667  0.364
18   Col,eyoung            0.682  0.333  0.500  0.407
19   Mon,alou              0.675  0.371  0.600  0.389
20   Cin,milligan          0.659  0.333  0.375  0.515
21   Phi,dykstra           0.646  0.214  0.571  0.405
22   SnF,bonds             0.624  0.280  0.680  0.333
22   Flo,conine            0.624  0.393  0.393  0.469
24   SnD,plantier          0.603  0.286  0.571  0.375
25   Hou,gonzalez          0.596  0.296  0.667  0.296
26   Hou,anthony           0.594  0.320  0.480  0.414
27   Col,cole              0.579  0.318  0.409  0.400
28   Atl,sanders           0.576  0.357  0.643  0.357
29   Mon,berry             0.566  0.273  0.273  0.500
30   Cub,sosa              0.558  0.303  0.545  0.343
31   StL,jefferies         0.551  0.269  0.692  0.296
32   Pit,vanslyke          0.549  0.296  0.444  0.387
33   *Montreal             0.548  0.312  0.490  0.367
34   Los,butler            0.545  0.296  0.333  0.457
35   Mon,grissom           0.542  0.333  0.455  0.371
36   Pit,king              0.536  0.308  0.346  0.438
37   SnD,gwynn             0.533  0.280  0.400  0.379
38   Pit,merced            0.532  0.300  0.400  0.391
39   NYM,murray            0.521  0.308  0.462  0.357
40   StL,gilkey            0.514  0.312  0.438  0.353
41   NYM,bonilla           0.507  0.292  0.417  0.370
42   SnD,walters           0.501  0.300  0.500  0.333
43   Cub,wilson            0.497  0.323  0.452  0.344
44   Flo,weiss             0.492  0.261  0.348  0.433
45   *Philadelphia         0.487  0.243  0.431  0.348
46   Atl,justice           0.480  0.207  0.448  0.361
47   *Pittsburgh           0.479  0.292  0.428  0.351
48   StL,osmith            0.476  0.310  0.448  0.355
49   Phi,incaviglia        0.473  0.250  0.500  0.308
50   Pit,young             0.470  0.286  0.500  0.310
51   *StLouis              0.467  0.275  0.445  0.344
52   *Colorado             0.459  0.287  0.426  0.327
53   NYM,hundley           0.458  0.300  0.450  0.333
54   NYM,orsulak           0.454  0.357  0.429  0.400
55   SnF,benjamin          0.440  0.200  0.500  0.273
56   Atl,gant              0.438  0.214  0.464  0.333
56   *NYMets               0.438  0.261  0.345  0.356
58   *Houston              0.436  0.260  0.415  0.318
59   Mon,pitcher           0.434  0.312  0.375  0.353
60   Phi,morandini         0.433  0.240  0.360  0.321
61   Hou,cedeno            0.427  0.280  0.440  0.308
62   Cin,sabo              0.423  0.226  0.452  0.273
63   SnF,manwaring         0.413  0.261  0.435  0.292
64   *SnFrancisco          0.412  0.253  0.396  0.315
65   Atl,blauser           0.409  0.276  0.310  0.364
66   SnF,thompson          0.408  0.278  0.389  0.316
66   Hou,caminiti          0.408  0.259  0.481  0.286
68   Flo,barberie          0.405  0.267  0.267  0.371
69   Mon,cordero           0.400  0.276  0.345  0.323
70   SnD,sheffield         0.397  0.241  0.448  0.267
71   Los,karros            0.392  0.259  0.296  0.355
72   SnF,williams          0.391  0.226  0.452  0.250
72   SnD,mcgriff           0.391  0.192  0.385  0.276
74   Flo,destrade          0.390  0.267  0.333  0.333
75   Col,girardi           0.388  0.238  0.381  0.304
76   Atl,bream             0.386  0.182  0.409  0.250
77   Mon,wood              0.385  0.200  0.300  0.333
78   Flo,santiago          0.384  0.200  0.360  0.286
79   Phi,thompson          0.383  0.227  0.273  0.320
80   SnF,clayton           0.382  0.345  0.379  0.345
80   Los,piazza            0.382  0.304  0.391  0.333
82   SnD,bell              0.378  0.273  0.364  0.304
83   Los,wallach           0.374  0.200  0.400  0.273
84   Cin,larkin            0.367  0.281  0.281  0.361
85   Pit,garcia            0.366  0.273  0.318  0.304
85   *Cincinnati           0.366  0.256  0.319  0.326
87   NYM,coleman           0.363  0.259  0.259  0.310
88   NYM,kent              0.362  0.190  0.286  0.320
89   StL,whiten            0.361  0.240  0.360  0.321
90   Cin,roberts           0.359  0.278  0.278  0.333
90   *Cubs                 0.359  0.236  0.366  0.277
92   SnF,lewis             0.354  0.227  0.364  0.261
92   Hou,finley            0.354  0.214  0.250  0.312
92   Col,clark             0.354  0.250  0.350  0.286
95   Los,pitcher           0.350  0.286  0.357  0.286
95   *SnDiego              0.350  0.219  0.357  0.268
97   Atl,lemke             0.345  0.200  0.240  0.333
98   *LosAngeles           0.339  0.221  0.275  0.311
99   SnF,mcgee             0.335  0.267  0.300  0.333
99   *Atlanta              0.335  0.199  0.308  0.287
101  Cin,sanders           0.334  0.267  0.333  0.290
101  Cin,oliver            0.334  0.208  0.208  0.345
103  SnD,gardner           0.332  0.238  0.333  0.273
103  Los,reed              0.332  0.276  0.276  0.323
105  Phi,hollins           0.327  0.226  0.290  0.294
106  *Florida              0.326  0.226  0.268  0.311
107  Los,davis             0.325  0.188  0.219  0.278
108  Atl,pendleton         0.322  0.212  0.273  0.297
109  SnF,clark             0.316  0.161  0.290  0.257
110  Los,strawberry        0.314  0.111  0.185  0.314
110  Hou,biggio            0.314  0.179  0.214  0.303
112  Phi,bell              0.304  0.182  0.364  0.217
113  Flo,magadan           0.303  0.182  0.182  0.357
114  StL,pagnozzi          0.299  0.158  0.316  0.238
115  Pit,martin            0.295  0.167  0.417  0.167
115  Col,bichette          0.295  0.222  0.389  0.222
117  Hou,taubensee         0.294  0.190  0.333  0.227
118  Mon,bolick            0.292  0.250  0.312  0.250
119  Flo,pose              0.291  0.258  0.323  0.303
120  Mon,cianfrocco        0.287  0.188  0.375  0.188
121  NYM,johnson           0.274  0.136  0.136  0.296
122  Cin,kelly             0.272  0.250  0.333  0.270
123  Atl,nixon             0.256  0.185  0.222  0.241
124  NYM,pitcher           0.255  0.167  0.250  0.231
125  Pit,pitcher           0.250  0.222  0.278  0.222
126  Cub,buechle           0.231  0.154  0.192  0.241
127  StL,lankford          0.225  0.133  0.133  0.316
128  Atl,olson             0.224  0.150  0.150  0.261
129  Cub,vizcaino          0.217  0.148  0.259  0.179
130  Cub,sanchez           0.212  0.188  0.219  0.212
131  Phi,duncan            0.202  0.214  0.214  0.214
132  Los,offerman          0.198  0.182  0.182  0.250
133  SnF,pitcher           0.197  0.176  0.235  0.176
134  Mon,laker             0.183  0.133  0.267  0.133
135  Phi,chamberlain       0.180  0.111  0.111  0.200
136  SnD,pitcher           0.164  0.182  0.182  0.182
136  Atl,pitcher           0.164  0.182  0.182  0.182
138  Phi,pitcher           0.159  0.111  0.167  0.158
139  Cub,maldonado         0.150  0.105  0.158  0.150
140  Flo,felix             0.148  0.172  0.207  0.172
141  Cin,espy              0.141  0.100  0.100  0.182
142  StL,jordan            0.140  0.105  0.211  0.105
143  Atl,berryhill         0.128  0.091  0.182  0.091
144  Cub,pitcher           0.126  0.111  0.111  0.158
145  SnD,shipley           0.122  0.087  0.174  0.087
146  StL,pitcher           0.106  0.125  0.125  0.125
147  Hou,pitcher           0.053  0.067  0.067  0.067
147  Col,benavides         0.053  0.067  0.067  0.067
147  Cin,pitcher           0.053  0.067  0.067  0.067
150  Cub,wilkins           0.038  0.000  0.000  0.067
151  Flo,pitcher           0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000
151  Col,pitcher           0.000  0.000  0.000  0.000
0.74*1B + 1.28*2B + 1.64*3B + 2.25*HR + 0.53*BB + 0.34*(SB-2*CS)
OPI = ----------------------------------------------------------------
AB - H
BA = H / AB
SLG = (H + 2B + 2*3B + 3*HR) / AB
OBA = (H + BB) / (AB + BB)
--
Jet Propulsion Laboratory | schmke@cco.caltech.edu
4800 Oak Grove Dr.        | schmidt@spc5.jpl.nasa.gov
M/S 525-3684              |
Pasadena, CA  91109       |
From: antond@microsoft.com (Anton Dejong)
Subject: Re: Oakland Oaks Memorabilia
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Distribution: usa
Lines: 13
>There is Ebbets Field Flannels in Seattle, which makes lots of minor and negro
>league jackets and jerseys. These things are REAL spendy (around $200 for a
>jersey) but they are very authentic in look and nicely made.
>
>--->Paul, "long live Steve Bilko and the PCL LA Angels"
Their phone number is 1-800-377-9777. The last catalog shows three
Oaks jerseys: 36 Home, 42 Home, 39 Home - they're each $165.00.  All their
merchandise is handmade and is an authentic replica.  I own a couple -
and they are excellent. They also have wool caps and jackets.  You should
call to get on their mailing list even if you can't afford their prices.
Anton
From: cs1442aq@news.uta.edu (cs1442aq)
Subject: Ryam out for 2-5 weeks!!
Organization: University of Texas at Arlington
Lines: 4
Nolan Ryan has torn cartlidge inhis right knee.  Is having surgery and
is expected to miss 2-5 weeks.
--
From: steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Defensive Averages 1988-1992, Third Base
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Lines: 122
In <C5JJrJ.EM3@cs.uiuc.edu> steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>Compiled from the last five Defensive Average reports, here are the career
>DAs for the individual players in the reports.  Stats are courtesy of
>Sherri Nichols.  Players are listed in descending order.
And some comments, with some players deleted.
>Third Basemen
>-------------
>Name                 1988  1989  1990  1991  1992   88-92
>Mitchell, Kevin      .690  ----  ----  ----  ----   0.690
Yep, that Kevin Mitchell.  I never would have expected him in the
#1 spot.
>Gonzales, Rene       .685  ----  ----  ----  ----   0.685
It's no accident that the first two names are 1988 only.  As with first
and second base, 1988 was the year of the glove.  Average DA was 20 points
higher in both leagues than any other year.
>Leius, Scott         ----  ----  ----  .653  .680   0.672
Looks good.  Too bad he's moving to short.
>Pendleton, Terry     .692  .685  .631  .689  .634   0.667
Highest five-year regular, though he's only had one year as good as Kevin
Mitchell :->.
>Ventura, Robin       ----  ----  .641  .647  .677   0.657
>Wallach, Tim         .728  .674  .600  .630  .665   0.657
>Gruber, Kelly        .717  .657  .580  .630  .664   0.650
The other elite fielders in the league.
>Pagliarulo, Mike     .631  ----  .575  .744  ----   0.649
This is an interesting line.  His 1988 figure was slightly below average.
His 1990 was pathetic, and his 1991 was the next best year by anybody.  Part of
that may be his mobility.  1988 was with the Yankees.  1990 was with the
Padres, who appear to have a rotten infield.  1991 was with the Twins, and
judging by Leius and Gaetti, the Metrodome may be a good place to play
third.
>Williams, Matt       ----  ----  .633  .653  .656   0.647
Add another to the elite fielders list.
>Caminiti, Ken        ----  .675  .630  .653  .596   0.642
>Sabo, Chris          .751  .626  .616  .613  .575   0.642
Too fielders whose career average may overstate their value.  I don't know
what happened to Caminiti -- judging by the three previous years, his low
1992 may be a fluke.  Sabo is merely average, however.  His incredible 1988
(best year ever) brings his average up a lot.
>Buechele, Steve      .647  .616  .647  .681  .599   0.635
Strange last two years.
>Schmidt, Mike        .628  ----  ----  ----  ----   0.628
According to reputation, one of the best fielders ever at third base.
But at the end, he was below average.  (Average in 1988 was .643).
>Boggs, Wade          .643  .659  .550  .653  .634   0.626
Boggs has been pretty good.  I don't know what happened in 1990, but every
other year he has been above average, usually by quite a bit.
>Martinez, Egdar      ----  ----  .621  .645  .599   0.624
Last year -- a fluke or a portent?
>*NL Average*         .643  .625  .602  .623  .603   0.619
>Seitzer, Kevin       .654  .583  .593  ----  .635   0.616
>*AL Average*         .641  .612  .604  .620  .602   0.615
Why is it that the two leagues usually have defensive averages very close
to one another, but very different from year to year?  Any ideas?
>Jacoby, Brook        .624  .621  .600  ----  .597   0.613
Brook  is declining.
>Hansen, Dave         ----  ----  ----  ----  .611   0.611
>Magadan, Dave        ----  ----  ----  ----  .609   0.609
>Jefferies, Greg      ----  ----  ----  ----  .606   0.606
Three first-time regulars, above average in 1992.  I'm not sure why Jefferies
gets all the grief about his fielding.  He's never had a good year, but while
at second he improved to become an average fielder, and is an average fielder
at third.
>Zeile, Todd          ----  ----  ----  .614  .593   0.605
Zeile, on the other hand, is a below average fielder.  Each year he's about
10 points below average.  And it's probably not just the park, since Terry
Pendleton had excellent DAs in the three years before this.
>Baerga, Carlos       ----  ----  ----  .604  ----   0.604
Moving back to second was a good idea.
>Hayes, Chris         ----  .601  .622  .606  .574   0.602
So why is Hayes supposed to be good defensively?  He's had a grand total
of one year above the league DA, and was pretty bad last year.
>Johnson, Howard      .628  .549  .611  .573  ----   0.588
>Lansford, Carney     .620  .578  .594  ----  .550   0.587
Howard Johnson and Carney Lansford -- separated at birth.  To his credit,
HoJo did have one above average year (1990).  Lansford couldn't even break
the .600 mark without the help of the year of the glove.
>Hollins, Dave        ----  ----  ----  ----  .577   0.577
Good hitter, but his fielding needs work.
>Sheffield, Gary      ----  ----  .584  ----  .567   0.575
Not a good fielder.
>Blauser, Jeff        ----  .573  ----  ----  ----   0.573
>Fryman, Travis       ----  ----  ----  .571  ----   0.571
Both are better off at shortstop.
>Gomez, Lee           ----  ----  ----  .551  .542   0.546
Two consecutive horrible years for Leo.  Camden Yards doesn't seem to
have helped his fielding any.
>Palmer, Dean         ----  ----  ----  ----  .520   0.520
Texas slugger debuts with not only the lowest career DA, but the lowest
DA at third ever.  Congratulations, Dean.
--
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Grad Student At Large
"It is considered good to look wise, especially when not
overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball
From: mjones@fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Mike Jones)
Subject: Two stooges
Reply-To: mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
Organization: IBM AIX/ESA Development, Kingston NY
Lines: 9
Well, the Red Sox have apparenly resigned Herm Winningham to a AAA contract.
Ted "Larry" Simmons signed him to a AAA contract then released him from
Buffalo, allowing Lou "Curly" Gorman to circumvent the rule about not
resigning free agents until May 1. Clearly, neither of these guys is bright
enough to be Moe.
Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
Make it right before you make it faster.
From: reeve@steam.Xylogics.COM (Scott Reeve)
Subject: Re: Yankee fears.
Nntp-Posting-Host: steam.xylogics.com
Reply-To: reeve@steam.Xylogics.COM (Scott Reeve)
Organization: Xylogics, Inc. Burlington, MA, USA 01810
Lines: 1
Rawley Eastwick
From: niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gord Niguma)
Subject: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series
Nntp-Posting-Host: ug.cs.dal.ca
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Distribution: na
Lines: 38
In <1993Apr15.123803.4618@webo.dg.com> lyford@dagny.webo.dg.com (Lyford Beverage) writes:
>In article <1993Apr13.202037.9485@cs.cornell.edu>, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>|> In article <rudyC5Fr3q.1CL@netcom.com> rudy@netcom.com (Rudy Wade) writes:
>|> >In article <C5FMxD.2pM@cs.dal.ca> niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gord Niguma) writes:
>|> >>reference to history because he certainly didn't have the best season for
>|> >>second basemen in history. He probably didn't even have as good a season as
>|> >>Alomar last year.
>|> >
>|> >What?  Do you have some measure (like popularity in Toronto doesn't count)
>|> >that you are basing this statement on?
>|>
>|> Uh, yes.  Baerga has a lot of flash, but Alomar was the better hitter
>|> last year.
>|>
>|> BATTERS        BA   SLG   OBP   G  AB   R   H  TB 2B 3B HR RBI  BB  SO SB CS  E
>|> BAERGA,C     .312  .455  .354 161 657  92 205 299 32  1 20 105  35  76 10  2 19
>|> ALOMAR,R     .310  .427  .405 152 571 105 177 244 27  8  8  76  87  52 49  9  5
>|>
>This is fascinating.  You say that Alomar was the better hitter last
>year, and immediately follow that up with numbers showing that Baerga
>had a better year.  The only category that I see which shows an advantage
>for Alomar is OBP
Hmmm...what about walks and SB? Baerga got clobbered by Alomar in OBP and
beat him in SLG by a lesser margin. Even putting aside any other factors,
a player with a 51 point edge in OBP is more productive than a player with
a 28 point edge in SLG. The issue has been studied before, and I doubt you
could come up with any convincing argument the other way.
People see the batting average and the HR, but they don't really know
their value is worth unless they've studied the issue closely. The fact is that
Baerga ate up a LOT more outs than Alomar; while Baerga was making outs,
Alomar was drawing walks and being on base for Carter, Winfield et.al.
Gord Niguma
(fav player: John Olerud)
From: bratt@crchh7a9.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (John Bratt)
Subject: Sandberg, Runs, RBIs (was: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series)
Distribution: na
Nntp-Posting-Host: crchh7a9
Organization: Bell Northern Research -- Dallas TX
Lines: 26
In article <C5JM0M.6Jw@cs.dal.ca>, niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gord Niguma) writes:
|>
|>   Alomar fans left RBI fans and Runs off this list because they are dependant
|> on the team. (To a large extent). If Frank Thomas hit first, he'd lose a LOT
|> of RBI's; and anyways how many 2nd place hitters have you known to drive
|> in 100 runs? Doesn't happen that often.....very unlikely with Devon White's
|> ~.300 OBP in front of you...
I'm pretty sure that Sandberg has done this at least once.  (I know someone
will correct me if I'm wrong.)
RBIs and Runs scored are the two most important offensive statistics.  You
can talk about OBP and SLG% all you want, but the fact remains:
The team that scores more runs wins the game!
---------------------------------------------
Flame Away
-- John Bratt
|>
|> 						Gord Niguma
|> 						(fav player: John Olerud)
|>
From: sbp002@acad.drake.edu
Subject: Re: Torre: The worst manager?
Lines: 26
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad.drake.edu
Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA
In article <93095@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt7469a@prism.gatech.EDU (Brian R. Landmann) writes:
> Joe Torre has to be the worst manager in baseball.
>
> For anyone who didn't see Sunday's game,
>
> With a right hander pitching he decides to bench Lankform, a left handed
> hitter and play jordan and gilkey, both right handers.
>
> Later, in the ninth inning with the bases loaded and two outs he puts
> lankford, a 300 hitter with power in as a pinch runner and uses Luis
> Alicea, a 250 hitter with no power as a pinch hitter.  What the Hell
> is he thinking.
Educate yourself before you rip on this years manager of the year.
Lankford injured himself in a previous game and Torre was resting
him.
As far as the Whitten/Gilkey controversy.  Whitten adds some more
needed power, and if Jordan continues to hit the way he has been,
Gilkey will find himself in the starting lineup soon enough.
Sam
> Brian Landmann
> Georgia Institute of Technology
> Internet:gt7469a@prism.gatech.edu
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
From: rbd@flash.ece.uc.edu (Bobby Davis)
Organization: University of Cincinnati
NNTP-Posting-Host: flash.ece.uc.edu
Lines: 5
Hank Greenberg was probably the greatest ever.  He was also subject to a
lot of heckling from bigots on the opposing teams and in the stands, but
it never seemed to affect his performance negatively.
Bob Davis	rbd@thor.ece.uc.edu
From: cherylm@hplsla.hp.com (Cheryl Marks)
Subject: Re: Omar Vizquel - GRAND SALAMI?
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Lines: 20
Do you think Omar's grand slam is the result of his new fan club?  Last week
a banner appeared in the Kingdome:
OLDER WOMEN FOR OMAR
Cheryl
*****************************************************************************
*
*  Cheryl Marks
*  HP-UX Address:  cherylm@lsid.hp.com         HP Desk:  CHERYL MARKS/HPA100
*  Telenet:  1-335-2193                        Ma Bell:  (206) 335-2193
*  USPS:  Cheryl Marks
*         MS 330
*         8600 Soper Hill Road
*         Everett, WA  98205-1298
*
* "Too much of a good thing is wonderful." 		Mae West            *
*****************************************************************************
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Pleasant Yankee Surprises
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Lines: 22
In article <1993Apr15.200629.7200@alleg.edu> luriem@alleg.edu(Michael Lurie) The Liberalizer writes:
>
>     Actually, I kind of liked the Abott trade. We did trade the rookie of
>the year, SNOW, but with Don mattingly at first for another 8 years, Why
>bother.
I'd be willing to make two wagers:
1) Snow doesn't win ROY.
2) Mattingly is out of baseball within five years.
I'm skeptical of the first, because I don't think Snow is that good a
player, and he is on a losing team.
I'm skeptical of the second because of his back.  Mattingly is 32 this
year, and how many players play until they are 40?  Not too many, and
most of them didn't have chronic back problems when they were 32.
Could be wrong on either or both, but I think that's the smart way to
bet...
Cheers,
-Valentine
From: gspira@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Spira)
Subject: Re: BaseballIsDead
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Lines: 10
scott@asd.com (Scott Barman) writes:
>Forget it.  Word has it three divisions with a wild card is just about
>a done deal.  It has to be decided soon since negotiations with the
>networks also have to begin soon.
Preliminary negotiations started already, I believe.  Though the word
is that they are going slooooooooooooooooooooooowly.
Greg
From: eechen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Emery Ethan Chen)
Subject: Re: Let's Talk Phillies
Summary: What Bullshit!
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 19
Article from as follows
>From: bml2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (BRIAN MICHAEL LUCY)
>Subject: Re: Let's Talk Phillies
>Date: 15 Apr 93 06:29:05 GMT
>Organization: Lehigh University
>Lines: 9
>In article <Uflkll_00VpcEKW15e@andrew.cmu.edu>, al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Amit
>Likhy ani) writes: >Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.baseball: 9-Apr-93 Re:
>Let's Talk >Phillies u96_msopher@vaxc.stevens (963) > >> > like this.  Oh
>well.  How do we spell CELLAR? > > >>                      p - i - r - a - t
>- e - s > >> ` > > >>
>NINJA JEW > > >Are there any Philly fans who want to put money on that?   If
>not, stop >your woofing.  Ben Rivera got hammered. > True (last week), but
>tonight he pitched 6 shutout innings and got 9 runs behind him. THAT'S why
>we're 8-1!
One phrase for you....FUCK YOU!!!!
Thanks.
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: na
Lines: 21
In article <1993Apr15.212014.1782@news.acns.nwu.edu> edo@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Edward Ouellette) writes:
>
>My point? RBI might not be a perfect stat but nothing is. And no stat (or lack
>of) can tell me there are no clutch hitters. Maybe no stat CAN tell me,
>either, but some people are... I just know it!!! 8)
I was *hoping* somebody would mention clutch.  Clutch?  Baerga?  The
two words simply do not go together.  With runners in scoring
position, Baerga batted .308/.366/.418 last year.  This doesn't quite
*suck*, but most batters hit *better* in this situation.
Alomar?  He hit .354/.439/.517 with runners in scoring position!
The difference?  Alomar had 68 RBIs in 147 such AB.  Baerga had 81
RBIs in 182 such AB.  Baerga got 25% more chances, yet succeeded only
20% more times.
Frankly, I don't believe in clutch.  But if I did, my vote would
go to Alomar for MVP (let alone "best 2B in the AL").
-Valentine
From: gspira@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Spira)
Subject: Re: DAVE KINGMAN FOR THE HALL OF FAME
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Lines: 79
(Steve Tomassi) writes:
>     Hi, baseball fans! So what do you say? Don't you think he deserves it?
>I
>mean, heck, if Dave Winfield (ho-hum) is seriously being considered for it,
>as
>is Lee Smith (ha), then why don't we give Dave Kingman a chance? Or Darrell
>Evans! Yeah, yeah! After the Hall of Fame takes in them, it can take in
>Eddie
>Murray and Jeff Reardon.
Unfortunately, you seem to lack the ability to rate players.  Dave
Winfield has had a better career than half the people in the Hall of
Fame.  Eddie Murray and Darrel Evans are both one of the top 100 players
of all time.  Lee Smith has had probably the greatest long career
of any relief pitcher since 1960, with the possible exception of Gossage.
On the other hand, Kingman probably isn't one of the best 750 players
of all time.
And Reardon, though a good pitcher, isn't in Smith's class career wise.
>     Well, in any case, I am sick and tired (mostly sick) of everybody
>giving
>Hall of Fame consideration to players that are by today's standards,
>marginal.
>Honestly, Ozzie Smith and Robin Yount don't belong there. They're both
>shortstops that just hung around for a long time. Big deal.
We're talking 2 of the top 50 players of all time here.  There probably
aren't 5 shortstops in history who were better than these two.
>     Let's be a little more selective, huh? Stop handing out these honors
>so
>liberally. Save them for the guys who really deserve it. Face it, if
>something
>isn't done, there will be little prestige in the Hall of Fame anymore. When
>certain individuals believe that Steve Garvey or Jack Morris are potential
>candidates, the absurdity is apparent.
Garvey sucked.  Morris, while a very good pitcher, simply doesn't
belong near Cooperstown.
Gee, can these guys even compare to
>the more likely future Hall of Famers like Kirby Puckett or Nolan Ryan?
If Puckett and Ryan (okay, no if there) get into to the Hall, they will be
marginal Hall of Famers (unless Puckett keeps hitting like he did last year for
a while longer)
To put this in perspective, here's a listing of the linear weights
values of the careers of the players you mention.  In parenthesis
is how high they are up on the greatest ever list if they make it.
While no one would claim these are perfect rankings, they should give
you a good value of these guys' careers as compared to average players.
Robin Yount 43.0 (41)
Ozzie Smith 42.1 (45)
Dave Winfield 40.3 (53)
Eddie Murray 37.5 (68)
Darrel Evans 35.2 (80)
Kirby Puckett 24.3 (180)
Nolan Ryan 21.6 (219)
Jack Morris 11.8 (478)
Dave Kingman 0.4
Steve Garvey -5.8
To give you an idea of how these numbers compare to those in the Hall:
Of the 71 eligible players whose career stats equaled 35.0, 64 are in the Hall
of Fame. The ones who aren't include 4 19th century players, Ron Santo, Bobby
Grich, and Bob Johnson.
Of those eligible who score between 30.0 and 34.9, 15 of 25 are in.  Of
those eligible who score between 25.0 and 29.9, 24 of 44 are in.
Greg
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Re: Phillies: A New Ballpark in Future?
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 18
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
In a Philadelphia Inquirer a few days ago, it was reported that there were
two (2) plans for a new Phillies stadium:  the already-mentioned 30th
Street Station proposal, and a location near Broad Street and Race Street,
I think.  I can't remember the exact details, but the stadium would be
build practically downtown.  There is a small lot that could be used,
according to the paper.  The 30th street plan has run into some trouble,
because Amtrak does not want to reroute some of its lines in order to
accomodate the stadium.  I don't have an opinion just yet, just letting
everyone know that there are really two options being discussed right now.
Neither of these plans will be put into effect very soon, however, because
nobody wants to pay for it :-)
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you."
From: jrogoff@scott.skidmore.edu (jay rogoff)
Subject: Box score abbrev woes
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Lines: 7
Can anybody figure out why some box score abbreviations make
absolutely no sense?  (At least in the local Gannett rag that finds its way
to my door.)  I must have stared at "Cleman" in the Mets' box for a
good 30 seconds this morning wondering who the hell it was.  Wouldn't
it make more sense to use "Colemn"?
Jay
From: jrogoff@scott.skidmore.edu (jay rogoff)
Subject: Re: Infield Fly Rule
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Lines: 16
One last infield fly question that has always puzzled me and hasn't
yet been addressed.  I believe the rule also does *not* deal with this
situation:
If Infield Fly is declared and the ball is caught, runners can tag up
and advance at their own risk, as on any fly ball.
However, if the Infield Fly is *not* caught, at what point can a
runner legally leave his base w/o fear of being doubled off for
advancing too early?  When the
ball hits the ground?  When a fielder first touches the ball after it
hits the ground?
Enlightenment would be appreciated.
Jay
From: jlroffma@unix.amherst.edu (JOSHUA LAWRENCE ROFFMAN)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Nntp-Posting-Host: amhux3.amherst.edu
Organization: Amherst College
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Lines: 12
: >baseball players, past and present.  We weren't able to come up
: >with much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and
: >maybe John Lowenstein.  Can anyone come up with any more.  I know
: >it sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but
: >humor us.  Thanks for your help.
:
John Lowenstein is definately NOT Jewish.  Many in Baltimore thought he was...
especially after he told the Baltimore _Jewish Times_ so...but later he
admitted that it was a joke.
From:  (Sean Garrison)
Subject: Re: WFAN
Nntp-Posting-Host: berkeley-kstar-node.net.yale.edu
Organization: Yale University
Lines: 11
In article <C5JC3z.KnD@news.udel.edu>, philly@ravel.udel.edu (Robert C
Hite) wrote:
> WIP took two of your
> best sports jockeys too, Jody MacDonald and Steve Fredericks.
DUDE!  Are you nuts?  WFAN is second to none.  Jody Mac's exit was quite a
loss, but if you think Fredericks On The FAN was much of one, you're pretty
skewed.
� Sean
From: aardvark@cygnus.la.locus.com (Warren Usui)
Subject: Re: The 1964 Phillies: deja vu?
Keywords: Phillies
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Lines: 21
In article <ericsC5Hzr5.EuI@netcom.com> erics@netcom.com (Eric Smith) writes:
>Yeah, the Phillies played over their heads almost the whole year,
>but it all caught up to them in one 10-game streak. I *am* as old as
>1964 (man!) and I was a big Phillies fan at the time (age 13).
.
.
.
>the Dodgers or somebody else finish two games back? That has to be
>one of the closest last minute scrambles ever.
Since I was born in the late Pleistocene, I too remember 1964.  That year,
the Dodgers were several games out of first and I think finished sixth in the
league.  This was kind of odd because they won the World Series both the
previous year and the following year.
--
Warren Usui
I'm one with the Universe -- on a scale from 1 to 10.
From: erics@netcom.com (Eric Smith)
Subject: Re: The 1964 Phillies: deja vu?
Keywords: Phillies
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 112
Previously I wrote:
>Yeah, the Phillies played over their heads almost the whole year,
>but it all caught up to them in one 10-game streak. I *am* as old as
>1964 (man!) and I was a big Phillies fan at the time (age 13).
>September '64 is still a painful thing to remember. But I can tell you
>that the Phillies never led the league by 15 that year. Going by memory
>alone, I believe their biggest lead was 7 1/2 games, and they were
>6 1/2 ahead when the famous 10-game losing streak began, a streak
>during which it seemed that they found just about every way to lose
>known to man. Anyway, I think they rebounded just before the end and
>won their last couple games and were still in the thing until the
>final day, but finished tied with the Giants one game out. And didn't
>the Dodgers or somebody else finish two games back? That has to be
>one of the closest last minute scrambles ever.
OK, you guys stirred up my childhood memories, so I went and did
some research on the final month or so of the 1964 season. It turns
out that my recollections were pretty darn accurate, at least as
far as the Phillies record goes. On September 1 1964 this was the
top of the N.L. standings:
W     L    GB
Philadelphia    79    51    -
Cincinnati      74    57    5 1/2
St. Louis       72    59    7 1/2
San Francisco   73    60    7 1/2
This is a game-by-game description of the remainder of the Phillies'
season:
Date  Score Opponent        Lead      Pitcher (starting and winner/loser)
9/1   4-3   Houston         5 1/2     Bunning (15-4)
9/2   2-1   Houston         5 1/2     Short (15-7)
9/3   0-6   Houston         5 1/2     Bennett (9-12)
9/4   5-3   San Francisco   6 1/2     Mahaffey; Baldschun (6-5)
9/5   ??Win San Francisco   6 1/2     Bunning (16-4)
9/6   3-4   San Francisco   5 1/2     Short; Baldschun (6-6)
9/7   5-1   Los Angeles               Bennett (10-12)
1-3   Los Angeles     6 1/2     Wise (5-3)
9/8   2-3   Los Angeles     6         Mahaffey (12-7)
9/9 5-10/11 St. Louis       5         Bunning; Baldschun (6-7)
(Cardinals take over 2nd place from Cincinnati)
9/10  5-1   St. Louis       6         Short (16-7)
9/11  1-0   San Francisco   6         Bennett (11-12)
9/12  1-9   San Francisco   6         Mahaffey (12-8)
(Giants move into a tie for 2nd with St. Louis)
9/13 4-1/10 San Francisco   6         Bunning (17-4)
(Cardinals back in sole possesion of 2nd place)
9/14  4-1   Houston         6 1/2     Short (17-7)
9/15  1-0   Houston         6         Bennett (12-12)
9/16  5-6   Houston         6         Bunning (17-5)
9/17  4-3   Los Angeles     6 1/2     Wise; Schantz (2-4)
9/18  3-4   Los Angeles     6         Short; Baldschun (6-8)
9/19 3-4/16 Los Angeles     5 1/2     Bennett; Baldschun (6-9)
9/20  3-2   Los Angeles     6 1/2     Bunning (18-5)
(Reds move back into tie for 2nd with Cardinals)
Well so far so good for the Phillies. But now it all falls apart ...
9/21  0-1   Cincinnati      5 1/2     Mahaffey (12-9)
(Reds take sole possesion of 2nd place)
9/22  2-9   Cincinnati      4 1/2     Short (17-8)
9/23  4-6   Cincinnati      3 1/2     Bennett (12-13)
9/24  3-5   Milwaukee       3         Bunning (18-6)
9/25 5-7/12 Milwaukee       1 1/2     Short; Boozer (3-4)
(Cards now 2 1/2 back in 3rd, Giants 3 1/2 in 4th)
9/26  4-6   Milwaukee         1/2     Mahaffey; Schantz (2-5)
9/27  8-14  Milwaukee      -1         Bunning (18-7)
(Phils lose 7 1/2 games in 7 days; Reds take over 1st,
Cardinals 1 1/2 back in 3rd)
9/28  1-5   St. Louis      -1 1/2     Short(17-9)
(Cardinals take over 2nd place, Phils drop to 3rd)
9/29  2-4   St. Louis      -1 1/2     Bennett (12-14)
(Reds and Cardinals now tied for 1st)
9/30  5-8   St. Louis      -2 1/2     Bunning (18-8)
(Cardinals take 1/2 game lead over Reds)
10/1  4-3   Cincinnati     -1 1/2     Short; Roebuck (5-3)
(Phillies halt 10-game losing streak; Cards lead Reds by 1/2 game)
10/2  Did not play; Cards lose to Mets, Reds tied for 1st, Phils 1 game back
10/3  10-0  Cincinnati     -1         Bunning (19-8)
(Cards beat Mets, take first by 1 from Reds and Phillies)
Whew! what a finish! And the final standings were:
W     L    GB
St. Louis       93    69    -
Philadelphia    92    70    1
Cincinnati      92    70    1
San Francisco   90    72    3
Now it doesn't appear to me that Phillies pitchers Bunning and Short
were really overused, at least by the four-man rotation standard of
the day, until well along into the 10-game losing streak, at which
time Mauch was probably desperate for a win at any cost because the
Phillies substantial lead had evaporated. The way they were used at
that time may have made the problem worse, although Bunning had one
of his sharpest games of the year in the final day 10-0 shutout of
the Reds that cost the Reds a share of the pennant. Bunning pitched
a complete game six-hitter, striking out five and walking one. It
would be inetersting to see, though, how the total innings for the
year for Bunning and Short stacks up against the rest of the league.
Also notice that the Phillies played every day from at least September 1
through October 1; while they didn't play substantially more games than
the other teams, the other teams each had a couple days off during that
stretch.
-----
Eric Smith
erics@netcom.com
erics@infoserv.com
CI$: 70262,3610
From: moakler@romulus.rutgers.edu (bam!)
Subject: The Bob Dylan Baseball Abstract
Distribution: na
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 49
Just a little something I found while reading the Village Voice, which
is not noted for its sports coverage, but occasionally the print some
interesting features.  This year, the predictions/team analyses for
the 1993 season were presented in the form of Bob Dylan lyrics.  I
don't have the article in front of me, so I'll only give the memorable
ones here that I remember and know the melody to.  I could dig up more
if there is interest.
Yankess (to the tune of "Subterranean Homesick Blues")
Howe is in the basement, mixing up the medicine.
George is on the pavement thinking 'bout the government.
Wade Boggs in a trench coat, bat out, paid off,
Says he's got a bad back, wants to get it laid off.
Look out kids, it's somethin' you did.
Don't know when, but it's Columbus again.
Mets (to the tune of "Like a Rolling Stone")
Once upon a time you played so fine
you threw away Dykstra before his prime, didn't you?
People said "Beware Cone, he's bound to roam"
But you thought they were just kidding you.
You used to laugh about,
The Strawberry that was headin' out.
But now you don't talk so loud,
Now you don't seem so proud,
About having to shop Vince Coleman for your next deal....
Phillies (to the tune of "Highway 61")
Well Daulton and Dykstra should have some fun,
Just keep them off of Highway 61!
Giants (to the tune of "The Ballad of Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter")
This is the story of the Magowan,
The man St. Petersburg came to pan,
For something that he never done,
He sits in the owner's box but one...
Day he could have been the Tampian of the world!
_______________________________________________________________________________
Bill Moakler		 |	LPO 10280        |	!RUTGERS ANIME!
moakler@remus.rutgers.edu|      PO BOX 5064      |  !ATLANTIC ANIME ALLIANCE!
(908)-932-3465     	 |New Brunswick, NJ 08903|      !CHIBI-CON '93!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an OTAKU; I am a FREE MAN!
From: kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu (Dave 'Almost Cursed the Jays' Kirsch)
Subject: Going to a Cubbies game ..
Keywords: tickets?, parking?, parka?
Nntp-Posting-Host: staff.tc.umn.edu
Organization: Li'l Carlos and the Hormones
Distribution: usa
Lines: 30
Well, after suffering from an intense fit of Minnesota-induced cabin fever,
I've decided to road trip to Milwaukee and take in a couple of games this
weekend. A couple games at County stadium will be great to relieve tension,
but I thought "Why not go to Wrigley for a game too?"
I see the Cubs are playing the Phillies on Sat (2:05 start, I believe
that's Eastern time listed). I figured it would be fun to bounce down to
Wrigley for the day game and live it up a little. I'm wondering if anyone
(esp. Cubbie fans) have some advice on:
1) If I'm taking 41 (Skokie Hwy) south until it runs into 94, what's the
best way to get to Wrigley? I'm planning on getting there an hour or
two early and paying through the nose for parking to keep things easy.
2) Is it probable that I'll be able to walk up and get bleacher seats (2 or
3) on game day? I figure since it's early in the year, Ryno's out and
the weather isn't great I should be able to get tickets. If not, what's
the best way to get advance tickets; can I call the Cubs' ticket office
directly and pick up tickets at the will call window?
3) Any advice on where to eat before or after the game?
4) Do they allow inflatable I-luv-ewe dolls (present from Lundy) into the
bleachers? :-)
--
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch      Blue Jays - Do it again in '93
kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu                        New .. quotes out of context!
"Not to beat a dead horse, but it's been a couple o' weeks .. this
disappoints me..punishments..discharges..jackhammering.." - Stephen Lawrence
From: sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall)
Subject: Re: Yankee fears.
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 26
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
I would e-mail this to you, but my mailserver doesn't recognize you or
something.
Anyway, the worst pitcher on the Yanks. If you mean currently on the team,
then I have to go with Scott "I'm a schizophrenic...No, I'm NOT!"
Kamienicki. Sure, occasionally the guy can pitch well for 5 or 6 innings,
but then he starts to go insane. A sure sign that he's losing his stuff
(and his mind) is when he starts to stalk around the mound between batters
and yell at himself.
The worst all-time Yanks pitcher?  Gotta go with Ed "New York? I have to
pitch in [gulp] New York?" Whitson. 'Nuff said!
--I'm outta here like Vladimir!
-Alan Sepinwall XVIII
===========================================================================
| "What's this?  This is ice.  This is what happens to water when it gets |
|  too cold.  This?  This is Kent.  This is what happens to people when   |
|  they get too sexually frustrated."                                     |
|               -Val Kilmer, "Real Genius"                                |
===========================================================================
From: thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: Sandberg, Runs, RBIs (was: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series)
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Distribution: na
Lines: 23
In article <C5JqBy.M7A@news.rich.bnr.ca> bratt@crchh7a9.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (John Bratt) writes:
>RBIs and Runs scored are the two most important offensive statistics.  You
>can talk about OBP and SLG% all you want, but the fact remains:
>
>	The team that scores more runs wins the game!
>	---------------------------------------------
>
>Flame Away
So what does that have to do with RBI's?  The team with the most RBI's
doesn't necessarily win the game.
Yes, runs are the most important statistice -- for a *team*.  (So why does
every newspaper rank team offense by batting average?)
But for an individual player, runs and RBIs are context-dependent, and tell
us very little about the player himself, and more about his teammates and
position in the batting order.
--
ted frank                 |
thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu |         I'm sorry, the card says "Moops."
the u of c law school     |
standard disclaimers      |
From: wilbanks@spot.Colorado.EDU (Kokopeli)
Subject: Re: Old Predictions to laugh at...
Nntp-Posting-Host: spot.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 35
tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>From jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca Thu Sep 12 10:35:58 1991
>>
>>Ron Hassey will be a minor league manager with the Yankees.
>Dunno what happened to him.
Maybe I can help you. He's a major league coach with the Rockies.
So above prediction is doubly wrong.
My prediction: The Red Sox-Cubs Series and Vikings-Broncos SuperBore will
occur at the end of the world.
And one Rockie will finish in the top 10 of an offensive catagory this
year.
And no Rockie starter will have an ERA below 3.50.
And the Rangers fade will not begin until...August. They'll give way
to the Angels. But still challenge to the end.
Really. Not making any of this up. If I am, may God strike me down *ZZZZZZT*
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Thanks for listening!
>-Valentine
--
Dylan Wilbanks, Environ. Con : The official USENET rabid fan of the
major, U of Colorado, Boulder: Colorado Rockies. Clip this .sig for
PO Box 1143, Boulder, CO     : 20% off on your next Rockies woof!!!
80306-1143. Life is bigger.  : (this space intenionally blank)
From: apanjabi@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
Subject: PHILS, NL EAST NOT SO WEAK
Distribution: world
Organization: Georgetown University
Lines: 16
I Love it how all of these people are "blaming" the Phillies success
on a weak division.  Why don't we look at the record of the teams in
each division (READ: Inter-Divisional Play), we'll see that the East
is really kicking the shit out of the West.  I know it is early, but
that is all we have to go on.  Atlanta is just so strong with their
.188 BA, Cincinnati is 2-7 coming off a sweep at Veteran's Stadium in
Philadelphia, and Houston was swept in it's first three games by the
Phillies in the Astrodome.  That, my Western Division friends, shows
that the three best teams in your division may not be as strong as you
think!!
PHILS ALL THE WAY IN '93
BRAVES HIT LIKE A AAA CLUB
REDS NEED MARGE
-BOB
From: CROSEN1@ua1vm.ua.edu (Charles Rosen)
Subject: Lots of runs
Nntp-Posting-Host: ua1vm.ua.edu
Organization: The University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa
Lines: 4
I have noticed that this year has had a lot of high scoring games (at least the
NL has).  I believe one reason are the expansion teams.  Any thoughts?
Charles
From: CROSEN1@ua1vm.ua.edu (Charles Rosen)
Subject: Re: Torre: The worst manager?
Nntp-Posting-Host: ua1vm.ua.edu
Organization: The University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa
Lines: 61
In article <93095@hydra.gatech.EDU>
gt7469a@prism.gatech.EDU (Brian R. Landmann) writes:
>Joe Torre has to be the worst manager in baseball.
>
>For anyone who didn't see Sunday's game,
>
>With a right hander pitching he decides to bench Lankform, a left handed
>hitter and play jordan and gilkey, both right handers.
>
>Later, in the ninth inning with the bases loaded and two outs he puts
>lankford, a 300 hitter with power in as a pinch runner and uses Luis
>Alicea, a 250 hitter with no power as a pinch hitter.  What the Hell
>is he thinking.
>
For your information, Lankford is injured (I think it is his shoulder or rib
cage), so he could not use him as a pinch hitter.
>Earlier in the game in an interview about acquiring Mark Whiten he commented
>how fortunate the Cardinals were to get Whiten and that Whiten would be a
>regular even though this meant that Gilkey would be hurt, But torre said
>he liked Gilkey coming off the bench.  Gilkey hit over 300 last year,
>what does he have to do to start, The guy would be starting on most every
>team in the league.
>
I do believe that Whiten was a very good aquisition for the Cards.  He does
not have too much offensive capabilities, but he is an awesome defensively.
Since when have the Cardnials actually thought of offense instead of defense?:)
I forgot who St. Louis gave up for him, but it was not too much.
As far as Gilkey is concerned, he is a leftfielder and so is Brian Jordan, who
beat him out.  I expect to see a Gilkey/Jordan platoon in LF.
>Furthermore, in Sundays game when lankford was thrown out at the plate,
>The replay showed Bucky Dent the third base coach looking down the line
>and waving lankford home,
>
I agree with you on this one.  As soon as Larkin threw that ball, I knew that
Lankford was a dead bird.  But how could Dent have known that Larkin would make
a perfect throw?
I strongly believe that Torre is one of the best managers in baseball.  Don't
forget the overachieving Cards of '91 that won all those close games and went
from last place to second place (although they were oveshadowed by the Braves/
Twins last to first climb).  He won a division title, and barely lost a pennant
race when he was with the Braves (why Atlanta ever even considered firing him I
will never understand).  With Torre at the controls, the Cardinals are heading
in the right direction.
One more thing, one game does not make a season.  Yes, they lost to the Reds,
but with the second best pitching staff in the National League (first in the
East), and a pretty good offense, the Redbirds will win a lot more than they
lose.  Maybe this is the year that they will go all the way.
Charles, a very enthusiastic Cardnials fan
-----------------------------------------------------------------
� Charles Rosen            �      THIRTY-FOUR TO THIRTEEN!!!    �
� University of Alabama    �   NATIONAL CHAMPS!!!  ROLL TIDE!!! �
� Tuscaloosa, AL           �         (Need I Say More?)         �
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: gerry@macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au (Gerry Myerson)
Subject: The Bob Dylan Baseball Abstract
Organization: School of MPCE, Macquarie University, Australia.
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au
Originator: gerry@macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au
Reposted, without permission, from rec.music.dylan:
In article <1993Apr9.152336.14605@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU>, BUCK@vax.museum.upenn.edu wrote:
>
> For those of you who like both Bob and baseball, check out the
> current Village Voice (April 13), p.141.  John Lammers and Hart
> Seely have written The Bob Dylan Baseball Abstract, and they have
> covered every team in both leagues.
>
> Example:
> Colorado.  An' the silent bats will shatter.  From the scores between
> the lines.  For they're one too many castoffs.  And a thousand runs
> behind.
>
> Rebecca
> buck@vax.museum.upenn.edu
Gerry Myerson
From: boone@psc.edu (Jon Boone)
Subject: Re: Why Spanky?
Organization: Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center, Pittsburgh PA, USA
Lines: 27
NNTP-Posting-Host: postoffice1.psc.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
On Mon, 12 Apr 93 00:53:14 GMT in <<1993Apr12.005314.5700@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>> Greg Spira (gspira@nyx.cs.du.edu) wrote:
:>Does anybody in the Pittsburgh area know why Mike LaValliere was released?
:>Last year I kept saying that Slaught should get the bulk of the playing time,
:>that he was clearly the better player at this point, but Leyland insisted on
:>keeping a pretty strict platoon.  And now he is released?  That doesn't
:>make any sense to me.
Greg,
The story goes like this:
Spanky is too slow!  If he were quicker, he would still be here.
But with Slaught and Tom Prince, they didn't want to lose Prince in order
to bring up that 11th pitcher.  Slaught is about as good as Spanky and
Prince is coming along nicely!
Don't feel too bad for him.  He's still gonna get theat $4,000,000
over the next two years -- he'll be able to do most of what he wants to
do.
--
/*****************************************************************************/
/* Jon `Iain` Boone   Network Systems Administrator     boone@psc.edu        */
/* iain+@cmu.edu      Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center  (412) 268-6959       */
/* I don't speak for anyone other than myself, unless otherwise stated!!!!!! */
/*****************************************************************************/
From: sbp002@acad.drake.edu
Subject: Re: Braves Pitching UpdateDIR
Lines: 12
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad.drake.edu
Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA
> Not clear to me at all.  I'd certainly rather have a team who was winning
> 4-1 games than 2-1 games.  In the 2-1 game, luck is going to play a much
> bigger role than in the 4-1 game.
But you still need the pitching staff to hold the opposing team to
one run.
Sam
>
> Sherri Nichols
> snichols@adobe.com
From: sbp002@acad.drake.edu
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Lines: 28
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad.drake.edu
Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA
In article <1qkkodINN5f5@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>, pablo@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Pablo A Iglesias) writes:
> In article <15APR93.14691229.0062@lafibm.lafayette.edu> VB30@lafibm.lafayette.edu (VB30) writes:
>>Just wondering.  A friend and I were talking the other day, and
>>we were (for some reason) trying to come up with names of Jewish
>>baseball players, past and present.  We weren't able to come up
>>with much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and
>>maybe John Lowenstein.  Can anyone come up with any more.  I know
>>it sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but
>>humor us.  Thanks for your help.
>>
>>Thanks.
>>Bobby
>
>
>
> Hank Greenberg would have to be the most famous, because his Jewish
> faith actually affected his play. (missing late season or was it world
> series games because of Yom Kippur)
>
I thought that was Sandy Koufax.
Sam
>
>
> --
> Pablo Iglesias
> pi@ruth.ece.jhu.edu
>
From: mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer)
Subject: Re: Jose Canseco's Swing - 1992 vs. 1986.
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Distribution: na
Lines: 62
In article <C5JKIK.1zF@ucdavis.edu> ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary Built Like Villanueva Huckabay) writes:
>Was going over some videos last night.....
And you wrote an *excellent* report about it.
>1.  He's bulked up too much.  Period.  He needs to LOSE about 20 pounds,
>    not gain more bulk.
>
>2.  His bat speed has absolutely VANISHED.  Conservatively, I'd say he's
>    lost 4%-7% of his bat speed, and that's a HUGE amount of speed.
>
>3.  That open stance is KILLING him.   Note that he acts sort of like
>    Brian Downing - way open to start, then closes up as ball is
>    released.  Downing could do this without significant head movement -
>    Canseco can't.  Also, note that Canseco doesn't always close his
>    stance the same way - sometimes, his hips are open, sometimes,
>    they're fully closed.  Without a good starting point, it's hard
>    to make adjustments in your swing.
I understand (from an unreliable source) that Canseco was considered
expendable by the A's when he refused to accept any coaching about
his batting stance.  The A's brain trust came to believe that his
back problems were exacerbated, if not caused, by having a wide open
stance, closing it quickly and then swinging with a lot of torque
(that's a paraphrase of what I remember).
In any event, Canseco took the road that he and he alone would decide
his stance, and the A's began to believe that he would either reinjure
himself or begin to lose his ability to hit for both average and power.
>Aside from salting away a large sum of a cash that I could never touch,
>so that I'd never have to work again, I'd restructure my entire swing.
Apparently, you sound like LaRussa.
>Second, drop 20 pounds.  Cut out the weight work.
The A's also objected about this.
>If Canseco's open stance and resulting bad habits are a result of his back
>problems, he'll be out of baseball in three years.  If not, he could
>still hit 600+ HR.
Again, I'm just repeating something I heard.  But possibly the cause
and effect is the reverse of that.
--	The Beastmaster
--
Mark Singer
mss@netcom.com
From: gspira@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Spira)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Lines: 4
You can add Steve Rosenberg, one-time White Sox reliever now in the Mets
system, to the list.
Greg
From: moakler@romulus.rutgers.edu (bam!)
Subject: The Bob Dylan Baseball Abstract
Distribution: na
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 42
Just a little something I found while reading the Village Voice, which
is not noted for its sports coverage, but occasionally the print some
interesting features.  This year, the predictions/team analyses for
the 1993 season were presented in the form of Bob Dylan lyrics.  I
don't have the article in front of me, so I'll only give the memorable
ones here that I remember and know the melody to.  I could dig up more
if there is interest.
Yankess (to the tune of "Subterranean Homesick Blues")
Howe is in the basement, mixing up the medicine.
George is on the pavement thinking 'bout the government.
Wade Boggs in a trench coat, bat out, paid off,
Says he's got a bad back, wants to get it laid off.
Look out kids, it's somethin' you did.
Don't know when, but it's Columbus again.
Mets (to the tune of "Like a Rolling Stone")
Once upon a time you played so fine
you threw away Dykstra before his prime, didn't you?
People said "Beware Cone, he's bound to roam"
But you thought they were just kidding you.
You used to laugh about,
The Strawberry that was headin' out.
But now you don't talk so loud,
Now you don't seem so proud,
About having to shop Vince Coleman for your next deal....
Phillies (to the tune of "Highway 61")
Well Daulton and Dykstra should have some fun,
Just keep them off of Highway 61!
Giants (to the tune of "The Ballad of Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter")
This is the story of the Magowan,
The man St. Petersburg came to pan,
For something that he never done,
He's sit in the owner's box but one...
Day he could have the Tampian of the world!
From: mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Lines: 18
>In article <15APR93.14691229.0062@lafibm.lafayette.edu> VB30@lafibm.lafayette.edu (VB30) writes:
>
>It's Stankiewicz, not Stankowitz, and he's not Jewish - he's Polish
>(by the way, the correct pronunciation - according to Stanky himself,
>is "ston-KEV-itch". all the sportscasters get it wrong)
>
Polish and Jewish are *not* mutually exclusive.
--
Mark Singer
mss@netcom.com
From: mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer)
Subject: Re: Pleasant Yankee Surprises
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Lines: 48
In article <1993Apr15.231903.4045@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>In article <1993Apr15.200629.7200@alleg.edu> luriem@alleg.edu(Michael Lurie) The Liberalizer writes:
>>
>
>I'd be willing to make two wagers:
>1) Snow doesn't win ROY.
>2) Mattingly is out of baseball within five years.
>
>I'm skeptical of the first, because I don't think Snow is that good a
>player, and he is on a losing team.
I don't have a history handy, but I don't recall that the preponderance
of ROY's come from winning teams.  In fact, I think team performance is
generally irrelevant, as almost always the most deserving candidate wins.
Am I wrong?
And he is not necessarily on a losing team.  While the Angels' staff
is still very weak, their everyday lineup is doing quite well, thank
you.  Snow is playing great.  Salmon is learning to make the adjustments.
Easley appears fine, but even if he's not Flora is ready to come up.
Between Gonzales and Gruber they'll manage the hot corner.  Polonia
and Curtis are steady and heady.  Even Myers and Orton are contributing.
Personally, I think they can finish over .500 which makes them a
winning team.
--	The Beastmaster
>
>I'm skeptical of the second because of his back.  Mattingly is 32 this
>year, and how many players play until they are 40?  Not too many, and
>most of them didn't have chronic back problems when they were 32.
>
>Could be wrong on either or both, but I think that's the smart way to
>bet...
>
>Cheers,
>-Valentine
--
Mark Singer
mss@netcom.com
From: mtt@kepler.unh.edu (Matthew T Thompson)
Subject: music censorship survey - please fill out
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Lines: 68
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu
Hello, I'm doing a paper on censorship in music and I would appreciate it if you took the time to participate in this survey.  Please answer as each question asks ('why?' simply means that you have room to explain your answer, if you chose.).  The last question is for any comments, questions, or suggestions.  Thank you in advance, please E-mail to the address at the end.
I)  are you [male/female]
II) what is your age?
III)what is your major/occupation?
IV) what type of music do you listen to (check all that apply)?
a.  hard rock   b.  metal   c.  alternative   d.  blues    e.  rap
f.  jazz    g.  soft rock   h.  easy listening   i.  country
j.  classical   k.  hard core   l.  dance   m.  new age
n.  others (did I miss any?)____________
1)  Do you think recordings with objectionable or offensive lyrics be labeled? [yes/no] Why?
2)  Do you think certain recordings should be banned from minors (under 18 years of age)? [yes/no] why?
3)  Do you think certain recordings should be banned.  Period.  [yes/no]  Why?
4)  If yes to any of the above, who should decide:
a. parents
b. government
c. music industry
d. other________________
feel free to add any comments on this.
5)  Do you think [more/less] should be done for controling record sales, or do you think the present labeling system is enough?
6)  What is your definition of censorship?  Also, feel free to add comments, suggestions, questions, or further explanations.
Please E-mail at: mtt@kepler.unh.edu or hit 'R' to reply.
thanks.
Matthew T. Thompson
disclaimer:  if any responses are used in paper, they will be anoynamous (sp?) unless the person specifies they what their name to be used.
--
*************This .sig is closed for repairs********************************
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ution,|  } Matthew T. Thompson rrrrrrr!   *pound, pound, thud* "OUCH"$%#@"duh?"
E-mail at mtt@kepler.unh.edu or shazam@unh.edu
From: frankkim@CATFISH.LCS.MIT.EDU (Frank Kim)
Subject: Erickson, Keith Miller?
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
Lines: 12
HI,
I was just wondering if anyone knew when Erickson
and Keith Miller are expected to come back and what
exactly ails them.
--
Sincerely,
Frank S. Kim
From: mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer)
Subject: Re: DAVE KINGMAN FOR THE HALL OF FAME
Keywords: Hall of Fame, Winfield, Kingman, Murray, Joe Lundy, :-)
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Distribution: na
Lines: 15
I'm no Kingman fan.  Just thought I'd point out that he's the
only player in history to have five three-HR games.  Joe Carter
has four.  Eddie Murray three.  McCovey and Gehrig also three.
Ruth, Mays, Foxx and Dawson two each.
I don't think Reggie's WS game counts, else I believe he would
also have had two.
--	The Beastmaster
--
Mark Singer
mss@netcom.com
From: fls@keynes.econ.duke.edu (Forrest Smith)
Subject: Re: Braves Pitching UpdateDIR
Distribution: usa
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.
Lines: 14
Nntp-Posting-Host: keynes.econ.duke.edu
In article <1993Apr14.153137.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> pjtier01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>
>If the Braves
>continue to average 3 runs a game, then 3 is where they will finish.
>                                                                    P. Tierney
So, if the Braves run production falls to 1 per game, which is
certainly where it's headed (if they're lucky), does that mean they'll finish
first?
--
@econ.duke.edu     fls@econ.duke.edu     fls@econ.duke.edu    fls@econ.duke.
s  To my correspondents:  My email has been changed.                       e
l                         My new address is:  fls@econ.duke.edu            d
f            If mail bounces, try fls@raphael.acpub.duke.edu               u
From: gspira@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Spira)
Subject: Re: Sandberg, Runs, RBIs (was: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series)
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Distribution: na
Lines: 28
bratt@crchh7a9.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (John Bratt) writes:
>RBIs and Runs scored are the two most important offensive statistics.
Actually, they're pretty worthless, if you want to evaluate players
with stats.  RBIs and Runs Scored should be banned; all they do is
confuse victims of mediot brainwashing like yourself.
You
>can talk about OBP and SLG% all you want, but the fact remains:
>	The team that scores more runs wins the game!
>	---------------------------------------------
Uh, so?
You've just explained why we use OBP and SLG to evaluate players.
Precisely because the team that scores more runs wins the game.
Traditional baseball stats have gotten way too far away from methods
which enable fans to see who contributes to those runs scored - that's
where OBP, SLG, Runs Created, Linear Weights, etc. come in.  These
simplify matters so that we can more easily measure a player's
offensive contribution to the team's runs scored.
Thank you for making our case.  Have a nice day.
Greg
Subject: Re: WFAN
From: csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby)
Expires: Sat, 1 May 1993 04:00:00 GMT
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Lines: 41
No, he's not nuts, WIP is second to none THE sports station.  They
don't have Tony Bruno working ESPN radio and Al Morganti doing Friday
Night Hockey because they suck.  I live in Richmond Va, but I visit
Phila often, and on the way I get WTEM Washington) and WIP.  I hear
the FAN at night wherever I go (the signal used to be WNBC, when they
played golden oldies) because you can't avoid it.  Of those three,
WIP has the best hosts hands down.  Chuck Cooperstein isn't a homer,
and neither is Jody Mac.  WTEM is too generic to be placed in the
catergory.  In fact if you have heard WTEM and the FAN you notice the
theme music is identical...same ownership?? I think so!  WIP is
totally original.  Their hosts actually have a personality (this is a
knock at TEM (the TEAM) not the FAN because Mike and the Mad Dog and
Sommers are good) I mean comparing the morning guys in Philadelphia
to the ones in Washington is a total joke.  Anyway, I like the FAN
and WIP, but I think the edge goes to 'IP.
When I get back from Philly, I go into withdraw cause Richmond has
nada except the national sports line (and those guys are totally
clueless)
I was really mad when WCAU was cancelled because they had Steve
Fredericks doing sports phone after the Phillies games.  (WCAU is
another strong station, now it's an oldies station, but they still
have the Phillies) I started listening to the FAN because I heard he
went there.  I finally heard him last summer and he wasn't the same
guy.  Those NY fans got to him.  I was glad to hear him back in
Philly when I went to see a few Eagles games.
I will admit, I am  die hard EAGLES fan and WIP is basically an
Eagles station 365 days a year.  BUT, I bet you the Phillies are in
control right now.
About the knock on G. Cobb, I like him.  He knows the Eagles like a
book.  I remember the weekend before they went to play San Fran,
(when everyone thought the Eagles would be blown away) Cobb said that
the Eagles usually play their best when no one believe they can win.
Well they were inches shy of pulling the victory.
Well that's my $.02
Subject: Best Sportwriters...
From: csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby)
Expires: Sat, 1 May 1993 04:00:00 GMT
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Keywords: Sportswriters
Summary: Sportswriters
Lines: 19
Since someone brought up sports radio, howabout sportswriting???
(Anyone give an opinion)
Which city do you think has the best sports coverage in terms of
print media?
(these are general questions)
Is the Washington Post better than the Philadelphia Inquier or the NY
Times?
Howabout the Philadelphia Daily News compared to the New York Daily
News?
Do you notice papers being subjective or objective to the home team?
From: gspira@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Spira)
Subject: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Distribution: na
Lines: 30
>Something else to consider:
>Alomar's H-R splits were .500-.363 SLG, .444-.369 OBP! Baerga's was .486-.424
>and .392-.318. Pretty clearly, Alomar got a HUGE boost from his home park.
Not necessarily.  It could mean that, or it could mean that he just hit
a lot better at home than he did on the road (see Frank Thomas' home/road
splits in '91 for an example).  I would guess that some of Alomar's split
is due to the Skydome, but most of it is probably due just to coincidence.
There's no way to be sure, of course, but the only hitters the Skydome
seems to regularly help a lot are right handed home run hitters, and
Alomar is not a home run hitter.
>I'd say you could make a good for them being about equal right now. T&P
>rated Baerga higher, actually.
Only because of t&P's bogus fielding stats, which rate Alomar as the worst
defensive second baseman in the league.  On a career basis, I think T&P's
fielding stats may mean something, but on a seasonal basis it comes up
with ridiculous results like this.  Alomar may not be the god of fielding
the media says he is, but he sure isn't the worst in baseball.
Offensively, T&P rate Alomar much higher last year.
Regarding the A vs. B argument, I'll just say they're both very good players
with different strengths and a bright future.
Greg
From:  (jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu)
Subject: Re: ALL-TIME BEST PLAYERS
Organization: master/peon
Lines: 19
In article <1993Apr14.173428.12056@Princeton.EDU>, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>
> >In article <1993Apr13.115313.17986@bsu-ucs>, 00mbstultz@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
> >     writes...
>
> >>I've recently been working on project to determine the greatest
> >>players at their respective postions.
>
> >>2B  Career
What about U. Johnny Hodapp, the greatest 2nd baseman in Cleveland Indians
history?  225 hits in 1930, consistantly over .300.  A great, great second baseman.
Jon "Johnny" Hodapp
jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu
=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: rkoffler@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Bighelmet)
Subject: Re: Best Sportwriters...
Keywords: Sportswriters
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 21
csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby) writes:
>Since someone brought up sports radio, howabout sportswriting???
I happen to be a big fan of Jayson Stark.  He is a baseball writer for the
Philadelphia Inquirer.  Every tuesday he writes a "Week in Review" column.
He writes about unusual situations that occured during the week.  Unusual
stats.  He has a section called "Kinerisms of the Week" which are stupid
lines by Mets brodcaster Ralph Kiner.  Every year he has the LGTGAH contest.
That stands for "Last guy to get a hit."  He also writes for Baseball
America.  That column is sort of a highlights of "Week in Review."  If you
can, check his column out sometime.  He might make you laugh.
Rob Koffler
--
******************************************************************
|You live day to day and                rkoffler@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu|
|dream about tomorrow --Don Henley                               |
******************************************************************
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Pleasant Yankee Surprises
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Lines: 45
In article <mssC5K4GI.G64@netcom.com> mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) writes:
>
>I don't have a history handy, but I don't recall that the preponderance
>of ROY's come from winning teams.  In fact, I think team performance is
>generally irrelevant, as almost always the most deserving candidate wins.
>Am I wrong?
Not really, though I wouldn't personally say "the most deserving
candidate wins".  Rarely does a player win ROY when called up in mid
season, and there have been several duds in recent years.  But this is
more a factor of mediot biases than anything else.  (I wonder.  If
Amaral hits like he is capable of, will he receive ROTY votes?  He's
only 31, he could have a long career ahead of him!  :-)
>And he is not necessarily on a losing team.  While the Angels' staff
>is still very weak, their everyday lineup is doing quite well, thank
>you.  Snow is playing great.  Salmon is learning to make the adjustments.
>Easley appears fine, but even if he's not Flora is ready to come up.
>Between Gonzales and Gruber they'll manage the hot corner.  Polonia
>and Curtis are steady and heady.  Even Myers and Orton are contributing.
>
>Personally, I think they can finish over .500 which makes them a
>winning team.
I think they are a second-division team.  They should finish ahead of
the Royals, Mariners, and *possibly* Athletics.  But I don't think
they'll be above .500.  (I think the East is stronger this year.)
Last year their pitching was bad and their offense was horrible.  This
year their offense is better, but their pitching is still pretty bad.
Even if Finley returns to form, he won't replace what they lost in
Abbott.  Sanderson?  Farrell?  I don't believe it.
And while their BA may be good, and they have decent speed, their
offense lacks punch.  They don't have any bona fide power hitters.
(Salmon, Snow, Davis, and Curtis?  None with more than 20 HR
potential.)
Cheers,
-Valentine
P.S. Which AL team had the most steals last week?  Those go-go Tigers!
The mediots finally managed to convince them that they needed "more
balance" in their lineup.  You see, they were scoring too many runs
too consistently.  Gotta run more to break that up.
From: mtt@kepler.unh.edu (Matthew T Thompson)
Subject: RE: survey
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Lines: 17
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu
Keywords: survey,complaints
Yes, I know this is not Rec.music, (as someone has already pointed out, thanks I know that), I'm trying to get a random sample and also I'm desperate for respones.
So please, don't mail me complaining that it doesn't belong here or that it is wasting bandwidth.
This affects EVERYBODY not just readers of music groups.  Please either complete the survey, or hit 'n', because I'll just bounce back complaints.
Thank you
-Matt
--
********************************************************************************
*     /           \         #   Matthew T. Thompson                            *
*    /\  /|       |\        #   Electrical/Computer Engineering                *
*   /  \/ |ETALLIC| \       #   University of New Hampshire                    *
* \/                 \/     #   E-mail:  mtt@kepler.unh.edu or my evil twin at *
*  \                 /      #            shazam@unh.edu                        *
********************************************************************************
From: luriem@alleg.edu(Michael Lurie) The Liberalizer
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: Allegheny College
In article <1993Apr15.214421.1@acad.drake.edu> sbp002@acad.drake.edu
writes:
I remember reading somewhere that 7% of the league was jewish during the
50's. Now, there is practically NOBODY
From: luriem@alleg.edu(Michael Lurie) The Liberalizer
Subject: I think I am going to cry again Yankees lose it again
Organization: Allegheny College
I can't believe this, Howe has an ERA in the 80's He is improving!!!
Key pitches a GREAT game, and they screw it up AGAIN.
From: luriem@alleg.edu(Michael Lurie) The Liberalizer
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: Allegheny College
In article <C5Jsxs.1M0@unix.amherst.edu> jlroffma@unix.amherst.edu (JOSHUA
LAWRENCE ROFFMAN) writes:
> : >baseball players, past and present.  We weren't able to come up
> : >with much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and
> : >maybe John Lowenstein.  Can anyone come up with any more.  I know
> : >it sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but
> : >humor us.  Thanks for your help.
> :
>
>
> John Lowenstein is definately NOT Jewish.  Many in Baltimore thought he
was...
> especially after he told the Baltimore _Jewish Times_ so...but later he
> admitted that it was a joke.
Stanky is NOT Jewish, at least, I doubt it. A lot of jewish people don't
have Jewish names.
From: luriem@alleg.edu(Michael Lurie) The Liberalizer
Subject: Re: Pleasant Yankee Surprises
Organization: Allegheny College
In article <1993Apr15.231903.4045@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu
(Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
> In article <1993Apr15.200629.7200@alleg.edu> luriem@alleg.edu(Michael
Lurie) The Liberalizer writes:
> >
> >     Actually, I kind of liked the Abott trade. We did trade the rookie
of
> >the year, SNOW, but with Don mattingly at first for another 8 years,
Why
> >bother.
>
> I'd be willing to make two wagers:
> 1) Snow doesn't win ROY.
> 2) Mattingly is out of baseball within five years.
>
No, You are quite correct, but I was using some wishful thinking.
JT snow was wasting away, while Abbott can provide a great resourse for
the team.
From: luriem@alleg.edu(Michael Lurie) The Liberalizer
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: Allegheny College
In article <1qkkodINN5f5@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> pablo@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
(Pablo A Iglesias) writes:
> In article <15APR93.14691229.0062@lafibm.lafayette.edu>
VB30@lafibm.lafayette.edu (VB30) writes:
>
> Hank Greenberg would have to be the most famous, because his Jewish
> faith actually affected his play. (missing late season or was it world
> series games because of Yom Kippur)
>
Kofax missed world series game because of The jewish day of repentence.
From: jplee@cymbal.calpoly.edu (JASON LEE)
Subject: Re: Ryan out for 2-5 weeks!!
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 12
And then cs1442aq@news.uta.edu (cs1442aq) quoth:
>Nolan Ryan has torn cartlidge inhis right knee.  Is having surgery and
>is expected to miss 2-5 weeks.
That's too bad.  I really had hoped Nolan could end his career with a great
year.  I suppose there is still hope.
--
Jason Lee   jplee@oboe.calpoly.edu   jlee@cash.busfac.calpoly.edu    Giants
e ^ i*pi + 1 = 0    The most beautiful equation in mathematics.      Magic
For all sad words of tongue and pen, the saddest are these:          Number:
"It might have been."            John Greenleaf Whittier        155
From: gt0523e@prism.gatech.EDU (Michael Andre Mule)
Subject: Braves offensive offense
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 16
Deion Sanders hit a home run in his only AB today.  Nixon was 1 for 4.  Infield
single.  Deion's batting over .400 Nixon: around .200.   Whom would YOU start?
Wise up, Bobby.
See y'all at the ballyard
Go Braves
Chop Chop
Michael Mule'
--
Michael Andre Mule
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0523e
Internet: gt0523e@prism.gatech.edu
From: z_millerwl@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Subject: ASTROS FOR REAL?
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University
Lines: 6
WHO THINKS THE ASTROS ARE GOING PLACES???
THEY'RE CURRENTLY FIRST PLACE.
THEY'RE 5-4, 5-1 ON THE ROAD!
From: cjkuo@symantec.com (Jimmy Kuo)
Subject: Re: cubs & expos roster questions
Organization: Symantec/Peter Norton Group
Lines: 5
NNTP-Posting-Host: 155.64.151.14
alird@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes:
>>Today (4/14) Cubs activated P Mike Harkey from DL, whom did they move to
>>make room for Harkey?
Shawn Boskie.
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Let's Talk Phillies
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Lines: 16
In article <1993Apr15.232551.14817@leland.Stanford.EDU> eechen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Emery Ethan Chen) writes:
>One phrase for you....FUCK YOU!!!!
>Thanks.
Perhaps it's time to start rec.sport.baseball.graffiti, where the kiddies
can go yell taunts and insults at each other and leave the rest of us in
peace.
Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Braves Pitching UpdateDIR
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Lines: 21
In article <1993Apr15.214032.1@acad.drake.edu> sbp002@acad.drake.edu writes:
>
>> Not clear to me at all.  I'd certainly rather have a team who was winning
>> 4-1 games than 2-1 games.  In the 2-1 game, luck is going to play a much
>> bigger role than in the 4-1 game.
>
>But you still need the pitching staff to hold the opposing team to
>one run.
Yeah, but what's your point?  You still need the offense to score more runs
than you allow, too.
The Braves do have a fine pitching staff.  But that's still only half the
game.
Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Why Spanky?
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Lines: 18
In article <1ql93bINN1s5@postoffice1.psc.edu> boone@psc.edu (Jon Boone) writes:
>       Spanky is too slow!  If he were quicker, he would still be here.
>But with Slaught and Tom Prince, they didn't want to lose Prince in order
>to bring up that 11th pitcher.  Slaught is about as good as Spanky and
>Prince is coming along nicely!
Tom Prince is a 28 year old no-hit catcher.  Think of him as a young Dann
Bilardello.  I can't begin to fathom why the Pirates have been so afraid of
losing this guy, who's been in AAA most of the last 5 seasons.  The Pirates
released Kirk Gibson last year because Prince was out of options, then
eventually sent Prince down anyway, and he cleared waivers without a peep.
He's another year older, and still can't hit; why do they think he wouldn't
clear waivers now?  Why would they care?
Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: jrogoff@scott.skidmore.edu (jay rogoff)
Subject: Re: New Home for the Bosox!!!
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Lines: 19
> I agree, though I'd also be happy with a stadium that looks
> like new Comiskey. The new park was also made for baseball.
> Unlike Three Rivers, the Vet, Riverfront, etc., it's not a
> football park in which they also play baseball.
While we're on the multipurpose subject, let's not forget Shea, which
was designed to accommodate both the Mets & Jets.  It was the first
stadium (I think) to have the box seats on rollers so they could be
oriented at right angles for baseball & in parallel for football.
Of course, with the Jets gone to Jersey (and a truly good football
stadium), the Mets are saddled with a multipurpose stadium where,
because it's circular, the seats are almost always too far from the
action.  The Mets announcers--Kiner & Murphy in particular--have
always hyped it as "beautiful Shea
Stadium," a tipoff to how unbeautiful it truly is.
Jay
From: jrogoff@scott.skidmore.edu (jay rogoff)
Subject: Re: '61 Orioles Trivia
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Lines: 6
Bunker & McNally were later.
Pappas, Estrada, Steve Barber, and . . . ?
Jay
From: mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer)
Subject: Darrrrrrrrryl
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Lines: 64
The media is beating the incident at Dodger Stadium on Wednesday to
death, but I haven't seen anything in rsb yet.
Gerald Perry of the Cardinals pinch hit in the eighth inning with two
on and his club down by a run.  He stroked a line drive into the
right field corner.  The ball cleared the three-foot high fence and
went into the crowd.  Darryl, racing over from right center, got to
the spot in time to reach his glove up over the short fence, but he
missed the ball.  A fan sitting in the front row, wearing a mitt,
reached up and caught the ball.  Home run.
Now I've seen the replay several times and I have concluded that
Darryl missed the ball, and that the fan's glove was essentially
behind Darryl's.  Several Dodger fans with seats in the immediate
vicinity have claimed that the fan unquestionably interfered with
Strawberry.  What cannot be disputed, however, is that the fan
who caught the ball never took his eye off it;  he was oblivious
to where the fielder was playing.  He was also quite exuberant as
soon as he realized he had made the catch.
That exuberance disappeared immediately, however, when Strawberry
went into a tirade at the man.  All reports indicate he used a lot
of profanity and accused the man of interference, and therefore of
costing the Dodgers a game.  Shortly afterwards other fans hurled
food and beverages toward the man who made the catch.  Dodger Stadium
officials started to remove him from the park, but then relented and
just relocated him to another area.  In an interview after the game,
Lasorda blamed the fan for the loss.  Strawberry also went into a
tirade about how the fans are stupid and they don't care about
winning.  L.A. Times columnists similarly blasted the man who made
the catch.
Before each Dodger game the public address announcer makes a speech
wherein he says that fans are welcome to the souvenirs of balls that
are hit into the stands as long as they do not interfere with any
that are in the field of play.  Was the fan wrong?  Should he have
been more aware of the situation and acted to avoid any possibility
of interference?  Or was he human and just reacting?  By the way, he
is a season ticket holder and on his request the Dodgers have relocated
his seats to another area of the Stadium where future interference is
impossible.
Others have questioned why Darryl should be so concerned with what
the fan did when he has a grand total of 1 rbi through the first
nine games.
I question what he was doing in right center with a left-handed pull
hitter up and the game on the line.  Had he been closer to the play,
he certainly would have had a much better chance of catching the ball.
But I guess the big debate continues as to what are the responsibilities
of the fan.
--	The Beastmaster
--
Mark Singer
mss@netcom.com
From: pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger)
Subject: Gross Grosses Out Dodger Fans AGAIN.
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 60
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu
Went to the Dodgers game tonight -- it was cap night.
Astacio pitched ok, but had control trouble all night.
In the first, he walked a batter, balked him to second, then
a single scored the run, with the batter taking second on the
throw home.  Another single made the score 2-0 Cards.
Lasorda tried a new line up featuring Butler, Reed, And Piazza
batting third!  Darryl and Eric were benched in favor of Snyder
and Webster.
Piazza homered in the first to make the score 2-1 Cards.
The Dodgers tied the game in the second on a two out single
by Offerman.
By the fourth inning, Astacio had already made about 80 pitches, but
the score was still 2-2.  The Dodger defense made SEVERAL impressive
plays.  Piazza looked GREAT behind the plate, gunning down a runner
trying to steal second, throwing a runner out at first who
had strayed a bit from first base, etc.
Karros also made a spectacular play, keeping a ball from going into
the outfield.  The runner on first was so sure that ball was going
through, he just kept running past second.  Karros got up and threw
to third and EASILY got the runner at third.
My heart sank in the 7th when Gross got up to warm up in the bullpen.
Astacio was lifted for a pinch hitter, and when Gross entered the game
with the score still 2-2, Dodger fans just KNEW it was over.
Gross was relieving because he stunk on Tuesday, pitching just 2 1/3
innings, forcing Lasorda to use much of his bullpen.  The 15 inning
game had the same effect the next night...so only Gross was fresh
given his light work out Tuesday.
Gross lived up to his name.  He walked the first batter, gave up a hit
to the second, and walked the bases loaded.  After a grounder resulted
in a force at home, Zeile lifted a scoring fly ball to make it
3-2 Cards.  Gross paid little attention to the runners, and the next
thing you knew, the Cards had stolen a fourth run.  The runner on
first was eventually tagged out in the run down, but the 4th run had
scored long before that.
Meanwhile, the Dodgers mounted little offense after the second inning.
Lee Smith pitched the ninth.  He had little trouble getting Karros
and Wallach (does anyone have trouble with Wallach these days?).
Cory Snyder collected his first hit as a Dodger, a single, but
that was all the offense the Dodgers could mount.  Smith got his
third straight save against the Dodgers and all I got was my
free Dodger cap and a good look at Piazza.  If Piazza keeps this
up all year, he will be a strong candidate for rookie of the year
honors.  Though its really early, Karros is already showing signs
of a sophomore jinx year.
The final score...Cardinals 4 runs on 7 hits.
Dodgers 2 runs on 7 hits.
Dodger
From: anderge@stein.u.washington.edu (Geoff Anderson)
Subject: Re: Fenway Gif
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Lines: 11
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu
In article <C5JB3D.9nt@umassd.edu> acsddc@smucs1.umassd.edu writes:
>I was wondering if anyone had any kind of Fenway Park gif.
>I would appreciate it if someone could send me one.
>Thanks in advance.
>
>-Dan
Me too!  I would like any park or action gif or jpeg about baseball.
Geoff
From: joel@math.toronto.edu (Joel Chan)
Subject: Game Score Report
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Toronto
Lines: 12
Just out of curiosity, what happened to the weekly AL and NL Game
Score Reports?  I used to enjoy reading them throughout the summer
for the last two years.
Inquisitively yours,
Joel
--
Joel Chan <joel@math.toronto.edu>, Dept. of Mathematics, University of Toronto
Toronto Blue Jays -- 1992 World Series Champs!
"History: Those who ignore it are condemned to repeat it.  Math, too."
- From the comic strip "Betty"
From: 1605112EC400@sscl.uwo.ca
Subject: jays game
Organization: Social Science Computing Laboratory
Keywords: score?
Nntp-Posting-Host: conslt.sscl.uwo.ca
Lines: 6
anyone know the outcome of tonight's jays game?
-home runs?
-winning pitcher?
eco gods at U.W.O
From: sheehan@aludra.usc.edu (Joseph Sheehan)
Subject: Re: Young Catchers
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 120
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu
Summary: Lopez is better than current Brave catchers!
Keywords: Solid != good
>In article <mssC50qA5.Dtv@netcom.com> mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr5.151834.14257@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
I'm still catching up from Spring Break, but bear with me...
>in the bigs, especially when they haven't even played AAA ball.  We
>certainly believe this kid is going to be very good some day, but
>there is really no need to rush him, especially since we have a mega-
>million dollar staff that is probably well served by a battery-mate
>who is expereienced in game calling and pitcher handling.  Lopez'
>time will come.  Let's give him some time in AAA.
Javy Lopez has proven, over 1400+ AB in the minor leagues, that he is
ready to play in the majors. He is *not* being rushed. Players who are
clearly too good for AA and play behind stiffs at the major league level
are wasting their time, and may actually have a court case against
major league management for keeping them, at AAA.
>No.  Maybe I need to improve my writing skills.  Lopez, who is very
>ordinary defensively, is not likely to hit so well at age 22
>
Unless Lopez is *me* defensively (I'm 5'7'', 165 and born to play
second base :-)), he belongs in the major leagues.
>>training.  What does he have to do to earn a chance?  Maybe not a full
>>time job, but at least a couple starts and a few AB for him to prove
>>his worth?
>
>Gee.  I don't know.  17 abs sounds pretty good to me!  About as good
>as your reasoning that the kid should play a back-up role rather
>than start every day at AAA.  Talk about *me* as a GM...
Valentine isn't saying he should back up. He's saying he should be put
in a position to *win* the job in the major leagues, which, IMHO, he
would if given the opportunity. (Val, if I'm misinterpreting, please
let me know.)
>>So far you have come up with two arguments against Lopez:
>>1) He is very ordinary defensively.
>>2) He is young, and most players suck when they are young.
>
>>The first is irrelevant.  He's trying to make the majors with his bat.
>>And the second involves seriously warped reasoning.
>>
>>-Valentine
>OK.  Most players are not ready for the bigs at age 22 (see current
>related posting on Clayton, one of my favorites).  Most players
>benefit, rather than being stagnant or hurt, by playing at AAA.
>Most catchers need to be solid defensively players to help their
>clubs in the bigs.  Those are the arguments against Lopez for the
>Braves for this year.
But the players who *are* ready are 1)the best and 2) the ones most
likely to benefit from being in the majors. Javy Lopez is not a middle-
of-the-road prospect. He's the real thing. NOW.
Again, the most important thing a player can do is hit. Lopez does that
miles better than Olson or Berryhill. If his defense is good enough for
Greenville, or Richmond, it's good enough for Atlanta. If he really was
awful defensively, he would no longer be a catcher. See Sprague, Ed.
>Now.  The Braves have two catchers who have demonstrated solid
>abilities to call games, to work with the pitchers, to throw out
>runners.  Not superstars mind you, but solid, experienced veterans.
>The Braves have a very solid lineup with two big bats in the
>outfield, an excellent platoon at first, a solid MVP candidate
>at third and one of the better hitting shortstops.  The center
>field platoon will probably hit .300.  However good Lopez'
>what they have to offset the differential in experience and
>defensive ability.  The kid *will* improve playing at AAA, and
>he probably won't being a reserve with the big club.
Oh, where to start... OK. First of all, solid != good. I want good players.
Solid is one of those words used to describe nice white guys who really
aren't very good at baseball. Think of it as "TWG" without the caps.
It's a losing strategy to say, "We have solid guys, we don't need to improve."
You used it four times in that paragraph, BTW.
Same for experienced. I might add, though, that Greg Olson and Damon
Berryhill aren't exactly Carter and Fisk. Olson has played three years,
Berryhill five, although 90 and 91 were a wash. The only difference,
IMHO, between Olson and Valle is the supporting cast.
"Two big bats." Hrm. I like Justice, but I find Mr. Gant's trend disturbing.
Call it one and a maybe. The Braves' platoon is OK, but neither player
has *any* value outside of the platoon. Bream vs. LH and Hunter vs. RH
are awful. I'll leave the thirdbase comment alone. Pendleton has wasted
too much bandwidth already. If the CF platoon hits .300, I'll retrace
Mr. Likhani's midnight run down Forbes, and I live in NY and LA.
(Got that, Mike?)
And doesn't Cox call pitches, anyway?
>goodness.  Do you believe the other poster who thinks Lopez
>is being held down because of his future earning potential?
>Why on earth do you people thinkthe Braves made this decision?
>Are they idiots who have built this ballclub?  Jeeeesh...
Nope. They're baseball management, possible the most short-sighted
collection of people in the nation. Do you not believe this goes on,
Mark? Do you think Frank Thomas needed those three months in AAA in
1990? Or Cal Eldred wasn't *really* better than Ricky Bones last year?
>And *I'm* the treasure...
You're mostly polite; make defensible, if flawed cases; have wit and
have, in the past, admitted being wrong. That does qualify you on r.s.b.
We'll make an SDCN out of you, yet :-)
>--	The Beastmaster
>Mark Singer
>mss@netcom.com
--
sheehan@aludra.usc.edu		"...Greg Gohr, pitching more like
Voice: 213 743 0456		Tipper Gore, I'm afraid..."--
Linda Cohn, SportsCenter 4/8/93
From: st902415@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Adam Levin)
Subject: Re: Best Sportwriters...
Reply-To: st902415@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Lines: 23
In article <C5K7nK.7tv@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, rkoffler@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Bighelmet) writes:
>csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby) writes:
>
>
>>Since someone brought up sports radio, howabout sportswriting???
>
>I happen to be a big fan of Jayson Stark.  He is a baseball writer for the
>Philadelphia Inquirer.  Every tuesday he writes a "Week in Review" column.
>He writes about unusual situations that occured during the week.  Unusual
>stats.  He has a section called "Kinerisms of the Week" which are stupid
>lines by Mets brodcaster Ralph Kiner.  Every year he has the LGTGAH contest.
>That stands for "Last guy to get a hit."  He also writes for Baseball
>America.  That column is sort of a highlights of "Week in Review."  If you
>can, check his column out sometime.  He might make you laugh.
Might? You'd have to have no sense of humor at all not to! My favorite
stuff are the Zero Heros, players who haven't hit homers in a long time,
the LGTGAH (who is that named after, I can't remember), and the box score
line of the week. Incidentally, I just found out that the column has been
moved to Sundays. I get my Dad to send it to me up here in Boston every
week. Great stuff!
Adam "A Phaithful Phillies Phan" Levin
From: steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Re: PHILS, NL EAST NOT SO WEAK
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Lines: 10
In <1993Apr15.214133.3371@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu> apanjabi@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
[...]
>BRAVES HIT LIKE A AAA CLUB
Shouldn't this read "Braves Hitters are at the AAA Club?"
--
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic
"It is considered good to look wise, especially when not
overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball
From: binkley@let.rug.nl (P.A. Binkley)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Lines: 7
Nntp-Posting-Host: pco204a.let.rug.nl
Organization: Faculteit der Letteren, Rijksuniversiteit Groningen, NL
There was an article on Jewish major leaguers in a recent issue of "Elysian
Fields", what used to be the "Minnesota Review of Baseball".  As I recall,
it had an amazing amount of research, with a long list of players and a
large bibliography.
Peter Binkley
binkley@let.rug.nl
From: st902415@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Adam Levin)
Subject: Early BBDDD Returns?
Reply-To: st902415@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Lines: 13
Just curious if anyone has started to standout early in the season in the
BB DDD this year. I expect the Phillies staff, while getting the wins,
would have to rank up there. Luis Gonzalez and Derrick May are among
the early league leaders, and all 6 of their bombs have come at the
Phils' expense. Neither of them have exactly been know for their tater
prowess in the past.
How have the Rockies been early? I know Mile High has produced a ton of
runs, but is it the launching pad everyone expected yet?
A concerned fan of the BB DDD,
Adam "Witness to the Phillies lone loss of the season so far" Levin
From: randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea)
Subject: Royals
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Lines: 14
The Royals are darkness.  They are the void of our time.
When they play, shame descends upon the land like a cold front
from Canada.   They are a humiliation to all who have lived and
all who shall ever live.   They are utterly and completely
doomed.
Other than that, I guess they're OK.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Randall Rhea                                        Informix Software, Inc.
Project Manager, MIS Sales/Marketing Systems    uunet!pyramid!infmx!randall
From: crichar@eskimo.com (Craig S. Richardson)
Subject: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series
Article-I.D.: eskimo.C5JCK0.DEA
Distribution: na
Organization: Eskimo North (206) 367-3837 {eskimo.com}
Lines: 35
In article <1993Apr15.123803.4618@webo.dg.com> lyford@dagny.webo.dg.com (Lyford Beverage) writes:
>In article <1993Apr13.202037.9485@cs.cornell.edu>, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>|> In article <rudyC5Fr3q.1CL@netcom.com> rudy@netcom.com (Rudy Wade) writes:
>|> >In article <C5FMxD.2pM@cs.dal.ca> niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gord Niguma) writes:
>|> >>. He probably didn't even have as good a season as
>|> >>Alomar last year.
>|> >
[snip]
>|> Uh, yes.  Baerga has a lot of flash, but Alomar was the better hitter
>|> last year.
>|>
[stats deleted - we've all seen them by now]
>This is fascinating.  You say that Alomar was the better hitter last
>year, and immediately follow that up with numbers showing that Baerga
>had a better year.  The only category that I see which shows an advantage
>for Alomar is OBP.
I nominate this last bit for "Anti-Stathead Quote of the Week".
Alomar only has a 50 point advantage in the most important offensive
category, while Baerga, who studied in the Joe Carter School of Out-Burning,
has more impressive mediot stats, largely due to opportunities rather
than quality.
The lines are fairly close in value, but edge to Alomar.
Now Baerga ain't chopped liver, but Alomar is still the man to beat among
AL second basemen...
--Craig
--
Craig S. Richardson (crichar@eskimo.com - formerly eskimo.celestial.com))
GM - Pullman Sleepers (OBFBL)           GM - Seattle Rainiers (IFL)
GM/Manager - Tacoma Black Adders (IBL)  GM - New Jack City Highlanders (KL)
Tacoma Black Adders - A Growing, Excited Team! - "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
From: kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Kevin Day)
Subject: Re: Lots of runs
Reply-To: kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Kevin Day)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD
Lines: 18
In rec.sport.baseball, CROSEN1@ua1vm.ua.edu (Charles Rosen) writes:
>I have noticed that this year has had a lot of high scoring games (at least the
>NL has).  I believe one reason are the expansion teams.  Any thoughts?
>
Except for the fact that there seems to be a lot of high scoring AL
games also and I don't think the expansion teams directly affect them.
K. Scott Day   (kday@oasys.dt.navy.mil)
Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center
Code 1252
Bethesda, Maryland 20084-5000
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*    "The point to remember is that what the government gives
*     it must first take away."
*                                        -John S. Coleman
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kyee@bnlux1.bnl.gov (kenton yee)
Subject: proposed catcher re-sub rule
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Lines: 19
A lot of teams carry 3 catchers on their 25 man roster,
but the 3rd catcher is seldom ever used.  He is only
insurance in case of extra innings or the 2nd catcher
is injured during a game.     So to free up this roster
spot for an extra pinch hitter or reliever, why not
invoke a catcher re-substitution rule:
If the last roster catcher on a team is
injured during a game, the team is permitted
to substitute in his place for defensive purposes
a catcher who has previously been yanked from
the game.
Given this rule, a team wouldn't need 3 roster
catchers.  The 3rd catcher could be playing
in AAA or be a non-roster bullpen catcher.
Ken
From: dswartz@osf.org (Dan Swartzendruber)
Subject: Re: Dopson Pitches First Shutout; Red Sox Win 6-0
Organization: Open Software Foundation - Research Institute
Lines: 18
In article <C5r5vt.941@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (OrioleFan@uiuc) writes:
>jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:
[deleted]
>	Someone told me this game started at 10:05 cdt.  Is this true??/ Who
>in their right mind would go to a game on monday at 11AM????
Keep in mind this was in Massachussetts.  Today was Patriots Day, a state
holiday.  I think it might be a floating holiday, but given that the
Marathon also happens the same day, most people don't go in.
--
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
Dan S.
From: 00mbstultz@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Subject: ALL-TIME PEAK PLAYERS
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's
Lines: 195
Last week I posted the ALL-TIME GREATEST PLAYERS (and haphazardly misspelled
several names--SORRY!)  This week, it's time for the greatest PEAK players.
I evaluated the following players on 4 consectutive seasons which constituted
their "prime" or "peak" years.  (3 was too few; 5 seemed to many--so I settled
for 4).  Sources, as usual, include Total Baseball 1993 and my own (biased)
opinions.
Here goes, feel free to comment.
1.  Ted Williams (includes season after war)--missed actual peak years
2.  Babe Ruth
3.  Walter Johnson
4.  Mickey Mantle
5.  Mike Schmidt  (actual peak year shortened by strike)
6.  Barrry Bonds  (currently at peak)
7.  Honus Wagner
8.  Ty Cobb
9.  Tris Speaker
10.  Willie Mays
11.  Lefty Grove
12.  Sandy Koufax
13.  Joe Morgan
14.  Ed Walsh
15.  Christy Mathewson
16.  Lou Gehrig
17.  Jimmie Foxx
18.  Cal Ripken Jr.
19.  Pete Alexander
20.  Cy Young
21.  Tim Raines
22.  Rickey Henderson  (again, strike year '81 included)
23.  Carl Yastrzemski
24.  Jackie Robinson
25.  Joe DiMaggio
26.  Rogers Hornsby
27.  George Sisler
28.  Eddie Collins
29.  Hank Aaron
30.  Stan Musial
31.  Joe Jackson
32.  Wade Boggs
33.  Charlie Gehringer
34.  Ernie Banks
35.  Bob Gibson
36.  Carl Hubbell
37.  Robin Yount
38.  Rod Carew
39.  Chuck Klein
40.  Willie McCovey
41.  Frank Robinson
42.  Tom Seaver
43.  Roger Clemens  (arguably, still in peak)
44.  Mel Ott
45.  Frank Baker
46.  Nap Lajoie  (peak came in suspect league)
47.  Dizzy Trout
48.  George Brett
49.  Mordecai Brown
50.  Ryne Sandberg
1B  Peak
1) Gehrig
2) Foxx
3) Sisler
4) McCovey
5) Greenberg
6) Frank Thomas (projected--sorry)
7) Dick Allen
8) Johnny Mize
9) Eddie Murray (yes, Mr.Consistency had a peak)
10) Bill Terry
2B
1) Morgan
2) J.Robinson
3) Collins
4) Hornsby
5) Gehringer
6) Carew (treated as a 2B, even though played 1B)
7) Sandberg
8) Bobby Grich
9) Nap Lajoie
10) Bill Herman, Mazeroski (tough call)
3B)
1) Schmidt
2) Boggs
3) F.Baker
4) Brett
5) Ed Mathews
6) Ron Santo
7) Harland Clift
8) Ken Boyer
9) Buddy Bell
10) Darrell Evans
SS
1) Wagner
2) Ripken
3) Banks
4) Yount
5) John Lloyd (estimated)
6) Arky Vaughan
7) Barry Larkin  (still in peak?)
8) Lou Boudreau
9) Ozzie Smith
10) Joe Sewell
LF
1) Williams
2) Ba.Bonds
3) Raines
4) Henderson (actually had 2 peaks; 80-83 & 83-86)
5) Yastrzemski
6) Musial
7) J.Jackson
8) Ralph Kiner
9) Al Simmons
10) George Foster
11) Willie Stargell
CF
1) Mantle
2) Cobb
3) Speaker
4) Mays
5) DiMaggio
6) Oscar Charleston (again, estimated)
7) Duke Snider
8) Ken Griffey Jr.  (personal assumption)
9) Kirby Puckett
10) Richie Ashburn
11) Dale Murphy (strike season?)
RF
1) Ruth
2) Aaron
3) Klein
4) F.Robinson
5) Ott
6) Roberto Clemente
7) Tony Gwynn
8) Dave Parker
9) Reggie Jackson
10) Harry Heilmann
11) Jose Canseco
12) Darryl Strawberry
C
1) Josh Gibson (estimated)
2) Mickey Cochrane
3) Gary Carter
4) Johnny Bench
5) Roy Campanella
6) Yogi Berra
7) Bill Dickey
8) Gabby Hartnett
9) Elston Howard
10) Ted Simmons
11) Joe Torre
P
1) W.Johnson
2) Grove
3) Koufax
4) Walsh
5) Mathewson
6) Alexander
7) Young
8) Gibson
9) Hubbell
10) Seaver
11) Clemens
12) Satchel Paige (estimated)
13) D.Trout
14) Juan Marichal
15) Mordecai Brown
16) Joe Wood
17) Dave Steib
18) Jim Palmer
19) Bob Lemon
20) Fergie Jenkins
RP
1) Who cares?
I hope there are some surprises here: Raines above Muisial?  Carter above
Bench?  Ripken above Banks?  Bonds above Mays?
Check the numbers of each player in comparison to the numbers of the rest
of the players that year(s), and you'll see that I'm fairly close with
this ranking system (which is primarily based on Total Player Rating) for
four consecutive years.
Enjoy,
Mike
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Jack Morris
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Lines: 71
In <48178@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:
>In article <1993Apr19.212428.7530@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>, maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>The facts are that Morris
>|> has shown us that he has what it takes to play on a WS winning club.
>|> Clemens hasn't.
>What *does* it take to play on a WS winning club?
We have no way of knowing because we cannot separate Morris' contribu-
tion  from the rest of the team's.  There is only one way of determin-
ing "best" in baseball.  And that is by looking at the  scoreboard  at
the  end  of  the game.  Each game determines which *team* is the best
that day.  At the end of the season, the team that was  the  best  the
most  often  is  the best in the division.  The playoffs determine the
best of the best.  But the point is that the only decision making pro-
cess  used to determine the "best" is the score of the game and it re-
lates to the *teams*.  Not the individual players.  There is no method
inherent  in  baseball of comparing individual performances.  And that
is how it should be, because, after all, baseball is a team game.
To say that one player is better than another is to be able to say ab-
solutely  that  player A's team would have played better with player B
in their lineup.  Sheer speculation.  Impossible to ascertain.
If you want to select a group of statistics and claim that Clemens has
done  better  with those statistics as a criteria, then fine.  But you
have  to  be  able  to  prove  that  those  statistics   measure   the
individual's  contribution  to  winning  the WS - because  that is the
only measure of "best" that has any meaning in the  context  of  base-
ball.   So  until you can prove that Clemens contributes to a WS cham-
pionship more than Morris your evaluation of  Clemens is totally  sub-
jective  and  is  mere opinion.  I have yet to see that any of you can
predict a WS winner with any greater accuracy than Jeanne Dixon.
>The fact is that Morris didn't "win" any ballgames, Toronto did, in
>spite of Morris' "contribution".   This has been explained to you
Exactly.  The Jays won with Morris pitching.   And  Boston  wins  with
Clemens pitching.  I am not saying that Morris is better than Clemens.
I am saying that individual comparisons between  players  are  totally
meaningless  and  that anyone claiming that Clemens is better based on
his ERA has missed the point of what baseball is all about.
>many, many times and you are either too stupid or too stubborn to grasp it.
You don't have to be rude.
>You are completely consumed by the post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy.
For you to say that means that you have either missed the entire point
of  my  argument, or you yourself have committed a fallacy - Ignoratio
Elenchi.  I am not saying that Morris is better than Clemens   because
he   has  more   rings   (although  I  have,  tongue in cheek, claimed
that in the past).  I am saying that it is impossible to  isolate   an
individual's  performance   from that of his team's for the purpose of
comparing that individual's performance with another individual's per-
formance.
The stats are a nice hobby and  that's  about  it.  There  is  no  new
knowledge being produced.  So when a poster claims that Morris is better
than Clemens because he has more rings, the poster is no more nor less
incorrect than the rest of you baying hounds.
--
cordially, as always,                      maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
"So many morons...
rm                                                   ...and so little time."
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Subject: Re: HBP? BB? BIG-CAT?
Distribution: na
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego
Lines: 15
Nntp-Posting-Host: mbongo.ucsd.edu
In article <C5r7tv.36s@odin.corp.sgi.com>, kubey@sgi.com (Ken Kubey) writes:
I don't
|> blame players like Galarraga, Dawson and McGee when they swing at
|> a strike and put the ball in play.
Well, no problem!  But I get pretty annoyed when they swing at non-strikes
and make outs.  Especially ball four on the 3-2 counts...
Dave
--
Dave DeMers			 	        demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	0114		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu (Dave 'Almost Cursed the Jays' Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Jose Canseco's swing - 1992 vs. 1986.
Nntp-Posting-Host: staff.tc.umn.edu
Organization: Li'l Carlos and the Hormones
Lines: 68
In article <C5r5B8.D1u@ucdavis.edu> ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary 'Man From'
Villanueva Huckabay) writes:
>
>It's certainly not very easy.  What I do is use frame advance on the tape,
>and simply count the frames.  Five times, and try to throw out any outliers.
>It's not perfect, but it's better than a blow to the head with a large
>metal object.
Ah, so you finally found a use for that super slo-mo and frame advance
other than scrutinizing "Sorority Babes in Heat". Congrats!
>I wish I had FILMS instead of tapes, preferably at 48fps rather than 24,
>but while I'm at it, I'd like to have ten million dollars, and be able
>to eat anything I want and never gain any weight, either.
Trust me, you'd have a helluva time manipulating them. Besides, if you
converted the film to video you'd have all kinds of artifacts because of the
difference in frame rate (unless you're an expert at doing 3/2 pulldown for
a laserdisc company or something).
>Gary's list of the ten slowest bats in baseball:
Hey, no fair! What about 'Fettucine' Alfredo Griffin? The guy practically
has to pivot the bat around along with his body.
>Gary's list of "How the HELL can he hit like that?"
>
>1.  Julio Franco
>2.  Phil Plantier
>9.  Darren Daulton
Daulton doesn't strike me as all that strange. He's a little bit quiet at
the plate but, like Franco, gets the bat through the hitting zone on a level
plane. The first time I watched Julio Franco, I didn't think *anyone* could
hit like that. Now I marvel at how easy he makes it look; every time he makes
contact, it's *solid*. He's got good power to all fields and rarely is he
caught not ready for a pitch.
I wonder if Phil Plantier had a severe bout with hemorrhoids and had to
practice his swing while 'on the throne'? :-) Sure looks like it :-)
How 'bout one to add to your list: Travis Fryman? The guy plants his front
foot and seems to swing *across* his body. He generates a lot of power, but
I keep thinking he could generate even more if he could get a better pivot
out of his hips.
>Gary's list of "I'd give Dave Kirsch's kidneys to have a swing like that."
Well, they're already spoken for (by several people), but ..
I'd add Robbie Alomar's name to the list, among others. I really like Dean
Palmer's swing, for some twisted reason, as well as Pedro Munoz's swing.
>That's all for now.  I'm looking at Derrick May's tapes tonight, along
>with Troy Neel's.  That guy is a serious ox.
A thought about May: It looks like they've taught him to turn on the ball.
IMHO, he's going to fall in love with his newfound power and start pulling
off the ball to the point that he's going to see *lots* of sinkers/sliders
low and away. Unless he adjusts quickly and starts rifling doubles to left
and left-center, IMHO you're going to see a good number of weak grounders to
the right side of the infield in the next month.
--
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch      Blue Jays - Do it again in '93
kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu                        New .. quotes out of context!
"Not to beat a dead horse, but it's been a couple o' weeks .. this
disappoints me..punishments..discharges..jackhammering.." - Stephen Lawrence
From: vigil@esca.com (Sandra Vigil)
Subject: Re: Hispanic All-Star team
Organization: ESCA Corporation, Bellevue WA
Lines: 49
icop@csa.bu.edu (Antonio Pera) writes:
> Hispanic magazine(April 1993) had a couple of interesting articles about
>Hispanic players including its Hispanic All-Star team.
>Some of the major points are:
NPR's Morning Edition aired a report this morning (4/19) on
Hispanic/Latin American players in MLB and how they have many of
the same problems faced by black/negro/African American players
when they first entered the league.  However, although baseball
has adjusted to the presence of black players, many Hispanic
players still labor under the stereotype of being "fireballs,
hot blooded, flashy".  The report also emphasised that despite
the rantings (my word) of Jessie Jackson about baseballs
discrimination against black players in its upper echelons,
baseball has actually done much better by black players than
Hispanic players.
Another interesting point was the language barrier problem.  The
reporter elaborated on an interview with Ruben Sierra which he
gave in Spanish to a Spanish speaking newspaper reporter with
the fact that there are maybe 2 major baseball writers that
speak Spanish, despite the fact that Spanish is one of (if not
the) easiest languages to learn, so easy that the author Cormac
McCarthy learned Spanish at age 50 in order to research his
book, _All The Pretty Horses_.  Yet, few MLB organizations
employ Spanish speaking personel, one of the exceptions being
the Oakland A's.
Another point:
Nearly 90% of Latin American players have some African blood.
Yet, most report that they'd never really felt black until
playing ball in the US.
Ironically enough, it is the early presence of Latin American
baseball players in the Major Leagues that support the idea that
baseball was integrated before the arrival of Jackie Robinson,
as many "light black" or "brown", Latin Americans were
incorporated into baseball.
/S
--
"I did not know the cure for the disease      -------------------
of images, but I believed in the healing     |  Sandra Vigil   |
power of words and stories."                 |  vigil@esca.com |
- Until the End of the World     -------------------
From: dkl@cs.arizona.edu (David K. Lowenthal)
Subject: Re: Braves & Giants
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson
Lines: 14
In article <13536@news.duke.edu> fls@keynes.econ.duke.edu (Forrest Smith) writes:
>
>	Cox should've protested the game the second time the garbage got
>thrown at his outfielders.  He should also have protested the game at the
>point where Ron Gant was assessed the second strike in the ninth, on the
>grounds that he (Cox) was on the field and time should have been called.
Both protests would be denied, of course.  The umpire's judgement
determines the garbage thing, although I think the game should be
called (but that's my personal opinion...doesn't matter).  There
is time only when the ump says, so the second argument is baseless.
--dave
From: dkl@cs.arizona.edu (David K. Lowenthal)
Subject: Re: Braves & Giants
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson
Lines: 13
>>	The situation with the Giants' bleachers is a case in point for the
>>need for a commissioner.
This is true, but the main thing the commish i.e. Selig needs to do
is to suspend Bobby Cox.  You *cannot* allow a team to come out at
the ump as the Braves did.  I usually rip umps, but in this case,
the players were dead wrong.  Cox should go for 5 games.  If I
had ever umped a game where that happened, I'd have ejected every
player that came out.  Only Cox and Gant would have been spared, and
then Cox would have gone in the ensuing argument.
--dave
From: dpassage@soda.berkeley.edu (David G. Paschich)
Subject: Re: HBP? BB? BIG-CAT?
Organization: Organization?  Who cares?  You just gotta say "Go Bears!"
Lines: 14
Distribution: na
<1qv9psINNsj6@lynx.unm.edu> <C5r7tv.36s@odin.corp.sgi.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: kubey@sgi.com's message of Mon, 19 Apr 1993 23:27:29 GMT
In article <C5r7tv.36s@odin.corp.sgi.com> kubey@sgi.com (Ken Kubey) writes:
I suppose a foul ball machine (like Brett Butler) is pretty valuable,
but I'd rather watch (and root for) the lower OBP guys who can
actually hit the ball.
And I'd rather watch (and root for) a team that scores lots of runs
and wins games.
Of course, I'm rooting for the Rockies and Andres anyway.  But that's
for irrational hometown reaons.  I also root for Frank Thomas. :)
David Paschich
From: mjones@watson.ibm.com (Mike Jones)
Subject: Re: Jack Morris
Reply-To: mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM.
Nntp-Posting-Host: fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com
Organization: IBM AIX/ESA Development, Kingston NY
Lines: 97
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>In <1993Apr19.053221.11240@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr19.024222.11181@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs902043@ariel.yorku.ca (SHAWN LUDDINGTON) writes:
>>>Hey Valentine, I don't see Boston with any world series rings on their
>>>fingers.
>>Yah.  So?
>>>Damn, Morris now has three and probably the Hall of Fame in his
>>>future.
>>He certainly didn't earn his last one.  *HOW* many games did he blow
>>in the World Series?  All of the ones he started?
>He certainly did earn it!  He was a valuable member of the Blue Jay team.
Not particularly *in* the World Series. During the season, he was probably
more valuable than, say, putting Olerud out there to pitch, but yeah, he
*was* valuable in getting them there. In the postseason, he sucked dirty
canal water through a straw. The Jays won *in spite* of Morris much more
than *because of* him.
>>>Therefore, I would have to say Toronto easily made the best signing.
>>Oh, yes.  Definitely.  Therefore Morris is better than Clemens.
>Your definition of "better" refers to some measurement on a scale that
>has nothing to do with winning WS rings.
Umm, Roger? Return with us to those halcyon days of a few postings ago,
where the poster Valentine was replying to used # of WS rings as a measure
of better. The concept is called "context", and you should really become
familiar with it someday.
>The facts are that Morris
>has shown us that he has what it takes to play on a WS winning club.
>Clemens hasn't.
Unless this transaltes to "Clemens hasn't gone into Lou Gorman's office with
a large caliber handgun and refused to come out until he'd been traded to
the Jays," I'm at a complete loss as to any possible meaning for it.
>You can go on about what Clemens has done in the
>past and claim that he is "better" than Morris if you want to.  But
>the facts are that Morris has shown us that he can win and Clemens
>hasn't.
What on earth does this mean? Over their careers, Clemens has "won" 68% of
the games he's started, Morris 58%. Per year, Clemens has averaged nearly 17
wins, Morris just under 15. Would you grant the proposition that preventing
the other team from scoring increases your chances of winning  a game? If
so, then consider that Clemens allows 2.8 runs/9 innings pitched. Morris
allows nearly a run more per nine innings. In fact, Jack Morris has never in
his career had an ERA for a single year as good as Clemens' career ERA. But
I forget, in the Maynardverse there was obviously some mystical significance
to Buckner missing that grounder in 1986; had Morris been on the Sox, it
would have been a routine groundout, right?
>Whether or not Clemens is better by your standard of measurement
>is totally meaningless.  The object of the game is not to compile
>high figures in statistics that you have chosen to feel are important.
>The object of the game is to contribute to WS victories.  But this
>has been patiently explained to you many, many times and you are
>either too stupid or too stubborn to grasp it.
Speaking of stupid, it has been patiently (and not-so-patiently) explained to
you many times that attributing greatness to players based on the
accomplishments of their teams makes about as much sense as claiming that
a racecar has the most attractive paint job because it won the race. Your
continued failure to not only understand but even to intelligently reply to
any of the arguments presented leads me to the conclusion that you must have
spent a few too many games in goal without a mask.
>>Don't give me that shit.  If Boston had Alomar, Olerud, Henke, and
>>Ward while Toronto had Rivera, Jack Clark, Jeff Reardon, things would
>>have looked a little different last fall.  Give credit where credit is
>>due.  This lavishing of praise on Morris makes me sick.
>Yes and the dog would have caught the rabbit too...forget about what
>didn't happen and open your eyes, for once, and look out there and
>see what is REALLY happening.  Forget about how Morris "shouldn't"
>have won 21 with an ERA over 4.
>When Morris pitched, last year, the Jays won.  Stop crying about it and
>get on with life.
No one is crying; the Jays won, and as a team they certainly deserved to win
at least the AL East. They performed well in two short series and won the
World Series, and I congratulate them for it. As a Red Sox fan, I hope they
keep Morris. I was happy when they picked up Stewart, and elated when they
traded for Darrin Jackson. You see, unless you believe in some mystical link
between Morris and the offense, you can hardly help but believe that the man
was credited with so many wins last year because he got lucky. Luck runs
out, just like it did in 1982 when he pitched 50-odd more innings than 1992,
gave up exactly *one* earned run more than in 1992, and went 17-16.
Seriously, Roger, I'd really like to hear your explanation of the difference
between the 1982 Morris and the 1992 Morris. Which one was a better pitcher,
and why? Did Morris somehow "learn how to win" in the intervening ten years?
If so, then why did he go 18-12 in 1991 with Minnesota with an ERA over half
a run lower than 1992?
Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
Don't be humble, you're not that great.
From: mjones@watson.ibm.com (Mike Jones)
Subject: Re: Jack Morris
Reply-To: mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM.
Nntp-Posting-Host: fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com
Organization: IBM AIX/ESA Development, Kingston NY
Lines: 57
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>It sure does.  And it all depends on the definition that you use for "better".
>Yours is based on what could have been and mine is based on what really
>happened.
Well, actually, most of ours is based on what really happened and yours is
based on some fantasy of how it happened. But that's OK, I understand you
have a hockey background. Stats like "plus/minus" make RBI look good.
>>Is it Viola's fault that Boston had no offense?  Is it *because* of Morris that
>>the Blue Jays had such a strong offense?  Don't tell me that Morris has this
>>magical ability to cause the offensive players to score more runs.
>This is the perfect example of your problem.  You are isolating Viola's
>contribution from the rest of the team's efforts.  You can only do
>this if you can say for sure what the team would have done without
>Viola.  Only then can you compare.  But you cannot know how the team
>would have done without Viola.  Your analysis is fallacious.
OK, how about a straigh answer, then. Here's a very simele question to which
I'm sure a fair number of us are very interesed in the answer to. Please
answer yes or no, Roger:
Can a pitcher cause the offensive players on his team to score more runs?
AL only, please.
For anyone else following along, it is a well-known and demonstrable fact
that a team's win-loss record is closely related to the number of runs the
team scores and the number the team allows. It's not a definite,
hard-and-fast function, but there is definitely a correlation. In fact, as a
rule of thumb, if teams A and B both score X runs and team A allows Y runs,
for every 10 runs fewer than Y that team B allows, it will win another game.
So, for instance, if we look at the 1991 Toronto Blue Jays, we find that
they scored 780 runs and allowed 682, of which Morris allowed 114. All other
things being equal, if Frank Viola, with his 3.44 ERA had replaced Jack
Morris for the 240.2 innings Morris threw (plausible, since Viola threw 238
for Boston), the "Red Jays" would have allowed about 15 fewer runs, or
enough for 1-2 more wins. Now, that doesn't take into account that Viola
pitched half his innings in Fenway, which is a harder park to pitch in
(particularly for a lefthander) than Skydome. So, um, Roger. Unless you
really do believe that a pitcher can somehow affect the number of runs
his team scores, could you enlighten us to the fallacy in this
analysis? Clearly, it would be foolhardy to claim that Viola would
necessarily have put up a 3.44 if he had been on the Jay last year, but
that is not the claim. We look at what the actual performances were and
evaluate Viola's as better than Morris' in the sense that "had Morris
performed as Viola did, his team would have been better off."
>It takes an open mind to really truly understand what is happening out
>here in the real world guys.
This is true, but not so open that your brain falls out.
Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
Computer...if you don't open that exit hatch this moment I shall zap straight
off to your major data banks and reprogram you with a very large ax. Got
that?
- Zaphod Beeblebrox
From: mjones@watson.ibm.com (Mike Jones)
Subject: Re: So Far , So Good (THE RED SOX)
Reply-To: mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM.
Nntp-Posting-Host: fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com
Organization: IBM AIX/ESA Development, Kingston NY
Lines: 68
ec003b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Wizard) writes:
>I have posted two new postings on the net, since I discovered how to use it,
>and both times I received redicule for predicting the Red Sox as high as
>Third in the AL East.  Id like to hear why it is people dont think the Sox
>can be as high as Third this year.  Here are some of my observations:
Well, had you been a bit less exuberant in both the tone and substance of
your predictions, the responses would probably have been a bit more
measured. Be that as it may....
>1. Roger and Frank are in vintage form, and the Sox are rresponding to them.
Clemens is always in this form, and Viola isn't really performing beyond
what might reasonably have been expected. How do you know that the Sox are
responding to them, and not to Al Bumbry, Hobson, or (my most likely
suspect) new hitting coach Mike Easler? I certainly am more likely to give
Easler credit for Mo Vaughhn's hot start than Clemens or Viola.
>2. Greenwell is hitting as he did before his injuries.
This was the optimistic scenario, but not unreasonably so. He hasn't shown
much power yet, though.
>3. Dawson is providing the leadership and some hitting they need from him.
How can you tell that Dawson is providing the leadership? Perhaps it's
Calderon? Perhaps it's Clemens and Viola? Maybe Hobson is finally showing
those people skills he was supposed to have when they hired him. Or maybe
it's all a myth. And Dawson has been hitting reasonably well, but not as
well as Greenwell, Vaughn, Cooper, or Fletcher.
>4. Russell is finishing well.
In three games. Why don't we look at this one again in, say, July?
>5. Fletcher is hitting well as a leadoff hitter.
A bit better than could reasonably have been expected. But don't forget that
Zupcic looked like Wade Boggs lite for about 75 AB's last year. Beware of
small sample sizes. Still, if Fletcher hits as well as he did last year he'd
be a great improvement over any Sox leadoff hitter from last year. Be aware
that his career numbers seem to indicate that he puts up good numbers as
long as he doesn't have to make more than 300 AB or so in a year.
>6. Cooper is hitting well (I think he'll be better then Boggs in the field
>and just as good at the plate)
Ummm...sorry, no. I can buy the "in the field" part, and I think he'll be
better at the plate than the 1992 Boggs, but in general Cooper, while he'll
be a pretty good hitter, couldn't carry Boggs' jockstrap. With a little
luck, he could be the fourth or fifth best 3B in the AL (Martinez, Boggs,
Ventura, and Palmer will all be better).
>If the sox Pitch like last year (they have a better pitchiong staff, now)
>and hit like they are so far, they coiuld run away with thee division. but
>since I think that their hitting and pitching may not be up to the challenge
>of running away with the division, I think that they win be over .500 and at
>least Third if not Second or First.
See, here is where you make that quick left turn off into the aether. .500
is plausible, third is not unlikely, but phrases like "could run away with
the division" are likely to get you a visit from the men in the white
coats. It's not really clear that their staff is better than last year. If
Russell does well, Darwin doesn't go on the DL, and Hesketh doesn't pitch
just barely well enough to avoid losing his spot in the rotation, they could
be better. On the other hand, if Hesketh pitches miserably and they're too
stupid to move him to the pen and bring up Conroy or somebody, Fossas
continues to pitch dismally but they keep giving him innings becasue he's a
lefty, and Russell explodes they could be pretty bad.
Mike Jones | AIX High-End Development | mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
God is a comedian playing to an audience that is afraid to laugh.
- Mark Twain
From: kesslerm@columbia.dsu.edu (MICHAEL KESSLER)
Subject: Box Scores
Lines: 8
Organization: Dakota State University
Lines: 8
I was wondering if anyone types in the box scores each day.
I am at college and am not able to get them till the weekend.
I would be thankful if someone could p-mail the Twins box scores every so
often.
Also I am looking for a Twins 93 schedule.
kesslerm@columbia.dsu.edu
From: lynch@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Howard Lynch)
Subject: Re: PHILLIES SIGN MARK DAVIS
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Lines: 8
I had heard the rumors about LA, Cin, Hou, and SD all being
interested in Mark Davis, so it doesn't surprise me that a
team had to give up something and cash to actually get him.
Lynch "MOB"
ps.  anyone else draft this guy?  i really did and got a
loud cry of "when will you ever give up on this guy" :-)
From: boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell)
Subject: Re: Rockies spoon-feed game to Mets
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Lines: 8
Is it just me, or does Bichette look totally lost in the outfield?  He
misplayed Martinez fly-out into a double against the Expos, misplayed
Alou's single into a triple (Alou tagged out at 3rd after over-sliding
the bag) and now he misplays another out into a 3 run triple...add in his
wonderful batting average and we have one heck of a player!
Don Boell
From: boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell)
Subject: Rockies 2-5, two more errors, 6 more walks
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Lines: 36
Name            Pos   AB    H    2B    3B    HR    RBI    RS    SB    E    AVG
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boston          OF    12    7                        2     6              .583
Galarraga       1B    28   13     3           1      9     2              .464
Tatum           3B     5    2     1                                       .400
Cole            CF    24    9           1            2     8     2        .375
E. Young        2B    28    9     1     1     1      5    10     5    3   .321
Hayes           3B    25    7     1           2      5     2     1    2   .280
Murphy          OF     4    1                        1                    .250
Bichette        RF    21    5                 1      5     3     1        .238
Clark           LF    24    5     2                        2          1   .208
Girardi          C    25    5     1     1            3     2              .200
Castilla        SS     6    1                                         1   .167
Benavides       SS    18    1                        2     1          4   .056
G. Young        OF     1                                   1              .000
PITCHERS         P    12                                                  .000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Totals               233   65     9     3     5     34    37     9   11   .279
Name            L/R   IP    H    R    ER    K    BB    ERA    W    L    S
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wayne            L     2.7  3    0     0    3     2    0.00   0    0    0
Aldred           L     5    4    3     1    1     6    1.80   0    0    0
Smith            R    12.3 15    3     3    2     3    2.19   1    1    0
Ashby            R     5    6    2     2    3     5    3.60   0    0    0
Neid             R    12   15    6     6    5     8    4.50   1    1    0
Parrett          R     5.7  7    3     3    7     3    4.76   0    0    0
Blair            R     5.3  7    5     3    2     3    5.06   0    0    0
Henry            L     6    9    6     5    4     1    7.50   0    1    0
Ruffin           L     3    7    6     5    3     4   15.00   0    1    0
Reed             R     2.7  7    7     7    1     3   23.63   0    0    0
Holmes           R     1.3  6   10     9    1     4   60.75   0    1    0
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Totals                61   86   51    44   32    42    6.49   2    5    0
From: gt0523e@prism.gatech.EDU (Michael Andre Mule)
Subject: Re: Torre: The worst manager?
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 19
In article <93095@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt7469a@prism.gatech.EDU (Brian R. Landmann) writes:
>Later, in the ninth inning with the bases loaded and two outs he puts
>lankford, a 300 hitter with power in as a pinch runner and uses Luis
>Alicea, a 250 hitter with no power as a pinch hitter.  What the Hell
>is he thinking.
Didn't Alicea get a hit, though?
See y'all at the ballyard
Go Braves
Chop Chop
Michael Mule'
--
Michael Andre Mule
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0523e
Internet: gt0523e@prism.gatech.edu
From: kkerr@MK (Kevin Kerr)
Subject: Re: WFAN
Lines: 41
Nntp-Posting-Host: kerr.dseg.ti.com
Organization: ENGINEERING AUTOMATION
In article <C5JC3z.KnD@news.udel.edu> philly@ravel.udel.edu (Robert C Hite) writes:
>From: philly@ravel.udel.edu (Robert C Hite)
>Subject: Re: WFAN
>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 17:19:09 GMT
>In article <1993Apr15.151202.3551@Virginia.EDU> jja2h@Virginia.EDU ("") writes:
>>Does any one out there listen to WFAN?  For those of you who do
>>not know what I am talking about, it is an all sports radio
>>staion in New York.  On a clear night the signal reaches up and
>>down the East coast.  In particular, I want to know how Len
>>Berman and Mike Lupica's show is.  I go to school in Virginia
>>so I can't listen when there are on during the day.  Just
>>wondering.
>The FAN is an okay Sports Radio station, but doesn't come close to
>the ULTIMATE in Sports Radio, 610 WIP in Philadelphia.  The signal
>might not be as powerful, but then again only stations in New York
>feel "obligated" to pollute everyone else's airwaves with a bunch of
>hoodlum Mets fans complaining 24 hours a day.  WIP took two of your
>best sports jockeys too, Jody MacDonald and Steve Fredericks.  610
>WIP is rockin with sports talk from 5:30 AM till midnight, check it
>out anytime your within a few hours of Philadelphia.  If I'm not
>mistaken, WIP has the highest sports talk ratings in the nation?
I'm from Dallas, and you have alot of nerve saying that WFAN has a bunch of
Hoodlum Mets fans.  During the football season, the local cowboy station here
had the WIP on several times for simultanious broadcasts.  I have never heard
a bigger bunch of low intellect, bed wetting ,obnoxious, woofing, cranial
deformed, assholes in my entire life!  The IQ of the average eagles fan must
be in the 10-15 range at best, and they have been known to be big droolers.
(Please no flames) ... <let's see if it works for me Bob>  ;-)
=========================================================================
|   Kevin P. Kerr                            kkerr@mkcase1.dseg.ti.com  |                                                                       #
|                                                                       |
|   S.A.B.R member since '92            GO YANKEES !!!  GO DOLPHINS !!! |
|                                                                       |
|  "Strolling through cyberspace, sniffing the electric wind...."       |
=========================================================================
Subject: Re: PHILS, NL EAST NOT SO WEAK
From: csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby)
Expires: Tue, 27 Apr 1993 04:00:00 GMT
Organization: Virginia Commonwealth University
Lines: 13
That's very true.  I live in Richmond, home of the AAA Richmond
Braves, and they have this guy Ryan Klesko who hit 17 HR's at home
last year.  Now that doesn't sound like a whole lot, BUT the way the
"Diamond" is built, Home runs are a rarity.   In fact, Ron Gant,
Brian Hunter and David Justice all proved they could hit in
Richmond.  When they were sent to the majors, they never came back.
If you can hit in Richmond, you can hit anywhere.
So far, after beating Scranton (Phillies) 9-0 in the first game, the
best team in AAA history has been rather underwhelming.  Too many
expectations I guess.
From: feszcm@warren1c.its.rpi.edu (Michael Jaroslaw Feszczyszyn)
Subject: Re: Fenway Gif
Nntp-Posting-Host: warren1c.its.rpi.edu
Reply-To: feszcm@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Lines: 12
In article <C5JB3D.9nt@umassd.edu>, acsddc@smucs1.umassd.edu writes:
|> I was wondering if anyone had any kind of Fenway Park gif.
|> I would appreciate it if someone could send me one.
|> Thanks in advance.
|>
|> -Dan
Me too! And any Yankee Stadium gifs as well, please.
Thanx in advance,
Mike Feszczyszyn
From: dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane)
Subject: Re: RBI's (was: Notes on Jays/Indians)
Organization: Wayne State University Math Department, Detroit
Distribution: na
Lines: 23
In article <1993Apr15.212014.1782@news.acns.nwu.edu> edo@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Edward Ouellette) writes:
>Me, too... RBI are a worthless stat. Of course, so is stolen bases because
>sometimes runners are in front of a player that would otherwise run. And of
>course pitchers pitch differently with different people on different bases,
>so batting average, slugging and obp out, too.  Hmmm... i guess homers would
>not count then, either.
>My point? RBI might not be a perfect stat but nothing is. And no stat (or lack
>of) can tell me there are no clutch hitters. Maybe no stat CAN tell me,
>either, but some people are... I just know it!!! 8)
But why would you want to use RBI?   RBI is an attempt to measure is some
combination of clutch hitting and power hitting.  If you believe in
clutch hitting, then look at how the guy hit with RISP.  If you want to
see how good of a slugger he is, then look at his slugging average.
In terms of evaluating players, RBI totals are better than nothing.  But
why use them when so many better stats are out there?
--
David Frohardt-Lane   dfl@math.wayne.edu
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Go Tigers, Lions, Pistons, Red Wings and Wolverines !!!!!!!!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: tkevans@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Tim Evans)
Subject: Re: McRae is (Re: Torre: The worst manager?)
Reply-To: tkevans@eplrx7.es.dupont.com
Organization: DuPont Engineering Physics Laboratory
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19
Lines: 15
scott@mccall.com (Scott D. Davis) writes:
>KC(?) news was doing a report on that.  They said that McRae is
>really a batting coach and not a manager.  But for some reason
>he took the job.  Whatever the reason, the Royals need a new
>manager now...while it is too late.
>--
And have Jesse Jackson picket the stadium?
--
Tim Evans                     |    E.I. du Pont de Nemours & Co.
tkevans@eplrx7.es.dupont.com  |    Experimental Station
(302) 695-9353/7395           |    P.O. Box 80357
EVANSTK AT A1 AT ESVAX        |    Wilmington, Delaware 19880-0357
From: tkevans@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Tim Evans)
Subject: Re: Royals
Reply-To: tkevans@eplrx7.es.dupont.com
Organization: DuPont Engineering Physics Laboratory
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19
Lines: 17
randall@informix.com (Randall Rhea) writes:
>The Royals are darkness.  They are the void of our time.
>When they play, shame descends upon the land like a cold front
>from Canada.   They are a humiliation to all who have lived and
>all who shall ever live.   They are utterly and completely
>doomed.
>Other than that, I guess they're OK.
You must not be old enough to remember the A's in KC!
--
Tim Evans                     |    E.I. du Pont de Nemours & Co.
tkevans@eplrx7.es.dupont.com  |    Experimental Station
(302) 695-9353/7395           |    P.O. Box 80357
EVANSTK AT A1 AT ESVAX        |    Wilmington, Delaware 19880-0357
Subject: al stats
From: "michael mcguire" <michael.mcguire@canrem.com>
Reply-To: "michael mcguire" <michael.mcguire@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Lines: 11
I am looking for a source of American League baseball stats for
individual players in the same format as printed in newspapers, ie. I do
not want to provide a list of players and get back nice printed reports
for $35 a week.
Does anyone know of such statistics availability and an idea of the
cost?
--
Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario
416-629-7000/629-7044
From: jfc@athena.mit.edu (John F Carr)
Subject: Re: proposed catcher re-sub rule
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 11
NNTP-Posting-Host: achates.mit.edu
The Red Sox usually have 2 catchers.  I don't think they have a backup now,
but they used to use Randy Kutcher as a backup catcher, as well as a middle
infielder and outfielder.  You don't need a good 3rd catcher, just a
competent one, so you can afford to lose a little catching ability and pick
a player who can be of use elsewhere on the field.
--
John Carr (jfc@athena.mit.edu)
Organization: University of Notre Dame - Office of Univ. Computing
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Subject: Re: Millitello update
Distribution: usa
<1993Apr14.175343.3431@alleg.edu>
Lines: 10
In article <1993Apr14.175343.3431@alleg.edu>, millits@yankee.org (Sam
Millitello) says:
>
>Uhhhh I think I spelled my name correctly. Sam Millitello.
>
uhhhh there are only three l's.
bob vesterman.
Organization: University of Notre Dame - Office of Univ. Computing
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Subject: Re: Yankees win home opener
Distribution: usa
Lines: 7
In article <1993Apr14.175545.3528@alleg.edu>, millits@yankee.org (Sam
Millitello) says:
i'm telling you, sam, three l's.  call up mom and ask.
bob vesterman.
From: mtissand@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael D Tissandier)
Subject: Re: Phillies sweep; Reds awful: Reds report 4-14
Nntp-Posting-Host: bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University
Lines: 63
In article <C5IALu.Jn9@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
(robert and stimets) writes:
>Actually, I'm not sure that Philly won-- but they were ahead 2-7 in the bottom
>of the eighth. I was going to post the box score but since Cinci was playing
>so criminally bad, the pub I was at had to turn the game off.
>
>So here's what's up:
>
>Cincinnati had seven hits, all singles, by the end of the eighth.  This makes
>it six games with exactly ONE extra base hit.
>
>Cincinnati was 0-5 with runners in scoring position.
>---Now if a team is going to be completely without power, they absolutely
>HAVE to hit in clutch situations.
>
>Cincinnati starter Tom Browning pitched 4.1 innings, giving up 5 runs and 10 h
its
>while striking out 5.  He was surely the loser tonight.
>---Reds starters, while supposedly solid, have won only one game this year.
>(Of course, the Reds have only won two...)
>
>Clean-up batter Sabo went 0-4.  Besides yesterday's homer, he's SUCKED at the
plate.
>
>Dibble may not actually return Friday. This may not mean anything since Cinci
may
>not find themselves in a save situation for a while...
>
>Speaking of which, The Reds have ha exactly one lead this week... for one-and-
>a-half innings after Chris' dinger on Tuesday.
>
>Manager Tony Perez says the Reds are just not swinging the bat well right now.
>---Good call, Doggie.
Well, there's a big difference between "just not swinging the bat well" and
what the Reds are doing at the plate....UUUGGGHHHH!!!!!
A Reds fan on the verge of a nervous breakdown....
--Mike
"Why is it that the prognosis on Kevin Mitchell is 'Out 2-3 days' no matter
what day you read it???"
-Gary Burbank
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've told you before and I'll tell you again.  The strong
survive and the weak disappear.  We do not intend
to disappear.
---Jimmy Hoffa
mtissand@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Cynically yours,
>
>
>RStimets
From: bm562@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard L. Trionfo)
Subject: Re: WFAN
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 92
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu
I hope that this comes off as a somewhat unbiased assesment
of WFAN and WIP(I go to school in Philadelphia, and I listen to
both stations on a consistant basis.)  Now that the fan has Mike
Lupica on from 10 to noon, they have a person who can get the
big name guests for interviews, and not just of local importance
He did have Dave Cheketts and Fred Wilpon on his show, but he
had Bob Costas and Magic Johnson on too.
Now here are my opinions of the two stations competing talent:
Morning show:
In my opinion, I think Imus is much better than Bruno, Cataldi,
and Morganti, even though I would feel different if Morganti
had a better crew of people to work with.  To me, WIP tries
to copy Imus but make it all sports as a theme.  In terms of
sports, Imus lacks the blanketing of the airwaves, but he
interjects humor and politics into his show.
10 AM to 12 Noon:
I think Chuck Cooperstein and Lupica are equal in their
abilities to host a radio show, but I think Chuck has the
advantage over Lupica in terms of dealing with the caller
who is asking about who the local team is going to draft
in the sixth round.  Lupica and the other hosts on FAN get
better interview guests, but I heard the PD of WIP say that
they were not interested in interviews with celebrities unless
it was a major story.
I would consider this even because they are two different
styles of host.
12 Noon to 2 PM:
At this point, I would have to give a big advantage to
Jody McDonald over Len Berman because Lenny has only been
on for a couple of weeks.  I just think JM has the ability
to transcend the "homer" mentality of the Philadelphia fan
base.  This is most evident when the IGGLES(Philadelphia
spelling) play the Cowboys because JM is a huge Dallas fan.
Where else can you have people call up and predict a 93-0
score without the egging of the hosts(re:WIP morning 'guys')
I do agree that JM was great on the FAN weekend overnight
and I miss hearing him over the current crop of rotating
hosts.  I feel that JM is the best sportstalk host on
either station by a good margin.  If you are in NY and
you can't get WIP, JM does fill in on the weekends sometimes.
2PM to 4PM:
This is the time when JM goes up against Francesa and
Russo(fatso and froot loops) and I become the most divided
in my loyalties.  Mike and the dog are very entertaining,
but they often go an hour or so without calls or even 10
to 20 minutes without talking about sports.  MATD do
get great guests and that is the basis for their show, so
it is like the 10 to 12 debate.  Another plus is the
appearances by Mike and Chris on Imus in the Morning, which
are often hilarious.
4 PM to 7 PM:
MATD go up against Fredericks and Missanelli.  I like
Mike Missanelli but I just can't stomach Steve Fredericks.
I know that SF came from Philly originally, but when he
was at the FAN, he was a NY homer as much as he is a Philly
homer now.  I don't listen to WIP much after 4 PM unless there
is a game on that night, but you will see later for the
reason.  That is why I give the advantage to FAN.
7 PM to Midnight:
S&M are on WIP until 8 and then it is the man who makes
Eli that calls MATD all the time seem like a novice on
charges of racism, G Cobb.  This man is so grating on my
nerves that if I listen to him for a few minutes I go
nuts.(I know that is biased, but listen to his show)
On FAN, there is usually a game on, Knicks, Rangers, Mets
Jets, or St. John's basketball.  If the game is on the
west coast, then it is usually Howie Rose.  Of course
I think dead air would be better than G Cobb on WIP, but
WIP does air Sixers and Flyers games during the season.
(If this is the sports station, why did they lose the
IGGLES to WYSP(home of Howard Stern in Phil.))
During the summer, it
is all talk on WIP.
Overall, I would have to give the advantage to WFAN, with
the exception of 10 to 12, and 2 to 4 where it is even, and
12 to 2 where WIP has the advantage.
Rich
--
"You've read the hat, now see the movie."
-Imus in the morning
"A blurb? You're a blurb!"
-Seinfeld
From: bm562@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard L. Trionfo)
Subject: Question about Candlestick
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Lines: 12
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu
I have tickets for the TB Giants and I was wondering if
anybody familiar with the stadium could tell me where
Section 15 in the lower level is located.
Please e-mail the response,
Thanks,
Rich
--
"You've read the hat, now see the movie."
-Imus in the morning
"A blurb? You're a blurb!"
-Seinfeld
From: marc@yogi.austin.ibm.com (Marc J. Stephenson)
Subject: Re: ASTROS FOR REAL?
Organization: IBM, Austin
Lines: 29
In article <1993Apr15.234838.4138@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_millerwl@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>WHO THINKS THE ASTROS ARE GOING PLACES???
>THEY'RE CURRENTLY FIRST PLACE.
>THEY'RE 5-4, 5-1 ON THE ROAD!
I AGREE, LUMBERJACK (except that they're in 2nd)!  They ARE going PLACES -
San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Cincinnati, Denver, Atlanta, Miami,
Philadelphia, New York, Montreal, Pittsburgh, Chicago, St. Louis...and
points in between.  :-)
But,
THEY'RE 0-3 AT HOME!
I'm just not used to an overly enthusiastic Houston fan.  I really shouldn't
discourage it, so HANG IN THERE, LUMBERJACK!  (But, get ahold of that shift
key, will ya?)
ObBase:  Apparently the new owner (Drayton McLain (sp?)) doesn't particularly
like excuses.  An item in our paper (the Austin American-Statesman - "If you
read it here, it was somewhere else first") said that he wouldn't take
injuries as an excuse for losing because that possibility should have been
accounted for.  Uh, oh.  I don't want an owner that'll keep everybody on
edge - I'd never gotten that feeling about him, but who knows?  Does
anybody down there in the Houston area have a feel for how meddling of an
owner McLain is going to be?
--
Marc Stephenson	           IBM AWS (Advanced Workstations & Systems - Austin,TX)
DISCLAIMER: The content of this posting is independent of official IBM position.
INTERNET->marc@austin.ibm.com      VNET: MARC at AUSVMQ        IBM T/L: 678-3189
From: craigs@srgenprp.sr.hp.com (Craig Stelter)
Subject: Re: Defensive Averages 1988-1992, Third Base
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9.2]
Lines: 37
Dale Stephenson (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: In <C5JJrJ.EM3@cs.uiuc.edu> steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
: >Compiled from the last five Defensive Average reports, here are the career
: >DAs for the individual players in the reports.  Stats are courtesy of
: >Sherri Nichols.  Players are listed in descending order.
: And some comments, with some players deleted.
: >Third Basemen
: >-------------
: >Leius, Scott         ----  ----  ----  .653  .680   0.672
: Looks good.  Too bad he's moving to short.
: >Pagliarulo, Mike     .631  ----  .575  .744  ----   0.649
: This is an interesting line.  His 1988 figure was slightly below average.
: His 1990 was pathetic, and his 1991 was the next best year by anybody.  Part of
: that may be his mobility.  1988 was with the Yankees.  1990 was with the
: Padres, who appear to have a rotten infield.  1991 was with the Twins, and
: judging by Leius and Gaetti, the Metrodome may be a good place to play
: third.
Gaetti, Gary         .616  .638  .655  .632  ----   0.637
Apologies if I don't know what I'm talking about :-), but as a Twins fan,
I like to think they have good players in any park.  Not sure if I remember
completely or not, but I think Gaetti played with the Twins in '87 for the
world series, and again in '88 (note that's his lowest of the 4).  I believe
the next 3 (or at least the last two) were played with the Angels.   Lots
of factors make a player excell...  I hate it when so many use the dome.
It may not be ideal, but nice to comfortably enjoy baseball and football
even when it's snowing and raining.
-Craig
I'm sure the company for which I work does not have all the same opinions
that I do...
From: kingoz@camelot.bradley.edu (Orin Roth)
Subject: Re: PHILS, NL EAST NOT SO WEAK
Nntp-Posting-Host: camelot.bradley.edu
Organization: Bradley University
Lines: 34
In <1993Apr15.214133.3371@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu> apanjabi@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu writes:
>I Love it how all of these people are "blaming" the Phillies success
>on a weak division.  Why don't we look at the record of the teams in
>each division (READ: Inter-Divisional Play), we'll see that the East
>is really kicking the shit out of the West.  I know it is early, but
>that is all we have to go on.  Atlanta is just so strong with their
>.188 BA, Cincinnati is 2-7 coming off a sweep at Veteran's Stadium in
>Philadelphia, and Houston was swept in it's first three games by the
>Phillies in the Astrodome.  That, my Western Division friends, shows
>that the three best teams in your division may not be as strong as you
>think!!
Or you may be posting this WAY TOO EARLY and be eating your words by
mid-season. C'mon, the Phillies haven't proved anything yet. Atlanta
was similar to the Phils 2 years ago. They sucked. They started having
a good year, but didn't get any respect until they actually won the
division. (which is how it should be) So until the Phils AT LEAST
have a good year, not just a good 2 weeks, they won't get any respect
either. BTW, Atlanta's .188 BA is actually a compliment to how good
the Braves really are. Their record is 6-3. Can you imagine the Phils
record if they were batting .188? hahahaha. And Atlanta's hitting will
improve dramatically.
No, I'm not a Braves fan. Just defending a good team.
Orin.
Bradley U.
>PHILS ALL THE WAY IN '93
>BRAVES HIT LIKE A AAA CLUB
>REDS NEED MARGE
>						-BOB
--
I'm really a jester in disguise!
From: joec@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com ( Joe Cipale)
Subject: Re: RED SOX LEAD 8-0 AFTER 2!!!!!!
Organization: Cypress Semi, Beaverton OR
Lines: 46
In article <C56zrA.75n@ulowell.ulowell.edu> stwombly@cs.ulowell.edu (Steve Twombly) writes:
>The Boston Red Sox lead the KC Royals 8-0 after 2 innings.
>
>The Sox are the only undefeated team in the AL East after 4 days.
>
>GO JUMP IN THE LAKE YOU NON-BELIEVERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>Steve
>
As I have read this net the last few days, I am continually amazed at the
pronouncements of baseball prowess by many individuals.  Especially when it
comes down to saying that the Bosox haven't a prayer.  As a long time Red Sox
fan, I will simply say:  The Impossible Dream Year - 1967 for those of you
with short memories. short lives, or both.
To be a Red Sox fan is to continually be the subject of abuse and criticism
from those who only follow 'the hot team'.  This statement is supported based
on the increased number of 'Brave Woofers' out on the net.  A true fan of a
team, any team, will follow that team through the good years as well as the lean
years, and be amply rewarded when the time is right.
Yeah, so what if Buckner let a roller go through his legs in `86.  Who cares if
Clemens told Cooley to go piss up a rope and promptly earned a quick shower.  The
fact is, they were one of the best teams in the league those years and the fans
supported them.  Now that it appears that they are on lean times, the number of
detracters come from all over.  So what!  Let them play and we will see what
happens come September.  The Red Sox may not be that good, but they are certainly
not that bad, either and they do have a chance to win the World Series, after all,
remember the `69 Mets?  Who would have given them a chance to even make it that
far, let alone beat Baltimore.
Let's face it, Baseball is a wonderful game and is far more unpredictable than Football
and Basketball.  Because of this, one can never say with absolute certainity what
the outcome will be over the course of 162 games.
===============================================================================
| joec@godot.cyprs.rain.com     |WARNING: Elvis impersonating can be hazardous|
| joec@ursula.ee.pdx.edu        |         to your health -- it sure won't help|
|                               |         your reputation.                    |
+-------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| I bike, therefore I am!       | Go Red Sox!            Go Celtics!          |
|                               | Go Seahawks!           Go Sonics!           |
===============================================================================
From: hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks)
Subject: RBI, RISP, and SLG
Organization: Bill's Safety Cab and Record Bar, Chickasha, OK
Lines: 49
Off and on over the last several months, threads about RBIs and
related topics have gotten me to thinking about how well we can
predict a player's RBIs using information about his overall
performance and the number of runners in scoring position (RISP)
that he bats with.  In the Brock2 model, Bill James calculated
predicted RBIs as RBI=.235*(Total Bases) + Home Runs.  This
completely ignores the context, which was all that Brock2
could do, since context was unknown to it.  So I thought I'd
take that idea as a starting point and look how good a fit to
the data you get by comparing (RBI-Home Runs) to SLG*RISP.
I've started with team data, using data from the Elias's that
I've picked up over the years when a) I could afford them and
b) I could stomach the thought of increasing Elias's profits.
That gave me the years 1984-1986, 1988, and 1990.  (I don't
have team RBIs for '87 or I could add that year.)  If you
run a simple least squares fit to the data you get
(RBI-Home Runs) = 0.81*SLG*RISP.
The correlation between the LHS and the RHS is 0.86, which is
significant at a ridiculously high level.  So, I feel like the
fit is good at the team level.  I've no started to move on to
the player level and have looked at 4 players (Will Clark,
Ozzie Smith, Joe Carter, and Don Mattingly).  I hope to
add quite a few more during my copious free time this year.
It doesn't do too badly, except the equation underpredicts the
low HR hitter (Smith), which may be a fault of the model or it
could just be Ozzie.  The results:
RBI-HR
Years        Actual   Predicted
Carter  (84-88,90)     400       402.6
Clark   (87,88,90,92)  269       269.6
Matt'ly (84-88,90)     471       460.8
Smith   (84-88,90)     317       280.6
I think we can make a case (and I hope to make it stronger) that
RBIs can be predicted simply from knowing how a player slugs overall
and how many men are in scoring position when he comes up.
More later,
Harold
--
Harold Brooks                    hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
National Severe Storms Laboratory (Norman, OK)
"I used to work for a brewery, too, but I didn't drink on the job."
-P. Bavasi on Dal Maxvill's view that Florida can win the NL East in '93
From: philly@ravel.udel.edu (Robert C Hite)
Subject: Re: DAVE KINGMAN FOR THE HALL OF FAME
Keywords: Hall of Fame, Winfield, Kingman, Murray, Joe Lundy, :-)
Nntp-Posting-Host: ravel.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: na
Lines: 15
In article <mssC5K4w5.GqE@netcom.com> mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) writes:
>
>I'm no Kingman fan.  Just thought I'd point out that he's the
>only player in history to have five three-HR games.  Joe Carter
>has four.  Eddie Murray three.  McCovey and Gehrig also three.
>Ruth, Mays, Foxx and Dawson two each.
>
Didn't Mike Schmidt also do this at least three times?  I can
remember twice in Wrigley Field alone...he did it the same day
Kong did it in a 23-22 shootout, and he swatted four there one
day in April '76 (the month he set the April record with 11 HR's.
Anybody remember any of this?  (I was just a kid)
From: awe@loch.mit.edu (Ari Epstein)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: CMPO at MIT
Lines: 4
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: loch.mit.edu
I think you can add former A's first baseman Mike Epstein (no relation) to
the list.
Ari
From: jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez)
Subject: MLB Standings and Scores for Fri., Apr. 16th, 1993
Organization: JTC Enterprises Sports Division (Major League Baseball Dept.)
Lines: 72
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu
Keywords: mlb, 04.16
MLB Standings and Scores for Friday, April 16th, 1993
(including yesterday's games)
NATIONAL WEST	      Won  Lost   Pct.    GB   Last 10  Streak    Home   Road
San Francisco Giants   06   04    .600    --     6-4     Won 1   03-01  03-03
Houston Astros         05   04    .556   0.5     5-4    Lost 1   00-03  05-01
Atlanta Braves         06   05    .545   0.5     5-5    Lost 2   03-03  03-02
Colorado Rockies       03   05    .375   2.0     3-5     Won 1   03-03  00-02
Los Angeles Dodgers    03   07    .300   3.0     3-7    Lost 4   00-03  03-04
San Diego Padres       02   07    .222   3.5     2-7    Lost 4   00-04  02-03
Cincinnati Reds        02   07    .222   3.5     2-7    Lost 3   01-02  01-05
NATIONAL EAST
Philadelphia Phillies  08   01    .889    --     8-1     Won 5   05-01  03-00
Pittsburgh Pirates     07   02    .778   1.0     7-2     Won 4   03-02  04-00
St. Louis Cardinals    07   02    .778   1.0     7-2     Won 3   04-02  03-00
New York Mets          04   04    .500   3.5     4-4    Lost 1   02-03  02-01
Chicago Cubs           04   05    .444   4.0     4-5     Won 1   01-02  03-03
Montreal Expos         04   05    .444   4.0     4-5     Won 1   01-02  03-03
Florida Marlins        03   06    .333   5.0     3-6     Won 1   02-04  01-02
AMERICAN WEST         Won  Lost   Pct.    GB   Last 10  Streak    Home   Road
Texas Rangers          06   02    .750    --     6-2    Lost 1   04-02  02-00
California Angels      05   02    .714   0.5     5-2     Won 3   03-02  02-00
Chicago White Sox      04   04    .500   2.0     4-4     Won 1   02-03  02-01
Minnesota Twins        04   04    .500   2.0     4-4    Lost 1   01-02  03-02
Oakland Athletics      04   04    .500   2.0     4-4    Lost 2   04-02  00-02
Seattle Mariners       04   04    .500   2.0     4-4    Lost 1   03-02  01-02
Kansas City Royals     02   07    .222   4.5     2-7     Won 1   01-05  01-02
AMERICAN EAST
Boston Red Sox         07   02    .778    --     7-2     Won 3   03-00  04-02
Toronto Blue Jays      05   03    .625   1.5     5-3     Won 1   04-02  01-01
New York Yankees       05   04    .556   2.0     5-4    Lost 1   02-01  03-03
Detroit Tigers         04   04    .500   2.5     4-4     Won 2   02-00  02-04
Cleveland Indians      03   06    .333   4.0     3-6    Lost 3   02-01  01-05
Milwaukee Brewers      02   05    .286   4.0     2-5    Lost 4   00-02  02-03
Baltimore Orioles      02   06    .222   4.5     2-6     Won 1   00-02  02-04
YESTERDAY'S SCORES
(IDLE teams listed in alphabetical order)
NATIONAL LEAGUE				AMERICAN LEAGUE
Houston Astros		1		Seattle Mariners	1
Montreal Expos		2		Toronto Blue Jays	3
New York Mets		3		Oakland Athletics	2
Colorado Rockies	5		Detroit Tigers		3
Pittsburgh Pirates	5		Kansas City Royals	5
San Diego Padres	4 (13)		New York Yankees	4
St. Louis Cardinals	4		Cleveland Indians	3
Los Angeles Dodgers	2		Boston Red Sox		4 (13)
Atlanta Braves		1		California Angels     PPD
San Francisco Giants	6		Milwaukee Brewers    RAIN
Chicago Cubs	     IDLE		Baltimore Orioles    IDLE
Cincinnati Reds      IDLE		Chicago White Sox    IDLE
Florida Marlins      IDLE		Minnesota Twins      IDLE
Philadelphia PhilliesIDLE		Texas Rangers        IDLE
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Hernandez          |    RAMS  | |    /.\  ******* _|_|_  / |   LAKERS
jtchern@ocf.Berkeley.EDU  |   KINGS  | |__ |   | DODGERS _|_|_  | |   RAIDERS
jtcent@soda.Berkeley.EDU  |  ANGELS  |____||_|_| *******  | |  |___|  CLIPPERS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gwieman@unl.edu (Gary Wieman)
Subject: Cards sweep LA, Mets lose, Life is GOOD!
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln
Lines: 28
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu
Keywords: Cardinals
Just a few lines about my favorite team sweeping the Dodgers (one of
my least favorite) in LA (Sweet!).  Also the Mets (my other least
favorite team) loss to the Rockies made this this a great day and a
great start to the weekend as the Cardinals are on the ESPN tonight.
Big Lee Smith is having a great start and the Cardinals seem to be
hitting in the clutch even though they have had a few games with lots
of hits and not many runs.  Hopefully with the coaches stress on
situational hitting in spring training, the runners LOB will be lower
this year (probably due to the high strikeout numbers by Jose and
Lankford and Zeile's off year).
I don't know why all the fuss about the Fillies.  The media and all the
Filly fans on r.s.b forget who is right behind them in the standings.
Give the Wild Thing a week or two before he starts blowing some games
and we'll see who is in first then.  I believe the Cardinal pitching
staff is more complete than the Filly staff and that will make the
difference.
On a side note, a few years ago (5-6), a comment was made by some
baseball player or manager about the Dodger defense.  He was asked
where to hit the ball against the Dodgers and he replied "Fair."  I
remember it being in the "They Said It" section of Sports Illustrated.
I would like to know who said it and what issue it was in.
GO REDBIRDS!!
Gary Wieman
From: ching@fledgling.WPI.EDU (Jay Heminger)
Subject: Re: TIGER STADIUM GIF?
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Lines: 9
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: fledgling.wpi.edu
Originator: ching@fledgling.WPI.EDU
I hate to be rude, but screw the seating chart, post the stadium instead.
--
------------------------THE LOGISTICIAN REIGNS SUPREME!!!----------------------
|									      |
|   GO BLUE!!!   GO TIGERS!!!   GO PISTONS!!!   GO LIONS!!!   GO RED WINGS!!! |
-------------------------------ching@wpi.wpi.edu-------------------------------
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Distribution: na
Lines: 38
In article <1993Apr13.221704.4291@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <rudyC5FxC8.DEu@netcom.com> rudy@netcom.com (Rudy Wade) writes:
>>In article <1993Apr13.195301.22652@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>>Guess which line is which:
>>>	BA	OBP	SLG	AB	H	2B	3B	HR	BB
>>>X	.310	.405	.427	571	177	27	8	8	87
>>>Y	.312	.354	.455	657	205	32	1	20	35
>>
>>>The walks should give it away.  OBP's, in general, somewhat more valuable than
>>>slugging, and Alomar's edge in OBP was quite a bit larger than Baerga's edge
>>>in slugging.
>>
>>I'm no SDCN, but what's more valuable:
>>
>>28 hits w/5 more doubles, 12 more HRs   OR
>>7 more triples and 52 BBs?  (Let's not forget the 39 extra SBs. How many CS?)
>
>Alomar had 9 CS.  Baerga had 2.
>
>Don't forget the 59 more outs Baerga had (his GIDP balances out his CS, and
>he had one more sacrifice than Alomar).   A replacement level second baseman
>could have had 17 hits, 5 walks, and a couple of XBH for the additional
>outs Baerga had.  A triple is little different than a home run.  We're talking
>exchanging almost 60 walks for six or seven home runs and four doubles.  I
>would say the almost-60 walks are more valuable.
Also, Alomar got a FAR greater boost from his home park than Baerga did from
his. And "six or seven home runs"? Hmm.
So, if you wanted to pick a second baseman to play in Toronto, you'd take
Alomar. Anywhere else, and you'd probably take Baerga.
Mike
--
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w  :q  :wq  :wq! ^d  ^X ^?
exit X Q  ^C ^? :quitbye  CtrlAltDel   ~~q  :~q  logout  save/quit :!QUIT
^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^vi  man vi ^@  ^L  ^[c  ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help  helpquit ^D  ^d !!
man help ^C ^c :e! help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does Stop L1A d..."
From: thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: MLB Standings and Scores for Fri., Apr. 16th, 1993
Keywords: mlb, 04.16
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Lines: 23
In article <1qmj6h$m5h@agate.berkeley.edu> jtchern@ocf.berkeley.edu (Joseph Hernandez) writes:
>Houston Astros		1		Seattle Mariners	1
>Montreal Expos		2		Toronto Blue Jays	3
>New York Mets		3		Oakland Athletics	2
>Colorado Rockies	5		Detroit Tigers		3
>Pittsburgh Pirates	5		Kansas City Royals	5
>San Diego Padres	4 (13)		New York Yankees	4
>St. Louis Cardinals	4		Cleveland Indians	3
>Los Angeles Dodgers	2		Boston Red Sox		4 (13)
>Atlanta Braves		1		California Angels     PPD
>San Francisco Giants	6		Milwaukee Brewers    RAIN
This leads me to believe that it's not really a rabbitball year, and that
we've just had a rash of high-scoring games.  I bet this one day's worth
of games pulled everything back to close to average.
Interesting, because the other day, all but three games had ten or more
runs scored, and yesterday no game had more than nine.
--
ted frank                 |
thf2@kimbark.uchicago.edu |         I'm sorry, the card says "Moops."
the u of c law school     |
standard disclaimers      |
From: mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer)
Subject: Re: Young Catchers
Keywords: Solid != good
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Lines: 64
In article <1qlnknINN2sh@aludra.usc.edu> sheehan@aludra.usc.edu (Joseph Sheehan) writes:
Most of the points you made about Lopez v. Berryhill/Olson have been
made by others, and realizing that Lopez must be the second coming of
Frank Thomas, I have relented and praised the unmistakeable wisdom of
his supporters.
>
>Nope. They're baseball management, possible the most short-sighted
>collection of people in the nation. Do you not believe this goes on,
>Mark? Do you think Frank Thomas needed those three months in AAA in
>1990?
See?  This is essentially what everyone was doing  -  comparing Lopez
to one of the best players in the game.  I'm really looking forward
to seeing this can't-miss superstar now.  As for Thomas, I remember
being an advocate of his being brought up in 1990 even though he was
only 21 or 22 (can't remember).  But who did the Sox have at first?
Calderon?  Martinez?  Kittle?  The spot was there.  The talent was
there.  Sure, I say go for it.
I am not convinced that Lopez is anywhere near as talented as Thomas
was after his AA season in 1989, and I am not convinced that Olson/
Berryhill are nearly as bad as Kittle/Martinez were.
BTW, I don't think Thomas was hurt by those three months.
>Or Cal Eldred wasn't *really* better than Ricky Bones last year?
Well, if we can't compare our guy to one of the best in the game,
let's compare our decision to one of the most "Boneshead", right?
Cal Eldred was 24 when he came up, with a full season at AAA and a
longer minor league career.  Frankly, I don't know why he didn't
make the club in 1992.  Bones is a year younger with a lousy prior
history, and just watching him makes me think that I missed a
career as a big-league pitcher.  No one -  I repeat NO ONE  -
laughed louder than I did at the Sheffield trade.  (Though I guess
Mieske has a future.)
(I take it back. McIlvaine may have laughed louder.)
>
>You're mostly polite; make defensible, if flawed cases; have wit and
>have, in the past, admitted being wrong. That does qualify you on r.s.b.
>We'll make an SDCN out of you, yet :-)
aw, gee, shucks.  thanks guy.  except I missed the part where SDCN's
admit they're wrong.
--	The Beastmaster
--
Mark Singer
mss@netcom.com
From: jbrown@stein.u.washington.edu (Jeffery Brown)
Subject: Re: Early BBDDD Returns?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Lines: 17
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu
In article <1993Apr16.073051.9160@news.cs.brandeis.edu> st902415@pip.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>Just curious if anyone has started to standout early in the season in the
>BB DDD this year....
The tater that Jack Morris served to Griffey the Younger in his first
at-bat this year went 394 feet, if I remember right (I'll have to check
my scorecard at home).  I think that's the longest so far in the Kingdome
through the first stand (five games) there.  A weak showing, despite some
promising taterball candidates ... Ben McDonald, Rich DeLucia, and the
rest of the Mariner bullpen ... making appearances.
Anyone have the tape-measure value for Omar Vizquel's grand slam in the
Skydome?
---
Jeff Brown         Big Enchilada of the Brown Bag Lunches
Astronomy Dept.    jbrown@u.washington.edu
U. of Washington   jbrown@phast.phys.washington.edu
From: ching@fledgling.WPI.EDU (Jay Heminger)
Subject: Re: TIGERS
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Lines: 17
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: fledgling.wpi.edu
Originator: ching@fledgling.WPI.EDU
ALL I CAN SAY IS
G O    T I G E R S!!!!!!
--
------------------------THE LOGISTICIAN REIGNS SUPREME!!!----------------------
|									      |
|   GO BLUE!!!   GO TIGERS!!!   GO PISTONS!!!   GO LIONS!!!   GO RED WINGS!!! |
-------------------------------ching@wpi.wpi.edu-------------------------------
From: as000060@orion.yorku.ca
Subject: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series
Lines: 23
Organization: York University
Distribution: na
In article <C5F6rJ.7BJ@NCoast.ORG>, actuary@NCoast.ORG (Steven M. Goldman) writes:
>>
>>So who will start this year's All Star game for the AL?
>
> Probably Alomar.
>
> Not to put him down; he's a great player. But it helps to have
> all the recognition he's had, plus to play in a city which is
> likely to pour in the votes...
I like Alomar.  But I'd like to differ with your opinion about "a city
which is likely to pour in the votes...".
I attended many games last year during the balloting.  I know that a
great number of the attendees DID NOT fill out their ballots, but left
them, beer soaked and torn on the floor of the stands.  Toronto gets
no more and no less votes than any other city for the All Star game.
Unfortunately, this is not a one time thing.  I've attended games
during the last four seasons, and it has happened every time.  The
apathetic attitude to All Star ballots really offends me.
Ljs
From: js1@Isis.MsState.Edu (Jiann-ming Su)
Subject: Bonilla
Nntp-Posting-Host: isis.msstate.edu
Organization: Mississippi State University
Distribution: usa
Lines: 2
Bobby Bonilla supposedly use the word 'faggot' when he got mad at that author
in the clubhouse.  Should he be banned from baseball for a year like Schott?
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M. Tate)
Subject: Re: Torre: The worst manager?
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering
Lines: 19
DAK988S@vma.smsu.edu said:
>No....Hal McRae is the worst manager in baseball.  I've never seen a guy who
>can waste talent like he can.  One of the best raw-talent staffs in the league,
>and he's still finding a way to lose.  I'll be surprised if he makes it through
>the next 2 weeks, unless drastic improvement is made.
I'm confused.  How is it Hal McRae's fault that he can't win with a team
whose best offensive player is Phil Hiatt?  I mean, let's be real.  Kansas
City will have to get outstanding years from their entire staff just to end
up near .500; they have less offense than any other team in baseball, even
if you count the expansion teams.
--
David M. Tate   (dtate+@pitt.edu) |  Greetings, sir, with bat not quick
member IIE, ORSA, TIMS, SABR    |  Hands not soft, eye not discerning
|  And in Denver they call you a slugger?
"The Big Catullus" Galarraga      |  And compare you to my own Mattingly!?
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Subject: Re: Braves Pitching UpdateDIR
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 34
In article <8994@blue.cis.pitt.edu> traven@pitt.edu (Neal Traven) writes:
>
>One of the chapters in Palmer and Thorn's 'Hidden Game' is titled
>'Pitching is 44% of Baseball,' implying that fielding is 6%.  How do
>they determine that?  Beats me -- it's been a long, long time since I
>read it.
This was (my opinion) the stupidest thing in the Hidden Game. The
argument was
1) Defense, or runs allowed, is 50% of the game.
2) Unearned runs amount to 12% of the runs allowed; earned runs, 88%.
3) Since unearned runs are the result of fielding, not pitching, and
earned runs are the product of pitching, not fielding, fielding is 12%
of defense and pitching is 88% of defense.
4) Caombining with #1, pitching is 44% of the game, fielding 6%.
Pete is usually sharper than that. My own feel is that fielding is in
the 25-33% of defense range; call it 30-70 between fielding and
pitching.
>One also has to separate offense into batting and baserunning, with the
>split probably somewhere around 49.5% and 0.5%.
I'd give baserunning a little more credit than that, maybe 45-5, or
even 40-10. Give a team of Roberto Alomar and a team of John Oleruds
identical batting stats (which wouldn't be that unreasonable), and
even if you don't let Roberto steal a single base, they'll score a lot
more than the Oleruds by going first-to-third more often. (No offense,
Gordon).
Clay D.
From: boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell)
Subject: Re: Best Homeruns
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Lines: 5
I'd have to say the most impressive HRs I've ever see came from Dave Kingman
and his infamous moon-raker drives...
Don Boell
From: schaefer@owlnet.rice.edu (Andrew James Schaefer)
Subject: Re: Best Sportwriters...
Keywords: Sportswriters
Organization: Rice University
Lines: 31
In article <C5K7nK.7tv@news.cso.uiuc.edu> rkoffler@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Bighelmet) writes:
>csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby) writes:
>
>
>>Since someone brought up sports radio, howabout sportswriting???
>
>I happen to be a big fan of Jayson Stark.  He is a baseball writer for the
>Philadelphia Inquirer.  Every tuesday he writes a "Week in Review" column.
>He writes about unusual situations that occured during the week.  Unusual
>stats.  He has a section called "Kinerisms of the Week" which are stupid
>lines by Mets brodcaster Ralph Kiner.  Every year he has the LGTGAH contest.
>That stands for "Last guy to get a hit."  He also writes for Baseball
>America.  That column is sort of a highlights of "Week in Review."  If you
>can, check his column out sometime.  He might make you laugh.
>
>Rob Koffler
Isn't Stark that idiot who writes in Baseball America?   Twice a month he
writes a "Who woulda thunk it" article which is really the same piece
every time.   "Who would have thought that [Buddy Biancalana] would have
more home runs than [the Colorado Rockies, Babe Ruth, Omar Vizquel and
Nolan Ryan] COMBINED!"   He's an idiot, if it's the same guy.
>
>--
>******************************************************************
>|You live day to day and                rkoffler@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu|
>|dream about tomorrow --Don Henley                               |
>******************************************************************
Andrew
From: barrym@informix.com (Barry Mednick)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Summary: a few names
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Lines: 9
In article <15APR93.14691229.0062@lafibm.lafayette.edu> VB30@lafibm.lafayette.edu (VB30) writes:
>Just wondering.  A friend and I were talking the other day, and
>we were (for some reason) trying to come up with names of Jewish
>maybe John Lowenstein.
Lowenstein is NOT Jewish.  However, there is a long list including
Hank Greenberg, Moe Berg, Rod Carew (a convert), the Sherry brothers,
Art Shamsky, and Ron Blomberg.
Barry
From: edd@gvlf4-a.gvl.unisys.com (Ed Dougherty)
Subject: Re: Phills vs  Pirates
Summary: Good Baseball
Keywords: mlb, 04.16
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa
Lines: 9
Nntp-Posting-Host: gvlf4-a
As a Philly fan as as a Penna. baseball fan, I'm anxious to see the
Penna. series.  Anyone know when it starts and where the first games
will be played?
This is (I think) always good baseball (to me); and the Pirates are
also off to a good start.
Ed Doc
From: jclouse@discover.wright.edu (Jim Clouse)
Subject: World Series Stats
Nntp-Posting-Host: discgate
Organization: Wright State University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Lines: 3
Does anybody else think that WS stats should become part of
a player's career stats?   Why not?
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
From: fry@zariski.harvard.edu (David Fry)
Organization: Harvard Math Department
Nntp-Posting-Host: zariski.harvard.edu
Lines: 10
Once, on Jeopardy, the category was "Jewish Sports Heros," believe it
or not.  The answer was, "This pitcher had four no-hitters with the
Dodgers in the 60s."  The contestant said, "Who is Hank Aaron?" Alex
Trebek said something like, "I don't think Hank Aaron was a pitcher."
David Fry                                  fry@math.harvard.edu
Division of Applied Sciences               fry@huma1.bitnet
Harvard University                      ...!harvard!huma1!fry
Cambridge, MA  02138
From: klopfens@andy.bgsu.edu (Bruce Klopfenstein)
Subject: Ind. Source Picks Baerga Over Alomar: Case Closed
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Distribution: na
Lines: 13
fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>
> I'd say you could make a good for them being about equal right now. T&P
> rated Baerga higher, actually.
>
> Mike
> --
Finally, an objective source.  Alomar's a great player, but so is Baerga.
Nice to see the objective source cited rather than "my dad's bigger than
your dad" posts.
BK
From: jrogoff@scott.skidmore.edu (jay rogoff)
Subject: Re: best homeruns
Distribution: rec
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY
Lines: 5
On two separate occasions I saw Dick Allen (back when he was Richie)
homer at Shea off the middle of the black centerfield hitter's
background screen.  I think both shots would have traveled 500 feet.
Jay
From: gspira@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Spira)
Subject: Re: Why Spanky?
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Lines: 27
boone@psc.edu (Jon Boone) writes:
>On Mon, 12 Apr 93 00:53:14 GMT in <<1993Apr12.005314.5700@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>> Greg Spira (gspira@nyx.cs.du.edu) wrote:
>:>Does anybody in the Pittsburgh area know why Mike LaValliere was released?
>:>Last year I kept saying that Slaught should get the bulk of the playing time,
>:>that he was clearly the better player at this point, but Leyland insisted on
>:>keeping a pretty strict platoon.  And now he is released?  That doesn't
>:>make any sense to me.
>Greg,
>    The story goes like this:
>       Spanky is too slow!  If he were quicker, he would still be here.
>But with Slaught and Tom Prince, they didn't want to lose Prince in order
>to bring up that 11th pitcher.  Slaught is about as good as Spanky and
>Prince is coming along nicely!
Well, my question still hasn't been answered: if Spanky was bad enough to
release this year, why did he get so much playing time last year?  Yes, I know
he was part of a platoon, and that's why he got more playing time than
Slaught, but that doesn't answer the question.  If Slaught was so obviously
better this year, wasn't this also obvious last year, and shouldn't he
have been taking away some of Spanky's playing time against righties?
Greg
From: nittmo@camelot.bradley.edu (Christopher Taylor)
Subject: When Is Melido Due Back?
Nntp-Posting-Host: camelot.bradley.edu
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: na
Lines: 6
When are the Yankees planning on activating Melido Perez?  His 15 days on
the DL are up today, but are they bringing him back this weekend?
Thanks for any info.
From: dswartz@osf.org (Dan Swartzendruber)
Subject: Re: Best Homeruns
Organization: Open Software Foundation - Research Institute
Lines: 16
In article <4200419@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell) writes:
>I'd have to say the most impressive HRs I've ever see came from Dave Kingman
>and his infamous moon-raker drives...
I remember one he hit circa 1976 at Wrigley Field that went across
the street (in dead center field) and hit a house on the roof.  He
whiffed a lot, but when he *did* connect, watch out!
--
#include <std_disclaimer.h>
Dan S.
From: sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 18
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
In article <mssC5K47z.Fur@netcom.com> mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) writes:
>
>
>Polish and Jewish are *not* mutually exclusive.
I didn't mean to offend or anything, I'm just quoting Stanky himself on
the subject. I remember one time last year he was being interviewed by
ESPN, and the interviewer (can't remember who), asked Stanky if he was
Jewish because he (the interviewer) was Jewish and wanted to see more
Jewish ballplayers. To which Stanky replied, "I'm Polish, not Jewish."
So maybe that wasn't the most PC thing for Stanky to say, and maybe I was
a little naive when I posted it. I think we should just devote this
subject to finding actual Jewish ballplayers (I myself am Jewish and the
only ones I ever knew until now were Koufax, Greenberg, and Blomberg).
-Alan
From: shippert@cco.caltech.edu (Tim Shippert)
Subject: Re: Infield Fly Rule
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Lines: 25
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu
jrogoff@scott.skidmore.edu (jay rogoff) writes:
>One last infield fly question that has always puzzled me and hasn't
>yet been addressed.  I believe the rule also does *not* deal with this
>situation:
>However, if the Infield Fly is *not* caught, at what point can a runner
>legally leave his base w/o fear of being doubled off for advancing too
>early?
The runner can leave his base at any time.  If the ball is caught,
he's got to tag up.  If it isn't caught, he _doesn't_ have to tag up at
all.  So, if he's feeling lucky, your runner at second can sprint for glory
as soon as the ball is popped up.  If it isn't caught, he's probably scored
a run.  If it is, he's probably headed for AAA.
The only effect the infield fly has is to make the batter out,
thereby removing the force on the runners on base.  All other rules apply,
as if you were standing second with first open and the ball is popped up.
--
Tim Shippert                                 shippert@cco.caltech.edu
"If we are going to stick to this damned quantum-jumping, then I regret
that I ever had anything to do with quantum theory."
-E. Schrodinger
From: ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary Built Like Villanueva Huckabay)
Subject: Alomar vs. Baerga - I was hoping to stay out of this.
Organization: Julio Lundy Candlelight Vigil Society
Distribution: na
Lines: 37
(Lyford "Frosty" Beverage) writes:
|> Uh, yes.  Baerga has a lot of flash, but Alomar was the better hitter
|> last year.
|>
|> BATTERS      BA   SLG   OBP   G  AB   R   H  TB 2B 3B HR RBI  BB  SO SB CS  E
|> BAERGA,C   .312  .455  .354 161 657  92 205 299 32  1 20 105  35  76 10  2 19
|> ALOMAR,R   .310  .427  .405 152 571 105 177 244 27  8  8  76  87  52 49  9  5
|>
>This is fascinating.  You say that Alomar was the better hitter last
>year, and immediately follow that up with numbers showing that Baerga
>had a better year.  The only category that I see which shows an advantage
>for Alomar is OBP.
Well, OBP is the most important offensive statistic, and by a big margin.
50 points of OBP is worth considerably more than 50 points of slugging.
That being said, I still think Baerga was VERY SLIGHTLY better last year,
but I think this is as close to a wash as you're likely to find.
I personally don't care much for Alomar's defense.  I don't think he's
nearly as good as people make him out to be, and he can't turn the DP
to save his life.  He comes across the bag improperly, and his release
is slow.  Considering the high leverage of the DP, this is a shortcoming
I can't overlook.  In the long term, I'd move Alomar to another position.
If the Jays could trade a hot Devon White for something, I'll be Alomar
could be a hell of a CF.  In the long run, I think I'd rather have Jeff
Kent at 2B and Alomar in CF than Alomar/White.
--
*   Gary Huckabay   * "You think that's loud enough, a$$hole?"           *
*   "Movie Rights   * "Well, if you're having trouble hearing it, sir,   *
*   available thru  *  I'd be happy to turn it up for you.  I didn't     *
*     Ted Frank."   *  know that many people your age liked King's X."   *
From: sac@asdi.saic.com (Steve A. Conroy x6172)
Subject: Re: Darrrrrrrrryl
Organization: SAIC
Lines: 33
In article <mssC5KCru.5Ip@netcom.com>, mss@netcom.com (Mark Singer) writes:
|>
|>
|> The media is beating the incident at Dodger Stadium on Wednesday to
|> death, but I haven't seen anything in rsb yet.
|>
|> Gerald Perry of the Cardinals pinch hit in the eighth inning with two
|> on and his club down by a run.  He stroked a line drive into the
|> right field corner.  The ball cleared the three-foot high fence and
|> went into the crowd.  Darryl, racing over from right center, got to
|> the spot in time to reach his glove up over the short fence, but he
|> missed the ball.  A fan sitting in the front row, wearing a mitt,
|> reached up and caught the ball.  Home run.
|>
|> Now I've seen the replay several times and I have concluded that
|> Darryl missed the ball, and that the fan's glove was essentially
|> behind Darryl's.  Several Dodger fans with seats in the immediate
|> vicinity have claimed that the fan unquestionably interfered with
|> Strawberry.  What cannot be disputed, however, is that the fan
|> who caught the ball never took his eye off it;  he was oblivious
|> to where the fielder was playing.  He was also quite exuberant as
|> soon as he realized he had made the catch.
|>
|> [Stuff about Daryl and Tommy and everyone blaming fan for the loss deleted]
I saw the replay several times too.  No question about it.  Daryl missed
the ball, *then* the fan caught it.  Daryl is so tall that he had the
first shot at the ball.  Daryl's just whining again.  I think it shows a
lack of class when Tommy, Daryl and the Dodgers blame a single fan for
losing the game.  What about the pitcher who threw up the gopher ball?
What about the pitchers that gave up 6 runs up to that point?  Sorry, Tommy.
If it were a 2-1 game and Daryl was 5 feet 2 inches tall, then maybe -
just maybe - you'd have an argument.
From: loos@cup.hp.com (Joe Loos)
Subject: Bonds vs. Maddux
Nntp-Posting-Host: hpisq3lk.cup.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Lines: 27
I've been following the Giants closely over the off-season -- newspapers,
notesgroup, etc -- but I had my first up close and personal last night at
the Stick.
After watching Giants hitters struggle last year, Barry's swing was
very impressive -- he's very quick and his swing seems effortless, even
compared to Clark (particularly Clark as of late).
It was interesting to see Bonds hit Maddux so well.  I'm not sure if
Barry was after revenge against the Braves or what but he stroked
three very pretty hits (1b, 2b, hr) for 5 rbi's.
The Giants as a team are doing a lot of surprising things this year in
addition to Bonds.  There has been some good pitching and some hitters
seem to be swinging much better.  Clayton's defense has been superb.
McGee seems to like leading off this year.  Manwaring is driving the ball.
So on & so forth.
I hope it continues...I think they need to continue well into June before
people are really sold that they are for real--particularly the pitching.
For myself, I think the fresh start of Magowan/Baker/etc has really wiped
out a lot of negatives from the last few years and will be a real factor
in helping them significantly improve over last year.
Joe Loos
loos@cup.hp.com
From: sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall)
Subject: Yankee Bullpen - HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 26
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
Buck Showalter just can't win.
Bob Wickman's pitching the game of his life through eight innings (Yanks
lead 6-1), so Buck decides to let the kid try and get his first complete
game. Wickman manages to get two outs, but in between, four funs score,
and all of a sudden it's 6-5, and Wickman just can't get the third out.
So Buck goes to the bullpen, and Farr gets out the first guy he faces.
Last night, Jimmy Key is pitching another in a long string of games of his
life (this guy just keeps getting better!) through eight innings (Yanks
lead 4-0). This time, Buck thinks, "I don't want a repeat of that
near-fiasco with Wickman, so I'll give my bullpen some work." Steve Howe,
whose ERA was 54.00 coming into the game, left with it at 81.00. He didn't
do too good. Then Farr comes in. He gives up a two-run homer, and the
Royals win it, 6-5.
What's going on? This is already the third or fourth time this year that
the bullpen has blown a lead. Farr & Howe have done it twice together,
Monteleone's done it once, and I think even Habyan did it once. What's the
deal? We finally have terrific starting pitching, so all of a sudden, our
bullpen turns to shit!
What's Buck gonna do? And what's George gonna do if this continues to happen?
-Alan
From: marty@howdy.wustl.edu (Marty Olevitch)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Nntp-Posting-Host: howdy
Organization: Washington U. Physics Dept
Lines: 3
Bo Bilinsky?
From: erics@netcom.com (Eric Smith)
Subject: Re: Infield Fly Rule
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 31
jrogoff@scott.skidmore.edu (jay rogoff) writes:
>One last infield fly question that has always puzzled me and hasn't
>yet been addressed.  I believe the rule also does *not* deal with this
>situation:
>If Infield Fly is declared and the ball is caught, runners can tag up
>and advance at their own risk, as on any fly ball.
>However, if the Infield Fly is *not* caught, at what point can a
>runner legally leave his base w/o fear of being doubled off for
>advancing too early?  When the
>ball hits the ground?  When a fielder first touches the ball after it
>hits the ground?
>Enlightenment would be appreciated.
I'm not sure I understand this question. When the IF rule is invoked,
the batter is automatically out. This relieves the runners from being
forced to advance to the next base if the ball is not caught. Other
than that, isn't it just the same as any situation in which a runner on
a base is not forced to the next base on a dropped fly ball? That is,
if the ball is caught he can tag up and run (or decide to stay), and
if the ball is dropped he can have left the base at any time.
-----
Eric Smith
erics@netcom.com
erics@infoserv.com
CI$: 70262,3610
From: marc@yogi.austin.ibm.com (Marc J. Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Astros Are Back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Distribution: usa
Organization: IBM, Austin
Lines: 63
In article <15APR199311534452@rosie.uh.edu> st1rp@rosie.uh.edu (Schwam, David S.) writes:
>In article <C5HHwv.CvK@austin.ibm.com>, marc@yogi.austin.ibm.com (Marc J. Stephenson) writes...
>>  2) Astros relief corps holding together.  If Doug Jones keeps his changeup
>>     effective and Xavier Hernandez can be effective, then it's passable.
>>     There's no reasonable left-handed help, and the middle relief is iffy.
>>     Tom Edens was expected to take over the Joe Boever setup man role, but
>>     he's been injured, and he was an expansion team acquisition anyway.
>>     Houston thought that Boever would demand too much money, so they let him
>>     go.  Doug Jones can lose his touch - he went from Cleveland's all-star
>>     closer to the minors in a pretty short span.
>
>  From what I understand, Boever and Murphy were considered expendable by the
^^^^^^
>club.  Houston felt that their positions could be filled by a number of
>players..  Art  Doug Jones is the key to Houston's success.  He must have
>another great year for Houston to challenge in the NL West.
No argument at all with Murphy.  He scared the hell out of me when he came in
last year.  On the other hand, the club though enough of Boever to put him into
an awful lot of games (he may have led the league in appearances - he did at
least at some point).  He seemed to be a very viable setup guy - but I guess
that's not considered that crucial by the club.  I can just remember two years
ago so well, though...
...
>      The unsuspected strength of the lower part of the order has saved the
>      club so far.  Biggio and Finley just aren't doing their job of getting
>      on base.  Instead of filling his role as an RBI man, Bagwell has had to
>      assume Biggio and Finley's job.  Biggio concerns me, since he usually
>      starts the season very strong.
I'm not that concerned.  Those guys have been relatively consistent over the
years and they have no good reasons to decline (no injuries, not old, ...).
I expect them to come through just fine.  It's those guys that have not
been consistently good that are the worrisome part, even if they are coming
through right now.
>                                * * * * * *
>
>     On a side note, are you at all concerned with the rumors concerning
>next year's uniform?  There is talk that their road uniform will be
>(blech..) traditional grey, with the word "HOUSTON" written across the
>chest.  If I'm not mistaken, their home uniforms may totally eliminate
>the color orange (shiver..).  McLane's favorite color is red, so...
This sounds like their old road unis.  Pretty dull.  Buttons or pullovers?
I'll check through my uniform book to see if they've always had some orange.
>     I'm really upset.. the current unforms are dull and the new ones sound
>horrible.  I'd like to see the uniform of the mid-1980s return.  They
>may not have been pretty, but Houston had established a long precident of
>wearing the ugliest uniforms in baseball -- and I liked it.
Well, we'll see.  I've got a Astros pullover shirt with the "Astros stripes"
across the shoulders and I have trouble making myself wear it in public.  i
can see why they might want that to change.  Gee, if they eliminate the
orange, will they reupholster the seats in the Astros stripes section (what
used to be the gold and yellow levels - I don't know those numbers they use
now).
I saw a pinstripe version of an Astros cap and I actually thought it looked
good!
--
Marc Stephenson	           IBM AWS (Advanced Workstations & Systems - Austin,TX)
DISCLAIMER: The content of this posting is independent of official IBM position.
INTERNET->marc@austin.ibm.com      VNET: MARC at AUSVMQ        IBM T/L: 678-3189
From: fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu (Eric Roush)
Subject: Re: Players Rushed to Majors
Organization: Biochemistry
Lines: 35
Nntp-Posting-Host: bruchner.biochem.duke.edu
In article <93122@hydra.gatech.EDU> re4@prism.gatech.EDU (RUSSELL EARNEST)
writes:
>In article <1993Apr15.145753.21557@holos0.uucp>, lbr@holos0.uucp (Len Reed)
writes:
>> In article <C5Hq3o.G4p@tss.com> hanson@tss.com (Hanson Loo) writes:
>> >Didn't Bob Horner go straight from Arizona State Univ.
>> >to the Atlanta Braves? I remember he had one great
>> >month hitting dingers and then the next I heard
>> >he was in Japan.
>> A month?  Well, he did have a short career--compared to what one might
>> have expected for such a highly touted prospect--due to being injury prone,
>> overweight, and having no work ethic.  But he certainly did not
>> suffer from being rushed to the bigs.
>Sorry Len, this is exactly how he suffered from being rushed to the bigs.
>Being overweight and having no work ethic, leading to being injury prone with
>nothing to loose, might have been corrected in Richmond.  (Did you intend a
>smiley after your comment?)
If I remember correctly (Which is always in doubt), Horner's signing
with the Braves was contingent on starting in Atlanta.  I think
he could have gone back to Arizona St. for one more year if he hadn't
signed.  Anyhow, the Braves did try to send him to Richmond once;
it lead to a week-long walkout.  Methinks Horner had no work ethic
before he was drafted, and minor league play wouldn't have helped.
But his raw talent would have gotten him into the ML, and it did
keep him there for a while, until he started falling on his wrists.
Eric (too lazy to update his sig) Roush
From: Eastgate@world.std.com (Mark Bernstein)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Lines: 10
Al Weiss played second for the White Sox in the early sixties, chiefly as
back up to Don Buford. Good glove, no hit, some spunk.
(Which reminds me: do they still serve Kosher hot dogs at the new Comiskey?)
--
Mark Bernstein
Eastgate Systems, Inc.   134 Main Street   Watertown MA 02172 USA
voice: (800) 562-1638 in USA   +1(617) 924-9044
Eastgate@world.std.com    Compuserve: 76146,262    AppleLink:Eastgate
From: Eastgate@world.std.com (Mark Bernstein)
Subject: Jewish Broadcasters (was Jewish Baseball Players?)
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Lines: 8
For that matter, how many Gentleman of The Press Box have been Jewish? The
only Jewish sportscaster that comes to mind is Steve Williams (?), who had
a Phillies show on KYW in Philadelphia in the 80s.
--
Mark Bernstein
Eastgate Systems, Inc.   134 Main Street   Watertown MA 02172 USA
voice: (800) 562-1638 in USA   +1(617) 924-9044
Eastgate@world.std.com    Compuserve: 76146,262    AppleLink:Eastgate
From: craige@sad.hp.com (Craig Eid)
Subject: Candlestick Park experience (long)
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Lines: 36
I've been a Giants season ticket holder for years and never really complained
about the old ballyard place. Sure, it's been cold, the food lines were long,
and the hired hands were surly, but this was all part of the Giants mystique.
Or so I thought.
I went to Tuesday's game (3 - 1 Giants over the Marlins) and the 'Stick was
a much different place. Nothing short of a dome will eliminate the wind, but
everything is a lot better. The lines are a lot shorter, the bathrooms are
CLEAN and have running water, and the hired hands were very polite.
The new foghorn (lights up and blows after each homerun) and the wooden fence
are very nice, as are the new bleachers. The bleachers start right at the top
of the fence and give a great view, and they've got beer stands at the
bottome of the bleachers. The only complaint is that the electronic
old-fashioned scoreboard looks electronic - could be better.
These things should have been done a long time ago, but it took a real
businessman (ex - Safeway President Peter Magowan) to figure it out. Just
like he used to tell his checkers, "If the customers don't come back, I don't
need as many checkers". This isn't a knock on Bob Lurie - he was a competent
businessman but he didn't deal much with the general public.
I'll give an example of how the level of service has changed. The onion
dispenser jammed as I was using it. An attendant came over, apoligized for
the problem and proceeded to fix the machine. After he was done, he cleaned
the machine and said he was glad to be able to help. In the old days, there
was no attendant and the folks at the concession stands would say "Go to
the stand 100 feet away - they might be able to help".
All in all, it was a fun day
--
Craig Eid
e-mail address    craige@hpsad.sad.hp.com
From: as16@quads.uchicago.edu (adam  shah)
Subject: Re: When Is Melido Due Back?
Reply-To: as16@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Distribution: na
Lines: 18
In article <nittmo.734981173@camelot> nittmo@camelot.bradley.edu (Christopher Taylor) writes:
>When are the Yankees planning on activating Melido Perez?  His 15 days on
>the DL are up today, but are they bringing him back this weekend?
>
>Thanks for any info.
>
>
The Chicago Tribune pitching form has Perez pitching today (4/16).  But
given the way that Buck changes his rotation so often, that could just be
the work of a confused stat-page editor.
--
adam (as16@midway.uchicago.edu)
aka mercutio...
obligatory go yankees for baseball season...
5338 S Woodlawn Ave Apt 2/Chicago, IL 60615/(312) 667-3586
From: John_Carson@mindlink.bc.ca (John Carson)
Subject: Kansas City e-mail contact
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Lines: 11
Would the person who is running the e-mail list for KANSAS CITY Royals please
e-mail details regarding mailing list. If you on the list and know the info
please send me info as well.
Please e-mail as I don't have time always to read this group
John
--
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John_Carson@MINDLINK.BC.CA <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>        D.John Carson    J & H Concepts   (604)589-5118         <<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Ind. Source Picks Baerga Over Alomar: Case Closed
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: na
Lines: 24
In article <C5L6Dn.4uB@andy.bgsu.edu> klopfens@andy.bgsu.edu (Bruce Klopfenstein) writes:
>fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>>
>> I'd say you could make a good for them being about equal right now. T&P
>> rated Baerga higher, actually.
>
>Finally, an objective source.  Alomar's a great player, but so is Baerga.
>Nice to see the objective source cited rather than "my dad's bigger than
>your dad" posts.
I know.  You have this fucked up idea that anybody who prefers Alomar
to Baerga must be a Jay-Lover and Indian-Hater.  Sorry, you got that
one wrong!  I hate the Jays and don't care one way or the other about
the Indians.  But objectively, Alomar had the better offensive year
last year, so I have to pick him.
You admit T&P as a reliable(?), objective source?  Then you will note
that they rated Alomar as the better offensive player, chosing Baerga
over Alomar only because of his defense.
That's a joke!  (Alomar might not be a gold-glover, but he's certainly
no worse than Baerga defensively.)
-Valentine
From: bdunn@cco.caltech.edu (Brendan Dunn)
Subject: Re: Defensive Averages 1988-1992, Third Base
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Lines: 34
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu
In article <C5L068.6v3@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> craigs@srgenprp.sr.hp.com (Craig Stelter) writes:
>Gaetti, Gary         .616  .638  .655  .632  ----   0.637
>
>Apologies if I don't know what I'm talking about :-), but as a Twins fan,
>I like to think they have good players in any park.  Not sure if I remember
>completely or not, but I think Gaetti played with the Twins in '87 for the
>world series, and again in '88 (note that's his lowest of the 4).  I believe
>the next 3 (or at least the last two) were played with the Angels.   Lots
>of factors make a player excell...  I hate it when so many use the dome.
>It may not be ideal, but nice to comfortably enjoy baseball and football
>even when it's snowing and raining.
>
>-Craig
>
>I'm sure the company for which I work does not have all the same opinions
>that I do...
The event that had the most impact on Gaetti's career was his leg injury
in 1988.  His performance dropped radically from 1988 to 1989.  He was
still with the Twins in 1989 and 1990, but if you look at his stats (both
offensive and defensive), he never has come back to his pre-injury level.
Brendan
From: m_klein@pavo.concordia.ca (CorelMARK!)
Subject: Re: Best Homeruns
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Nntp-Posting-Host: pavo1.concordia.ca
Organization: Concordia University
Lines: 18
I haven't been following the previous HR's.  But there are two, that I saw
live that would have to be up there (up where? there!).
1) Rick Monday's HR to bury the Expos in the NL championship in 1981.
It was hit off Steve Rogers, who is a RHP and primarily a starter.
Why was he used as a reliever when the 'Spos had Reardon and BillLee
warming up in the bullpen.  Considering Monday couldn't touch LHP,
Lee would have been a safe bet.  He wasn't even doing any drugs at that
time (or so he told me and around 50 others on a recent venture into
Montreal.  The blast wasn't the important aspect.  It was the timing.
Seventh game, a tie game, and in the top of the 9th.  The Expos almost
came back though...
2) Mike Schmidt hit one that killed the Expos in 1980.  So close, yet, so
far.
and
3) Strawberry killed a pitch on the second day of the season a couple of
years ago.  It went off the technical ring in the Big O.  It almost left
the stadium!  That was hit HARD!!!
CorelMARK!
From: rja@mahogany126.cray.com (Russ Anderson)
Subject: Re: NL vs. AL?
Originator: rja@mahogany126
Lines: 12
Nntp-Posting-Host: mahogany126
Organization: The 1991 World Champion Minnesota Twins!
In article <C5Dxqp.Hoo@news.rich.bnr.ca>, bratt@crchh7a9.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (John Bratt) writes:
> How about game length?  I don't know if this is a valid statement or not,
> but AL games sure seem to last a lot longer.
Make sure to take the Sutcliff, Fisk, ect. factor into account.
--
Russ Anderson    |  Disclaimer: Any statements are my own and do not reflect
------------------              upon my employer or anyone else.  (c) 1993
EX-Twins' Jack Morris, 10 innings pitched, 0 runs (World Series MVP!)
From: steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Defensive Averages 1988-1992, Third Base
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Lines: 64
In <C5L068.6v3@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> craigs@srgenprp.sr.hp.com (Craig Stelter) writes:
>Dale Stephenson (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) wrote:
>: In <C5JJrJ.EM3@cs.uiuc.edu> steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson) writes:
>: >Compiled from the last five Defensive Average reports, here are the career
>: >DAs for the individual players in the reports.  Stats are courtesy of
>: >Sherri Nichols.  Players are listed in descending order.
>: And some comments, with some players deleted.
>: >Third Basemen
>: >-------------
>: >Leius, Scott         ----  ----  ----  .653  .680   0.672
>: Looks good.  Too bad he's moving to short.
>: >Pagliarulo, Mike     .631  ----  .575  .744  ----   0.649
>: This is an interesting line.  His 1988 figure was slightly below average.
>: His 1990 was pathetic, and his 1991 was the next best year by anybody.  Part of
>: that may be his mobility.  1988 was with the Yankees.  1990 was with the
>: Padres, who appear to have a rotten infield.  1991 was with the Twins, and
>: judging by Leius and Gaetti, the Metrodome may be a good place to play
>: third.
>Gaetti, Gary         .616  .638  .655  .632  ----   0.637
>Apologies if I don't know what I'm talking about :-), but as a Twins fan,
>I like to think they have good players in any park.  Not sure if I remember
>completely or not, but I think Gaetti played with the Twins in '87 for the
>world series, and again in '88 (note that's his lowest of the 4).  I believe
>the next 3 (or at least the last two) were played with the Angels.
Actually, Gaetti's first year with California was 1991.  His .632 DA wasn't
out of line with his career averages, and his .616 was actually below average
in 1988.  But check out the last three years at the Metrodome.
1990
Gaetti  .655
AL Avg  .604
1991
Pags    .744
Leius   .653
Al Avg  .620
1992
Leius   .680
AL Avg  .603
For the last three years, the highest DAs in either league have been posted
by Minnesota players -- three different ones, including one (Pags) who was
mediocre to horrible elsewhere.  That doesn't *prove* a park effect is at
work, any more than San Diego's horrible infield numbers prove a park effect
is at work.  But it looks like a strong possibility to me.
Lots
>of factors make a player excell...  I hate it when so many use the dome.
>It may not be ideal, but nice to comfortably enjoy baseball and football
>even when it's snowing and raining.
And it might even be a nice play to thrid base.
--
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic
"It is considered good to look wise, especially when not
overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball
From: rdetweil@boi.hp.com (Richard Detweiler)
Subject: Re: Phills vs  Pirates
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise Printer Division
Keywords: mlb, 04.16
Lines: 37
In article <1993Apr16.163712.2466@VFL.Paramax.COM> edd@gvlf4-a.gvl.unisys.com (Ed Dougherty) writes:
>
>As a Philly fan as as a Penna. baseball fan, I'm anxious to see the
>Penna. series.  Anyone know when it starts and where the first games
>will be played?
>
>This is (I think) always good baseball (to me); and the Pirates are
>also off to a good start.
>
>Ed Doc
When is it did you say?  Well let me shell out here and run this
handy dandy program....
$ mlb -m pit phi
And the answer is:
Monday,  5/10 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (5:35 pm)
Tuesday,  5/11 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (5:35 pm)
Wednesday,  5/12 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (5:35 pm)
Friday,  6/25 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:35 pm)
Saturday,  6/26 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:05 pm)
Sunday,  6/27 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (11:35 am)
Friday,  7/30 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (5:35 pm)
Saturday,  7/31 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (5:05 pm)
Sunday,  8/ 1 Pittsburg    at Philadelphia (11:35 am)
Monday,  9/27 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:35 pm)
Tuesday,  9/28 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:35 pm)
Wednesday,  9/29 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:35 pm)
Thursday,  9/30 Philadelphia at Pittsburg    (5:35 pm)
This is a great little program - its available at an ftp site near
you (unfortunatly I don't recall which one).  Any schedule question
you got is answered with this little gem.  Many thanks to the author
for providing this service.
From: st1rp@rosie.uh.edu (Schwam, David S.)
Subject: Re: ASTROS FOR REAL?
Organization: University of Houston
Lines: 51
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: rosie.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
In article <C5Ky58.12KD@austin.ibm.com>, marc@yogi.austin.ibm.com (Marc J. Stephenson) writes...
>In article <1993Apr15.234838.4138@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_millerwl@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>>WHO THINKS THE ASTROS ARE GOING PLACES???
>>THEY'RE CURRENTLY FIRST PLACE.
>>THEY'RE 5-4, 5-1 ON THE ROAD!
>
>I AGREE, LUMBERJACK (except that they're in 2nd)!  They ARE going PLACES -
>San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Cincinnati, Denver, Atlanta, Miami,
>Philadelphia, New York, Montreal, Pittsburgh, Chicago, St. Louis...and
>points in between.  :-)
>
>But,
>THEY'RE 0-3 AT HOME!
But,
THEY FACED THE PHILLIES -- A TEAM THAT GOT OFF TO AN 8-1 START.
>
>I'm just not used to an overly enthusiastic Houston fan.  I really shouldn't
>discourage it, so HANG IN THERE, LUMBERJACK!  (But, get ahold of that shift
>key, will ya?)
>
>ObBase:  Apparently the new owner (Drayton McLain (sp?)) doesn't particularly
>like excuses.  An item in our paper (the Austin American-Statesman - "If you
>read it here, it was somewhere else first") said that he wouldn't take
>injuries as an excuse for losing because that possibility should have been
>accounted for.  Uh, oh.  I don't want an owner that'll keep everybody on
>edge - I'd never gotten that feeling about him, but who knows?  Does
To be honest, I think the city of Houston loves the new owner.  He has
brought baseball back to Houston with key acquisitions -- players that
were from the Houston area and wanted to play for the Astros.  I don't
think that too many people are fearful that McLane will meddle in the team
as he has already admitted that he doesn't know a whole lot about baseball.
McLane is a businessman, and doesn't like excuses.  He makes a valid point
that injuries shouldn't be an excuse to this club.  Look at the depth of the
bench this season.. Canadele can play 7 positions; Bass and James are solid
outfielders and can hit well too; Uribe is nice to have as well..  The
pitching staff has 6 legitimate starters.  We're dealing with a young
Houston team, so injuries shouldn't play a big role.  The only threat is
the bullpen -- if Jonesy goes out, we may be in trouble but with the
type of starters we have this season, there is less pressure on the pen.
--- --- --- --- --- ---
David S. Schwam
University of Houston
st1rp@jetson.uh.edu
--- --- --- --- --- ---
From: timlin@spot.Colorado.EDU (Michael Timlin)
Subject: Re: Best Homeruns
Nntp-Posting-Host: spot.colorado.edu
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 17
dswartz@osf.org (Dan Swartzendruber) writes:
>In article <4200419@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell) writes:
>>I'd have to say the most impressive HRs I've ever see came from Dave Kingman
>>and his infamous moon-raker drives...
>I remember one he hit circa 1976 at Wrigley Field that went across
>the street (in dead center field) and hit a house on the roof.  He
>whiffed a lot, but when he *did* connect, watch out!
My favorite was the Barry Foote homer that bounced on Waveland and through
a second floor window across the street.  Second though, would be the Kong
drive that was last seen bouncing down the street that dead ends to the
park at Waveland.
Mike Timlin
timlin@spot.colorado.edu
From: rja@mahogany126.cray.com (Russ Anderson)
Subject: Re: A surfeit of offense?
Originator: rja@mahogany126
Lines: 35
Nntp-Posting-Host: mahogany126
Organization: The 1991 World Champion Minnesota Twins!
In article <1qi008INNphe@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>, pablo@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Pablo A Iglesias) writes:
> In article <1993Apr14.160447.17835@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
> >Last year the American League scored 9802 runs in 1134 games, for a
> >total of 8.6 runs per game, with 1.0 HR/game.  Through Tuesday, the AL
> >has 477 runs in 48 games, for a total of 9.9 runs per game, and a
> >total of 1.7 HR/game.  In 1987 there were 9.8 runs per game, and 2.3
> >HR/game.
>
> >The big question: How significant is this?  Have we returned to 1987?
> >Or is this just a minor abberation?
> >
> >Some thoughts:
>
> >d) I thought offense was generally down in April, rising as the
> >weather got warm and pitchers got tired.  This may be a bigger
> >abberation from the norm than it seems.
>
> 1. I don't get a feeling that the weather has been an issue this year.
>    There doesn't seem to be a really cold spell in North America which
>    does makes it harder to hit (not to mention making the ball carry less)
You obviously did not watch the Twins in Chicago.
No cold spell?  It's been snowing most of the week in Minnesota.
(5 inches in Duluth last weekend)
> I would still put things under the too early to tell category.
Yup.
--
Russ Anderson    |  Disclaimer: Any statements are my own and do not reflect
------------------              upon my employer or anyone else.  (c) 1993
EX-Twins' Jack Morris, 10 innings pitched, 0 runs (World Series MVP!)
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Subject: Dick Estelle
Nntp-Posting-Host: koufax.cv.hp.com
Organization: Our Lady Of The Stand-Up Triple
Lines: 13
Does anyone know if the Dick Estelle who does the Radio Reader on NPR is one in
the same with the lefty who pitched briefly for the Jints in '64 & '65?
Just curious.
--->Paul, spending too much time reading the baseball encyclopedia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We will stretch no farm animal beyond its natural length
paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511
home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
A SABR member since 1979
Subject: Re: Sparky Anderson Gets win #2000, Tigers beat A's
From: tim@cs.cosc.georgetown.edu (Tim Snyder)
Distribution: world
Organization: Georgetown University, Washington DC
Nntp-Posting-Host: cs.cosc.georgetown.edu
Lines: 33
In article <ragraca.734906386@vela.acs.oakland.edu> ragraca@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Randy A. Graca) writes:
>Tigers' manager Sparky Anderson gets his 2,000th career win as moments ago,
>the Tigers completed a two game sweep over the Oakland A's at Tiger Stadium
>by beating the A's 3-2. Here are the highlights:
>				R    H   E
>             Oakland		2    9   0
>	     Detroit            3    7   1
>
> [game description deleted]
>
>In the post game interview (on WJR radio in Detroit), Sparky Anderson said
>its one of the few times he's gotten emotional in his managing career.  It
>was a big moment for him, and I'm sure all of us Tiger fans are unanimously
>very happy for him.  And what a way to get number 2,000!.
>
> [woofing deleted]
>--Randy
>
In another post-game interview, LaRussa claimed that Sparky was "the
best manager in basebal," explaining that to be part of the history
of Sparky softened the blow of losing.
Go Tigers!!!
Tim
Timothy Law Snyder
Department of Computer Science
Reiss 225
Georgetown University
Washington, DC 20057
tim@normal.georgetown.edu
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Yankees win home opener
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 14
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: marinara.mit.edu
In article <93105.124117RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> writes:
} In article <1993Apr14.175545.3528@alleg.edu>, millits@yankee.org (Sam
} Millitello) says:
}
} i'm telling you, sam, three l's.  call up mom and ask.
}
} bob vesterman.
}
yeah, and in case even that isn't enough to prompt boy genius
"Sam" to pick up a paper and see how "his" name is spelled,
here's another hint: the single "L" comes between the two "I"s...
-*-
charles
From: chuck@cygnus.eid.anl.gov (Charles Cilek)
Subject: How is slugging percentage computed?
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Lines: 3
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu
Subject line says it all. Thanks in advance. Please email
chuck@cygnus.eid.anl.gov
Go Cubs!
From: ma_ind25@blurt.oswego.edu
Subject: Re:Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: SUNY College at Oswego, Oswego, NY
Lines: 3
I believe that Rusty Staub was also a jewish ball-player
Also, Mordaci Brown back in the early 20th century.  He was a pitcher whose
nickname was "3 fingers" Brown....for obvious reasons....he had 3 fingers.
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Braves Pitching UpdateDIR
Originator: news@nimaster
Nntp-Posting-Host: crux.princeton.edu
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Lines: 23
In article <1993Apr15.214032.1@acad.drake.edu> sbp002@acad.drake.edu writes:
>> Not clear to me at all.  I'd certainly rather have a team who was winning
>> 4-1 games than 2-1 games.  In the 2-1 game, luck is going to play a much
>> bigger role than in the 4-1 game.
>But you still need the pitching staff to hold the opposing team to
>one run.
Not if you've scored four runs, you don't!  Why strain even the best pitching
staff?  Why not make it easier for them?
In the 2-1 game, the best pitching staff in the world can't compensate
for a blown call, a bad hop, a gust of wind.  Winning close is the
wrong way to win; both keeping opposing runs down AND scoring a lot
yourself are insurance against the "Shit happens" aspect of baseball.
Not every great teamhas even *good* pitching.  The Big Red Machine of
the 70's was league-average in pitching.  But somehow, Rose-Morgan-Bench-
Perez-etc. managed to win 100 games more than once, peaking at 108.
Roger
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: ALL-TIME BEST PLAYERS
Originator: news@nimaster
Nntp-Posting-Host: crux.princeton.edu
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Lines: 40
In article <1993Apr15.125205.29853@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> (jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu) writes:
>In article <1993Apr14.173428.12056@Princeton.EDU>, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>> >In article <1993Apr13.115313.17986@bsu-ucs>, 00mbstultz@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
>> >     writes...
>> >>I've recently been working on project to determine the greatest
>> >>players at their respective postions.
>> >>2B  Career
>What about U. Johnny Hodapp, the greatest 2nd baseman in Cleveland Indians
>history?  225 hits in 1930, consistantly over .300.  A great, great second baseman.
Um, the header said *career.*  Hodapp managed about 3000 PA in his
nine years in the majors.
As for his "consistently over .300," make that "three years in a row,
preceded by a part-time year, plus his last year, with Boston."  Hodapp
only qualified for the batting title five times.
Was he injured?  He retired right around his 28th birthday.
Anyway, Hodapp put up flashy numbers the year *everybody* put up
flashy numbers.  That was his only really good year with a bat;
his other .300 years were marred by a lack of power and an inability
to draw walks.  Only 163 of those 3000 PA were bases on balls, which
does not describe a feared hitter.
On the other hand, he was part of the long line of famous Cleveland 2B:
Wambsganss, Riggs Stephenson, etc.
Roger
>
>Jon "Johnny" Hodapp
>jmhodapp@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu
>=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: New Home for the Bosox!!!
Originator: news@nimaster
Nntp-Posting-Host: crux.princeton.edu
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Lines: 30
In article <1993Apr15.132741.11322@scott.skidmore.edu> jrogoff@scott.skidmore.edu (jay rogoff) writes:
>> I agree, though I'd also be happy with a stadium that looks
>> like new Comiskey. The new park was also made for baseball.
>> Unlike Three Rivers, the Vet, Riverfront, etc., it's not a
>> football park in which they also play baseball.
>While we're on the multipurpose subject, let's not forget Shea, which
>was designed to accommodate both the Mets & Jets.  It was the first
>stadium (I think) to have the box seats on rollers so they could be
>oriented at right angles for baseball & in parallel for football.
Not the first.  RFK, olim DC Stadium, was built 2 years earlier.
Nowadays they don't move the seats back for the few exhibition
games; but the 3rd-base/LF lower deck used to move.  It was all
metal, which was pretty noisy on Bat Day.
>Of course, with the Jets gone to Jersey (and a truly good football
>stadium), the Mets are saddled with a multipurpose stadium where,
>because it's circular, the seats are almost always too far from the
>action.  The Mets announcers--Kiner & Murphy in particular--have
>always hyped it as "beautiful Shea
>Stadium," a tipoff to how unbeautiful it truly is.
It's vastly better than it was before they fixed it, though.  Back in
the late 70's it was a *dump*.
Roger (don't you*like* jet noise?)
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: DAVE KINGMAN FOR THE HALL OF FAME
Originator: news@nimaster
Nntp-Posting-Host: crux.princeton.edu
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Lines: 85
In article <1993Apr15.093231.5148@news.yale.edu> (Steve Tomassi) writes:
>     Hi, baseball fans! So what do you say? Don't you think he deserves it?
>I
>mean, heck, if Dave Winfield (ho-hum) is seriously being considered for it,
>as
>is Lee Smith (ha), then why don't we give Dave Kingman a chance? Or Darrell
>Evans! Yeah, yeah! After the Hall of Fame takes in them, it can take in
>Eddie
>Murray and Jeff Reardon.
Um, what?  Eddie Murray was a superb first baseman for a *long* time.
Winfield as produced consistently for almsot 20 years, and excellently
on several occasions.
Dave Kingman's *best* year was like Darryl Strawberry's *typical*
year with the Mets.
Darrell Evans, too, did a whole lot more than just hit homers, which
*is* all that Kong did.
>     Well, in any case, I am sick and tired (mostly sick) of everybody
>giving
>Hall of Fame consideration to players that are by today's standards,
>marginal.
Whom are you talking about?  Yes, Eddie Murray is marginal, but that's
because he's 38 years old.  He wasn't marginal for a *long* time.
>Honestly, Ozzie Smith and Robin Yount don't belong there. They're both
>shortstops that just hung around for a long time. Big deal.
Not.
Smith has hung around for a long time AND fielded the position better
than anyone else ever has.
Yount stopped being a shortstop about a decade ago, in case you hadn't
noticed.
One of his two MVP awards was as a centerfielder.
>     Let's be a little more selective, huh? Stop handing out these honors
>so
>liberally. Save them for the guys who really deserve it. Face it, if
Like whom?  There are many players in the Hall who aren't anywhere near
as goos as the guys you're running down.
>something
>isn't done, there will be little prestige in the Hall of Fame anymore. When
That's already the case, by some standards.  But the *bad* players in the
Hall are all from the 20's and 30's.  Recent picks have generally been
excellent.
>certain individuals believe that Steve Garvey or Jack Morris are potential
>candidates, the absurdity is apparent. Gee, can these guys even compare to
>the more likely future Hall of Famers like Kirby Puckett or Nolan Ryan?
No, but who cares?  Was Stan Musial anywhere near as good as Babe Ruth?
Not really.  But he obviously belongs there.
The Hall has generally had about the top 1% of major leaguers.  As
more players come through the game, more will be in that top 1%.
And, yes, it's pretty easy to argue that Smith,. Yount, Evans, Winfield,
etc. are in the top 1%.  Dave Kingman on the other hand, was a liability
throughout most of his career.
Of course, Garvey *hasn't* gotten a lot of HOF press, so I don't know
what you mean.
As for Ryan, is his W-L better than Morris'?  That's what a lot of voters
tend to look at.  And Morris *was* awfully good for a decade, and doesn't
lead MLB history in walks allowed, either.
Roger
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Originator: news@nimaster
Nntp-Posting-Host: crux.princeton.edu
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Lines: 24
In article <15APR93.14691229.0062@lafibm.lafayette.edu> VB30@lafibm.lafayette.edu (VB30) writes:
>Just wondering.  A friend and I were talking the other day, and
>we were (for some reason) trying to come up with names of Jewish
>baseball players, past and present.  We weren't able to come up
>with much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and
>maybe John Lowenstein.  Can anyone come up with any more.  I know
>it sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but
>humor us.  Thanks for your help.
Stankiewicz?  I doubt it.
Koufax was one of two Jewish HOFs: the other is Hank Greenberg.
Other good players: Buddy Myer, Johnny Kling, Norm and Larry Sherry,
Ken Holtzman, Saul Rogovin, Ed Reulbach.
There have been over 150 Jewish major leaguers.  A few years ago there
was an article about someone who keeps track of this in Spy magazine;
the article was entitled "Jews on First," of course.
There have also been at least two books on the subject.
Roger
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Originator: news@nimaster
Nntp-Posting-Host: crux.princeton.edu
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Lines: 39
In article <1993Apr15.221049.14347@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1qkkodINN5f5@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> pablo@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Pablo A Iglesias) writes:
>>In article <15APR93.14691229.0062@lafibm.lafayette.edu> VB30@lafibm.lafayette.edu (VB30) writes:
>>>Just wondering.  A friend and I were talking the other day, and
>>>we were (for some reason) trying to come up with names of Jewish
>>>baseball players, past and present.  We weren't able to come up
>>>with much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and
>>>maybe John Lowenstein.  Can anyone come up with any more.  I know
>>>it sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but
>>>humor us.  Thanks for your help.
>>Hank Greenberg would have to be the most famous, because his Jewish
>>faith actually affected his play. (missing late season or was it world
>>series games because of Yom Kippur)
>The other Jewish HOF'er is Rod Carew (who converted).
Did he ever really convert?  He married a Jewish woman, but I've never
heard him say he converted.  Elliot Maddox, on the other hand...
>Lowenstein is Jewish, as well as Montana's only representative to the
>major leagues.
>Undeserving Cy Young award winner Steve Stone is Jewish.  Between Stone,
>Koufax, Ken Holtzman (? might have the wrong pitcher, I'm thinking of the
>one who threw a no-hitter in both the AL and NL), and Big Ed Reulbach,
>that's quite a starting rotation.  Moe Berg can catch.  Harry Steinfeldt,
>the 3b in the Tinkers-Evers-Chance infield.
Yep, Holtzman.  Saul Rogovin won an ERA title in 1949 or so before blowing out
the arm.
>Is Stanky Jewish?  Or is that just a "Dave Cohen" kinda misinterpretation?
>Whatever, doesn't look like he stuck around the majors too long.
I'd be surprised.  btw, they may just be shopping Gallego around to
make room for AS.
Roger
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Sandberg, Runs, RBIs (was: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series)
Originator: news@nimaster
Nntp-Posting-Host: crux.princeton.edu
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: na
Lines: 36
In article <C5JqBy.M7A@news.rich.bnr.ca> bratt@crchh7a9.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (John Bratt) writes:
>In article <C5JM0M.6Jw@cs.dal.ca>, niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gord Niguma) writes:
>|>
>|>   Alomar fans left RBI fans and Runs off this list because they are dependant
>|> on the team. (To a large extent). If Frank Thomas hit first, he'd lose a LOT
>|> of RBI's; and anyways how many 2nd place hitters have you known to drive
>|> in 100 runs? Doesn't happen that often.....very unlikely with Devon White's
>|> ~.300 OBP in front of you...
>I'm pretty sure that Sandberg has done this at least once.  (I know someone
>will correct me if I'm wrong.)
>RBIs and Runs scored are the two most important offensive statistics.  You
>can talk about OBP and SLG% all you want, but the fact remains:
>	The team that scores more runs wins the game!
>	---------------------------------------------
Right.  So who cares which PLAYER gets credited, as long as the TEAM
gets more runs?  If a player helps the TEAM get more R and RBI, but
doesn't score them all himself, who cares?
Consider:
Player A: single.
Player B: grounder to short; reaches on the force at 2nd.
Player C: Double, B to 3rd.
Player D: Sac fly.
B gets a run, D gets an RBI.  Are you *sure* they helped the team
more than A and C?  Think hard, now.
>Flame Away
As you wish.
Roger
From: mlogan@thurman.prime.com (Max Logan x2313 5-1)
Subject: Re: New Home for the Bosox!!!
Lines: 20
MIF101@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>
>    I heard about a month back that the Red Sox are getting a new dome stadium.
> I have relatives that just moved up that way, and they said about the city
> releasing the funds.  Can anybody verify this?
> to a game
>
>                                               Bosox fan in Pa
I have lived in the Boston area for 15 years now.  They have been talking
about a new Boston Garden (hockey/basketball) since I've lived here.  One
day the "last hurdle" has been overcome, and the next day there's a new
hurdle.  Fans have been grumbling about Foxboro Stadium (or whatever it's
called this year) for nearly as long, but there are only preliminary
proposals for a new stadium.  Local politics prevents anything from being
done in a timely fashion.  There will not be a new ballpark in my
lifetime.
Max Logan
Nashua NH
Subject: Cubs mailing list
From: andrew@dark.side.of.the.moon.uoknor.edu (Chihuahua Charlie)
Distribution: usa
Organization: OU - Academic User Services
Nntp-Posting-Host: loopback.uoknor.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    Lines: 14
Lines: 14
Is there anyone out there running a Chicago National
League Ballclub list?  If so, please send me information
on it to...
andrew@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu
Thanks!
|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|
|O|  _    |  Chihuahua Charlie              |  OU is not responsible   |O|
|O| | |   |  Academic User Services         |  for anything anywhere,  |O|
|O| ||||  |  The University of Oklahoma     |  except for that one     |O|
|O|  |_|  |  andrew@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu |  incident where 200...   |O|
|O|____________________________________________________________________|O|
From: zappala@pollux.usc.edu (Daniel Zappala)
Subject: Re: Darrrrrrrrryl
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 31
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu
Mark Singer brings up the Strawberry Incident, where he lost a homerun
and the fan caught it.
|> Before each Dodger game the public address announcer makes a speech
|> wherein he says that fans are welcome to the souvenirs of balls that
|> are hit into the stands as long as they do not interfere with any
|> that are in the field of play.  Was the fan wrong?  Should he have
|> been more aware of the situation and acted to avoid any possibility
|> of interference?
Yes, I think he should have done more to get out of the way.  As much
as fans want to catch a ball, they really should be aware that winning
the game is more important.  As a Dodger fan, he has to be aware that
this is the home stadium, and that entails helping the home team win
in any way possible.  As soon as the ball was hit that far, his first
instinct should be to root for Darryl to catch it, not to try to catch
it himself, particularly when he is sitting that close.
I enjoy the attitude of the Wrigley fans, where they are against
visiting team home runs so much, they actually throw them back on the
field.
Now, this has nothing to do with whether Darryl could have caught it or
not.  Sure, he probably screwed up, but the fan should realize his
first responsibility is to get out of the way and help the team win.
Daniel
daniel@caldera.usc.edu
From: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu (David J.)
Subject: Re: Yankee Bullpen - HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nntp-Posting-Host: clove.journalism.indiana.edu
Reply-To: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Lines: 15
Alan Sepinwall writes
> [Bullpen Blues deleted]
>
> What's Buck gonna do? And what's George gonna do if this continues to happen?
>
> -Alan
George will do the only logical thing he can do when the Yanks' bullpen isn't
performing -- fire the manager.
--
David J.(dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu)*****Blue Riddle Productions 1993
*-------------------------------It's on.--------------------------------*
***"THE RAP IS AN ART EP" is coming out on tape -- this time for real.***
*------------------------E-mail me for the 411.-------------------------*
From: kubey@sgi.com (Ken Kubey)
Subject: Re: DAVE KINGMAN FOR THE HALL OF FAME
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA
Lines: 16
Nntp-Posting-Host: summit.wpd.sgi.com
In article <1993Apr16.011653.7403@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>
>As for Ryan, is his W-L better than Morris'?  That's what a lot of voters
>tend to look at.  And Morris *was* awfully good for a decade, and doesn't
>lead MLB history in walks allowed, either.
Despite walks and loses, Ryan deserves to be in the Hall of Fame (IMHO)
based only on his ho-hitters.  The strike-out records are an extra.
What do people think about Andre "400 HR" Dawson for the HOF?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name:       Ken Kubey  or  QB   |  Reading, editing or printing of this text
Address:    kubey@sgi.com       |  without the express written consent of
Disclaimer: the usual           |  Major League Baseball is prohibited.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: st1ge@Jane.UH.EDU (Edward Hui)
Subject: Re: Bonds vs. Maddux
Organization: University of Houston
Lines: 55
Reply-To: st1ge@Jane.UH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
In article <C5L99L.HFz@cup.hp.com>, loos@cup.hp.com (Joe Loos) writes:
>I've been following the Giants closely over the off-season -- newspapers,
>notesgroup, etc -- but I had my first up close and personal last night at
>the Stick.
>
>After watching Giants hitters struggle last year, Barry's swing was
>very impressive -- he's very quick and his swing seems effortless, even
>compared to Clark (particularly Clark as of late).
>
>It was interesting to see Bonds hit Maddux so well.  I'm not sure if
>Barry was after revenge against the Braves or what but he stroked
>three very pretty hits (1b, 2b, hr) for 5 rbi's.
The Giants always hit Maddux well, but it was interesting that Maddux
did not pitch around Bonds to get to Clayton last night.  He threw 2 straight
fastballs over the plate to Bonds in the 1st last night, got away with the
first one, but Bonds hit the second one out of the park.  Then in the 3rd,
when Clark was at third base with one out, Maddux did not intentionally
walk Bonds, and Bonds dropped a single to left-center.
>
>The Giants as a team are doing a lot of surprising things this year in
>addition to Bonds.  There has been some good pitching and some hitters
>seem to be swinging much better.  Clayton's defense has been superb.
>McGee seems to like leading off this year.  Manwaring is driving the ball.
>So on & so forth.
>
The Braves announcers pointed out that McGee as a leadoff hitter has
not scored a run yet.  He will always hit around .300, but I'm concerning
about his on-base percentage.  The key in the lineup is Matt Williams, he
has to stay hot so that Bonds can hit with runners on base.
>I hope it continues...I think they need to continue well into June before
>people are really sold that they are for real--particularly the pitching.
The pitching gets a set back as Bud Black is placed on the DL.  Burba
has done a superb job filling in so far, he looks like a different pitcher
from last year.  However, Swift is terrible in both of his starts.  With
Burba moving into the rotation, Mike Jackson is the only right-handed
reliever aside from Rod Beck, he'll get a lot of actions.  I also hope that
Dusty can manage his bullpen better than Roger Craig, especially on Beck.
I was concerned when Beck was used for 3 straight days earlier this week.
>For myself, I think the fresh start of Magowan/Baker/etc has really wiped
>out a lot of negatives from the last few years and will be a real factor
>in helping them significantly improve over last year.
So far so good!
Edward Hui
From: traven@pitt.edu (Neal Traven)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Lines: 21
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
ma_ind25@blurt.oswego.edu wrote:
: I believe that Rusty Staub was also a jewish ball-player
: Also, Mordaci Brown back in the early 20th century.  He was a pitcher whose
: nickname was "3 fingers" Brown....for obvious reasons....he had 3 fingers.
0 for 2, ma_ind25.
Daniel Patrick Staub is a Catholic school kid from Nawlins, Mordecai
Brown a farm kid (probably Protestant) from somewhere in the Midwest.
He lost those fingers in a farm machinery accident.
Jim Palmer isn't Jewish himself, but Mr. Jockey Shorts's adoptive
parents are.
Also, I'm not absolutely certain that Carew actually converted.  His
wife and children certainly are Jewish.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
neal	traven+@pitt.edu	      You're only young once, but you can be
traven@vms.cis.pitt.edu	       immature forever.   -- Larry Andersen
From: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu (David J.)
Subject: Re: Why Spanky?
Nntp-Posting-Host: clove.journalism.indiana.edu
Reply-To: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Lines: 37
Sherri Nichols writes
> In article <1ql93bINN1s5@postoffice1.psc.edu> boone@psc.edu (Jon Boone)
writes:
> >       Spanky is too slow!  If he were quicker, he would still be here.
> >But with Slaught and Tom Prince, they didn't want to lose Prince in order
> >to bring up that 11th pitcher.  Slaught is about as good as Spanky and
> >Prince is coming along nicely!
>
> Tom Prince is a 28 year old no-hit catcher.  Think of him as a young Dann
> Bilardello.
Or a young Don Bordello...
> I can't begin to fathom why the Pirates have been so afraid of
> losing this guy, who's been in AAA most of the last 5 seasons.  The Pirates
> released Kirk Gibson last year because Prince was out of options, then
> eventually sent Prince down anyway, and he cleared waivers without a peep.
> He's another year older, and still can't hit; why do they think he wouldn't
> clear waivers now?  Why would they care?
There's a strong possibility that the Bucs have absolutely no other catching
prospects in the minors at this point -- at least nobody ready for any serious
AAA/majors duty.  The main reason they might have stayed with Prince could be
just age, especially if Spanky was creeping toward his mid-30s or something.
All things considered, though, I'd be a lot more comfortable with Spanky behind
the plate than Prince.  Isn't there decent backup backstop out there looking
for work?
> Sherri Nichols
> snichols@adobe.com
--
David J.(dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu)*****Blue Riddle Productions 1993
*-------------------------------It's on.--------------------------------*
***"THE RAP IS AN ART EP" is coming out on tape -- this time for real.***
*------------------------E-mail me for the 411.-------------------------*
From: scott@asd.com (Scott Barman)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: American Software Development Corp., West Babylon, NY
Lines: 16
In article <15APR93.14691229.0062@lafibm.lafayette.edu> VB30@lafibm.lafayette.edu (VB30) writes:
>Just wondering.  A friend and I were talking the other day, and
>we were (for some reason) trying to come up with names of Jewish
>baseball players, past and present.  We weren't able to come up
>with much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and
>maybe John Lowenstein.  Can anyone come up with any more.  I know
>it sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but
>humor us.  Thanks for your help.
Wasn't Ron Bloomberg, the former Yankee who got the first base hit
by a Designated Hitter, Jewish??
--
scott barman    | Mets Mailing List (feed the following into your shell):
scott@asd.com   |            mail mets-request@asd.com <<!
|            subscribe
Let's Go Mets! |            !
From: scott@asd.com (Scott Barman)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: American Software Development Corp., West Babylon, NY
Lines: 18
In article <15APR93.14691229.0062@lafibm.lafayette.edu> VB30@lafibm.lafayette.edu (VB30) writes:
>Just wondering.  A friend and I were talking the other day, and
>we were (for some reason) trying to come up with names of Jewish
>baseball players, past and present.  We weren't able to come up
>with much, except for Sandy Koufax, (somebody) Stankowitz, and
>maybe John Lowenstein.  Can anyone come up with any more.  I know
>it sounds pretty lame to be racking our brains over this, but
>humor us.  Thanks for your help.
>
Oh... I forgot... Art Shamsky, former Red and Mets player.  Batted .301
between injuries in 1969 (fell short of qualifying for Top 10 because of
injuries and platoon with Ron Swoboda; no Swobo wasn't Jewish).
--
scott barman    | Mets Mailing List (feed the following into your shell):
scott@asd.com   |            mail mets-request@asd.com <<!
|            subscribe
Let's Go Mets! |            !
From: scott@asd.com (Scott Barman)
Subject: Re: Sid Fernandez?
Organization: American Software Development Corp., West Babylon, NY
Distribution: usa
Lines: 18
In article <1993Apr15.145914.1575@csi.jpl.nasa.gov> cub@csi.jpl.nasa.gov (Ray Miller) writes:
>I read this morning that Sid Fernandez left last nights' game with stiffness
>in his shoulder. Does anyone have any information as to the extent of the
>injury (if indeed there is one), or weather the cold air in Colorado just got
>his joints a little stiff?
>
>Thanks for the help...
All they said on the radio that he developed stiffness in the shoulder
after throwing a curveball that didn't loosen.  Because of the cold
night in Denver they decided to remove him from the game rather than
let him pitch.  He is expected to pitch his next turn in the rotation
(expected to be April 20, at Shea vs the Giants).
--
scott barman    | Mets Mailing List (feed the following into your shell):
scott@asd.com   |            mail mets-request@asd.com <<!
|            subscribe
Let's Go Mets! |            !
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Best Homeruns
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 22
NNTP-Posting-Host: electric-monk.mit.edu
In article <1993Apr16.172502.2301@osf.org> dswartz@osf.org (Dan Swartzendruber) writes:
} In article <4200419@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell) writes:
} >I'd have to say the most impressive HRs I've ever see came from Dave Kingman
} >and his infamous moon-raker drives...
}
} I remember one he hit circa 1976 at Wrigley Field that went across
} the street (in dead center field) and hit a house on the roof.  He
} whiffed a lot, but when he *did* connect, watch out!
the best home run i have *ever* seen came off, believe it or not,
Roger Clemens (sorry, Val) a couple of years ago. he threw a ball to
Incaviglia which was literally at Inky's neck, and he absolutely
hammered the crap out of it. after the swing, Clemens nonchalantly
motioned for a new ball--he didn't even turn around to look, or
even get upset. the ball hit the lights in the left-field standard,
some 70 or so feet about the Green Monster (over 100 feet above the
ground total!)
truly an amazing shot.
-*-
charles
From: fls@keynes.econ.duke.edu (Forrest Smith)
Subject: Re: Braves Pitching UpdateDIR
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.
Lines: 19
Nntp-Posting-Host: keynes.econ.duke.edu
Amazingly, pitchers, no matter how good their mechanics, are
not machines.  Cy Young winners don't pitch in a vaccuum, unaware
of how their offenses are doing.
The Braves' pitching staff is already showing signs of
cracking under the strain of knowing they're not going to get many
(if any) runs.  Unfortunately, the Braves' pitchers were so bad for so
long that the organization put so much stress (and I mean *stress*)
on pitching that they completely ignored hitting.
The Braves right now are looking woefully similar to the Braves of
the mid-seventies.  Heaven help us.
--
@econ.duke.edu     fls@econ.duke.edu     fls@econ.duke.edu    fls@econ.duke.
s  To my correspondents:  My email has been changed.                       e
l                         My new address is:  fls@econ.duke.edu            d
f            If mail bounces, try fls@raphael.acpub.duke.edu               u
From: fls@keynes.econ.duke.edu (Forrest Smith)
Subject: Braves "Stoppers"
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.
Lines: 22
Nntp-Posting-Host: keynes.econ.duke.edu
The term "stopper" is generally used to refer to a pitcher, one
who can be counted on to pitch a strong game to keep his team from going
on a losing streak.
The Braves have plenty of pitchers to fit this description,
although right now I'd expect Smoltz or Glavine to take the mantle.
What the Braves lack, however, is an offensive stopper,
somebody they can look to to bring them out of their hitting slump.
There's just no one there.  The Braves got rid of their best pure
hitter, Lonnie Smith, and only Terry Pendleton on the current roster
has ever shown more than a cursory ability to hit.
Oh, and another thing that worries me.  Ron Gant seems to have
slowed down a step.  That's scary.  A slow Ron Gant doesn't have much going
for him.
--
@econ.duke.edu     fls@econ.duke.edu     fls@econ.duke.edu    fls@econ.duke.
s  To my correspondents:  My email has been changed.                       e
l                         My new address is:  fls@econ.duke.edu            d
f            If mail bounces, try fls@raphael.acpub.duke.edu               u
From: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu (David J.)
Subject: Re: Omar Vizquel - GRAND SALAMI?
Nntp-Posting-Host: clove.journalism.indiana.edu
Reply-To: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Lines: 16
Cheryl Marks writes
>
> Do you think Omar's grand slam is the result of his new fan club?  Last week
> a banner appeared in the Kingdome:
>
> 	OLDER WOMEN FOR OMAR
That depends.  Just how much older were they?
> Cheryl
--
David J.(dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu)*****Blue Riddle Productions 1993
*-------------------------------It's on.--------------------------------*
***"THE RAP IS AN ART EP" is coming out on tape -- this time for real.***
*------------------------E-mail me for the 411.-------------------------*
From: kime@mongoose.torolab.ibm.com (Edward Kim)
Subject: Re: Ind. Source Picks Baerga Over Alomar: Case Closed
In-Reply-To: tedward@cs.cornell.edu's message of Fri, 16 Apr 1993 19:07:35 GMT
Distribution: na
Lines: 8
<1993Apr16.190735.13322@cs.cornell.edu>
Organization: IBM Toronto Lab
> That's a joke!  (Alomar might not be a gold-glover, but he's certainly
> no worse than Baerga defensively.)
Actually Alomar is a two-time gold-glover (91-92).
>
> -Valentine
Edk
From: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu (David J.)
Subject: mlb.c
Nntp-Posting-Host: clove.journalism.indiana.edu
Reply-To: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Lines: 8
Could some kind soul out there e-mail me the 411 on where I can find the mlb.c
program?  I'm interested in some road trips this year....
--
David J.(dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu)*****Blue Riddle Productions 1993
*-------------------------------It's on.--------------------------------*
***"THE RAP IS AN ART EP" is coming out on tape -- this time for real.***
*------------------------E-mail me for the 411.-------------------------*
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Subject: Re: Gotta a Question....
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Lines: 24
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
NNTP-Posting-Host: g215a-1.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
In article <47844@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:
>In article <cjkuo.68.0@symantec.com>, cjkuo@symantec.com (Jimmy Kuo) writes:
> |> gt0523e@prism.gatech.EDU (Michael Andre Mule) writes:
> ....
> |> >>What is the maximum runs allowed before a stopper can get credit for a
> |> >>relief? i.e. if a stopper comes in with a 5 run lead does he getcredit
> |> >> with the save.
> |> >If you come in and pitch the last three innings,and your team was ahead
> |> >when you got out there and wins the game, you get a save.
> |> Sort'a correct. If you pitched at least 3 innings,entered with your team
> |> in the lead, was the pitcher when the game ended,the game was never tied
> |> during your stint, and your team won, you get a save.
> Well, the rulebook says that in the opinion of the scorer, you must have
> "pitched effectively" for your 3 innings - this save is not automatic,
> unlike the others.
Someone in SABR actually looked at these games a few years ago
and found that the official scorer awarded the save in every one
of the games - even those in which the pitcher had pitched badly
(allowing 4 or 5 runs).
seeing, hearing (my two sense worth)
john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Sandberg, Runs, RBIs (was: Re: Notes on Jays vs. Indians Series)
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: na
Lines: 53
In article <1993Apr16.013145.8770@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>
>Right.  So who cares which PLAYER gets credited, as long as the TEAM
>gets more runs?  If a player helps the TEAM get more R and RBI, but
>doesn't score them all himself, who cares?
Amusing, isn't it?  Seems only the SDCNs realize how much baseball is
a *team* game, combining efforts from every player for the win.
Consider the Red Sox game last night.  The Sox won 4-3 in the bottom
of the 13th.  Who won the game?
-Clemens pitched a strong nine (?) innings, allowing only two runs.
-Ryan pitched a couple shutout innings, though he needed some excellent
defensive plays behind him to do so.
-Quantrill pitched a couple of innings, gave up the go-ahead run, and
got credited with the win when the Sox scored two in the bottom of
the inning.
Looks like a team effort to me!  Yet only Quantrill got credit for
the win.
How about the offense?
-Dawson and Vaughn hit (I think) HRs early in the game.  Without either
one, the Sox would have lost in nine.
-Quintana led off the 13th with a solid single.
-Zupcic pinch-ran for Quintana, providing the speed to go from first
to third when...
-Cooper ripped a *second* single in the inning.
-Melvin avoided the DP, getting the run home with a sac fly.  Not much of
a help, but it was something.
-Scrub Richardson then hit a double, scoring the speedy Cooper all the
way from first!  (Hill's lack of defense helped.)
Cooper and Zupcic were credited with runs, Melvin and Richardson were
credited with RBIs.  But it seems to me that it was Quintana's hit
that set up the whole inning!  And did Melvin really contribute as
much as Richardson?
Furthermore, people seem to consider RBIs to be more significant than
runs.  Did Melvin contribute more than Cooper?  Cooper provided the
game-winning baserunner, and moved the tying run to third base with
only one out!
Assigning credit based on Runs and RBIs is clearly ridiculous.  You
can argue that OBP and SLG don't show you who came through in the
clutch, but R&RBI don't do any better.  At least OBP and SLG don't
*claim* to try to tell you that.
Here's to the Red Sox who contributed to last night's victory.
All 20 of them!
-Valentine
From: thornley@micro.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Subject: Re: Erickson, Keith Miller?
Article-I.D.: news2.C5LHyD.GEx
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Lines: 17
Nntp-Posting-Host: micro.cs.umn.edu
In article <1993Apr16.032554.12401@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> frankkim@CATFISH.LCS.MIT.EDU (Frank Kim) writes:
>
>HI,
>
>I was just wondering if anyone knew when Erickson
>and Keith Miller are expected to come back and what
>exactly ails them.
>
Dunno about Miller.
If you mean Scott Erickson, currently the reigning Twins Least Consistent
Good Player, he pulled a muscle in the neighborhood of the rib cage that
made it essentially impossible for him to pitch temporarily, and is
expected back on the mound Sunday.
David Thornley
"With tickets to see one of the Scott Ericksons pitch"
From: fls@keynes.econ.duke.edu (Forrest Smith)
Subject: Re: Infield Fly Rule
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.
Lines: 13
Nntp-Posting-Host: keynes.econ.duke.edu
In article <1qmrciINNoin@gap.caltech.edu> shippert@cco.caltech.edu (Tim Shippert) writes:
[about the infield fly rule]
>So, if he's feeling lucky, your runner at second can sprint for glory
>as soon as the ball is popped up.  If it isn't caught, he's probably scored
>a run.  If it is, he's probably headed for AAA.
>
Unless he's Deion Sanders, in which case he just heads back to the
dugout and waits for his next base-running-blunder opportunity.
--
@econ.duke.edu     fls@econ.duke.edu     fls@econ.duke.edu    fls@econ.duke.
s  To my correspondents:  My email has been changed.                       e
l                         My new address is:  fls@econ.duke.edu            d
f            If mail bounces, try fls@raphael.acpub.duke.edu               u
From: sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall)
Subject: Re: When Is Melido Due Back?
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 16
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
Melido came off the DL today and will start tonight against the Rangers.
(Now, if only he can go the distance so that the bullpen doesn't have to
come in.....)
--I'm outta here like Vladimir!
-Alan Sepinwall
===========================================================================
| "What's this?  This is ice.  This is what happens to water when it gets |
|  too cold.  This?  This is Kent.  This is what happens to people when   |
|  they get too sexually frustrated."                                     |
|               -Val Kilmer, "Real Genius"                                |
===========================================================================
From: sepinwal@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall)
Subject: Re: WFAN
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 27
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
In article <1993Apr16.174843.28111@cabell.vcu.edu> csc2imd@cabell.vcu.edu (Ian M. Derby) writes:
>On the serious side:  Maybe we should have a sub for Sports Radio/TV.
>
>As much as people complain about one station or another, the
>information you hear is a lot more in depth than what you can get on
>the AP wire or USA Today.  So, to benefit those who have favorite
>teams outside of their vicinity, this would do wonders.  People can
>get on and talk about what Cataldi said about the Eagles or what
>Lupica said of the Bonilla incident etc.  This can be for any station
>across the country.  Anyone agree?
I agree, although I would have no idea how to go about doing it. But
you've got my vote.
--I'm outta here like Vladimir
--Alan
===========================================================================
| "What's this?  This is ice.  This is what happens to water when it gets |
|  too cold.  This?  This is Kent.  This is what happens to people when   |
|  they get too sexually frustrated."                                     |
|               -Val Kilmer, "Real Genius"                                |
===========================================================================
From: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu (David J.)
Subject: Re: Bonilla
Nntp-Posting-Host: clove.journalism.indiana.edu
Reply-To: dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Lines: 11
Jiann-ming Su writes
> Bobby Bonilla supposedly use the word 'faggot' when he got mad at that author
> in the clubhouse.  Should he be banned from baseball for a year like Schott?
It wouldn't bother me...
--
David J.(dwarner@journalism.indiana.edu)*****Blue Riddle Productions 1993
*-------------------------------It's on.--------------------------------*
***"THE RAP IS AN ART EP" is coming out on tape -- this time for real.***
*------------------------E-mail me for the 411.-------------------------*
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Best Homeruns
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Lines: 18
In article <1qn6tqINNmnf@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>
>the best home run i have *ever* seen came off, believe it or not,
>Roger Clemens (sorry, Val) a couple of years ago. he threw a ball to
>Incaviglia which was literally at Inky's neck, and he absolutely
>hammered the crap out of it. after the swing, Clemens nonchalantly
>motioned for a new ball--he didn't even turn around to look, or
>even get upset. the ball hit the lights in the left-field standard,
>some 70 or so feet about the Green Monster (over 100 feet above the
>ground total!)
>
>truly an amazing shot.
I agree.  Home runs off Clemens are always memorable.  Kinda like
eclipses and hurricanes.  They don't happen very often.
Cheers,
-Valentine
From: gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami)
Subject: Re: Jewish Baseball Players?
Organization: Brotherhood Of Breath
Lines: 8
I thought that Walt Weiss was jewish.  I seem to recall this
was mentioned once while he was still at Oakland.
Also, I have my suspicions about Esther Canseco (nee Haddad).
--Gidi
From: sweda@css.itd.umich.edu (Sean Sweda)
Subject: Royals final run total...
Organization: University of Michigan - ITD Consulting and Support
Lines: 22
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
I've been saying this for quite some time, but being absent from the
net for a while I figured I'd stick my neck out a bit...
The Royals will set the record for fewest runs scored by an AL
team since the inception of the DH rule.  (p.s. any ideas what this is?)
They will fall easily short of 600 runs, that's for damn sure.  I can't
believe these media fools picking them to win the division (like our
Tom Gage of the Detroit News claiming Herk Robinson is some kind of
genius for the trades/aquisitions he's made)
c-ya
Sean
--
Sean Sweda                                      sweda@css.itd.umich.edu
CSS/ITD Consultant			   President, Bob Sura Fan Club
GM/Manager Motor City Marauders
Internet Baseball League				   "play ball!"
From: napoli@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Gaetano Napolitano)
Subject: ERA formula
Distribution: ca
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA
Lines: 17
Hello
as the subject tells all I am trying to find out what is the formula to
calculate the ERA for the pitchers.
If any of you baseball fans have it please e-mail me at
napoli@atc.olivetti.com
thank you very much
Gaetano Napolitano
From: kmelcher@rafael.Arco.COM (Kenneth Melcher)
Subject: Re: The 1964 Phillies: deja vu?
Reply-To: kmelcher@rafael.Arco.COM
Organization: ARCO Exploration and Production Technology
Lines: 3
My dad has always blamed the Phillies collapse in '64 on me...  On Sept 21,  1964,  the Phillies had something like a 9 game lead with 12 to play.  I was born on Sept 21,  1964.  The Phils proceeded to lose something like 10 straight while the Cards won 10 straight (does anyone know hte exact numbers?),  and a pennant was blown.  To this day my dad likes to remind me that it all began when I was born!
KRM
From: gspira@nyx.cs.du.edu (Greg Spira)
Subject: Re: Candlestick Park experience (long)
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Lines: 19
craige@sad.hp.com (Craig Eid) writes:
>These things should have been done a long time ago, but it took a real
>businessman (ex - Safeway President Peter Magowan) to figure it out. Just
>like he used to tell his checkers, "If the customers don't come back, I don't
>need as many checkers". This isn't a knock on Bob Lurie - he was a competent
>businessman but he didn't deal much with the general public.
Interesting article, Craig.  It's amazing how hard it is to get baseball
teams to understand how to properly market their teams and treat their
customers.  No other business could ever get away with the 19th century
attitudes that most current owners display in running their clubs.  I guess the
owners look at baseball's high growth rate and ask why it's necessary
to bring 20th century business practices into the game, but they don't
realize how much more growth the game is capable of and how much they
pay in terms of long-term popularity by not doing better by the game
and its fans.
Greg
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Subject: Re: Players Rushed to Majors
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Lines: 13
Reply-To: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
NNTP-Posting-Host: g215a-1.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
In article <93122@hydra.gatech.EDU> re4@prism.gatech.EDU (RUSSELL EARNEST)
writes:
> This brings back the long suffering memories of pre-chop Braves fans who
> kept being promised the Bob Horner - Dale Murphy back to back power slam.
> Who could stop that?  Guess we'll never know.
Why not? Horner played 130 games in 1985 and hit 27 HR.
Murphy played 162 and hit 37.
In 1986 Horner hit 27 in 141 games and Murphy hit 29 in 160 games.
(and the Braves lost 96 and 89 games).
john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
From: woods@ncar.ucar.edu (Greg Woods)
Subject: Re: Rockies spoon-feed game to Mets
Organization: Scientific Computing Division/NCAR Boulder, CO
Lines: 18
In article <4200416@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell) writes:
>Is it just me, or does Bichette look totally lost in the outfield?
He's been playing horrible defense. Baylor said after Wednesday's game that
he wanted to shake up the lineup a little, because Bichette has been
having a rough time defensively and Jerald Clark has not been hitting.
He was true to his word; I went to Thursday's game and Gerald Young
was in right and Daryl Boston (who has a very hot bat) was in left.
Baylor was careful to say though that he didn't necessarily mean for
these changes to be permanent but he wanted to give these other two
a shot while Clark and Bichette were not playing well.
In defense of Bichette, it looks like right field in Mile High Stadium
is a bitch to play. Some of the visiting outfielders have been having
some problems too (although Bobby Bonilla made a great catch crashing into
the wall to rob Daryl Boston of an extra base hit in Thursday's game)
--Greg
From: admiral@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Steve C Liu)
Subject: Re: Bring on the O's
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
Lines: 39
Distribution: world
Expires: 5/9/95
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
Summary: Root, root, root for the Orioles...
I heard that Eli is selling the team to a group in Cinninati. This would
help so that the O's could make some real free agent signings in the
offseason. Training Camp reports that everything is pretty positive right
now. The backup catcher postion will be a showdown between Tackett and Parent
although I would prefer Parent. #1 Draft Pick Jeff Hammonds may be coming
up faster in the O's hierarchy of the minors faster than expected. Mike
Flanagan is trying for another comeback. Big Ben is being defended by
coaches saying that while the homers given up were an awful lot, most came
in the beginning of the season and he really improved the second half. This
may be Ben's year.
I feel that while this may not be Mussina's Cy Young year, he will
be able to pitch the entire season without periods of fatigue like last year
around August. I really hope Baines can provide the RF support the O's need.
Orsulak was decent but I had hoped that Chito Martinez could learn defense
better and play like he did in '91. The O's right now don't have many
left-handed hitters. Anderson proving last year was no fluke and Cal's return
to his averages would be big plusses in a drive for the pennant. The
rotation should be Sutcliffe, Mussina, McDonald, Rhodes, ?????. Olson is an
interesting case. Will he strike out the side or load the bases and then get
three pop outs? You never know.
The way I see the AL East this year (with personal biases mixed in)
Baltimore
New York
Toronto
Milwaukee
Cleveland
Boston
Detroit
(The top 4 are the only true contenders in my mind. One of these 4 will
definitely win the division unless it snows in Hell/Maryland :). I feel
that this Baltimore's season to finally put everything together.)
__________________________________________________________________________
|Admiral Steve C. Liu        Internet Address: admiral@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu|
|"Committee for the Liberation and Intergration of Terrifying Organisms  |
|and their Rehabilitation Into Society" from Red Dwarf - "Polymorph"     |
|****The Bangles are the greatest female rock band that ever existed!****|
|   This sig has been brought to you by... Frungy! The Sport of Kings!   |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: admiral@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Steve C Liu)
Subject: Baseball Stats
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
Lines: 17
Distribution: usa
Expires: 5/5/93
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
Summary: 1992 EWB II Stats wanted
Hello, my friends and I are running the Homewood Fantasy Baseball
League (pure fantasy baseball teams). Unfortunely, we are running the league
using Earl Weaver Baseball II with the Comm. Disk II and we need the stats
for the 1992 season. (Preferably the 1992 Major League Stat Disk) We have
the '92 total stats but EWB2 needs the split stats otherwise we have 200
inning games because the Comm. Disk turns total stats into vs. L's stats
unless you know both right and left -handed stats.
So, if anyone has the EWB2 '92 Stat Disk please e-mail me!
__________________________________________________________________________
|Admiral Steve C. Liu        Internet Address: admiral@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu|
|"Committee for the Liberation and Intergration of Terrifying Organisms  |
|and their Rehabilitation Into Society" from Red Dwarf - "Polymorph"     |
|****The Bangles are the greatest female rock band that ever existed!****|
|   This sig has been brought to you by... Frungy! The Sport of Kings!   |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra)
Subject: Superstars and attendance (was Teemu Selanne, was +/- leaders)
Nntp-Posting-Host: stpl.ists.ca
Organization: Solar Terresterial Physics Laboratory, ISTS
Distribution: na
Lines: 115
Dean J. Falcione (posting from jrmst+8@pitt.edu) writes:
[I wrote:]
>>When the Pens got Mario, granted there was big publicity, etc, etc,
>>and interest was immediately generated.  Gretzky did the same thing for LA.
>>However, imnsho, neither team would have seen a marked improvement in
>>attendance if the team record did not improve.  In the year before Lemieux
>>came, Pittsburgh finished with 38 points.  Following his arrival, the Pens
>>finished with 53, 76, 72, 81, 87, 72, 88, and 87 points, with a couple of
^^
>>Stanley Cups thrown in.
>It was at this point the Pens attendance was near capacity (34 out of 40
>sellouts) yet they hadn't made the playoffs since 1982.  How do you explain
>a 6th place team breaking attendance records when they haven't been to the
>playoffs in 7 years?  Mario Lemieux is the explanation, IMHO.
>You could make a case that the *expectation* of an improving team that
>would make the playoffs is the reason.
Funny you should mention it...this is exactly the case I was going to make.
>But I think the reason is Lemieux
>had a 168 point season and was the first non-Gretzky to win the Hart and
>Ross since 1980.  People turned out to watch him play.
I will grant that a star like Mario will draw fans, even if the team sucks.
But this is short term only; I still do not think the attendance increase
will last, unless the team is a winning/competitive/improving/butt-kicking
one.  Pittsburgh was still getting better, so people continued to support
them.  If they suddenly dropped to, say, 50 points, you'd have knee surgery
for some of the people jumping off the bandwagon.
>Also, the following year (88-89) the Pens had 89 points not 87.
Ok.  My numbers came from the NHL Guide and Record Book.
>They made the transaction to try and build a winner around Mario, that is
>true.  But the improvement in attendance came before they started doing
>this (Coffey late in 1987) and before they even had a playoff bound team.
>A doubling of attendance occured in 1984-85 from the previous year.  An
>increase from 38 points to 53 points is not going to do that.  The arrival
>of Mario Lemieux is what did it.
You can give the credit to Mario since he deserves it.  But my point is that
it wasn't Mario himself, but it was the *expectation* of things to come (i.e.
a winning team) that he created by being the next great hockey superstar. And
before anybody jumps in and says I'm nit-picking and mincing words, go back
and read from where this thread started...
It might help to think about what would go through a fan's mind who suddenly
found an interest in Mario and the Pens.  Was it "gee, Mario Lemieux is
amazing, I'll go watch him play", or was it "gee, now we've got a *kick*
*ass* guy on *our* side, I'll go watch him play".  I think it was the latter.
> Similar thing happened in L.A.   Before
>Gretzky's arrival, about 12000 per game.  After, constant sellouts.  They
>are STILL selling out every game despite showing little or no improvement
>since Gretzky's first year there.  How do you explain it?  People are going
>to see Gretzky.  they certainly aren't going to see a winner, they haven't
>GOT a winner.  They've had MUCH better teams in their past history than
>they currently have, yet they didn't draw as well then.
I don't think this is accurate.  The *tickets* sell, but people don't go to
the games.  I think this thread has already been discussed...season ticket
holders in LA don't always use their tickets.  So in effect, after the Kings
initial success following Gretzky's arrival (68 to 91 points, same source)
and corresponding attendance jump, there has been an effective drop in
attendance even though ticket sales may not have changed much.
Whether or not the Kings are a 'winner' is debatable.  I claim that since
Gretzky's arrival they have at the very least been competitive...I also claim
that McNall has made a stupid move in trying to reassemble the Oiler
dynasty...but that's another story and included only because I don't like
McNall:-).  Anyway,  McNall did do some heavy marketing around Gretzky, and
that undoubtedly was also responsible for the attendance and merchandising
sales, etc.  But as I said, when the Kings have been in there little
tailspins over the past couple of years there have been empty seats at the
Forum even if the tickets were sold.
>I think in the case of a Lemieux or Gretzky, the player can transcend
>winning as the major drawing power.
For the short term, IMO.  Although I think that it's inevitable that the team
will improve with a player such as Lemieux or Gretzky, simply because they
make people around them better.
>But winning sure as hell helps.  ;-)
Well, at least we are in full agreement here!
>This does not make Roger's point any more valid, but the Jets aren't
So are you saying Roger has ever had a valid point? <couldn't resist...>
>getting a HUGE jump in productivity, yet they ARE getting a huge
>jump in attendance.  This is due to the emergence of Teemu Selanne.
>They have the 17th best record in hockey, it sure as hell isn't because
>they are winning.
Yes, but they are doing no worse than last year.  I think the same type of
reasoning I applied to a new Pittsburgh fan applies to all the extra people
showing up at Winnipeg games.  It's difficult to predict, but do you think
that if the Jets miss the playoffs next season that in the year after they
will maintain their attendance levels?  I seriously doubt it, because in that
case the expectation of an improving team would be gone, with or without
Selanne.
I did provide the example of Rocket Ismail and the Toronto Argonauts of the
CFL...did you leave it out because you don't know much about the CFL?  If
that's the case then fair enough, but if it isn't the case then I'm curious
to hear your explanation.
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra)
Subject: Re: NHL team leaders in +/-
Nntp-Posting-Host: stpl.ists.ca
Organization: Solar Terresterial Physics Laboratory, ISTS
Lines: 42
In article <1993Mar29.190650.28940@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>The Jets use the "breakaway pass" scheme to create a scoring sensation
>in order to generate interest.  If teams score as many or more goals
>against Winnipeg when Selanne is on the ice as Winnipeg scores when
>he is on the ice then I can't see how his contribution can be described
>as impressive.
Implicitly you are assuming that goals scored against Winnipeg with Selanne
on the ice can be blamed on him...Roger, he is a FORWARD.  Winnipeg has a
lousy defensive record anyway.  Let's put it another way.  John Cullen's +/-
is terrible.  What's your excuse for him?  That his powerplay points don't
count?  Neither do Selanne's...
>The object of the game is not to feed Selanne - it is
>to win.  And feeding Selanne does not contribute in any meaningful way
>to winning.
Knowledgeable hockey observers the world over would agree that
feeding Selanne so he can score does contribute in a meaningful way to
winning.
>Pat Burns wouldn't have a goal suck like this on his team.
You're worried about Teemu when you have Glenn Anderson on your team?
>We DON'T KNOW what Selanne does best.  We do know what Jet's management
>wants.  And again, the object of the exercise is not to allow Selanne to
>do what he does best, it is to win hockey games.
What he does best is score...so I refer you to my comment above.
>As it is now, Selanne
>is a grandstanding goal suck.  Did you see the way he parades around
>with his arms outstretched after scoring a goal?  You would think the
>Messiah had returned...
Nope, didn't see it.  I was too busy watching Foligno jump up and down after
_his_ goal....
From: jbarrett@aludra.usc.edu (Jonathan Barrett)
Subject: Re: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)...
Keywords: NHL, awards
Article-I.D.: aludra.1pqgq3INN2vn
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 15
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu
I can only comment on the Kings, but the most obvious candidate for pleasant
surprise is Alex Zhitnik. He came highly touted as a defensive defenseman, but
he's clearly much more than that. Great skater and hard shot (though wish he
were more accurate). In fact, he pretty much allowed the Kings to trade away
that huge defensive liability Paul Coffey. Kelly Hrudey is only the biggest
disappointment if you thought he was any good to begin with. But, at best, he's
only a mediocre goaltender. A better choice would be Tomas Sandstrom, though
not through any fault of his own, but because some thugs in Toronto decided
to threaten his career in order to avoid conceding a goal. Other than that, the
award goes to Robert Lang, an uninspiring Czech. Robitaille could easily be
MVP, but I'd prefer to give it to Rob Blake who is quietly becoming one of the
league's premier defensemen, and if the Kings manage to hold onto him and the
rest of our young defense, it could one day mean that we'll let in fewer
goals than Hartford. Honorable mentions to Majestic Marty and Warren Rychel.
Jon
From: assist@orion.oac.uci.edu (ASSIST Coordination Site)
Subject: Re: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)...
Keywords: NHL, awards
Article-I.D.: news.2BC0C6DF.18865
Distribution: world
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Lines: 20
Nntp-Posting-Host: orion.oac.uci.edu
In article <C4zCII.Ftn@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> smale@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (Bryan Smale) writes:
>                         MVP           Biggest       Biggest
>                                       Suprise       Disappointment
>Los Angeles Kings       Robitaille     Donnelly      Hrudey
I would have chosen Alex Zhitnik for biggest suprise.  They
did expect that he would become a great defenseman, but I don't
think anyone knew that he was going to be this impressive in his
rookie year.  His speed, skating ability, and puck control is
exceptional -- he is the one to watch on the Kings.
Kris
kris@fs2.assist.uci.edu
GO KINGS!
--
From: ching@coyote.WPI.EDU (Jay Heminger)
Subject: Re: NCAA finals...Winner????
Article-I.D.: bigboote.1pqgt9$r46
Distribution: world
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Lines: 9
NNTP-Posting-Host: coyote.wpi.edu
Originator: ching@coyote.WPI.EDU
Maine beat LSSU 5-4.
--
------------------------THE LOGISTICIAN REIGNS SUPREME!!!----------------------
|									      |
|   GO BLUE!!!   GO TIGERS!!!   GO PISTONS!!!   GO LIONS!!!   GO RED WINGS!!! |
-------------------------------ching@wpi.wpi.edu-------------------------------
From: ayim@leibniz.uwaterloo.ca (Alfred Yim)
Subject: And... THEY'RE OFF!!!!!
Keywords: Leafs Chicago
Organization: University of Waterloo
Lines: 39
Well, I gotta tell ya,
last night's Leafs game vs the Devils was a nail-bitter LET ME TELL YOU!
It was a well played game by BOTH teams (I thought) but according to the
Don and Ron it was the an "off-night" for the Leafs and the Devils
were outplaying Toronto. Well, I BEG to differ....
IMHO, Clark deserved to be a first star as much as Gilmour did. His
fast breaks towards the net and the good opportunites that he
created reminded me of the Clark of old. (But not to take any of the
credit away from Gilmour).
I think the Leafs are playing GREAT hockey. WHY?
Well first look at their injury list which includes, Cullen, Ellet,
Zezel, Macoun. Of course my question is this....how will the Leafs
fare when they are once again "healthy" if they are playing this well
so far??
Second, just look at their standings, still second in defence,
moved from 11th overall to 6th over in the last month, haven't lost
at home in last 12 games, 8 game undefeated streak..etc.
(BTW, am I wrong or was this Potvin's first shut-out? I can't
remember him having any as of yet.)
Well, as of April 3 we see that the race for first in the Norris
has truly begun and it will be a VERY CLOSE race between Chicago and
Toronto. And the best game of the season will probably be their last
against each other. (is anyone lucky enough to have tickets to
see this one?)
Coming to the stretch and still a ROAR'IN!!!!!
Go LEAFS Go!!!!
--
******************************************
*  Alfred (Yong-Jeh) Yim                 *   Toronto wins the
*  4B Mathematics (Actuarial Science)    *     (   ?    )    CUP.
*  University of Waterloo, Canada.       *  i like "coca-cola" idea personally
*  E-mail: ayim@descartes.waterloo.edu   *
*****************************************************************************
From: jake@rambler.Eng.Sun.COM (Jason Cockroft)
Subject: Re: "Give Blood" Tee Shirts
Article-I.D.: jethro.1pqkfp$d96
Reply-To: jake@rambler.Eng.Sun.COM
Distribution: world
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Lines: 11
NNTP-Posting-Host: rambler.eng.sun.com
>The shirts are believe or not from a Bob Probert line of clothes.
>The whole shirt says "Give Blood - Fight Probie".
Cool.  They sound like a cult classic.  Can someone post a address or
phone # of a store that sells these?
Thanks,
-jake.
Subject: NCAA finals...Winner????
From: ktgeiss@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"
Lines: 1
Lake State/Maine in finals...WHO WON?   Please post.
From: MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu
Subject: Re: Trade rumor: Montreal/Ottawa/Phillie
Article-I.D.: auvm.93095.210625MWEINTR
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Lines: 38
Also sprach slegge@kean.ucs.mun.ca ...
>TSN Sportsdesk just reported that the OTTAWA SUN has reported that
>Montreal will send 4 players + $15 million including Vin Damphousse
>and Brian Bellows to Phillidelphia, Phillie will send Eric Lindros
>to Ottawa, and Ottawa will give it's first round pick to Montreal.
>
>If this is true, it will most likely depend on whether or not Ottawa
>gets to choose 1st overall.  Can Ottawa afford Lindros' salary?
>
>Personally, I can't see Philli giving up Lindros -- for anything.
>They didn't give away that much to Quebec just to trade him away
>again.  Not to mention that Lindros seems to be a *huge* draw in
>Phillie -- and that he represents a successful future for the
>franchise.
>
>Ottawa may be better off taking the 4 players +$15 from Montreal
>for the pick.
>
>Stephen Legge
>SLEGGE@kean.ucs.munc.ca
Two things:
1. Didn't the trade deadline pass two weeks ago?
2. The FLYERS would never ever EVER give up Lindros, simple as that.
Go Flyers, Cup in '94...
Mike
---
***Yes-Rush-Marillion-ELP-Genesis-King Crimson-Dream Theater-Beatles***
* Mike Weintraub, aka Jvi on IRC              "Courageous convictions *
* mweintr@american.edu                         will drag the dream    *
* jedi@wave.cerf.net                           into existence"        *
* The American University, Washington DC        - Rush (NOT Limbaugh) *
***Go Philadelphia Flyers, Vancouver Canucks & Philadelphia Phillies***
From: galvint@cs.nps.navy.mil (thomas galvin)
Subject: Re: Re-Alignnment, Expansion
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey
Lines: 33
In article <C4zHJ1.7xB@idacom.hp.com> andrew@idacom.hp.com (Andrew Scott) writes:
>In article <1993Apr2.175946.7727@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> nixdorf@etre (Eric Nixdorf) writes:
>>
>>     Looking at the way the divisions were re-aligned, there are six teams each
>>in the Central (Norris) and Pacific (Smyth) divisions, while there are seven
>>teams each in the Northeast (Adams) and Atlantic (Patrick) divisions.  The
>>thought occurs to me that inherent in the realignment is expansion of one team
>>in the Central division and one team in the Pacific division, although I've
>>seen nothing published that indicates that.
>
>Actually, when the NHL expansion committee was formed a couple of years back
>(before the Ottawa and Tampa Bay expansion), John Zeigler stated at the time
>that it was the NHL's expansion plan to grow to 28 teams (7 per division) by
>the turn of the century.
>
>--
>Andrew Scott                    | andrew@idacom.hp.com
>HP IDACOM Telecom Division      | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253
>
>During the Roman Era, 28 was considered old...
Last night during a Sharks' broadcast, Commissioner Bettman was
interviewed during the first intermission.  He made no bones about it,
the expansion to 28 is on permanent hold until he is satisfied that
the current allotment of 26 are fully stable.  This means that cities
looking for a club in the foreseeable future will have to wait until
one team in some location fails or looks to relocate.
This is good, IMO.  There's no sense in expanding if it only means
more failing franchises are in the mold.
-Tom Galvin             galvint@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil
Subject: NHL Summary parse results for games played Sat, April 3, 1993
From: c5ff@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (COOK  Charlie)
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Lines: 373
Tampa Bay                        1 1 0--2
Philadelphia                     3 2 1--6
First period
1, Philadelphia, Carkner 3 (unassisted) 1:24.
2, Philadelphia, Hawgood 9 (Recchi, Lindros) pp, 5:56.
3, Philadelphia, Lindros 37 (Recchi, Hawgood) pp, 9:52.
4, Tampa Bay, Beers 12 (Zamuner, Chambers) pp, 15:06.
Second period
5, Tampa Bay, Andersson 13 (Hamrlik, Lafreniere) pp, 1:58.
6, Philadelphia, Conroy 3 (Butsayev, Faust) 12:10.
7, Philadelphia, Beranek 13 (Galley, Hawgood) pp, 18:53.
Third period
8, Philadelphia, Recchi 51 (Brind'Amour, Galley) pp, 17:56.
Philadelphia: 6    Power play: 5-4
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Beranek            1    0    1
Brind'Amour        0    1    1
Butsayev           0    1    1
Carkner            1    0    1
Conroy             1    0    1
Faust              0    1    1
Galley             0    2    2
Hawgood            1    2    3
Lindros            1    1    2
Recchi             1    2    3
Tampa Bay: 2    Power play: 7-2
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Andersson          1    0    1
Beers              1    0    1
Chambers           0    1    1
Hamrlik            0    1    1
Lafreniere         0    1    1
Zamuner            0    1    1
-----------------------------------------
Vancouver                        1 0 0--1
Detroit                          2 2 1--5
First period
1, Detroit, Kozlov 4 (Fedorov, Chiasson) 5:20.
2, Detroit, Drake 17 (Ciccarelli, Coffey) pp, 7:48.
3, Vancouver, Ronning 24 (Slegr, Bure) pp, 17:35.
Second period
4, Detroit, Sheppard 30 (Drake, Hiller) 6:54.
5, Detroit, Ciccarelli 38 (Chiasson, Drake) pp, 12:13.
Third period
6, Detroit, Ysebaert 31 (Fedorov, Cheveldae) sh, 4:59.
Detroit: 5    Power play: 5-2   Special goals:  pp: 2  sh: 1  Total: 3
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Cheveldae          0    1    1
Chiasson           0    2    2
Ciccarelli         1    1    2
Coffey             0    1    1
Drake              1    2    3
Fedorov            0    2    2
Hiller             0    1    1
Kozlov             1    0    1
Sheppard           1    0    1
Ysebaert           1    0    1
Vancouver: 1    Power play: 6-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Bure               0    1    1
Ronning            1    0    1
Slegr              0    1    1
-----------------------------------------
Buffalo                          1 1 0--2
Boston                           1 1 1--3
First period
1, Buffalo, Audette 12 (Corkum, Wood) 16:40.
2, Boston, Juneau 30 (Neely, Oates) 18:39.
Second period
3, Buffalo, Errey 9 (LaFontaine, Khmylev) 10:51.
4, Boston, Douris 3 (D.Sweeney, Bourque) 17:57.
Third period
5, Boston, Donato 12 (unassisted) 17:42.
Boston: 3    Power play: 4-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Bourque            0    1    1
Donato             1    0    1
Douris             1    0    1
Juneau             1    0    1
Neely              0    1    1
Oates              0    1    1
Sweeney D          0    1    1
Buffalo: 2    Power play: 5-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Audette            1    0    1
Corkum             0    1    1
Errey              1    0    1
Khmylev            0    1    1
LaFontaine         0    1    1
Wood               0    1    1
-----------------------------------------
Calgary                          1 1 0 1--3
San Jose                         0 2 0 0--2
First period
1, Calgary, Suter 21 (Reichel, MacInnis) pp, 17:47.
Second period
2, San Jose, Zmolek 5 (Odgers, Evason) 3:03.
3, San Jose, Kisio 24 (Garpenlov, Gaudreau) pp, 7:23.
4, Calgary, Lindberg 9 (MacInnis) pp, 12:43.
Third period
No scoring.
Overtime
5, Calgary, Fleury 31 (Otto, Yawney) 3:06.
Calgary: 3    Power play: 8-2
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Fleury             1    0    1
Lindberg           1    0    1
MacInnis           0    2    2
Otto               0    1    1
Reichel            0    1    1
Suter              1    0    1
Yawney             0    1    1
San Jose: 2    Power play: 9-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Evason             0    1    1
Garpenlov          0    1    1
Gaudreau           0    1    1
Kisio              1    0    1
Odgers             0    1    1
Zmolek             1    0    1
-----------------------------------------
Pittsburgh                       0 3 2--5
Quebec                           2 1 0--3
First period
1, Quebec, Kamensky 15 (Huffman) 6:05.
2, Quebec, Young 27 (Lapointe, Huffman) 16:52.
Second period
3, Pittsburgh, Mullen 29 (Lemieux, Murphy) 3:54.
4, Pittsburgh, Lemieux 60 (Tocchet, U.Samuelsson) 5:07.
5, Pittsburgh, Lemieux 61 (Tocchet, Stevens) 8:12.
6, Quebec, Young 28 (Sundin, Kovalenko) pp, 14:52.
Third period
7, Pittsburgh, Tippett 4 (unassisted) sh, 3:52.
8, Pittsburgh, Tippett 5 (McEachern, Mullen) 8:25.
Pittsburgh: 5    Power play: 1-0   Special goals:  sh: 1  Total: 1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Lemieux            2    1    3
McEachern          0    1    1
Mullen             1    1    2
Murphy             0    1    1
Samuelsson U       0    1    1
Stevens            0    1    1
Tippett            2    0    2
Tocchet            0    2    2
Quebec: 3    Power play: 4-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Huffman            0    2    2
Kamensky           1    0    1
Kovalenko          0    1    1
Lapointe           0    1    1
Sundin             0    1    1
Young              2    0    2
-----------------------------------------
New Jersey                       0 0 0--0
Toronto                          0 0 1--1
First period
No scoring.
Second period
No scoring.
Third period
1, Toronto, Gilmour 32 (Andreychuk, Anderson) 16:22.
Toronto: 1    Power play: 5-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Anderson           0    1    1
Andreychuk         0    1    1
Gilmour            1    0    1
New Jersey: 0    Power play: 3-0
No scoring
-----------------------------------------
Ottawa                           1 0 2--3
Hartford                         5 1 1--7
First period
1, Ottawa, Maciver 17 (Baker, Luongo) 4:22.
2, Hartford, Kron 11 (Nylander, Gosselin) 5:13.
3, Hartford, Burt 4 (Cassels, Verbeek) 7:59.
4, Hartford, Cunneyworth 4 (Yake, Nylander) 9:59.
5, Hartford, Sanderson 42 (Cassels, Houda) 11:11.
6, Hartford, Verbeek 35 (Cassels, Zalapski) pp, 15:50.
Second period
7, Hartford, Sanderson 43 (Cassels, Zalapski) pp, 18:38.
Third period
8, Hartford, Kron 12 (Poulin, Burt) 4:57.
9, Ottawa, Turgeon 23 (Lamb) 8:57.
10, Ottawa, Baker 17 (Luongo, Maciver) pp, 16:17.
Hartford: 7    Power play: 3-2
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Burt               1    1    2
Cassels            0    4    4
Cunneyworth        1    0    1
Gosselin           0    1    1
Houda              0    1    1
Kron               2    0    2
Nylander           0    2    2
Poulin             0    1    1
Sanderson          2    0    2
Verbeek            1    1    2
Yake               0    1    1
Zalapski           0    2    2
Ottawa: 3    Power play: 7-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Baker              1    1    2
Lamb               0    1    1
Luongo             0    2    2
Maciver            1    1    2
Turgeon            1    0    1
-----------------------------------------
Winnipeg                         1 3 2--6
Edmonton                         1 0 3--4
First period
1, Winnipeg, Tkachuk 27 (Housley, Zhamnov) pp, 14:38.
2, Edmonton, Klima 31 (Ciger, Elik) 16:05.
Second period
3, Winnipeg, King 8 (unassisted) 3:54.
4, Winnipeg, Zhamnov 21 (Selanne) 10:25.
5, Winnipeg, Domi 5 (Selanne, Housley) 18:44.
Third period
6, Edmonton, Manson 15 (unassisted) 10:58.
7, Winnipeg, Eagles 8 (Numminen, Bautin) pp, 14:13.
8, Winnipeg, Zhamnov 22 (Ulanov, Selanne) 15:27.
9, Edmonton, Gelinas 8 (Kravchuk, Ranford) 16:48.
10, Edmonton, Kravchuk 10 (Buchberger) 18:42.
Winnipeg: 6    Power play: 5-2
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Bautin             0    1    1
Domi               1    0    1
Eagles             1    0    1
Housley            0    2    2
King               1    0    1
Numminen           0    1    1
Selanne            0    3    3
Tkachuk            1    0    1
Ulanov             0    1    1
Zhamnov            2    1    3
Edmonton: 4    Power play: 3-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Buchberger         0    1    1
Ciger              0    1    1
Elik               0    1    1
Gelinas            1    0    1
Klima              1    0    1
Kravchuk           1    1    2
Manson             1    0    1
Ranford            0    1    1
-----------------------------------------
Chicago                          0 3 0 0--3
St. Louis                        1 2 0 0--3
First period
1, St. Louis, Shanahan 46 (Janney, Hull) pp, 4:09.
Second period
2, Chicago, Murphy 4 (Chelios, Roenick) pp, 0:50.
3, St. Louis, Shanahan 47 (Hedican, Janney) 1:18.
4, Chicago, Noonan 16 (Murphy, Chelios) pp, 5:24.
5, St. Louis, Bozon 6, ps, 12:13.
6, Chicago, Roenick 43 (Sutter, Murphy) pp, 18:39.
Third period
No scoring.
Overtime
No scoring.
St. Louis: 3    Power play: 4-1   Special goals:  pp: 1  ps: 1  Total: 2
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Bozon              1    0    1
Chelios            0    1    1
Hedican            0    1    1
Hull               0    1    1
Janney             0    2    2
Murphy             0    1    1
Shanahan           2    0    2
Chicago: 3    Power play: 3-3
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Chelios            0    2    2
Murphy             1    2    3
Noonan             1    0    1
Roenick            1    1    2
Sutter             0    1    1
-----------------------------------------
Montreal                         0 1 2--3
NY Islanders                     0 2 0--2
First period
No scoring.
Second period
1, Montreal, Brunet 10 (Carbonneau, Daigneault) 4:39.
2, NY Islanders, Turgeon 51 (Thomas, Kurvers) pp, 9:14.
3, NY Islanders, Mullen 16 (unassisted) 15:13.
Third period
4, Montreal, Bellows 38 (Desjardins, Dipietro) 3:01.
5, Montreal, Damphousse 38 (Desjardins, Bellows) pp, 10:11.
Montreal: 3    Power play: 5-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Bellows            1    1    2
Brunet             1    0    1
Carbonneau         0    1    1
Daigneault         0    1    1
Damphousse         1    0    1
Desjardins         0    2    2
Dipietro           0    1    1
NY Islanders: 2    Power play: 5-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Kurvers            0    1    1
Mullen             1    0    1
Thomas             0    1    1
Turgeon            1    0    1
-----------------------------------------
Minnesota                        2 1 0--3
Los Angeles                      0 0 0--0
First period
1, Minnesota, Dahlen 33 (unassisted) 2:34.
2, Minnesota, Courtnall 33 (Dahlen, Modano) pp, 9:30.
Second period
3, Minnesota, McPhee 14 (Sjodin, Hatcher) pp, 7:24.
Third period
No scoring.
Minnesota: 3    Power play: 11-2
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Courtnall          1    0    1
Dahlen             1    1    2
Hatcher            0    1    1
McPhee             1    0    1
Modano             0    1    1
Sjodin             0    1    1
Los Angeles: 0    Power play: 5-0
No scoring
Subject: NHL Summary parse results for games played Sun, April 4, 1993
From: c5ff@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (COOK  Charlie)
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Lines: 210
NY Rangers                       3 1 0--4
Washington                       0 0 0--0
First period
1, NY Rangers, Graves 33 (Turcotte, Lowe) 9:13.
2, NY Rangers, Gartner 44 (Messier) 11:21.
3, NY Rangers, Olczyk 21 (Messier, Amonte) 14:57.
Second period
4, NY Rangers, Beukeboom 2 (unassisted) 3:30.
Third period
No scoring.
NY Rangers: 4    Power play: 4-0
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Amonte             0    1    1
Beukeboom          1    0    1
Gartner            1    0    1
Graves             1    0    1
Lowe               0    1    1
Messier            0    2    2
Olczyk             1    0    1
Turcotte           0    1    1
Washington: 0    Power play: 3-0
No scoring
-----------------------------------------
Boston                           0 2 1--3
Buffalo                          0 0 0--0
First period
No scoring.
Second period
1, Boston, Leach 24 (Wesley, Oates) pp, 1:03.
2, Boston, Oates 44 (Douris, Poulin) 9:00.
Third period
3, Boston, Douris 4 (Bourque) sh, 0:55.
Boston: 3    Power play: 5-1   Special goals:  pp: 1  sh: 1  Total: 2
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Bourque            0    1    1
Douris             1    1    2
Leach              1    0    1
Oates              1    1    2
Poulin             0    1    1
Wesley             0    1    1
Buffalo: 0    Power play: 6-0
No scoring
-----------------------------------------
Pittsburgh                       1 3 1--5
New Jersey                       0 1 1--2
First period
1, Pittsburgh, Francis 23 (Lemieux, Tocchet) pp, 13:25.
Second period
2, Pittsburgh, Murphy 21 (Francis, Mullen) sh, 0:38.
3, Pittsburgh, Francis 24 (Tocchet, Lemieux) pp, 7:14.
4, Pittsburgh, Jagr 33 (Tocchet, Francis) pp, 15:22.
5, New Jersey, Zelepukin 17 (Driver, Lemieux) pp, 19:07.
Third period
6, New Jersey, MacLean 23 (Nicholls, Stevens) 6:45.
7, Pittsburgh, Lemieux 62 (Jagr) en, 19:51.
Pittsburgh: 5    Power play: 9-3   Special goals:  pp: 3  sh: 1  en: 1  Total: 5
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Francis            2    2    4
Jagr               1    1    2
Lemieux            1    2    3
Mullen             0    1    1
Murphy             1    0    1
Tocchet            0    3    3
New Jersey: 2    Power play: 9-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Driver             0    1    1
Lemieux            0    1    1
MacLean            1    0    1
Nicholls           0    1    1
Stevens            0    1    1
Zelepukin          1    0    1
-----------------------------------------
Toronto                          0 0 0--0
Philadelphia                     2 1 1--4
First period
1, Philadelphia, Dineen 31 (Beranek, Hawgood) 8:10.
2, Philadelphia, McGill 3 (Lindros, Recchi) 19:55.
Second period
3, Philadelphia, Lindros 38 (Recchi, Galley) 7:55.
Third period
4, Philadelphia, Dineen 32 (Hawgood, Galley) pp, 18:39.
Philadelphia: 4    Power play: 4-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Beranek            0    1    1
Dineen             2    0    2
Galley             0    2    2
Hawgood            0    2    2
Lindros            1    1    2
McGill             1    0    1
Recchi             0    2    2
Toronto: 0    Power play: 6-0
No scoring
-----------------------------------------
Vancouver                        0 2 1--3
Ottawa                           0 0 0--0
First period
No scoring.
Second period
1, Vancouver, Plavsic 6 (Craven) 13:05.
2, Vancouver, Momesso 17 (Nedved, Plavsic) pp, 15:52.
Third period
3, Vancouver, Bure 57 (unassisted) 13:27.
Vancouver: 3    Power play: 4-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Bure               1    0    1
Craven             0    1    1
Momesso            1    0    1
Nedved             0    1    1
Plavsic            1    1    2
Ottawa: 0    Power play: 5-0
No scoring
-----------------------------------------
St. Louis                        2 0 2--4
Chicago                          4 0 1--5
First period
1, Chicago, Sutter 18 (Murphy, Chelios) pp, 1:08.
2, St. Louis, Janney 20 (Shanahan, J.Brown) pp, 6:49.
3, Chicago, Roenick 44 (Chelios, Smith) pp, 8:20.
4, Chicago, Roenick 45 (Sutter, Chelios) pp, 13:14.
5, Chicago, Graham 19 (Gilbert, Ruuttu) 13:42.
6, St. Louis, Janney 21 (Shanahan, Crossman) 19:38.
Second period
No scoring.
Third period
7, Chicago, Murphy 5 (Chelios, Belfour) 0:20.
8, St. Louis, Miller 21 (Hull, Janney) pp, 7:04.
9, St. Louis, Janney 22 (Miller, Shanahan) 19:32.
Chicago: 5    Power play: 8-3
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Belfour            0    1    1
Chelios            0    4    4
Gilbert            0    1    1
Graham             1    0    1
Murphy             1    1    2
Roenick            2    0    2
Ruuttu             0    1    1
Smith              0    1    1
Sutter             1    1    2
St. Louis: 4    Power play: 4-2
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Brown J            0    1    1
Crossman           0    1    1
Hull               0    1    1
Janney             3    1    4
Miller             1    1    2
Shanahan           0    3    3
-----------------------------------------
Calgary                          1 2 1--4
San Jose                         1 0 2--3
First period
1, Calgary, Otto 19 (Yawney, Ashton) pp, 5:29.
2, San Jose, Odgers 10 (Pederson, Wilkinson) 18:33.
Second period
3, Calgary, Nieuwendyk 34 (Johansson, Reese) 2:03.
4, Calgary, Reichel 35 (Skrudland, Berube) 12:22.
Third period
5, Calgary, Ashton 7 (Otto, Fleury) 1:30.
6, San Jose, Pederson 9 (Odgers, Evason) 2:24.
7, San Jose, Odgers 11 (Gaudreau, Evason) pp, 19:30.
Calgary: 4    Power play: 5-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Ashton             1    1    2
Berube             0    1    1
Fleury             0    1    1
Johansson          0    1    1
Nieuwendyk         1    0    1
Otto               1    1    2
Reese              0    1    1
Reichel            1    0    1
Skrudland          0    1    1
Yawney             0    1    1
San Jose: 3    Power play: 5-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Evason             0    2    2
Gaudreau           0    1    1
Odgers             2    1    3
Pederson           1    1    2
Wilkinson          0    1    1
-----------------------------------------
From: "Justin R. Fortun" <jf4f+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Playoff Predictions
Organization: Freshman, IM - MCS/CIT Track, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 26
NNTP-Posting-Host: po4.andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <1993Apr04.223559.7129@rose.com>
>B(--> Stanley Cup Champion: Vancouver Canucks
>
>Sorry, Pittsburgh in a walk.
>
>- Jack
First of all, the Penguins WILL win the cup again.  Who is going to stop them?
Definitely not the Canucks!
My predictions:
Patrick Division winner:  Pittsburgh
Adams Division winner:  Quebec or Montreal
Norris Division winner:  Detroit
Smythe Division winner:  Winnipeg
Wales conference champ:  Pittsburgh
Campbell Conference champ:  Detroit
Stanley Cup Champions(again):  Pittsburgh
Canucks suck.  They'll lose in the first round, compliments of Winnipeg
and Teemu Selanne.
The Pens are almost unstoppable with Mario Lemieux.
From: U16028@uicvm.uic.edu
Subject: Re: Coloured puck (was: CHANGES NOT NOTED YET!)
Article-I.D.: uicvm.93095.203829U16028
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago, academic Computer Center
Lines: 15
In article <1993Apr5.171006.22196@bnr.ca>, dwarf@bcarh601.bnr.ca (W. Jim Jordan)
says:
>The precedent was set by the WHA in their first season.  They used a red
>puck for exhibition games and a blue one for the regular season.
>Thankfully, they abandoned it in favour of black before the next season
>began.
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
One reason that the WHA abandoned the blue puck was the fact that it
crumbled very quickly during play.  The blue dye that was used somehow
affected the vulcanized rubber of the puck, decreasing its cohesiveness.
Terry
U16028@uicvm.uic.edu
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
From: MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF)
Subject: Re: WC Pool B : GB win the gold
In-Reply-To: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca's message of Mon, 5 Apr 1993 13:03:17 GMT
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24
Lines: 30
In <1993Apr5.130317.8175@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca writes:
> In article <1porp4$1c0@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk> nmcglynn@axion.bt.co.uk writes:
> >
> >GB has now risen from nowhere to Pool A in 5 seasons. They pulled out of the
> >World Championships in 1981, and did not re-enter until 1989 when we took part
> >in Pool D. In 1990, we hosted Pool D and won all our game to progress to
> >Pool C. In 1991 GB finished 5th in Pool C, and then last year we hosted
> >Pool C, again winning all our games. Now after Pool B, GB won all 7 games
> >and in now in Pool A. World Champions next year perhaps :-)
> >
>
> Just goes to show you what using Canadians can do for a hockey team...
> France, Italy, and now Great Britain all use a significant number of
> Canadians on "their" hockey teams.
Yup. Then again, there are lots of foreign-born players on the Canadian
national soccer team so the Brits give something back to you in the end:-)
---
For the record, former NY Rangers coach Ted "Darth" Sator recently led
Lion Milan (Jari Kurri's former team, only the nickname's changed
[Devils->Lion]) to their second straight Italian championship. They made the
European Final Four last autumn after losing to Swedish champs Malmo in the
semis...and accomplished this feat using FIFTEEN Canadian-born players!! Mamma
mia!
MARCU$
> Gerald
>
From: gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak)
Subject: Re: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)...
Keywords: NHL, awards
Article-I.D.: hydra.91528
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 19
In article <C51CJB.L5z@ccu.umanitoba.ca> umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Daryl Turner) writes:
>They were, and even if Washington might consider Patty a bust, I'd rework
>that trade in a minute.  Druce has been a complete and utter bust here,
>only 5 goals.
Well, Druce pretty much sucked when he was with the Caps. He had one
good **playoffs** (not season). oh well. The Caps are notorious for making
stupid trades anyway, as can be seen with the Cicarelli and Hrivnak trades.
Sigh.
In another note... I'd have to say the Caps biggest surprise was
Cote, as many Caps fans had been expecting a lot from Bondra already.
--
GO SKINS!    ||"Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite
GO BRAVES!   ||   an effect on you?" - Mike Patton, Faith No More
GO HORNETS!  ||
GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu
Subject: canadian silver dollar-stanley cup centennial
From: hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu (Valerie S. Hammerl)
Organization: UB
Nntp-Posting-Host: lictor.acsu.buffalo.edu
Lines: 19
Hi.  According to my always questionable newspaper, there's a silver
dollar being minted in Canada, the back of which commemorates the
anniversary of the Stanley Cup.  Now, I know full well what coins are
used every day in Canada.  I can easily fish a few out of my pocket
change right now, in fact.  My question is, since the loon is the only
dollar coin that I know is legal tender, is this just a commemorative
coin with no monetary exchange value, or what?  Is it the sort of
thing that only hockey buffs and coin collectors might covet, with no
chance of it being circulated?  If it is an uncirculated coin, what's
the current cost and what's its potential value?  Just curious.  If no
one knows, I'll take this to soc.culture.canada and rec.collecting (or
whatever it is).  Thanks again
--
Valerie Hammerl			"Some days I have to remind him he's not
hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu	Mario Lemieux."  Herb Brooks on Claude
acscvjh@ubms.cc.buffalo.edu	Lemieux, top scorer for the Devils, but
v085pwwpz@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu  known for taking dumb penalties.
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Superstars and attendance (was Teemu Selanne, was +/- leaders)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Distribution: na
Lines: 62
In <1993Apr5.182124.17415@ists.ists.ca> dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra) writes:
>Dean J. Falcione (posting from jrmst+8@pitt.edu) writes:
>>But I think the reason is Lemieux
>>had a 168 point season and was the first non-Gretzky to win the Hart and
>>Ross since 1980.  People turned out to watch him play.
>I will grant that a star like Mario will draw fans, even if the team sucks.
>But this is short term only; I still do not think the attendance increase
>will last, unless the team is a winning/competitive/improving/butt-kicking
>one.  Pittsburgh was still getting better, so people continued to support
>them.  If they suddenly dropped to, say, 50 points, you'd have knee surgery
>for some of the people jumping off the bandwagon.
I disagree.  McNall has demonstrated with Gretzky that a star brings out the
crowds whether or not the team is expected to do well.  Very few fans real-
istically expect the Kings to do well this year (although I do) and yet they
still go out to see Gretzky.  This is the marketing strategy - selling the
game by selling the stars - that is employed by Baseball and, notably, the
NBA and this is the attitude that the new Bettman/McNall leadership is
bringing to the league.  They have gone on record as stating that they are
trying to sell the game on its stars.  Timo Salami and Brett Hull are perfect
examples of players that real fans know aren't worth a damn and yet, being
benificiaries of marketing-oriented coaching strategies, have goal totals
that would indicate to the casual observer, the very fans the NHL wants to
attract, that these players are indeed superstars.
>>They made the transaction to try and build a winner around Mario, that is
>>true.  But the improvement in attendance came before they started doing
>>this (Coffey late in 1987) and before they even had a playoff bound team.
>>A doubling of attendance occured in 1984-85 from the previous year.  An
>>increase from 38 points to 53 points is not going to do that.  The arrival
>>of Mario Lemieux is what did it.
>It might help to think about what would go through a fan's mind who suddenly
>found an interest in Mario and the Pens.  Was it "gee, Mario Lemieux is
>amazing, I'll go watch him play", or was it "gee, now we've got a *kick*
>*ass* guy on *our* side, I'll go watch him play".  I think it was the latter.
It ain't nearly so simple as this.  The casual fan doesn't think about much
at all.  Can you actually find an adult with a 3 digit IQ who believes that
McDonalds makes good hamburgers?
>I did provide the example of Rocket Ismail and the Toronto Argonauts of the
>CFL...did you leave it out because you don't know much about the CFL?  If
>that's the case then fair enough, but if it isn't the case then I'm curious
>to hear your explanation.
Yes but apparently the Rocket has not lived up to his marketing responsi-
bilities has he?  He was hyped, initially, as a superstar, but outside of
one Grey Cup game he has done very little to maintain/enhance that assess-
ment of his talents.  Most Argo fans probably feel the team would be better
off without him.
cordially, as always,
rm
--
Roger Maynard
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: r_turgeo@oz.plymouth.edu (Randy S. Turgeon)
Subject: Re: Ottawa/Montreal/Philly trade
Article-I.D.: oz.1993Apr6.023843.9689
Reply-To: r_turgeo@oz.plymouth.edu (Randy S. Turgeon)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Lines: 13
Here we go again. Is this the same idiot who posted the Gretzky
trade to Toronto????   Sheeeesh!  You should have waited until we got
over that one before this garbage, maybe we would have believed it for
half a second (NOT!).
By the way, I just heard from Mother Goose that Mario Lemieux was
traded to Winnpeg for Tie Domi!!!!!
Randy
PSC (I know noone has heard of it, it's a tiny college in Hicksville
New Hampshire. Plymouth State College)
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: NHL team leaders in +/-
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Lines: 66
In <1993Apr5.185633.17843@ists.ists.ca> dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra) writes:
>Implicitly you are assuming that goals scored against Winnipeg with Selanne
>on the ice can be blamed on him...Roger, he is a FORWARD.  Winnipeg has a
>lousy defensive record anyway.  Let's put it another way.  John Cullen's +/-
>is terrible.  What's your excuse for him?  That his powerplay points don't
>count?  Neither do Selanne's...
Are you comparing Cullen to Salami?  I would say that that is valid.  If
Winnipeg is such a lousy defensive team then why the hell does Salami
stand around the other team's blueline when the puck is in his own end?
>>The object of the game is not to feed Selanne - it is
>>to win.  And feeding Selanne does not contribute in any meaningful way
>>to winning.
>Knowledgeable hockey observers the world over would agree that
>feeding Selanne so he can score does contribute in a meaningful way to
>winning.
Excuse me?  Are the Jets playing .500 hockey?  Let me check...yes - but just
barely.  They have allowed more goals than they have scored.  Sounds an
awful lot like Salami's +/- to me.  Sounds like they would be just as well
off - or better - if he played the solid two-way game that our friends in
Finland claim he is capable of.  But if he did that he wouldn't be chal-
lenging for the league lead in goals would he?  The Bi-Planes might be
challenging for first however...
>You're worried about Teemu when you have Glenn Anderson on your team?
Now let's see...you have compared Timo to Anderson and Cullen.  Who's
next?  Mike Foligno?
>>We DON'T KNOW what Selanne does best.  We do know what Jet's management
>>wants.  And again, the object of the exercise is not to allow Selanne to
>>do what he does best, it is to win hockey games.
>What he does best is score...so I refer you to my comment above.
Some of our Finnish friends who have watched him play claim that he
can play a solid two-way game.  I would have to say that this style
of contribution would be more conducive to winning.  Or don't you
think so?
>>As it is now, Selanne
>>is a grandstanding goal suck.  Did you see the way he parades around
>>with his arms outstretched after scoring a goal?  You would think the
>>Messiah had returned...
>Nope, didn't see it.  I was too busy watching Foligno jump up and down after
>_his_ goal....
I don't believe it!  You did compare him to Foligno!  (And I honestly hadn't
read this far).
It would help if you used a little discrimination in your thinking.  Your
contributions would be more highly valued if we could see that you weren't
trying to be merely argumentative.
cordially, as always,
rm
--
Roger Maynard
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra)
Subject: Re: In memoriam: Dan Kelly and Danny Gallivan
Nntp-Posting-Host: stpl.ists.ca
Organization: Solar Terresterial Physics Laboratory, ISTS
Distribution: na
Lines: 27
In article <burke.1-290393150052@burkemac.oshag.nd.edu> burke.1@nd.edu (R. P. Burke) writes:
>When talking about hockey broadcasters, let's give a moment of silence to
>remember the St. Louis Blues' great, Dan Kelly. (Many of you may have heard
>him in the late 60s and early 70s on CBS.) He used to do Hockey Night In
>Canada intermissions, with another recently deceased great, Danny Gallivan
>of the Canadiens.
Agreed here...I'll never forget Dan Kelly calling the play-by-play in the '87
Canada Cup.  He was masterful!
And Danny Gallivan will _never_ be replaced; even now when I watch HNIC I
remember his voice...when I see an Al MacInnis or Al Iafrate (hey, what's with
these guys named Al who can shoot??) shot from the point I still think
"blistering blast"...THN had a tribute to Gallivan in the issue following his
death; in the story they included a quote from one of the games he did.  It
went:
"It appears Risebrough has pugnaciously construed that check," he said, "and
will undoubtedly make a visitation to the box of punition."
Classic, vintage Gallivan!  He's sorely missed.  So here's to two of the best
there was and best that ever will be.
dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca
From: smale@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (Bryan Smale)
Subject: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)...
Keywords: NHL, awards
Organization: University of Waterloo
Lines: 55
I was thinking about who on each of the teams were the MVPs, biggest
surprises, and biggest disappointments this year. Now, these are just
my observations and are admittedly lacking because I have not had an
opportunity to see all the teams the same amount. Anyway....
MVP = most valuable player to his team both in terms of points and
in terms of leadership ("can't win without him")
Biggest surprise = the player who rose above expectation -- the player
that may have raised the level of his game to a new height, even
if that new level doesn't necessarily warrant an allstar berth
(includes those players who at the outset of the season, may not
even have been in the team's plans).
Biggest disappointment = the player from whom we expected more (e.g., I
picked Denis Savard in Montreal because with the new emphasis on
offence brought by Demers, shouldn't Savard have done better?)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Team           Biggest       Biggest
Team:                   MVP:          Surprise:    Disappointment:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Boston Bruins           Oates          D.Sweeney     Wesley
Buffalo Sabres          Lafontaine     Mogilny       Audette (jinx?)
Calgary Flames          Roberts        Reichel       Petit
Chicago Blackhawks      Roenick        Ruuttu        Goulet
Detroit Red Wings       Yzerman        Chaisson      Kozlov
Edmonton Oilers         Manson         Buchberger    Mellanby
Hartford Whalers        Sanderson      Cassells      Corriveau
Los Angeles Kings       Robitaille     Donnelly      Hrudey
Minnesota North Stars   Modano      Tinordi(not expected back)  Broten
Montreal Canadiens      Muller         Lebeau        Savard
New Jersey Devils       Stevens        Semak         MacLean
New York Islanders      Turgeon        King(finally) Marois
New York Rangers        Messier        Kovalev       Bourque
Ottawa Senators         MacIver        Baker         Jelinek
Philadelphia Flyers     Lindros/Recchi Fedyk/Galley  Eklund
Pittsburgh Penguins     Lemieux        Tocchet(even for him)  Jagr
Quebec Nordiques        Sakic/Ricci    Kovalenko     Pearson
San Jose Sharks         Kisio          Gaudreau      Maley
St Louis Blues          Shanahan       C.Joseph      Ron Sutter
Tampa Bay Lightening    Bradley        Bradley       Creighton/Kasper
Toronto Maple Leafs     Gilmour        Potvin        Ellett/Anderson
Vancouver Canucks       Bure           Nedved(finally)    Momesso
Washington Capitals     Hatcher        Bondra/Cote   Elynuik
Winnipeg Jets           Selanne        Selanne       Druce
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I mentioned up top, these are my *impressions* from where I sit. I
would welcome any opinions from those fans nearer their teams (in other
words, *anywhere* away from a Toronto newspaper!)
Bryan
From: dscy@eng.cam.ac.uk (D.S.C. Yap)
Subject: Re: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)...
Keywords: NHL, awards
Organization: cam.eng
Lines: 12
Nntp-Posting-Host: club.eng.cam.ac.uk
smale@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (Bryan Smale) writes:
>                        Team           Biggest       Biggest
>Team:                   MVP:          Surprise:    Disappointment:
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Washington Capitals     Hatcher        Bondra/Cote   Elynuik
>Winnipeg Jets           Selanne        Selanne       Druce
^^^^^^^^
weren't these two
traded for each
other?  Poetic justice.
From: SHOE@PHYSICS.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Mark Shoesmith)
Subject: Re: Let's talk sticks...
Lines: 35
Organization: University of Waterloo
In article <C50pt4.6CM@odin.corp.sgi.com> dptom@endor.corp.sgi.com (Tom Arnold) writes:
>Okay you hockey playing fans/finatics out there. I'm looking over the wide
>range of aluminum sticks for the first time. I've been playing with pieces
>of lumbar that seem to weigh alot and break after a few uses, so I'm
>thinking of changing to an aluminum shaft so when I break the blade all I
>have to do is change it. The problem is that there is such a wide reange of
>models and selections out there that I'm not certain which to consider. Can
>any of you post some of your suggestions and experiences with the aluminum
>sticks? What is the difference between models? What do you like/dislike about
>them? And, which brands are best?
>
>
I've had, and still have a few aluminum sticks.  I got my first when I was 15
(a Christian), and broke the shaft halfway through the season, two years
later.  I bought another (a Canadian) at the beginning of the next season,
and I still have it.  I also have an Easton, that a friend was getting rid
off, after giving up the game.  I find that Easton blades are easier to get,
but all brands of blades are pretty well interchangeable.  Watch out for
dried up bits of firewood, that some stores pass off as blades.  In my
experiences, the blades of an aluminum break more often than regular sticks,
but I've only ever broken one aluminum shaft.
I like aluminum sticks.  The blades are quickly changed, even on the bench
if you have to.  On the downside, the shaft won't break if you decide to
impale yourself on it :-)
Ciao,
Mark S.
"This is between me and the vegetable"   - Rick Moranis in
Little Shop of Horrors
Mark Shoesmith
shoe@physics.watstar.uwaterloo.ca
From: andrew@idacom.hp.com (Andrew Scott)
Subject: Re: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)...
Organization: IDACOM, A division of Hewlett-Packard
Keywords: NHL, awards
Lines: 35
In article <C4zCII.Ftn@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> smale@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (Bryan Smale) writes:
>
>I was thinking about who on each of the teams were the MVPs, biggest
>surprises, and biggest disappointments this year. Now, these are just
>my observations and are admittedly lacking because I have not had an
>opportunity to see all the teams the same amount. Anyway....
>
>Team:                   MVP:          Surprise:    Disappointment:
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Edmonton Oilers         Manson         Buchberger    Mellanby
Well, since the Oilers didn't win a heck of a lot of games, I'm not sure
they deserve and MVP ("can't win without him").  However, I'd suggest Kelly
Buchberger instead of Dave Manson, who has had a brutal year, his pick for
the All-Star game notwithstanding.
As for biggest surprise, I'd say that Buchberger had higher expectations
this year due to his "breakthrough" year (for him) last year, so he didn't
really raise his game.  My suggestion would be Shjon Podein, one of the
callups from Cape Breton during the year.  He was quite far down on the
depth chart in the Oilers stable of prospects, but made a big impact on
the team.  He has 12 goals in his 33 games and is only -1.  Those are decent
numbers for a third-line player who was seemingly doomed to minor-league
oblivion.  The Oilers coaching staff likens his style to John Tonelli.
I think he'll be on the full-time roster next year.
As for biggest disappointment, you could name any of the players the Oilers
dumped for lousy production this year (Nicholls, Gilchrist, Tikkanen) or
even Shayne Corson, but Mellanby isn't far off.
--
Andrew Scott                    | andrew@idacom.hp.com
HP IDACOM Telecom Division      | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253
During the Roman Era, 28 was considered old...
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra)
Subject: Re:  Potvin's new goalie mask
Nntp-Posting-Host: stpl.ists.ca
Organization: Solar Terresterial Physics Laboratory, ISTS
Distribution: na
Lines: 38
Stephen Legge (SLEGGE@kean.ucs.munc.ca) writes:
>I was wtahcing RIGHT GUARD HOCKEY WEEK on TSN yesterday and they had
>a feature on this guy that does a lot (most?) of the masks for NHL
>goalies.  They talked about how they are made, what they are made of,
>and the designs that are put on them, etc.
Actually, this part was really interesting.  It turns out that the mask is
custom-fit to the goalie's face.  The goalie puts his/her face through a
piece of wood (or was it plastic?) with a hole in it that allows only the face
and forehead to show.  Hair is covered by a cap, eyes are covered by a plastic
wrap-type material, and vaseline is put on the goaltender's face.  Then, a
plaster is spread on their cheeks, forehead, and chin which takes about 12
minutes to dry sufficiently.  When it dries, it is effectively a mold of the
goalie's face.  This is used as the basis of the mask (the rest involves
padding the inside, hardening the exterior, fitting the cage, etc. etc.
John Blue of the Bruins actually demonstrated the procedure on the show.
>He exhibited a couple masks he is currently working on, namely, a
>new mask for Andy Moog which is a basic re-working of his current
>mask with the bear on it, and new mask for Bob Essensa which was
>*really* cool -- the Jets logo was on the chin, and there were two
>fighter jets on either side on the forehead with an air-brushed
>back-ground.
Yeah, Essensa's mask looked really good.
>The best one of all was one he never talked about, he just held it up.
>It has the current Leafs crest on the chin and an awesome looking
>black panther on the forehead -- it *has* to be a new mask for Felix
>Potvin, but he never said whose it was.
Actually, I thought I heard him say that it _was_ Potvin's for certain.  I
would bet money on it either way...and it did look awesome!
dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca
From: mjr4u@Virginia.EDU ("Matthew J. Rush")
Subject: Re: NCAA finals...Winner????
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 4
ktgeiss@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu writes:
> Lake State/Maine in finals...WHO WON?   Please post.
Maine 5-4.
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)...
Keywords: NHL, awards
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 60
In article <C4zCII.Ftn@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> smale@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (Bryan Smale) writes:
>
>                        Team           Biggest       Biggest
>Team:                   MVP:          Surprise:    Disappointment:
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Boston Bruins           Oates          D.Sweeney     Wesley
>Buffalo Sabres          Lafontaine     Mogilny       Audette (jinx?)
>Calgary Flames          Roberts        Reichel       Petit
>Chicago Blackhawks      Roenick        Ruuttu        Goulet
Chelios is by far the MVP on Chicago...
>Detroit Red Wings       Yzerman        Chaisson      Kozlov
>Edmonton Oilers         Manson         Buchberger    Mellanby
Manson, by his own admission, had a terrible year...the Oilers
don't really have a team MVP...by default, it should go to Craig
MacTavish.  Shjon Podein was the biggest surprise...Tikkanen the
biggest disappointment.
>Hartford Whalers        Sanderson      Cassells      Corriveau
>Los Angeles Kings       Robitaille     Donnelly      Hrudey
>Minnesota North Stars   Modano      Tinordi(not expected back)  Broten
Tinordi was back by mid-season last year...and when he plays he is the MVP.
>Montreal Canadiens      Muller         Lebeau        Savard
>New Jersey Devils       Stevens        Semak         MacLean
>New York Islanders      Turgeon        King(finally) Marois
King had a great year last year also.
>New York Rangers        Messier        Kovalev       Bourque
How can Kovalev be a surprise?
>Ottawa Senators         MacIver        Baker         Jelinek
>Philadelphia Flyers     Lindros/Recchi Fedyk/Galley  Eklund
Fence-sitting...look at Philly's record with Eric and without...
there is no doubt.  Soderstrom is probably the biggest surprise.
>Pittsburgh Penguins     Lemieux        Tocchet(even for him)  Jagr
Tocchet had a near 100 point season in Philly with Mike Bullard as
his center...why shouldn't he be able to do that with Mario?
>Quebec Nordiques        Sakic/Ricci    Kovalenko     Pearson
>San Jose Sharks         Kisio          Gaudreau      Maley
>St Louis Blues          Shanahan       C.Joseph      Ron Sutter
Really Joseph deserves the MVP nod.
>Tampa Bay Lightening    Bradley        Bradley       Creighton/Kasper
>Toronto Maple Leafs     Gilmour        Potvin        Ellett/Anderson
>Vancouver Canucks       Bure           Nedved(finally)    Momesso
>Washington Capitals     Hatcher        Bondra/Cote   Elynuik
>Winnipeg Jets           Selanne        Selanne       Druce
Gerald
From: hse31913@vax1.utulsa.edu (hse31913@vax1.utulsa.edu(Scott H.), U of Tulsa)
Subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE DOUBTERS NOW?  HMM?
Organization: The University of Tulsa
Lines: 28
In article <1993Apr4.051942.27095@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>,
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
> And after the Leafs make cream cheese of the Philadelphia side tomorrow
> night the Leafs will be without equal.
>
> The Leafs are the best team in the Campbell Conference.
>
> cordially, as always,
>
> rm
>
> --
> Roger Maynard
> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
More like Philadelphia making dust out of dead Leafs.
Roger why do you continue to embarass yourself with your brash predictions?
They got whitewashed by a last place team.  Granted Philly is pretty decent
but the "best team in the Cambell Conference" would have beaten a last
place team.
--
Scott E. Humphrey,  Chemical Engineering, University of Tulsa
hse31913@vax1.utulsa.edu
Bruins for The Cup!!!
Opinions expressed are those of the individual, not of the U of Tulsa.
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra)
Subject: re:  Don Cherry's Coach's Corner Summary - April 3, 1993
Nntp-Posting-Host: stpl.ists.ca
Organization: Solar Terresterial Physics Laboratory, ISTS
Distribution: na
Lines: 53
allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan) writes:
Before I begin lambasting Don Cherry, let me first say that I've been sort of
a Cherry fan for a while...admittedly stuff he says has to be taken lightly,
but he's more-or-less harmless.  On Saturday, however, he crossed the lines of
good taste:
>According to Don, the entire article wasn't perfect, and there
>were some 'shots' by Frank Musil and Alpo Suhonen.
>Don noted that Musil wasn't much of a player (didn't
>score many goals last year). He also made fun of their names...
>One guy has a name like dog food, the other like a laxitive
>(meta-Musil).
This is the best he can do?!!  Gee Don, tremendous amounts of professionalism
here.  The CBC looks just as bad as he looks foolish letting him get away with
this nonsense...making fun of names??  It's bad enough that he makes asinine
blanket statements about European players, but he's now resorted to making fun
of their names too?  He sounded like an idiot, much like he did last week
when he said that Teemu would never make it to his 'Rock 'em, Sock 'em' video
until he dropped the gloves...
>On the subject of realignment, Don said that he liked the
>new division names.
Well, what he _said_ was that even though he's been around the league for quite
some time, he still doesn't know who's where w.r.t. conference and division
names.  HELLO??!! McFly??  The names have been around for a couple of decades
or so....he also invited the audience to "Name the teams in the Wales...quick,
quick!" Followed by "Ah, you don't know, I don't know...."
Sorry Don.  Wrong on this one.
>Ron (to Don): "I don't know wy I like you on your show
>for 30 minutes... I can hardly stand you on this show for 5."
This was absolutely hilarious.
Don's argument about the basketball and baseball brawls was fairly
good...unfortunately he neglected to mention the fines that were levelled in
the NBA case.  Serious money...oh well, he's never been one for objectivity,
has he?
Don's question to Gretzky:
>Wouldn't it be better
>for you to change your friends so that they like the game, than for
>us to change the game for your friends?"
Now this I liked.
From: slegge@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Trade rumor: Montreal/Ottawa/Phillie
Lines: 20
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
TSN Sportsdesk just reported that the OTTAWA SUN has reported that
Montreal will send 4 players + $15 million including Vin Damphousse
and Brian Bellows to Phillidelphia, Phillie will send Eric Lindros
to Ottawa, and Ottawa will give it's first round pick to Montreal.
If this is true, it will most likely depend on whether or not Ottawa
gets to choose 1st overall.  Can Ottawa afford Lindros' salary?
Personally, I can't see Philli giving up Lindros -- for anything.
They didn't give away that much to Quebec just to trade him away
again.  Not to mention that Lindros seems to be a *huge* draw in
Phillie -- and that he represents a successful future for the
franchise.
Ottawa may be better off taking the 4 players +$15 from Montreal
for the pick.
Stephen Legge
SLEGGE@kean.ucs.munc.ca
From: darling@cellar.org (Thomas Darling)
Subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE DOUBTERS NOW?  HMM?
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 18
jason@studsys.mscs.mu.edu (Jason Hanson) writes:
> In article <1993Apr4.051942.27095@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> maynard@ramsey.cs.
> >
> >And after the Leafs make cream cheese of the Philadelphia side tomorrow
> >night the Leafs will be without equal.
>
> Then again, maybe not.
To put it mildly.  As I watched the Flyers demolish Toronto last night, 4-0,
I realized that no matter how good the Leafs' #1 line may be, they'll need
one or two more decent lines to go far in the playoffs.  And, of course, a
healthy Felix Potvin.
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\\\^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Thomas A. Darling \\\ The Cellar BBS & Public Access System: 215.539.3043
darling@cellar.org \\\ GEnie: T.DARLING \\ FactHQ "Truth Thru Technology"
v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~\\\~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v
From: darling@cellar.org (Thomas Darling)
Subject: Re: Good for hockey/Bad for hockey
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 17
jmd@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (joseph.m.dakes) writes:
> In article <1ppdccINNbe1@dev-null.phys.psu.edu>, stimpy@dev-null.phys.psu.edu
> > In article <C4wxnF.Bx1@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mfoster@alliant.backbo
> > >I prefer the Miami Colons myself.  Headline: FLAMES BLOW OUT COLONS, 9-1
> >
> > Would Kevin Dineen play for the Miami Colons???
>
> As a Flyers fan, I resent you making Kevin Dineen the butt of your
> jokes:-)!
Aw, just take a moment to digest it and I'm sure you'll see the humour...
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\\\^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Thomas A. Darling \\\ The Cellar BBS & Public Access System: 215.539.3043
darling@cellar.org \\\ GEnie: T.DARLING \\ FactHQ "Truth Thru Technology"
v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~\\\~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v
From: umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Daryl Turner)
Subject: Re: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)...
Keywords: NHL, awards
Nntp-Posting-Host: gibson.cc.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Lines: 24
In article <1993Apr5.212018.25066@eng.cam.ac.uk> dscy@eng.cam.ac.uk (D.S.C. Yap) writes:
>smale@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (Bryan Smale) writes:
>
>>                        Team           Biggest       Biggest
>>Team:                   MVP:          Surprise:    Disappointment:
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Washington Capitals     Hatcher        Bondra/Cote   Elynuik
>>Winnipeg Jets           Selanne        Selanne       Druce
>
>                                                      ^^^^^^^^
>                                                      weren't these two
>                                                      traded for each
>                                                      other?  Poetic justice.
They were, and even if Washington might consider Patty a bust, I'd rework
that trade in a minute.  Druce has been a complete and utter bust here,
only 5 goals.
Daryl Turner : r.s.h contact for the Winnipeg Jets
Internet: umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca
FidoNET: 1:348/701 -or- 1:348/4  (please route through 348/700)
Tkachuk over to Zhamnov, up to Sel{nne, he shoots, he scores!
The Jets win the Cup!  The Jets win the Cup!
Essensa for Vezina!  Housley for Norris!  Sel{nne for Calder!
From: mac18@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael A. Cornell)
Subject: Hey FLYERS Fans!
Article-I.D.: usenet.1pqvti$74p
Reply-To: mac18@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael A. Cornell)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 23
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu
Did you ever notice how many people on the net have trouble in the
comparitively easy task of spelling the nick name of our fair city?  I
never knew that Philadelphia becomes Phillie or Philli when spoken of.  So
for all you who don't know yet here's a _little_ clue.
IT IS SPELLED:       P H I L L Y
OK...thank you.
Oh yeah, about that drug-induced trade rumor....I don't think the Sniders
are that stupid...the rumor you should be looking into is Mike Keenan
coming back to coach the FLYERS.
later
Mike
--
Mike Cornell     | "There are a great many people in the country today who,
mac18@po.cwru.edu|  through no fault of their own, are sane." -Monty Python
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's Go Flyers!  Stanley Cup in '94!  "OH! My brain hurts!"- Mr D. P. Gumby
From: seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr)
Subject: Re: Adams Division Race
Article-I.D.: cbnewsh.1993Apr5.141123.8101
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 21
In article <1993Apr2.175052.22810@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu>, breton@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Pierre Breton) writes:
>
>
> The Adams division race is certainly interesting this year.  Here are
> important data to keep in mind in the eventuality of a tie for a given
> standing position.
>
> In head to head games:
> Quebec wins over Montreal, 4-3-0;
> Boston leads against Quebec, 3-1-1 with two games remaining;
> Montreal and Boston are tied, 4-4-0 with one game remaining.
>
>       (..)        Pierre Breton   (aka Fluide Glacial)
Pierre,
For purposes of the tie breaker, you only count the first three games in
each city. Therefore, Quebec cannot possibly be ahead of Montreal 4-3,
and there's probably only one game that counts remaining between Boston
and Quebec, which means Boston has probably already won.
pete clark - rsh FLYERS contact
From: pereira@CAM.ORG (Dean Pereira)
Subject: Canadiens - another Stanley Cup???
Organization: Champlain Regional College, St-Lambert QC CANADA
Lines: 12
With the kind of team Montreal has now,  they can take the
cup easily.  The only problem they have right now is that everyone is
trying to steal the show and play alone.  They need some massive teamwork.
They are also in a little of a slump because long-time hockey
Montreal Canadiens announcer Claude Mouton died last tuesday and it was
rough on everybody because he has worked with the organization for 21
years.  But I know that is no excuse.  But if the Habs manage to get some
good teamwork and get into the spirit,  they should have no problem
winning in May.
Dean
From: drbombay@netlink.cts.com (Walter Ladwig)
Subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE DOUBTERS NOW?  HMM?
Article-I.D.: netlink.4iBk2B1w165w
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA
Lines: 7
The Blackhawks shall triumph.
Walter Ladwig             @ "This is the weather the cuckoo likes,
Net Link                  @  armored division submissive to
DrBombay@Netlink.cts.com  @  vernacular the world into a gambling
@  birdhouse velocity."
-The Cut-Ups
From: rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser)
Subject: Re: Canadiens - another Stanley Cup???
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 25
pereira@CAM.ORG (Dean Pereira) writes:
>		With the kind of team Montreal has now,  they can take the
>cup easily.  The only problem they have right now is that everyone is
>trying to steal the show and play alone.  They need some massive teamwork.
>	They are also in a little of a slump because long-time hockey
>Montreal Canadiens announcer Claude Mouton died last tuesday and it was
>rough on everybody because he has worked with the organization for 21
>years.  But I know that is no excuse.  But if the Habs manage to get some
>good teamwork and get into the spirit,  they should have no problem
>winning in May.
I agree. I also think Roy needs a good kick sometimes...that horrible
4-0 loss to the Capitals last week...yeeeech!
Here's to Cup #23...this year!
--
Richard J. Rauser        "You have no idea what you're doing."
rauser@sfu.ca            "Oh, don't worry about that. We're professional
WNI                          outlaws - we do this for a living."
-----------------
"Remember, no matter where you go, there you are." -Dr.Banzai
From: rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser)
Subject: Too Many Europeans in NHL
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 50
Ten years ago, the number of Europeans in the NHL was roughly a quarter
of what it is now. Going into the 1992/93 season, the numbers of Euros on
NHL teams have escalated to the following stats:
Canadians: 400
Americans: 100
Europeans: 100
Please note that these numbers are rounded off, and taken from the top
25 players on each of the 24 teams. My source is the Vancouver Sun.
Here's the point: there are far too many Europeans in the NHL. I am sick
of watching a game between an American and a Canadian team (let's say, the
Red Wings and the Canucks) and seeing names like "Bure" "Konstantinov" and
"Borshevshky". Is this North America or isn't it? Toronto, Detriot, Quebec,
and Edmonton are particularly annoying, but the numbers of Euros on other
teams is getting worse as well.
I live in Vancouver and if I hear one more word about "Pavel Bure, the
Russian Rocket" I will completely throw up. As it is now, every time I see
the Canucks play I keep hoping someone will cross-check Bure into the plexiglassso hard they have to carry him out on a stretcher. (By the way, I'm not a
Canucks fan to begin with ;-).
Okay, the stretcher remark was a little carried away. But the point is that
I resent NHL owners drafting all these Europeans INSTEAD of Canadians (and
some Americans). It denies young Canadians the opportunity to play in THEIR
NORTH AMERICAN LEAGUE and instead gives it to Europeans, who aren't even
better hockey players. It's all hype. This "European mystique" is sickening,
but until NHL owners get over it, Canadian and American players will continue
to have to fight harder to get drafted into their own league.
With the numbers of Euros in the NHL escalating, the problem is clearly
only getting worse.
I'm all for the creation of a European Hockey League, and let the Bures
and Selannes of the world play on their own continent.
I just don't want them on mine.
--
Richard J. Rauser        "You have no idea what you're doing."
rauser@sfu.ca            "Oh, don't worry about that. We're professional
WNI                          outlaws - we do this for a living."
-----------------
"Remember, no matter where you go, there you are." -Dr.Banzai
From: shadow@r-node.hub.org (Jay Chu)
Subject: Lindros will be traded!!!
Organization: Lindros traded!
Summary: Babe Lindros going to Ottawa!
Lines: 14
True rumor.  Fact!  A big three way deal!
Eric Lindros going to Ottawa Senators.  And Senators get $15mill from
Montreal.
Montreal gets Alexander Daigle (the first round pick from Senators)
Philly gets Damphousse, Bellow, Patrick Roy and a draft pick.
--
______                shadow@r-node.gts.org
| |__| |   If it's there and you can see it       - it's real
|  ()  |   If it's there and you can't see it     - it's transparent
|______|   If it's not there and you can't see it - you erased it!
From: jslam@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (joseph.lam)
Subject: Re: Request for Islanders e-mail list
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1993Apr5.183014.16567
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 26
In article <1993Apr3.014237.20959@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> bui@ee470.ee.mcgill.ca (BUI/DON/MR) writes:
>In article <16b5xvf@rpi.edu> wangr@rpi.edu writes:
>>>If anyone out there is keeping an Islanders e-mail list, could you
>>>please add me to it? Thanks in advance.
>>
>>>Ercu
>>
>>	Can u add me onto the list too....Thanks...
>>
>>Rex
>
>Count me IN !!!!
>
>Go Isles!
>
>						-Don
>
>bui@ee470.ee.mcgill.ca
>
Please count me in also...
Just can't tell you how excited I was when the Islanders beat the Rangers
in overtime on last Friday!!!
Go Isles!
From: mfoster@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Marc Foster)
Subject: Re: Expansion
Originator: news@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu
Distribution: na
Nntp-Posting-Host: midway.ecn.uoknor.edu
Organization: University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK
Lines: 33
In article <PATRICK.93Apr2201529@blanco.owlnet.rice.edu> patrick@blanco.owlnet.rice.edu (Patrick L Humphrey) writes:
>On Fri, 2 Apr 1993 22:05:16 GMT, vamwendt@atlas.cs.upei.ca (Michael Wendt) said
>>16.   Albany (New York), Boise (Idaho)--A couple of cities with fair interest
>>but size and closeness to other teams is a question.
>Albany has their AHL franchise (though it goes by the Capital District label),
>but Boise?  Forget it.  The CHL made an attempt at that part of the country in
>1983-84, with a franchise in Great Falls -- and no one showed up.  Folks up in
>that part of the PNW just aren't interested in hockey.
Hey Patrick, the Montana Magic played in Billings, not Great Falls...
>--PLH, I know where I'd put the next two NHL expansion teams: Phoenix and
>Houston, assuming the Whalers don't pack up and move in the meantime...
Marc, Phoenix and Houston it is...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_/_/    _/         _/_/   _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/   _/_/     _/_/_/
_/    _/  _/       _/    _/      _/  _/       _/    _/  _/
_/    _/  _/       _/    _/     _/   _/       _/    _/  _/
_/_/_/    _/       _/_/_/_/    _/    _/_/_/   _/_/_/      _/_/
_/    _/  _/       _/    _/   _/     _/       _/    _/        _/
_/    _/  _/       _/    _/  _/      _/       _/     _/       _/    _ _ _____
_/_/_/    _/_/_/_/ _/    _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/      _/ _/_/_/     - - /____/
...............................................................................
Marc Foster, r.s.h contact for the Oklahoma City Blazers, 1993 Central Hockey
University of Oklahoma Geography Department               League Adams Cup
Internet: mfoster@geohub.gcn.uoknor.edu                   Champions
mfoster@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu
To be placed on the CHL Mailing List, send email to either address above.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Trade rumor: Montreal/Ottawa/Phillie
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 42
In article <1993Apr5.203552.1@kean.ucs.mun.ca> slegge@kean.ucs.mun.ca writes:
>TSN Sportsdesk just reported that the OTTAWA SUN has reported that
>Montreal will send 4 players + $15 million including Vin Damphousse
>and Brian Bellows to Phillidelphia, Phillie will send Eric Lindros
>to Ottawa, and Ottawa will give it's first round pick to Montreal.
>
Obviously some reporter for the Ottawa Sun got taken by an April
Fools joke...probably started by someone with the Nordiques or the
Bruins.
Like for example...who is going to reimburse the Flyers for the
$15 million they paid to the Nordiques...like the Senators are
going to get Lindros and $15 million.  The Flyers sent the
equivalent of 6 or 7 players (when you include the draft choices)
to Quebec, and they are going to get only four back.
Some reporter was had real badly and someone must be having a
real good laugh seeing as how the so much of the sports media
has chosen to publicize this utter nonsense.
>If this is true, it will most likely depend on whether or not Ottawa
>gets to choose 1st overall.  Can Ottawa afford Lindros' salary?
>
Can you think...it cannot possibly be true...no need for the "if"!
>Personally, I can't see Philli giving up Lindros -- for anything.
>They didn't give away that much to Quebec just to trade him away
>again.  Not to mention that Lindros seems to be a *huge* draw in
>Phillie -- and that he represents a successful future for the
>franchise.
>
>Ottawa may be better off taking the 4 players +$15 from Montreal
>for the pick.
>
I can't believe that anyone would consider giving such crap even
the remotest consideration.
Gerald
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
Article-I.D.: ramsey.1993Apr6.045046.5658
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Lines: 15
In <rauser.734062608@sfu.ca> rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard "The Racist" Rauser) writes:
[all kinds of unacceptably racist drivel deleted]
And after that we find the man has absolutely nothing to say.
Richard J. Rauser, you are a dishonourable little man.
caustically, when necessary,
rm
--
Roger Maynard
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: jbarrett@aludra.usc.edu (Jonathan Barrett)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
Article-I.D.: aludra.1pr2c9INNg56
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 15
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu
rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>    Okay, the stretcher remark was a little carried away. But the point is that
>I resent NHL owners drafting all these Europeans INSTEAD of Canadians (and
>some Americans). It denies young Canadians the opportunity to play in THEIR
>NORTH AMERICAN LEAGUE and instead gives it to Europeans, who aren't even
>better hockey players. It's all hype. This "European mystique" is sickening,
>but until NHL owners get over it, Canadian and American players will continue
>to have to fight harder to get drafted into their own league.
According to what reasonable principle of justice does standing in intimate
geographical and psychological relations to a league give one some privileged
right to play in it?
A European
From: coulman@cs.Usask.CA (Randy Coulman)
Subject: Re: Playoff Predictions
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Lines: 28
Distribution: world
Reply-To: coulman@cs.Usask.CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: skorpio.usask.ca
In article <1993Apr04.223559.7129@rose.com>, jack.petrilli@rose.com (jack petrilli) writes:
[... stuff deleted ...]
>
>I don't understand why so many people are predicting an upset against
>Pittsburgh. The team has won 12 in a row coming into the playoffs.
>They've won practically every game that they've really wanted to win
>all year (including critical victories against the Caps and one
>against a hot Bruins team **at the Gaahden**). The team is probably at
>its peak (stronger than the previous 2 Stanley Cup winners). I mean, I
>know they can lose but it would be a **large** upset. I personally
>think teams are going to be hard pressed to win 1 or 2 games in any
>series against the Pens (and I'm **not** a Pittsburgh fan).
>
I have to agree here.  As I heard on TSN tonight, "You want to pick
someone else, but you just don't see how you can".  And I'm a Bruins
fan.  Maybe this year will be different, but it doesn't look good.
Time will tell, though.
[... lots more deleted ...]
Randy
--
Randy A. Coulman, M.Sc.         |       ARIES Laboratory
Research Assistant              |       Department of Computational Science
|       University of Saskatchewan
coulman@cs.Usask.ca             |       Saskatoon, SK   S7N 0W0
From: kozloce@wkuvx1.bitnet
Subject: Re: Good for hockey/Bad for hockey
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY
Lines: 25
In article <Rs2J2B8w164w@cellar.org>, darling@cellar.org (Thomas Darling) writes:
> jmd@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (joseph.m.dakes) writes:
>
>> In article <1ppdccINNbe1@dev-null.phys.psu.edu>, stimpy@dev-null.phys.psu.edu
>> > In article <C4wxnF.Bx1@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mfoster@alliant.backbo
>> > >I prefer the Miami Colons myself.  Headline: FLAMES BLOW OUT COLONS, 9-1
>> >
>> > Would Kevin Dineen play for the Miami Colons???
>>
>> As a Flyers fan, I resent you making Kevin Dineen the butt of your
>> jokes:-)!
>
> Aw, just take a moment to digest it and I'm sure you'll see the humour...
>
> ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\\\^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
> Thomas A. Darling \\\ The Cellar BBS & Public Access System: 215.539.3043
> darling@cellar.org \\\ GEnie: T.DARLING \\ FactHQ "Truth Thru Technology"
> v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~\\\~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v~v
If anybody is having problems following the thread be sure to ask the
origonal poster to rectify your misunderstanding.
KOZ
LETS GO CAPS!!!
From: maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: Canadiens - another Stanley Cup???
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Lines: 35
In <rauser.734062534@sfu.ca> rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>pereira@CAM.ORG (Dean Pereira) writes:
>>		With the kind of team Montreal has now,  they can take the
>>cup easily.  The only problem they have right now is that everyone is
>>trying to steal the show and play alone.  They need some massive teamwork.
This is known as the Savard syndrome - and we are talking Denis, not Serge.
No team will ever win squat with the likes of Denis Savard in their lineup.
>>	They are also in a little of a slump because long-time hockey
>>Montreal Canadiens announcer Claude Mouton died last tuesday and it was
>>rough on everybody because he has worked with the organization for 21
>>years.  But I know that is no excuse.  But if the Habs manage to get some
>>good teamwork and get into the spirit,  they should have no problem
>>winning in May.
They could tell Savard to stay home and watch the games on TV.
>   I agree. I also think Roy needs a good kick sometimes...that horrible
>4-0 loss to the Capitals last week...yeeeech!
>   Here's to Cup #23...this year!
Sounds like #12 to me.
cordially, as always,
rm
--
Roger Maynard
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
From: slegge@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Re:Re: Trade rumor: Montreal/Ottawa/Phillie
Lines: 20
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
>>TSN Sportsdesk just reported that the OTTAWA SUN has reported
>>tht Montreal will send 4 players + $15 million including Vin
>>Damphousse and Brian Bellows to Philldelphia, Phillie will send
>>Eric Lindros to Ottawa, and Ottawa will give it's first round pick
>>to Montreal.
>>Personally, I can't see Philli giving up Lindros -- for anything.
> Here we go again. Is this the same idiot who posted the Gretzky
> trade to Toronto????               ^^^^^?!!!
Listen, *ASSHOLE*, I'm just commenting on what I heard
reported on the sports news!!
You'll notice my skeptical comment!  Sheesh... I thought this group
wasfor conversation!  Guess I was wrong. }-<
Stephen Legge
SLEGGE@kean.ucs.munc.ca
From: daniell@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel Lyddy)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
Nntp-Posting-Host: cory.berkeley.edu
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Lines: 37
In article <rauser.734062608@sfu.ca> rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>
>
>   Ten years ago, the number of Europeans in the NHL was roughly a quarter
>of what it is now. Going into the 1992/93 season, the numbers of Euros on
>NHL teams have escalated to the following stats:
>
>Canadians: 400
>Americans: 100
>Europeans: 100
>
>
>   Here's the point: there are far too many Europeans in the NHL. I am sick
You know, you're absolutely right.  I think we should round up all those
players of European descent and ship 'em back to where they came from.  Let's
see, with whom should we start?  I dunno, Lemieux?  Hmmm...sounds like he
has *French* blood in him!!!  Hey!  France is part of Europe!  Send that
Euro-blooded boy back!!!
Sheesh.
>    I'm all for the creation of a European Hockey League, and let the Bures
>and Selannes of the world play on their own continent.
>
>    I just don't want them on mine.
I don't think it would be hard to find some Native Americans (or Native
Canadians, for that matter) who would dispute your claim to this great
continent of *ours.*  Ya see, if you believe the anthropologists, we're *all*
immigrants of some sort.  If you really don't think that Mogilny, Bure,
Selanne, et al have improved the NHL, then I'm not sure you understand the
game.
--
******************************************************************************
Dan Lyddy    daniell@cory.berkeley.edu    University of California at Berkeley
"No, I don't play hockey.  Not too many brothers do."  -- Deion Sanders
From: gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak)
Subject: Re: Good for hockey/Bad for hockey
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 20
>>> > >I prefer the Miami Colons myself.  Headline: FLAMES BLOW OUT COLONS, 9-1
>>> > Would Kevin Dineen play for the Miami Colons???
>>> As a Flyers fan, I resent you making Kevin Dineen the butt of your
>>> jokes:-)!
>> Aw, just take a moment to digest it and I'm sure you'll see the humour...
>If anybody is having problems following the thread be sure to ask the
>origonal poster to rectify your misunderstanding.
What about his rectum?
--
GO SKINS!    ||"Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite
GO BRAVES!   ||   an effect on you?" - Mike Patton, Faith No More
GO HORNETS!  ||
GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu
From: slegge@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Re: Too Many European in NHL
Lines: 29
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
RA>    Here's the point: there are far too many Europeans in the NHL.
R> I am sick of watching a game between an American and a Canadian
RA> team (let's say, the Red Wings and the Canucks) and seeing names
R> like "Bure" "Konstantinov" and "Borshevshky". Is this North America
RA> isn't it?
I disagree.  I think the NHL should feature the best hockey talent in
the world -- regardless of nationality.  I have to admit that when I
see players like Gretzky and Messier traded off to the US because the
Canadian teams can't afford them, I have been know to say (only half-
seriously) that we'd probably be better off if we had our own Canadian
hockey league for Canadian players! ;-)
RA> I'm all for the creation of a European Hockey League, and let
RA> te Bures and Selannes of the world play on their own continent.
RA>
RA> I just don't want themon mine.
Again, it doesn't matter to me -- Russian, Finnish, Mexican, Albertan,
New Yorker, black, white, korean, martian, plutoneon, ... it doesn't
matter.
Any of them can put a Leafs' jersey on if they can put the puck in!
:-)
Stephen Legge
SLEGGE@kean.ucs.munc.ca
From: stimpy@dev-null.phys.psu.edu (Gregory Nagy)
Subject: Re: Good for hockey/Bad for hockey
Article-I.D.: dev-null.1praf3INNj2s
Organization: Penn State, Null Device Department
Lines: 35
NNTP-Posting-Host: dev-null.phys.psu.edu
In article <91548@hydra.gatech.EDU> gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak) writes:
>>>> > >I prefer the Miami Colons myself.  Headline: FLAMES BLOW OUT COLONS, 9-1
>>>> > Would Kevin Dineen play for the Miami Colons???
>>>> As a Flyers fan, I resent you making Kevin Dineen the butt of your
>>>> jokes:-)!
>>> Aw, just take a moment to digest it and I'm sure you'll see the humour...
>>If anybody is having problems following the thread be sure to ask the
>>origonal poster to rectify your misunderstanding.
>
>	What about his rectum?
It's bad jokes like that which draws crohns, I mean groans from the crowd...
Don't bother looking it up in the appendix, it's useless anyway.
Just one more word of advice...
If you go to a Miami game, stay away from any foods made with "natural casings"
:)
--
__-----__     _______________________
/ _______ \   /                       \
|_// \/ \ \_| / Hockey! Hockey! Hockey! \
/__|O||O|__U\ \   Joy!    Joy!    Joy!  /
|/_ \_/\_/ _U | \_______________________/
| | (____) | ||  //    Stimpson J Kat
\/\___/\__/  // //     stimpy@dev-null.phys.psu.edu
(_/  _5_  ~~~| //      nagy@physci.psu.edu
|   \*/     |\/       nagy@cs.psu.edu
\___v_____/_/        nagy@crayola.cs.psu.edu
\____/---//         nagy@love-shack.com
__|| _-----               and oh yeah...
(____(____)           GGN100@psuvm.[psu.edu,bitnet]
~~~~ ~~~~
From: "Terence M. Rokop" <tr2i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: NCAA finals...Winner????
Organization: Freshman, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 9
NNTP-Posting-Host: andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <1993Apr4.165655.16932@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>
ktgeiss@miavx1.acs.muohi writes:
>Lake State/Maine in finals...WHO WON?   Please post.
Maine 5, LSSU 4.
Terry
From: v124p7kk@ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu (Darryl S Brooks)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL (Euro-bashing?)
Organization: University at Buffalo
Lines: 60
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu
In article <rauser.734062608@sfu.ca>, rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes...
>
>
>   Here's the point: there are far too many Europeans in the NHL. I am sick
>of watching a game between an American and a Canadian team (let's say, the
>Red Wings and the Canucks) and seeing names like "Bure" "Konstantinov" and
>"Borshevshky". Is this North America or isn't it? Toronto, Detriot, Quebec,
>and Edmonton are particularly annoying, but the numbers of Euros on other
>teams is getting worse as well.
>
>    I live in Vancouver and if I hear one more word about "Pavel Bure, the
>Russian Rocket" I will completely throw up. As it is now, every time I see
>the Canucks play I keep hoping someone will cross-check Bure into the plexiglassso hard they have to carry him out on a stretcher. (By the way, I'm not a
>Canucks fan to begin with ;-).
>
>    Okay, the stretcher remark was a little carried away. But the point is that
>I resent NHL owners drafting all these Europeans INSTEAD of Canadians (and
>some Americans). It denies young Canadians the opportunity to play in THEIR
>NORTH AMERICAN LEAGUE and instead gives it to Europeans, who aren't even
>better hockey players. It's all hype. This "European mystique" is sickening,
>but until NHL owners get over it, Canadian and American players will continue
>to have to fight harder to get drafted into their own league.
>
>    With the numbers of Euros in the NHL escalating, the problem is clearly
>only getting worse.
>
>    I'm all for the creation of a European Hockey League, and let the Bures
>and Selannes of the world play on their own continent.
>
>    I just don't want them on mine.
>
>
Ah, so now we're into European player bashing?  What next?
No more French Canadiens?  Yeah, there's an idea!  Let them French-
speaking Canadiens have their own hockey league!  We don't want them!
Are you _CRAZY_?  The NHL is one of the true international
leagues, and yes, there _ARE_ many Europeans who deserve to play in
the NHL and are better than some North Americans, look at Teemu!!!
I, for one, am glad to see Europeans in the NHL and I hope the
NHL soon expands to Europe.  Its nice to see all these different
people come together to form the (soon to be) 26 hockey teams.
>
>
>--
>Richard J. Rauser        "You have no idea what you're doing."
>rauser@sfu.ca            "Oh, don't worry about that. We're professional
>WNI                          outlaws - we do this for a living."
>-----------------
>"Remember, no matter where you go, there you are." -Dr.Banzai
Darryl Brooks                    University at Buffalo
__                 ______                        ///
| |     /  \  \ \     / /  / _____          / /         ////
| |    / /\ \  \ \___/ /  (  \          ---/-/---       ///
| |   / /__\ \   \   /      \  \       ---/-/---       ///
| |____| |  /  ____  \   | |     ____\  )       / /          ///
\______/  / /      \ \  | |     ______/                  ///////
Go Bills, Sabres, and Magic!!
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Stan Fischler, 4/4
Summary: From the Devils pregame show, prior to hosting the Penguins
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Lines: 32
At the Lester Patrick Awards lunch, Bill Torrey mentioned that one of his
options next season is to be president of the Miami team, with Bob Clarke
working for him.  At the same dinner, Clarke said that his worst mistake
in Philadelphia was letting Mike Keenan go -- in retrospect, almost all
players came realize that Keenan knew what it took to win.  Rumours are
now circulating that Keenan will be back with the Flyers.
Nick Polano is sick of being a scapegoat for the schedule made for the
Red Wings; After all, Bryan Murray approved it.
Gerry Meehan and John Muckler are worried over the Sabres' prospects;
Assistant Don Lever says that the Sabres have to get their share now,
because a Quebec dynasty is emerging ...
The Mighty Ducks have declared that they will not throw money around
loosely to buy a team.
Oilers coach Ted Green remarked that "There some guys around who can
fill Tie Domi's skates, but none who can fill his helmet."
Senators' Andrew McBain told off a security guard at Chicago Stadium
who warned him of the stairs leading down to the locker room; McBain
mouthed off at him, after all being a seasoned professional ... and
tumbled down the entire steep flight.
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: "Patricia L. Bruno" <pb37+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Hockey Hell
Organization: Freshman, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 42
<C4s4JK.F72@andy.bgsu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: andrew.cmu.edu
In-Reply-To: <C4s4JK.F72@andy.bgsu.edu>
>
>In article <C4nq5G.EKB@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>,
>rgemeinh@separator.ecn.purdue.edu (Richard A Gemeinhart) wrote:
>>
>> In article <1993Mar26.155933.9669@ncsu.edu> fmsalvat@eos.ncsu.edu
(FRANK MICH
>AE SALVATORE) writes:
>> >
>> >
>> >I am originally from New York State, and I go to school
>> >in North Carolina.  Yet, I don't constantly gripe about
>> >the lack of hockey.  Wouldn't some of you who chose to go
>> >to school in the South realize (most who gripe are Clemson students)
>> >that hockey isn't quite as popular in South Carolina
>> >when you chose a school?
>> >
>> >Why did you all (excuse me - y'all) choose schools in
>> >the South if hockey was this important to you?
>>
>> Not everyone has the luxury of deciding on a college by making sure the
>> hockey coveraage is what you want it to be.  I am a Pittsburgh transplan
>> to S. C. when at home and the coveraage sucks.  Sports south didn't
even show
>> the final game of the Stanley Cup laast year while it was happening.  They
>> put it on ktape delay and cut the intermissions then went off the air.
>> When you move you take the good with the bad and deal with it;  it doesn't
>> mean thaat you can't complain about it.
>
>I was transplanted by my parents from the Greater Hartford area to the
>Greater Cleveland, Ohio area.  This was not an action of my choice.  The
>only hockey coverage I could get there regularly was Red Wings and Penguins
>(explaining, in part, why I follow these teams today).  In Cleveland you
>couldn't even find hockey scores on the 11 o'clock news because they
>figured that if they didn't have it, it wasn't a sport.
>
At least your parents didn't move you Idaho.  The only things that get
any coverage there are football, basketball and baseball!
Patty
From: ddf@mips.com (Dee Dee France)
Subject: European/Russian Hockey team addresses?
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc
Lines: 56
NNTP-Posting-Host: ralph.mti.sgi.com
Originator: ddf@ralph.mti.sgi.com
Does anyone have the addresses to any of the following hockey teams
located in the Czech/Slovak Republics, Finland, Russia or Sweden?
Any information on how to find these addresses would also be appreciated.
Aik
Assat
Brynas
Budejovice
Chelabinsk
Djurgarden
Dynamo
Eskulap
Espoo
Farjestad
Frolunda
HPK
HV-71
Hifk
Ilves
JYP HT
Jihlava
Jokerit
Jokp
Kalpa
Khimik
Kladno
Kristall
Lada
Leksand
Litvinov
Lukko
Lulea
Malmo
Metallurg
Modo
Olomouc
Pardubice
Red Army
Rogle
Skoda
Slovan
Soviet Wings
Sparta
Spartak
TPS
Tappara
Trencin
Tuto
Vantaa
Vasteras
Yaroslavl
Zlin
--
Dee Dee France
ddf@sgi.com
From: adams@hunter.unr.edu (Brian Adams)
Subject: Re: In memoriam: Dan Kelly and Danny Gallivan
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno  Department of Computer Science
Distribution: na
Lines: 30
In article <1993Apr5.194440.18546@ists.ists.ca> dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra) writes:
>In article <burke.1-290393150052@burkemac.oshag.nd.edu> burke.1@nd.edu (R. P. Burke) writes:
>>When talking about hockey broadcasters, let's give a moment of silence to
>>remember the St. Louis Blues' great, Dan Kelly. (Many of you may have heard
>>him in the late 60s and early 70s on CBS.) He used to do Hockey Night In
>>Canada intermissions, with another recently deceased great, Danny Gallivan
>>of the Canadiens.
>
I *loved* Dan Kelly!  He was on USA when I first got hooked on Hockey back
in 1980 or so.  No, he wasn't always spot on top of the play, and he
wasn't overly cute, but those pipes!  That lusty, barrel chested, voice!
No pipsqueak was he (unlike some fellas we know!)
I rode into hockey mania on the coattails of Gretzky and the Boys on the
Bus.  My first Finals saw the Islanders sweep them.  But I'll never
forget the night, a year later, when the Oilers closed it out at home in
the pandemonium, the smoke from a million sparklers, the long empty-net
goal near the end, and Dan Kelly letting the crowd's reaction tell the
story for a few long seconds, then that voice barking through the din
"Dave Lumley ... sews it up for Edmonton!"  It sounds stupid, but that
early (for me) hockey memory will always bring a thrill.  Since then
I've grown a lot more jaded about the game, but I was really saddened
by Dan Kelly's passing.  He was one of the good guys.
Brian Adams
Reno
From: mjacques@flute.calpoly.edu (Michael Jacques)
Subject: Re: Playoff Predictions
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
Lines: 51
In article <1pn4qhINNsm1@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> boudreau@athena.mit.edu (Carol V. Boudreau) writes:
>
>
>In the Smythe:
>This one is the toughest for me to call, because I have to put
>personal bias aside (Go Calgary).  I think a lot depends on who
>wins the division.  Winnipeg will move into third by the end of
>the season, and the first place winner will have a clear advantage.
>It will be a lot easier to build momentum against a team like the
>Kings.  Whoever plays the Kings in the first round will take the
>division.  Much as it hurts, I have to pick,
>Division Winner - Vancouver Canucks
I'll have to disagree with you on this one. I think Vancouver will go as
Bure goes, and if he continues on his goal scoring slump, then they
won't even make it out of the first round. I think the Kings will make
it out of the first round, regardless of who they play. They seem to be
doing pretty well, even with that bad game against Minnesota on
Saturday. I think it'll be either Calgary or Los Angeles to win the
Smythe (i.e. go on to the conference finals).
>
>Wales Conference Trophy:
>Islanders and Bruins will fight to the end, but I think the
>Islanders have enough steam to overtake the Bruins in seven.
>
>Campbell Conference Trophy:
>a walk for Vancouver, maybe in 5 or 6 but definately not 7.
>
>Stanley Cup Final:
>Islanders and Vancouver.  Islanders will have nothing left by
>this point and will succumb fairly easily to the Canucks.
>
>Stanley Cup Champion: Vancouver Canucks
Still have to disagree with you here. I think it'll be Pittsburg to
get the hat trick in Stanley Cups. They just look
toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo good.
>
>I hope you have enjoyed my predictions.  I hope they are not
>all correct (Go Calgary).
>
Neither do I. Well, may the best team win it all (Pittsburg). That's
just my $.02 worth.
>
>--
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>message from the terminal of:
>Carol Boudreau  <boudreau@Athena.mit.edu>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: peterson@pms001.pms.ford.com (Doug Peterson)
Subject: NCAA Hockey Final
Organization: Ford Motor Company
Lines: 34
Distribution: world
Reply-To: peterson@pms860.pms.ford.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: pms001.pms.ford.com
Keywords: college
I haven't seen anyone post this so I will do the honors.
Maine beat LSSU 5-4 in Milwaukee on Saturday night.  It was quite a game.
Maine stormed to a 2-0 lead in the first and looked like they might run away
with it.  Maine's first goal came inside the first thirty seconds of the game.
LSSU came back at the end of the period to cut the lead to 2-1.
LSSU came out in the second dominating the play particularly along the boards.
The play went quickly with the refs running a no-holds-barred type of game.
LSSU scored three more unanswered goals to lead 4-2 at the end of the second.
Now it looked like LSSU might just walk away with the game.
Coach Walsh, of Maine, replaced the starting goalie Dunham with Snow, who won
the game against Michigan.  Snow proved to be a much more aggressive goalie.
The third period, like the second, belonged to the team behind.  Maine scored
three unanswered goals in a span of five minutes after the four minute mark.
They were all scored by Jim Montgomery, the tournament MVP, and all assisted by
Paul Kariya.
The last minute of the game bears highlighting.  The change to Snow also
proved the difference in the end.  With one minute to go and with the LSSU
goalie pulled, Snow dueled with a LSSU forward in a amazing set of moves by
both.  Snow won.  It was a great way to end the game.
This year's three championships games were sold out last year in about one
month.  The Bradley Center holds approximately 17,700.
--
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Douglas J. Peterson                   Have         _--____    ____
peterson@pms860.pms.ford.com            you        `   /  ----        /
Safety Laboratories Department            driven     -/- __  ____ _  /
Ford Motor Company                           a    .  /  / \--/___/ \/
(313) 390-8089                                    \_/  ,\_/ /    \_/_   lately?
From: MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
In-Reply-To: rauser@fraser.sfu.ca's message of Tue, 6 Apr 1993 02:16:48 GMT
Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24
Lines: 53
In <rauser.734062608@sfu.ca> rauser@fraser.sfu.ca writes:
>
>
>    Ten years ago, the number of Europeans in the NHL was roughly a quarter
> of what it is now. Going into the 1992/93 season, the numbers of Euros on
> NHL teams have escalated to the following stats:
>
> Canadians: 400
> Americans: 100
> Europeans: 100
>
>    Please note that these numbers are rounded off, and taken from the top
> 25 players on each of the 24 teams. My source is the Vancouver Sun.
>
>    Here's the point: there are far too many Europeans in the NHL. I am sick
> of watching a game between an American and a Canadian team (let's say, the
> Red Wings and the Canucks) and seeing names like "Bure" "Konstantinov" and
> "Borshevshky". Is this North America or isn't it? Toronto, Detriot, Quebec,
> and Edmonton are particularly annoying, but the numbers of Euros on other
> teams is getting worse as well.
That's why we have expansion - to create more jobs. NHL teams can't afford to
import role players from Europe, they pick the stars but will continue to build
their teams around local players.
>
>     With the numbers of Euros in the NHL escalating, the problem is clearly
> only getting worse.
>
>     I'm all for the creation of a European Hockey League, and let the Bures
> and Selannes of the world play on their own continent.
I'd *LOVE* to see a European NHL division but can't see it happen for some
time. There's simply not enough fan interest at the moment in several
"crucial" markets like Germany, Italy and France while Sweden and Finland
probably can't afford to shell out $20-$30 for tickets the way
American/Canadian fans do. Call it "the Minnesota North Stars" effect:
Scandinavians do love hockey but we prefer to watch local, inexpensive
hockey to the NHL. The National Hockey League should love the idea, though.
Pan-European TV channels such as Eurosport could bring in the millions the
American networks likely never will pay.
>     I just don't want them on mine.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Richard J. Rauser        "You have no idea what you're doing."
> rauser@sfu.ca            "Oh, don't worry about that. We're professional
> WNI                          outlaws - we do this for a living."
> -----------------
> "Remember, no matter where you go, there you are." -Dr.Banzai
From: seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr)
Subject: Re: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)...
Organization: AT&T
Keywords: NHL, awards
Lines: 34
In article <1993Apr5.221541.28537@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
> In article <C4zCII.Ftn@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> smale@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (Bryan Smale) writes:
> >
> >                        Team           Biggest       Biggest
> >Team:                   MVP:          Surprise:    Disappointment:
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Philadelphia Flyers     Lindros/Recchi Fedyk/Galley  Eklund
>
> Fence-sitting...look at Philly's record with Eric and without...
> there is no doubt.  Soderstrom is probably the biggest surprise.
Re Eric: True, but fortunately we didn't get to find out what they would be
like without Recchi for 30 games.
Soderstrom: Absolutely. 4 shutouts in 39 games for a rookie without a lot
of defense in front of him. Runnerups to Galley and Fedyk who are scoring
a ton over their career best. But Galley thinks he's Paul Coffey (puts scoring
ahead of defending) and Fedyk has tailed off big time.
Eklund: Was a big question mark this year and was coming off injuries. 42
points in 49 games is not bad at all, and recently he's been a huge factor
in the wins they've gotten. Eklund has never had a point a game season in
his career, his production is very typical for him. How does he qualify as
a disappointment? If anything he's a surprise.
My choice would be Roussel if I went strictly by what was expected of players,
but I never thought that he had what it takes to be a #1 goalie. My biggest
disappointment is Bill Dineen. I thought that he was going to be the perfect
coach for this young team, instead he's made too many bad moves and IMHO
has cost them enough games to keep them out of the playoffs this year. Any
coach that thinks putting Eric Lindros at the point on power plays is a
bright idea needs to go back to coaching school.
pete clark jr - rsh FLYERS contact and mailing list owner
From: seth@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (peter.r.clark..jr)
Subject: FLYERS notes 4/5
Organization: AT&T
Keywords: FLYERS/Leafs summary (take that, Leafs woofers!)
Lines: 225
The FLYERS team that can beat any team on any night showed up at the Spectrum
Sunday night, and dominated the Maple Leafs thoroughly en route to a 4-0
shutout. Tommy Soderstrom will get credit for the shutout, but he barely broke
a sweat until the third period as the FLYERS defense kept the Leafs from
mounting any serious attack.
Injuries:
Pelle Eklund is day-to-day with a bruised thigh.
Roster Moves:
Jason Bowen was added to the lineup for his first NHL game. Jason was the FLYERS
second pick in the first round (15th overall) of the 1992 entry draft. 19 years
old, 6'4", 210 lbs. In 62 games with the tri-city Americans he had 10 goals,
12 assists and 219 PIM. He plays left wing and defense, he played defense in
this game although Bobby Taylor said that Bill Dineen was planning to use him
up front as well.
Andre Faust was returned to Hershey. He actually left after the second period
of the Kings game, flew to Albany, got the game tying goal in a Bears OT win,
and played again for Hershey Sunday night.
Lines:
Fedyk-Lindros-Recchi
Beranek-Brind'Amour-Dineen
Lomakin-Butsayev-Conroy
Acton-Brown
Galley-McGill
Yushkevich-Cronin
Carkner-Hawgood
Bowen
Tommy Soderstrom in goal.
Acton replaced Lomakin in the 3rd period.
Game Summary:
If the FLYERS played like this every night, they'd be in the playoffs this
year. The FLYERS hit everything that moved. They created scoring chance after
scoring chance. They snuffed out everything that the Leafs tried to do.
Jason Bowen made a good play on his first NHL shift that almost created a goal.
He had the puck in the top of the left offensive circle all alone, but instead
of taking the shot he found Brind'Amour crashing the net on the other side.
A perfect pass and a good shot across Daren Puppa's body should have been a
goal, but Puppa made a great save reading the play.
Garry Galley gave the Maple Leafs 7th ranked power play the first chance when
he hooked Doug Gilmour at 4:25. The FLYERS lowly 21st ranked penalty killing
unit was almost flawless the entire game, and set the tone on this kill. The
Maple Leafs got almost nothing but long unscreened shots, and the defense swept
away every rebound.
After the power play, the FLYERS got a goal on an ugly play. Rod Brind'Amour
gave the puck to Greg Hawgood at the right point, and he sent a drive at the
net. Puppa made the save and kicked the rebound right into the feet of Josef
Beranek and Bob Rouse, who were wrestling in the slot. Beranek was able to
get his stick on the puck and push it out to Dineen who was skating into
the slot from the right circle, and he lifted a backhander over Puppa for
a 1-0 FLYERS lead at 8:10.
The FLYERS kept the pressure on, and Puppa was the only Leaf keeping the FLYERS
from building on their lead for a while. Eventually things settled down and
defense prevailed. Each team got an occasional scoring chance, but the goalies
were strong. Bowen started giving some Lindros-like checks in his own corners.
Then Lindros, who was looking to avenge a hit Foligno gave him, thought he had
a chance to even the score. He had Foligno lined up at center ice, leaned into
him, and rode him into the center ice boards. The only problem was that Foligno
was a little far from the boards, and Mike "Mister" McGeough felt that it
warranted a boarding call at 15:38
The Leafs couldn't get anything going on the power play as the FLYERS were
very aggressive (for a change) on the kill.
With time running out in the period, Recchi carried through the neutral zone
and handed to Lindros as they approached the Leaf's blue line. They were in
a crowd with Wendell Clark and Jamie Macoun, Lindros tried a backhand pass
to Recchi through the feet of Macoun that connected to Recchi, but then Clark
checked Recchi off the puck. Macoun then tried to clear, but it was weak and
went right to McGill who had manned the point. He drove it from just inside
the blue line. Macoun got his stick on it and deflected it past his own
goalie at 19:55.1. Shots were 13-8 FLYERS in the period.
The FLYERS finally got their first chance on the power play when Dave Andreychuk
tripped up Rod Brind'Amour in his offensive zone. During the power play, the
FLYERS got cheated a little when the puck popped up into the air and Eric
gloved it down, but McGeough thought it hit his stick above his head. We
could see from our seats at the other end of the ice that it only hit his glove
and the replay confirmed, but the faceoff went to the other end. As time was
running out in the advantage, Lindros found Galley with a pass across the goal
mouth but Puppa made the save. The rebound kicked back to the right corner where
Recchi picked it up, passed it out to Eric crashing through the right circle,
and Eric one-timed past Puppa at 7:55. With the assist, Recchi moves past
Bobby Clarke's 74-75 season, the second best one season total for a FLYER at
117.  Eric moves up to 4th all time in FLYERS rookie scoring with 67 points.
Mike Eastwood took down Al Conroy at 8:30 to give the FLYERS another chance on
the power play. Not much pressure before Garry Galley ended the power play with
a slash at 9:19. Not much happened on the 4 on 4, although the Leafs had most
of the possession. The FLYERS smothered the Leafs short power play. Tempers
flared a little at 13:14. Bowen and Pearson got roughing minors, Keith Acton
got a bloody face. Dave McLlwain then took a dive and got Greg Hawgood a
hooking minor at 13:46 to set up a 4 on 3. The replay showed that Hawgood's
stick stopped making contact with McLlwain long before he spun around and fell.
Again the FLYERS smothered the Leafs power play, led by Dimitri Yushkevich.
Bowen made a thundering hit when he came out of the box on Pearson. Berehowski
tried to perplex everybody with his sloooowball. He had the puck at the point,
and just trickled a pass down the slot. He made all the FLYERS look silly as
nobody could get a stick on it, and it got to Gilmour at the side of the net,
but Soderstrom stoned him.
The FLYERS picked things up offensively after the kill was over, but didn't
get anything home. Shots were 13-10 FLYERS.
The FLYERS were content with the 3 goal lead in the third period, and they
decided that if Tommy wanted a shutout, he was going to have to work for it a
little.
The FLYERS got most of the scoring chances in the first 7 or so minutes of the
period, but couldn't get past Puppa. Then the Leafs got tired of Lindros making
road kill out of them, and tempers flared. 2 each for Doug Gilmour and Lindros
(unsportsmanlike conduct) and 2 each for Glenn Anderson and McGill (roughing)
all at 7:02. Terry Carkner then took a kneeing penalty at 7:51 on Gilmour.
Again the FLYERS smothered the Leafs power play.
At about the 12 minute mark, Dave Andreychuk got a shot away from his left
circle that got through Soderstrom. The puck was rolling on it's side, and
as luck would have it it turned away from the net instead of turning towards
it (think of how a rolling quarter inevitably starts to lean one way or the
other). Seconds later Rod Brind'Amour tripped up Gilmour at 12:24 to give the
Leafs another chance on the power play. On the advantage, after Soderstrom
stoned Andreychuk while lying down, Andreychuk got the rebound through
Soderstrom, but from behind the net and it went straight through and was swept
away by one of his defensemen. They kept the pressure on, but Soderstrom was
equal and preserved the shutout.
Recchi cross checked Ken Baumgartner to get tempers hot and start a brawl
at 16:01. No punches thrown, Recchi got the initial minor, Krushelnyski
Baumgartner and Lindros each got roughing minors. At 17:02 Rouse and Beranek
expressed their mutual dislike for each other and got 2 each for slashing to
set up another 4 on 4. Mike Eastwood shoved down Ryan McGill in the FLYERS
zone as they were battling for the puck, and while McGill was down he ran
his stick across McGill's face. The FLYERS were not happy with that at all.
5-8 Al Conroy paired up with 6-1 Berehowski, and started throwing punches.
Upward. Well, Al held his own, much to the delight of the crowd. Each got
a couple punches in before going down in a head, and Al got a standing O!
Penalties: Eastwood 5 (cross check) + game, Clark, Carkner 10 each. Berehowski
and Conroy 5 each (fighting) at 17:49.
So a major penalty for the rest of the game for the FLYERS. The had no interest
in stting on the lead. Hawgood, Galley and Brind'Amour played catch until
Hawgood found Dineen all alone in the left circle, he controlled the puck and
blasted it past Puppa at 18:39.
That was all the fireworks, Tommy Soderstrom would not face another shot. Puppa
did, but kept the FLYERS off the board. 4-0 FLYERS, shots were 9-8 FLYERS in the
3rd. Probably the strongest game I've seen from the FLYERS since the All Star
break. Shutout number 4 for Soderstrom, all since 1/10. Tied for 2nd most in
the NHL, but he's played fewer games than Belfour (6) or the goalie I can't
remember that he's tied with.
Next up it's the Winnipeg Selannes Tuesday night in Winnipeg. The FLYERS cannot
be eliminated if they win, but a loss coupled with an Islander win that night
in Washington would be the official end.
FLYERS up to 71 points on the season in 78 games. Last year they had 75 points
in 80 games (5 under .500), so they need at least 8 points in their last 6
games to improve on that only by percentage points (5 under in 84 is better
than 5 under in 80).
Tragic number holds at 3 points with 6 games left. The tragic number for 5th
is 5 points, I watched the Rangers blow a 4-2 third period lead at home to
lose 5-4 before I finished this up. Why 5 points instead of 4? Well, the FLYERS
will win the tie-breaker if they catch them, whereas the Islanders win tie
breakers against the FLYERS and so need only a tie. The Rangers could crumble
down the stretch as they play the Devils, the Pens twice, the FLYERS, and
finish up with 2 games against the Caps. So I guess 5th place could be the
goal for the team to focus on.
FLYERS team record watch:
Eric Lindros:
38 goals, 29 assists, 67 points
(rookie records)
club record goals:			club record points:
Eric Lindros	38 1992-93		Dave Poulin	76 1983-84
Brian Propp	34 1979-80		Brian Propp	75 1979-80
Ron Flockhart	33 1981-82		Ron Flockhart	72 1981-82
Dave Poulin	31 1983-84		Eric Lindros	67 1992-93
Bill Barber	30 1972-73		Pelle Eklund	66 1985-86
Mark Recchi:
51 goals, 66 assists, 117 points.
club record goals:			club record points:
Reggie Leach	61 1975-76		Bobby Clarke	119 1975-76
Tim Kerr	58 1985-86,86-87	Mark Recchi	117 1992-93
Tim Kerr	54 1983-84,84-85	Bobby Clarke	116 1974-75
Mark Recchi	51 1992-93		Bill Barber	112 1975-76
Rick Macliesh	50 1972-73		Bobby Clarke	104 1972-73
Bill Barber	50 1975-76		Rick Macliesh	100 1972-73
Reggie Leach	50 1979-80
FLYERS career years:
Player		Points	Best Prior Season
Mark Recchi	117	113 (90-91 Penguins)
Rod Brind'Amour	79	77 (91-92 FLYERS)
Garry Galley	58	38 (84-85 Kings)
Brent Fedyk	58	35 (90-91 Red Wings)
That's all for now...
pete clark jr - rsh FLYERS contact and mailing list owner
From: hahietanen@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi
Subject: Strange phenomens in NHL (was: Team leaders in +/-)
Lines: 60
Nntp-Posting-Host: tne01.tele.nokia.fi
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
In article <1993Apr5.195705.29227@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>, maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
> In <1993Apr5.185633.17843@ists.ists.ca> dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak Chhabra) writes:
>
>>Implicitly you are assuming that goals scored against Winnipeg with Selanne
>>on the ice can be blamed on him...Roger, he is a FORWARD.  Winnipeg has a
>>lousy defensive record anyway.  Let's put it another way.  John Cullen's +/-
>>is terrible.  What's your excuse for him?  That his powerplay points don't
>>count?  Neither do Selanne's...
>
> Are you comparing Cullen to Salami?  I would say that that is valid.  If
> Winnipeg is such a lousy defensive team then why the hell does Salami
> stand around the other team's blueline when the puck is in his own end?
I thought that he was comparing Cullen to TEEMU SEL[NNE. I always thought
that salami is some sort of sausage, BUT IF YOU, dear Roger, ARE ABLE TO
SEE SALAMI ON THE ICE PLAYING HOCKEY... I don't know what to do, but you
surely should do something and very quickly!!!
Maybe you think that if you keep on talking some rubbish, after some time
everybody will consider it to be really true... You should take care of
your LEAFS, they surely need it more.
>
>>What he does best is score...so I refer you to my comment above.
>
> Some of our Finnish friends who have watched him play claim that he
> can play a solid two-way game.  I would have to say that this style
> of contribution would be more conducive to winning.  Or don't you
> think so?
At least we have seen him playing...
>
>>>As it is now, Selanne
>>>is a grandstanding goal suck.  Did you see the way he parades around
>>>with his arms outstretched after scoring a goal?  You would think the
>>>Messiah had returned...
During the latest Philly game the Leaf players didn't parade... Philly
crunched them 4-0 !!!  Maybe you need some more two way players who can
score, too !!???
>
>
> cordially, as always,
>
> rm
>
> --
> Roger Maynard
> maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
just cordially,
Hannu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> GO  JETS  GO ! >>>>>>>> TEEMU ! >>>>>>> TEPPO ! >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> TAPPARA >>>>>> CANADIENS >>>>>>> BLACKHAWKS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Subject: Re: Trade rumor: Montreal/Ottawa/Phillie
From: <JER108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 50
In article <93095.210625MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu>, <MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu>
says:
>
>Also sprach slegge@kean.ucs.mun.ca ...
>
>>TSN Sportsdesk just reported that the OTTAWA SUN has reported that
>>Montreal will send 4 players + $15 million including Vin Damphousse
>>and Brian Bellows to Phillidelphia, Phillie will send Eric Lindros
>>to Ottawa, and Ottawa will give it's first round pick to Montreal.
>>
>>If this is true, it will most likely depend on whether or not Ottawa
>>gets to choose 1st overall.  Can Ottawa afford Lindros' salary?
>>
>>Personally, I can't see Philli giving up Lindros -- for anything.
>>They didn't give away that much to Quebec just to trade him away
>>again.  Not to mention that Lindros seems to be a *huge* draw in
>>Phillie -- and that he represents a successful future for the
>>franchise.
>>
>>Ottawa may be better off taking the 4 players +$15 from Montreal
>>for the pick.
>>
>>Stephen Legge
>>SLEGGE@kean.ucs.munc.ca
>
>Two things:
>
>1. Didn't the trade deadline pass two weeks ago?
>
>2. The FLYERS would never ever EVER give up Lindros, simple as that.
>
3. With Soderstrom and Roussel, why the hell would the Flyers want to
pick up an older and slumping Roy?
(BYW, I could come up with a group of players they'd trade for.... but
they wouldn't be from the same team.)
>Go Flyers, Cup in '94...
>
>Mike
>---
>***Yes-Rush-Marillion-ELP-Genesis-King Crimson-Dream Theater-Beatles***
>* Mike Weintraub, aka Jvi on IRC              "Courageous convictions *
>* mweintr@american.edu                         will drag the dream    *
>* jedi@wave.cerf.net                           into existence"        *
>* The American University, Washington DC        - Rush (NOT Limbaugh) *
>***Go Philadelphia Flyers, Vancouver Canucks & Philadelphia Phillies***
John E. Runski
<jer108@psuvm>
From: mtjensen@nbivax.nbi.dk
Subject: Re: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)...
Reply-To: mtjensen
Organization: Niels Bohr Institute and Nordita, Copenhagen
Lines: 56
In article <C4zCII.Ftn@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, smale@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (Bryan Smale) writes:
>
> I was thinking about who on each of the teams were the MVPs, biggest
> surprises, and biggest disappointments this year. Now, these are just
> my observations and are admittedly lacking because I have not had an
> opportunity to see all the teams the same amount. Anyway....
>
> MVP = most valuable player to his team both in terms of points and
>       in terms of leadership ("can't win without him")
>
> Biggest surprise = the player who rose above expectation -- the player
>       that may have raised the level of his game to a new height, even
>       if that new level doesn't necessarily warrant an allstar berth
>       (includes those players who at the outset of the season, may not
>       even have been in the team's plans).
>
> Biggest disappointment = the player from whom we expected more (e.g., I
>       picked Denis Savard in Montreal because with the new emphasis on
>       offence brought by Demers, shouldn't Savard have done better?)
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>                         Team           Biggest       Biggest
> Team:                   MVP:          Surprise:    Disappointment:
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Boston Bruins           Oates          D.Sweeney     Wesley
> Buffalo Sabres          Lafontaine     Mogilny       Audette (jinx?)
> Calgary Flames          Roberts        Reichel       Petit
> Chicago Blackhawks      Roenick        Ruuttu        Goulet
> Detroit Red Wings       Yzerman        Chaisson      Kozlov
> Edmonton Oilers         Manson         Buchberger    Mellanby
> Hartford Whalers        Sanderson      Cassells      Corriveau
> Los Angeles Kings       Robitaille     Donnelly      Hrudey
> Minnesota North Stars   Modano      Tinordi(not expected back)  Broten
> Montreal Canadiens      Muller         Lebeau        Savard
> New Jersey Devils       Stevens        Semak         MacLean
> New York Islanders      Turgeon        King(finally) Marois
> New York Rangers        Messier        Kovalev       Bourque
> Ottawa Senators         MacIver        Baker         Jelinek
> Philadelphia Flyers     Lindros/Recchi Fedyk/Galley  Eklund
> Pittsburgh Penguins     Lemieux        Tocchet(even for him)  Jagr
> Quebec Nordiques        Sakic/Ricci    Kovalenko     Pearson
> San Jose Sharks         Kisio          Gaudreau      Maley
> St Louis Blues          Shanahan       C.Joseph      Ron Sutter
> Tampa Bay Lightening    Bradley        Bradley       Creighton/Kasper
> Toronto Maple Leafs     Gilmour        Potvin        Ellett/Anderson
> Vancouver Canucks       Bure           Nedved(finally)    Momesso
> Washington Capitals     Hatcher        Bondra/Cote   Elynuik
> Winnipeg Jets           Selanne        Selanne       Druce
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> As I mentioned up top, these are my *impressions* from where I sit. I
> would welcome any opinions from those fans nearer their teams (in other
> words, *anywhere* away from a Toronto newspaper!)
>
> Bryan
From: tervio@katk.Helsinki.FI (TERVI| MARKO J)
Subject: Realignment in 2000
Organization: University of Helsinki, Computing Centre
Lines: 43
Well, here it is, NHL in the year 2000.
I got these from a very reliable source in a dream some years ago and
although I initially thought I had just been taking too many too strong
drugs now it seems the realization has really begun...  You can see the
league has already started to move to this direction.
*The Walt Disney Conference*
Anaheim Mighty Chipmunks    -Franchise name to be changed after each new
LA Kings                      hockey movie
LA Flames                   -We've seen some of that
San Jose Sharks
San Diego Bruins
Tijuana Red Wings   -Detroit's hockey team will follow its car industry...
Dallas Stars
Houston Oilers
Texas Rangers
Seattle Canucks
*The Norm Green Conference*
Alabama White Hawks
Biloxi Blues
Tampa Bay Lightning
Miami Blades
Helsinki Jets        -You've heard them starting getting used to the anthem
Montreal Quebecois (sp?)                 -There will be no 'Canada'
Atlanta Devils
Orlando Penquins
Key West Islanders
Hartford Whalers                        The Whalers will never move, huh?
Palm Beach Capitals
Now that the Anahaim team is becomming real I'm really beginning to believe
the rest of the 'message'.  I'm sure the future will turn you into believers
too.  After 2000 the NHL will abandond ice-rinks.  It's so expensive to cool
down the rinks in the subtropics and the locals hardly know what ice is
anyway.  NHL will become a roller skating hockey league.  That way it can
create more public interest in the game when local supporteres can play the
game in their back yards !
I hope I'm just out of my mind.
There won't REALLY be a Disney team in Anaheim, will there?
The Stars aren't REALLY moving...
From: etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson)
Subject: NHL Swedes: Stats, April 5
Organization: Ericsson Telecom, Stockholm, Sweden
Lines: 141
Nntp-Posting-Host: uipc104.ericsson.se
Scoring stats for the Swedish NHL players, April 5:
===================================================
Mats Sundin watch:
Most points during a season:
131  Kent Nilsson, Calgary Flames       1980-81  (49+82)
110  Mats Naslund, Montreal Canadiens   1985-86  (43+67)
* 109  Mats Sundin, Quebec Nordiques      1992-93  (43+66)
106  Hakan Loob, Calgary Flames         1987-88  (50+56)
104  Kent Nilsson, Calgary Flames       1982-83  (46+58)
99  Kent Nilsson, Calgary Flames       1984-85  (37+62)
Most goals during a season:
50  Hakan Loob, Calgary Flames         1987-88
49  Kent Nilsson, Calgary Flames       1980-81
46  Kent Nilsson, Calgary Flames       1982-83
45  Tomas Sandstrom, LA Kings          1990-91
43  Mats Naslund, Montreal Canadiens   1985-86
*  43  Mats Sundin, Quebec Nordiques      1992-93
Most assists during a season:
82  Kent Nilsson, Calgary Flames       1980-81
67  Mats Naslund, Montreal Canadiens   1985-86
66  Borje Salming, Toronto Maple Leafs 1976-77
*  66  Mats Sundin, Quebec Nordiques      1992-93
62  Kent Nilsson, Calgary Flames       1984-85
61  Borje Salming, Toronto Maple Leafs 1977-78
61  Thomas Steen, Winnipeg Jets        1988-89
Ulf Samuelsson watch:
Most penalty minutes during a season:
*  243  Ulf Samuelsson, Pittsburgh Penguins   1992-93   (through 3/25)
211  Ulf Samuelsson, Pittsburgh Penguins   1990-91
206  Ulf Samuelsson, Pittsburgh Penguins   1991-92
184  Kjell Samuelsson, Philadelphia Flyers 1988-89
181  Ulf Samuelsson, Hartford Whalers      1988-89
174  Ulf Samuelsson, Hartford Whalers      1985-86
170  Borje Salming, Toronto Maple Leafs    1980-81
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RL Rk Name             Team J# Ps Ht   Wt  Born      G  A  Pts  PL  Comment
-- -- ---------------- ---- -- -- ---  --- --------  -- -- ---  --  -------
1 Mats Sundin       QUE 13 C  6-2  189  2/13/71  43 66 109   7
2 Ulf Dahlen        MIN 22 RW 6-2  195  1/12/67  33 38  71   5
3 Thomas Steen      WIN 25 C  5-10 195  6/ 8/60  21 43  64   5
4 Johan Garpenlov   SJS 10 LW 5-11 185  3/21/68  21 40  61   5
5 Fredrik Olausson  WIN  4 D  6-2  200 10/ 5/66  13 38  51   4
6 Tomas Sandstrom   LAK  7 LW 6-2  207  9/ 4/64  22 24  46   2
7 Per-Erik Eklund   PHI  9 LW 5-10 175  3/22/63   8 34  42      Injured
8 Calle Johansson   WAS  6 D  5-11 205  2/14/67   6 35  41   1
9 Nicklas Lidstrom  DET  5 D  6-2  180  4/28/70   7 33  40   2
10 Tommy Sjodin      MIN 33 D  5-11 190  8/13/65   7 29  36
11 Ulf Samuelsson    PIT  5 D  6-1  195  3/26/64   2 24  26   1
12 Mikael Andersson  TBL 34 LW 5-11 185  5/10/66  13 11  24   1
13 Michael Nylander  HFD 36 LW 5-11 176 10/ 3/72   5 16  21   2
14 Roger Johansson   CGY 34 D  6-1  185  4/ 7/67   4 15  19   1
15 Jan Erixon        NYR 20 LW 6-0  196  7/ 8/62   5 10  15
16 Peter Andersson   NYR 25 D  6-0  187  8/29/65   4  7  11   1
17 Kjell Samuelsson  PIT 28 D  6-6  235 10/18/58   3  6   9   2
18 Tommy Albelin     NJD  6 D  6-1  190  5/21/64   1  5   6
19 Per Djoos         NYR 44 D  5-11 176  5/11/68   1  1   2      Binghampton?
20 Niclas Andersson  QUE 46 LW 5-8  169  5/20/71   0  1   1      Halifax
21 Thomas Forslund   CGY 27 LW 6-0  185 11/24/68   0  1   1      Salt Lake
22 Patrik Carnback   MON 20 LW 6-0  189  2/ 1/68   0  0   0      Injured
23 Patrik Kjellberg  MON 27 LW 6-2  196  6/17/69   0  0   0      Fredericton
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RL=Rank Last week, Rk=Rank, J#=Jersey Number, Ps=Position, Born (mm/dd/yy)
G=Goals, A=Assists, Pts=Points, PL=Points scored since Last posted list
===============================================================================
Goalie stats:
Name             Team J# Ps Ht   Wt  Born
---------------- ---- -- -- ---  --- --------
Tommy Soderstrom  PHI 30 G  5-9  163  7/17/69
/ - - - - -  T  O  T  A  L  - - - - - \
mm/dd   vs   res  r  w/l/t  sh - sv   GP   MP  GA  GAA    SOG   SV  SV%   SO A
-----  ---- ----  -  -----  --   --   --   --  --  ---    ---  ---  ---   -- --
12/17   PIT  4-5  L  0-1-0  27 - 22    1   62   5  4.84    27   22  0.815
12/19   CHI  3-1  W  1-1-0  28 - 27    2  122   6  2.95    55   49  0.891
12/20  @TBL  1-4  L  1-2-0  31 - 27    3  182  10  3.30    86   76  0.884
12/23   PIT  0-4  L  1-3-0  26 - 22    4  242  14  3.47   112   98  0.875
12/26  @WAS  5-5  T  1-3-1  41 - 36    5  307  19  3.71   153  134  0.876
12/29  @LAK 10-2  W  2-3-1  43 - 41    6  367  21  3.43   196  175  0.893
12/30  @SJS  6-2  W  3-3-1  35 - 33    7  427  23  3.23   231  208  0.900
1/ 2  @CGY  3-7  L  3-4-1  32 - 26    8  486  29  3.58   263  234  0.890
1/ 3  @EDM  2-2  T  3-4-2  33 - 31    9  551  31  3.38   296  265  0.895
1/ 7   WAS  8-2  W  4-4-2  33 - 31   10  611  33  3.24   329  296  0.900
1/ 9   NYR  4-3  W  5-4-2  26 - 23   11  671  36  3.22   355  319  0.899
1/10   EDM  4-0  W  6-4-2  29 - 29   12  731  36  2.95   384  348  0.906  1
1/14   CGY  4-4  T  6-4-3  27 - 23   13  796  40  3.02   411  371  0.903
1/16  @BOS  5-4  W  7-4-3  37 - 33   14  856  44  3.08   448  404  0.902
1/17   DET  4-7  L  7-5-3  36 - 29   15  916  51  3.34   484  433  0.895
1/21   BOS  4-5  L  7-6-3  32 - 27   16  976  56  3.44   516  460  0.891
1/23  @NYI  4-8  L  7-7-3  31 - 23   17 1036  64  3.71   547  483  0.883    1
1/24   HFD  5-4  W  8-7-3  25 - 21   18 1098  68  3.72   572  504  0.881
1/30  @PIT  2-4  L  8-8-3  35 - 32   19 1157  71  3.68   607  536  0.883
2/ 3  @NYR  2-2  T  8-8-4  38 - 36   20 1222  73  3.58   645  572  0.887
2/ 9   OTT  8-1  W  9-8-4  28 - 27   21 1282  74  3.46   673  599  0.890
2/11   MTL  0-0  T  9-8-5  23 - 23   22 1347  74  3.30   696  622  0.894  2
2/13  @NJD  4-6  L  9-9-5  32 - 26   23 1407  80  3.41   728  648  0.890
2/14   NJD  2-5  L  9-10-5 26 - 21   24 1467  85  3.48   754  669  0.887
2/16  @CGY  4-4  T  9-10-6 29 - 29   25 1512  85  3.37   783  698  0.891
2/18  @VAN  3-2  W 10-10-6 30 - 28   26 1572  87  3.32   813  726  0.893
2/20  @MIN  2-5  L 10-11-6 33 - 28   27 1632  92  3.38   846  754  0.891
2/22   DET  5-5  - 10-11-6 15 - 12   28 1653  95  3.45   861  766  0.890
3/ 2   PIT  5-4  W 11-11-6 22 - 21   29 1689  96  3.41   883  787  0.891
3/ 5  @WAS  3-0  W 12-11-6 36 - 36   30 1749  96  3.29   919  823  0.896  3
3/ 7  @NJD  4-7  L 12-12-6 41 - 35   31 1808 102  3.38   960  858  0.894
3/ 9  @NYI  2-4  L 12-13-6 24 - 21   32 1867 105  3.37   984  879  0.893
3/11   WAS  6-4  W 13-13-6 28 - 24   33 1927 109  3.39  1012  903  0.892
3/16   MIN  4-3  W 14-13-6 34 - 31   34 1987 112  3.38  1046  934  0.893
3/20  @PIT  3-9  L 14-14-6 27 - 20   35 2027 119  3.52  1073  954  0.889
3/21   NJD  2-3  L 14-15-6 27 - 24   36 2086 122  3.51  1100  978  0.889
3/24  @NYR  5-4  W 15-15-6 45 - 41   37 2146 126  3.52  1145 1019  0.890    2
3/27  @QUE  3-8  L 15-16-6 25 - 19   38 2186 132  3.62  1170 1038  0.887
4/ 1   LAK  1-3  L 15-17-6 26 - 23   39 2246 135  3.61  1196 1061  0.887
4/ 4   TOR  4-0  W 16-17-6 26 - 26   40 2306 135  3.51  1222 1087  0.890  4
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
res=result, sh=shots, sv=saves
GP=Games Played, MP=Minutes Played, GA=Goals Against, GAA=Goals Against Average
SOG=Shots On Goal, SV=SaVes, SV%=SaVing Percentage, SO=ShutOuts, A=Assists
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Staffan
--
((\\  //| Staffan Axelsson
\\  //|| etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se
\\_))//-|| r.s.h. contact for Swedish hockey
From: wsa@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Warren S. Arbogast)
Subject: Re: Spelling Error on the Stanley Cup??
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 24
r_turgeo@oz.plymouth.edu  writes:
>   I was reading a newspaper tidbit that mentioned that there is a
> grammatical error on the Stanley Cup. This newspaper, "The
> Union Leader"  (Manchester, New Hampshire), stated that one of the
> years that the New York Islanders won the cup, the printing on the
> actual cup stated "New York Ilanders". Can anyone verify this?? I
> forgot the exact year that this supposedly occured. Any die-hard
> Islander fans know about this?? The reason why I am asking is
> because the paper is not very reliable, we call it "The Union
> Mis-leader".
>
>
> Randy
> Plymouth State College
> r_turgeo@oz.plymouth.edu
Speaking of spelling errors on the Cup, I wonder if the "h" in
Pittsburgh made it to the Cup.  You know how funny people can
be about spelling Pittsburgh.
--
Warren Arbogast
Darden Visual Communications          "with 10 miles behind them
University of Virginia                            and 10,000 more to go"
From: euatno@eua.ericsson.se (Tomas Nopp)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
Nntp-Posting-Host: euas27c42.eua.ericsson.se
Nntp-Posting-User: euatno
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Lines: 78
rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>   Ten years ago, the number of Europeans in the NHL was roughly a quarter
>of what it is now. Going into the 1992/93 season, the numbers of Euros on
>NHL teams have escalated to the following stats:
>Canadians: 400
>Americans: 100
>Europeans: 100
>   Please note that these numbers are rounded off, and taken from the top
>25 players on each of the 24 teams. My source is the Vancouver Sun.
>   Here's the point: there are far too many Europeans in the NHL. I am sick
>of watching a game between an American and a Canadian team (let's say, the
>Red Wings and the Canucks) and seeing names like "Bure" "Konstantinov" and
>"Borshevshky". Is this North America or isn't it? Toronto, Detriot, Quebec,
>and Edmonton are particularly annoying, but the numbers of Euros on other
>teams is getting worse as well.
Is the answer as simple as that you dislike russians???
>    I live in Vancouver and if I hear one more word about "Pavel Bure, the
>Russian Rocket" I will completely throw up. As it is now, every time I see
>the Canucks play I keep hoping someone will cross-check Bure into the
>plexiglass so hard they have to carry him out on a stretcher. (By the way,
>I'm not a Canucks fan to begin with ;-).
>Okay, the stretcher remark was a little carried away. But the point is that
>I resent NHL owners drafting all these Europeans INSTEAD of Canadians (and
>some Americans). It denies young Canadians the opportunity to play in THEIR
>NORTH AMERICAN LEAGUE and instead gives it to Europeans, who aren't even
>better hockey players. It's all hype. This "European mystique" is sickening,
>but until NHL owners get over it, Canadian and American players will continue
>to have to fight harder to get drafted into their own league.
>    With the numbers of Euros in the NHL escalating, the problem is clearly
>only getting worse.
And where would canadian hockey be today without the europeans?? Dont say
that the european influence on the league has been all bad for the game.
I mean, look at the way you play these days. Less fights and more hockey.
Imho, canadian hockey has had a positive curve of development since the
70's when the game was more brute than beauty......
>    I'm all for the creation of a European Hockey League, and let the Bures
>and Selannes of the world play on their own continent.
Oh, look!! You don't like Finns either....
>    I just don't want them on mine.
Too bad almost all of you northamericans originates from europe.....
Hmmm... And what kind of a name is Rauser. Doesn't sound very "canadian" to
me. ;-)
PS. When analyzing teams like Italy, France and Great Britain you find that
a lot of their players are "Canadians" with double citizenship... DS
>
>
>--
>Richard J. Rauser        "You have no idea what you're doing."
>rauser@sfu.ca            "Oh, don't worry about that. We're professional
>WNI                          outlaws - we do this for a living."
>-----------------
>"Remember, no matter where you go, there you are." -Dr.Banzai
_________________       __________
/         _  ,     /l /
_/__()_/))_(/_/)_  _/ L/_()_/)_/)_
/  /
********************************************************************
* Tomas Nopp                    Tel   : +46 8 727 33 24            *
* Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs Fax   : +46 8 647 80 59            *
* Box 1505                      Email : Tomas.Nopp@eua.ericsson.se *
* S-125 25 ALVSJO       <------ Snailmail                          *
********************************************************************
From: westerhold@batgirl.rtp.dg.com ()
Subject: wanted: mail order hockey equipment
Distribution: usa
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC.
Lines: 11
Could anyone recommend a mail order distributor for
hockey equipment.
Thanks in Advance
Wayne
--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
<  Wayne E. Westerhold                    wester@dg-rtp.dg.com             >
<  Data General Corporation               Research Triangle Park, NC       >
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
Article-I.D.: alchemy.1993Apr6.141557.8864
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 77
In article <rauser.734062608@sfu.ca> rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>   Ten years ago, the number of Europeans in the NHL was roughly a quarter
>of what it is now. Going into the 1992/93 season, the numbers of Euros on
>NHL teams have escalated to the following stats:
>
>Canadians: 400
>Americans: 100
>Europeans: 100
>
>   Please note that these numbers are rounded off, and taken from the top
>25 players on each of the 24 teams. My source is the Vancouver Sun.
>
>   Here's the point: there are far too many Europeans in the NHL. I am sick
>of watching a game between an American and a Canadian team (let's say, the
>Red Wings and the Canucks) and seeing names like "Bure" "Konstantinov" and
>"Borshevshky". Is this North America or isn't it? Toronto, Detriot, Quebec,
>and Edmonton are particularly annoying, but the numbers of Euros on other
>teams is getting worse as well.
>
From where I come from in Canada, Borshevsky sounds more Canadian than
Smith! -)
Anyways, crawl back into the hole you crawled out of...the NBA doesn't
care where they get basketball players from, major league baseball
doesn't give a damn where they get baseball players from (except Cuba,
that is).
Canada is in no imminent danger of being overtaken as the primary
supplier of players...Sweden, Finland, the Czech Republic, and Slovakia
are all relatively small countries, and cannot really produce players
at a greater rate than they are already producing them, and the
potential influx from the former Soviet Union is severely blunted
because the system has been raided and is starved for finances and
will take a decade or two, to recover and become a real threat, and
the US will just maintain its slow increase.  Canada should continue
to supply 60% plus of the top hockey players in the world for the
forseeable future.
Besides we need the European hockey market if hockey is to take
its rightful place besides soccer as the two predominant world
sports...and since soccer is essentially boring, unlike hockey.
>    I live in Vancouver and if I hear one more word about "Pavel Bure, the
>Russian Rocket" I will completely throw up. As it is now, every time I see
>the Canucks play I keep hoping someone will cross-check Bure into the plexiglassso hard they have to carry him out on a stretcher. (By the way, I'm not a
>Canucks fan to begin with ;-).
>
>    Okay, the stretcher remark was a little carried away. But the point is that
>I resent NHL owners drafting all these Europeans INSTEAD of Canadians (and
>some Americans). It denies young Canadians the opportunity to play in THEIR
>NORTH AMERICAN LEAGUE and instead gives it to Europeans, who aren't even
>better hockey players. It's all hype. This "European mystique" is sickening,
>but until NHL owners get over it, Canadian and American players will continue
>to have to fight harder to get drafted into their own league.
>
>    With the numbers of Euros in the NHL escalating, the problem is clearly
>only getting worse.
>
Canadians are under no threat...the European numbers will soon saturate,
if they haven't already...and by the time Russia comes online again,
the NHL should be a world league, and there will be many more teams
to stock and many more jobs for Canadian hockey players.  In the near
team, the percentage of Canadians will mostly decline because of
Americans, not because of Europeans.
>    I'm all for the creation of a European Hockey League, and let the Bures
>and Selannes of the world play on their own continent.
>
>    I just don't want them on mine.
>
Crawl into a hole and die...
Gerald
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
Article-I.D.: alchemy.1993Apr6.142037.9246
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 14
In article <1993Apr6.044323.22829@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> daniell@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel Lyddy) writes:
>
>You know, you're absolutely right.  I think we should round up all those
>players of European descent and ship 'em back to where they came from.  Let's
>see, with whom should we start?  I dunno, Lemieux?  Hmmm...sounds like he
>has *French* blood in him!!!  Hey!  France is part of Europe!  Send that
>Euro-blooded boy back!!!
>
Don't you Americans study history...the French settled in North America
as early or before the British...Lemieux can probably trace back his
North American heritage back a lot further than most of us.
Gerald
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Lindros will be traded!!!
Article-I.D.: alchemy.1993Apr6.142415.9567
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 14
In article <1993Apr5.163209.576@r-node.hub.org> shadow@r-node.hub.org (Jay Chu) writes:
>True rumor.  Fact!  A big three way deal!
>
>Eric Lindros going to Ottawa Senators.  And Senators get $15mill from
>Montreal.
>
>Montreal gets Alexander Daigle (the first round pick from Senators)
>
>Philly gets Damphousse, Bellow, Patrick Roy and a draft pick.
>
Another person incapable of rational thought!
Gerald
From: lli+@cs.cmu.edu (Lori Iannamico)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
Nntp-Posting-Host: lli.mach.cs.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Lines: 26
In article <rauser.734062608@sfu.ca> rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>
>
>   Ten years ago, the number of Europeans in the NHL was roughly a quarter
>of what it is now. Going into the 1992/93 season, the numbers of Euros on
>NHL teams have escalated to the following stats:
>
>Canadians: 400
>Americans: 100
>Europeans: 100
Xenophobic trash deleted.
>    I'm all for the creation of a European Hockey League, and let the Bures
>and Selannes of the world play on their own continent.
>
>    I just don't want them on mine.
If you're going to go to those extremes, I guess you'd better start
packing.  Because unless you're a Native North American, this isn't
your continent either.
Lori
From: c5ff@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (COOK  Charlie)
Subject: NHL Summary parse results for games played Mon, April 5, 1993
Article-I.D.: jupiter.1993Apr6.131610.17465
Organization: University of New Brunswick
Lines: 39
Hartford                         1 1 3--5
NY Rangers                       1 2 1--4
First period
1, Hartford, Cunneyworth 5 (Janssens, Greig) 12:21.
2, NY Rangers, Graves 34 (Turcotte, Zubov) 18:39.
Second period
3, NY Rangers, Kovalev 19 (Turcotte, Graves) 2:12.
4, Hartford, Sanderson 44 (Cassels) pp, 4:54.
5, NY Rangers, Amonte 30 (Andersson, Vanbiesbrouck) pp, 19:13.
Third period
6, NY Rangers, M.Messier 25 (Amonte, Andersson) 2:26.
7, Hartford, Sanderson 45 (Cassels) sh, 5:23.
8, Hartford, Nylander 6 (Ladouceur) 8:35.
9, Hartford, Verbeek 36 (Zalapski) 17:43.
Hartford: 5    Power play: 4-1   Special goals:  pp: 1  sh: 1  Total: 2
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Cassels            0    2    2
Cunneyworth        1    0    1
Greig              0    1    1
Janssens           0    1    1
Ladouceur          0    1    1
Nylander           1    0    1
Sanderson          2    0    2
Verbeek            1    0    1
Zalapski           0    1    1
NY Rangers: 4    Power play: 4-1
Scorer            G    A   Pts
---------------  ---  ---  ---
Amonte             1    1    2
Andersson          0    2    2
Graves             1    1    2
Kovalev            1    0    1
Messier M          1    0    1
Turcotte           0    2    2
Vanbiesbrouck      0    1    1
Zubov              0    1    1
From: damelio@progress.COM (Stephen D'Amelio)
Subject: Re: What was Ray doing?
Nntp-Posting-Host: elba
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Lines: 22
daveb@thewho.East.Sun.COM (Dave Brewer) writes:
>In yesterday's fracus between Rob Ray and Brent Hughes, was it the camera angle or was
>Ray actually punching Hughes where it appeared he was punching him? (For those that didn't
>see the game - it was several inches below the belt and he punched him there quite a few
>times.) Dreadful.
>Also, why did Poulin get four minutes?
I've been watching & playing hockey for a good long time now, and
I've seen players with questionable tactics, but never have I seen
what Ray did on Sunday. This guy gets my all time loser award. It's
one thing to repeatedly cross check someone to the back of the neck
when they are down, it's another thing to have a fist fight with
someones balls. Ray should be thrown out of the league, what an
a**hole.
-Steve
From: bks2@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (bryan.k.strouse)
Subject: NHL RESULTS FOR GAMES PLAYED 4-05-93
Organization: AT&T
Keywords: monday night's boxscore
Lines: 55
NHL RESULTS FOR GAMES PLAYED 4/05/93.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STANDINGS
PATRICK              ADAMS              NORRIS              SMYTHE
TM    W  L  T  PT   TM    W  L  T  PT   TM    W  L  T  PT   TM    W  L  T  PT
xPIT  53 21  6 112  yMON  47 27  6 100  yDET  44 28  9  97  yVAN  42 28  9  93
WAS  40 31  7  87  yBOS  46 26  7  99  yCHI  43 25 11  97  yCAL  40 29 10  90
NJ   38 35  6  82  yQUE  44 25 10  98  yTOR  42 26 11  95  yLA   37 33  9  83
NYI  37 34  6  80  yBUF  38 31 10  86   STL  35 34 10  80  yWIN  37 35  7  81
NYR  34 33 11  79   HAR  24 49  5  53   MIN  34 35 10  78   EDM  26 45  8  60
PHL  30 37 11  71   OTT   9 66  4  22   TB   22 51  5  49   SJ   10 68  2  22
x - Clinched Division Title
y - Clinched Playoff Berth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hartford Whalers   (24-49-5)   1   1   3   -   5
New York Rangers  (34-33-11)   1   2   1   -   4
1st period: HAR, Cunneyworth 5 - (Janssens, Greig) 12:21
NYR, Graves 34 - (Turcotte, Zubov) 18:39
2nd period: NYR, Kovalev 19 - (Turcotte, Graves) 2:12
HAR, Sanderson 44 - (Cassels) (pp) 4:54
NYR, Amonte 30 - (Andersson, Vanbiesbrouck) (pp) 19:13
3rd period: NYR, M.Messier 25 - (Amonte, Andersson) 2:26
HAR, Sanderson 45 - (Cassels) (sh) 5:23
HAR, Nylanders 6 - (Ladouceur) 8:35
HAR, Verbeek 36 - (Zalapski) 17:43
Powerplay Opportunities-Whalers 1 of 4
Rangers 1 of 4
Shots on Goal-	Whalers   7   8   8  -  23
Rangers   9  10  12  -  31
Hartford Whalers--Gosselin (4-7-1) (31 shots - 27 saves)
New York Rangers--Vanbiesbrouck (20-18-7) (23 shots - 18 saves)
ATT-17,806
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\|||||/
-SPIKE-
From: andrew@idacom.hp.com (Andrew Scott)
Subject: USENET Hockey Draft week 26 standings
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, IDACOM Telecommunications Division
Lines: 279
Here are the standings after the April 6 update.  I'll be leaving for Japan
in 1.5 hours, and I won't be back until April 17.  Consequently, I will not
post  the week 27 results until April 18.  Email sent between April 13 and
April 18 will be processed using the numbers available April 18.
- Andrew
USENET Hockey Draft Standings
Week 26
Posn	Team				Pts	Proj	Cash	Last Posn
1.	Dave Wessels                    1478	1575.3	1.9	(1)
2.	Gilles Carmel                   1389	1533.8	56.3	(5)
3.	Bob Hill                        1418	1530.8	24.0	(2)
4.	The Awesome Oilers              1366	1509.9	68.6	(3)
5.	Seppo Kemppainen                1372	1508.9	47.2	(6)
6.	Mak "The Knife" Paranjape       1376	1501.8	31.0	(4)
7.	Hillside Raiders                1397	1490.7	7.0	(7)
8.	Jan Stein                       1354	1478.8	35.3	(9)
9.	Rangers Of Destiny              1346	1472.5	42.0	(10)
10.	this years model                1368	1471.8	17.6	(8)
11.	Tapio Repo                      1354	1461.0	19.6	(12)
12.	FRANK'S BIG FISH                1341	1448.3	22.0	(14)
13.	The Underachievers              1309	1446.5	65.4	(16)
14.	On Thin Ice                     1333	1445.5	32.3	(11)
15.	Lindros Losers                  1349	1436.9	1.7	(13)
16.	littlest giants                 1319	1435.7	35.6	(15)
17.	Go Flames                       1290	1422.6	64.4	(17)
18.	Mopar Muscle Men                1328	1411.7	3.7	(19)
19.	DIE Penguin Bandwaggoners       1304	1409.7	20.2	(18)
20.	Samuel Lau (Calgary, Alberta)   1298	1383.2	4.9	(21)
21.	General Accounting Office       1272	1373.8	20.9	(22)
22.	Migods Menschen                 1259	1367.0	31.6	(20)
23.	Boomer's Boys                   1285	1366.1	0.2	(23)
24.	Delaware Wombats                1285	1356.2	1.3	(24)
25.	Wellsy's Buttheads DEC NH       1223	1354.4	52.6	(27)
26.	Rocky Mountain High             1270	1349.3	1.8	(29)
27.	Fife Flyers                     1232	1346.3	31.4	(26)
28.	Gerald Olchowy                  1231	1343.0	33.7	(25)
29.	Fluide Glacial                  1246	1338.5	18.0	(28)
30.	Gaoler                          1227	1318.3	11.2	(30)
31.	SmegHeads                       1238	1313.0	0.3	(32)
32.	The Young And The Skateless     1185	1299.7	42.9	(31)
33.	Artic Storm                     1179	1291.8	39.3	(43)
34.	Sam & His Dogs                  1206	1289.0	11.6	(33)
35.	Neural Netters                  1199	1287.9	11.3	(35)
36.	Youngbucs                       1157	1286.6	101.7	(34)
37.	Soft Swedes                     1154	1275.3	46.9	(58)
38.	Jeff Horvath                    1188	1262.7	5.6	(39)
39.	Yan The Man Loke                1180	1261.3	0.7	(40)
40.	Milton Keynes Kings             1180	1259.6	2.8	(42)
41.	Hamster from Hoboken            1178	1257.5	8.7	(36)
42.	Le Fleur de Lys                 1159	1257.3	25.3	(46)
43.	ice legion                      1157	1256.6	28.8	(37)
44.	Simmonac                        1133	1254.4	87.6	(44)
45.	Kuehn Crushers                  1137	1253.1	45.1	(72)
46.	The Finnish Force               1149	1249.4	22.5	(48)
47.	Streaks                         1117	1247.1	54.8	(38)
48.	Legion of Hoth                  1156	1246.3	15.8	(52)
49.	Goaldingers                     1146	1240.6	22.0	(45)
50.	Grant Marven                    1155	1236.0	2.9	(50)
51.	bemybaby                        1161	1235.2	7.3	(49)
52.	T C OverAchievers               1162	1232.8	2.9	(47)
53.	Skriko Wolves                   1151	1232.4	5.4	(53)
54.	Bozrah Bruins                   1117	1230.7	45.2	(41)
55.	Brian Bergman                   1132	1229.3	23.3	(51)
56.	LIPPE                           1132	1214.7	13.9	(65)
57.	Randy Coulman                   1140	1214.5	5.2	(56)
58.	LAMP LIGHTERS                   1138	1214.2	5.9	(66)
59.	Dave Snell                      1089	1212.5	182.5	(60)
60.	Steven And Mark Dream Team      1133	1210.6	3.1	(53)
61.	Houdini's Magicians             1126	1209.9	18.3	(59)
62.	Real Bad Toe Jam                1096	1208.6	48.9	(63)
63.	rec.sport.hockey choices        1137	1208.3	1.3	(63)
64.	Iowa Hockeyes                   1118	1205.7	16.3	(55)
65.	buffalo soldiers                1085	1204.6	62.1	(57)
66.	Indianapolis Bennies            1114	1200.6	20.8	(67)
67.	Bloom County All Stars          1121	1199.2	4.3	(61)
68.	Tom                             1109	1194.0	13.1	(68)
69.	Phil and Kev's Karma Dudes      1121	1192.6	0.8	(69)
70.	AIK Exiles                      1078	1188.1	34.5	(70)
71.	Doug Bowles                     1099	1186.4	20.0	(62)
72.	Bruins                          1117	1184.9	0.1	(75)
73.	smithw                          1095	1184.3	21.0	(71)
74.	The Great Pumpkin               1057	1178.6	54.4	(73)
75.	shooting seamen                 1111	1177.8	0.1	(77)
76.	Frank Worthless                 1099	1176.6	6.3	(82)
77.	NON!                            1089	1175.7	16.4	(74)
78.	Invisible Inc                   1104	1173.5	1.1	(79)
79.	Brad Gibson                     1075	1169.0	27.2	(89)
80.	Chubby Checkers                 1074	1165.6	16.3	(85)
81.	PLP Fools                       1092	1164.8	0.1	(76)
82.	John Zupancic                   1063	1164.2	27.1	(78)
83.	Staffan Axelsson                1082	1163.0	15.1	(80)
84.	David Wong                      1038	1162.5	66.1	(87)
85.	Kortelaisen Kovat               1041	1160.7	164.1	(92)
86.	Chocolate Rockets               1083	1158.9	2.5	(83)
87.	Ken DeCruyenaere                1078	1158.8	5.0	(94)
88.	Cougarmania                     1061	1154.7	24.8	(86)
89.	garryola                        1073	1152.9	9.7	(81)
90.	Derrill's Dastardly Dozen       1062	1149.6	22.1	(88)
91.	No Namers                       1033	1147.6	58.2	(91)
92.	The Campi Machine               1022	1145.8	65.3	(90)
93.	Gary Bergman Fan Club           1071	1145.1	5.1	(98)
94.	Fisher Dirtbags                 1073	1144.1	0.7	(93)
95.	KODIAKS                         1076	1141.0	1.3	(84)
96.	Arsenal Maple Leafs             1066	1136.0	3.8	(99)
97.	The Kamucks                     1020	1134.1	76.1	(105)
98.	BSC Oranienburg                 1067	1132.1	7.1	(102)
99.	Bloodgamers                     1018	1127.1	42.1	(97)
100.	Ellis Islanders                 1055	1125.5	7.6	(100)
101.	Mombasa Mosquitos               1053	1125.4	6.1	(95)
102.	Edelweiss                       1049	1122.8	2.9	(101)
103.	Zachmans Wingers                1006	1117.7	49.8	(103)
104.	Wormtown Woosbags               1001	1114.6	72.6	(96)
105.	Dirty White Socks               1008	1113.6	43.4	(106)
106.	Hurricane Andrew                1040	1113.5	7.6	(104)
107.	Larry                           1034	1113.2	11.8	(109)
108.	VoteNoOct26                     1010	1108.5	31.8	(108)
Bruce's Rented Mules            1033	1108.5	11.9	(110)
110.	King Suke                       1042	1108.2	0.1	(112)
111.	Teem Kanada                     1030	1105.3	16.0	(115)
112.	Bjoern Leaguen                  987	1104.7	61.4	(123)
113.	Frank's Follies                 1020	1101.2	24.2	(117)
114.	Neil Younger                    985	1100.9	77.7	(120)
115.	Het Schot Is Hard               1027	1100.8	18.1	(121)
116.	PSV Dartmouth                   1033	1100.7	7.1	(107)
117.	Pond Slime                      1034	1096.8	0.7	(111)
118.	Stanford Ice Hawks              1008	1096.5	28.2	(114)
119.	SPUDS                           1019	1096.4	12.6	(113)
120.	Mark Sanders                    1020	1091.9	11.1	(116)
121.	Oklahoma Stormchasers           1004	1089.9	28.3	(137)
122.	Timo Ojala                      1015	1084.2	0.3	(130)
123.	Nesbitt                         1025	1083.0	1.1	(118)
124.	Aye Carumba!!!                  1016	1082.4	3.9	(124)
125.	Kokudo Keikaku Bunnies          976	1081.2	40.3	(119)
126.	Blue Talon                      1007	1080.0	13.3	(129)
127.	Apricot Fuzzfaces               1001	1078.3	23.3	(125)
128.	Haral                           1013	1077.8	7.3	(122)
129.	garys team                      995	1076.5	17.1	(126)
130.	Late Night with David Letterman 1013	1075.3	0.0	(133)
131.	Arctic Circles                  974	1075.2	37.6	(132)
132.	The Lost Poots                  1000	1072.9	6.7	(127)
Seattle PFTB                    988	1072.9	22.9	(134)
134.	boutch 92-93                    987	1071.5	20.0	(135)
135.	Dirty Rotten Puckers            1001	1071.2	1.2	(147)
136.	Flying Kiwis                    998	1069.8	9.1	(130)
Cluster Buster                  996	1069.8	7.6	(136)
138.	Scott Glenn                     999	1068.7	10.2	(142)
139.	Dree Hobbs                      988	1068.5	13.4	(146)
140.	GO BRUINS                       999	1066.6	6.2	(144)
141.	Le Groupe MI                    975	1065.4	30.2	(141)
142.	team gold                       992	1065.1	16.7	(128)
143.	Closet Boy's Boys               955	1063.4	48.0	(140)
144.	Gary Bill Pens Dynasty          982	1063.2	19.6	(151)
McKees Rocks Rockers            998	1063.2	5.1	(151)
146.	Tim Rogers                      987	1061.9	8.1	(148)
147.	Andy Y F WONG                   982	1061.1	21.5	(143)
148.	Buttered Waffles                947	1059.6	46.0	(145)
149.	Bob's Blues                     951	1059.2	46.8	(139)
150.	Princeton Canucks               945	1058.9	124.2	(154)
151.	GO HABS GO                      989	1058.7	8.0	(149)
152.	Wembley LostWeekenders          998	1057.6	0.3	(157)
153.	Wild Hearted Sons               993	1057.5	4.9	(138)
154.	Einstein's Rock Band            994	1054.8	0.0	(160)
155.	Tap                             989	1053.0	0.5	(150)
156.	Goddess Of Fermentation         964	1051.0	30.2	(156)
157.	HUNTERS & COLLECTORS            945	1050.6	42.4	(163)
158.	Dr Joel Fleishman               985	1048.7	3.7	(159)
159.	furleys furies                  983	1048.6	3.6	(153)
160.	convex stars                    979	1047.9	5.6	(161)
161.	Les Nordiques                   939	1046.9	60.4	(155)
162.	MY TEAM                         932	1045.3	174.8	(167)
163.	Hubert's Hockey Homeboys        980	1043.9	0.6	(162)
Book 'em Danno's Bushbabies     977	1043.9	10.5	(169)
165.	riding the pine                 956	1038.7	20.7	(158)
166.	Sundogs                         975	1037.1	0.4	(166)
167.	Jeff Nimeroff                   927	1037.0	48.8	(172)
168.	Slap Shot Marco                 930	1036.0	51.8	(164)
169.	Daryl Turner                    976	1035.8	2.4	(179)
170.	The Dreamers                    921	1033.1	63.7	(180)
171.	East City Jokers                919	1031.6	69.1	(173)
172.	Flowers                         921	1031.4	113.6	(168)
173.	Satan's Choice                  961	1030.1	14.5	(171)
174.	The Leafs Rule!!!!              943	1030.0	25.8	(165)
175.	Pierre Mailhot                  969	1029.9	2.6	(174)
176.	voyageurs                       968	1029.4	2.7	(170)
177.	Spinal Tap                      928	1029.1	41.4	(176)
178.	San Jose Mahi Mahi              939	1026.7	31.8	(185)
Stimpy ADG Zeta                 949	1026.7	21.0	(182)
180.	Jeff Bachovchin                 916	1024.7	46.7	(175)
181.	Bulldogs                        941	1024.5	23.4	(184)
182.	LANA Inc                        940	1021.0	27.3	(177)
183.	Big Bad Bruins                  939	1020.6	18.5	(186)
184.	Mike Mac Cormack Sydney NS CAN  904	1019.1	107.2	(183)
185.	Darse Billings                  925	1017.8	34.7	(178)
186.	Chappel's Chumps                934	1017.6	24.0	(181)
187.	JimParker                       903	1014.5	179.0	(192)
188.	Republican Dirty Tricksters     894	1008.0	66.0	(189)
189.	Enforcers                       924	1007.8	28.1	(191)
190.	Absolut Lehigh                  937	1007.7	8.9	(190)
191.	Yellow Plague                   933	1005.0	14.2	(187)
192.	Dr.D And The S.O.D.             929	1003.8	17.1	(198)
193.	Bunch of Misfits                916	1003.3	23.8	(188)
194.	Ninja Turtles                   942	1000.8	1.3	(194)
195.	Great Expectations              934	999.3	2.3	(196)
196.	Cherry Bombers                  939	998.1	1.2	(200)
197.	Henry's Bar B Q                 941	998.0	0.7	(195)
198.	Robyns Team                     907	993.5	30.0	(198)
199.	Team Melville                   891	991.8	46.9	(202)
200.	Umpire 4 life                   919	990.9	11.1	(193)
201.	Acadien                         914	988.9	18.3	(197)
202.	Kaufbeuren Icebreakers          894	988.2	37.6	(207)
203.	Firebirds                       926	986.5	3.9	(201)
204.	Jayson's Kinky Pucks            904	986.1	26.9	(203)
205.	Cobra's Killers                 891	982.5	31.7	(208)
206.	Outlaws                         871	981.6	164.9	(206)
207.	Kuta Papercuts                  912	981.5	18.5	(204)
208.	Killer Apes                     902	979.9	24.3	(205)
209.	DARMAN'S Dragons                896	979.4	28.3	(211)
210.	Roger Smith                     882	978.2	39.6	(212)
211.	Those 1st few weeks hurt!       862	975.1	55.9	(210)
212.	Thundering Herd                 860	972.8	163.6	(218)
213.	IKEA Wholesale                  910	970.2	1.7	(214)
214.	Believe it or dont              895	968.7	21.1	(215)
215.	fred mckim                      861	966.8	93.0	(217)
216.	400 Hurricane                   880	966.4	32.1	(216)
217.	Creeping Death                  886	965.0	21.3	(220)
218.	Knee Injuries                   897	964.9	10.4	(213)
219.	The 200 Club                    902	964.7	6.8	(209)
220.	Crazy Euros                     888	962.1	17.9	(219)
221.	Frack Attack                    875	961.8	27.3	(226)
222.	Todd's Turkeys                  898	957.0	1.9	(229)
223.	Ryan's Renegades                858	956.4	50.9	(225)
224.	Cafall and Crew                 862	955.9	38.3	(222)
225.	pig vomit                       894	955.2	1.3	(227)
226.	Ice Strykers                    848	954.4	105.4	(221)
227.	Fighting Geordies               850	954.1	141.6	(223)
228.	CDN Stuck in Alabama            886	945.7	10.3	(231)
229.	Ship's Way                      884	943.4	8.7	(233)
230.	Swillbellies                    870	942.8	18.7	(228)
231.	Oz                              851	941.8	35.0	(235)
232.	Chris of Death                  835	939.3	83.6	(234)
233.	Banko's Beer Rangers            875	938.6	4.2	(230)
234.	NY Flames                       872	938.1	7.8	(232)
235.	Laubsters II                    828	937.4	201.6	(237)
236.	dayton bomber                   882	935.1	0.0	(241)
237.	Zipper Heads                    847	931.7	33.9	(224)
238.	Ninja Bunnies                   826	928.1	44.9	(236)
239.	Joliet Inmates                  832	926.0	45.8	(239)
240.	Widefield White Wolves          832	924.1	36.9	(242)
241.	Daves Team                      834	920.9	32.0	(238)
242.	Great Scott                     814	917.8	73.3	(240)
243.	South Carolina Tiger Paws       806	915.1	78.4	(243)
244.	SANDY'S SABRES                  854	910.8	4.7	(245)
245.	Florida Tech Burgh Team         809	904.6	49.3	(250)
246.	The Ice Holes                   850	903.9	2.7	(246)
247.	Leos Blue Chips                 845	902.9	10.4	(244)
248.	For xtc                         837	897.8	8.2	(248)
249.	roadrunners                     826	895.9	18.5	(249)
250.	Mudville Kings                  816	894.0	27.6	(251)
251.	Redliners                       820	890.8	15.9	(253)
252.	Pat Phillips                    827	889.1	10.1	(247)
253.	New Jersey Rob                  835	883.0	0.7	(252)
254.	Stewart Clamen                  821	869.4	1.6	(255)
255.	Demon Spawn                     782	860.1	25.0	(254)
256.	Sunnyvale Storm                 772	813.5	0.2	(256)
257.	Allez les Blues                 713	810.7	476.9	(257)
258.	Up For Sale Hockey Club         725	795.0	23.0	(260)
259.	Petes Picks                     689	788.1	168.5	(258)
260.	RINACO                          682	781.6	114.0	(259)
261.	Brenz Revenge                   669	718.5	4.0	(261)
262.	Dinamo Riga                     571	663.8	571.6	(262)
--
Andrew Scott                    | andrew@idacom.hp.com
HP IDACOM Telecom Operation     | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253
During the Roman Era, 28 was considered old...
From: andrew@idacom.hp.com (Andrew Scott)
Subject: USENET Hockey Draft week 26 price list
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, IDACOM Telecommunications Division
Lines: 264
Here is the price list for the week April 6 to April 12.
- Andrew
Buy	Sell	Pts	Team	Player
157.5	141.8	150	PIT	Mario_Lemieux
152.1	136.9	143	BUF	Pat_LaFontaine
139.3	125.4	131	BOS	Adam_Oates
133.8	120.4	129	DET	Steve_Yzerman
132.9	119.6	125	WPG	Teemu_Selanne
132.9	119.6	125	TOR	Doug_Gilmour
130.9	117.8	120	NYI	Pierre_Turgeon
129.7	116.7	122	BUF	Alexander_Mogilny
126.0	113.4	117	PHI	Mark_Recchi
120.2	108.2	113	LA	Luc_Robitaille
115.9	104.3	109	QUE	Mats_Sundin
111.3	100.2	106	PIT	Kevin_Stevens
108.5	97.7	102	STL	Craig_Janney
108.5	97.7	102	VAN	Pavel_Bure
106.3	95.7	100	CHI	Jeremy_Roenick
105.3	94.8	99	QUE	Joe_Sakic
104.0	93.6	99	PIT	Rick_Tocchet
103.1	92.8	97	STL	Brett_Hull
102.1	91.9	96	BOS	Joe_Juneau
102.1	91.9	96	TOR	Dave_Andreychuk
101.9	91.7	97	PIT	Ron_Francis
99.8	89.8	95	MTL	Vincent_Damphousse
98.9	89.0	93	MIN	Mike_Modano
98.9	89.0	93	WPG	Phil_Housley
98.9	89.0	93	CGY	Theoren_Fleury
97.8	88.0	92	BUF	Dale_Hawerchuk
97.7	87.9	93	MTL	Kirk_Muller
96.0	86.4	88	NYR	Mark_Messier
94.6	85.1	89	STL	Brendan_Shanahan
94.4	85.0	91	DET	Dino_Ciccarelli
91.4	82.3	86	LA	Jari_Kurri
91.4	82.3	87	PIT	Jaromir_Jagr
90.3	81.3	86	MTL	Brian_Bellows
88.3	79.5	82	WSH	Peter_Bondra
87.3	78.6	80	HFD	Geoff_Sanderson
87.2	78.5	82	CGY	Robert_Reichel
87.2	78.5	82	QUE	Steve_Duchesne
87.1	78.4	84	DET	Paul_Coffey
86.1	77.5	83	DET	Sergei_Fedorov
85.1	76.6	79	TB	Brian_Bradley
85.1	76.6	79	PHI	Rod_Brind'Amour
85.1	76.6	81	PIT	Larry_Murphy
84.0	75.6	77	HFD	Andrew_Cassels
84.0	75.6	77	HFD	Pat_Verbeek
84.0	75.6	79	LA	Tony_Granato
84.0	75.6	78	WSH	Mike_Ridley
84.0	75.6	77	NYI	Steve_Thomas
83.0	74.7	79	MTL	Stephan_Lebeau
81.8	73.6	76	WSH	Dale_Hunter
80.8	72.7	76	QUE	Mike_Ricci
80.8	72.7	76	BOS	Ray_Bourque
78.6	70.7	73	WSH	Kevin_Hatcher
77.7	69.9	74	SJ	Kelly_Kisio
77.6	69.8	73	VAN	Cliff_Ronning
77.6	69.8	73	STL	Jeff_Brown
77.6	69.8	73	TOR	Nikolai_Borschevsky
76.6	68.9	72	NJ	Claude_Lemieux
76.6	68.9	72	MIN	Dave_Gagner
76.6	68.9	72	MIN	Russ_Courtnall
76.4	68.8	70	NYR	Tony_Amonte
75.5	68.0	71	VAN	Murray_Craven
75.5	68.0	71	LA	Jimmy_Carson
75.5	68.0	71	CGY	Gary_Suter
75.5	68.0	71	MIN	Ulf_Dahlen
74.4	67.0	70	VAN	Geoff_Courtnall
74.4	67.0	70	BOS	Dmitri_Kvartalnov
74.3	66.9	69	WSH	Michal_Pivonka
74.2	66.8	68	NYI	Derek_King
74.2	66.8	68	NYI	Benoit_Hogue
73.4	66.1	69	QUE	Owen_Nolan
73.4	66.1	69	CHI	Steve_Larmer
73.4	66.1	69	NJ	Alexander_Semak
73.1	65.8	67	NYR	Mike_Gartner
72.3	65.1	68	STL	Nelson_Emerson
72.3	65.1	68	CHI	Chris_Chelios
72.2	65.0	67	PHI	Eric_Lindros
71.1	64.0	66	WSH	Al_Iafrate
70.2	63.2	66	VAN	Trevor_Linden
70.2	63.2	66	LA	Mike_Donnelly
70.0	63.0	65	WSH	Dmitri_Khristich
69.3	62.4	66	PIT	Joe_Mullen
69.1	62.2	65	CGY	Joe_Nieuwendyk
69.1	62.2	65	NJ	Stephane_Richer
68.1	61.3	64	WPG	Alexei_Zhamnov
68.1	61.3	64	WPG	Thomas_Steen
68.1	61.3	64	QUE	Andrei_Kovalenko
68.1	61.3	64	VAN	Petr_Nedved
66.5	59.9	61	NYR	Adam_Graves
66.5	59.9	61	HFD	Zarley_Zalapski
66.4	59.8	64	DET	Ray_Sheppard
64.9	58.4	61	TOR	Glenn_Anderson
64.1	57.7	61	SJ	Johan_Garpenlov
63.8	57.4	60	OTT	Norm_Maciver
63.0	56.7	60	MTL	Mike_Keane
63.0	56.7	60	PIT	Shawn_McEachern
62.7	56.4	59	LA	Rob_Blake
62.7	56.4	59	LA	Wayne_Gretzky
62.5	56.3	58	PHI	Garry_Galley
62.5	56.3	58	PHI	Brent_Fedyk
61.1	55.0	56	NYI	Pat_Flatley
60.6	54.5	57	CGY	Sergei_Makarov
60.6	54.5	57	NJ	Bernie_Nicholls
60.1	54.1	58	DET	Steve_Chiasson
59.5	53.6	56	CHI	Steve_Smith
59.5	53.6	56	QUE	Scott_Young
59.1	53.2	57	DET	Paul_Ysebaert
58.9	53.0	54	NYR	Sergei_Nemchinov
58.5	52.7	55	NJ	Valeri_Zelepukin
58.2	52.4	54	WSH	Pat_Elynuik
58.2	52.4	54	TB	John_Tucker
58.2	52.4	54	PHI	Kevin_Dineen
57.4	51.7	54	VAN	Greg_Adams
56.4	50.8	53	WPG	Darrin_Shannon
55.6	50.0	51	NYR	Darren_Turcotte
55.3	49.8	52	NJ	Scott_Stevens
55.0	48.8	51	CHI	Christian_Ruuttu
55.0	48.8	51	VAN	Dixon_Ward
55.0	48.8	51	WPG	Fredrik_Olausson
55.0	48.2	49	NYR	Ed_Olczyk
55.0	47.9	50	WPG	Keith_Tkachuk
55.0	47.2	48	NYI	Jeff_Norton
55.0	46.9	49	TOR	John_Cullen
55.0	46.9	49	VAN	Anatoli_Semenov
55.0	46.9	49	CGY	Al_MacInnis
55.0	46.9	49	BOS	Stephen_Leach
55.0	45.9	48	CHI	Brent_Sutter
55.0	45.4	48	MTL	Denis_Savard
55.0	45.2	46	HFD	Terry_Yake
55.0	45.0	47	NJ	John_MacLean
55.0	44.6	46	WSH	Sylvain_Cote
55.0	44.0	46	EDM	Petr_Klima
55.0	44.0	46	EDM	Shayne_Corson
55.0	44.0	46	LA	Tomas_Sandstrom
55.0	44.0	46	EDM	Craig_Simpson
55.0	43.5	46	MTL	Gilbert_Dionne
55.0	43.2	44	NYI	Vladimir_Malakhov
55.0	43.0	45	BOS	Dave_Poulin
55.0	43.0	45	STL	Kevin_Miller
55.0	43.0	45	LA	Alexei_Zhitnik
55.0	43.0	45	QUE	Martin_Rucinsky
55.0	43.0	45	WPG	Evgeny_Davydov
55.0	42.7	44	WSH	Kelly_Miller
55.0	42.1	44	EDM	Doug_Weight
55.0	42.1	44	EDM	Dave_Manson
55.0	41.2	42	HFD	Patrick_Poulin
55.0	41.1	43	CHI	Michel_Goulet
55.0	40.7	42	PHI	Pelle_Eklund
55.0	40.2	42	MIN	Mark_Tinordi
55.0	39.7	42	MTL	Mathieu_Schneider
55.0	39.2	41	CGY	Paul_Ranheim
55.0	39.2	41	EDM	Todd_Elik
55.0	39.2	41	BOS	Vladimir_Ruzicka
55.0	39.2	41	OTT	Sylvain_Turgeon
55.0	37.4	39	TOR	Dave_Ellett
55.0	37.4	40	DET	Niklas_Lidstrom
55.0	37.4	40	DET	Bob_Probert
55.0	36.4	38	NJ	Peter_Stastny
55.0	36.4	37	NYR	Esa_Tikkanen
55.0	36.4	38	OTT	Brad_Shaw
55.0	36.4	38	TOR	Wendel_Clark
55.0	36.4	38	BUF	Yuri_Khmylev
55.0	35.4	37	VAN	Sergio_Momesso
55.0	35.4	37	OTT	Bob_Kudelski
55.0	35.4	36	NYR	Brian_Leetch
55.0	35.4	37	NJ	Bobby_Holik
55.0	34.5	36	TOR	Rob_Pearson
55.0	34.5	36	MIN	Mike_McPhee
55.0	34.4	35	NYR	Alexei_Kovalev
55.0	33.9	35	TB	Adam_Creighton
55.0	33.5	35	EDM	Zdeno_Ciger
55.0	32.6	34	LA	Corey_Millen
55.0	32.6	34	CHI	Dirk_Graham
55.0	31.6	33	TOR	Peter_Zezel
55.0	30.6	32	BOS	Ted_Donato
55.0	30.6	32	QUE	Valery_Kamensky
55.0	30.2	32	MTL	Gary_Leeman
55.0	29.9	32	DET	Keith_Primeau
55.0	29.7	31	BUF	Wayne_Presley
55.0	29.7	31	MIN	Neal_Broten
55.0	29.7	31	BOS	Steve_Heinze
55.0	29.1	30	PHI	Josef_Beranek
55.0	28.7	30	CHI	Stephane_Matteau
55.0	28.7	30	BUF	Richard_Smehlik
55.0	28.7	30	TOR	Dmitri_Mironov
55.0	28.4	29	NYI	Brian_Mullen
55.0	27.2	28	PHI	Dmitri_Yushkevich
55.0	26.8	28	CHI	Brian_Noonan
55.0	26.8	28	EDM	Scott_Mellanby
55.0	26.5	28	SJ	Pat_Falloon
55.0	25.8	27	STL	Igor_Korolev
55.0	25.6	26	NYR	James_Patrick
55.0	24.8	26	BUF	Petr_Svoboda
55.0	23.9	25	OTT	Mark_Lamb
55.0	23.2	24	TB	Mikael_Andersson
55.0	22.6	23	NYI	Scott_LaChance
55.0	22.1	23	EDM	Kevin_Todd
55.0	21.3	22	WSH	Bob_Carpenter
55.0	21.1	22	TOR	Bill_Berg
55.0	21.1	22	WPG	Sergei_Bautin
55.0	20.8	22	MTL	Benoit_Brunet
55.0	20.6	21	NYI	David_Volek
55.0	20.6	21	HFD	Mikael_Nylander
55.0	20.1	21	MIN	Brent_Gilchrist
55.0	19.6	20	NYR	Phil_Bourque
55.0	19.6	20	NYI	Ray_Ferraro
55.0	18.6	19	HFD	Yvon_Corriveau
55.0	18.2	19	EDM	Martin_Gelinas
55.0	17.7	19	DET	Jim_Hiller
55.0	17.6	18	NYI	Darius_Kasparaitis
55.0	17.5	18	PHI	Andrei_Lomakin
55.0	17.2	18	BUF	Donald_Audette
55.0	15.5	16	TB	Roman_Hamrlik
55.0	15.1	16	SJ	Mark_Pederson
55.0	14.2	15	PIT	Martin_Straka
55.0	12.4	13	NJ	Janne_Ojanen
55.0	12.4	13	OTT	Tomas_Jelinek
55.0	11.5	12	CHI	Joe_Murphy
55.0	10.8	11	NYR	Peter_Andersson
55.0	10.6	11	TB	Steve_Kasper
55.0	10.5	11	BOS	Cam_Neely
55.0	9.5	10	MIN	Bobby_Smith
55.0	9.5	10	SJ	Ray_Whitney
55.0	8.8	9	HFD	Robert_Petrovicky
55.0	8.6	9	BUF	Viktor_Gordijuk
55.0	7.7	8	QUE	Mikhail_Tatarinov
55.0	7.7	8	TOR	Joe_Sacco
55.0	7.6	8	SJ	Peter_Ahola
55.0	6.7	7	CHI	Rob_Brown
55.0	6.7	7	BOS	Glen_Murray
55.0	5.9	6	HFD	Tim_Kerr
55.0	4.9	5	WSH	Reggie_Savage
55.0	4.8	5	STL	Vitali_Prokhorov
55.0	4.8	5	LA	Robert_Lang
55.0	4.8	5	EDM	Shaun_Van_Allen
55.0	3.9	4	BOS	Jozef_Stumpel
55.0	3.9	4	MIN	Dan_Quinn
55.0	3.8	4	PIT	Bryan_Fogarty
55.0	3.7	4	DET	Viacheslav_Kozlov
55.0	2.9	3	TB	Stan_Drulia
55.0	2.9	3	MIN	Brian_Propp
55.0	2.9	3	MTL	Olav_Petrov
55.0	2.0	2	WSH	Jason_Woolley
55.0	1.9	2	NJ	Claude_Vilgrain
55.0	0.0	0	VAN	Igor_Larionov
55.0	0.0	0	TB	Brent_Gretzky
55.0	0.0	0	OTT	Alexei_Yashin
55.0	0.0	0	QUE	Peter_Forsberg
55.0	0.0	0	EDM	Dean_McAmmond
55.0	0.0	0	WSH	Brian_Sakic
55.0	0.0	0	WSH	Randy_Burridge
55.0	0.0	0	MTL	Patrick_Kjellberg
55.0	0.0	0	CGY	Cory_Stillman
55.0	0.0	0	CHI	Sergei_Krivokrasov
55.0	0.0	0	BUF	Jason_Dawe
--
Andrew Scott                    | andrew@idacom.hp.com
HP IDACOM Telecom Operation     | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253
During the Roman Era, 28 was considered old...
From: andrew@idacom.hp.com (Andrew Scott)
Subject: USENET Playoff Pool
Organization: IDACOM, A division of Hewlett-Packard
Lines: 15
As I've mentioned in the rules posting, I will be out of town until the
day before the entry deadline, so I won't be able to respond to your
messages until April 18.
I would be grateful if someone could repost the rules and instructions for
the playoff pool sometime next week, for the benefit of those who missed the
first two postings.
Thanks.
--
Andrew Scott                    | andrew@idacom.hp.com
HP IDACOM Telecom Operation     | (403) 462-0666 ext. 253
During the Roman Era, 28 was considered old...
From: jyturunen@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
Lines: 18
Nntp-Posting-Host: tne03.tele.nokia.fi
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
In article <rauser.734062608@sfu.ca>, rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>
>    Here's the point: there are far too many Europeans in the NHL. I am sick
> of watching a game between an American and a Canadian team (let's say, the
> Red Wings and the Canucks) and seeing names like "Bure" "Konstantinov" and
> "Borshevshky". Is this North America or isn't it? Toronto, Detriot, Quebec,
> and Edmonton are particularly annoying, but the numbers of Euros on other
> teams is getting worse as well.
I'm sick too watching all-american names like GRETZKY etc.
Which names you accept ? Sitting bull and dances with wolves ?
It is North America. What are you doing here ?
Jyri
From: hahietanen@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi
Subject: TPS will stay on the top...
Lines: 23
Nntp-Posting-Host: tne01.tele.nokia.fi
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
MIGHTY ONES GET MIGHTIER:
TPS, the Finnish Champions 1992/3, are getting still stronger!
I just heard some news, according to which TPS has acquired
the next Finnish hockey superstar(??) Jere Lehtinen from Kiekko-Espoo!
There are also some rumours about Erik Kakko (Reipas) and Marko Jantunen
(KalPa) being traded to TPS. Both of this players are currently on the
Finnish olympic team. I think that Jantunen is drafted to the NHL, too.
BTW. Is Juha Yl|nen (centre, HPK) drafted by the Jets?? During last year
he has reached the top level among Finnish centres. He had very good
playoff games against TPS!
Hannu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> GO  JETS  GO ! >>>>>>>> TEEMU ! >>>>>>> TEPPO ! >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> TAPPARA >>>>>> CANADIENS >>>>>>> BLACKHAWKS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: patchman@lion.WPI.EDU (Peter Bruce Harper)
Subject: Personal to Ulf Samuellsson
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Lines: 22
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: lion.wpi.edu
Dear Ulf,
Would you possibly consider helpiMontreal Canadiens fans everywhere
by throwing a knee-check in the direction of Denis Savard during your upcoming
game against Montreal? We just can't seem to win WITH him!
Thanx alot,
Pete H.
:-)
###############################################################################
!Pete Harper          ! Baby, baby don't you hesitate 'cause I just can't wait!
!patchman@wpi.wpi.edu ! Lady once you get me down on my knees,                !
!OR                   ! then you can do what you please . . .                 !
!U_HARPER@jake.wpi.edu! COME ON AND LOVE ME!                                  !
!                     !         -Skid Row, "Come On and Love Me"              !
*******************************************************************************
From: r_turgeo@oz.plymouth.edu (Randy S. Turgeon)
Subject: Division by zero error in JACK NICKALUS TOURNAMENT GOLF
Article-I.D.: oz.1993Apr6.172218.21494
Reply-To: r_turgeo@oz.plymouth.edu (Randy S. Turgeon)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Lines: 17
I was playing this golf game and something interesting happened.
On the 7th hole, I drove the ball down the fairway, when the ball was
in mid-flight, the game completely froze. A couple seconds later, the
screen went completely black, with an error message in large "Bubble"
letters that said DIVISION BY ZERO. I thought it was funny considering
I am a computer programmer, and I had never seen an error like this on
an actual video game system like Sega or Nintendo (or even Atari or
Intellevision years ago). Oh yeah, after the message, there was also
what must have been an address, in hexadecimal. I forget the exact hex
code that was given. HAS THIS HAPPENED TO ANYONE ELSE??? It must have,
my game shouldn't have been the only one to do this.
Thanks
Randy
PSC
r_turgeo@oz.plymouth.edu
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Observations
Article-I.D.: netnews.118467
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 33
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
On the Lindros "trade":  Like Ottawa would be stupid enough to get
Lindros.  Why do you think Quebec traded him?  Lindros would go on
personal strike again...maybe I should talk to Ottawa mgmt. about
arranging such a trade....  ;-)
On that xenophobe:  Thankfully nobody agreed with him publicly.  Maybe we
should look at baseball, the supposed "American" pasttime (sp?).  Look at
all the damn Latin Americans playing there!  They should all be deported!
They aren't American!  (add sarcasm to taste)
To Roger:  Wow, for once we agree.  I hope this isn't a sign of things to
come.... I'll become a ranting lunatic who talks about nothing but the
Leafs being the best in the Campbell.  ;-)
On the Rangers:  I told someone that nothing that happened in the Patrick
would surprise me anymore.  I lied.  How the hell can a team go into
Washington, earn a shutout, then come back home and lose to pitiful
Hartford?  The absolute *pinnacle* of mediocrity.  I can't stand it.
From what I've read, the goalie is to blame this time, as Beezer played
pretty poorly.  Smith is talking about calling up Corey Hirsch from
Binghamton, everybody is pointing fingers... this is definitely not the
same team which wanted to prove itself in Washington.  *Now* nothing that
happens in the Patrick will surprise me.  (Yeah, right... ;-)
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"Next time you go over my head, I'll have yours on a platter."
-- Cmdr. Benjamin Sisko, 1993
From: mjr4u@Virginia.EDU ("Matthew J. Rush")
Subject: Re: Sad day for hockey
Article-I.D.: Virginia.1993Apr6.172016.212
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 50
dvb@ick  writes:
>
> 1. Foul (Any illegal contact with the other player or his stick with your
>    body or stick). If you get 5 you are out for the game.
I've never seen a game where one player has committed 5
penalties.  Something like this would require more attention by
the referee.
>
> 2. Unsportsmanlike contact. (An intentional foul). This inlcludes all the
>    current flavours of roughing, fighting and boarding. If you get two you
>    are thrown out of the game, and fined.
>
> 3. Technical foul. Bad mouthing the ref, by player or coach. Penalty shot
>    is awarded. Two and you are thrown out of the game.
>
> Besides the penalty shot for one technical, if the team gets 5 penalties
> in a period, the opposing team gets a penalty shot for every additional one,
> until the end of the period. The victim gets two shots if he/she was in
> the act of shooting when the foul ocured.
>
> This works well for several reasons. First, penalty shots are the most
> exciting thing in hockey, right? So, it follows that the more the better.
> Next, when the player is setting up for a penalty shot, the network can
> take a commercial. Finally, with only three penalties, the network
> announcers (Don Meredith, Dick Vitale, John Madden, Pat Summerall, and
> Marv Levy, among others) will be able to tell the viewers what happened before
> the PA announcer says it.
>
But you're creating a scoring opportunity where there might not
have been one before.  I can see the relationship between free
throws awarded after a certain number of fouls, but it's
obviously easier to score in basketball, there are more
opportunities.  If a basketball team scores 100 points, that's
at least fifty chances made.  The average number of shots taken
by each team in a hockey game (and this is a total guess) is
probably around 40, and a team is lucky to capitalize on maybe
5 of them.  You have some good ideas concerning the other
penalties, but I think that a player should be awarded a
penalty shot only when they had a chance to score and was
interfered with.
Also, later in the post, you talked about how boring the NBA
game you attended was, that play was stopped too often.
Wouldn't your penalty shot rule take up more time during a
hockey game?
Matt att UVA
From: ayari@judikael.loria.fr (Ayari Iskander)
Subject: Re: Lemieux, NHLPA'93, and other thoughts
Organization: Crin - Inria-Lorraine
Lines: 16
I think that NHLPA' 93 is the best video game available now.
of course many things could be done better, but i really appreciate that
the names of players are the real ones, no matter if it lacks some logos...
I am still playing it since November leading different teams to the finals
and making scorers from the same team compete for the top scoring:
Yesterday I won the title using Toronto against Hartford (4 games to two),
I played the playoffs in a 7 games fashion (5 minutes for each period) and
the best scorer and shooter was Gilmour (116 shots if I remember well)
--
_____________________________________________________
Iskander AYARI
Email : Iskander.Ayari@loria.fr ou ayari@loria.fr
_____________________________________________________
From: joe13+@pitt.edu (Joseph B Stiehm)
Subject: Re: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)...
Keywords: NHL, awards
Article-I.D.: blue.7995
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Lines: 93
In article <1993Apr6.170330.12314@is.morgan.com> scairns@fsg.com writes:
>
>			   MVP		  Surprise	  Disappointment
>			   ---------------------------------------------
>|> New York Rangers        Messier        Kovalev         Bourque
>		           Gartner	  Zubov		  Bourque
>
...
>Bourque - the Penguin's GM must laugh his head off every time he thinks
>of the Rangers and this loser.
>
>+------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Scott Cairns           	|   email: scairns@fsg.com         |
>| Fusion Systems Group		|  usmail: 225 Broadway, 24th Fl   |
>| New York, New York, USA   	|          New York, NY  10007     |
>+------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Standard disclaimers apply.   				   |
>+------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| I hope in the future Americans are thought of as a warlike,      |
>| vicious people, because then I bet a lot of high schools would   |
>| pick 'Americans' as their mascot.				   |
>|    					- Jack Handey		   |
>+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Please.  Have a care with Phil.  We liked him a lot in Pittsburgh.  He
didn't score a lot if you look at his stats last year but he worked his
butt off.  It was his speed that created opportunities in the offensive
zone that allowed the Pens to utilize his potential.  I haven't been
paying attention to him this year so I can't say I know what you're
objecting to.  He has been out with injuries though, hasn't he?  And
if the offense isn't there, there's not much his speed will do for you.
Like I said, he created opportunities but he didn't score much.  I thought
the money offered from the Rangers was a little high, and so did the Pens,
I guess.
Joseph Stiehm
In article <1993Apr6.170330.12314@is.morgan.com> scairns@fsg.com writes:
>
>			   MVP		  Surprise	  Disappointment
>			   ---------------------------------------------
>|> New York Rangers        Messier        Kovalev         Bourque
>		           Gartner	  Zubov		  Bourque
>
...
>Bourque - the Penguin's GM must laugh his head off every time he thinks
>of the Rangers and this loser.
>
>+------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Scott Cairns           	|   email: scairns@fsg.com         |
>| Fusion Systems Group		|  usmail: 225 Broadway, 24th Fl   |
>| New York, New York, USA   	|          New York, NY  10007     |
>+------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Standard disclaimers apply.   				   |
>+------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| I hope in the future Americans are thought of as a warlike,      |
>| vicious people, because then I bet a lot of high schools would   |
>| pick 'Americans' as their mascot.				   |
>|    					- Jack Handey		   |
>+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Please.  Have a care with Phil.  We liked him a lot in Pittsburgh.  He
didn't score a lot if you look at his stats last year but he worked his
butt off.  It was his speed that created opportunities in the offensive
zone that allowed the Pens to utilize his potential.  I haven't been
paying attention to him this year so I can't say I know what you're
objecting to.  He has been out with injuries though, hasn't he?  And
if the offense isn't there, there's not much his speed will do for you.
Like I said, he created opportunities but he didn't score much.  I thought
the money offered from the Rangers was a little high, and so did the Pens,
I guess.
Joseph Stiehm
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
Article-I.D.: alchemy.1993Apr6.195022.6362
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 24
In article <1993Apr6.155743.18798@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:
>In article <1993Apr6.141557.8864@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>>Anyways, crawl back into the hole you crawled out of...the NBA doesn't
>>care where they get basketball players from, major league baseball
>>doesn't give a damn where they get baseball players from (except Cuba,
>>that is).
>
>MLB is perfectly willing to take players from Cuba.  They just have to
>defect first.
>
>Sort of like the situation used to be with Russian/Czech/etc hockey
>players, until the political situation in those countries changed.
>
Major league baseball has told the Blue Jays and the Expos not to
sign Oscar Linares (I think that is his name)
...Canada does not have the restrictions against
Cubans that the US has and other major league teams have told the
Canadian teams that they would be very unhappy if the Expos or the
Blue Jays would do this.  Cubans players would not have to defect
to play in Canada and could play the 81 home games for the Expos
and Blue Jays without any trouble.
Gerald
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)...
Keywords: NHL, awards
Article-I.D.: alchemy.1993Apr6.200446.7553
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Lines: 33
In article <1993Apr6.170330.12314@is.morgan.com> scairns@fsg.com writes:
>Messier is a joke this year - bad back not withstanding.  His play is
>the reason the Rangers will be on the golf course in a couple of weeks.
>Gartner is my choice - the guy works his butt off every game.
>
>Kovalev - no surprise.  He's played adequately but as bad defensively
Kovalev is too talented a player to play for Roger Nielson...Roger needs
players who can't think for themselves and can only skate in straight
lines up and down the ice.  Dudley and Nielson are the only two coaches
bad enough in the league to take talents like Mogilny and Kovalev and
not know how to turn them into Bure and Selanne.
>as was predicted in preseason.  Perhaps he'll pull an Alex Mogilny in
>a couple of years and surprise us then.  Zubov wasn't expected to make
>it out of the minors this season and owing to the number of injuries,
>has proved to be a very pleasant surprise.
>
Get Muckler as coach, and Kovalev will look like Mogilny.
The trouble with the Rangers is that Neil Smith went out and got
players like Messier, Kovalev, and Graves who have been schooled in
taking the game to their opponent and attacking, while hiring coaches
who are interested in "rope-a-dope" strategies.  If you want the
Roger Nielsons of the world to be your coach you don't go out and
get a Mark Messier, who is an old dog who can't learn new tricks
from a known loser, and you don't waste your draft picks on players
like Kovalev.
Gerald
Gerald
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
Article-I.D.: adobe.1993Apr6.201745.840
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Lines: 24
In article <1993Apr6.195022.6362@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>Major league baseball has told the Blue Jays and the Expos not to
>sign Oscar Linares (I think that is his name)
Linares has not defected; as I pointed out, MLB requires that the player
defect first.
>...Canada does not have the restrictions against
>Cubans that the US has and other major league teams have told the
>Canadian teams that they would be very unhappy if the Expos or the
>Blue Jays would do this.
What a surprise.  As long as the pool of talent is not accessible to all
teams, MLB won't let a few teams sign it.  Seems perfectly reasonable to
me.
>  Cubans players would not have to defect
>to play in Canada and could play the 81 home games for the Expos
>and Blue Jays without any trouble.
Except that MLB won't allow it, which is all I ever said.
Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: J056600@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Lindros will be traded!!!
Article-I.D.: LMSC5.93096.46336.J056600
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Lines: 19
In <1993Apr5.163209.576@r-node.hub.org>, Jay Chu writes:
>True rumor.  Fact!  A big three way deal!
>Eric Lindros going to Ottawa Senators.  And Senators get $15mill from
>Montreal.
>Montreal gets Alexander Daigle (the first round pick from Senators)
>Philly gets Damphousse, Bellow, Patrick Roy and a draft pick.
Sheesh.  The rumor mill strikes again.  But let's just assume this were true.
My question is this:
What would Montreal give San Jose if the Sharks got first pick and took Daigle?
Tim Irvin
*****************************************************************************
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Re: Sad day for hockey
Article-I.D.: netnews.118520
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 39
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
In article <1pq50fINN15b@abyss.West.Sun.COM> dvb@ick (David Van Beveren) writes:
>NO NO NO! since all the penalties fall into three classes, there should
>only be three penalties:
>
>1. Foul (Any illegal contact with the other player or his stick with your
>   body or stick). If you get 5 you are out for the game.
>
>2. Unsportsmanlike contact. (An intentional foul). This inlcludes all the
>   current flavours of roughing, fighting and boarding. If you get two you
>   are thrown out of the game, and fined.
>
>3. Technical foul. Bad mouthing the ref, by player or coach. Penalty shot
>   is awarded. Two and you are thrown out of the game.
>
>Besides the penalty shot for one technical, if the team gets 5 penalties
>in a period, the opposing team gets a penalty shot for every additional one,
>until the end of the period. The victim gets two shots if he/she was in
>the act of shooting when the foul ocured.
These new rule changes are great!  However, I think that your rules are
MUCH too complicated.  How will the normal average fan be able to count
how many fouls a player has?  And then we would even have to remember the
names of the players, in order to determine who drew the foul!  And, of
course, there will have to be new "sub-positions", like the power center
who just sits in the slot until the (blue, of course) puck comes near him,
and the "shooting defenseman" and the "point defenseman".  Finally, we'll
be able to keep stats on the best and the worst penalty-shot takers.
Since almost everyone on the ice will be getting fouled, we'll be able to
see Ulf Samuellson (sp?) and Tie Domi miss penalty shots like crazy.
;-) ;-) ;-)
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"Next time you go over my head, I'll have yours on a platter."
-- Cmdr. Benjamin Sisko, 1993
From: dvb@ick (David Van Beveren)
Subject: Re: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)...
Article-I.D.: abyss.1psqioINN3mg
Distribution: world
Organization: Sunsoft Inc., Los Angeles, CA.
Lines: 25
NNTP-Posting-Host: ick
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
assist@orion.oac.uci.edu (ASSIST Coordination Site) writes:
: In article <C4zCII.Ftn@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> smale@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (Bryan Smale) writes:
: >                         MVP           Biggest       Biggest
: >                                       Suprise       Disappointment
:
: >Los Angeles Kings       Robitaille     Donnelly      Hrudey
:
:
: I would have chosen Alex Zhitnik for biggest suprise.  They
: did expect that he would become a great defenseman, but I don't
: think anyone knew that he was going to be this impressive in his
: rookie year.  His speed, skating ability, and puck control is
: exceptional -- he is the one to watch on the Kings.
:
I agree, with Marty McSorely and Warren Rychel running a close second and
third. I am surprised more people have not noted Knickle as the biggest
surprise, even though I personally do not really rate him well. The biggest
disappointment has to be Carson. Though this is really unfair, since too much
was expected of him. The second biggest disappointment is Melrose, with his
adolescent handling of the goaltending problems. Putting Hrudey on the bench
for a month is just stupid. It did not contribute to the team coming out of
its slump. MVP is surely Robitaille.
dvb
From: kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Keith Keller)
Subject: Re: New Name for the Stanley Cup
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences
Lines: 56
Nntp-Posting-Host: mail.sas.upenn.edu
In article <1993Apr2.202146.22837@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> phoenix@startide.ctr.columbia.edu (Ali Lemer) writes:
>
>Of course we need new position names for those unable to remember the
>very complicated hockey terminology:
>
>Old Name	New Name
>--------	--------
>
>Centre		The Guy in the Middle
>Left Wing	The Guy on the Left
>Right Wing	The Guy on the Right
>Defenceman	The Guy Back There
>Goaltender	The Guy in the Net (or "cage", as my mother calls it)
>Referee		The Guy with the Whistle
>Linesman	The Guy with the Arms
>Coach		The Guy in the Suit
>GM		The Head Guy
>Puck		The Black Thing
>Red Line	The Line in the Middle
>Blue Line	The Line on the Side
>Crease		The Place in front of the Guy in the Net
>Faceoff Circle	The Round Thing Where They Stand
>Slot or Point	Over There (must point to accompany term)
>Bench		The Place Where They Sit
>Penalty Box	The Place Where They Sit When They're Bad
Mr. Bettman	The Guy in the Wrong Sport
Mr. Stein	The Guy Who Should Be In Charge But Isn't
Of course, we also need new names for the individual awards, and other
stuff like the President's Cup.
President's Cup		The Trophy Given To the Best Regular-Season Team
Hart winner		The Most Valuable Player, chosen from the
Guys in the Middle, the Guys on the
Right, the Guys on the Left, the Guys
Back There, and the Guy in the Net,
though typically given only to the
Guys in the Middle and the Guys on
the Left and on the Right
Norris winner		The Best Guy in the back; or, the Guy who was
awarded for something even though he
is not one of the Guys in the Middle
or on the Left or the Right
...ad nauseum.
:-)
--
Keith Keller				LET'S GO RANGERS!!!!!
LET'S GO QUAKERS!!!!!
kkeller@mail.sas.upenn.edu		IVY LEAGUE CHAMPS!!!!
"Next time you go over my head, I'll have yours on a platter."
-- Cmdr. Benjamin Sisko, 1993
Subject: Paul Kuryia and Canadian World Team
From: apland@mala.bc.ca
Organization: Malaspina College
Lines: 6
Heard last night that Paul Kuryia will be playing for the Canadian World
Hockey team this year.  He was on a local radio station when a friend of
the familty called to congratulate him on the invitation.  Meekly Paul told
the host that he didn't think they wanted it out yet.  This morning I heard
that he is destined to play on a line with Lindros and Recci{unsure of this
one}.  If he plays well in this arena, he could go #1 or 2 in the draft.
Subject: Re: JETS FANS!  Hrivnak or Tabaracci??
From: gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak)
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 14
In article <1993Apr6.172313.29469@wam.umd.edu> giant@next14pg2.wam.umd.edu (Thundarr) writes:
>After seeing Hrivnak and Tabarraci play, who
>would you prefer to have?  And how about
>Tyler Larter?  What ever happened to him??
You know what my answer will be: Hrivnak! The choice is obvious.
--
GO SKINS!    ||"Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite
GO BRAVES!   ||   an effect on you?" - Mike Patton, Faith No More
GO HORNETS!  ||
GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu
From: fmsalvat@eos.ncsu.edu (FRANK MICHAE SALVATORE)
Subject: Re: JETS FANS!  Hrivnak or Tabaracci??
Article-I.D.: ncsu.1993Apr6.215225.11611
Reply-To: fmsalvat@eos.ncsu.edu (FRANK MICHAE SALVATORE)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Lines: 22
Originator: fmsalvat@c00574-1403br.eos.ncsu.edu
> >After seeing Hrivnak and Tabarraci play, who
> >would you prefer to have?  And how about
> >Tyler Larter?  What ever happened to him??
>
> 	You know what my answer will be: Hrivnak! The choice is obvious.
>
>
>
Ok, but have you seen Tabaracci play yet?  In his two starts and
his relief effort for Beaupre, he has looked mighty sharp - don't
forget the shutout.  I think he's let in just four goals over eight
periods of play.  I like Hrivnak, but we might actually have to give
some credit to David Poile for a change after this trade.
Hopefully if Tabaracci starts against the Isles tonight, I haven't
jinxed him.
Frank Salvatore
fmsalvat@eos.ncsu.edu
From: steveg@cadkey.com (Steve Gallichio)
Subject: Re: This year's biggest and worst (opinion)...
Keywords: NHL, awards
Article-I.D.: access.1pstuo$k4n
Organization: Cadkey, Inc.
Lines: 53
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.net
Bryan Smale (smale@healthy.uwaterloo.ca) writes:
> I was thinking about who on each of the teams were the MVPs, biggest
> surprises, and biggest disappointments this year.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>                         Team           Biggest       Biggest
> Team:                   MVP:           Surprise:     Disappointment:
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Hartford Whalers        Sanderson      Cassells      Corriveau
My votes (FWIW):
Team MVP: Pat Verbeek. He fans on 25% of goal mouth feeds, but he still has
36 goals after a terrible start and has been an examplary (sp?) team captain
throughout a tough couple of seasons. Honorable mention: Nick Kypreos and
Mark Janssens. Probably more appropriate in the unsung heroes category than
MVP, but Kypreos (17 goals, 320+ PIM) has been the hardest working player on
the team and Janssens is underrated as a defensive center and checker. I guess
I place a greater emphasis on hard work than skill when determining value.
Biggest surprise: Geoff Sanderson. He had 13 goals and 31 points last season
as a center, then moved to left wing and has so far put up 45 goals and 80+
points. He now has a new Whaler record 21 power play goals, most all coming
from the right wing faceoff circle, his garden spot. Honorable mention: Andrew
Cassels and Terry Yake. The kiddie quartet of Sanderson, Poulin, Nylander, and
Petrovicky have been attracting the most attention, but Cassels is just 23
and will score close to 90 points this season. He has quite nicely assumed the
role of number one center on the team and works very well with Sanderson. Yake
bounced around the minors for a number of seasons but is still 24 and will put
up about 20 goals and 50 points this season. Yake, like Sanderson, started
performing better offensively once he was converted from center to wing,
although lefty Sanderson went to the left wing and righty Yake went to the
right side.
Biggest disappointment: Hands down, John Cullen. Cullen had a disasterous 77
point season last year, his first full season after The Trade. Cullen started
the season off of summer back surgery, and fell flat on his face (appropriate,
since he spent all of his Whaler career flat on his ass, and whining about it).
Cullen scored just 9 point on 19 games, was a clubhouse malcontent, commanded
the powerplay to a 9% success percentage (>21% with Sanderson), and sulked his
way out of town. Worst of all, his 4 year, $4M contract had three years left
to run, so no one would give up any more than the 2nd round draft pick the
Maple Leafs offered to Hartford. Honorable mention: Steve Konroyd, also subpar
after signing a 3 year, $2.1M contract; Eric Weinrich, who showed flashes of
competence, but overall has played poorly; Jim McKenzie, who was a much better
hockey player two seasons ago than he is now; and Frank Pietrangelo, who only
seemed to play well when Sean Burke was out for an extended period and he got
to make a number of starts in a row.
-SG (a real live Hartford Whalers season ticket holder)
-steveg@cadkey.com
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute
Distribution: na
From: Raj Ramnarace <ACPS6992@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca>
Subject: Maple Leafs Update
Lines: 8
For those Leaf fans who are concerned, the following players are slated for
return on Thursday's Winnipeg-Toronto game :
Peter Zezel, John Cullen
Mark Osborne and Dave Ellett are questionable to return on Thursday.
All regular players who were injured (including Dimitri Mironov) should be back
for Saturday's home game against the Flyers.
From: J056600@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Does the FAQ crash YOUR newsreader?
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Lines: 9
The r.s.h FAQ sheet never fails to crash my newsreader.  The only way I
can avoid crashing (and restarting the machine) is to look at the headers and
avoid reading the FAQ.  Does anyone else have problems reading the FAQ?
Tim Irvin
******************************************************************************
The season is near a merciful end...
From: khettry@r1w2.pub.utk.edu (23064RFL)
Subject: Testing!!!
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
Just Testing!!
Distribution: usa
Lines: 1
From: pavalin@bnr.ca (Paul Valin)
Subject: Re: Canadiens - another Stanley Cup???
Nntp-Posting-Host: bcarm4b8
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Lines: 31
In article <1993Apr6.044045.5215@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>,
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) wrote:
>
> In <rauser.734062534@sfu.ca> rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>
>>pereira@CAM.ORG (Dean Pereira) writes:
>
>
>>>		With the kind of team Montreal has now,  they can take the
>>>cup easily.  The only problem they have right now is that everyone is
>>>trying to steal the show and play alone.  They need some massive teamwork.
>
>This is known as the Savard syndrome - and we are talking Denis, not Serge.
>No team will ever win squat with the likes of Denis Savard in their lineup.
>
>
>They could tell Savard to stay home and watch the games on TV.
If life were so simple!  Savard has not played in three of the last
four games and they are still playing like crap.  Montreal's problems
run deeper than Savard (and Mouton) unfortunately; I hope they can
get their act together before the playoffs.
The line-up in their game coming up against PittsburgH is said to be
the one they're likely to use for the playoffs.  Let's hope they can
forget about the nice weather we're having and play hockey.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Valin                                     Tel: + 1 613 763 7394
Bell-Northern Research Ltd.                    Email: pavalin@bnr.ca
P.O. Box 3511, Station C
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1Y 4H7               'only my opinions...'
From: umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Daryl Turner)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
Nntp-Posting-Host: gibson.cc.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Lines: 76
In article <rauser.734062608@sfu.ca> rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>
>   Here's the point: there are far too many Europeans in the NHL. I am sick
>of watching a game between an American and a Canadian team (let's say, the
>Red Wings and the Canucks) and seeing names like "Bure" "Konstantinov" and
>"Borshevshky". Is this North America or isn't it? Toronto, Detriot, Quebec,
>and Edmonton are particularly annoying, but the numbers of Euros on other
>teams is getting worse as well.
Gee, you'd think Winnipeg would be tops on that list, what with 8 regulars
being European.
>
>    I live in Vancouver and if I hear one more word about "Pavel Bure, the
>Russian Rocket" I will completely throw up. As it is now, every time I see
>the Canucks play I keep hoping someone will cross-check Bure into the plexiglassso hard they have to carry him out on a stretcher. (By the way, I'm not a
>Canucks fan to begin with ;-).
Well, being a Jet fan, I sometimes wish that Bure would get knocked silly
too.  (Nothing serious, just enough to keep him out of a game. :)
>
>    Okay, the stretcher remark was a little carried away. But the point is that
>I resent NHL owners drafting all these Europeans INSTEAD of Canadians (and
>some Americans). It denies young Canadians the opportunity to play in THEIR
>NORTH AMERICAN LEAGUE and instead gives it to Europeans, who aren't even
>better hockey players. It's all hype. This "European mystique" is sickening,
>but until NHL owners get over it, Canadian and American players will continue
>to have to fight harder to get drafted into their own league.
In most cases, the owners have very little to do with it.  They give their
general managers one order when it comes to the draft...find me the best
players so that our team will win the Stanley Cup.  Whether that player is
in Kindersley, Saskatchewan or Chelyabinsk, Russia, if the GM believes him
to be the better player, the GM should be drafting him.
Where do you get off calling the NHL THEIR league, when referring to Canadian
players.  It doesn't belong to them, it belongs to the owners.  The owners
can do what they want.  While a 'Canadian content' rule might be enforcable
here in Canada, there is enough doubt that it would be enforcable in the US
that the CFL (sorry for the football reference) didn't even TRY to push their
import ratio rule on the Sacromento Goldminers.
Increasing the competition for the 'elite' positions, in most cases, would
make players better anyways.  (Oh yeah, and how many Europeans play at the
lower levels of professional hockey in North America?  While there are some
that play in the AHL, or the IHL where that's an NHL team's primary farm
club, you don't hear of many Europeans playing in the CHL, the ECHL, or on
the secondary farm teams in the IHL.  (ie. the Jets do have a few Russian
players in Moncton, but I don't believe there are any Europeans in Ft. Wayne.))
So with all those teams, there are plenty of positions for hockey players
in North America.
>
>    With the numbers of Euros in the NHL escalating, the problem is clearly
>only getting worse.
>
>    I'm all for the creation of a European Hockey League, and let the Bures
>and Selannes of the world play on their own continent.
>
>    I just don't want them on mine.
I'm in favour of the NHL being the league for the premier players in the
world.  I've grown up with Europeans playing on 'my' team, and some of those
players were the among the best in the world.  From Hedberg, Nilsson, and
Sjoberg, to Sel{nne, Zhamnov, and Olausson, and all those in between and to
come, I wouldn't have it any other way.
Daryl Turner : r.s.h contact for the Winnipeg Jets
Internet: umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca
FidoNET: 1:348/701 -or- 1:348/4  (please route through 348/700)
Tkachuk over to Zhamnov, up to Sel{nne, he shoots, he scores!
The Jets win the Cup!  The Jets win the Cup!
Essensa for Vezina!  Housley for Norris!  Sel{nne for Calder!
From: macro@cup.hp.com (Patrick MacRoberts)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
In-Reply-To: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca's message of Tue, 6 Apr 1993 14:20:37 GMT
Lines: 25
<1993Apr6.142037.9246@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
Nntp-Posting-Host: hpcobr30.cup.hp.com
Organization: Nazi Right-Wing Parenting Monthly
%>I dunno, Lemieux?  Hmmm...sounds like he
%>has *French* blood in him!!!  Hey!  France is part of Europe!  Send that
%>Euro-blooded boy back!!!
%
% Don't you Americans study history...the French settled in North America
% as early or before the British...Lemieux can probably trace back his
% North American heritage back a lot further than most of us.
<friendly-jibe mode on>
Don't you Canadians understand sarcasm?  Sometimes the reader must
decide that what he's reading is so ludicrous that it must mean
the opposite of what it said...
Kinda like the "Toronto's going to win the Cup" posts.  Yeah.  Right.
And cows can fly...
<friendly-jibe mode off>
Geez, Gerald.  Like anyone reading rec.flamefest.hockey.pens.are.great
didn't know that Le-Mow was from Quebec.
-Patrick
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Lines: 17
In article <1993Apr6.141557.8864@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>Anyways, crawl back into the hole you crawled out of...the NBA doesn't
>care where they get basketball players from, major league baseball
>doesn't give a damn where they get baseball players from (except Cuba,
>that is).
MLB is perfectly willing to take players from Cuba.  They just have to
defect first.
Sort of like the situation used to be with Russian/Czech/etc hockey
players, until the political situation in those countries changed.
Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Daryl Turner)
Subject: Re: TPS will stay on the top...
Nntp-Posting-Host: gibson.cc.umanitoba.ca
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Lines: 25
In article <1993Apr6.171611.1@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi> hahietanen@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi writes:
>MIGHTY ONES GET MIGHTIER:
>
>TPS, the Finnish Champions 1992/3, are getting still stronger!
Oh no!  Say it isn't so!
>
>BTW. Is Juha Yl|nen (centre, HPK) drafted by the Jets?? During last year
>he has reached the top level among Finnish centres. He had very good
>playoff games against TPS!
Yes, Yl|nen is a draft choice of the Jets.  (Assuming, of course, this
is the same Yl|nen that played for Kiekko-Espoo in 1990-91.)  He was a
5th round, 91st overall pick of the Jets in the 1991 entry draft.
I noticed in the summaries that Yl|nen had really begun to play well in
the playoffs.
Daryl Turner : r.s.h contact for the Winnipeg Jets
Internet: umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca
FidoNET: 1:348/701 -or- 1:348/4  (please route through 348/700)
Tkachuk over to Zhamnov, up to Sel{nne, he shoots, he scores!
The Jets win the Cup!  The Jets win the Cup!
Essensa for Vezina!  Housley for Norris!  Sel{nne for Calder!
From: lsa@ll.mit.edu (lisa s anderson)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
Reply-To: lsa@ll.mit.edu (lisa s anderson)
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Lines: 24
In article <1993Apr6.142037.9246@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
|>
|>In article <1993Apr6.044323.22829@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> daniell@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel Lyddy) writes:
|>>
|>>You know, you're absolutely right.  I think we should round up all those
|>>players of European descent and ship 'em back to where they came from.  Let's
|>>see, with whom should we start?  I dunno, Lemieux?  Hmmm...sounds like he
|>>has *French* blood in him!!!  Hey!  France is part of Europe!  Send that
|>>Euro-blooded boy back!!!
|>>
|>
|>Don't you Americans study history...the French settled in North America
|>as early or before the British...Lemieux can probably trace back his
|>North American heritage back a lot further than most of us.
|>
|>Gerald
|>
Uh, Gerald, I think he was joking...
-lisa
From: ac942@Freenet.carleton.ca (Marc Gregoire)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
Reply-To: ac942@Freenet.carleton.ca (Marc Gregoire)
Organization: The National Capital Freenet
Lines: 52
Somebody wrote:
>I'd *LOVE* to see a European NHL division but can't see it happen for some
>time. There's simply not enough fan interest at the moment in several
>"crucial" markets like Germany, Italy and France while Sweden and Finland
>probably can't afford to shell out $20-$30 for tickets the way
>American/Canadian fans do. Call it "the Minnesota North Stars" effect:
>Scandinavians do love hockey but we prefer to watch local, inexpensive
>hockey to the NHL. The National Hockey League should love the idea, though.
>Pan-European TV channels such as Eurosport could bring in the millions the
>American networks likely never will pay.
This brings up a question I asked myself (no answer) when it was mentionned
that the NHL could expand in Europe.
Would most of the North-americans now playing in the NHL be willing
to play for a team in Europe?
I do not think that the majority of hockey players are necessarily
interested in expanding their cultural experience to that level.
(I know I would but I am not a pro hockey player)
When one recalls some players remarks in the last few years it makes
me wonder how a European expansion could be achieved.  Remember these:
- Lindros did not want to play in Quebec (for more than $ reasons)
- Nicholls ... in Edmonton.
- R. Courtnall wanted to be traded to LA only.
- C. Lemieux said he would refuse to go to Edmonton earlier this year.
I know there are many non-cultural reasons behind these but there is more:
- Some american players who played for the Expos complained about the french
fact and that the city was not quite like the other US cities.  One
players' wife trying to make her point went on to complain that she could
not even find her favorite brand of nacho chips in Montreal.
Anybody knows what happened when all these US football players moved
to London, Spain, etc .. for the one year of that new football league
(2 years ago?)
I wonder what the players association thinks about going to Europe.
Myself I would like to see some European teams, but what would be
the best way to do it?
Marc
From: dvb@ick (David Van Beveren)
Subject: Sad day for hockey
Organization: Sunsoft Inc., Los Angeles, CA.
Lines: 59
NNTP-Posting-Host: ick
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
ee0i+@andrew.cmu.edu ("Ethan Z. Evans") writes:
:
: Of course, penalties will have to be changed:
:
: Roughing:	Chauvanistic Males Being Aggressive
: Slashing:	Chauvanistic Males Venting Frustration
: Fighting:	Proof That Males Cannot Cope With Their Feelings
:
NO NO NO! since all the penalties fall into three classes, there should
only be three penalties:
1. Foul (Any illegal contact with the other player or his stick with your
body or stick). If you get 5 you are out for the game.
2. Unsportsmanlike contact. (An intentional foul). This inlcludes all the
current flavours of roughing, fighting and boarding. If you get two you
are thrown out of the game, and fined.
3. Technical foul. Bad mouthing the ref, by player or coach. Penalty shot
is awarded. Two and you are thrown out of the game.
Besides the penalty shot for one technical, if the team gets 5 penalties
in a period, the opposing team gets a penalty shot for every additional one,
until the end of the period. The victim gets two shots if he/she was in
the act of shooting when the foul ocured.
This works well for several reasons. First, penalty shots are the most
exciting thing in hockey, right? So, it follows that the more the better.
Next, when the player is setting up for a penalty shot, the network can
take a commercial. Finally, with only three penalties, the network
announcers (Don Meredith, Dick Vitale, John Madden, Pat Summerall, and
Marv Levy, among others) will be able to tell the viewers what happened before
the PA announcer says it.
Oh, one other rule. When a goal is scored (10-20 times a period), the play
cannot resume until the PA announcer announces it. This way, the network
can sneak in a few more commercials. Then, once the PA announcer has told
them who scored, the TV announcer can tell you the viewer, and even have a
chance of pronouncing his name right.
Seriously, though, I actually went to see a NBA basketball game last week,
for the first time in my life. I was amazed how boring it was. The play is
so slow they actually had fans come out for things like free-throw shooting
contests DURING THE PERIOD!. Of course the 'Laker Girls' get to do their
routines at least 6-8 times during the game, and not just between periods
either. There is a whistle every 30 seconds on average, maybe less. The
game is 48 minutes, with 2 minutes between quarters 1-2 and 3-4 and a
10 minute halftime, and it still takes over 2 hours.
The reason for this has to be TV. There is plenty of room to throw in
commercials, and have the announcer jabber while nothing else is happening.
On TV, basketball is fairly entertaining, IMHO. But, it is better to watch
it on TV than to be there. If this is the road the NHL is following, then
it truly is a sad day.
Enough for now.
dvb
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
From: riel@unixg.ubc.ca (William Riel)
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca
Lines: 6
How long has Don Cherry been a student at SFU? (or is that Arche Bunker?)
Please, keep this racist drivel off of the net.  You're an embarassment
to Canadians everywhere.
Bill
From: tvartiai@vipunen.hut.fi (Tommi Vartiainen)
Subject: Re: TPS will stay on the top...
Nntp-Posting-Host: vipunen.hut.fi
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Lines: 15
In <1993Apr6.171611.1@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi> hahietanen@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi writes:
>BTW. Is Juha Yl|nen (centre, HPK) drafted by the Jets?? During last year
>he has reached the top level among Finnish centres. He had very good
>playoff games against TPS!
I'm not sure about Juha, but another top center, Rauli Raitanen([ss{t)
is drafted by Jets. Raitanen had very good year and he has played in the
Finnish nationalteam. I believe that he'll be one of the best finns in
this year's WC, if Matikainen(Head coach) elects him to the team.
>  Hannu
Tommi
From: pbarone@x102a.ess.harris.com (barone philip 00309)
Subject: USENET Playoff Pool
Nntp-Posting-Host: x102a.ess.harris.com
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Organization: Harris ESS, Melbourne, Fla.
Lines: 15
I saw a previous request for the Rules and Instructions for the USENET
playoff pool but I haven't seen any responce. Does anybody have this info?
If so post away or you could mail it to me. Thanks in advance.
--
============================================================================
Phil Barone                  \       Internet:  pbarone@x102a.ess.harris.com
Harris Corporation GISD       \
Cape Canaveral A.F.S.          \
407-853-8169                    \
============================================================================
From: LMARSHA@cms.cc.wayne.edu (Laurie Marshall)
Subject: Re: WHERE ARE THE DOUBTERS NOW?  HMM?
Article-I.D.: cms.16BA79DBA.LMARSHA
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit MI  U.S.A.
Lines: 22
NNTP-Posting-Host: cms.cc.wayne.edu
In article <1993Apr4.051942.27095@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>
maynard@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>
>For those of you who can only decide which team is best after you have
>seen the standings:
>
>TOR  42 25 11  95   .609
>CHI  42 25 11  95   .609
>DET  44 28  9  97   .599
>VAN  41 28  9  91   .583
>
>No team in the Campbell Conference has a better record than Toronto.
That's true, but according to your stats, Chicago has just as good a
record as Toronto.  It's interesting that you should list Toronto ahead
of Chicago.
Laurie Marshall
Wayne State University
Detroit, Michigan
Go Wings!!
From: gtd597a@prism.gatech.EDU (Hrivnak)
Subject: Re: Miami's name?
Article-I.D.: hydra.91678
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 13
In article <1993Apr6.160042.4953@vax.cns.muskingum.edu> da_tinker1@vax.cns.muskingum.edu writes:
>When will the new Miami franchise team announce it's name?
>Just curious.
The South Florida Colons.
:)
--
GO SKINS!    ||"Now for the next question... Does emotional music have quite
GO BRAVES!   ||   an effect on you?" - Mike Patton, Faith No More
GO HORNETS!  ||
GO CAPITALS! ||Mike Friedman (Hrivnak fan!) Internet: gtd597a@prism.gatech.edu
From: khettry@r1w2.pub.utk.edu (23064RFL)
Subject: Testing !!
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
Distribution: utk
Lines: 6
Just Testing !!!
No flames please !
Bye
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Too Many Europeans in NHL
Article-I.D.: news.1993Apr6.204743.21314
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: PhDs In The Hall
Lines: 17
Nntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
You're right ... I'm sick of seeing all those white guys on skates
myself ... the Vancouver Canucks should be half women, and overall
one-third Oriental.

(-; (-; (-; (-; (-; (-;
And I'll gladly volunteer myself for the overage draft. (-;
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@columbia.EDU 			GO  Winnipeg Jets  GO!!!
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			Selanne + Domi ==> Stanley
From: hamlet@stein.u.washington.edu (Mitch McGowan)
Subject: rec.sport.hockey Frequently Asked Questions
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 1768
Expires: Mon, 03 May 93 00:00:01 EDT
Reply-To: hamlet@u.washington.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu
Archive-name: hockey-faq
rec.sport.hockey answers to Frequently Asked Questions and other news:
Contents:
0. New Info.
1. NHL
2. NHL Minor Leagues
3. College Hockey (North America)
4. Other leagues (e.g. Europe, Canada Cup tournament)
5. E-mail files
6. USENET Hockey Pool
7. Up-coming Dates
8. Answers to some frequently asked questions
9. Miscellaneous
Send comments, suggestions and criticisms regarding this FAQ list via e-
mail to hamlet@u.washington.edu.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0. New Info.
This section will describe additions since the last post so that you can
decide if there is anything worth reading. Paragraphs containing new
information will be preceded by two asterisks (**).
1.: New Anaheim contact, Winnipeg to keep affiliate in Moncton.
2.: New Milwaukee contact, IHL broadcaster of the year named, Rheaume to
start against Cyclones, San Diego sets record.
3.: Ticket info included for 1994 NCAA Division I Championships.
4.: World Championship Pool B results listed, Sweden Hockey Games final
standings listed, Swedish Elite League final standings listed, new Olypmic
Hockey mailing list.
5.: New Montreal mailing list address.
6.:
7.:
8.:
9.:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. NHL - National Hockey League
For detailed information concerning a team (particularly where to get
tickets and merchandise, where to watch games in town....), send e-mail to
the net contact(s) for the team.
First   # of   Last
Team                   Div  Season  Cups   Cup    Net Contacts
---------------------  ---  ------  ----  ------ ----------------------
**
Anaheim Mighty Ducks    -   93-94      -    -    Kris Myers
kris@fs2.assist.uci.edu
Boston Bruins           A   24-25      5  71-72
Buffalo Sabres          A   70-71      0    -    Jeff Horvath
jhorvath@macc.wisc.edu
Calgary Flames          S   80-81*     1  88-89  CALDWELL8102@mtroyal.ab.ca
Chicago Blackhawks      N   26-27      3  60-61  John Scholvin
scholvin@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Detroit Red Wings       N   33-34*     7  54-55  SGLENN@cmsa.gmr.com
Edmonton Oilers         S   79-80*     5  89-90  Andrew Scott
andrew@idacom.hp.com
Hartford Whalers        A   79-80*     0    -    Matthew Olsen
dmolsen@athena.mit.edu
Los Angeles Kings       S   67-68      0    -    Stan Willis
willis@empire.dnet.hac.com
Minnesota North Stars   N   67-68*     0    -    Mitch McGowan
hamlet@u.washington.edu
Montreal Canadiens      A   17-18     22  85-86
New Jersey Devils       P   82-83*     0    -
New York Islanders      P   72-73      4  82-83  Mark Anania
ananim@rpi.edu
New York Rangers        P   26-27      3  39-40  Paul Romano
romano@monolith.bellcore.com
Ottawa Senators         A   92-93      0    -    Scott Simpson
simpson@bnr.ca
Philadelphia Flyers     P   67-68      2  74-75  Pete Clark
seth@hos1cad.att.com
Pittsburgh Penguins     P   67-68      2  91-92  Lori Iannamico
lli+@cs.cmu.edu
Thomas Sullivan
tms@cs.cmu.edu
Quebec Nordiques        A   79-80*     0    -
St. Louis Blues         N   67-68      0    -    Joseph Achkar
jca2@cec1.wustl.edu
San Jose Sharks         S   91-92      0    -    Nelson Lu
claudius@leland.stanford.edu
**
South Florida           -   93-94      -    -
Tampa Bay Lightning     N   92-93      0    -    Tom Wilson
wilson@eola.cs.ucf.edu
Toronto Maple Leafs     N   26-27*    11  66-67  Darryl Gamble
darryl@cs.yorku.ca
Vancouver Canucks       S   70-71      0    -    Alan Chim
chim@sfu.ca
Washington Capitals     P   74-75      0    -    David Lu
david@eng.umd.edu
Winnipeg Jets           S   79-80*     0    -    umturne4@ccu.umanitoba.ca
A=Adams N=Norris P=Patrick S=Smythe
*Calgary: formerly Atlanta Flames (72/73-79/80)
Detroit: formerly Detroit Cougars (26/27-29/30) -> Detroit Falcons
(30/31-32/33)
Edmonton: formerly Alberta Oilers (WHA) (72/73) -> Edmonton Oilers (WHA)
(72/73-78/79)
Hartford: formerly New England Whalers (WHA) (72/73-78/79)
Minnesota: Cleveland Barons were merged with Minnesota for the 1978/79
season.
New Jersey: formerly Kansas City Scouts (74/75-75/76) -> Colorado
Rockies (76/77-81/82)
Quebec: formerly Quebec Nordiques (WHA) (72/73-78/79)
Toronto: formerly Toronto Arenas (17/18-18/19) -> Toronto St. Patricks
(19/20-25/26)
Winnipeg: formerly Winnipeg Jets (WHA) (72/73-78/79)
Teams with mailing lists, see section 5 for addresses: Boston, Buffalo,
Los Angeles, Montreal, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, San Jose,
Tampa Bay, Vancouver, Washington.
-----
- Schedule
1992-1993 Schedule for the NHL
April
Sun       Mon       Tue       Wed       Thu       Fri       Sat
+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+
!         !         !         !         ! 1       ! 2       ! 3       !
!         !         !         !         !Min @ Cal!Mon @ Was!Buf @ Bos!
!         !         !         !         !Det @ Chi!NYI @ NYR!Cal @ SJ !
!         !         !         !         !Har @ Pit!         !Chi @ StL!
!         !         !         !         !Que @ Ott!         !Van @ Det!
!         !         !         !         !Tor @ Phi!         !Win @ Edm!
!         !         !         !         !Win @ SJ !         !Ott @ Har!
!         !         !         !         !Van @ TB !         !Min @ LA !
!         !         !         !         !         !         !Mon @ NYI!
!         !         !         !         !         !         !NJ  @ Tor!
!         !         !         !         !         !         !TB  @ Phi!
!         !         !         !         !         !         !Pit @ Que!
+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+
! 4       ! 5       ! 6       ! 7       ! 8       ! 9       !10       !
!Bos @ Buf!Har @ NYR!Bos @ Que!Edm @ Van!Que @ Bos!Van @ Cal!Bos @ Mon!
!Cal @ SJ !         !Buf @ Min!Har @ Ott!Chi @ NYI!Pit @ NYR!Buf @ Det!
!StL @ Chi!         !Cal @ LA !Mon @ Pit!Det @ TB !         !Chi @ TB !
!Pit @ NJ !         !Edm @ SJ !NYR @ NJ !SJ  @ LA !         !Har @ Que!
!NYR @ Was!         !NYI @ Was!         !Was @ Phi!         !LA  @ SJ !
!Van @ Ott!         !Phi @ Win!         !Tor @ Win!         !StL @ Min!
!         !         !StL @ TB !         !         !         !NJ  @ Was!
!         !         !         !         !         !         !Ott @ NYI!
!         !         !         !         !         !         !NYR @ Pit!
!         !         !         !         !         !         !Phi @ Tor!
+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+
!11       !12       !13       !14       !15       !16       !17       !
!Ott @ Bos!Was @ Mon!Mon @ Buf!Bos @ Ott!Phi @ Buf!         !         !
!Que @ Buf!NYR @ Phi!Cal @ Edm!NYI @ Har!SJ  @ Cal!         !         !
!Cal @ Van!         !Chi @ Min!Pit @ NJ !Tor @ Chi!         !         !
!TB  @ Chi!         !LA  @ Van!Was @ NYR!Min @ Det!         !         !
!Win @ Edm!         !Ott @ Que!         !Edm @ Win!         !         !
!Tor @ Har!         !StL @ Tor!         !Har @ NYI!         !         !
!Min @ StL!         !TB  @ Win!         !Van @ LA !         !         !
!NYI @ NJ !         !         !         !NJ  @ Pit!         !         !
!         !         !         !         !TB  @ StL!         !         !
+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+
The season will begin on 10/6 and end on 4/15. Playoffs will begin on
4/18 and end on or before 6/14. 24 NHL regular season games will be played
in non-NHL cities during 92-93 season. Cities: Milwaukee (2), Sacramento
(2), Cleveland (2), Indianapolis, Phoenix, Miami, Oklahoma City, Dallas,
Atlanta, Cincinnati, Providence, Peoria, Hamilton (4), Saskatoon (4),
Halifax.
Here is a chart showing the number of games between the teams (84 games
each):
N N N P P W   B B H M O Q   C D M S T T   C E L S V W
J Y Y h i a   o u a o t u   h e i t B o   a d A J a i
I R i t s   s f r n t e   i t n L   r   l m     n n
= = = = = =   = = = = = =   = = = = = =   = = = = = =
NJ : - 7 7 7 9 7   4 4 4 3 4 4   2 2 2 2 2 2   2 2 2 2 2 2
NYI: 7 - 7 9 7 7   4 3 4 4 3 3   2 2 2 3 2 2   2 3 2 2 2 2
NYR: 7 7 - 7 7 9   3 4 3 4 3 4   2 2 2 2 3 2   2 2 2 3 2 2
Phi: 7 9 7 - 7 7   4 3 3 4 3 4   2 3 2 2 2 2   3 2 2 2 2 2
Pit: 9 7 7 7 - 7   5 4 3 3 4 3   2 2 2 2 2 2   2 3 2 2 2 2
Was: 7 7 9 7 7 -   3 4 4 3 4 3   3 3 2 2 2 2   2 2 2 2 2 2
Bos: 4 4 3 4 5 3   - 7 7 9 7 7   2 2 2 2 2 2   2 2 2 2 2 2
Buf: 4 3 4 3 4 4   7 - 9 7 7 7   2 2 2 2 2 2   2 2 2 2 3 2
Har: 4 4 3 3 3 4   7 9 - 7 7 7   2 2 2 3 2 2   2 2 2 2 2 3
Mon: 3 4 4 4 3 3   9 7 7 - 7 7   2 2 2 2 2 2   2 2 3 3 2 2
Ott: 4 3 3 3 4 4   7 7 7 7 - 9   2 2 2 2 2 3   2 2 2 2 2 3
Que: 4 3 4 4 3 3   7 7 7 7 9 -   2 2 2 2 3 3   2 2 2 2 2 2
Chi: 2 2 2 2 2 3   2 2 2 2 2 2   - 9 7 7 7 7   3 4 5 3 4 3
Det: 2 2 2 3 2 3   2 2 2 2 2 2   9 - 7 7 7 7   4 3 4 4 3 3
Min: 2 2 2 2 2 2   2 2 2 2 2 2   7 7 - 9 7 7   4 4 3 3 5 4
StL: 2 3 2 2 2 2   2 2 3 2 2 2   7 7 9 - 7 7   4 3 3 3 4 4
TB : 2 2 3 2 2 2   2 2 2 2 2 3   7 7 7 7 - 9   3 4 3 4 3 4
Tor: 2 2 2 2 2 2   2 2 2 2 3 3   7 7 7 7 9 -   4 3 4 4 3 3
Cal: 2 2 2 3 2 2   2 2 2 2 2 2   3 4 4 4 3 4   - 7 7 9 7 7
Edm: 2 3 2 2 3 2   2 2 2 2 2 2   4 3 4 3 4 3   7 - 7 7 7 9
LA : 2 2 2 2 2 2   2 2 2 3 2 2   5 4 3 3 3 4   7 7 - 7 9 7
SJ : 2 2 3 2 2 2   2 2 2 3 2 2   3 4 3 3 4 4   9 7 7 - 7 7
Van: 2 2 2 2 2 2   2 3 2 2 2 2   4 3 5 4 3 3   7 7 9 7 - 7
Win: 2 2 2 2 2 2   2 2 3 2 3 2   3 3 4 4 4 3   7 9 7 7 7 -
Valerie Hammerl <hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu> has posted this year's version
of nhl.c, a schedule program for NHL games.  For example, users can find
out the games played on a certain date or find out the next ten games
played by team x. A copy can be obtained by e-mailing
<hammerl@acsu.buffalo.edu>
Following is the neutral site schedule:
Tue 10/13:  Calgary vs. Minnesota @ Saskatoon
Tue 10/20:  Ottawa vs. Toronto @ Hamilton
Tue 11/03:  Chicago vs. Washington @ Indianapolis
Tue 11/17:  Toronto vs. Quebec @ Hamilton
Wed 11/18:  Buffalo vs. New Jersey @ Hamilton
Tue 12/01:  Los Angeles vs. Chicago @ Milwaukee
Tue 12/08:  Montreal vs. Los Angeles @ Phoenix
Wed 12/09:  Tampa Bay vs. New York Rangers @ Miami
Sun 12/13:  Edmonton vs. New York Islanders @ Oklahoma City
Tue 12/15:  New York Islanders vs. St. Louis @ Dallas
Mon 01/04:  San Jose vs. Montreal @ Sacramento
Mon 01/18:  Hartford vs. Winnipeg @ Saskatoon
Mon 02/08:  Boston vs. Pittsburgh @ Atlanta
Mon 02/08:  St. Louis vs. Hartford @ Peoria
Tue 02/16:  Philadelphia vs. Calgary @ Cincinnati
Sat 02/20:  Quebec vs. Tampa Bay @ Halifax
Mon 02/22:  New York Rangers vs. San Jose @ Sacramento
Mon 02/22:  Detroit vs. Philadelphia @ Cleveland
Tue 02/23:  Winnipeg vs. Ottawa @ Saskatoon
Mon 03/01:  Vancouver vs. Buffalo @ Hamilton
Thu 03/11:  Minnesota vs. Vancouver @ Saskatoon
Tue 03/16:  Washington vs. Detroit @ Milwaukee
Tue 03/16:  New Jersey vs. Boston @ Providence  *
Sun 03/21:  Pittsburgh vs. Edmonton @ Cleveland
* Location subject to change
NHL Playoff Schedule:
Wales Conference Division Semifinals: April 18, 20, 22, 24, 26*, 28*, 30*
Campbell Conference Division Semifinals: April 19, 21, 23, 25, 27*, 29*, May 1*
Wales Conference Division Finals: May 2, 4, 6, 8, 10*, 12*, 14*
Campbell Conference Division Finals: May 3, 5, 7, 9, 11*, 13*, 15*
Wales Conference Final: May 16, 18, 20, 22, 24*, 26*, 28*
Campbell Conference Final: May 17, 19, 21, 23, 25*, 27*, 29*
Stanley Cup Final: June 1, 3, 5, 7, 9*, 11*, 14*
* - if neccessary
-----
- News & Scores
SPIKE (bryan.k.strouse) <bks@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> posts weekday news and
box scores (Sunday through Thursday). John P. Curcio
<jpc@philabs.philips.com> posts weekend news and box scores. Both maintain
e-mail lists for faster delivery.
Net contacts post team news as they see/hear/read it.
-----
- Notable team news (transactions and announcements)
Note that this information is culled from press releases and posts.  It
is updated each month and only information currently under discussion or
of continuing importance or interest will be listed for more than two
postings.
Boston Bruins
Boston legislators and the developers proposing a new Boston Garden
finally agreed to a deal that puts the 19,000-seat, $160 million project
back on track to be finished in September 1995.
Right wing Daniel Marois will be sidelined indefinitely following
surgery to repair a herniated disc in his back.
**
Sent defenseman Glen Murray to Providence of the American Hockey League.
Buffalo Sabres
1-800-333-PUCK (1-800-333-7825)
Acquired left winger Bob Errey from Pittsburgh for defenseman Mike
Ramsey.
**
Veteran Buffalo Sabres broadcaster Ted Darling will be inducted into the
club's Hall of Fame Sunday, April 11.  Darling, who joined the expansion
Sabres in 1970, was the team's play-by-play announcer on both television
and radio until illness forced him out of the booth during last season.
**
Recalled forwards Viktor Gordiouk and Doug MacDonald from Rochester of
American Hockey League.
Calgary Flames
Acquired veteran right wing Greg Paslawski from Philadelphia for future
considerations.
**
Recalled center Todd Harkins and left winger Tomas Forslund from Salt
Lake City of International Hockey League.
Chicago Blackhawks
The $175 million, privately financed United Center, scheduled to
open in August 1994, will be home to the NBA's Chicago Bulls and NHL's
Chicago Blackhawks. The stadium is owned by entities controlled by the two
teams. The owners apparently still have not made a decision on whether the
old Chicago Stadium will be razed for parking space once the new facility,
located directly across the street, opens.
Suspended defenseman Craig Muni indefinitely for failing to report
following a trade with Edmonton.
Detroit Red Wings
Acquired defenseman Steve Konroyd from Hartford for a sixth-round draft
pick.
Annnounced the signing of right wing Joe Frederick, their 13th pick in
the 1989 National Hockey League entry draft.
**
Two contrite hockey fans have returned the stolen Michigan Sports Hall
of Fame plaque honoring Detroit Red Wing great Gordie Howe. The bronze
plaque was stolen more than four years ago from Cobo Hall in Detroit, site
of the Michigan Hall of Fame.
Edmonton Oilers
Sent forward Esa Tikkanen to the New York Rangers for center Doug
Weight.
Traded defenseman Craig Muni to Chicago for forward Mike Hudson.
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said the Edmonton Oilers' lease with
Northlands Coliseum must be improved if the team is to survive in the
city. Edmonton Northlands is a non-profit agency set up by the city to
administer exhibition facilities including the Coliseum.  Oilers owner
Peter Pocklington calls his lease with Northlands horrendous and has
threatened to move the team if he doesn't get a better deal. He makes no
money from parking, concessions or building advertising. The 17,313-seat
Coliseum also has few of the lucrative private boxes that produce
significant revenues for other owners.
Announced center Kevin Todd will not need surgery but will miss the
remainder of the season with a separated shoulder.
Hartford Whalers
Sent defenseman Steve Konroyd to Detroit for a sixth-round draft pick.
Acquired left winger Robert Kron and a third-round draft pick from
Vancouver for left winger Murray Craven and a fifth-round draft pick.
**
The state of Connecticut will begin negotiations to buy the Civic Center
from the city in an effort to keep the financially struggling Hartford
Whalers franchise in the city.
Los Angeles Kings
Sent center John McIntyre to the New York Rangers for defenseman Mark
Hardy and Ottawa's fifth-round 1993 draft pick.
Minnesota North Stars
1-800-800-0435 if calling from the U.S.
1-800-800-0458 if calling from Canada
The Dallas City Council has approved an agreement with the Minnesota
North Stars that will bring the NHL club to Reunion Arena next season.
Defenseman Mark Tinordi, captain of the North Stars, will be sidelined
the rest of the season, including any postseason games the North Stars
might play, because of a broken collarbone.
Acquired defenseman Mark Osiecki from Winnipeg for ninth- and 10th-round
draft picks in 1993.
Added defenseman Travis Richards from the University of Minnesota.
A former employee filed a sexual harassment suit against Minnesota North
Star owner Norman Green. Karen (Kari) Dziedzic, Green's former executive
assistant, claims Green often instructed her to wear cosmetics, described
her outfits as "very hot" and "very sexy," once slapped her hand as she
was about to eat and humiliated her by grabbing her hand and rubbing it
through a client's hair.
The Minnesota North Stars, who will move to Dallas after this season,
announced that nearly 11,000 season ticket reservations have been made for
their new home at Reunion Arena, which has a capacity of 16,800.
The Met Center commission has told the Minnesota North Stars that it
wants the club out - with its keys returned - at midnight after the last
home game.  The club is moving to Dallas for next season.  The club must
pay unpaid interest of $4,492.80 on the team's late rent payment for 1992,
which was made earlier this month, and has been instructed not to take
property such as the scoreboard and Zamboni ice-surfacing machine.
**
Derian Hatcher's game-misconduct penalty was rescinded by the NHL,
allowing the Minnesota defenseman to play in the North Stars' last two
regular-season games.  Hatcher was given the penalty during a fight at the
end of a loss at St. Louis on Sunday, April 11.  But the league didn't
rescind the game-misconduct penalty Shane Churla received.  The Stars
recalled center Cal McGowan from their top minor league club in Kalamazoo,
Mich., to replace Churla.
Montreal Canadiens
Acquired defenseman Rob Ramage from Tampa Bay for minor league
defensemen Eric Charron and Alain Cote and future considerations.
New Jersey Devils
**
Bernie Nicholls publicly apologized for his criticism of referee Denis
Morel after the Devils' 5-2 loss to the Buffalo Sabres.  Nicholls was
ejected by Morel for being the third man in on a fight late in the second
period of that game and afterward Nicholls called Morel "a homer" and "an
embarrassment to the referee's association."
New York Islanders
Traded right wing Daniel Marois to Boston for a conditional draft
choice.
New York Rangers
Obtained forward Esa Tikkanen from Edmonton for center Doug Weight.
Acquired left winger Mike Hartman from Tampa Bay
Acquired center John McIntyre from Los Angeles for defenseman Mark Hardy
and Ottawa's fifth-round 1993 draft pick.
Defenseman Brian Leetch will undergo additional surgery on the right
ankle he broke in a non-skating fall and is not expected to play again
this season. Leetch suffered the broken ankle March 19 following a victory
over San Jose. The team said he slipped on an icy patch of pavement as he
was getting out of a taxi cab in front of his apartment.
**
Announced that defenseman James Patrick will require surgery on a
herniated disc in his back and will not play again this season.
**
Returned goaltender Corey Hirsch to Binghamton of the American Hockey
League.
Ottawa Senators
The Ottawa Senators received the go-ahead to build the 18,500-seat
Palladium on the proposed location in nearby Kanata, Ont.  The projected
cost is C$150 million. Construction will be postponed until the 1995-96
season, one year behind schedule.
The Ottawa Senators lost their 37th consecutive NHL road game to tie the
1974-75 Washington Capitals for most road losses in a row.
**
Assigned left wing Martin St. Amour to New Haven of the American Hockey
League.
Philadelphia Flyers
The opening date of Spectrum II has been pushed back to fall 1995.
Formal groundbreaking has been postponed indefinitely.
Traded veteran right wing Greg Paslawski to the Calgary Flames for
future considerations.
Pittsburgh Penguins
Traded left winger Bob Errey to Buffalo for defenseman Mike Ramsey.
Reacquired defenseman Peter Taglianetti from Tampa Bay Lightning for a
third-round 1993 draft choice.
**
Revolutionary Comics of San Diego agreed to destroy all available copies
of a Mario Lemieux comic book in a settlement with the Pittsburgh Penguins
over a trademark infringement lawsuit.  The Penguins sued in February
charging that the "Sport Stars Mario Lemieux" comic infringed on the
team's logo and uniform, which are registered trademarks.
Quebec Nordiques
1-800-463-3333
St. Louis Blues
St. Louis Blues center Ron Sutter will miss the rest of the season as a
result of separating his right shoulder.
San Jose Sharks
The San Jose Sharks announced that ticket prices will increase by about
30% for the 1993-94 season when they move from the Cow Palace into a new
$155-million arena in San Jose.
**
Recalled defenseman Tom Pederson from Kansas City of the International